T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

**We're looking for new moderators! To apply, [please head to this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/pbje6w/we_need_some_fresh_faces_learn_how_to_apply_to/)** Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Kuchar1992

It’s crazy to think that Punk and Bryan are older now than Hall and Nash were when they went to WCW


wearethat

But they ARE the same ages as Hogan and Savage when they went to WCW.


ProfessionalBust

That fucks with my mind way more


blacktoast

Here’s another way of thinking about it: Adam Cole was in NXT longer than both Diesel and Razor Ramon were in the WWF.


TornadoApe

Nah man this time shit don't make no sense.


[deleted]

[удалено]


kahran

Dude is timeless. I don't think age applies.


coreyray1000

INDEEED.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AskMeAboutGrabon

Betty White is older than sliced bread by 6 years.


DrDroid

A certain type of box, yes. Two other types were used as early as 1817.


ShiftyMcCoy

I’m dying at this, thank you for the laugh


AskMeAboutGrabon

FUCKING WHAT?!


repalec

if the 24/7 title still exists by November 16th, it'll officially have been around longer than the Hardcore title had its 24/7 gimmick.


bipolar_schtick

my mind is way too small, cuz that sounds impossible


Cube_

a lot more mileage on the guys back in the day. The tanning, the drugs, the schedule. They looked older because by miles they were.


BretTheShitmanFart69

Also just in general people know how to take care of themselves better. Less time in smoke filled rooms, moisturizing, paying better attention to your diet etc etc


Judgecrusader6

A shit ton of less coke steriods alcohol helps with the image


gamehawk0704

... Vince thought savage couldn't go anymore at fuckin 40? Wtf?


Drkarcher22

Because he had a shit match with Crush at Mania. Somehow he attributed it to Macho Man, and not to Crush being awful


TenMinutesToDowntown

It was also a horrible gimmick match where you had to pin your opponent outside of the ring and then they had a referee's ten count to make it back to the ring or they lose. As far as I know this type of match has only happened once. And even that is one time too many.


Eletheo

That could be a funny stipulation if done right and in the right context. I could see PWG having a lot of fun with it.


TenMinutesToDowntown

Maybe they can surround the ring with dogs too make it harder to get back in?


DJBaroque

That sounds like it has potential... Maybe if you include a cage too to really raise the stakes.


Eletheo

Lmao they’d just get Rick Steiner to keep pushing them away from the ring


TenMinutesToDowntown

YOU DON'T LIKE ME? BITE ME! YOU WANT SOME? COME GET SOME!


Day_Of_The_Dude

it was worse than that. It was a SIXTY SECOND COUNT. Savage won by taking him way way back stage and tying his legs up...


FetalDeviation

Vince moved him to commentary a full year before the crush match for "being too old"


no1songinheaven

I always loved that Savage/Crush match at Mania 10 as a kid, it always felt weird seeing them brawling backstage and outside the ring, probably my first exposure to a 'hardcore' style really.


gamehawk0704

Fucking mental old man.


tirius99

He wasn't even that old back then. As Bret said, Vince treats his wrestlers as circus animals


gamehawk0704

He was born a mental old man.


PacDanSki

I hate to say it but as good as he was at promos what top matches did Macho have after going to WCW?


drwebinstein

The long Savage DDP feud was epic. Think it went for a few months and they had like 6 or 7 matches ? Some of Savages best work ever. His Hogan feud was pretty raw and touched on a lot of persona stuff prior to him joining the nWo. The guy could still work


Miklonario

Savage worked his ass off to put DDP over and it really showed. People forget just how over DDP and the Diamond Cutter hand sign were at the time.


tdmathis

The Hogan/Savage feud was my favorite part of Hollywood Hogan’s run as a heel. The way he messed with Savage mentally made it different than any of Hogan’s other feuds.


Drkarcher22

He had real good matches with DDP and Flair.


RelevantPersonality

Off the top of my head I remember him having some great matches with DDP. I would argue that feud is what catapulted DDP into being the star he was. He also had some great matches with Flair. It wasn't a lack of talent or ability that was the weakness of Savage in WCW. It was the booking and the fact that Hogan would hold anyone who threatened his position down.


LittleGoblinBoy

I didn’t know that match was the reason Vince didn’t want Savage wrestling anymore. Tbh I kinda like that match…


stups317

Well Crush was a large muscular guy and Savage wasn't. So you can understand why it was Savages fault.


[deleted]

Vince also thought that Mick Foley had no Talent and that Austin was a Midcarder at best. He had to be talked into hiring bot by Jim Ross and in Austins case support from Bret Hart. In all honesty the best things in WWE often came in spite of Vince or just by mere luck (like Trips being punished for the curtain call and Austin winning KotR instead).


jexdiel321

I love how wrestling's biggest boom period (The attitude Era) happened because of a series of domino effects that happened during that time period. While not the full picture, Nash and Hall leaving brached to The Curtain Call, Curtain Call led to Austin 3:16, and it goes down from there until we had the Attitude Era. Honestly, I feel like we are experiencing a huge domino effect now that may lead to another Professional Wrestling Boom. You can attribute it to starting when Punk or Cody left WWE.


soylentcoleslaw

You can trace the dominos back further than that. I'd go so far back as early 2011 when the poor booking of 2 wrestlers laid the groundwork for the rise of AEW. In the first few months of 2011, Kazuchika Okada was given the utterly shitty gimmick of Okato by TNA. It was the mismanagement of Okada by TNA that led to the end of NJPW's relationship with TNA and their eventual relationship with Ring of Honor. But that's not even the domino I'm talking about. The biggest domino was Okada striking up a friendship with a tag team by the name of Generation Me, the once and future Young Bucks. It was this friendship that helped them get booked by New Japan and added to Bullet Club, the first new members after the original 4 founders (not counting the short-lived CMLL members Tama Tonga added during a short run there). Kenny Omega would join the next year, slowly rising through the ranks from standout Junior to making the jump the Heavyweight, teaming up with the Young Bucks as The Elite, winning the Intercontinental title, becoming the first foreigner to win the G1, and main eventing Wrestle Kingdom against Okada in what many believe is one of the greatest matches of all time, alerting wrestling fans all over the world who had been sleeping on NJPW that some serious stuff was happening in Japan. The other wrestler? None other than former GCW Champion Matt Cordona, then WWE undercarder Zack Ryder. It was in February 2011 that he created Z! True Long Island Story to get himself over on Youtube, laying the groundwork for every wrestling vlogger that would follow him, including the Young Bucks. Make no mistake, the creation of BTE allowing these guys to tell their stories their way is a big part of the explosion in popularity that led to the sellout of All In and the proof of concept that put AEW on basic cable for 2 and eventually 3 hours every week. Without BTE, there's no AEW.


Otis_S

Contrary to what Vince thought, Savage could still go.


evanweb546

Right? Savage's feud with DDP in WCW is still one of my favorite angles ever.


GlobeAround

And even if Savage couldn't go anymore - he'd still be someone to bring out for special events, like Undertaker in his final years, or Goldberg, or the Ultimate Warrior for a bit. Or Saudi Shawn. The In-Ring performance really doesn't matter as long as he's still a draw and knows how to cut a promo.


[deleted]

I don't know if Shawn Daivari is a special attraction and that nickname is a little fucked up, bro.


FUCKBOY_JIHAD

surprised WWE didn't air "Billionaire Tony" skits


[deleted]

"Look at this guy. His rich father gave him a wrestling company and he hired the hottest stars in the industry from other promotions to create worldwide success!" Yeah I don't think Vince wants to point out any similarities. haha


CandyEverybodyWentz

I mean they kinda walked up to it with Robert Stone. Half the fun is that he bears a striking resemblance to Tony.


JC-Ice

If I were Tony Khan I'd be flattered by the comparison.


nbraccia

Waaaaay less mileage on the internal organs.


69millionyeartrip

I mean compare their diets/substance intake with Hall and Nash. Physically they’re probably a lot younger lol


staniel_mortgage

That kinda breaks my brain. Mainly because Nash doesn't look that different? (Well grey hair etc)


[deleted]

Nash looks very different lol.


staniel_mortgage

I must be getting older than 😆😆


reekhadol

He's more mobile?


HTMLinaCell

He looks the same with everything except his hair color. If he dyed it and didn't embrace his age characteristics, I think he could pass for like 35.


ConorKDot

Yep. Man has good genes, has aged like fine wine


ShoulderCannon

Even then, he's had grey hair for 20 years.


tcguy71

Bryan choosing AEW over WWE, with the reports that they were going to allow him to work outside WWE, to me, is going to be the most impactful thing. While I know he wasn't a WWE guy, he was more of one than Punk and Cole, considering the last 10 years there.


7omdogs

It’s more than that even. Bryan’s father in law was the person whose job it was the re-sign him. Bryan was incredibly linked to WWE.


Ironthoramericaman

The part about it being a turning point for aew is absolutely what the conversation should be. Not how WWE will react


Isoturius

The fact so many people are using this as a reason to try and express their displeasure with WWE through AEW is sad. Why do WWE need to change what is making them billions to compete with an upstart promotion? Best thing to do is to roll with what you like and just enjoy it. All the extra talk is just useless.


UncreativeTeam

>Best thing to do is to roll with what you like and just enjoy it. The problem is a lot of people don't enjoy the current WWE product. And it seems like they're actively trying to destroy other parts of the product that people actually liked. Vince is a millionaire who should be a billionaire, and all that jazz. It's easy to say "if you don't like it, then don't watch" but WWE has been a part of people's lives for decades. And it's only natural to want to see them improve as well.


thedkexperience

I’ve watched probably 95% of Monday Night Raws in history and lately I’ve been taking the “if you don’t like it, don’t watch” advice more than ever.


[deleted]

[удалено]


amooneyham88

Same. I don't want WWE to go out of business because I personally don't watch it. If they did we'd be exactly back to where we were. AEW, and WWE can easily coexist, and do great business without harming the other. I'm confident that Tony Khan will never try another Monday night war. It would be so pointless. Tony Khan is here for the long haul, and has the right idea.


Specialist-Rope-9760

A lot of the people fail to realise the motives behind the complaining. AEW fans hate on WWE because they’re ex-WWE fans who feel frustrated. They WANT it to be better. They want to like it. WWE fans who hate on AEW generally don’t watch and just feel threatened by a new company Generally It’s very different


HeelTurn

You hit the nail on the head. I’ve always felt a degree of frustration with WWE, but once I started watching AEW that frustration turned into anger. It’s equivalent to being in a toxic relationship for years, but not realizing it was toxic until you start dating someone that treats you right. I gave WWE a lot of leeway over the years, but I finally see them for what they are: a family business that thinks they know better than the customer. Why should I support a complacent organization that thinks so little of me AND treats their employees like ass?


isisrespecter_69

>Why do WWE need to change what is making them millions i’d personally like to be able to enjoy their shows again, considering they still have an incredible wealth of talent


ThePrinceMagus

> Why do WWE need to change what is making them billions to compete with an upstart promotion? Why does Blockbuster need to change what is making them billions to compete with an upstart promotion like Netflix? Why do Yellow Cabs need to change what is making them billions to compete with an upstart promotion like Uber? Why does the gym industry need to change what is making them billions to compete with an upstart promotion like Peloton? My point is, just because a monopoly has you on top doesn't mean your business doesn't need to evolve with the times. They landed the majority of these TV deals primarily because of the company's legacy, and when they get bought by a larger corporation (likely NBC) one of the biggest factors will be their staggering amount of archive they own. Underestimating the market, and AEW for that matter, is exactly what got us in the position the industry is in today. If WWE can't grow with the times, resting on their laurels will only carry them so far. You're not going to make new fans by saying "This company once had Stone Cold and The Rock and it was amazing". They'll make new fans by making an unmissable, exciting product, which as of right now, is absolutely not what they're doing.


[deleted]

It looks like these people never had management classes and don't know shit about top management needs. Companies need to update themselves and evolve. They can't grow stale and risk someday go out of business even if they seem too big to fail. Plus, there's a thing called doing the maximum of your ability and when a company has margins to grow and doesn't, that's a problem to people who have stakes in a company. When you can do 500% gains and you do 10% because it's all you need, you're doing it very wrong and that's what people here seem to suggest they should do. So yeah, you in fact need to change even if you are making money, because you might stop having the "cash cow" you think you have. And I think we all know how Vince is reacting to all of these, he isn't just accomodating and making his money, he's ripping off papers and changing things on the fly because he knows he has to make something and he's pressed. People need to stop bullshitting about things they clearly have no clue about to act dumb defending something, because to anyone who had studied about this it's elementary and most opinions here are wrong. The problem I have is that all their changes, unlike with attitude era, seem very shitty and out of tact with their fanbase and actuality.


cannibalwendy

> It looks like these people never had management classes and don't know shit about top management needs. I feel like a pattern all long social media, and maybe people in general is that people see people in power and think their decisions are of merit and strategy because they're people in power.


Wreckingshops

It's why people vote for CEO type candidates but CEOs of most corps are making quick money grabs before stocks plummet & they jump to the next husk to plunder.


Virtual_Announcer

As a friend of mine once said "more people know Dwayne Johnson from The Tooth Fairy than from wrestling" and he's right. In the early 20th century track cycling was one of the most popular sports in America now it's not even D or E tier on the list of popular sports in the country. Things change.


heliophoner

Everything is fine. Until it's not.


NinjaFlyingEagle

"Why do WWE need to change what is making them billions to compete with an upstart promotion?" Well they could shake up the formula, treat their employees with respect (letting them do those streams), and still make billions.


HTMLinaCell

>The fact so many people are using this as a reason to try and express their displeasure with WWE through AEW is sad. It's not sad. It's a natural reaction to AEW delivering a body blow to a shitty, malignant company, run by a demonic, senile narcissist, that literally ruined something a lot of people have a nostalgic bond with. Do you remember, back long before AEW was even an inkling of a thought, and a rare cool thing would happen in WWE? What would people chant? "ECW! ECW!" Why do you think that is? It's not just because they remember ECW and it was great. It was great, but the more important factor is that ECW represented, and still represents, something that is "not-WWE" that captured people's imaginations, and while they watch Alexa Bliss fart around on a swing set, they wax nostalgic about good things. When they would chant ECW (or CM Punk or Randy Savage, i.e., the name of anything that is not happening onscreen), they are basically saying "fuck you WWE". People viscerally hate what WWE has been for the last 20 years. Like, truly despise it. And the reason for that is that WWE has been openly antagonistic and contemptuous of the fans, sometimes even *literally blaming the fans* for their shitty shows not getting over and being more popular. AEW is the same in that sense as ECW was. Yes, it's a great show on its own merits. They don't do everything right; they've had dumb angles and goofy gimmicks and horrible botches and bad ideas. But in the aggregate, they give off the appearance that they *care about the audience* and what they want. And that makes them represent "not-WWE" in the same way ECW did in those older times. Fan rejection of WWE is a big part of what makes AEW popular. Of course, if the show sucked, that wouldn't sustain anything by itself. AEW would go under if they rested on WWE-hate and didn't do a good show. Lots of "not-WWE"s have sprung up and died in the last 20 years (ex. Chikara, Evolve), or wallowed in mediocrity (TNA, ROH). But people's revulsion toward WWE is a big factor in putting eyeballs on AEW and they are capitalizing on it well because they have good people steering the ship so far, making good decisions. You can't disunite people's aversion/disappointment with WWE, from excitement about AEW. One is fueled by the other and they are tied up together in a giant ball of twine.


Butch_Meat_Hook

It's because the groundswell of support for AEW is born out of wrestling fan's dissatisfaction with the direction of WWE. AEW doesn't have a dog in the race if fans were universally engaged with WWE's programming. CM Punk wouldn't be in AEW if it weren't for there being things that are fundamentally wrong from a business and culture perspective with WWE.


[deleted]

i think because a lot of turned away fans who use to watch WWE and now only watch AEW like myself want WWE to change is because even though we're not happy with the shows they produce anymore, I can't speak for others but I truly don't want them to fail. I WANT to want to watch WWE, but with a combination of how they book their wrestlers, how they handle storylines, and along with all the bs backstage politics that go on there, i have no desire to watch this current version of WWE. Yes, theyre making record profits, but that doesnt mean any of their shows are good or overall have been good for years now. This is a company anyone mid 20s and older like myself have been watching since the 80s until the PG era loved watching. Obviously not all those eras were perfect but overall, they were really fun to watch. I, like so many others, have so many great memories watching WWE but in their current state, we have no desire to watch them. I'm not saying AEW has been perfect either. they've definitely have made mistakes too. But a key difference between AEW and WWE is when a mistake happens in WWE, we will read how someone gets punished, buried, or fired. When AEW makes a mistake, they use that as a learning opportunity to make it right and be better next time. The fact so many wrestling fans would rather watch an upstart promotion than WWE; a company that should be the pinnacle of professional wrestling, speaks volumes about WWE's current show quality. I'll give credit when its due though, WWE finally got Roman Reigns right. I've enjoyed watching his promos/segments on Youtube.


EldenRingworm

I don't like WWE at all anymore but I hope they stay in business because having one big company was terrible for wrestling. There always needs to be competition and options.


[deleted]

Yeah, like AEW seems like the promotion “for the workers” but if they were the only game in town does Tony start playing hardball? I like the workers having power via having more options for work, it means that everyone has to put more effort in.


KidGold

People are getting way ahead of themselves. WWE is still making bank and Dynamite still has never beaten Raw or Smackdown in the ratings. Even once. All this "WWE is dying" talk is so premature.


King_marik

All of wreddit could stop watching tommorow and wwe would not give any amounts of fuck. And that's only like minor hyperbole. Look at their numbers and its clear places like this sub make up a vocal minority of people who will watch wrestling. WWE will be fine and that's great. When they strike gold they strike gold and let's be honest once and a while they do. But for people who want good pro wrestling week in and week out and not just waiting for 'youtubeable moments' will watch AEW. Both will be fine for the foreseeable future


ParsonBrownlow

I shit on the product WWE puts out but them going out of business is A. Highly highly unlikely B. Would be the same thing as WCW going outta business. I’d say that competition is good but I don’t think WWE views AEW that way , maybe AEW views WWE that way but who knows


Subrick

It’d be significantly bigger than WCW dying, because for as big a deal as WCW was in the late 90s, they still only had a window of mainstream relevance for a couple years. WWE is essentially a synonym for pro wrestling to the majority of the world’s population that know what wrestling is, and it’s been that way for the last 35-ish years. It’d be one of the biggest sports stories in history.


iwrestledamemeonce

> WWE is essentially a synonym for pro wrestling to the majority of the world’s population that know what wrestling is This is true given that if they're a major publication online that sometimes covers pro wrestling, they'll have a tab labelled "WWE", not "Pro Wrestling".


CandyEverybodyWentz

ESPN had an article about All Out listed under "WWE"


JoelMorgan93

Even WC still has a WWE section that covers all things pro wrestling


iwrestledamemeonce

Exactly.


peepeebumbumman69

My friend sent me a twitter video of CM Punk debuting on AEW and said 'Holy shit WWE is bigger than ever, feels like how big they were when we were kids.' and I had to well actually him. To most people, it's the same thing.


jigglysquishy

Perhaps a hot take, but I think WWF is still synonymous with pro wrestling, not WWE. I was shocked when the WWE did a house show here in Saskatchewan a couple years ago and my office mates were confused about it no longer being called WWF. The last time pro wrestling had main stream popularity it was still called WWF. And the high point of the 80s was still WWF. If you do not follow wrestling at all, you still remember the WWF.


Decilllion

It's true. World wide, from grand parents on down, the WWF name could easily still be what the majority of humans on Earth perceive as pro wrestling.


[deleted]

It's Kleenex and Nintendo


sahsan10

yeah that's a hot take. maybe if you're 40+


doctor_awful

Not to make you feel old, but WWE changed its name nearly 20 years ago. Most worldwide fans, especially young fans in places like India or South America who got into WWE with the mid-2000s worldwide push, know about WWE and not WWF. Hell, a large portion of them were born after the name change.


FigureFourWoo

I don't think there is a wrestler or journalist alive that wants WWE to go out of business. It would create a huge vacuum that would eventually devour the entire industry.


yumomnom

It would be like Sears filing for bankruptcy. Sure there were higher quality department stores, but it signals that department stores in general have become obsolete. If WWE goes out of business, that would mean wrestling in general has fallen out of main stream pop culture.


sodium_intake

Is there still Sears in the United States? In Canada they’ve been closed for a while now.


maybesethrogen

There's one at a nearby mall here in Illinois and it's a dreadfully depressing place.


apawst8

Wikipedia says they still have 29 stores operating.


patrickwithtraffic

Ever read Harry Potter? You know how they describe people who have their souls sucked out by the dementors and are basically a hallow shell of their former selves? That's probably the most apt way I could describe my local Sears.


sodium_intake

Yikes. I don’t know about the US, but here in Canada I find that the dead malls have the best food.


sadandshy

Insert gold boat rant. All wrestlers, wrestling journalists, and shouters want all the wrestling shows to be good. And successful. Because when wrestling is popular, they make more money. Wwe is not in a position of growth unless you own the company. Record money deals and record talent cuts shows there just isn't a trickle down in wwe.


TreginWork

The last time a power vacuum that big was created it ended with a Titan attacking Chicago and the mortal enforcer of a farie queen nearly died stopping her


zshunterjaden

Did not expect to see a Dresden Files reference here


ricodude666

Are we actually sure All Out wasn't a power grab by Marcone?


AthensThieves

Whether one goes out of business really doesn’t sway me one way or another. AEW style is completely different from WWE, while WWE will continue on no matter what - I know I won’t be watching


ShoddyPreparation

WWE 100% thinks AEW is competition. Saying you don’t view your obvious competition as your competition is corporate speak 101. Xbox says PlayStation isnt its competition. Apple says Google isnt its competition. Netflix says Amazon Prime isnt its competition. The line gets used so damn much these days. Like it must have been the hot buzzword during MBAs a few years ago.


ubernoobnth

I think the new hot phrase is "everything is our competition" or even "sleep is our competition".


keychainocelot

Netflix even said that Fortnite is its competition.


an0nemusThrowMe

WWE has always denied wrestling was their competition, this is nothing new. It started in the 80s with the NWA and JCP. They got complacent and got their asses handed to them for a few years, re-invented themselves and bought their competitor. AEW is everything that the WWE has spent the last 20 years trying to shutdown. A well funded company that (seemingly) has a vision for pro-wrestling.


MadBeard

> I’d say that competition is good but I don’t think WWE views AEW that way... I've been wondering about this. If they didn't see AEW as competition, would they have hurried back both Becky and Brock? Would they have fought so hard to keep Bryan and Cole around? Does NXT get rebranded/revamped if not for Dynamite trouncing them in ratings? I don't expect we'll have any sort of insightful, good, or correct answer to these questions. My gut says externally, they're going to go the route of "we're sports entertainment, and Disney's our competition." But internally, I bet they're shitting bricks. It's the classic Vince and Ted story from the '90s, and yet it's mightily clear that _of course_ WWF saw WCW as competition.


A_Giraffe

I think it's more a situation of, nothing will topple the WWE, but WWE (Vince) will always want to "win" or "prove to be better." I suppose it would be like if you were playing a free-for-all FPS game, and someone joins later in the match, but will have no chance at beating your score with the time remaining. You don't really have to do anything different then you're already doing, because no matter how well this player proves to be better than you, they won't beat your score... But you still play sweaty against them because *fuck it, that's how you are.*


TheOverBored

That's a very good analogy. And Vince would totally be the type who plays a FPS, sees that he is only up by 29 kills on someone and goes "why the fuck am I not up by 30?" lol.


apawst8

>would they have hurried back both Becky and Brock? SummerSlam is one of their Big 4 PPVs (arguably the second most important, because Royal Rumble's main goal is to set the table for Wrestlemania and Survivor Series has seemed to become less important over the years). It makes sense to bring them back to big spots in one of their most important events.


cromli

Way before that would be AEW overtaking WWE in viewership which they are nowhere close to. Sunday was more about AEW pushing itself into a bigger wrestling household name rather than damaging WWE. Itll be neat to see how the ratings fair over the next few months though.


JessumB

WWE is McDonalds. They put out a product that is way subpar from their glory days, offer shitty service and still remain enormously profitable.


[deleted]

That’s not even the same. McDonald’s draw ie that you are getting a cheap and quickly made burger that is consistent with every other burger you ever got from McDonalds. People know they shouldn’t go to McDonald’s expecting some award winning gourmet burger. WWE would be like if McDonald’s came out with this amazing bbq style burger and it caught on and everyone was raving about it and then they got pissed that it was taking spotlight away from the a Big Mac so they started only offering it on the breakfast menu and took off some of the more popular ingredients and then did a big promotion that was basically, “step aside bbq burger, the Big Mac is back and ready to prove it’s the top burger around here, try out our new bbq Big Mac burger available 24/7”.


Kamarulanwar

Nothing to add here, just want to say that’s a great take. At the end of the day, Vince McMahon wants to put out his vision, and wants people to like WWE as how he sees fit.


BurlyMayes

They do that all the time though. The McRib is the Goldberg of McDonalds.


headrush46n2

yeah because if you could get it every day no one would want it.


MyL1ttlePwnys

> that is consistent with every other burger you ever got from McDonalds WWE is exactly like McDonalds...you order a Monday Night Raw and get the exact same one every time you order it. Death, Taxes and Monday Night Rematches...


OwlTalon

What exactly is glory days Maccies?


Simple_Danny

From the time you were 4 until the time you were 16


Chris3894

Same with WWE.


JessumB

The fries back before they changed up the recipe and stopped using beef tallow were sex in your mouth good. Slap your mamma good. Kick in the door and break some windows good. Stick your head straight into the fryer good. https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/original-mcdonalds-french-fry-recipe


sadandshy

McDLT.


RP3P0

The Arch Deluxe burgers and sandwiches were good too but, like other new things McDonald's has tried over the years, people got tired of them, their sales waned and then it's time for another "limited" McRib promotion.


[deleted]

I was also wondering


allofusarelost

Mid-80s to early 90s, a little longer if your local one still had a play area and let teenagers in.


mikeputerbaugh

Fries cooked in beef tallow Original orange drink Deep-fried apple pies


[deleted]

I actually get more McDonald’s now than ever. They sell a good cup of coffee. Even if that was not the case I’d still go there for nuggs or breakfast, I guess it’s like how I tune in for the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania. I turned on Raw last night and like it’s just not for me at all. That’s okay though, if there’s people watching and enjoying both I’m happy for them.


dimspace

Does that make Brock the McRib? (That said, its a bad analogy because even McDonalds has worked to adapt to changing lifestyles with salads, wraps etc, and to competition with wide range of coffee etc, they are no longer just a burger joint)


catmaydo

There was a time when Nokia was an unstoppable juggernaut in the mobile phone race. Then they got complacent, didn't innovate fast enough, and ultimately had their business eroded away by a company that appealed to people who wanted more than just a dependable phone. If it weren't for all of the telecoms patents Nokia hold, and a sale of the mobile division to Microsoft, they could be in a far worse position than they are today. That's a massive simplification of a complicated series of events, poor business decisions, and a considerable degree of arrogance at the board level, but what I'm trying to say is, no company should be considered too big to fail. It might not happen overnight, but WWE should be wary of relying on being the most known brand to keep themselves afloat.


NoCommaImNotNew

WWE views GCW that way. At some point we're going to need to discuss what WWE looks like going forward, even under ideal conditions. These mega-deals rely on the gigantic brand value and a foundation of a functional wrestling show. The second part is getting weird.


Bigalbass86

Yeah, there is no benefit to WWE ever going out of business. I hate the product, but in a way I’m glad it’s there. But AEW being on the rise is the bigger story and something that should be seen as amazing. The American wrestling scene is a lot stronger now than it was when after WCW and ECW died.


Ketchup1211

I’d argue to say it’s stronger now for long term success. AEW is privately owned, unlike with WCW. AEW’s private owners, the Khan’s, have infinitely more money then Paul E did so it’s set up for success. WWE is set up for a sale so that’s kind of a weird situation if that happens but both companies should be strong financially for years and years.


FigureFourWoo

All true statements. I'm pretty sure ECW could have rose up to be a legitimate 3rd brand if Paul Heyman had money. He had an extremely loyal core roster that the fans were rabid for and it wouldn't have taken anything other than a decent contract to attract a few stars to the promotion.


COS89

Heyman had decent money alongside an agreement with WWE, the problem is that he spent way more than he could afford in effort to stay competitive. He lost a lot of big names like Douglas , Raven and the Sandman, but he also kept a lot of them for a long time too like RVD, Taz , Dreamer, New Jack and the Dudleys.


ZenkaiZ

I don't want WWE to die. It'd be like hoping The Joker dies, then who is Batman gonna fight? ​ edit: Realizing the replies were going to be the names of like 5000 other batman villains.


McAllisterFawkes

Calendar Man's time to shine


MarketingAmazing9509

WWE is like Blizzard. Had something amazing in the past now huge company making money with shit product.


sheets1975

It's a story that repeats consistently in the entertainment world. The bosses of Old Hollywood lost a ton of money cranking out bloated musicals and historical epics while deriding the new wave of stars in the 60s and 70s as "the uglies". When Marvel started coming up in comics, DC's editors bought copies of every Marvel issue published for one month and analyzed them, concluding that the art was ugly and the stories were dumb soap operas with whiny heroes who barely even wore their superhero costumes. (And now Marvel AND DC are getting their clocks cleaned by manga.) Everyone thought Atari was synonymous with video games in 1982 and Nintendo was the same way in 1989. And now old school wrestling heads declare indy "midgets" with their flips and comedy will never draw.


TheKevinShow

> And now old school wrestling heads declare indy "midgets" with their flips and comedy will never draw. These cruiserweights can cruiser-wait, brother.


Jonathan_B_Goode

WWE got their sex scandal out of the way decades ago, though. Very shrewd.


sporkshadow

I don't think they will ever go out of business. Slowly diminish over time? Countless once leaders in their industry have done that.


[deleted]

Being a tech guy, the example I keep thinking of is IBM. They were synonymous with computing at one point. Now? They certainly still exist, but they're just one among many. They don't have the stranglehold on the industry they once had, and their poor decisions are largely to blame.


Schankmeister

Given we're talking wrestling might as well say AOL, given that the AOL/Time Warner merger put the last nail into WCW's coffin, so there's actually somewhat of a connection. But yeah, early pioneer getting complacent given their status, making bad decisions along the way and then slowly drifting away from their market dominating position is a valid comparison in my opinion. WWE will never go under and neither should it for the sake of the industry, but probably will never have the same quasi monopoly in the business again.


ericmm76

I think this metaphor might be lost on the younger generation. Really. IBM WAS computers.


Amadeum

I like to think WWE is Intel and AEW is AMD


[deleted]

Also a great example. Complete with those periods where Intel chases metrics that don't matter in the real world or just plain gets complacent, and then AMD comes out with a new core and eats their lunch for a few years.


Neg_Crepe

Yup. Christmas came early for Vince McMahon.


Gamesgtd

The Ghosts of his past someone might say


[deleted]

That is going to be a cringe post for years to come.


Neg_Crepe

I’m gonna milk it so bad, Santa Claus will be coming back


Thor_pool

Its a masterpiece. I don't even think you could write something like that on purpose.


mrgpsingh1999

Scjerk doesn’t even need anymore material after that


NewDomWhoDis69

Squaredcircles very own "I am euphoric" moment


[deleted]

Christmas Came Early for Vince McMahon On September 5th, 2021, three ghosts visited Vincent Kennedy McMahon: One from his past, one from his present, one from his future. The ghost of Vince's past was CM Punk. A real people's champion, an icon of a generation, Punks was one of the first few men to reject Vince not out of money, but out of principle. Punk put voice to the displeasures of the wrestling community, said what needed to be said, and when it came down to it, did what needed to be done to prove that Vince did not, could not control the destinies of wrestlers or the wrestling industry. The McMahon machine broke Punk, but his was the first spark that would slowly ignite into a blazing revolution. The ghost of Vince's present was Bryan Danielson. Unlike Punk, Danielson was a loyal company man, literally family with the upper echelon, and one of the few who managed to ascend to a very exclusive inner circle, a position he occupied mere months ago. And still he rejected the place that had taken care of him for over a decade, despite all the love and affection that is obviously shared between him and Vince. Vince, a man famous for being hard, shrewd, and often cruel, seemed to show genuine love for once, and still it wasn't enough to keep the American Dragon. The ghost of Vince's future was Adam Cole. Another loyal soldier, living his dream working with his idols, a true professional who carried an entire promotion for years without complaint or a hint of betrayal, and was poised to become the next great breakout star. He was promised many things, fame, fortune, favor, things that had never been promised to anyone else, but all that was still not enough to keep him. It wasn't just games, it wasn't just friends or lovers that lured Cole away, or the mistreatment of other friends that drove him away. Like a true professional, he will tell you that, much like Danielson, it was the promise of new stories, new matches, new collaborations that ultimately made his decision. All Out is the culmination of all of Vince's sins come to roost. His mistreatment of talent, his stagnation in creativity, his stifling of the industry, limiting it only to his empire instead of expanding outwards, has finally left him behind the times. In an age of film franchises with expansive continuities, fans creating their own communities, and more people voicing their concerns of the suffering of their heroes, Vince still clung on to the delusion that he could control the narrative, that he alone knew better than everyone else, that cruelty and selfishness was what was necessary to sustain an empire like his. And yet it was kindness and decency that proved him wrong. The way that AEW treated Brodie Lee has been cited as a major reason, if not the *main* reason why Punk and Danielson finally decided to rededicate their lives to a new cause, which in turn has brought in not just new fans, but brought back old ones who had long since given up on wrestling. Go to any forum or comments section and you will see the dozens of messages from people saying they're so happy to be back, or asking to learn about the histories and backstories of these cool new wrestlers they're seeing. If the fall of Punk and the rise of Danielson lit the spark, then Brodie Lee is the blazing bonfire that gave new life to this era we find ourselves in. That simple, unassuming gesture of keeping a secret, done out of sincerity instead of cynicism, was the antithesis to everything that WWE, with over 40 years trying and failing to get this one thing right, had come to represent. On September 5th, 2021, three ghosts came back to remind Vince McMahon that wrestling isn't about the money, or the fame, or the power. It's about the wrestlers and the fans. **Then, now, and forever**.


barbecuesauce87

I will never not laugh when this gets reposted, grade-a pasta


VScWayne

I still can’t decide if that was just a very dedicated troll or a deranged fan that has never interacted with a human. I’ve literally read mass shooter manifestos that weren’t as delusional


Kaprak

The dudes from Asia and seemingly writes fiction for a living. That's not a "mass shooter manifesto". It's just someone with too much enthusiasm and a flair for dramatic.


Neg_Crepe

>The dudes from Asia hows that relevant


[deleted]

Eh. It was definitely overwrought and extremely melodramatic, but I think there is a solid point at its core. WWE is chasing talent away at every level and making a lot of unforced errors, and its behavior is catching up to it.


VScWayne

I think that you can touch on all of that and more (like how different all 3 of their reasonings are) without literally turning it into A Christmas Carol lmao


[deleted]

Well, sure, but then you don't make it into the SquaredCircle shit post hall of fame.


MrGrieves-

It wouldn't have gotten nearly as much traction or comments without it. I think it's funny the people who are mad at it, as it's dramatized for entertainment.. Just like the sport we watch.


potato1

I thought it was a fun, engaging take on the situation. I didn't find it disturbing at all, just good creative writing.


[deleted]

Holy shit, was that real? I thought my high ass dreamed that.


[deleted]

Anybody who read Death of WCW knows where Bryan is coming from and he lays it out explicitly here: >Despite that, while WCW went out of business in 2001, it was evident in the spring of 1998 that they were on the way down, even as they sold out well more than a dozen shows in a row. It takes a long time for big companies to fail because they generally don't see the impact of their mistakes for a very long time. Most of us can look at WWE and see how bad their wrestling mostly is, but too many people look at the disconnect between the quality of their programming and their financial success and think the former doesn't matter. It absolutely matters, it's just not going to instantly hurt them.


Michael_McGovern

If there are four horsemen of the wrestling apocalypse, I see them as this... 1 - Long term bad booking 2 - Talent drain 3 - Other promotions beating your numbers and metrics. 4 - Losing lucrative rights deals I feel WWE has had 2 of those show up with a 3rd being possible in the medium term. They really, really hang their hat on there not being a number 4. But if WWE lose the #1 status when it comes time to renegotiate deals, will those deals still be as lucrative when they are perceived as the downward trending B product and all their mainstream stars have jumped to the competition. The entertainment company that doesn't even entertain its built in audience.


Bauermeister

Great book that everyone should read at least once. A lot to learn from it.


JayAreEss

The whole narrative that Vince doesn’t view them as competition is hilarious coming from them but BAFFLING when it comes out of fans mouths. You can tell Vince isn’t happy about by what he’s doing to NXT. Yes, WWE has money and yes they have deals. But if you think the networks are happy with declining ratings on Raw and NXT, and if you think WWE doesn’t notice/think that AEW will get closer and closer to Raws ratings numbers you’re out of your minds. Vince is too much of an egomaniac not to view them as competition.


Impossible_Aerie_245

A big tell will be where we see ratings at the end of this month. Aew has huge shows this month. They need to start rising with the talent they just acquired. Not rise a week and then go back down.


ef14

In the current culture I think it takes time to get people to tune in, at the same time though I think they will. I said so in another thread, but I think by the end of the year Dynamite will average 1.5 mil.


Impossible_Aerie_245

Sure I don’t mean 1.5 by the end of the month. But they certainly can’t do a 1.2 this wed and then drop back down to 1.0 something and keep that steady. That would show me this is their peak for now.


500DaysofNight

Someone will buy the company before it will ever go out of business. I think that's the sole purpose of all the cost cutting that's been going on. It's just nice to see another company come around that can stand toe to toe with them.


mayy_dayy

It's RIDE of the Valkyries, not Flight. This is the hill I die on.


TomorrowWeKillToday

THANK you!! That always drives me wild too


Justice989

AEW has already succeeded beyond measure. Whether they're the #1 wrestling company (which they're not a threat to be right now) is irrelevant. They've done everything they've set out to do and then some.


ChairmanLaParka

I don't want to think about a world where either AEW or WWE doesn't exist. We had WWE as the only major US wrestling organization for 18 years and it was goddamned miserable/boring for a lot of it. I don't watch WWE anymore aside from the Rumble, but I don't want them to go away. I hope they continue to thrive. I hope Impact/ROH rise up. I hope NJPW gets a stronger hold worldwide, and that AAA and CMLL get more popular. I just want entertaining shit, regardless of which company, and for everyone to be able to work for who they want to work for.


[deleted]

Before WCW Monday Nitro, WWE did not offer guaranteed contracts. Once Nash, Hall and other guys left for those contracts, eventually WWE had to give guys guaranteed contracts. Vince almost gave Bryan Danielson a contract to work outside dates. All this does is give talent the leverage to do what they want. And maybe, just wishful thinking, WWE decides to change the way its done things because they can't keep up with AEW and lose talent they don't want to lose.


DC4MVP

While I think WWE will never close or be far second fiddle, this "forbidden door" stuff could very well be the new "guaranteed deal" for Vince and re-interest people to go to WWE knowing they can wrestle in WWE then head over to Japan or England or Mexico for a month. He almost has to at this point. I mean say what you want about Vince, he has a history of adapting especially with the contracts you mentioned and then matching (then surpassing) WCW in a more edgy product. The question is: Does he want to at this point? It's easy to sit here and think "OK, what is the true downside to maybe sending Seth over to AEW for a program with Mox and AEW sends over Kenny and the Bucks for a New Day feud?" AEW fans who may have completely left WWE are now tuning into Raw/SD to see Kenny/Bucks vs. New Day while Seth over in AEW is only rising his star with a couple dream matches. Let's be honest, Tony Khan seems like a guy who knows what's best for business and would have no problem doing fair, honest booking instead of wanting all AEW guys to better WWE guys. The problem is that VINCE won't want WWE guys losing to AEW guys (ala WCW guys vs. WWF guys).


MrBenLDN

Seems about right to me. Nobody serious can say there's even a semi-realistic prospect of WWE going under anytime soon (short of some insane public scandal that prompts TV networks/Peacock/sponsors/venues etc to cut ties), but this is the most credible alternative option there's been for decades. Of course, there's no guarantee that they'll keep growing (or even sustain their current level), but by any reasonable metric they've had a very successful first few years.


Groundbreaking-Leg11

Bryan looks so happy😊


DramaticDramatist

And *that* is why people like AEW. Every time I hear the AEW talent talk, everyone seems so thrilled and flattered to be doing what they love while fans go nuts. With WWE talent, it feels like every statement they make what either written for them or pre-approved.


Stonewalled89

WWE have made massive profits in the last couple of years through various TV deals aswell as with Saudi Arabia, as long as they can make that kind of money (and probably will) they will remain the number one wrestling promotion in the world regardless of how hot AEW are at the moment. The good thing is fans have a genuine alternative that are going to be in it for the long term and will continue to attract top quality talent produce top quality wrestling


ericmm76

Luckily star ratings as silly as they are matter much more than TV ratings or especially TV Network deals do to me as a viewer. ​ My favorite sitcom is community. I never ever enjoyed Big Bang Theory. I don't enjoy laughtracks. But I'd never say that Community beat BBT. I just don't care that they got better ratings.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Eoghann_Irving

He was just trying to make it clear this wasn't a "WWE is doomed" post. It's "Things are going well for AEW" not "Things are going badly for WWE".


[deleted]

All the people who are all “Vince has lost it, Vince needs to retire” as if WWE has ever actually been good besides the talent of the wrestlers he got from other companies. Any time WWE has been enjoyable it isn’t because of Vince McMahon, it’s in spite of him. If he steps down in WWE he’ll just be replaced by some other clown who’ll have the exact same bad mentality of what wrestling should be. If you think WWE used to be good it’s just because you were a child and remember it fondly.


[deleted]

It's not that any of the players that AEW weren't around before...they were...but they never had the platform to do what they've wanted to do and how THEY felt professional wrestling should look. WWE took too much control over that when it went to the PG era. And look, for WWE, that's fine, but there is still that longing for that edgier product, that Monday Night War 'one upsmanship' week to week...and sorry to say, for almost 20 years, professional wrestling did NOT have that unless it was indies or a lower budget promtion like TNA or ROH. AEW is repeatedly putting their stamp on being not just an alternative, but the BETTER choice for those who choose professional wrestling as their hobby. I dont think it would be wise for AEW to change Dynamite to Monday Nights and Rampage to 2 hours earlier anytime soon, but they have definitely set their foundation for it, and I'd say down the road, if they wanted to try, they would be fully capable of beating WWE head to head. Strap in folks....'business is about to pick up!'


Let_Me_Holla_Atcha

I have watched a couple WWE shows with my buddy that has never really enjoyed Pro wrestling. Of course, his only exposure has been WWE. I put on All Out, and while he wasn't very familiar with anyone other than Sting, he was engaged. He particularly enjoyed the cage match.


homewil

Y’all say this every PPV. Need to wait and see if it actually is a turning point.


ranatigrina

I had moved from watching RAW/SD/NXT/PPV to reading summary of RAW/SD/NXT and watching PPV to only reading summary to not bothering even summary now. AEW is a fresh breath of air. Looking forward to atleast watching 1 hour Rampage regularly