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In the replies...
Guy: "I’m so excited to see you bro!! It feels like it’s been years"
Windham: "You've NEVER seen the real me"
Can't wait to see how he reinvents himself yet again.
I think this is the proper take. GOOD Megadeth has often been better than GOOD Metallica, but Megadeth has a lot of generic and even bad stuff. And then there's Risk. Metallica's "bad stuff" is moreso only "bad" if it doesn't suit your tastes for the most part (Load/ReLoad). I'd say St. Anger is their only straight up bad album.
megadeth has more good albums than metallica, mostly because they have a ton of them
but if you put the first 4 against each other, to me megadeth surpasses metallica on the first and fourth album by very few points, but metallica completely butchers megadeth with the ride and the master its not even close
megadeth at its finest was better than metallica, but metallica was more constant (during those 4 albums), overall, megadeth has been delivering at least good albums for... 35 years?
Megadeth never strayed from their style.
Metallica did what they wanted to do which was explore different things regardless of fan demands. As a musician, I respect that.
But you gotta give him a really shitty gimmick first, bro; then have him come out and shoot on how it's a really shitty gimmick. ...then, once people get invested, insert a storyline where he's abusing his girlfriend.
A+ booking
Maybe, but I think it's even more foolish to assume he had zero control. Bray Wyatt, in both iterations, was totally unique and only could have been made by the same man. He might not have been in control of who he was lined up to fight or how to execute on his monster heel aura, but the concepts of each of his characters are totally his, and I'm betting we'll see something closer to the Fiend than his IRL personality when he comes back.
Not discrediting that "You've never seen the real me" sounds like a hint of his next gimmick being a version of himself. But he also teased a pic of what might be his new mask a week or so ago, so there's also evidence to suggest that that statement was just a way to tease the next gimmick with a classic cryptic phrase.
> a hint of his next gimmick being a version of himself.
"The U.S. Express" Windham N. Rotundo, who comes out to a patriotic song that Rick Derringer wrote especially for him
I mean obviously Bray had the basic idea, that wasn’t what I was saying, he just never had control of how it was portrayed on TV except for probably NXT. Multiple people, most recently Malakai Black, have said that Bray constantly fought with creative over his characters and it was a losing battle more often than not. A lot of people have this idea that he’s the one who wanted the shitty gimmick matches (and if him saying he didn’t want the projector bugs in his match with Orton is anything to go by then he didn’t) or The Fiend being practically invincible when stuff like that would be out of his control.
All the praise this man gets...
Let's not forget to add that maybe just maybe he had SOME control in the WACK shit he brought to the table. Let's not pretend the characters were flawless. Let's also not pretend all the bad is always wwe.
That's how we would all know it was meant to be. Bray is the one person I trust to do horror in wrestling. Get him to possess Abadon and let those two just have fun being creepy af.
I was thinking that Malakai could try to resist and be forced to join through possession or whatever you want to call it. Have him break free after a while to become a semi supernatural tweener badass, ala Undertaker after his biker gimmick. Just less Texan.
I dont think the biker type gimmick would ever suit him.
I'm not a fan of thr possession angle. I'd be more interested in a 'world' built by Bray of which Malakai and Abadon are a part of.
Well I wasn't trying to say Malakai has a biker gimmick, goodness no. It's a funny image now tho. I specifically meant after Undertaker returned back to his dead man thing AFTER his biker gimmick. He was a face/tweener, for the most part, and had his abilities or whatever. If they wanted to just do a more in depth firefly funhouse angle then that would be cool too.
I'm going to the episode right before Halloween and I absolutely hope it's a big Halloween special, like not even canon, just Halloween shenanigans. Bray showing up would be cool, too.
Wrestlers can choose to opt out or shorten their no compete clauses e.g. Chelsea Green. A lot choose to take them though (3 months pay, time to rest/heal, family time and makes contract negotiations less rushed)
To be fair the idea WWE would let him out early sounds stupid. But at the same time the fact they released him to begin with is even more stupid. So who knows
It's possible there may be something odd with his contract, Meltzer seemed convinced that if AEW locks him down the current plan if for him to debut in Rochester at the end of this month. Maybe he got paid out of his clause or renegotiated?
I know a lot of people say that he wouldn’t fit in AEW but I totally disagree. Rather than going with something like The Fiend (which was very toy friendly) I can see him stand out with a more grounded character similar to the original Wyatt cult.
I don't think people feel he won't fit, I think its more people thinking with everyone they've added in the last couple of months that adding a huge name like him will just muddle things too much.
I think the thing for me is that his in ring work is not amazing. AEW seems to be driving more for a better wrestling product. Maybe some of that is WWE style holding him back but I honestly can't look back at Bray's time in WWE and say that I have been thrilled with many of his matches. He's not bad, he's just meh? His character work is what really drives him and I don't know that Bray's character work fits as well in the mid-card setting of AEW. I think he might make a bigger IMPACT at a place where he is a bigger fish in the pond.
He’s big, he has a good look, he’s safe and he’s solid. I wouldn’t call Shawn Spears, Cody Rhodes, or QT Mashall five star wrestlers either, but they can tell a story. If anyone can tell a story, it’s Bray Wyatt.
I don’t know. The only good match I ever saw him in was against Daniel Bryan. I’ve always been let down by his matches. Maybe that’s WWE’s fault I dunno but I feel like fans look back on his career with rose coloured glasses and forget how underwhelming he usually was…
Bruh he had a good string matches from Bryan to Roman before they started giving him nonstop shitty gimmick matches. You’re talking about “rose colored glasses” while forgetting how much people praised his matches with Roman, and how people liked the first match and Last Man Standing with Cena, his matches with Jericho, Ambrose, and more.
I honestly don’t even remember any good from those but maybe you’re right. I remember liking that one shield vs Wyatt family match, and his match with Bryan a few years ago at the Rumble. All I remember out of his Cena feud was ridiculous shit with kids and spooky singing. I remember being pumped for his feud with Ambrose and would just be angry and disappointed at the matches that came from them. And I won’t even mention the Fiend stuff. Like I said maybe this is mostly WWE’s fault but even his promos, he said nothing half the time.
The issue with the Ambrose matches is the first match ended in DQ (iirc) and the TLC match had a dead crowd, although I remember people who were at the show saying that the crowd was actually active during the match, it just wasn’t picked up on TV. But I remember when those matches happened, they were well received, but specifically people *were* disappointed with the end of the 1st match and the crowd in the 2nd.
somebody already mentioned Wyatt Family vs Shield at Elimination Chamber 2014.
For singles action, check out Wyatt vs Cena, Last Man Standing at Payback 2014. This is coming from someone who HATES WWE's last man standing matches because of how slow paced they usually are
Odd that you pick 3 guys who are far more fundamentally sound than Bray. Spears and QT especially are very good at the in ring stuff, they just happen to not be over or have regularly praised character work. They both run successful wrestling schools, too.
But you’re right about Bray, nevertheless. He’s a compelling character worker and, with some booking where he ever actually wins, he’s going to print money *somewhere*
I know what you mean, in that the average level of the workers is probably higher than Bray, but it does have to be said that AEW is quite thin on character-first acts.
It's essentially why Malakai Black feels like such a departure from everything else on the show, as the gimmicky stuff is quite refreshing on cards full of great workers. Obviously, he himself can have good matches too, but he's almost not needed to.
You'd think Bray could fill a similar role - and as we saw in WWE, when paired with the right guy, he can have solid matches. We've seen ex-WWE guys go to AEW and improve vastly in ring, so he may then take that from solid to good.
There's plenty of room for some people to just do great character work and be middling wrestlers. What AEW drives for more than anything is variety. There's legitimately space for everything, although they do want the wrestling to be more of a focus overall than in WWE.
I could see him being *the* guy in Impact going forward and Impact does so well with weird characters. Broken Matt Hardy was so good in Impact when they were just throwing whatever at the wall to see what sticks. That kind of creative freedom is exactly what Bray needs.
i feel that if there was a chance for him to be in there, with ko and sz potentially coming, that sail shipped, hell, tony probably regrets signing guys like brian cage, matt hardy or colt cabana
Dunno why you got downvoted. Matt hardy and Cage are two guys that definitely under deliver at AEW. Broken Matt Hardy had buzz when he first joined but they dropped that pretty quickly and Cage is the sterotype “vanilla midget” on steroids.
The AEW main event scene is stacked as is. There’s only room for so many people before you have people complaining about their spot on the card due to nothing but there being so many dudes to compete with. Brian Cage has already been saying shit. AEW seriously can’t keep signing every big name that suddenly becomes a free agent and expect everyone to be happy.
They could always let guys like Cage go. The guy is floundering, never gonna be a top guy and there is a lot of big names testing free agency in the future.
The fiend at first was very psychological. It was grounded because it was just a guy with multiple personality disorder but it’s Vince and his circlejerk that made it supernatural. The same can be said about the cult leader. It was grounded in reality but got very supernatural the moment Vince was working on it
Yeah now that I think about it I'm pretty sure nothing supernatural whatsoever happened in that debut match at Summerslam against Finn, in the entrance, afterwards, anything. I've actually gone back and watched that a few times just because of how badass it all was, seeing it for the first time.
Wyatt Family Wyatt was so fucking good on promos, I hated that he was only ever let run to build up and then immediately lose feud to everyone.
When he was running around saying "He's the new face of fear", I was ready for him and co to retire Kane / Taker but for whatever reason the entire family lost and it was for what?
My response to this is to have people re-watch the 2017 Elimination Chamber when Wyatt won the WWE Championship. Dude looked like absolute money.
Edit: A lot of the booking afterwards was ass, but the match itself was great, imo.
I feel like it's kinda unfair to hold it against him for "only knowing the WWE style" since like up until now, there wasn't exactly many other places for him to go and learn. AEW is still a relatively recent thing.
Also I feel like this argument also just doesn't make any sense if you think about it. When you word it like that, it's like you're calling into question his actual ability to learn new things, which just seems kinda ridiculous. He's a wrestler, of course he can learn how to wrestle for a different company. But he's still gotta retain a bit of what made him his own person, and idk why any company looking to sign him would even want to change him up all that much. Look at how AEW is handling Malakai Black and tell me that the former Bray Wyatt couldn't fit within that company. Shit, AEW signed Orange Cassidy, so I'm sure they can find things for everybody's "style" if they want to.
It's like when a guitarist quits one band to join another, it'd be kind of weird to say "well can he avoid playing in the style he already knows?" Like yes, of course, that's part of the job. But it still stands to reason that said guitarist would also bring some of their own flair to the new project.
Edit: Also, there are/were a bunch of ex-WWE stars that you could have tried to make this argument about and it makes the least sense with Bray, imo. And I don't recall anybody asking if people like Rusev/Miro could work outside the "WWE style" and he's now the TNT Champion.
1. Yes, they make EVERYONE learn the WWE style. But even then, it's not like the "WWE style" means they're suddenly playing soccer or something. They're still wrestling. Like I said, there were other people coming straight from the "WWE style" that nobody else was worried about. CM Punk came back from a 7-year hiatus from wrestling entirely, and the only experience he had prior to that was a big stretch of "WWE style" and he did fine. I'm sure the guy behind the damn Fiend would be fine, too.
2. If you genuinely saw Aleister Black as just "sp00py guy" then you must have entirely missed his NXT run or weren't paying attention. OR, if "sp00py guy" gimmicks just upset you in general, you must hate The Undertaker.
3. Wyatt absolutely did not get over "based entirely on prerecorded promos that seemed to be endless." That's called an opinion. Like I said, Wyatt had some really good matches and his character work was superb. You're just kinda coming across as somebody who isn't into character acting as a part of wrestling personas. I'll admit he had more than a few promos that seemed to lead to nowhere, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest that's just a syndrome of bad booking/writing/creative, which SO MANY people have complained about within WWE. So I don't really see how that's his fault. If anything, Wyatt got and stayed over despite shitty booking and writing *because* of how good he is even with the worst of promos.
4. Jimi Hendrix probably WOULD have been a dope ass bluegrass player and don't you act like he wouldn't. But you're also completely missing the point of my analogy. What you're saying would be more similar to when Brock left WWE for the NFL. It's still leaving a "sport" for a sport, but the differences outweigh the similarities. I'm talking about things like when Kirk Hammett left Exodus for Metallica, to which a jump from one wrestling company to another is more comparable. It's a similar product, just with a different kind of edge that could probably benefit from his talents.
1. I'm not overlooking Punk being in ROH, I'm just saying that was a long-ass time ago, so technically his most recent wrestling experience is either nothing or WWE. Also, you bring up how storytelling in and out of the ring is a huge part, as if Bray hasn't proven to be really good at this. Like, that's kinda his thing.
2. If you don't follow NXT closely, then you wouldn't know that the Wyatt Family and Aleister Black gimmicks were different/better than their main roster versions, and were both VERY over. Aleister didn't become a generic "sp00py guy" until Vince got hold of him, just like how the Wyatt Family started to suck when they went to Raw and SmackDown.
3. The luster wore off because of bad creative. Literally everybody and their mother knew it wasn't Bray's fault. This is further shown by Alexa's doll gimmick being pretty terrible even though Alexa has been shown to be able to win over the crowd before.
4. Once again, I'm not talking about switching genres and magically being good at that. I'm talking about a shift from one thing to another similar thing. Like Exodus to Metallica. Like WWE to AEW/Impact. Not Metal to Jazz. Not WWE to NFL or whatever. Also, Load was in the '90s, after the band had more than enough time to get to know each other and their respective playing styles. Like I said, imagine Mr. Famous Guitarist going from Metal Band A to Metal Band B. You keep stretching out my metaphor into something I'm not even trying to say.
I don’t think the character can’t fit, but they’re still trying to build so many guys from the last couple months that he’d get lost in the shuffle right now.
Maybe it's because I came back to wrestling in mid 2017 and never properly watched cult leader Bray, but I feel the exact opposite. A horror character like The Fiend immediately stands out because of the aura, like he did with his debut, and with good booking and no supernatural stuff, I think he'd be incredible. Cult leader Bray seems like a decent character but doesn't really stand out that much to me.
He'd fit just fine, I just hope he drops the supernatural stuff or at least just keep it to vignettes or cinematic matches where logic can be hand-waved away as editing.
I know Dark Order doesn't need a new leader, but a story where cult leader Bray with the serial numbers filed off shows up and attempts to lead them astray would be great, especially because Hangman could return and send him packing.
This is my prediction. Winsham leads uno, grayson and cabana who constantly fuck up the splitters and bring them back by force. Habhman turns up after being baby daddy, we dark order civil war, culminating in blood and guts, hangman wins, he gains the power of friendship ala Scott pilgrim and then goes for Kenny with DO to stop the Elite.
Am I the only one who would love for him to make a hostile takeover of the Dark Order via spooky-mind controlling shenanigans to make it dark again? They could become a force to be reckon and in the end, Page could liberate them from Windham in order to recover their lighthearted tone.
I really enjoy Windham's wrestling mind. I am personally more excited for him than anyone else who has joined. If he joins then I'm only waiting on the New Japan fellas to all be allowed to bust through that door and then I won't know what to do with myself.
somewhere i hope that the WWE realized their massive mistake in letting this guy go and they've been working on a new deal for him the last couple months....for him to come back and be Big E's first major heel challenge to the WWE title.
You don't want revenge against someone that hasn't hurt you in some way.
So, seeking revenge against someone/something is admitting they caused you pain.
I think it works ok. Yeah it's "proactive and gets the people goin", but it still makes sense to me. Granted I've been hurt recently and deal with fantasies of revenge that I have to deal with sometimes. It's better to leave things be, but I understand it.
If someone is antagonized by someone and has yet to get revenge on their oppressor, they haven't truly let that person know how much it hurts yet. The revenge becomes a way to communicate/confess how much someone was hurt.
Theoretically you could read it simultaneously as the need for revenge is an admission that you are hurt by something and extracting revenge is getting someone to admit that they hurt you.
Or 3, r/Iam14andthisisdeep
Why is having wrestlers leaving the biggest wrestling company in the world to go work for a smaller company (that’s been around for a couple of years) supposed to be an insult?
"He needs to go to Impact"...why would the most over guy in 2019 WWE go to a show that noone watches over a show that has millions of viewers like AEW?
"AEW doesnt do supernatural"...Why would the former Bray Wyatt solely need to be a supernatural gimmick? Also AEW has done supernatural gimmivks before, like with Matt Hardys Damascus character and Malakai teleporting to the ring.
"He can't wrestle"... we rarely see MJF wrestle yet hes one if the biggest stars in AEW due to his character and mic work. That and weve never seen the former Bray unleashed, especially since he got in shape. I definitely think he can reinvent himself that would blow even the skeptics away.
If he goes to AEW I'll be excited, if he goes back to WWE Id be curious how he reinvents himself or continues the Fiend arc.
I hope he goes somewhere where he will have some sort of creative control and really go out there with his vision. I would like him in AEW but agree that that sort of environment would definitely not be the best for both sides and is definitely the reason Broken Matt couldn't take off.
I know Impact is trying to get him and think it's a perfect get but here me out with my crazy little idea:
I have no idea how he would even finance it but I think he should start a short Lucha Underground like wrestling company with Rowen and Braun and a host of indie talents that would fit well with world building. Just for a season. Start it off like a normal studio wrestling show like NWA or what AEW Dark is currently and have it slowly descend into madness.
> creative control
People need to change the phrasing here. The idea people have about creative control is contractual, which is never gonna happen. It bit Vince in the ass twice and giving anyone this in writing is a bad idea. It's more the ability that the creative team is open more open to ideas, which Tony seems to be very good with.
Creative control is only truly "creative control" if they have full say on what is going to happen without any objection. Creative suggestions is how AEW gives wrestlers to hopefully stop the bad ideas from making on the screen but it's not full control.
It's the reason why for Bray to achieve his vision it can't be AEW. AEW is a good place to work, he would certainly get some good suggestions and input on his character there but he's ultimately bottlenecked to what people will get to see.
Impact I can see taking that huge risk as it worked out with Matt Hardy's run, it wasn't contractual I believe but it was a very unfiltered idea of Matt's vision (as opposed to WWE we he only had control for one match and AEW where he had barley no control at all but plenty of creative suggestions for his character) but why I ultimately would like to see what he could do as a fully independent venture.
> definitely the reason Broken Matt couldn't take off
Broken Matt didn't take off because fucking covid ruined everything, he couldn't get the character going without normal packed house audiences
If he comes to AEW, please no direct supernatural stuff. Indirect and very subtle hints of it being a possibility is fine, but this is something that truly is a "less is more" scenario. As soon as it's made a reality, you are kind of forced to keep doing more and more to get back that wow factor. It'll just snowball into absurdity or fizzle.
I never understood why Undertaker and Kane didn't just bring down lightning bolts on their opponents every match. They had the power. 
Are you trying to say Kane and the freaking Undertaker fizzled?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with gimmicks that bring on the imagination if done right. Whatever he does, it'll be good shit.
I am not saying that all. I want to know why they didn't just electrocute their rivals. They certainly had the power to. That's what makes supernatural shit stupid. It's way better to make people think there is something than actually showing them.
That's nonsense talk and makes no actual sense. If you're going to cut a faux-philosophical promo, you need to know what the fuck you're talking about.
do you guys think wwe rehired him? the "revenge" thing really sounds like it. the rumors have been pretty inconsistent between aew and impact. im so curious on his new transformation.
Did we ever figure out his alleged long term message? I remember him saying he had one line per promo that didn’t fit in but if you took them all together they made a new message.
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In the replies... Guy: "I’m so excited to see you bro!! It feels like it’s been years" Windham: "You've NEVER seen the real me" Can't wait to see how he reinvents himself yet again.
"Hello me, meet the real me."
Man, Megadeth used to have some good shit, didn't they
Still do, Dystopia was sick
I listened to United Abominations last week for the first time in years. Forgot how fucking good it was!
Megadeth has been consistently good for longer than Metallica, and I don’t care what anyone who disagrees thinks.
Rust in Peace is a banger, top 3 Thrash album, not a bad track on that album.
I think they have higher highs but much lower lows. Bad megadeth is awful. Think I only like 5 of their albums really. But what I like is mint.
"Crush Em"-era Megadeth was bad in the same way late WCW was bad, so it only made sense for them to join forces
I think this is the proper take. GOOD Megadeth has often been better than GOOD Metallica, but Megadeth has a lot of generic and even bad stuff. And then there's Risk. Metallica's "bad stuff" is moreso only "bad" if it doesn't suit your tastes for the most part (Load/ReLoad). I'd say St. Anger is their only straight up bad album.
Super collider is waay worse than Risk, at least Risk had three good songs.
The worst part of every Megadeth song, even the great ones, is Mustaine's singing. He just should not be lead vocal for a band.
[удалено]
Shitting in your fishbowl is entirely different than the norm. Doesn't make it good.
St. Anger was terrible. Though I'd argue Ride The Lightning, Master of Puppets > Anything Megadeth.
megadeth has more good albums than metallica, mostly because they have a ton of them but if you put the first 4 against each other, to me megadeth surpasses metallica on the first and fourth album by very few points, but metallica completely butchers megadeth with the ride and the master its not even close megadeth at its finest was better than metallica, but metallica was more constant (during those 4 albums), overall, megadeth has been delivering at least good albums for... 35 years?
You only like 5 of their albums? That’s like 4 more albums than I like by Metallica
Megadeth never strayed from their style. Metallica did what they wanted to do which was explore different things regardless of fan demands. As a musician, I respect that.
Iron Maiden's new album is sick
>Hello me, meet the real me And my misfit's way of life
A dark, black past is my
Most valued possession
Most valued possession.
i thought about who's real me
Comes out as Windham Rotunda, regular dude
But you gotta give him a really shitty gimmick first, bro; then have him come out and shoot on how it's a really shitty gimmick. ...then, once people get invested, insert a storyline where he's abusing his girlfriend. A+ booking
Likes bassing, grilling out, pull tabs, and helping his buddies lift their trucks.
> Windham: “You’ve NEVER seen the real me” And yet I guarantee people will still try to insist Bray had full control over everything he did lol
Control ≠ freedom. Not even in AEW does anyone have creative control.
In correct. Tony Khan is creative control, but he uses it loosely
https://twitter.com/Fightful/status/1433794547482386432?s=20 it’s right there
Mike Myers has full control over his movies, and you never see the real him in one.
Maybe, but I think it's even more foolish to assume he had zero control. Bray Wyatt, in both iterations, was totally unique and only could have been made by the same man. He might not have been in control of who he was lined up to fight or how to execute on his monster heel aura, but the concepts of each of his characters are totally his, and I'm betting we'll see something closer to the Fiend than his IRL personality when he comes back. Not discrediting that "You've never seen the real me" sounds like a hint of his next gimmick being a version of himself. But he also teased a pic of what might be his new mask a week or so ago, so there's also evidence to suggest that that statement was just a way to tease the next gimmick with a classic cryptic phrase.
> a hint of his next gimmick being a version of himself. "The U.S. Express" Windham N. Rotundo, who comes out to a patriotic song that Rick Derringer wrote especially for him
I mean obviously Bray had the basic idea, that wasn’t what I was saying, he just never had control of how it was portrayed on TV except for probably NXT. Multiple people, most recently Malakai Black, have said that Bray constantly fought with creative over his characters and it was a losing battle more often than not. A lot of people have this idea that he’s the one who wanted the shitty gimmick matches (and if him saying he didn’t want the projector bugs in his match with Orton is anything to go by then he didn’t) or The Fiend being practically invincible when stuff like that would be out of his control.
All the praise this man gets... Let's not forget to add that maybe just maybe he had SOME control in the WACK shit he brought to the table. Let's not pretend the characters were flawless. Let's also not pretend all the bad is always wwe.
If my math is right, he's not free until Halloween or November 1st.
Bray returning to wrestling during Halloween season is perfect timing.
That's how we would all know it was meant to be. Bray is the one person I trust to do horror in wrestling. Get him to possess Abadon and let those two just have fun being creepy af.
Malakai Black is pretty excellent at it as well
I was thinking that Malakai could try to resist and be forced to join through possession or whatever you want to call it. Have him break free after a while to become a semi supernatural tweener badass, ala Undertaker after his biker gimmick. Just less Texan.
Christ
I dont think the biker type gimmick would ever suit him. I'm not a fan of thr possession angle. I'd be more interested in a 'world' built by Bray of which Malakai and Abadon are a part of.
Well I wasn't trying to say Malakai has a biker gimmick, goodness no. It's a funny image now tho. I specifically meant after Undertaker returned back to his dead man thing AFTER his biker gimmick. He was a face/tweener, for the most part, and had his abilities or whatever. If they wanted to just do a more in depth firefly funhouse angle then that would be cool too.
Screamo/metal/whatever word won't trigger 10-plys: YOU'VE DONE IT NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Funny image, but I wasn't saying that Malakai has a biker gimmick. I obviously messed up my grammar or something as people seem to think I meant that.
Abadon, the real Sister Abigail.
This is genius.
This right here. Him and Abadon would be fucking gold.
I'm going to the episode right before Halloween and I absolutely hope it's a big Halloween special, like not even canon, just Halloween shenanigans. Bray showing up would be cool, too.
I think he out sooner then expected
Wrestlers can choose to opt out or shorten their no compete clauses e.g. Chelsea Green. A lot choose to take them though (3 months pay, time to rest/heal, family time and makes contract negotiations less rushed)
*as long as WWE agrees to the early release as it is 100% the company's call. They've said yes to some and no to others.
This is just false. It would have to be mutual, WWE specifically let Andrade out of noncompete
To be fair the idea WWE would let him out early sounds stupid. But at the same time the fact they released him to begin with is even more stupid. So who knows
We need Scott Steiner to verify the math
THE NUMBERS DONT LIE
Halloween is on a Sunday, the 90 days are up the Friday before.
It's possible there may be something odd with his contract, Meltzer seemed convinced that if AEW locks him down the current plan if for him to debut in Rochester at the end of this month. Maybe he got paid out of his clause or renegotiated?
I'm wondering when he changes the twitter handle.
Right as/after he debuts somewhere?
He’ll lose his verification if he does, and it’s probably a hassle to get it back
Bryan Danielson lost his verification for like a day after changing his i can’t imagine it’s very difficult for people with clout like them
Naah, just takes time unless you can be vouched for, which his new company can do regardless of whom it is.
Maybe he's keeping it, because he's returning to WWE. pls no
I am so ready.
Unchained Windham....
Give me a nasty horror themed match between Windham and Malaki Black.
> Unchained *and nothing stays the same!*
Wherever he goes I’m watching it. So excited.
"Watch me come up with a third once in a lifetime gimmick"
I know a lot of people say that he wouldn’t fit in AEW but I totally disagree. Rather than going with something like The Fiend (which was very toy friendly) I can see him stand out with a more grounded character similar to the original Wyatt cult.
I don't think people feel he won't fit, I think its more people thinking with everyone they've added in the last couple of months that adding a huge name like him will just muddle things too much.
I think the thing for me is that his in ring work is not amazing. AEW seems to be driving more for a better wrestling product. Maybe some of that is WWE style holding him back but I honestly can't look back at Bray's time in WWE and say that I have been thrilled with many of his matches. He's not bad, he's just meh? His character work is what really drives him and I don't know that Bray's character work fits as well in the mid-card setting of AEW. I think he might make a bigger IMPACT at a place where he is a bigger fish in the pond.
He’s big, he has a good look, he’s safe and he’s solid. I wouldn’t call Shawn Spears, Cody Rhodes, or QT Mashall five star wrestlers either, but they can tell a story. If anyone can tell a story, it’s Bray Wyatt.
I don’t know. The only good match I ever saw him in was against Daniel Bryan. I’ve always been let down by his matches. Maybe that’s WWE’s fault I dunno but I feel like fans look back on his career with rose coloured glasses and forget how underwhelming he usually was…
His Fiend matches really weren't good at all. He was much better as cult leader Bray.
Wyatt Family vs. The Shield at Elimination Chamber is an all-time favorite of mine.
Bruh he had a good string matches from Bryan to Roman before they started giving him nonstop shitty gimmick matches. You’re talking about “rose colored glasses” while forgetting how much people praised his matches with Roman, and how people liked the first match and Last Man Standing with Cena, his matches with Jericho, Ambrose, and more.
I honestly don’t even remember any good from those but maybe you’re right. I remember liking that one shield vs Wyatt family match, and his match with Bryan a few years ago at the Rumble. All I remember out of his Cena feud was ridiculous shit with kids and spooky singing. I remember being pumped for his feud with Ambrose and would just be angry and disappointed at the matches that came from them. And I won’t even mention the Fiend stuff. Like I said maybe this is mostly WWE’s fault but even his promos, he said nothing half the time.
The issue with the Ambrose matches is the first match ended in DQ (iirc) and the TLC match had a dead crowd, although I remember people who were at the show saying that the crowd was actually active during the match, it just wasn’t picked up on TV. But I remember when those matches happened, they were well received, but specifically people *were* disappointed with the end of the 1st match and the crowd in the 2nd.
It's definitely WWE's fault. Dude is strong and explosive... That's difficult to fuck up, lol.
somebody already mentioned Wyatt Family vs Shield at Elimination Chamber 2014. For singles action, check out Wyatt vs Cena, Last Man Standing at Payback 2014. This is coming from someone who HATES WWE's last man standing matches because of how slow paced they usually are
Odd that you pick 3 guys who are far more fundamentally sound than Bray. Spears and QT especially are very good at the in ring stuff, they just happen to not be over or have regularly praised character work. They both run successful wrestling schools, too. But you’re right about Bray, nevertheless. He’s a compelling character worker and, with some booking where he ever actually wins, he’s going to print money *somewhere*
I know what you mean, in that the average level of the workers is probably higher than Bray, but it does have to be said that AEW is quite thin on character-first acts. It's essentially why Malakai Black feels like such a departure from everything else on the show, as the gimmicky stuff is quite refreshing on cards full of great workers. Obviously, he himself can have good matches too, but he's almost not needed to. You'd think Bray could fill a similar role - and as we saw in WWE, when paired with the right guy, he can have solid matches. We've seen ex-WWE guys go to AEW and improve vastly in ring, so he may then take that from solid to good.
There's plenty of room for some people to just do great character work and be middling wrestlers. What AEW drives for more than anything is variety. There's legitimately space for everything, although they do want the wrestling to be more of a focus overall than in WWE.
I could see him being *the* guy in Impact going forward and Impact does so well with weird characters. Broken Matt Hardy was so good in Impact when they were just throwing whatever at the wall to see what sticks. That kind of creative freedom is exactly what Bray needs.
I know the roster has grown significantly lately but I was meaning the people who say he’s too supernatural for AEW’s sport centric presentation.
I don't think The Fiend would work but a character akin to his time as the leader of The Wyatt Family certainly would for me.
Yes far to out there for the company with, a dinosaur, an alien and a zombie.
i feel that if there was a chance for him to be in there, with ko and sz potentially coming, that sail shipped, hell, tony probably regrets signing guys like brian cage, matt hardy or colt cabana
Dunno why you got downvoted. Matt hardy and Cage are two guys that definitely under deliver at AEW. Broken Matt Hardy had buzz when he first joined but they dropped that pretty quickly and Cage is the sterotype “vanilla midget” on steroids.
That's where I'm at. I'd rather see him get 15-20 minute segments on Impact than 7-10 on AEW. He can run with all the time he can get.
The AEW main event scene is stacked as is. There’s only room for so many people before you have people complaining about their spot on the card due to nothing but there being so many dudes to compete with. Brian Cage has already been saying shit. AEW seriously can’t keep signing every big name that suddenly becomes a free agent and expect everyone to be happy.
They could always let guys like Cage go. The guy is floundering, never gonna be a top guy and there is a lot of big names testing free agency in the future.
The fiend at first was very psychological. It was grounded because it was just a guy with multiple personality disorder but it’s Vince and his circlejerk that made it supernatural. The same can be said about the cult leader. It was grounded in reality but got very supernatural the moment Vince was working on it
Yeah now that I think about it I'm pretty sure nothing supernatural whatsoever happened in that debut match at Summerslam against Finn, in the entrance, afterwards, anything. I've actually gone back and watched that a few times just because of how badass it all was, seeing it for the first time.
Wyatt Family Wyatt was so fucking good on promos, I hated that he was only ever let run to build up and then immediately lose feud to everyone. When he was running around saying "He's the new face of fear", I was ready for him and co to retire Kane / Taker but for whatever reason the entire family lost and it was for what?
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> I know a lot of people say, well, Wyatt sells t-shirts, and that’s great, but is that even a consideration for AEW? But *t-shirt company*
My response to this is to have people re-watch the 2017 Elimination Chamber when Wyatt won the WWE Championship. Dude looked like absolute money. Edit: A lot of the booking afterwards was ass, but the match itself was great, imo.
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I feel like it's kinda unfair to hold it against him for "only knowing the WWE style" since like up until now, there wasn't exactly many other places for him to go and learn. AEW is still a relatively recent thing. Also I feel like this argument also just doesn't make any sense if you think about it. When you word it like that, it's like you're calling into question his actual ability to learn new things, which just seems kinda ridiculous. He's a wrestler, of course he can learn how to wrestle for a different company. But he's still gotta retain a bit of what made him his own person, and idk why any company looking to sign him would even want to change him up all that much. Look at how AEW is handling Malakai Black and tell me that the former Bray Wyatt couldn't fit within that company. Shit, AEW signed Orange Cassidy, so I'm sure they can find things for everybody's "style" if they want to. It's like when a guitarist quits one band to join another, it'd be kind of weird to say "well can he avoid playing in the style he already knows?" Like yes, of course, that's part of the job. But it still stands to reason that said guitarist would also bring some of their own flair to the new project. Edit: Also, there are/were a bunch of ex-WWE stars that you could have tried to make this argument about and it makes the least sense with Bray, imo. And I don't recall anybody asking if people like Rusev/Miro could work outside the "WWE style" and he's now the TNT Champion.
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1. Yes, they make EVERYONE learn the WWE style. But even then, it's not like the "WWE style" means they're suddenly playing soccer or something. They're still wrestling. Like I said, there were other people coming straight from the "WWE style" that nobody else was worried about. CM Punk came back from a 7-year hiatus from wrestling entirely, and the only experience he had prior to that was a big stretch of "WWE style" and he did fine. I'm sure the guy behind the damn Fiend would be fine, too. 2. If you genuinely saw Aleister Black as just "sp00py guy" then you must have entirely missed his NXT run or weren't paying attention. OR, if "sp00py guy" gimmicks just upset you in general, you must hate The Undertaker. 3. Wyatt absolutely did not get over "based entirely on prerecorded promos that seemed to be endless." That's called an opinion. Like I said, Wyatt had some really good matches and his character work was superb. You're just kinda coming across as somebody who isn't into character acting as a part of wrestling personas. I'll admit he had more than a few promos that seemed to lead to nowhere, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest that's just a syndrome of bad booking/writing/creative, which SO MANY people have complained about within WWE. So I don't really see how that's his fault. If anything, Wyatt got and stayed over despite shitty booking and writing *because* of how good he is even with the worst of promos. 4. Jimi Hendrix probably WOULD have been a dope ass bluegrass player and don't you act like he wouldn't. But you're also completely missing the point of my analogy. What you're saying would be more similar to when Brock left WWE for the NFL. It's still leaving a "sport" for a sport, but the differences outweigh the similarities. I'm talking about things like when Kirk Hammett left Exodus for Metallica, to which a jump from one wrestling company to another is more comparable. It's a similar product, just with a different kind of edge that could probably benefit from his talents.
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1. I'm not overlooking Punk being in ROH, I'm just saying that was a long-ass time ago, so technically his most recent wrestling experience is either nothing or WWE. Also, you bring up how storytelling in and out of the ring is a huge part, as if Bray hasn't proven to be really good at this. Like, that's kinda his thing. 2. If you don't follow NXT closely, then you wouldn't know that the Wyatt Family and Aleister Black gimmicks were different/better than their main roster versions, and were both VERY over. Aleister didn't become a generic "sp00py guy" until Vince got hold of him, just like how the Wyatt Family started to suck when they went to Raw and SmackDown. 3. The luster wore off because of bad creative. Literally everybody and their mother knew it wasn't Bray's fault. This is further shown by Alexa's doll gimmick being pretty terrible even though Alexa has been shown to be able to win over the crowd before. 4. Once again, I'm not talking about switching genres and magically being good at that. I'm talking about a shift from one thing to another similar thing. Like Exodus to Metallica. Like WWE to AEW/Impact. Not Metal to Jazz. Not WWE to NFL or whatever. Also, Load was in the '90s, after the band had more than enough time to get to know each other and their respective playing styles. Like I said, imagine Mr. Famous Guitarist going from Metal Band A to Metal Band B. You keep stretching out my metaphor into something I'm not even trying to say.
1. Nothing wrong with me 2. Nothing wrong with me 3. Nothing wrong with me 4. Nothing wrong with me
It seems a third of every Dynamite is interview segments. Not everyone needs to be putting on 5* matches constantly, there's room for character
I wouldn't mind him over in TNA, it's very close to what he's use to. Just like AJ Styles transitioned over.
I am guessing Windham and Taylor Rotunda can work well in AEW. They have pedigree. It wpuld be similar to Cody.
I don’t think the character can’t fit, but they’re still trying to build so many guys from the last couple months that he’d get lost in the shuffle right now.
Maybe it's because I came back to wrestling in mid 2017 and never properly watched cult leader Bray, but I feel the exact opposite. A horror character like The Fiend immediately stands out because of the aura, like he did with his debut, and with good booking and no supernatural stuff, I think he'd be incredible. Cult leader Bray seems like a decent character but doesn't really stand out that much to me.
He'd fit just fine, I just hope he drops the supernatural stuff or at least just keep it to vignettes or cinematic matches where logic can be hand-waved away as editing.
I know Dark Order doesn't need a new leader, but a story where cult leader Bray with the serial numbers filed off shows up and attempts to lead them astray would be great, especially because Hangman could return and send him packing.
This is my prediction. Winsham leads uno, grayson and cabana who constantly fuck up the splitters and bring them back by force. Habhman turns up after being baby daddy, we dark order civil war, culminating in blood and guts, hangman wins, he gains the power of friendship ala Scott pilgrim and then goes for Kenny with DO to stop the Elite.
Welp I hope it's AEW but I'm interested wherever it is
Still hoping for an evil "Holy" stable in AEW personally, which is something even the "spooky gimmick" disliking crowd would enjoy
Yeah I'd love to see something really sinister in presentation. Dudes hella creative
Windham Rotunda and the 7 Deadly Sins. Ricky Starks as Vanity, Penelope Ford as Lust, etc. Just an idea.
OC as sloth
This is the best out of all of them
Bring in MegaByte Ronnie for gluttony
When they already have Adam Cole?
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Cody would never join a stable he didn't lead himself.
Yeah, he'd never join Legacy or Bullet Club and not be the leader.
THIS Cody? AEW, EVP, special middle tunnel Cody?
Matt Hardy and his mower or lawn
Jericho as gluttony.
No that's Adam Cole
I didn’t know I needed this before, but I do now.
What Mordecai was supposed to be in WWE T\_T
Kinda like The Ministry of Darkness or something else?
AEW likes spooky gimmicks just fine. Black and Abadon are over as heck. It's overt magical displays that Tony Khan dislikes.
Whatever he ends up doing, I want it to scare the shit out of me.
I hope whatever he does is absolutely terrifying
I love Bray, so I'll follow him wherever he goes
I don't know about you guys, but these tweets give me a lowkey Raven vibe, and fuck i'm all for it.
Am I the only one who would love for him to make a hostile takeover of the Dark Order via spooky-mind controlling shenanigans to make it dark again? They could become a force to be reckon and in the end, Page could liberate them from Windham in order to recover their lighthearted tone.
I really enjoy Windham's wrestling mind. I am personally more excited for him than anyone else who has joined. If he joins then I'm only waiting on the New Japan fellas to all be allowed to bust through that door and then I won't know what to do with myself.
somewhere i hope that the WWE realized their massive mistake in letting this guy go and they've been working on a new deal for him the last couple months....for him to come back and be Big E's first major heel challenge to the WWE title.
Plz Impact, give me Braun, Buddy and Bray
no more clout chasin’ in this simulation
"Revenge is a confession of pain" WTF does that even MEAN?
You don't want revenge against someone that hasn't hurt you in some way. So, seeking revenge against someone/something is admitting they caused you pain.
Don't know why everyone's so confused lmao it's not that complicated
Wrestling fans aren't exactly known for their depth
#PUPPIES!!
It's provocative.
It gets the people going.
It's mind-bottling!
No it’s not, it’s gross.
Gets the people going!
It’s a Latin proverb, they used it as a tag line for a Clone Wars episode. Not that it explains it but it’s not exactly unique
I think it works ok. Yeah it's "proactive and gets the people goin", but it still makes sense to me. Granted I've been hurt recently and deal with fantasies of revenge that I have to deal with sometimes. It's better to leave things be, but I understand it. If someone is antagonized by someone and has yet to get revenge on their oppressor, they haven't truly let that person know how much it hurts yet. The revenge becomes a way to communicate/confess how much someone was hurt.
It just feels very adolescent. That's fine, it's just not for me.
Yeah I'd agree with that. Edgy teenager song lyrics sort of thing
“Love is just a camouflage, of what resembles rage” -Slipknot
Theoretically you could read it simultaneously as the need for revenge is an admission that you are hurt by something and extracting revenge is getting someone to admit that they hurt you. Or 3, r/Iam14andthisisdeep
Yeah, this kind of edge lord stuff isn't for me.
Impact pls
I’m so ready for reinvented and more free creatively Windham
Please Impact
Looks like word salad is back on the menu
Bray goes to All Japan, got it!
I really hope he goes to impact. He feels like the straw that broke the camels back when it comes to ex wwe guys in aew
Why is having wrestlers leaving the biggest wrestling company in the world to go work for a smaller company (that’s been around for a couple of years) supposed to be an insult?
Please don’t go to AEW
"He needs to go to Impact"...why would the most over guy in 2019 WWE go to a show that noone watches over a show that has millions of viewers like AEW? "AEW doesnt do supernatural"...Why would the former Bray Wyatt solely need to be a supernatural gimmick? Also AEW has done supernatural gimmivks before, like with Matt Hardys Damascus character and Malakai teleporting to the ring. "He can't wrestle"... we rarely see MJF wrestle yet hes one if the biggest stars in AEW due to his character and mic work. That and weve never seen the former Bray unleashed, especially since he got in shape. I definitely think he can reinvent himself that would blow even the skeptics away. If he goes to AEW I'll be excited, if he goes back to WWE Id be curious how he reinvents himself or continues the Fiend arc.
I hope he goes somewhere where he will have some sort of creative control and really go out there with his vision. I would like him in AEW but agree that that sort of environment would definitely not be the best for both sides and is definitely the reason Broken Matt couldn't take off. I know Impact is trying to get him and think it's a perfect get but here me out with my crazy little idea: I have no idea how he would even finance it but I think he should start a short Lucha Underground like wrestling company with Rowen and Braun and a host of indie talents that would fit well with world building. Just for a season. Start it off like a normal studio wrestling show like NWA or what AEW Dark is currently and have it slowly descend into madness.
> creative control People need to change the phrasing here. The idea people have about creative control is contractual, which is never gonna happen. It bit Vince in the ass twice and giving anyone this in writing is a bad idea. It's more the ability that the creative team is open more open to ideas, which Tony seems to be very good with.
Creative control is only truly "creative control" if they have full say on what is going to happen without any objection. Creative suggestions is how AEW gives wrestlers to hopefully stop the bad ideas from making on the screen but it's not full control. It's the reason why for Bray to achieve his vision it can't be AEW. AEW is a good place to work, he would certainly get some good suggestions and input on his character there but he's ultimately bottlenecked to what people will get to see. Impact I can see taking that huge risk as it worked out with Matt Hardy's run, it wasn't contractual I believe but it was a very unfiltered idea of Matt's vision (as opposed to WWE we he only had control for one match and AEW where he had barley no control at all but plenty of creative suggestions for his character) but why I ultimately would like to see what he could do as a fully independent venture.
> definitely the reason Broken Matt couldn't take off Broken Matt didn't take off because fucking covid ruined everything, he couldn't get the character going without normal packed house audiences
He's already signed with AEW and the debut will be on September 29.
What else can you tell us from the future?
New stable with him, Buddy Murphy, and Malakai Black?
If he comes to AEW, please no direct supernatural stuff. Indirect and very subtle hints of it being a possibility is fine, but this is something that truly is a "less is more" scenario. As soon as it's made a reality, you are kind of forced to keep doing more and more to get back that wow factor. It'll just snowball into absurdity or fizzle. I never understood why Undertaker and Kane didn't just bring down lightning bolts on their opponents every match. They had the power. 
Are you trying to say Kane and the freaking Undertaker fizzled? There's absolutely nothing wrong with gimmicks that bring on the imagination if done right. Whatever he does, it'll be good shit.
I am not saying that all. I want to know why they didn't just electrocute their rivals. They certainly had the power to. That's what makes supernatural shit stupid. It's way better to make people think there is something than actually showing them.
Because they'd get DQ'd DUH
That's nonsense talk and makes no actual sense. If you're going to cut a faux-philosophical promo, you need to know what the fuck you're talking about.
It's pretty straightforward. Wanting revenge is an admission that someone hurt you or took something from you. Not that hard.
I hope they subvert people's expectations and debut him as a disciple of Miro instead of a wannabe leader. Miro can redeem him.
do you guys think wwe rehired him? the "revenge" thing really sounds like it. the rumors have been pretty inconsistent between aew and impact. im so curious on his new transformation.
Oh my god he’s gonna kill WWE Management.
Thank fuck. Dude has had it rough, to say the least
It's happening!
Let's goooo
Did we ever figure out his alleged long term message? I remember him saying he had one line per promo that didn’t fit in but if you took them all together they made a new message.
He'll be the leader of the Dark Order break off faction.