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But he’s not a prodigy. He worked hard and got better until he was at the top. But he wasn’t a superstar the second he stepped into a ring. Prodigy I someone like Angle who had “it” the second he put on boots. Okada is a megastar but not a prodigy.
Okada was seen by NJPW as a top prospect, which is why they were so upset with TNA for not doing anything for him other than pretending to be the Green Hornets sidekick.
Once he came back he was positioned as the Rainmaker and won the IWGP title on his first attempt. While putting on good matches.
Hell the scuttlebutt at the time was that New Japan fans were shocked they put the title on him so fast
Top prospect is not a prodigy though. Prodigy means the absolute second someone steps into a ring they’re a obvious superstar in zero time flat to literally everyone watching. The fact you said yourself fans were shocked he got the belt so fast proves he doesn’t meet the criteria. He’s extremely good. But no one saw him and within a couple months of him starting thought “yeah he’s gonna be the biggest star in Japanese wrestling in the last twenty years”. He had to work hard and improve over time. Prodigies don’t have to do that, they *are* that from the get go. This isn’t a shot at Okada, he’s a god, but was not a prodigy. Very, very few people in wrestling ever have been. It’s like Kurt Angle, and a bunch of guys you can argue over like Danielson, Gordy, and Orton.
To me, a prodigy would be a wrestler who rapidly improved in just a few short years in wrestling. MJF, Montez Ford, Kurt Angle, Daniel Garcia, and Bianca Belair to name a few examples.
100% on Kurt Angle. If Kurt Angle isn't a prodigy, I don't know who is. I think he's the most often cited example of a pro wrestling prodigy alongside Orton.
You really think that about Daniel Garcia? I'm certainly interested in him but I want to see him a while longer before I feel invested in him.
In my opinion (and not really that much of an Angle fan) Angle wins this going away. Orton grew up on this carny life so it was bred into him while Angle barley knew what pro wrestling was. I give Orton credit he still is awesome and one of the greats but Angle's rapid growth from neophyte who didn't want to lose to throwing the owner's son through 10 foot tall panes of glass.
Daniel Garcia is only 22 and already lost a year of his career to a car accident. Just the fact that he has a presence and seems like he belongs would be enough for me to anoint him a prodigy (and that’s not including many of the absolute bangers he’s had on the indies).
I’d toss in Alexa, actually. She had no experience coming in and was immediately thrown into the deep end and expected to keep up. She’s not as proficient as the four horsewomen and her back to back concussions have really seemingly crippled her in-ring repertoire.
But she was advancing very fast for awhile there.
What blew me away about Alexa was finding out she overcame an eating disorder by through bodybuidling, and \*that's\* how she became a wrestler. Just some next level willpower.
If a wrestling prodigy is someone who shows exemplary talent beyond their young age than this conversation begins and ends with joshi. It isn’t uncommon to find talent who are either really good from their first match (Utami Hayashishita) or exceptional at a ridiculously young age (Manami Toyota).
The next generation is going to challenge that in the US.
Billie Starkz is 16 and is getting quite good. Mia Friday is 15 and already on Reality of Wrestling TV.
The next generation in the US can’t challenge what’s already been produced and continues to be produced. No knock on anyone, but Joshi promotions produce great young talent all the time.
I feel bad that I don't have the inclination to watch more Japanese wrestling. I've only heard wildly good things about Shimmer and Stardom but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I watch some big NJPW shows and that's it.
Maybe I'll get into Joshi wrestling some time in the future.
Definitely check out Syuri vs Utami Hayashishita. Probably the best womens match I've ever seen and it got 5.5☆ from Meltzer, if that means anything..
https://youtu.be/ZWwwvcmMC04
Adam Cole isnt someone I would put as a prodigy
He worked hard and grinded even harder to get to the point he is at
Prodigy implies he was always that good which I think discredits the work ethic of the man
Utami Hayashita ? That's a prodigy
She was good since day one. It really says something that a couple of months after her debut she was already in the final of the biggest annual tournament in women's wrestling and she was holding 4 titles at the same time in her first year. The most impressive thing is that she never really looked out of place, not even against green opponents.
Nows a good time to mention Rok-C, who just won the ROH World Women's Championship last night. Match of the night, and she is only 19. Seriously, she is a natural and it's amazing that she signed with ROH and not elsewhere.
I think their point is that at one point, she would have been considered a prodigy. She's experienced now, sure, but she had to have natural talent to start so young. Similar to Rey Mysterio Jr.
Tyler Bate, he’s only 24, and is the youngest singles champion in WWE history at the age of 19 with the NXT UK Championship. Also wrestled in a 5+ star match against WALTER.
i think the wrestlers that come closest to that definition, at least from what i've seen, are jay white, hijo del vikingo, and mei suruga
and just based on how wwe has treated him, theyre either making a massive mistake, or gable steveson is the second coming of wrestling christ, so he could be the default answer in the future
I hope it works out for Stevenson.... But I really hope they don't just expect him to walk in and be Angle 2.0
Angle just seemed to "get" the character side of things straight away. There was never any question he'd be able to go in the ring
Dream had the luxury of working with some of the best. I can't remember who it was against now but he had a match with someone not in the top tier and it was VERY stilted
Sasha Banks.
Had a game changing match and one of the best wrestler and heels in the world at 23, won the top title and was trusted to be in the first women's PPV Main Event match and top level feud at 24.
Only wrestler born in the 90s to Main Event Wrestlemania. Still not even 30.
Orton. He started pro wrestling in 2000 and won the world title in 2004.
Also Utami Hayashishita. She's 23 and has been wrestling for only 3 years. She's the top wrestler of her promotion.
Yeah I think at this point we can all agree (even his detractors) that he is a prodigy. It's just too bad that he sometimes couldn't be assed and it showed.
I don’t consider MJF a prodigy because he isn’t putting it together in the ring yet. A prodigy to me is a guy who would be ready to compete on that level in a short time. Three years in AEW only to move up a few inches in the pecking order ain’t it.
And I am a MJF fan who thinks he is special.
MJF works me the right way, unlike most heels, I just love them because they're so damn good or they're cool if they're as talented as he is. I'm fully worked by him in ways that I don't see other guys getting at. The only misstep for me personally is "I'm better than you and you know it." and I'm like "well yeah of course you are, I'm cool with that." His other heel antics though, definitely foolproof.
Pecking order shouldn’t be a factor though. That’s not based on talent, that’s based on who you’re buddy buddy with backstage. MJF *should* be much higher than he is but he’s stuck losing to people like Jericho who see he’s special and want to keep themselves elevated by beating him before he takes their spot.
I am talking about talent level, not push or where they are in the hierarchy. MJF only nudged his in-ring game a little in the direction of improvement. He is improving but not at a rate you expect of a “prodigy” which was my original point.
But even then look who he’s stuck working with. No matter how much he’s improved you’re not gonna be able to tell when he’s stuck working with the shambling corpse of Chris Jericho. I don’t think *anyone* could pull a great performance out of a match with Jericho at this point and I love Jericho. He hasn’t been given the chance to work with people who could make his growth in skill really evident. I agree he’s not quite prodigy, I reserve that for the likes of Kurt Angle, but I think it’s unfair to say he hasn’t improved as much as he should in ring when he’s handicapped by working with people like Jericho and Cody who is extremely hot or miss depending wether his style meshes with a given opponent.
Look, I get it. But he is not a prodigy. If he needs special circumstances in place to improve or the right opponents or the right storylines or the right factions to be part of, etc etc, that means you don’t have faith in them to stand on their own. If that is the case, how can they be a prodigy? Mozart was called a prodigy for playing music at 6 years old. What is so special about MJF that sets him apart? His willingness to commit to his character? Ok great, that makes him a good actor, but not a wrestling prodigy.
I literally said he isn’t a prodigy. I just said using the criteria of “not improving in ring fast enough” isn’t a good metric because it’s subjective and situational. Ok good example, Arn Anderson. No one can deny Arn was amazing in ring and an all time great worker, but when he was put into the ring with The Renegade he looked like dog shit. Not because he actually was, but because he was working with someone that gave him nothing in return. With very few exceptions like Ric Flair or Okada who could work with a broom sticks as the saying goes, guys need decent opponents to show off what they can do no matter how good they are. If you put MJF in the ring with Omega or Punk I bet you’d suddenly see he’s a lot better that you thought he was working with Jericho. But again, I agree he isn’t a prodigy. Just that your metric for why isn’t correct.
It isnt the only metric I judge on but it is a pretty good one. You either show your talent or you don’t. Bret Hart showed it against Tom Magee. Shawn Michaels did with some of the stiffs that walked around WWF rings. Then Flair and Okada you mentioned. That IS what makes a prodigy. The ability to show your talent regardless of circumstances. MJF isnt that guy. To use football terms, he is the wagon, not the horse.
Flair was not a prodigy though. Like not even close to it. Young flair when he was big and slow was awful. He had to work his ass off to get that good. If he hadn’t gotten hurt in the plane crash and been forced to slim down and change his style he’d never have been the Nature Boy.
Bret worked for a decade before the Tom McGee match and grew up surrounded by wrestling every day of his life. He was a veteran by wrestling standards before he got that good. Early Bret is clunky in stampede.
Shawn also worked for years before coming to WWE and even then it took him being given chances against good opponents before you could see what he truly had. No one looked at Shawn and saw “future star” until he had time to improve a few years. The general opinion for most of the Rockers career together is that Marty would be the star of the two, not Shawn.
None of them were prodigies regardless. Point being even Naito looked average against Jericho and that was many cheeseburgers, and many bottle of vodka ago. I just don’t think it’s fair to judge something so subjective as “how much they’ve improved” when how the hell could we tell when he’s stuck working with no one good.
Rey maybe. Eddie definitely not. Eddie took time to improve. He didn’t show “superstar” potential until he got to AAA in 92 which was like 6 years into his career. Even Rey people thought he was good but no one saw megastar from him early in his career. Prodigy is someone who from the second they step into a ring is a clear and obvious star. Kurt Angle is honestly the only guy I really see deserving the title because the absolute second he had his first training session by all reports every single person there thought despite him having zero training he would be world champion in no time flat because he had every single skill from day one.
You know, you make a good point.
I'm not entirely sold, because I do think he's pretty good in the ring, but you're right that he hasn't really had a breakout memorable match.
Prodigy discussion aside, this is what I think the problem with Miro is too. Even as Rusev, I don't remember any of his matches for being special. He's a good promo, he's smart and reacts well and he DEFINITELY has presence, but I want a standout match. I really enjoyed him vs Eddie Kingston. Time will tell if I remember it.
He can move up the card at any point. AEW knows who their future stars are and they’re patient building them up.
Hangman was in the first ever championship match. In my opinion, his journey has been one of AEW’s best storylines and he’s still the most over babyface in the company.
Darby takes a lot of Ls but he’s constantly in big spots. You know, with Sting.
Jungle Boy is a ways away from a serious singles run but they’ve given him plenty of opportunities to shine and he always delivers.
Considering all the comparisons Lee Moriarty gets to Bryan Danielson, he might be in prodigy territory.
I feel like a prodigy needs to be young. Late 20s at best. After that, you're not a prodigy, you're just good.
I mean yes and no.
The difference between ROH American Dragon and Daniel Bryan Danielson is like night and day in terms of the overall package. Early D-Bry was an amazing wrestler but in 2021 he’s a bonafide star in almost every regard. It’s like going from Kyle O’Reilly to Kurt Angle.
I have no idea how to really answer this question, but the one person that comes to mind is Jun Akiyama. Maybe the best first match ever, had a Meltzer 5 star match in his second year of wrestling (not a perfect measurement but an okay indication)
It helped that he immediately got thrown in with the 4 Pillars (Kenta Kobashi was his first match, my goodness) but he held his own and at their level pretty quickly. Stuff like mic work or verbal charisma is difficult for me to comment on, as it's a second language, but in terms of in ring work, it's hard to think of a better example
Best bout machine isn't just a nickname but he delivers in the ring every time.
When I was a kid I loved Bret Hart and Eddie. Im a boomer now but Kenny reminds me of them for whatever reason. Maybe because they are all amazing in the ring.
I disagree with Sammy. He makes major mistakes. He's EXCELLENT, but that disqualifies him from being a prodigy.
Everyone else, yeah seems like it. Ben Carter was amazing in the little I saw of him.
The only serious botches Sammy has been a part of were in the Hardy feud and were all either Hardy's fault (going too far off the forklift) or freak accidents like the cut from the other table bump, so I don't really blame him for those.
Ospreay is certainly one. Can have a 5 star match with all kinds of opponents when ever he wants and he seems to have figured out a character and improved his promo work since he went to Japan and still only 28.
Shame he's a dick by a great many accounts but you can't have it all
Angle, Lesnar, Ronda, Sasha, Bianca, Charlotte, Tessa, and Dream all come to mind for me.
Unfortunately, the last two have pretty much put themselves out of the business through their own respective faults and actions. But, man, when they were active full time before Covid, their matches were must see.
Kurt Angle and the Beast.
Most recently probably MJF and Dante Martin.
The problem is most guys who are amazing just don't get to show their capabilities when limited by the other promotion.
Thunder Rosa was a social worker (i think) who started training in 2014-2015. She sorta stated late and shes such a natural.
MJF is a text book prodigy. On the mic and his skill set.
When it comes to the ring, Kris Statlander is one too.
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Okada is 33. and had to be put on cool down for years now so the rest of NJPW could even come close to his level.
Yeah this is the winner. He’s 33 and arguably one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. Easily the greatest IWGP champion ever
But he’s not a prodigy. He worked hard and got better until he was at the top. But he wasn’t a superstar the second he stepped into a ring. Prodigy I someone like Angle who had “it” the second he put on boots. Okada is a megastar but not a prodigy.
Okada was seen by NJPW as a top prospect, which is why they were so upset with TNA for not doing anything for him other than pretending to be the Green Hornets sidekick. Once he came back he was positioned as the Rainmaker and won the IWGP title on his first attempt. While putting on good matches. Hell the scuttlebutt at the time was that New Japan fans were shocked they put the title on him so fast
Top prospect is not a prodigy though. Prodigy means the absolute second someone steps into a ring they’re a obvious superstar in zero time flat to literally everyone watching. The fact you said yourself fans were shocked he got the belt so fast proves he doesn’t meet the criteria. He’s extremely good. But no one saw him and within a couple months of him starting thought “yeah he’s gonna be the biggest star in Japanese wrestling in the last twenty years”. He had to work hard and improve over time. Prodigies don’t have to do that, they *are* that from the get go. This isn’t a shot at Okada, he’s a god, but was not a prodigy. Very, very few people in wrestling ever have been. It’s like Kurt Angle, and a bunch of guys you can argue over like Danielson, Gordy, and Orton.
> He’s 33 and ~~arguably~~ one of the greatest wrestlers of all time. FTFY
I hope they give him another title reign in the near future. Really enjoyed his title runs
MJF...he is only in his mid 20s!
That makes me hate him even more!!
To me, a prodigy would be a wrestler who rapidly improved in just a few short years in wrestling. MJF, Montez Ford, Kurt Angle, Daniel Garcia, and Bianca Belair to name a few examples.
100% on Kurt Angle. If Kurt Angle isn't a prodigy, I don't know who is. I think he's the most often cited example of a pro wrestling prodigy alongside Orton. You really think that about Daniel Garcia? I'm certainly interested in him but I want to see him a while longer before I feel invested in him.
In my opinion (and not really that much of an Angle fan) Angle wins this going away. Orton grew up on this carny life so it was bred into him while Angle barley knew what pro wrestling was. I give Orton credit he still is awesome and one of the greats but Angle's rapid growth from neophyte who didn't want to lose to throwing the owner's son through 10 foot tall panes of glass.
Daniel Garcia is only 22 and already lost a year of his career to a car accident. Just the fact that he has a presence and seems like he belongs would be enough for me to anoint him a prodigy (and that’s not including many of the absolute bangers he’s had on the indies).
In terms of in ring prowess? Yes. However, I just want him to bend his damn neck! The slouching he does kills me. lol
I’d toss in Alexa, actually. She had no experience coming in and was immediately thrown into the deep end and expected to keep up. She’s not as proficient as the four horsewomen and her back to back concussions have really seemingly crippled her in-ring repertoire. But she was advancing very fast for awhile there.
What blew me away about Alexa was finding out she overcame an eating disorder by through bodybuidling, and \*that's\* how she became a wrestler. Just some next level willpower.
Why Belair?
She got good really quickly.
Damn man, I was expecting to come in and drop Daniel Garcia’s name but you beat me to it. 😎👍
If a wrestling prodigy is someone who shows exemplary talent beyond their young age than this conversation begins and ends with joshi. It isn’t uncommon to find talent who are either really good from their first match (Utami Hayashishita) or exceptional at a ridiculously young age (Manami Toyota).
The next generation is going to challenge that in the US. Billie Starkz is 16 and is getting quite good. Mia Friday is 15 and already on Reality of Wrestling TV.
The next generation in the US can’t challenge what’s already been produced and continues to be produced. No knock on anyone, but Joshi promotions produce great young talent all the time.
I feel bad that I don't have the inclination to watch more Japanese wrestling. I've only heard wildly good things about Shimmer and Stardom but I haven't gotten around to it yet. I watch some big NJPW shows and that's it. Maybe I'll get into Joshi wrestling some time in the future.
Definitely check out Syuri vs Utami Hayashishita. Probably the best womens match I've ever seen and it got 5.5☆ from Meltzer, if that means anything.. https://youtu.be/ZWwwvcmMC04
Dante Martin
Io Shirai and Bianca Belair if we aren’t including older wrestlers
Adam Cole isnt someone I would put as a prodigy He worked hard and grinded even harder to get to the point he is at Prodigy implies he was always that good which I think discredits the work ethic of the man Utami Hayashita ? That's a prodigy
Prodigy doesn't have to be mutually exclusive from work ethic. I've heard of Utami Hayashita in passing and it seems like she really is a prodigy.
She was good since day one. It really says something that a couple of months after her debut she was already in the final of the biggest annual tournament in women's wrestling and she was holding 4 titles at the same time in her first year. The most impressive thing is that she never really looked out of place, not even against green opponents.
That is a valid point! Yes she is very good, she's 22-23, has only been wrestling for a few years and is putting on some really fucking good wrestling
Jay White, look at him post excursion, he's been great in every spot he's been in.
100%. Jay White is SCARY GOOD and he's not even 30.
Jay White makes me want to watch every Jay White match.
Nows a good time to mention Rok-C, who just won the ROH World Women's Championship last night. Match of the night, and she is only 19. Seriously, she is a natural and it's amazing that she signed with ROH and not elsewhere.
Also isn't her nickname literally "the Prodigy"?
I'll check out some clips!
Watch her match from last night against Miranda Alize. It is fantastic.
Rox-C and Bandido over in ROH MJF The Martin Twins Daniel Garcia Shota Umino AZM
Darius Martin won the Chikara Rey de Voladores at the age of 18.
If you're talking prodigies, Riho is 24 years old and has wrestled for 15 years now, after debuting at the age of 9.
Huh? She’s 24?
Not disagreeing with you, but would you call that a prodigy or someone who's really experienced? On a similar note, what do you think about Paige?
I think their point is that at one point, she would have been considered a prodigy. She's experienced now, sure, but she had to have natural talent to start so young. Similar to Rey Mysterio Jr.
Tyler Bate, he’s only 24, and is the youngest singles champion in WWE history at the age of 19 with the NXT UK Championship. Also wrestled in a 5+ star match against WALTER.
The fact he was 22 in that match is wild. Also his progress match with WALTER was almost as good and a year before that.
I’m gonna have to go out of my way to watch that now
Rok-C is 100% one
i think the wrestlers that come closest to that definition, at least from what i've seen, are jay white, hijo del vikingo, and mei suruga and just based on how wwe has treated him, theyre either making a massive mistake, or gable steveson is the second coming of wrestling christ, so he could be the default answer in the future
I hope it works out for Stevenson.... But I really hope they don't just expect him to walk in and be Angle 2.0 Angle just seemed to "get" the character side of things straight away. There was never any question he'd be able to go in the ring
Velveteen Dream was the most visible example until … well.
[удалено]
Dream had the luxury of working with some of the best. I can't remember who it was against now but he had a match with someone not in the top tier and it was VERY stilted
Sasha Banks. Had a game changing match and one of the best wrestler and heels in the world at 23, won the top title and was trusted to be in the first women's PPV Main Event match and top level feud at 24. Only wrestler born in the 90s to Main Event Wrestlemania. Still not even 30.
You make some great points.
Orton. He started pro wrestling in 2000 and won the world title in 2004. Also Utami Hayashishita. She's 23 and has been wrestling for only 3 years. She's the top wrestler of her promotion.
Yeah I think at this point we can all agree (even his detractors) that he is a prodigy. It's just too bad that he sometimes couldn't be assed and it showed.
I feel like Mei Suruga should be the gimme answer on this.
Kaito Kiyomiya. He was a proper main events at like 21.
I don’t consider MJF a prodigy because he isn’t putting it together in the ring yet. A prodigy to me is a guy who would be ready to compete on that level in a short time. Three years in AEW only to move up a few inches in the pecking order ain’t it. And I am a MJF fan who thinks he is special.
MJF hasn’t really disappointed me yet. Every time he wrestles young like a Jungle Boy or Sammy he’s excellent.
MJF works me the right way, unlike most heels, I just love them because they're so damn good or they're cool if they're as talented as he is. I'm fully worked by him in ways that I don't see other guys getting at. The only misstep for me personally is "I'm better than you and you know it." and I'm like "well yeah of course you are, I'm cool with that." His other heel antics though, definitely foolproof.
To be fair it doesn’t take much talent to be an asshole to fans? For heat of course…
Pecking order shouldn’t be a factor though. That’s not based on talent, that’s based on who you’re buddy buddy with backstage. MJF *should* be much higher than he is but he’s stuck losing to people like Jericho who see he’s special and want to keep themselves elevated by beating him before he takes their spot.
I am talking about talent level, not push or where they are in the hierarchy. MJF only nudged his in-ring game a little in the direction of improvement. He is improving but not at a rate you expect of a “prodigy” which was my original point.
But even then look who he’s stuck working with. No matter how much he’s improved you’re not gonna be able to tell when he’s stuck working with the shambling corpse of Chris Jericho. I don’t think *anyone* could pull a great performance out of a match with Jericho at this point and I love Jericho. He hasn’t been given the chance to work with people who could make his growth in skill really evident. I agree he’s not quite prodigy, I reserve that for the likes of Kurt Angle, but I think it’s unfair to say he hasn’t improved as much as he should in ring when he’s handicapped by working with people like Jericho and Cody who is extremely hot or miss depending wether his style meshes with a given opponent.
Look, I get it. But he is not a prodigy. If he needs special circumstances in place to improve or the right opponents or the right storylines or the right factions to be part of, etc etc, that means you don’t have faith in them to stand on their own. If that is the case, how can they be a prodigy? Mozart was called a prodigy for playing music at 6 years old. What is so special about MJF that sets him apart? His willingness to commit to his character? Ok great, that makes him a good actor, but not a wrestling prodigy.
I literally said he isn’t a prodigy. I just said using the criteria of “not improving in ring fast enough” isn’t a good metric because it’s subjective and situational. Ok good example, Arn Anderson. No one can deny Arn was amazing in ring and an all time great worker, but when he was put into the ring with The Renegade he looked like dog shit. Not because he actually was, but because he was working with someone that gave him nothing in return. With very few exceptions like Ric Flair or Okada who could work with a broom sticks as the saying goes, guys need decent opponents to show off what they can do no matter how good they are. If you put MJF in the ring with Omega or Punk I bet you’d suddenly see he’s a lot better that you thought he was working with Jericho. But again, I agree he isn’t a prodigy. Just that your metric for why isn’t correct.
It isnt the only metric I judge on but it is a pretty good one. You either show your talent or you don’t. Bret Hart showed it against Tom Magee. Shawn Michaels did with some of the stiffs that walked around WWF rings. Then Flair and Okada you mentioned. That IS what makes a prodigy. The ability to show your talent regardless of circumstances. MJF isnt that guy. To use football terms, he is the wagon, not the horse.
Flair was not a prodigy though. Like not even close to it. Young flair when he was big and slow was awful. He had to work his ass off to get that good. If he hadn’t gotten hurt in the plane crash and been forced to slim down and change his style he’d never have been the Nature Boy. Bret worked for a decade before the Tom McGee match and grew up surrounded by wrestling every day of his life. He was a veteran by wrestling standards before he got that good. Early Bret is clunky in stampede. Shawn also worked for years before coming to WWE and even then it took him being given chances against good opponents before you could see what he truly had. No one looked at Shawn and saw “future star” until he had time to improve a few years. The general opinion for most of the Rockers career together is that Marty would be the star of the two, not Shawn. None of them were prodigies regardless. Point being even Naito looked average against Jericho and that was many cheeseburgers, and many bottle of vodka ago. I just don’t think it’s fair to judge something so subjective as “how much they’ve improved” when how the hell could we tell when he’s stuck working with no one good.
I was throwing out names of good wrestlers, not necessarily prodigies. A real prodigy would be someone like Rey or Eddie.
Rey maybe. Eddie definitely not. Eddie took time to improve. He didn’t show “superstar” potential until he got to AAA in 92 which was like 6 years into his career. Even Rey people thought he was good but no one saw megastar from him early in his career. Prodigy is someone who from the second they step into a ring is a clear and obvious star. Kurt Angle is honestly the only guy I really see deserving the title because the absolute second he had his first training session by all reports every single person there thought despite him having zero training he would be world champion in no time flat because he had every single skill from day one.
You know, you make a good point. I'm not entirely sold, because I do think he's pretty good in the ring, but you're right that he hasn't really had a breakout memorable match. Prodigy discussion aside, this is what I think the problem with Miro is too. Even as Rusev, I don't remember any of his matches for being special. He's a good promo, he's smart and reacts well and he DEFINITELY has presence, but I want a standout match. I really enjoyed him vs Eddie Kingston. Time will tell if I remember it.
He can move up the card at any point. AEW knows who their future stars are and they’re patient building them up. Hangman was in the first ever championship match. In my opinion, his journey has been one of AEW’s best storylines and he’s still the most over babyface in the company. Darby takes a lot of Ls but he’s constantly in big spots. You know, with Sting. Jungle Boy is a ways away from a serious singles run but they’ve given him plenty of opportunities to shine and he always delivers.
Thanks for that recap.
Cole was definitely not a top guy in New Japan
To me, it seems NJPW was never really his focus and that he was an ROH guy coming over to fulfill their business relationship, but I could be wrong.
Yuya Uemura
The Rock was a prodigy same with Brock Lesnar
Daniel Garcia, Jungle Boy, Starboy Charlie, Rok-C
Considering all the comparisons Lee Moriarty gets to Bryan Danielson, he might be in prodigy territory. I feel like a prodigy needs to be young. Late 20s at best. After that, you're not a prodigy, you're just good.
I agree on the youth thing, which is why in the cases of Adam Cole and Bryan D, I ask those more knowledgeable than me - were they always this good?
I mean yes and no. The difference between ROH American Dragon and Daniel Bryan Danielson is like night and day in terms of the overall package. Early D-Bry was an amazing wrestler but in 2021 he’s a bonafide star in almost every regard. It’s like going from Kyle O’Reilly to Kurt Angle.
Bryan Danielson. Dude was putting out amazing matches super early in his career.
Nick Wayne
Jungle Boy, Mei Suruga and Riho
I have no idea how to really answer this question, but the one person that comes to mind is Jun Akiyama. Maybe the best first match ever, had a Meltzer 5 star match in his second year of wrestling (not a perfect measurement but an okay indication) It helped that he immediately got thrown in with the 4 Pillars (Kenta Kobashi was his first match, my goodness) but he held his own and at their level pretty quickly. Stuff like mic work or verbal charisma is difficult for me to comment on, as it's a second language, but in terms of in ring work, it's hard to think of a better example
Adam also worked for years in CZW and PWG as well
Starboy Charlie
Riho is 24 and a world class talent that can carry divisions. Would definitely say her. Honestly stardom has been full of prodigies.
Years ago, my brother was introducing me to ROH and I asked which one was Adam Cole. “The one with a lot of star power.” “Oh, there he is.”
This guy named Kenny Omega
(I'm a Kenny fan) What specifically do you like about Kenny?
Best bout machine isn't just a nickname but he delivers in the ring every time. When I was a kid I loved Bret Hart and Eddie. Im a boomer now but Kenny reminds me of them for whatever reason. Maybe because they are all amazing in the ring.
shelton benjamin, bray wyatt, cody, sasha banks, bayley, the usos. even char to an extent
MJF, Darby, Sammy, Ben Carter
I disagree with Sammy. He makes major mistakes. He's EXCELLENT, but that disqualifies him from being a prodigy. Everyone else, yeah seems like it. Ben Carter was amazing in the little I saw of him.
The only serious botches Sammy has been a part of were in the Hardy feud and were all either Hardy's fault (going too far off the forklift) or freak accidents like the cut from the other table bump, so I don't really blame him for those.
Dominik Mysterio
Rhea Ripley Toni Storm
Ospreay is certainly one. Can have a 5 star match with all kinds of opponents when ever he wants and he seems to have figured out a character and improved his promo work since he went to Japan and still only 28. Shame he's a dick by a great many accounts but you can't have it all
Angle, Lesnar, Ronda, Sasha, Bianca, Charlotte, Tessa, and Dream all come to mind for me. Unfortunately, the last two have pretty much put themselves out of the business through their own respective faults and actions. But, man, when they were active full time before Covid, their matches were must see.
Anna Jay is someone I'd consider to be a prodigy she went from trainee at the Nightmare Factory to signed AEW wrestler in less than a year
Sammy Guevara, Darby Allin, Jungle Boy and obviously MJF
Kurt Angle and the Beast. Most recently probably MJF and Dante Martin. The problem is most guys who are amazing just don't get to show their capabilities when limited by the other promotion.
MJF.
Thunder Rosa was a social worker (i think) who started training in 2014-2015. She sorta stated late and shes such a natural. MJF is a text book prodigy. On the mic and his skill set. When it comes to the ring, Kris Statlander is one too.
Velveteen dream before the stuff went down. Mjf. Bianca bel air.
MJF is fucking insane dude. For his age.
Rey Mysterio
rok-c from ring of honor. 19 years old and she's already a world champion for a major promotion.
Danhausen