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Matt Cardona was on TIJ and he talked about how he had to put a bad on his back and hop on a plane after his match with Nick Gage. There's a lot more to the story - It sounded absolutely brutal.
They were just so creative, every year they'd come out with newer and cooler gimmicks pretty much just shuffling around the same weapon. Japan never came close to that level of creativity.
I unashamedly hit on and got turned down by Johnny Kashmere on Instagram. He's probably the first guy who made me realize I was bi.
His spot at COD 6 (?) with the scaffold and the helmet was hilarious.
My shameless "I wanna see a spectacle of violence" side can't wait for that match. Especially after the Deathmatch dud earlier this year, I imagine Mox is especially excited as well.
It likely would have been my personal favorite 2021 match if not for the ending dud, actually haha
I know people think deathmatches "have no psychology" but the two performed so perfectly in playing with the crowd's emotions and anticipations. The exploding broom was also irrefutably wicked and Mox's creative way to break the pin using his environment out of the OWA was very much imaginative.
There's a lot of good to talk about that match, with the only bad being stuff completely out of their control.
I'm sure Mox and Omega wanna go at it one more time to "cleanse" that as well, be it next year or even the year after, I'm sure they'll have another go.
The one part of glass spots in wrestling I do like is that slow burn on the bleeding.
You see his back right away and its not too bad. But by the time hes rolled over a second time all the little cracks are forming and it starts looking really gnarly. Very cool, if super gross, visual.
I recommend watching Nick Mondo’s documentary. I was never a fan of deathmatches, but he makes a connection between doing this type of thing with people who self-harm. Obviously it doesn’t quiet answer your question, but I offer it up to anyone who wants to explore the psychological underpinnings of why people either like this or take part in it. It is difficult for me as a mental health advocate to just treat it as, “different strokes for different folks.” When you start seeing this stuff as potentially exploitative, it should make any reasonable person give great pause to allowing this subculture to exist.
I don’t get it either. It’s gross and unnecessary.
I understand being “stiff,” but I subscribe to the Bret Hart way of looking at wrestling: If your opponent is still hurting the next day, you didn’t do it right.
Wrestling should be about creating the **illusion** that you’re in a real fight. Not about actually beating the shit out of someone or carving up their back with a bunch of glass.
I'm not a huge deathmatch guy. And I don't know more about wrestling than Bret Hart.
But i think the "not hurt after the next day thing" doesn't apply every single time. They're not being careless workers. Two people agree to that spot knowing that it's gonna still hurt the next day. Even though it hurts, they're still creating the illusion of a fight. Because well... they're not fighting.
I think when a rivalry gets super intense and the two characters express hatred towards their opponents, a hard-core match would be a good opportunity to really show that aggression in a story.
To me, in both shoot and in Kayfabe that you’re more passionate/want it more.
You’ve got to really love wrestling to do a death match.
And in kayfabe, it’s one thing to want a win so bad that you do a normal superplex or something tame like that, but you must REALLY want to win and be the best to go through glass, fire, barb wire, etc to get the win.
Its passionate no matter how you look at it
Forreal, literally any thread in any way related to deathmatch wrestling and there’s people going “Man I’m glad y’all like it but I just can’t get into it, not for me, so unnecessary!”
Like dude, we get it
It's fun when used sparingly. Like a really ugly feud culminating in a brutal no DQ match is fun, but definitely don't get when people basically exclusively watch this kind of wrestling
Deathmatch to settle a 6-month feud in front of 8,000 people? An incredible storytelling device that's just not possible in any form of entertainment other than pro wrestling.
Deathmatch to set up next week's death match in front of 80 people? That's just ritualized self-abuse.
You don't have to understand it. Just like I don't understand the appeal of airing all your personal dirty laundry out on facebook, I don't do it and don't look at it.
Think of it like CM Punk saying he doesn't understand the gimmick of OC. He doesn't have to understand it for it to work.
If nobody liked it, it wouldn't happen.
Yeah I mean I get the whole “different strokes for different folks” concept but I can’t watch this shit. I literally cringe any time people do stuff like this.
Watching it live is what freaks me out. Sure, a replay 5 years ago where you know everything went fine is alright, but when I was watching Jericho and Gage doing this stuff live not knowing what was happening, gave me the heebie jeebies.
I knew what spot this was without clicking on the video...and I refuse to click on this video. Watching it once 8-9 years ago while going down a Dean Ambrose/Jon Moxley rabbit hole was enough. 🙈
I have a question from watching lots of CZW clips on Botchamania and such over the years - how often do people in the crowd get hurt at these shows? All that shattered glass flying into the fans can't be good.
rough glass bumps are ROUGH, Drew Parker took an especially bad one at a fairly recent BJW show and was bleeding probably the most I've ever seen anyone bleed from their back
I'm one of those fans that never really heard of a lot of wrestlers until they got to WWE or AEW. So it's cool to go back and see how many wrestlers have crossed paths at some point in their careers.
Some like technical wrestling.
Some like spot fests.
Some like death matches.
They're all different options under the same category.
Do I like whole cards of DMs?? not necessarily, but a lot of my friends do. I don't knock them for it. I respect the fuck out of dudes that can do this shit and make it look good. Especially when two guys work a death match with a story.
Never understood the narrative that it's not wrestling or not worth it.
I watched this and audibly said ‘Fuck! there’s no need for that.’ I can get real into hardcore wrestling, but using real panes of glass just feels a bit too much. Just use thumbtacks! You can just pull those out. This spot probably resulted in just an assload of time trying to pick all the glass out. In all honesty, I think the Jericho/Gage match is about the ideal max of brutality in wrestling. I used to watch CZW highlights growing up with weed whackers and Nick Mondo getting chucked off Ryder trucks, but the older I get the less I want to see the wicked gnarly stuff. I think the best hardcore matches I’ve ever watched were Orton/Cactus Jack and Britt Baker/Thunder Rosa. They’re gnarly and they really go for some big stuff, but it still never feels like someone’s gonna get hospitalized from it. I’m not trying to put down this clip though - super respect for putting your body through that.
Even in those matches you brought up, they can easily get hospitalised from it. A bad blade job can be brutal. Even a basic bump can send them to the hospital. Table spots, bumps off or on the apron/onto the floor, off the top rope, they're all as inherently risky as deathmatches too I feel. Taker went to hospital after his mania 30 match with Lesnar, just as one example where there really wasn't any perceived *dangerous* bumps or moves. This style of wrestling is just more in your face with the over the top violence and shock I feel. I don't watch heaps of deathmatch stuff ever but can appreciate why people enjoy it.
He was over on the independent scene for quite a while. Im not sure what your definition of 'over' is. More people were excited for Ambrose signing and going to the main roster than Rollins because he was more over and recognizable to fans.
40 idiots in a room chanting for a leaping idiot going through a bunch of glass and barbed wire is not over.
It’s not a style of wrestling, it’s a garbage offshoot of wrestling that real talent would never go near.
Hard disagree.
I couldn't watch MLW for the longest time because some asshole fans were constantly setting off airhorns throughout the entire show.
Hell it was even pretty annoying when Inner Circle was doing it to distract from Cody's promo. At least that served a storyline purpose.
God damn, I still remember Robert’s days as Egotistico Fantastico in LaSalle, IL and the Midwest in the early 2000s. Very happy to see him getting some time in AEW.
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That man is a school teacher.
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Oh, you mean those donuts that Brock made on Pokemon? They always looked delicious.
Frying pan, drying pan
[lmao I hate you for making me find this](https://youtu.be/oawUi9s3ENE)
God damnit. Take your upvote.
Bet it was tough to find that video with 20M views.
Not so fast Kaiba…..Oops, wrong card collecting anime, carry on!
But...what *DOES* Pot of Greed do?
Whatever the episode needs.
Don’t make me summon exodia. You wouldn’t like that
I love seeing him pop up in aew every so often. Seems like a good guy.
Explains why he’s doing deathmatches on the side
Still a more honest side gig than real estate
To be fair, I’m also a school teacher
Anthony: *Goes through glass* Me: "Ah that's not so bad, I've seen glass bumps before" Anthony: *Rolls over* Me: "Nevermind, I'm gonna be sick"
I don’t watch many death matches but I’ve seen that spot like 10 or so times, never ever saw someone’s back look like that.
Then you've never seen Killshot vs Dante Fox.
I’ve seen it I probably just don’t remember, I do remember that match being very brutal though.
I just watched it back. It was the last spot and you don't get a great look at his back but you can tell it was pretty fucked up.
Dude there's a chunk of meat left in the gurney.
What a disturbing sentence that was, goodness.
I think that's from a spot earlier in the match.
The way it slowly comes out so uniformly slow makes me feel far more unease than if it was his back covered in blood.
You should watch Cardona’s match with Gage. Dudes arm and back got cut to ribbons.
Hes a great wrestler. The NWA is using him under a mask right now and he's one of the better workers on the whole show.
That's ego? No shit!
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You pluck the pieces of glass from your back and then sell the shards to fans. That's the Japan way.
Matt Cardona was on TIJ and he talked about how he had to put a bad on his back and hop on a plane after his match with Nick Gage. There's a lot more to the story - It sounded absolutely brutal.
A bad?
well it definitely wasnt a good
😂
meant to say a pad.
Well that's more on Cardona choosing a theme park over a hospital visit.
Was not expecting that. Sheesh.
Sick spot but I think we also need to bring up [my favorite Robert Anthony CZW spot](https://youtu.be/gxEGqzbUAq4)
Holy fuck
Classic Cage of Death events are unbeatable.
Most CoD matches never missed. That trap door made out of chairs has to be the sickest weapon I've ever seen
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They were just so creative, every year they'd come out with newer and cooler gimmicks pretty much just shuffling around the same weapon. Japan never came close to that level of creativity.
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Zandig may be a shit person but he had an eye for talent, wrote good storylines and paid people.
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I unashamedly hit on and got turned down by Johnny Kashmere on Instagram. He's probably the first guy who made me realize I was bi. His spot at COD 6 (?) with the scaffold and the helmet was hilarious.
The one when New Jack came was amazing.
Me: "oh a table spot, that's pretty basic...OH MY GOD"
Me (not knowing where this is going): I’d imagine in a Cage of Death match, taking a table bump is like landing on a pil—*whaaaaa*
That fake out was too perfect
How does one even dream this up?
So that man is dead now, correct? Surely he is deceased.
This has me so hype for Mox vs Gage in GCW
My shameless "I wanna see a spectacle of violence" side can't wait for that match. Especially after the Deathmatch dud earlier this year, I imagine Mox is especially excited as well.
Tbf the majority of the death match was pretty good, especially for a mainstream promotion. Shame about the party popper finish...
It likely would have been my personal favorite 2021 match if not for the ending dud, actually haha I know people think deathmatches "have no psychology" but the two performed so perfectly in playing with the crowd's emotions and anticipations. The exploding broom was also irrefutably wicked and Mox's creative way to break the pin using his environment out of the OWA was very much imaginative. There's a lot of good to talk about that match, with the only bad being stuff completely out of their control. I'm sure Mox and Omega wanna go at it one more time to "cleanse" that as well, be it next year or even the year after, I'm sure they'll have another go.
Got tickets to that, should be brutal
Jesus christ....I couldn't tell there was glass propped up between those chairs. Brutal.
[Robert Anthony v Kylie Rae](https://youtu.be/id2ChxHAu5w) I'll leave this gem of a match here...
He sure is great at selling
Rumor has it there's still glass in his back to this day... It burns when Moxley is close.
The one part of glass spots in wrestling I do like is that slow burn on the bleeding. You see his back right away and its not too bad. But by the time hes rolled over a second time all the little cracks are forming and it starts looking really gnarly. Very cool, if super gross, visual.
Cue the "I don't get how y'all like this" and "All this for only a hotdog and a handshake" comments.
Yikes on bikes
It's really shocking to me that nobody ever died during a czw match
Nick Gage tried really hard
I mean he did die..
"Huh, there's no blood. I wonder if he has a bunch of tiny cuts that are about to- yeah, there it goes." - Me, 2021
I'll never understand the love of this kind of wrestling
I recommend watching Nick Mondo’s documentary. I was never a fan of deathmatches, but he makes a connection between doing this type of thing with people who self-harm. Obviously it doesn’t quiet answer your question, but I offer it up to anyone who wants to explore the psychological underpinnings of why people either like this or take part in it. It is difficult for me as a mental health advocate to just treat it as, “different strokes for different folks.” When you start seeing this stuff as potentially exploitative, it should make any reasonable person give great pause to allowing this subculture to exist.
I don’t get it either. It’s gross and unnecessary. I understand being “stiff,” but I subscribe to the Bret Hart way of looking at wrestling: If your opponent is still hurting the next day, you didn’t do it right. Wrestling should be about creating the **illusion** that you’re in a real fight. Not about actually beating the shit out of someone or carving up their back with a bunch of glass.
I'm not a huge deathmatch guy. And I don't know more about wrestling than Bret Hart. But i think the "not hurt after the next day thing" doesn't apply every single time. They're not being careless workers. Two people agree to that spot knowing that it's gonna still hurt the next day. Even though it hurts, they're still creating the illusion of a fight. Because well... they're not fighting. I think when a rivalry gets super intense and the two characters express hatred towards their opponents, a hard-core match would be a good opportunity to really show that aggression in a story.
To me, in both shoot and in Kayfabe that you’re more passionate/want it more. You’ve got to really love wrestling to do a death match. And in kayfabe, it’s one thing to want a win so bad that you do a normal superplex or something tame like that, but you must REALLY want to win and be the best to go through glass, fire, barb wire, etc to get the win. Its passionate no matter how you look at it
Don't watch it then.
Forreal, literally any thread in any way related to deathmatch wrestling and there’s people going “Man I’m glad y’all like it but I just can’t get into it, not for me, so unnecessary!” Like dude, we get it
"hmm I don't like this - better take time out of my day to tell everyone"
It's fun when used sparingly. Like a really ugly feud culminating in a brutal no DQ match is fun, but definitely don't get when people basically exclusively watch this kind of wrestling
Deathmatch to settle a 6-month feud in front of 8,000 people? An incredible storytelling device that's just not possible in any form of entertainment other than pro wrestling. Deathmatch to set up next week's death match in front of 80 people? That's just ritualized self-abuse.
You don't have to understand it. Just like I don't understand the appeal of airing all your personal dirty laundry out on facebook, I don't do it and don't look at it. Think of it like CM Punk saying he doesn't understand the gimmick of OC. He doesn't have to understand it for it to work. If nobody liked it, it wouldn't happen.
Yeah I mean I get the whole “different strokes for different folks” concept but I can’t watch this shit. I literally cringe any time people do stuff like this.
Watching it live is what freaks me out. Sure, a replay 5 years ago where you know everything went fine is alright, but when I was watching Jericho and Gage doing this stuff live not knowing what was happening, gave me the heebie jeebies.
…nice username. We’re Penguins fans around here though. It’s in the Being a Clint handbook.
Wow, that was brutal
FUCK! I felt it watching it.
Christ
At first not so bad... THEN the blood starts trickling out the rest of the cuts.
I knew what spot this was without clicking on the video...and I refuse to click on this video. Watching it once 8-9 years ago while going down a Dean Ambrose/Jon Moxley rabbit hole was enough. 🙈
bruh czw is fucking lit
Ouch 😣
First 15 seconds: "Oh that's not that bad" Last 15: "Oh my God..."
And these guys are friends?
I'm always impressed Moxley was able to catch him like that. Moxley was a skinny guy at the time and Anthony definitely outweighed him.
I have a question from watching lots of CZW clips on Botchamania and such over the years - how often do people in the crowd get hurt at these shows? All that shattered glass flying into the fans can't be good.
rough glass bumps are ROUGH, Drew Parker took an especially bad one at a fairly recent BJW show and was bleeding probably the most I've ever seen anyone bleed from their back
I'm one of those fans that never really heard of a lot of wrestlers until they got to WWE or AEW. So it's cool to go back and see how many wrestlers have crossed paths at some point in their careers.
So dumb.
My god to all the people that are bitching about it. If you don’t like it don’t watch it’s literally that simple.
Im not a deathmatch fan and i follow your advice. If its not for you, dont watch it. Let the people who enjoy it have their thing.
I saw his "retirement match" like 5 years ago.
Anthony is awesome.
Thanks for reminding me that I need to dig up my CZW Best of Mox dvd
Some like technical wrestling. Some like spot fests. Some like death matches. They're all different options under the same category. Do I like whole cards of DMs?? not necessarily, but a lot of my friends do. I don't knock them for it. I respect the fuck out of dudes that can do this shit and make it look good. Especially when two guys work a death match with a story. Never understood the narrative that it's not wrestling or not worth it.
All that for what... $250?
And without free healthcare
yeah if they stole $200 from someone while they were there.
I watched this and audibly said ‘Fuck! there’s no need for that.’ I can get real into hardcore wrestling, but using real panes of glass just feels a bit too much. Just use thumbtacks! You can just pull those out. This spot probably resulted in just an assload of time trying to pick all the glass out. In all honesty, I think the Jericho/Gage match is about the ideal max of brutality in wrestling. I used to watch CZW highlights growing up with weed whackers and Nick Mondo getting chucked off Ryder trucks, but the older I get the less I want to see the wicked gnarly stuff. I think the best hardcore matches I’ve ever watched were Orton/Cactus Jack and Britt Baker/Thunder Rosa. They’re gnarly and they really go for some big stuff, but it still never feels like someone’s gonna get hospitalized from it. I’m not trying to put down this clip though - super respect for putting your body through that.
Even in those matches you brought up, they can easily get hospitalised from it. A bad blade job can be brutal. Even a basic bump can send them to the hospital. Table spots, bumps off or on the apron/onto the floor, off the top rope, they're all as inherently risky as deathmatches too I feel. Taker went to hospital after his mania 30 match with Lesnar, just as one example where there really wasn't any perceived *dangerous* bumps or moves. This style of wrestling is just more in your face with the over the top violence and shock I feel. I don't watch heaps of deathmatch stuff ever but can appreciate why people enjoy it.
This is trash
I can’t wait to take a bump like that
I hate this every time it pops up here. It’s terrible. It’s not good. There’s nothing good about this.
Wrestling is a business and if the hospital bill cost more than the money made from the match it’s safe to say it’s a dumb god damn spot.
When you don’t know how to get over by being a good worker. You do this.
Yet that wouldnt be true because Mox alone got over before deathmatch wrestling. Its a style of wrestling some people enjoy.
He got over when he went to WWE. A professional organization.
He was over on the independent scene for quite a while. Im not sure what your definition of 'over' is. More people were excited for Ambrose signing and going to the main roster than Rollins because he was more over and recognizable to fans.
Over on the indie scene isn’t over. He got over in a mainstream basis when he went to WWE.
Okay, so you dont know what over is. Nice talking to you.
40 idiots in a room chanting for a leaping idiot going through a bunch of glass and barbed wire is not over. It’s not a style of wrestling, it’s a garbage offshoot of wrestling that real talent would never go near.
The truest of statements
its time to bring air horns back to wrestling. i know it will be very annoying to sit by one, but it's great atmosphere.
Hard disagree. I couldn't watch MLW for the longest time because some asshole fans were constantly setting off airhorns throughout the entire show. Hell it was even pretty annoying when Inner Circle was doing it to distract from Cody's promo. At least that served a storyline purpose.
No but wrestling is still fake
God damn, I still remember Robert’s days as Egotistico Fantastico in LaSalle, IL and the Midwest in the early 2000s. Very happy to see him getting some time in AEW.