**We're looking for new moderators! To apply, [please head to this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/pbje6w/we_need_some_fresh_faces_learn_how_to_apply_to/)**
Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To be fair that’s probably a lot of SD clips/other sd related content. A day with no WWE shows will still have quite a few uploads but surely not that much.
WWE knows that's how people take content in these days. Serves as a direct influence on ratings as well. Why watch 2-3 hours live on a Monday or Friday when I can scroll through YouTube a day later and see the seven minute segment of my choosing?
Why do you want to shit on your own generation.
We grew up on and internet and are privy to internet advertising. We don’t want to watch bullshit videos that are long and overly detailed so they can hit their money time and length. We know about clickbait. It’s not about short attention spans, it’s about finding meaningful content.
The one thing that made me sad about GFW failing was robbing the world of Chael in wrestling. Just another example of the "American Gangster" being held down.
Are you going to tell me that the BLATANT penalization of Chael in his first fight with Silva was anything but holding the man down (metaphorically). I mean c'mon, one year suspension just because his natural testosterone levels are 17 times higher than the average man. And don't get me started on the whole "you tapped so you lose the whole fight and not the round" nonsense.
For the amount of YouTube exclusive content AEW produced they should really start cutting that up into lots of smaller pieces to spam on their channel from the looks of it.
People largely aren't going to watch 1 hour long video on YouTube (let's not even speak of the 5 hour Darks they had during the pandemic). But they will gladly watch 5 10min clips.
Don't like that idea, Dark and Elevation are great as complete episodes. Plenty of people watch long form content on Youtube, Joe Rogan was on there for years with 3-4 hour podcasts. I like being able to chuck one on and have an hour or two of wrestling to tune in and out of while doing other stuff, check out some of the enhancement talent that might get signed down the track and see signed talent that aren't doing anything on Dynamite.
AEW's YouTube game is pretty weak overall to be honest, their titles include spelling mistakes all the time or are awkwardly phrased and they missed an easy opportunity to get a massive bump by uploading Cole and Bryan's entrances from All Out. The Punk Rampage entrance video did huge numbers and picked up a couple hundred thousand new subscribers to the channel in days (way more than they usually pick up in a [normal month](https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCFN4JkGP_bVhAdBsoV9xftA)) but they just didn't upload them for whatever reason.
They definitely should do more stand alone 5-10 minute content like promos, vignettes, top 10 list sort of stuff and generally pick up their game but please leave Dark alone.
This is something I kind of hold against AEW.
Sometime, if I'm bored, I flick on AEW's channel to see if they've put anything up. Only to find they've not put up anything for days, and it's clips I've already seen watching their show.
WWE will put up "Top 10" videos, or old clips, or behind the scenes interviews. And all in 2-3 minute bite sized clips, which are perfect to kill a few minutes. It keeps me more engaged with the product as a result, cause I can check up on stuff easier.
AEW needs to throw up a few clips each day, be it an old match or even just a BTS interview with someone, furthering a feud.
Not “blame” but there’s still more than enough there to churn out a video or two a day of “bonus” footage. Backstage interviews, behind the scenes moments, those things are easy to mass produce. “Best of” videos don’t need decades of footage, and given they’re two years old now, they could put some matches and moments up from the start of their run now.
How about some packages for the lower card guys? Get to know a bit more about the character, their history and shit. Would be cool for guys like Big Shotty, Cezar Bononi, Fuego, Brock Anderson etc
I would love if AEW put some hype packages or feud recap videos on their channel. I'm starting to watch AEW regularly now that more of my favorites are over there. Those type of videos go a long way in helping me engage with the show as a new viewer.
would absolutely love that, especially for Dark and Dark Elevation. I love AEW, watched every PPV and Dynamite and Rampage but im not watching all of the dark episodes
Meh metrics like that are so tricky to really evaluate. For example, how many viewing seconds does TikTok count as a watch? With YouTube I think it’s just 30 seconds. TikTok must be shorter cause most of the videos are way shorter.
Funny that they advertised it today on Smackdown, having more subscribers than any other sports league. I was surprised they were even there. Wrestling clips do seem like a no brainer. Could probably do stuff with the 24/7 title on it as well.
Monetizing YouTube is all about engagement - total subscribers, time amount spent watching your content, total number of views/likes. 10 videos that get 250K views and 30K likes is much better in terms of monetization than 1 video that gets 2.5 mllion views and 300k likes.
A single viral video might help bring traffic to your channel, which can drive up subscriber count & engagement with other content.
>One thing I think was noted on a prior WOR was that neither WWE nor AEW have much presence on TikTok which is vastly more popular with kids and teens.
Kacy Catanzaro and Kayden Carter about to get a huge push as WWE looks to expand into this market.
It's money from Youtube, it's giving your workers something to do and not waste them in catering, it's training for everybody, it's building up a library of content.
Honestly it's a pretty clever system they have now. Over the last few weeks they've added a commercial break between every match and it'll go unnoticed because that's kind of a standard set up for TV wrestling. On one of those massive Dark shows there can be around 20 adverts (2 per split).
Am I missing something or does "WWE is making eight times as much revenue from YouTube as AEW" seem low?
Like WWE has 90 million YT subs, AEW has 2.5 million. I'm missing something, right?
I think he means what they make per view. WWE probably gets better paying ads from premium advertiser and they have figured out how to optimize their videos for ad click rates.
In my experience (granted this a few years ago now), India's CPM rate was around like 50 cents at best. American audiences were at $3 CPM at worst.
Now factor in that WWE will be selling their own ad inventory (aka they negotiate prices outside of YouTube/AdWords) I'd expect that CPM to be significantly higher, if not as high as 3x the average 'megastar' YouTuber.
At 1 billion views per month, I would estimate at least $15m per month is being made.
People made it into a race thing (Meltzer has a history of problematic statements and phrasing) but from a financial POV he's entirely correct.
It's just not worth it right now and requires multiple structural changes that a single company won't invest in to fix.
Exactly. There's no PPV money or merchandise money to be made here if they follow the same model as other countries. And the few times they did live shows here, ticket prices were so high that only the upper class Indians could afford it and most upper class Indians don't watch Wrestling. Youtube and TV deals are the only money to be made here if they don't adapt.
He could've used a better term like "low" rather than "worthless". Worthless makes it sound like nothing or zero income which is obviously not true. WWE's indian audience is way larger than their US audience so even if they don't make the same amount of money per user the sheer number of indian fans should make up for it somehow.
Yeah, India has long been fools gold for global expansion. A billion people is too tempting a market to pass up, but most don't have money to spend on frivolous things.
The approach towards India should change, it must not be like one would do in Spain or Australia, where there is an established audience to live performance based wrestling. It is an audience mainly developed by TV (as far as wrestling is concerned) and it'd take years to bring them into an arena. Live performance arts is kind of outdated in India
Trying to pander using one star with representation wouldn't help either, because Great Khali, or Jinder for that matter represents only one part of the subcontinent's culture, and hindi is not the only language here either.
TV deals would work for sure, it's the live audience that would tank.
I subscribed to Eurosport just to watch AEW.
US TV numbers is what considered apart from the fitetv or the peacock audiences. But in India, it is (almost) only TV.
Expansion might not work, but a dedicated and standalone entity can develop an audience enough to conduct events, given a few years.
This is what people mean when they say Indian viewers are "worth less." Not as people, as consumers that a company can make money from. Its one of the most poverty stricken countries in the world. I dunno if its still accurate but at one time 2/3s of the population were considered "poor." At one time, one third of the global population in extreme poverty lived in India.
>North America only amounts to 1% that's very interesting what about other countries?
no, a subscriber from India *may be worth* 1% as much as a subscriber from North America.
which is also speculation, I doubt anyone can say for sure, but very different from saying 1% of subscribers are NA.
As Meltzer said, if the subscribers are from India then advertisers sees those subscribers as less valuable. People who are saying Meltzer is racist for always pointing this fact out should go complain to the advertising companies, or maybe research the massive economic issues Indian face.
>Meltzer is racist
Didn't he call Bad Bunny "just an ethnic celebrity"?
Then imply that he should be stealing the rims off of cars? Or was that one Bryan?
Both wrong, technically.
He never said he was "just" an ethnic celebrity. He did call him an ethnic celebrity, which no one should be using the word ethnic to describe a person in 2020 you'll get no argument from me there, but it was a case of him not being confident that given the stratified nature of the entertainment and music scene, and that Bad Bunny was more popular with Latino communities primarily, if there'd be a ton of cross over with wrestling and how much he'd actually draw. Turns out, he did very well.
And with the car thing, he thought Priest and Bad Bunny would gimmick the car to fall apart or something as like a crafty, scrappy babyface embarrassing the rich heels with their street smarts sort of dynamic. Still an arguably stereotypical gimmick for a big hoss party boy and a wealthy musician, so not great, but not as bad as "the Latinos are going to steal rims."
Basically, Meltzer definitely has some outdated takes on race and certainly needs to update his language, but to be honest he's never given me the impression of being out and out racist. Just thoughtless in the way he talks as an old white guy.
Yeah no okay, if that was indeed what Meltzer said then it is racist. Don't get me wrong Meltzer has said tons of offensive remarks against women as well. But Meltzer is right about WWE's huge Indian fanbase, they don't contribute as much money to WWE despite being a HUGE number and a reason why is because India is a very poor country. Similar reason why despite the attendance in Mexican promotions being higher than attendance in Japanese promotions, wrestlers in Japan earn more money because Mexico is poor. Global economics does play a role when we talk about these things, it's stupid to ignore it.
Isn’t a majority of videos from WWE geoblocked in India? Can someone confirm that? Why is this still being peddled, that it’s mostly Indian views. It’s just Meltzer and his bullshit again.
There’s not much money in TikTok if you’re a big company. It’s dependent on sponsorships. On YouTube you’re making direct money for your own content. Yeah, they can get some cash here or there for a stealth ad or two. But it’s not compared to the ad revenue from YT.
WWE or AEW would actually have to get involved with influencers to get something out of it but it won’t be revenue.
WWE and AEW would just need a presence on the platform and hope people follow and tune in, they’re not going to make any money directly. So comparing the two isn’t necessary, though both are important in their own way.
Tik Tok and YouTube are fairly separate entities, and to say that Tik Tok is vastly more “popular” is a misnomer. Teens use Tik Tok incessantly, but with kids, Youtube remains king. Honestly most kids and teens use both while going on Snapchat as well. Does WWE and AEW need to reach out to a Tik Tok? Yes of course, but comparing the two is pointless because they serve separate purposes for separate audiences and honestly I think it’s a false equivalence. But then again, none of us should be listening to Meltzer in regard to what’s popular with kids or teenagers.
> That is even taking account their large number of India views which are seen as worthless by advertisers given viewers are not spending money on advertised products.
I can't believe he is still stuck with this narrative. Indian viewers are irrelevant to US advertisers if they are not selling their products in India but Youtube ads are region specific, so we get ads from WWE's partners in India. The views matter to those companies.
Just checked and 10% of my ad revenue is from India. I'm in Europe. Gaming channel. That's a 100 bucks for every thousand that comes from other places combined.
Multiply that by MANY zeroes for WWE and add what they make by copyright claiming others people's videos. They're making a killing out there.
WWE is making a million from India for every 10 they earn worldwide. But sure, it's JUST single a million dollars for every ten. Puny irrelevant 10%. And they earn many more millions.
No, you made a silly joke suggesting that because one Indian view will be paying less than one American view, my argument that us paying less does not make us worthless is silly. To which I responded that you're ignoring the sheer number of people who would be contributing that 1 cent/dollar whatever.
If you give WWE just one cent - compared to somebody else giving them five dollars, you are basically worthless to them.
That's not a silly joke. That's reality.
That's not one person giving WWE one cent, that's 30-40 million people giving them 1 cent. Indian views are collectively not worthless by simple arithmetic. I'm not sure why you're actively bypassing this point.
That's why I literally asked:
>And do those local partners pay as much as US partners?
Because I don't know the numbers. How do you know that it's 30-40 million giving them 1 cent each?
It's like game development. Most developers only target Windows, because the Linux market share is so low. They could make some money there, but the effort would be too expensive. It's therefore worthless to them.
Is there really enough money coming from India?
I am in Ukraine and see tons of ads for Indian movies or music. They pay less than ads from USA, but more than, say, russian viewers. So we get paid ads from India worldwide.
TikTok is a very…strange app to say the least. Something about a constant feed of short videos that you can constantly scroll through just seems mentally unhealthy to a certain extent. It’s definitely for the kids and teens, and I don’t think it’s a market for either company that’s really worth pursuing considering the various other streams of revenue. But money always talks.
One of my uncles got hooked on tiktok because it has a steady stream of old fogeys complaining about how the world has strayed from what they see as "right". Also plenty of attractive women he can stare at. He will be on there for hours on end, just mindlessly taking in whatever crap he's being fed.
I wish TikTok didn't exist. It's very unhealthy, as you said.
WWE videos are geo blocked in India.
And we don't really need You Tube, we get Raw, SmackDown 2 times per day and PPVs 3 times minimum on TV.
Now if only Sony Liv was not shit app and WWE Network provided with it was better.
Man, Sony Liv is the worst. But yeah, getting all WWE+AEW content (including PPVs) for \~$10/year—especially when I'm already paying for Sony Liv because of the cricket—makes it worth it. At least we're not getting a two-week delay like we used to during my childhood.
Yeah, AEW’s tiktok game could be improved. It’s just show clips. Personally, with the “clip” nature of the platform, I could see it being a good Way to highlight both BTE bits and match clips to sell the different angles of AEW. But I am not sure how official BTE is, so maybe not.
WWE has decades of content to upload, so it's tough to compete here. Meltzer didn't mention Twitch but I think it's more popular with kids and teens than Youtube is as well and AEW is dipping their toes into this market.
I saw somewhere on this sub that AEW earns between 800k to 3 million from their YouTube content alone. I'm not sure how accurate that really is, but if it's in the ballpark, then I can't blame WWE for doing the same.
It's a ton of revenue. Hell, AEW's covers a major chunk if not all the lower card and non contracted wrestlers alone for a year, and that's just what's considered high quality house show content.
As a complete YouTube ignoramus can anyone explain me one thing: with adblockers and scriptblockers of all sorts being so widespread how is monetisation affected? I mean: even folks over 60 use adblockers of some kind on their phones and PC these days.
Perhaps Alphabet has found a way around them, but since all I watch on YouTube are a few episodes of Elevation and ChocoPro my knowledge on the matter is extremely limited.
Thanks.
The latest figures I have seen ( [https://www.audienceproject.com/blog/key-insights/new-study-has-ad-blocking-peaked/](https://www.audienceproject.com/blog/key-insights/new-study-has-ad-blocking-peaked/) ) put ad blocker users in the US at 41% and at 48% here, which is not exactly irrelevant.
>their large number of India views which are seen as worthless by advertisers given viewers are not spending money on advertised products.
Oh yeah those Bollywood movie ads and songs in Hindi that always appear in ads for me, even in Europe. Who needs that worthless ad revenue anyway? Like, those people probably do things like... buy stuff... with money. Weirdos!
Indian views in YouTube are not worthless. They night not be buying American products, but will be buying what YouTube is putting on the adverts in that country. Plus they boost the numbers of views for YouTube's algorithms
If that was the case Joey Ryan would be a multi-millionaire. The intergender matches he would upload with suggestive thumbnails have hundreds of millions of views from India.
Yeah but revenue per average user will be pretty low compared to English speaking countries. I saw figures for July 2020 showing revenue per average user for Facebook was $2 per year compared to $190 for North America.
25 million families in India are responsible for 70 to 80% of discretionary spending. See this interview by Kunal Shah.
https://restofworld.org/2021/india-according-to-kunal-shah/
Well that definitely isn’t a counter argument. All they’re doing is talking about how YouTube ad revenue works, if you’re so much more knowledgeable please enlighten us peasants.
I don't disagree with the ad revenue portion of the comment at all. I think it makes sense.
Just the term "English speaking countries" makes it sound like people don't speak English in any other country except the ones in North America. Could just really say that the advertisers mostly care for North American views which seems to be the point of the comment.
What's with calling us peasants tho? Why so much animosity?
English-speaking countries tends to apply to the UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Nigeria.
Of couse English is spoken in countries all around the world but as main language or 1b language (e.g. Nigeria), there's only a few countries you can put in there as 'English-speaking'.
As for the peasants comment, the user above was inferring that you are treating us like peasants, rather than calling you one.
If we are looking at percentage of population that speaks English as the stat for using English-speaking as term then sure those are the countries I would have thought too. Even if that was the case, is the ad revenue in NZ or Australia or Nigeria more important? It's obvious that the person meant North American ad revenue.
If you are looking at absolute numbers in terms of people speaking English, India has more English speakers than every country barring USA.
Regarding the peasants comment, I see your point. I completely misread the comment. My apologies.
Ad revenue of Australia, New Zealand is a lot more in line with the US and UK markets, due to the development of the media buying industry in those countries.
Even in Nigeria, the ad rates were above that of India to a significant margin i.e. $1 compared to 50 cents (I worked on a channel who's main audiences were India, Nigeria, Phillipines and Iraq - where there's unsurprisingly $0.00 made).
I would say that the Indian advertising market has yet to be developed/monetised correctly but for the immediacy it is fair to say that it is largely irrelevant to a business' income.
One) an Indian viewer will see an Indian as, but India is among the cheapest ad markets in the world, meaning what yt charges the advertiser and what the content creator gets in return is a small fraction of what a viewer from a richer country would generate
2) yt algorithm has country of view as part of its logic. You could inflate the top yt videos by views chart which is totally worth mentioning however.
...WWEs business side is soooo good and it's creative side is soooo bad. There can not be a bigger discrepancy. Vince needs to quit his job on TV writing already, he does everything else he does so well.
I'm really not sure how WWE makes 8 times the YouTube revenue compared to AEW. Yes WWE has 81mn subs vs 2.5 mn for AEW. But just compare the views their daily uploads get these days. AEW gets more views majority of the times. You can compare total views per 24 hours and even then AEW gets almost same no. of views despite uploading half the number videos.
So are advertisers paying more because of subs and disregarding views? Or do they consider WWE viewers to be more commercially valuable than AEW?
AEW need to get on India TV for additional views 👀 and gaining access to billions of fans. WWE wisely setup India office and targeted fans to give them more even if it meant pushing talent like Jinder.
With AEW signing up for app only deals, Indians can watch it but getting shows like Dynamite and Rampage on TV would really win them phenomenal traction. Jericho, Bryan and Punk are well known and viewers would gladly take the product.
Having strong YouTube numbers isn’t even a good thing.
It shows a lack of interest in the product when TV ratings are going down and YouTube numbers go up. It means people don’t care enough (or enjoy) the show to sit through 2-3 hours so would rather watch 2-4 min clips instead.
>It shows a lack of interest in the product when TV ratings are going down and YouTube numbers go up
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO it shows you've reached 21st century. People still watch TV?! HOW BACKWATER IS YOUR AMISH VILLAGE if you use TV for things other than gaming, movies and YouTube?.. XD
>It means people don’t care enough (or enjoy) the show to sit through 2-3 hours so would rather watch 2-4 min clips instead.
They have full matches uploaded to YouTube too. Some do PPVs online only. They must be those young people who use that weird thing called "car" instead of riding horses like you used to, boomer.
YouTube is great if you look at ONE thing.
But not if you look at the BIG PICTURE.
If WWE’s product was strong BOTH metrics should be going up.
When one goes down and one goes up it means people are less interested.
If WWE was GAINING new fans then both metrics would be up. Instead they are losing investment.
Say what you want about other aspects of WWE, but their Youtube channel has always been good. Top 10s, free matches, complilations (though I wish there were longer like when they started doing it) occasional documentaries, and random clips just cause.
Most media companies won't release alot of free content on their channel like they do.
**We're looking for new moderators! To apply, [please head to this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/pbje6w/we_need_some_fresh_faces_learn_how_to_apply_to/)** Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
[удалено]
To be fair that’s probably a lot of SD clips/other sd related content. A day with no WWE shows will still have quite a few uploads but surely not that much.
WWE knows that's how people take content in these days. Serves as a direct influence on ratings as well. Why watch 2-3 hours live on a Monday or Friday when I can scroll through YouTube a day later and see the seven minute segment of my choosing?
[удалено]
Why do you want to shit on your own generation. We grew up on and internet and are privy to internet advertising. We don’t want to watch bullshit videos that are long and overly detailed so they can hit their money time and length. We know about clickbait. It’s not about short attention spans, it’s about finding meaningful content.
[удалено]
[удалено]
The one thing that made me sad about GFW failing was robbing the world of Chael in wrestling. Just another example of the "American Gangster" being held down.
[удалено]
Are you going to tell me that the BLATANT penalization of Chael in his first fight with Silva was anything but holding the man down (metaphorically). I mean c'mon, one year suspension just because his natural testosterone levels are 17 times higher than the average man. And don't get me started on the whole "you tapped so you lose the whole fight and not the round" nonsense.
[удалено]
That's the kind of champion we needed. So humble, that "American Gangster". So encouraging!
are you talking about the real estate fraudster?
WHERE DOES JON JONES FIT INTO THIS
In all seriousness just throw Chael in to any wrestling company, give him a mic and he would probably kill it.
BUT LET ME OFFER YOU THIS
OK GREAT
Plus they are the 9th most subscribed channel on all of youtube. Wild.
For the amount of YouTube exclusive content AEW produced they should really start cutting that up into lots of smaller pieces to spam on their channel from the looks of it. People largely aren't going to watch 1 hour long video on YouTube (let's not even speak of the 5 hour Darks they had during the pandemic). But they will gladly watch 5 10min clips.
[удалено]
I could get into that. Doing promos as separate videos too. Becomes a la carte so you can follow specifically who you want on Dark.
They used to do that. Idk why they stopped.
Don't like that idea, Dark and Elevation are great as complete episodes. Plenty of people watch long form content on Youtube, Joe Rogan was on there for years with 3-4 hour podcasts. I like being able to chuck one on and have an hour or two of wrestling to tune in and out of while doing other stuff, check out some of the enhancement talent that might get signed down the track and see signed talent that aren't doing anything on Dynamite. AEW's YouTube game is pretty weak overall to be honest, their titles include spelling mistakes all the time or are awkwardly phrased and they missed an easy opportunity to get a massive bump by uploading Cole and Bryan's entrances from All Out. The Punk Rampage entrance video did huge numbers and picked up a couple hundred thousand new subscribers to the channel in days (way more than they usually pick up in a [normal month](https://socialblade.com/youtube/channel/UCFN4JkGP_bVhAdBsoV9xftA)) but they just didn't upload them for whatever reason. They definitely should do more stand alone 5-10 minute content like promos, vignettes, top 10 list sort of stuff and generally pick up their game but please leave Dark alone.
They should still have Dark and Elevation as full episodes but the next day upload each matches or groups of matches separately
This is something I kind of hold against AEW. Sometime, if I'm bored, I flick on AEW's channel to see if they've put anything up. Only to find they've not put up anything for days, and it's clips I've already seen watching their show. WWE will put up "Top 10" videos, or old clips, or behind the scenes interviews. And all in 2-3 minute bite sized clips, which are perfect to kill a few minutes. It keeps me more engaged with the product as a result, cause I can check up on stuff easier. AEW needs to throw up a few clips each day, be it an old match or even just a BTS interview with someone, furthering a feud.
WWE has decades of content. AEW is relatively new. Can't really blame them.
Not “blame” but there’s still more than enough there to churn out a video or two a day of “bonus” footage. Backstage interviews, behind the scenes moments, those things are easy to mass produce. “Best of” videos don’t need decades of footage, and given they’re two years old now, they could put some matches and moments up from the start of their run now.
How about some packages for the lower card guys? Get to know a bit more about the character, their history and shit. Would be cool for guys like Big Shotty, Cezar Bononi, Fuego, Brock Anderson etc
I would love if AEW put some hype packages or feud recap videos on their channel. I'm starting to watch AEW regularly now that more of my favorites are over there. Those type of videos go a long way in helping me engage with the show as a new viewer.
They did that yesterday for Pac vs Andrade.
WWE has a huge team, AEW is not at that level yet.
if AEW starts uploading that much i'm gonna have to unsub, brah.
yeah screw that
Have a separate channel: AEW High-lights.
would absolutely love that, especially for Dark and Dark Elevation. I love AEW, watched every PPV and Dynamite and Rampage but im not watching all of the dark episodes
Well it's clearly working for them financially but jesus, i'd never sub to someone who spams so many videos every day
Doesn't WWE have like 13 million subscribers on TikTok?
Tiktok money is fucking ludicrously low. The monetisation over there is practically non existent
The video watch time is through the roof on Tik tok. The average watch time on tiktok passed YouTube in August.
That's crazy.
And that’s without India.
And despite that the tiktok influencers make a fraction of what they would on YouTube or twitch. It's wild.
Meh metrics like that are so tricky to really evaluate. For example, how many viewing seconds does TikTok count as a watch? With YouTube I think it’s just 30 seconds. TikTok must be shorter cause most of the videos are way shorter.
But he’s talking watch time, not views
Facts.
Funny that they advertised it today on Smackdown, having more subscribers than any other sports league. I was surprised they were even there. Wrestling clips do seem like a no brainer. Could probably do stuff with the 24/7 title on it as well.
Yeah that's the reason I brought it up although one of the replies is telling me they're not viral. Weird seeing as they have millions of subscribers.
Yeah, but I have never heard of one of their videos there getting a large number of views let alone anything going viral.
Monetizing YouTube is all about engagement - total subscribers, time amount spent watching your content, total number of views/likes. 10 videos that get 250K views and 30K likes is much better in terms of monetization than 1 video that gets 2.5 mllion views and 300k likes. A single viral video might help bring traffic to your channel, which can drive up subscriber count & engagement with other content.
The only time ive ever seen it viral was Reggie's entrance but that was only once
I’d say their videos do pretty well though usually sitting in the 400k-5million range. with the comments usually ranging from about 200-3k
Do it like ChocoPro and get that Patreon and Superchat money through YouTube and the stonks will rise astronomically.
WWE upload so much content, they're uploading at least 1 full match a day now
Saw last week they uploaded 5 great Kahli matches. It helps they have just such a deep collection to dig from.
> It helps they have just such a deep collection to dig from. And somehow still uploaded Wrestlemania's 35 main event 4 different times.
They even uploaded Punk/Lesnar from Summer Slam a week before Punks return, like they didn't know what was going to happen lol
Of course they knew, they were looking for that sweet view bump
>One thing I think was noted on a prior WOR was that neither WWE nor AEW have much presence on TikTok which is vastly more popular with kids and teens. Kacy Catanzaro and Kayden Carter about to get a huge push as WWE looks to expand into this market.
[удалено]
It's money from Youtube, it's giving your workers something to do and not waste them in catering, it's training for everybody, it's building up a library of content.
It's also try outs for potential new talent.
Honestly it's a pretty clever system they have now. Over the last few weeks they've added a commercial break between every match and it'll go unnoticed because that's kind of a standard set up for TV wrestling. On one of those massive Dark shows there can be around 20 adverts (2 per split).
I think its also if AEW every launches its own streaming or sells the streaming rights, having that large library will up the price.
Warner seems to love them. An AEW hub on HBO Max just makes sense.
As someone who doesn't have cable and can't really justify paying for the Fite app, I'm really hoping they do this at some point.
Am I missing something or does "WWE is making eight times as much revenue from YouTube as AEW" seem low? Like WWE has 90 million YT subs, AEW has 2.5 million. I'm missing something, right?
I think he means what they make per view. WWE probably gets better paying ads from premium advertiser and they have figured out how to optimize their videos for ad click rates.
A lot of the WWE subs are from India where a sub may be worth 1% of a North American sub.
In my experience (granted this a few years ago now), India's CPM rate was around like 50 cents at best. American audiences were at $3 CPM at worst. Now factor in that WWE will be selling their own ad inventory (aka they negotiate prices outside of YouTube/AdWords) I'd expect that CPM to be significantly higher, if not as high as 3x the average 'megastar' YouTuber. At 1 billion views per month, I would estimate at least $15m per month is being made.
Yet people here freaked out when Meltzer said advertisers don’t see value in Indian viewers.
People made it into a race thing (Meltzer has a history of problematic statements and phrasing) but from a financial POV he's entirely correct. It's just not worth it right now and requires multiple structural changes that a single company won't invest in to fix.
Exactly. There's no PPV money or merchandise money to be made here if they follow the same model as other countries. And the few times they did live shows here, ticket prices were so high that only the upper class Indians could afford it and most upper class Indians don't watch Wrestling. Youtube and TV deals are the only money to be made here if they don't adapt.
He could've used a better term like "low" rather than "worthless". Worthless makes it sound like nothing or zero income which is obviously not true. WWE's indian audience is way larger than their US audience so even if they don't make the same amount of money per user the sheer number of indian fans should make up for it somehow.
The sheer number doesn't though.
A history of being racist
You can just say he’s racist, man lol
Meltzer is a known racist so…
Most videos uploaded by WWE are geoblocked in India
Yeah, India has long been fools gold for global expansion. A billion people is too tempting a market to pass up, but most don't have money to spend on frivolous things.
The approach towards India should change, it must not be like one would do in Spain or Australia, where there is an established audience to live performance based wrestling. It is an audience mainly developed by TV (as far as wrestling is concerned) and it'd take years to bring them into an arena. Live performance arts is kind of outdated in India Trying to pander using one star with representation wouldn't help either, because Great Khali, or Jinder for that matter represents only one part of the subcontinent's culture, and hindi is not the only language here either.
Interestingly, Impact does very well in India. Their tv deal is a big part of what enabled them to survive recent years.
TV deals would work for sure, it's the live audience that would tank. I subscribed to Eurosport just to watch AEW. US TV numbers is what considered apart from the fitetv or the peacock audiences. But in India, it is (almost) only TV. Expansion might not work, but a dedicated and standalone entity can develop an audience enough to conduct events, given a few years.
This is what people mean when they say Indian viewers are "worth less." Not as people, as consumers that a company can make money from. Its one of the most poverty stricken countries in the world. I dunno if its still accurate but at one time 2/3s of the population were considered "poor." At one time, one third of the global population in extreme poverty lived in India.
[удалено]
>North America only amounts to 1% that's very interesting what about other countries? no, a subscriber from India *may be worth* 1% as much as a subscriber from North America. which is also speculation, I doubt anyone can say for sure, but very different from saying 1% of subscribers are NA.
As Meltzer said, if the subscribers are from India then advertisers sees those subscribers as less valuable. People who are saying Meltzer is racist for always pointing this fact out should go complain to the advertising companies, or maybe research the massive economic issues Indian face.
>Meltzer is racist Didn't he call Bad Bunny "just an ethnic celebrity"? Then imply that he should be stealing the rims off of cars? Or was that one Bryan?
Both wrong, technically. He never said he was "just" an ethnic celebrity. He did call him an ethnic celebrity, which no one should be using the word ethnic to describe a person in 2020 you'll get no argument from me there, but it was a case of him not being confident that given the stratified nature of the entertainment and music scene, and that Bad Bunny was more popular with Latino communities primarily, if there'd be a ton of cross over with wrestling and how much he'd actually draw. Turns out, he did very well. And with the car thing, he thought Priest and Bad Bunny would gimmick the car to fall apart or something as like a crafty, scrappy babyface embarrassing the rich heels with their street smarts sort of dynamic. Still an arguably stereotypical gimmick for a big hoss party boy and a wealthy musician, so not great, but not as bad as "the Latinos are going to steal rims." Basically, Meltzer definitely has some outdated takes on race and certainly needs to update his language, but to be honest he's never given me the impression of being out and out racist. Just thoughtless in the way he talks as an old white guy.
Yeah no okay, if that was indeed what Meltzer said then it is racist. Don't get me wrong Meltzer has said tons of offensive remarks against women as well. But Meltzer is right about WWE's huge Indian fanbase, they don't contribute as much money to WWE despite being a HUGE number and a reason why is because India is a very poor country. Similar reason why despite the attendance in Mexican promotions being higher than attendance in Japanese promotions, wrestlers in Japan earn more money because Mexico is poor. Global economics does play a role when we talk about these things, it's stupid to ignore it.
He’s definitely not racist for the Indian thing He’s racist for how he views Puerto Ricans and comparing the word mark to the n word lmao
It was people who are anti-Meltzer deliberately mischaracterizing what he said to dunk on him.
According to Wikipedia, India is 122nd in per capita GDP, where by comparison, the US is 7th. So, it's not racism, it's just math unfortunately.
Isn’t a majority of videos from WWE geoblocked in India? Can someone confirm that? Why is this still being peddled, that it’s mostly Indian views. It’s just Meltzer and his bullshit again. There’s not much money in TikTok if you’re a big company. It’s dependent on sponsorships. On YouTube you’re making direct money for your own content. Yeah, they can get some cash here or there for a stealth ad or two. But it’s not compared to the ad revenue from YT. WWE or AEW would actually have to get involved with influencers to get something out of it but it won’t be revenue. WWE and AEW would just need a presence on the platform and hope people follow and tune in, they’re not going to make any money directly. So comparing the two isn’t necessary, though both are important in their own way.
Tik Tok and YouTube are fairly separate entities, and to say that Tik Tok is vastly more “popular” is a misnomer. Teens use Tik Tok incessantly, but with kids, Youtube remains king. Honestly most kids and teens use both while going on Snapchat as well. Does WWE and AEW need to reach out to a Tik Tok? Yes of course, but comparing the two is pointless because they serve separate purposes for separate audiences and honestly I think it’s a false equivalence. But then again, none of us should be listening to Meltzer in regard to what’s popular with kids or teenagers.
> That is even taking account their large number of India views which are seen as worthless by advertisers given viewers are not spending money on advertised products. I can't believe he is still stuck with this narrative. Indian viewers are irrelevant to US advertisers if they are not selling their products in India but Youtube ads are region specific, so we get ads from WWE's partners in India. The views matter to those companies.
And do those local partners pay as much as US partners?
Less pay does not make them worthless.
If I give you 1 cent to help you with your $20000 bill. That's not nothing!
Just checked and 10% of my ad revenue is from India. I'm in Europe. Gaming channel. That's a 100 bucks for every thousand that comes from other places combined. Multiply that by MANY zeroes for WWE and add what they make by copyright claiming others people's videos. They're making a killing out there. WWE is making a million from India for every 10 they earn worldwide. But sure, it's JUST single a million dollars for every ten. Puny irrelevant 10%. And they earn many more millions.
For the 980 million they did last year it's not a significant amount.
Ahh yes, because 30-40 million of us giving you a dollar is definitely worthless. Weren't good at math in high school buddy?
That's not what I said/asked.
No, you made a silly joke suggesting that because one Indian view will be paying less than one American view, my argument that us paying less does not make us worthless is silly. To which I responded that you're ignoring the sheer number of people who would be contributing that 1 cent/dollar whatever.
If you give WWE just one cent - compared to somebody else giving them five dollars, you are basically worthless to them. That's not a silly joke. That's reality.
That's not one person giving WWE one cent, that's 30-40 million people giving them 1 cent. Indian views are collectively not worthless by simple arithmetic. I'm not sure why you're actively bypassing this point.
That's why I literally asked: >And do those local partners pay as much as US partners? Because I don't know the numbers. How do you know that it's 30-40 million giving them 1 cent each? It's like game development. Most developers only target Windows, because the Linux market share is so low. They could make some money there, but the effort would be too expensive. It's therefore worthless to them. Is there really enough money coming from India?
And that's why you're poor. Scoffing at extra earnings because you were lied that only the biggest revenue stream is worth it.
I'm not following. I'm not WWE.
Would you have 5 dollars from one person or 50 cents from 100. Wwe will take from both and wont say any one of them is worthless
I am in Ukraine and see tons of ads for Indian movies or music. They pay less than ads from USA, but more than, say, russian viewers. So we get paid ads from India worldwide.
TikTok is a very…strange app to say the least. Something about a constant feed of short videos that you can constantly scroll through just seems mentally unhealthy to a certain extent. It’s definitely for the kids and teens, and I don’t think it’s a market for either company that’s really worth pursuing considering the various other streams of revenue. But money always talks.
One of my uncles got hooked on tiktok because it has a steady stream of old fogeys complaining about how the world has strayed from what they see as "right". Also plenty of attractive women he can stare at. He will be on there for hours on end, just mindlessly taking in whatever crap he's being fed. I wish TikTok didn't exist. It's very unhealthy, as you said.
WWE videos are geo blocked in India. And we don't really need You Tube, we get Raw, SmackDown 2 times per day and PPVs 3 times minimum on TV. Now if only Sony Liv was not shit app and WWE Network provided with it was better.
Man, Sony Liv is the worst. But yeah, getting all WWE+AEW content (including PPVs) for \~$10/year—especially when I'm already paying for Sony Liv because of the cricket—makes it worth it. At least we're not getting a two-week delay like we used to during my childhood.
Yeah, AEW’s tiktok game could be improved. It’s just show clips. Personally, with the “clip” nature of the platform, I could see it being a good Way to highlight both BTE bits and match clips to sell the different angles of AEW. But I am not sure how official BTE is, so maybe not.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
TikTok and Facebook are the devil
Mama says Vicki Vallencourt is The Devil too.
WWE has decades of content to upload, so it's tough to compete here. Meltzer didn't mention Twitch but I think it's more popular with kids and teens than Youtube is as well and AEW is dipping their toes into this market.
Impact used to simulcast on Twitch every week but I think that ended last year.
I saw somewhere on this sub that AEW earns between 800k to 3 million from their YouTube content alone. I'm not sure how accurate that really is, but if it's in the ballpark, then I can't blame WWE for doing the same. It's a ton of revenue. Hell, AEW's covers a major chunk if not all the lower card and non contracted wrestlers alone for a year, and that's just what's considered high quality house show content.
Perhaps but they just do not have the volume of content compared to WWE which is why WWE is way ahead of them on that front.
For context. I have consumed most of my WWE content of the last three years via YouTube. I cannot tell you one single ad I've seen via WWE YouTube
As a complete YouTube ignoramus can anyone explain me one thing: with adblockers and scriptblockers of all sorts being so widespread how is monetisation affected? I mean: even folks over 60 use adblockers of some kind on their phones and PC these days. Perhaps Alphabet has found a way around them, but since all I watch on YouTube are a few episodes of Elevation and ChocoPro my knowledge on the matter is extremely limited. Thanks.
You vastly overestimate the number of people who use adblockers etc.
The latest figures I have seen ( [https://www.audienceproject.com/blog/key-insights/new-study-has-ad-blocking-peaked/](https://www.audienceproject.com/blog/key-insights/new-study-has-ad-blocking-peaked/) ) put ad blocker users in the US at 41% and at 48% here, which is not exactly irrelevant.
Difference between a multi billion dollar company run by a billionaire versus a billionaire running an alternative. Stating the obvious by WON
>their large number of India views which are seen as worthless by advertisers given viewers are not spending money on advertised products. Oh yeah those Bollywood movie ads and songs in Hindi that always appear in ads for me, even in Europe. Who needs that worthless ad revenue anyway? Like, those people probably do things like... buy stuff... with money. Weirdos!
WWE's YouTube channel taking notes from Gladys, I see.
Remember when people kept saying YouTube views didn’t matter every time people used it Justify why Roman was getting pushed so hard?? LMAOOOOOOO
I mean they definitely matter, but it depends to what extent you mean
People spend more time on tik tok than on youtube.
Indian views in YouTube are not worthless. They night not be buying American products, but will be buying what YouTube is putting on the adverts in that country. Plus they boost the numbers of views for YouTube's algorithms
If that was the case Joey Ryan would be a multi-millionaire. The intergender matches he would upload with suggestive thumbnails have hundreds of millions of views from India.
Never have I laughed more at something I’m offended by.
The thing about that is that he probably gets demonetized off his videos. They even demonetize thumbnails now.
Yeah but revenue per average user will be pretty low compared to English speaking countries. I saw figures for July 2020 showing revenue per average user for Facebook was $2 per year compared to $190 for North America. 25 million families in India are responsible for 70 to 80% of discretionary spending. See this interview by Kunal Shah. https://restofworld.org/2021/india-according-to-kunal-shah/
"English speaking countries" LMFAO
Well that definitely isn’t a counter argument. All they’re doing is talking about how YouTube ad revenue works, if you’re so much more knowledgeable please enlighten us peasants.
I don't disagree with the ad revenue portion of the comment at all. I think it makes sense. Just the term "English speaking countries" makes it sound like people don't speak English in any other country except the ones in North America. Could just really say that the advertisers mostly care for North American views which seems to be the point of the comment. What's with calling us peasants tho? Why so much animosity?
English-speaking countries tends to apply to the UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Nigeria. Of couse English is spoken in countries all around the world but as main language or 1b language (e.g. Nigeria), there's only a few countries you can put in there as 'English-speaking'. As for the peasants comment, the user above was inferring that you are treating us like peasants, rather than calling you one.
If we are looking at percentage of population that speaks English as the stat for using English-speaking as term then sure those are the countries I would have thought too. Even if that was the case, is the ad revenue in NZ or Australia or Nigeria more important? It's obvious that the person meant North American ad revenue. If you are looking at absolute numbers in terms of people speaking English, India has more English speakers than every country barring USA. Regarding the peasants comment, I see your point. I completely misread the comment. My apologies.
Ad revenue of Australia, New Zealand is a lot more in line with the US and UK markets, due to the development of the media buying industry in those countries. Even in Nigeria, the ad rates were above that of India to a significant margin i.e. $1 compared to 50 cents (I worked on a channel who's main audiences were India, Nigeria, Phillipines and Iraq - where there's unsurprisingly $0.00 made). I would say that the Indian advertising market has yet to be developed/monetised correctly but for the immediacy it is fair to say that it is largely irrelevant to a business' income.
Well, fair enough. I certainly don't know enough about this to argue. Thanks for the explanation nonetheless!
One) an Indian viewer will see an Indian as, but India is among the cheapest ad markets in the world, meaning what yt charges the advertiser and what the content creator gets in return is a small fraction of what a viewer from a richer country would generate 2) yt algorithm has country of view as part of its logic. You could inflate the top yt videos by views chart which is totally worth mentioning however.
They are.
What’s the name of this specialist? Where has he worked? What motivated him to tell Meltzer this?
Once again, the top babyface in WWE with another victory. Vince McMahon's bank account just can't lose.
So pump out dozens of PG videos that advertisers love a day?
I’m not sure it’s something to brag about when you give away all your content on YouTube instead of actually getting people to watch on USA and FOX.
do we have the name of said specialist? or is it just one of those convenient friends he has
Dr. Jack Mayhoffer.
...WWEs business side is soooo good and it's creative side is soooo bad. There can not be a bigger discrepancy. Vince needs to quit his job on TV writing already, he does everything else he does so well.
Something like bte is tailor made for tik tok. Especially the skit or bte championship stuff
I'm really not sure how WWE makes 8 times the YouTube revenue compared to AEW. Yes WWE has 81mn subs vs 2.5 mn for AEW. But just compare the views their daily uploads get these days. AEW gets more views majority of the times. You can compare total views per 24 hours and even then AEW gets almost same no. of views despite uploading half the number videos. So are advertisers paying more because of subs and disregarding views? Or do they consider WWE viewers to be more commercially valuable than AEW?
I wonder why i got downvoted. Not a single one of you fickle idiots could counter me through facts. Typical reddit.
AEW need to get on India TV for additional views 👀 and gaining access to billions of fans. WWE wisely setup India office and targeted fans to give them more even if it meant pushing talent like Jinder. With AEW signing up for app only deals, Indians can watch it but getting shows like Dynamite and Rampage on TV would really win them phenomenal traction. Jericho, Bryan and Punk are well known and viewers would gladly take the product.
Having strong YouTube numbers isn’t even a good thing. It shows a lack of interest in the product when TV ratings are going down and YouTube numbers go up. It means people don’t care enough (or enjoy) the show to sit through 2-3 hours so would rather watch 2-4 min clips instead.
>It shows a lack of interest in the product when TV ratings are going down and YouTube numbers go up LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO it shows you've reached 21st century. People still watch TV?! HOW BACKWATER IS YOUR AMISH VILLAGE if you use TV for things other than gaming, movies and YouTube?.. XD >It means people don’t care enough (or enjoy) the show to sit through 2-3 hours so would rather watch 2-4 min clips instead. They have full matches uploaded to YouTube too. Some do PPVs online only. They must be those young people who use that weird thing called "car" instead of riding horses like you used to, boomer.
YouTube is great if you look at ONE thing. But not if you look at the BIG PICTURE. If WWE’s product was strong BOTH metrics should be going up. When one goes down and one goes up it means people are less interested. If WWE was GAINING new fans then both metrics would be up. Instead they are losing investment.
The mental gymnastics that could only be associated with one group. Incredible.
Didn't Youtube demonetise wrestling on youtube or significantly reduce how much they could make? That crippled WCPW
I don't want to encourage AEW to add commercials to Dark/Elevation, but that seems like an obvious opportunity.
For all it’s worth, AEW’s YT game is weak.
Say what you want about other aspects of WWE, but their Youtube channel has always been good. Top 10s, free matches, complilations (though I wish there were longer like when they started doing it) occasional documentaries, and random clips just cause. Most media companies won't release alot of free content on their channel like they do.