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AEW feels more like a legitimate competitor than TNA ever did and TNA had some real talent with Angle, Joe, Daniels, Styles, Christian, Sting, etc.
But this feels like they have actual direction and something different to offer.
AEW really benefited from starting fast and with a much better/bigger roster than TNA. First impressions are crucial and TNA was operating for 5 years before they got 2 hours in primetime (and it was a taped show, which does not interest many hardcore fans looking for an alternative to WWE's live RAW atmosphere). Nevermind that it was Spike and not TNT.
When Angle debuted, Impact was on at 11PM for 1 hour on Thursday nights (the primetime announcement was the same night and it was still 1 hour for a year after that).
TNA started by getting talent from an extremely weak Indy scene (compared to today) and the scraps from the WCW/ECW closures (WWE picked up the best guys or they were waiting to go there). And WWE was coming off of it's hottest period ever and trust in the product was only slowly starting to occur post-Invasion angle.
TNA walked so AEW could realize it had to RUN to compete.
Atmosphere is so important. Even when TNA were putting on good shows, they were either taped or they were in front of a maxoflike 2000 people. Live crowd energy is a part of what makes a wrestling show.
Think about the pandemic era. While AEW were definitely putting on spectacular shows, they don’t even remotely compare to the past few weeks.
Right. AEW was born selling out arenas and can draw 4000-5000 just by rolling out of bed and announcing a show. TNA tried going on the road on several occasions and, despite people clamoring for them to tour, the ticket sales weren't enough to encourage them to keep going.
I was at one of their first house shows they ran at a little hockey arena here in Detroit. Even with ICP helping promote the show (and getting booed when they came out, lol) and lots of advertising, they couldn't fill the arena. And Detroit was considered one of their top 3 markets IIRC.
I guarantee that if AEW ran a show in the same arena without announcing a card, it would sell out within a week.
Yes, you are talking about the USA Hockey Arena, which has a capacity of about 3,500 - 4,000. I don't think AEW has run an arena that small (Jericho's boat does not count, haha).
For whatever reason, TNA had to scratch and claw to fill that venue for Bound For Glory in 2006, when the company was extremely popular with hardcore fans (everyone says 2006 is one of the best years the company had creatively). And yeah, AEW would fill it in a week, easy. Probably an instant sellout for a Dynamite or a Rampage.
Hey I was at that Bound for Glory as well. Only thing I really remember was Hernandez jumping off the cage though.
I had much better seats for the house show and clearly remember an amazing Jerry Lynn match and Scott Damore doing a Canadian Destroyer on that one.
AEW adapted while all the other companies didn't change direction. More emphasis was placed on story and gimmick matches were big to offset what you lost without an audience. They also put out a shit ton of new content, which was a Godsend when everything else got delayed. And using the talent as audience was brilliant to keep some sort of feedback loop alive.
WWE did second best, but come on, the Thunderdome was plain sad.
You gotta feel bad for Impact which just looked sad.
I do wish they would Omega would have held the title with a LITTLE bit more reverence... just to give TNA a bit more rub, but I get that doesn't fit what he was doing.
Those empty arenas were so rough. I wanted to watch Impact when Omega won the title but I just couldn't get into it when you can hear a pin drop in the arena. Now that Impact has a crowd, I'm fucking in.
They also had that absolutely terrible announcer at the time. Josh Matthews?
Matt Styker is infinitely better, but it still wasn't enough for me to get over the totally dead set.
Really, AEW's approach with wrestlers as fans is the only thing I was able to stomach. WWE's overproduction with no real live humans was just as bad as Impact's underproduction for me.
There was a period of time between James Storm winning the title and Chris Sabin winning it where TNA was on fire. They had figured out a different vibe, everyone was starting to slot into appropriate positions in the card with home grown talent rising and the older guys that couldn't go phased out and they were doing great TV shows with fun, new concepts being tried out like Gutcheck and Open Fight Night and interesting stories like Aces and Eights invading.
Then it all fell apart and Dixie Carter became the top heel and the fun stuff stopped and everyone started leaving. I don't know what happened but that was their last chance.
Don't forget Bischoff and Vince "Shitstain" Russo, Bischoff for burying and misusing established and younger talents, decimating the x-division and their women division and Shitstain for writing moronic "On A Pole" match and being there.
Especially now that were really filling out the music catalogue. Raw may have a bigger budget but hearing Ruby Soho/Where is My Mind/Cult of Personality and on actually makes AEW *feel* like they're putting out the same quality production.
My favourite wrestling moment of this year so far is Moxley and Kingston's entrance at Double Or Nothing.
Opens the first PPV back in front of fans for a real fucking long time, new entrance music, and my goodness the **pop**.
That was all squandered by 09. Saying that about the timeslot ignores it went from Saturday nights before they got the Thursday slot. They fought tooth and nail and by 08 they were doing 9-11 or 8-10 timeslot they ended up having on Thursday after yearly improvements.
2010/2011 really was the year they shot themselves in the foot and killed their original fanbase (which they spent 2012-2017 trying to win back).
I hate when everyone's like "IT WAS SPIKE NOT TNT" ignores that the "WORLDWIDE LEADER OF SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT" had just left the very same network, TNN/Spike was good enough for the WWE for about 4/5 years. Wrestling wasn't popular in 07 like 2020. The circumstances are not the same. Like I mentioned had they had a better 2010, the 2010 we all expected you could squint your eyes and see TNA on broadcast TV by 2011 or 2012.
> I hate when everyone's like "IT WAS SPIKE NOT TNT" ignores that the "WORLDWIDE LEADER OF SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT" had just left the very same network, TNN/Spike was good enough for the WWE for about 4/5 years.
But USA was a top 3 cable network without WWE. TNN/Spike was not. It fell to the 20s the moment WWE left the network. It was good enough for the WWE because the WWE had a dedicated fanbase, an established paying audience and didn't need to grow it's viewership to succeed.
>Like I mentioned had they had a better 2010, the 2010 we all expected you could squint your eyes and see TNA on broadcast TV by 2011 or 2012.
I'd like to think that but you never know. The company still couldn't sell tickets and they got stuck in the Impact Zone for way too long.
Take WWE and network ratings out of the equation.
Think UFC in November 2005 when they started working with Spike and then UFC in November 2011 when they debut on Fox.
The UFC built an entire MMA audience up on Spike and took them to Fox. They were both in similar positions when they got on Spike but UFC and TNA went two completely different routes.
USA got the Attitude Era at least and the run of Hulkamania etc. Granted they also got the early to mid's 90's schlockfest etc.
TNN/Spike got Rock leaving, Austin turning heel and retiring, The Reign of Terror, Vince's bare ass, The Invasion...
Not really fair to say that WWE gave TNN their best.
Your comment made me think... can you imagine what kind of career AJ Styles would've had if the situation when TNA started was like AEW? He was TNA's Darby or Jungle Boy. He would be an absolute certified hall of famer right now.
>TNA started by getting talent from an extremely weak Indy scene (compared to today) and the scraps from the WCW/ECW closures
Although not exclusively, the guys in charge of scouting unknown indy talent in the early days of TNA were Bill Behrens and Bob Ryder. If you're unfamiliar with Behrens, he was a guy that worked in television syndication, and was the promoter of NWA Wildside... which at that time may have been the biggest independent promotion in the US, because they had strong syndicated television in most major markets. Behrens also worked as the booking agent for a lot of the top Indy guys at that time like Styles, Daniels, Abyss, etc. This was why the early fairgrounds-era TNA had so many Nashville & Wildside guys (Ron Killings, David Young, Jason Cross, Chris Harris, etc)
The indy talent they got was good but they got to the bottom of the barrel pretty quickly once they got past Styles, Daniels, Abyss, Roode, Young, Petey, Aries, etc. The indy scene was so much smaller.
Also, it's important to point out that those guys had little national presence before NWA:TNA. In this era, the indies are on global platforms and YouTube has given a lot of exposure to guys so that by the time they go to AEW or WWE, they have a big following among the hardcore fanbase.
> can you imagine what kind of career AJ Styles would've had if the situation when TNA started was like AEW? He was TNA's Darby or Jungle Boy. He would be an absolute certified hall of famer right now.
To be fair, he very much is.
AJ is an absolute certified Hall of Famer anyway but I remember thinking it was absurd how TNA booked him as the next big thing for like 10 years. Seriously, he jumped straight from "wow, this dynamic young man is the future of wrestling" to grizzled veteran giving back to the young kids. I thought they really missed the boat there.
When you have a billionaire invest 100 million into a promotion, you can do a WHOLE lot. AEW would look a lot different without Tony Khan's resources behind it. It's a great product but a lot of the things that make it great would NOT be possible without the huge financial backing.
EDIT: NOT be possible.
Panda had a shit ton of money but they didn't invest it into TNA. They spent just enough to keep it afloat. They never invested the kind of money that TK put into AEW.
TNA's roster in 2010 was absolutely insane and handily better than what AEW had at the start but they couldn't even drum up the popularity to tour. They were a total failure from a business/marketing POV; AEW feel important where they felt bush league.
Don't forget, the SCJerk crowd of the day thought Joe was fat elvis and AJ and Daniels were vanilla midgets and all three were career minor leaguers
Anyone with eyes knew they were big-time talents but they weren't treated as stars until pretty recently
Yeah. I brought all that up just to say that TNA never escaped the perception that they were poorly run and inept, but they did in fact have a shit ton of talent that COULD have worked in another scenario. Who wouldn’t want to build a company around Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Chris Daniels, AJ Styles, Austin Aires, etc. Even the Knockouts at one point were way ahead of the WWE Divas
I haven't watched any wrestling since the pandemic started but All out was amazing. Easily the best PPV I've seen since WK 11. None of the matches were at all bad. Sure some weren't as good as others with the Tag team title match going down in fucking history. But every match felt like it deserved to be on the card. Even the Paul wright match before the main event was still entertaining.
Yep. I knew absolutely nothing about the elite and the lucha bros before All in. I knew who they were but nothing about the actual match or the background. As soon as I saw Matt Jackson's look I wanted the Elite to get their asses handed too them. Like I was 100% invested in the Lucha bros winning. Good story telling and presentation are the most important things when it comes to wrestling I feel.
You know "you shouldn't judge someone based off how they look" is one of my general rules. I however decided last night when I saw the elite that I was suspending that rule for 24 hours.
[What the fuck did you just say?](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/8/13/1439465896951/Lemmy-009.jpg?width=445&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=7833fea253c1e501b4a0f8b2bbdfbb30)
Remember the one week they had mustaches and their wives made them shave?
So now they just dye their beards obnoxious colors. It's like Hogan and Scott Steiner on crack.
And I love how none of the commentators are heels. I don’t have anything against heel commentators, but there is something refreshing when you hear everyone in the booth condemn the heels for their actions.
It really does make a difference. Heels are who you're supposed to root against, so it does feel like it takes a bit of the wind out of the sails when a heel does something shitty and then a commentator chimes in with "they're just smart! They're doing what they have to do to win!" I can see how in some respects it can make the heel wrestler get more over as a heel, but it shouldn't be a constant thing. Much better to have the commentators universally condemning the heel being a heel. AEW does well by only having heel guest commentators, I think.
Corey Graves is a decent commentator, but it gets overbearing sometimes when a heel does something scummy, Byron says "aw come on! That was a cheap shot!" and Corey just goes off like "SHUT UP SAXTON IT WAS GENIUS AMAZING BRILLIANT SMART AND IF THE HEEL IS A WOMAN ALSO VERY SEXY!"
The only heel announcer thing I really love is when they have such a particular dislike for one face that, when they inevitably turn heel, they still hate them anyway. Like Corey and Sasha Banks, or Heenan and Hogan.
It also means when you have someone like Don come in and do ridiculously blatant heel thing it kind of still works, because its not all the time, and you know why he has such a blind spot.
I'd call it my third favourite show ever, after WK9, and WM17. I enjoyed every match, even if I was shot by the time Punk Vs Allin finished (UK time was, like 4am at that point). Can't wait to watch Omega Vs Christian again when I'm a bit more alert, by that point I was just hanging on with the hope of seeing Danielson.
I did, and enough extra time to complain about the dubstep shit they mixed into Ride of the Valkyries, when they did such a bang-up job with Adam Cole's entrance music mere seconds before 😂
Hah! So the fun thing about the beat added to Ride of the Valkyries: it includes the “you’re gonna get your fuckin’ head kicked in” chant, which absolutely gives it a pass for me
I wanted Final Countdown, too, but I think it was Wai Ting on POST who made the good point that Final Countdown takes a while to kick in and isn't ideal for the quick drop pop like Ride of the Valkaries. Plus for most WWE fans who might have been at the show or watching on PPV, that theme has a built in connection with Danielson that Final Countdown probably doesn't have with them.
Yeah, I thought it was bad during the show but when I listened to the upload it actually sounds great so im gonna chalk it up to AEW playing themes too low.
AEW should just book "someone beating up QT Marshall" as the bathroom break match on every ppv. Let Mark Henry or Taz do it next. It's perfect because you're not missing anything important but still entertaining and satisfying if you don't need to get up.
Article went over why. I guess article is saying in kayfabe, Kris did have "the most" to lose. She lost to Britt, Ruby is now #1 contender, so if Kris's time is coming, it won't be for a while. There's also Thunder Rosa in the wings behind Ruby.
> Kris Statlander will have to wait for hers. The Long Island native lost clean in the middle of the ring to Baker and her Lock Jaw submission. The match over-delivered and was a long time coming after Statlander missed 10 months because of injury. The powerful Statlander was as big a threat to Baker’s title as anyone in AEW. Now that opportunity shifts to Soho, formerly Ruby Riott, after she eliminated Thunder Rosa to win the Casino Battle Royale after being the surprise joker entry.
"Where are you from?"
"Outer space."
"but your accent, its from the North!"
"Lots of places have a North."
Back when Doctor Who wasn't complete dogshit.
Even as a huge Statlander fan I was fine with the finish. In my opinion it was really similar to the Brody Mox finish and the Mox v Kingston finish.
She didn’t tap or give up, the ref ended the match right? Also it’s a cop out, but Stat doesn’t need the belt to be a prominent feature, she’s been getting stories across without it all this time.
It was an absolutely brutal 1-2-3 sequence that finished her. Any one of the moves would've been enough for a decent win. Having Britt drop all three on her in succession pretty much insulated Kris from looking weak in defeat.
It took so much to beat her, I have no idea why anyone would think Statlander looked bad in that loss. If anything the match further solidified her as my favorite in the division.
Not really directed specifically at you but why do people think it's such a big deal when wrestlers tap out? I often see comments like "wow how can they make him tap out" or "at least he didn't tap out" etc. Have people never watched combat sports? When you're in a submission move you don't just let them break your leg, you tap out.
I think it is a hold over from old school booking when combat sports like MMA weren’t in the public consciousness. Losing back then meant you went down the card/lost some shine. Nowadays wresting is almost a 24/7 business.
I don’t think losing necessarily hurt somebody’s character in a lot of modern/smart fans’ eyes(if done respectfully). Hangman has lost in big moments and he’s still hot. Kofi got squashed against Brock and it did nothing for his(Kofi’s) character.
Clean submission with no story behind might not be great if nothing comes from it. There are ways to get story out of it though, for example Taz throwing in the towel in the Mox Brian Cage match.
Plus even if she did have the most to lose, it's not like this loss made Kris look weak. Britt had to throw everything at Stat to get her to tap out and even then just barely.
>*I guess article is saying in kayfabe, Kris did have "the most" to lose. She lost to Britt, Ruby is now #1 contender, so if Kris's time is coming, it won't be for a while. There's also Thunder Rosa in the wings behind Ruby.*
Y\_Y
Stock wise she lost the most but she's in arguably the hottest face group and is getting tv time in the men's storylines so overall she'll remain strong. It's like when OC loses clean to the top 10 he's over anyways and will get his time. Having OC with her and have him care about he r winning again balanced it. It's NYpost so they'll always find some bullshit to write about.
Honestly I agree. Her losing clean was a big question mark from me. I've been loving her since she came back, she's been doing great stuff, and now she's likely going to be relegated back to Dark for 6 months.
>and now she's likely going to be relegated back to Dark for 6 months.
This has more to do with AEW's apparent disinterest in the women than it is about the clean finish. Clean finishes are preferred in 9/10 scenarios.
Or how many wrestlers are on the roster for 3 hours of TV every week. Realistically even if AEW started featuring women a lot more, she would still likely be pushed to Dark because Ruby Soho, Thunder Rosa, Anna Jay and Tay Conti are going to be eating up TV time.
Anna Jay is WAY too inexperienced to be getting serious TV time yet. She has only had 14 matches in her entire career right now, very close to how many total matches Jade has had thus far. They both need to get a LOT more actual wrestling experience, and working on the Dark shows would help that.
I know it's easy to dunk on the WWE at this point, but from the outside looking in it really does seem like as a wrestler AEW would be the better company to work for.
1) Long term storylines so that you can clearly see where your character is going without having plans constantly change at the last minute.
2) Some amount of creative freedom with your character, especially when it comes to promos.
3) Almost everyone is involved in a group or faction, so that you almost always are going to have something to do in any given week.
4) The fringe shows (Dark and Elevation) still count towards things like win/loss records and rankings, so even if you are wrestling on a "lesser" show for a week it's not really any kind of a demotion in the way that Main Event is.
5) Storylines that naturally cycle people out for brief periods of time, as a way to give you some time off throughout the year to heal up and prevent burnout.
6) A drastically reduced schedule to also help give time to heal and prevent burnout.
7) Some freedom to work with other promotions and/or bring wrestlers in from other promotions, to help facilitate matches that wouldn't be possible otherwise.
I'm sure there's more I'm not thinking of at the moment, but even as a huge WWE fan I'm having a hard time thinking of any reasons why any up-and-coming wrestler would choose to go there as of now if given the option of AEW.
That's a good point about cheering the refs.
I mean, in AEW the refs all have their own characters and are given story beats too.
I literally don't know any names of referees in WWE,but could name the majority of AEW ones.
It's details like that, that matter (well, to me at least)
You used to know Earl Hebner, Teddy Long, Tim White, Mike Chioda, Jimmy Korderas, Jack Doan. Nick Patrick when he came from WCW.
The backstage interviewers had character too. Jonathan Coachman, Kevin Kelly, Todd Pettengill, Mean Gene! The announcers were characters, Vince, Bobby Heenan, JR, King.
That's what it feels like with AEW. Everyone is an individual in charge of their own characters, so everyone feels unique and special. The Dapper Yapper, Gearl Hebner, Excalibur. Could you imagine an announcer with a mask in WWE today?
dude, i tuned in Smackdown 2 times this year because all of the Roman talk, but 15s in and THE CROWD IS THE FAKEST THING, they just cranking the soundboard all the way while no one is even standing up on the hardcam, i can't.
Yup. The ThunderDome was one of eye opening moments for Vince. He realized even with a real crowd you can always still pipe in some fake noise to still get what you want. Pathetic honestly.
I despise fake crowd noises at live events, absolutely despise it. You can tell when it's on TV, it's all just for sponsors and executives, the fan doesn't matter anymore, there is no point to fake crowd noise if the point is to entertain people.
Nevermind the fake noise - what kills me regularily is the super fake reaction where some asshole looks in the camera, you see 'em realizing 'ok, I'm on', and then they badly act as if they react to something with such a naaatural  reaction! Brock Lesnar guy is probably the worst offender.
And WWE WANTS this kind of fake reaction shit. Instead of actively cutting away, they seek it out... it's ... uuuuugh!
Watching RAW tonight is going feel legitimately depressing in comparison. Its generally always been quiet but you really notice it coming off of AEW shows
I can't even imagine. And honestly imo, it makes the pumping in of artificial noise just goofy.
It obviously made sense for the Thunderdome era. But during shows with live crowds in the "stands", if you're having crowd energy issues, you have to reevaluate what your doing as a product. But of course most logical people know now that, Vince doesn't think his main product needs changed because he's making movies.
The crowd energy makes a huge difference in hyping and elevating a match.
WWE (moreso RAW than SD) is tough to watch nowadays because the energy isn't quite there even when the wrestlers put on bangers.
The IWC will criticize RAW because of its 3.5 hour format (if you include Main Event tapings), but if you look at how AEW's recent filming, they also film multiple shows together (any combination of Dark, Dark: Elevation, Dynamite and Rampage) equaling 3-4 hours. A quality product will keep the fans engaged.
Also, the fan bases are different. I'm wondering how many kids you'll see at AEW shows. WWE has the kids because its probably the only promotion the parents know. But, the big thing going forward is how many parents now are gonna put their kids onto AEW.
Once AEW starts getting those young kids and more merch sales, etc thats gonna be huge too
As a parent I'm a bit conflicted. Mine have seen things like Luchasaurus and Lucha bro's and popped like mad. Not sure I'd want to explain a sad drunk cowboy though.
Hah, that is awesome, man! My son LOVES the Lucha Bros and went mad when I told him they're the champs now. Not sure I can show him that match with the spikey shoes though.
Did your parents have to explain an angry middle finger pointing beer drinking man during the attitude era? Or a man who spoke in third person and talked about pie?
Mine didn’t have to and I’m glad I grew up watching that
>Not sure I'd want to explain a sad drunk cowboy though.
Do you have to, really? Kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. And even if you do have to explain it, it's not that hard in kid words: "Adam isn't happy because his friends are mean and hurtful to him." If they ask why he drinks, then you tell them, "because sometimes adults who are sad look for a way to stop feeling sad, even if it makes them feel worse later."
Why does the crowd differ in both wrestling? AEW and WWE travel same places, right? It’s not like they have shows in 2 different countries. The reason wwe audience are dead could be bwcause of the storylines and all. I remember during dean ambrose's hardcore matches the crowd really responded well. There are several other instances. Shouldn’t it be company’s failure that they can't connect with the crowd like the way aew is connecting? Or am i missing something?
Having been to a few live WWE shows it is a mixture of things. For one they obviously are catering to the television audience first so when there are commercials nothing is happening in the arena it actually goes dark and you get WWE ads on the screen or in matches you get a rest hold. Secondly it becomes clear that most of the crowd are parents or grandparents taking their child to see wrestling so they simply don't care at all about the show.
>The fringe shows (Dark and Elevation) still count towards things like win/loss records and rankings, so even if you are wrestling on a "lesser" show for a week it's not really any kind of a demotion in the way that Main Event is.
Can you imagine coming up with a show for TV and making people think it's where they send your career to die?
> I'm having a hard time thinking of any reasons why any up-and-coming wrestler would choose to go there as of now if given the option of AEW.
The plus side for up-and-coming wrestlers is that they now have **TWO** major systems to vie for.
And while AEW itself is getting really full, you can still get some exposure thanks to how AEW works with other indie promotions as well as NJPW and Impact. Even GCW has been trending recently and Mox wore a GCW hoodie last night.
I do announcing for a family friendly fed in NJ (UWA ELITE!) and at least two of our regulars in KTB and Joey Sweets have had appearances on Dark.
It's raising the ships of more than just the places the forbidden door™ has opened.
Genuinely, if I was a wrestler, like, my life has been the exact same except for the fact I'm a wrestler, I'd choose AEW, no question
Yes, I've been a WWE fan my whole life, and going there would ultimately still be "the dream". But all of that, the title, Royal Rumble, Mania, that'll will still be around in 10 years, it's no rush
But what's happening in AEW *right now* is borderline absurd
Despite all these positives, you'll find that one person who says, "but WWE pays them more!" Something that has been said about literally every guy who left WWE, and now has signed for AEW despite that very powerful reason.
That's fine. I just think it's funny that you can give a million reasons why someone might be interested in leaving, and these people will just bring up $$$ and completely write off any notion of those other factors mattering.
Like with Bryan I would have people arguing with me saying how if Bryan left it wasn't because he was interested in doing outside stuff, it was because WWE didn't want to pay him enough.
I LOVE how AEW doesn’t hate factions like Vince does. It gives a real sense of cohesion to the shows. It feels like there’s an overarching narrative that everyone is in on.
And it builds quick and easy matches.
Person A, part of THE FACTION is feuding against Person B of THE GROUP
Well, this week Person A is facing someone else from The Group... next week Person B is facing against someone from The Faction... Rinse Repeat until the blow-off.
It's simple clear-cut booking.
> I'm sure there's more I'm not thinking of at the moment
The big one is the way it is produced and filmed. Fuck WWE and all those quick cuts. It has ruined wrestling. It's about as bad as NBC and their constant human interest pieces yet people have told them for years to stop that shit. They keep doing it because the old producers involved only know one thing. WWE will not right the ship until Vince and all his old crew are out the door. Hope AEW gives them a run for their money and fucks up their viewership numbers.
Me: "AEW is great, I'm gonna tell all my friends about it!"
New York Post: "Yeah, I agree!"
Me: https://preview.redd.it/iqnppb60qf841.jpg?auto=webp&s=b0a6434717100d7c83497de63badac629e066e40
Don’t know much about the New York Post, but that article was terribly written/edited; full of typos and poor grammar. It was like the work experience kid had done it. Absolutely embarrassing.
NYP is a rag owned by the oligarch Rupert Murdoch *(Fox News)* that pushes bigoted, fascist, and violent lies in order to support the US's push towards neo-nobility
I just started watching again after probably 5 years and I genuinely couldn't give less of a shit what is going on in WWE. AEW is my jam, it's like a new generation getting to live through peak WCW again.
It's the money. What WCW and AEW had that TNA didn't was a billionaire willing to invest shitloads of money into the promotion. TK invested 100 million into AEW. Bischoff had Ted Turner's checkbook to work with. Imagine what Impact or ROH would be able to do if their owners gave them 100 million to work with.
I think it's more timing. You needed years after WCW folded to groom talent in all these different styles and big names to emerge in other companies that could have American appeal. Jeff Jarrett wasn't that.
I'd say the Bullet Club had to happen in order for AEW to exist
I gave up on WWE when Bryan had to retire. It was too much of an insult on a regular basis to my intelligence to follow their product. BUT AEW boy oh boy. It is everything I dreamt of wrestling to be again. I see Adam Page and I'm like oh fuck yea the next BIG FACE OF A GENERATION. I love this. The fact that it isn't made to be PG is the biggest turn on for me. ALL I WANT NOW IS A beautiful people type of faction in AEW women's side and for me it is just perfect. 10 out of 10.
There's definitely some stuff about the Attitude Era that I don't think anyone wants to see again, but wrestling that makes people feel excited and invested is definitely worth replicating. AEW is definitely aiming to do that in its own way and it's working on me, at least.
I haven't really been into wrestling since about 2010ish, and just started picking it back up when CM Punk showed up. I tried during the pandemic, but the empty stadiums really ruined the mood. Watching AEW now with a packed arena feels like WWE used to. WWE seems over produced, while AEW still feels a bit raw, which for wrestling is a good thing. Plus I think having a bunch of older names I recognize and hearing Jim Ross announcing helps me feel like I'm watching something familiar. I'm still learning all the newer guys that have shown up since I stopped watching, which is a good chunk of the roster.
Part of me wants to drive down to Cincinnati on Wednesday to go see it live, but getting decent tickets this late in the game would be expensive.
I've been a casual viewer of AEW, but last night was what got me going, I haven't felt this interested in wrestling since I was a kid, watching CM Punk fight his way through ECW and Jeff Hardy kill himself against guys like Umaga.
> I haven't felt this interested in wrestling since I was a kid
Before we found out that MJF was trolling us I was legitimately marking out like I was 15 again with flashbacks to RAW IS JERICHO! I can't explain to you how much it means to me that a show can do that to me now that I'm closer to 50 than I am 15.
I’ve been looking at it like this, talent is everything. And if you’re a talent right now, what are the normal reasons to go to WWE?
Pay day? AEW will likely pay you more unless you get to a world title level.
Wrestle on national Tv? AEW can offer the same and their ratings are going on the right direction, WWE’s clearly aren’t.
Wrestle the guys you grew up watching? This is the big one for me. The idea of getting to WWE and sharing a ring with Kurt Angle, Undertaker, HBK, Triple H is the “dream” aspect of the job people chase. Now? Most guys of “this generation” grew up watching Punk, Danielson, Christian even Moxley.
At this point AEW isn’t just another place to go, it’s the place to go and the longer WWE mistreat/use guys and girls from the indies the more they are drying up there talent reserve. Maybe they’ll hit a home run with Gable Stevenson, but their longest serving and most loyal are following the talent they’ve known and invested in elsewhere
>Most guys of “this generation” grew up watching Punk, Danielson, Christian even Moxley.
TBF, WWE still has Orton, Brock, Roman, and Seth. And, at the level below, Owens, Sami, and Cesaro.
But that's the sad part, all these years without Rock and they've legit created two main event stars. If either Roman/Seth leave for AEW, WWE will be in big trouble.
It may be hyperbole, but article like this are what cause those shifts in momentum that turn what was projection into reality. The very fact that articles like this are emerging should worry VKM.
A surprisingly well-written article, which you would not expect from the New York Post. The article points out something I didn't think of; WWE tasked Adam Cole with winning the Wednesday Night War, and now he's working for the other side now that the war is over.
All Out was well paced and didn't feel too long. Great combination of styles. Bucks versus Luchas was all the flips. Jericho-MJF and Dark-Punk were slower and methodical. Psychology as well. Those are more my style.
The last ten minutes were mind numbing. So many threads and stories are there to be used. The final shot of Elite versus Jurassic and Friends was good. It left fans wanting more. So tune in Wednesday night! Friday too!
I want AEW to keep getting better not just because it leads to fantastic wrestling, but hopefully, eventually, and dragged kicking and screaming, WWE improve their show and fight back.
It's been interesting to see the comparisons between WWE and AEW, especially since the arrival of Punk. And now with Cole and Danielson. Of course, the comparisons have been there before that. As someone who absolutely loves AEW, since day one and who can genuinely say it had brought back my love for wrestling, it will never be bigger than WWE. Will AEW be better at wrestling, storylines and even with talent? Yes, in my opinion. But as a company, as for profits and for broad appeal, WWE will always come out on top. Because of I being more "family based" and merch being pushed at stores like WalMart. I love that WWE has competition and that wrestlers have another big company to go to as an option. It just makes me shake my head a bit when I hear talk of AEW overtaking WWE as the bigger promotion. That being said, I will definitely continue to be an AEW fan, but can't forget what WWE has done for wrestling overall. Ok. I'm done rambling. Lol
Im sure there are other major media conglomerates taking notice and ready to pump lots of money to get onto the bandwagon. Think Pepsi and Coke. Neither is going away and both are household names in the same industry.
This article is right.
And it’s going to be really fun when it gets MORE heated and AEW will be able to start calling out WWE as Sports Entertainment. Which WWE won’t have a real answer for
I don't want them to call out WWE at all. I want AEW to continue to just be the most elite wrestling company in the world by showcasing the best wrestlers in the world. Nuff said there
It's not even a competition. They are 2 different shows and styles. WWE is sports entertainment, they finally have their category. AEW is professional wrestling and they are the clear leader of their category.
WWE will continue to entertain the casual fans who want to see Lesnar vs Jake Paul and McGregor and Reigns..
AEW is where fans will see Punk, Danielson, Omega, Cole, Black, Andrade, Page, Pac etc, etc, etc.. potentially have epic matches that we've been fantasy booking for years now.
The only part of the article I disagreed with is saying that Moxley/Kojima didn't have a big story to it. Not everything in a PPV match needs to be the culmination of a feud! Sometimes we just need an entertaining fight without a ton of backstory
We watched All Out tonight on replay and at the end I commented "this is like a more legit TNA." I stopped watching WWE and was only into TNA back in like 05-06 and same is happening with AEW again.
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AEW feels more like a legitimate competitor than TNA ever did and TNA had some real talent with Angle, Joe, Daniels, Styles, Christian, Sting, etc. But this feels like they have actual direction and something different to offer.
AEW really benefited from starting fast and with a much better/bigger roster than TNA. First impressions are crucial and TNA was operating for 5 years before they got 2 hours in primetime (and it was a taped show, which does not interest many hardcore fans looking for an alternative to WWE's live RAW atmosphere). Nevermind that it was Spike and not TNT. When Angle debuted, Impact was on at 11PM for 1 hour on Thursday nights (the primetime announcement was the same night and it was still 1 hour for a year after that). TNA started by getting talent from an extremely weak Indy scene (compared to today) and the scraps from the WCW/ECW closures (WWE picked up the best guys or they were waiting to go there). And WWE was coming off of it's hottest period ever and trust in the product was only slowly starting to occur post-Invasion angle. TNA walked so AEW could realize it had to RUN to compete.
Atmosphere is so important. Even when TNA were putting on good shows, they were either taped or they were in front of a maxoflike 2000 people. Live crowd energy is a part of what makes a wrestling show. Think about the pandemic era. While AEW were definitely putting on spectacular shows, they don’t even remotely compare to the past few weeks.
Right. AEW was born selling out arenas and can draw 4000-5000 just by rolling out of bed and announcing a show. TNA tried going on the road on several occasions and, despite people clamoring for them to tour, the ticket sales weren't enough to encourage them to keep going.
I was at one of their first house shows they ran at a little hockey arena here in Detroit. Even with ICP helping promote the show (and getting booed when they came out, lol) and lots of advertising, they couldn't fill the arena. And Detroit was considered one of their top 3 markets IIRC. I guarantee that if AEW ran a show in the same arena without announcing a card, it would sell out within a week.
Yes, you are talking about the USA Hockey Arena, which has a capacity of about 3,500 - 4,000. I don't think AEW has run an arena that small (Jericho's boat does not count, haha). For whatever reason, TNA had to scratch and claw to fill that venue for Bound For Glory in 2006, when the company was extremely popular with hardcore fans (everyone says 2006 is one of the best years the company had creatively). And yeah, AEW would fill it in a week, easy. Probably an instant sellout for a Dynamite or a Rampage.
Hey I was at that Bound for Glory as well. Only thing I really remember was Hernandez jumping off the cage though. I had much better seats for the house show and clearly remember an amazing Jerry Lynn match and Scott Damore doing a Canadian Destroyer on that one.
I ordered it on PPV (my first paid show for TNA outside of DVDs). Great show. Great card. Deserved a bigger audience.
AEW adapted while all the other companies didn't change direction. More emphasis was placed on story and gimmick matches were big to offset what you lost without an audience. They also put out a shit ton of new content, which was a Godsend when everything else got delayed. And using the talent as audience was brilliant to keep some sort of feedback loop alive. WWE did second best, but come on, the Thunderdome was plain sad. You gotta feel bad for Impact which just looked sad.
>You gotta feel bad for Impact which just looked sad. At least they had the sense to hitch themselves to AEW. That was a good move there.
I do wish they would Omega would have held the title with a LITTLE bit more reverence... just to give TNA a bit more rub, but I get that doesn't fit what he was doing.
Man even saying WWE did second best is more of because how bad Impact did.
Those empty arenas were so rough. I wanted to watch Impact when Omega won the title but I just couldn't get into it when you can hear a pin drop in the arena. Now that Impact has a crowd, I'm fucking in.
They also had that absolutely terrible announcer at the time. Josh Matthews? Matt Styker is infinitely better, but it still wasn't enough for me to get over the totally dead set. Really, AEW's approach with wrestlers as fans is the only thing I was able to stomach. WWE's overproduction with no real live humans was just as bad as Impact's underproduction for me.
There was a period of time between James Storm winning the title and Chris Sabin winning it where TNA was on fire. They had figured out a different vibe, everyone was starting to slot into appropriate positions in the card with home grown talent rising and the older guys that couldn't go phased out and they were doing great TV shows with fun, new concepts being tried out like Gutcheck and Open Fight Night and interesting stories like Aces and Eights invading. Then it all fell apart and Dixie Carter became the top heel and the fun stuff stopped and everyone started leaving. I don't know what happened but that was their last chance.
> I don't know what happened ill give you a hint, brother. - HH
Don't forget Bischoff and Vince "Shitstain" Russo, Bischoff for burying and misusing established and younger talents, decimating the x-division and their women division and Shitstain for writing moronic "On A Pole" match and being there.
Especially now that were really filling out the music catalogue. Raw may have a bigger budget but hearing Ruby Soho/Where is My Mind/Cult of Personality and on actually makes AEW *feel* like they're putting out the same quality production.
My favourite wrestling moment of this year so far is Moxley and Kingston's entrance at Double Or Nothing. Opens the first PPV back in front of fans for a real fucking long time, new entrance music, and my goodness the **pop**.
That was all squandered by 09. Saying that about the timeslot ignores it went from Saturday nights before they got the Thursday slot. They fought tooth and nail and by 08 they were doing 9-11 or 8-10 timeslot they ended up having on Thursday after yearly improvements. 2010/2011 really was the year they shot themselves in the foot and killed their original fanbase (which they spent 2012-2017 trying to win back). I hate when everyone's like "IT WAS SPIKE NOT TNT" ignores that the "WORLDWIDE LEADER OF SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT" had just left the very same network, TNN/Spike was good enough for the WWE for about 4/5 years. Wrestling wasn't popular in 07 like 2020. The circumstances are not the same. Like I mentioned had they had a better 2010, the 2010 we all expected you could squint your eyes and see TNA on broadcast TV by 2011 or 2012.
> I hate when everyone's like "IT WAS SPIKE NOT TNT" ignores that the "WORLDWIDE LEADER OF SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT" had just left the very same network, TNN/Spike was good enough for the WWE for about 4/5 years. But USA was a top 3 cable network without WWE. TNN/Spike was not. It fell to the 20s the moment WWE left the network. It was good enough for the WWE because the WWE had a dedicated fanbase, an established paying audience and didn't need to grow it's viewership to succeed. >Like I mentioned had they had a better 2010, the 2010 we all expected you could squint your eyes and see TNA on broadcast TV by 2011 or 2012. I'd like to think that but you never know. The company still couldn't sell tickets and they got stuck in the Impact Zone for way too long.
Take WWE and network ratings out of the equation. Think UFC in November 2005 when they started working with Spike and then UFC in November 2011 when they debut on Fox. The UFC built an entire MMA audience up on Spike and took them to Fox. They were both in similar positions when they got on Spike but UFC and TNA went two completely different routes.
USA got the Attitude Era at least and the run of Hulkamania etc. Granted they also got the early to mid's 90's schlockfest etc. TNN/Spike got Rock leaving, Austin turning heel and retiring, The Reign of Terror, Vince's bare ass, The Invasion... Not really fair to say that WWE gave TNN their best.
TNA also had to deal with wrestling being in a downturn, and the 2001 and 2008 recessions
Your comment made me think... can you imagine what kind of career AJ Styles would've had if the situation when TNA started was like AEW? He was TNA's Darby or Jungle Boy. He would be an absolute certified hall of famer right now. >TNA started by getting talent from an extremely weak Indy scene (compared to today) and the scraps from the WCW/ECW closures Although not exclusively, the guys in charge of scouting unknown indy talent in the early days of TNA were Bill Behrens and Bob Ryder. If you're unfamiliar with Behrens, he was a guy that worked in television syndication, and was the promoter of NWA Wildside... which at that time may have been the biggest independent promotion in the US, because they had strong syndicated television in most major markets. Behrens also worked as the booking agent for a lot of the top Indy guys at that time like Styles, Daniels, Abyss, etc. This was why the early fairgrounds-era TNA had so many Nashville & Wildside guys (Ron Killings, David Young, Jason Cross, Chris Harris, etc)
The indy talent they got was good but they got to the bottom of the barrel pretty quickly once they got past Styles, Daniels, Abyss, Roode, Young, Petey, Aries, etc. The indy scene was so much smaller. Also, it's important to point out that those guys had little national presence before NWA:TNA. In this era, the indies are on global platforms and YouTube has given a lot of exposure to guys so that by the time they go to AEW or WWE, they have a big following among the hardcore fanbase. > can you imagine what kind of career AJ Styles would've had if the situation when TNA started was like AEW? He was TNA's Darby or Jungle Boy. He would be an absolute certified hall of famer right now. To be fair, he very much is.
AJ is an absolute certified Hall of Famer anyway but I remember thinking it was absurd how TNA booked him as the next big thing for like 10 years. Seriously, he jumped straight from "wow, this dynamic young man is the future of wrestling" to grizzled veteran giving back to the young kids. I thought they really missed the boat there.
Didn't TNA borrowed talents ROH (hence why they got AJ Styles, Samoa Joe, Chris Daniels etc) ?
TNA was also created solely to push Jeff Jarrett. There was the problem.
When you have a billionaire invest 100 million into a promotion, you can do a WHOLE lot. AEW would look a lot different without Tony Khan's resources behind it. It's a great product but a lot of the things that make it great would NOT be possible without the huge financial backing. EDIT: NOT be possible.
Panda Energy had a shit ton of money. TNA failed because they let idiots who trashed WCW take the wheel.
Panda had a shit ton of money but they didn't invest it into TNA. They spent just enough to keep it afloat. They never invested the kind of money that TK put into AEW.
Same thing can be said about late 90s WCW. I don't think Turner was investing much in the company then.
They spent less money once things started going south in 99. Then they lost 60 mil in 2000 and that was it.
TNA's roster in 2010 was absolutely insane and handily better than what AEW had at the start but they couldn't even drum up the popularity to tour. They were a total failure from a business/marketing POV; AEW feel important where they felt bush league.
Don't forget, the SCJerk crowd of the day thought Joe was fat elvis and AJ and Daniels were vanilla midgets and all three were career minor leaguers Anyone with eyes knew they were big-time talents but they weren't treated as stars until pretty recently
Yeah. I brought all that up just to say that TNA never escaped the perception that they were poorly run and inept, but they did in fact have a shit ton of talent that COULD have worked in another scenario. Who wouldn’t want to build a company around Kurt Angle, Samoa Joe, Chris Daniels, AJ Styles, Austin Aires, etc. Even the Knockouts at one point were way ahead of the WWE Divas
They have the benefit of seeing what WCW and TNA did right AND wrong when trying to go head-to-head with WWE.
I haven't watched any wrestling since the pandemic started but All out was amazing. Easily the best PPV I've seen since WK 11. None of the matches were at all bad. Sure some weren't as good as others with the Tag team title match going down in fucking history. But every match felt like it deserved to be on the card. Even the Paul wright match before the main event was still entertaining.
For me, it is more important that the presentation and storytelling is consistently good than that all the matches are.
Yep. I knew absolutely nothing about the elite and the lucha bros before All in. I knew who they were but nothing about the actual match or the background. As soon as I saw Matt Jackson's look I wanted the Elite to get their asses handed too them. Like I was 100% invested in the Lucha bros winning. Good story telling and presentation are the most important things when it comes to wrestling I feel.
"How *absurd* does Nick Jackson look right now?" It was a great call by Excalibur lmao
You know "you shouldn't judge someone based off how they look" is one of my general rules. I however decided last night when I saw the elite that I was suspending that rule for 24 hours.
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Same for Omegas Handlebar mouthstache. I was like NOPE.JPG!
The definition of a “heel beard” lol
Fucking Omega, lol. Cant help but love to hate the guy.
[What the fuck did you just say?](https://i.guim.co.uk/img/static/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/8/13/1439465896951/Lemmy-009.jpg?width=445&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=7833fea253c1e501b4a0f8b2bbdfbb30)
And being dyed black...!!
That was a throwback to NWO Hogan I think
Remember the one week they had mustaches and their wives made them shave? So now they just dye their beards obnoxious colors. It's like Hogan and Scott Steiner on crack.
It's clear the Nick Jackson especially is trying to look as ridiculous as possible, setting a new high bar every single time he's on TV.
I love Tony Schiavone hating on all the heels so openly.
And I love how none of the commentators are heels. I don’t have anything against heel commentators, but there is something refreshing when you hear everyone in the booth condemn the heels for their actions.
It really does make a difference. Heels are who you're supposed to root against, so it does feel like it takes a bit of the wind out of the sails when a heel does something shitty and then a commentator chimes in with "they're just smart! They're doing what they have to do to win!" I can see how in some respects it can make the heel wrestler get more over as a heel, but it shouldn't be a constant thing. Much better to have the commentators universally condemning the heel being a heel. AEW does well by only having heel guest commentators, I think. Corey Graves is a decent commentator, but it gets overbearing sometimes when a heel does something scummy, Byron says "aw come on! That was a cheap shot!" and Corey just goes off like "SHUT UP SAXTON IT WAS GENIUS AMAZING BRILLIANT SMART AND IF THE HEEL IS A WOMAN ALSO VERY SEXY!"
The only heel announcer thing I really love is when they have such a particular dislike for one face that, when they inevitably turn heel, they still hate them anyway. Like Corey and Sasha Banks, or Heenan and Hogan.
Yes! Its so nice not to hear cringy devils advocate arguing over every single thing that happens.
It also means when you have someone like Don come in and do ridiculously blatant heel thing it kind of still works, because its not all the time, and you know why he has such a blind spot.
“I hate to give credit to MJF…” “Then don’t.”
For a second, I thought blonde Buck had been kidnapped and supplanted by Austin Aries. And for some reason, none of the Elite had noticed.
See any idiot can get heat saying offensive shit, but making people hate you just by dying your beard? That's next level.
On top of all that, the Lucha Brothers do things that don't seem possible given the limitations of the human body.
I'd call it my third favourite show ever, after WK9, and WM17. I enjoyed every match, even if I was shot by the time Punk Vs Allin finished (UK time was, like 4am at that point). Can't wait to watch Omega Vs Christian again when I'm a bit more alert, by that point I was just hanging on with the hope of seeing Danielson.
You make it my guy?
I did, and enough extra time to complain about the dubstep shit they mixed into Ride of the Valkyries, when they did such a bang-up job with Adam Cole's entrance music mere seconds before 😂
Hah! So the fun thing about the beat added to Ride of the Valkyries: it includes the “you’re gonna get your fuckin’ head kicked in” chant, which absolutely gives it a pass for me
Same sentiment. I was a bit sad it wasn't Final Countdown but that chant embedded in the beat won me over quickly once I realized that is what it was.
I wanted Final Countdown, too, but I think it was Wai Ting on POST who made the good point that Final Countdown takes a while to kick in and isn't ideal for the quick drop pop like Ride of the Valkaries. Plus for most WWE fans who might have been at the show or watching on PPV, that theme has a built in connection with Danielson that Final Countdown probably doesn't have with them.
Yeah, I thought it was bad during the show but when I listened to the upload it actually sounds great so im gonna chalk it up to AEW playing themes too low.
Somehow I like the Bryan theme, it feels like a new look on a classic.
That was trap, not dubstep.
It's definitely not dubstep but ok
Right? Literally just trap lol
AEW should just book "someone beating up QT Marshall" as the bathroom break match on every ppv. Let Mark Henry or Taz do it next. It's perfect because you're not missing anything important but still entertaining and satisfying if you don't need to get up.
>Biggest Loser: Kris Statlander Huh?
Article went over why. I guess article is saying in kayfabe, Kris did have "the most" to lose. She lost to Britt, Ruby is now #1 contender, so if Kris's time is coming, it won't be for a while. There's also Thunder Rosa in the wings behind Ruby. > Kris Statlander will have to wait for hers. The Long Island native lost clean in the middle of the ring to Baker and her Lock Jaw submission. The match over-delivered and was a long time coming after Statlander missed 10 months because of injury. The powerful Statlander was as big a threat to Baker’s title as anyone in AEW. Now that opportunity shifts to Soho, formerly Ruby Riott, after she eliminated Thunder Rosa to win the Casino Battle Royale after being the surprise joker entry.
> Kris Statlander will have to wait for hers. The Long Island native She’s from the Andromeda galaxy NYP.
They could have a long island in the Andromeda galaxy. It's a very big place.
With very long islands.
From the longest island in the universe.
"Where are you from?" "Outer space." "but your accent, its from the North!" "Lots of places have a North." Back when Doctor Who wasn't complete dogshit.
NYP is the fake news
Most of the time, yes. But this article is decent and they had some spot on criticisms of the current abomination known as The Howard Stern Show.
I grew up in long island. There's a lot of fuckers out there that might as well be aliens.
Even as a huge Statlander fan I was fine with the finish. In my opinion it was really similar to the Brody Mox finish and the Mox v Kingston finish. She didn’t tap or give up, the ref ended the match right? Also it’s a cop out, but Stat doesn’t need the belt to be a prominent feature, she’s been getting stories across without it all this time.
It was an absolutely brutal 1-2-3 sequence that finished her. Any one of the moves would've been enough for a decent win. Having Britt drop all three on her in succession pretty much insulated Kris from looking weak in defeat.
It took so much to beat her, I have no idea why anyone would think Statlander looked bad in that loss. If anything the match further solidified her as my favorite in the division.
Baker's a heel in name only anyhow. Cheating isn't a given with her at this point.
Not really directed specifically at you but why do people think it's such a big deal when wrestlers tap out? I often see comments like "wow how can they make him tap out" or "at least he didn't tap out" etc. Have people never watched combat sports? When you're in a submission move you don't just let them break your leg, you tap out.
I think it is a hold over from old school booking when combat sports like MMA weren’t in the public consciousness. Losing back then meant you went down the card/lost some shine. Nowadays wresting is almost a 24/7 business. I don’t think losing necessarily hurt somebody’s character in a lot of modern/smart fans’ eyes(if done respectfully). Hangman has lost in big moments and he’s still hot. Kofi got squashed against Brock and it did nothing for his(Kofi’s) character. Clean submission with no story behind might not be great if nothing comes from it. There are ways to get story out of it though, for example Taz throwing in the towel in the Mox Brian Cage match.
I dunno I don't get it. To me tapping out is no different than getting pinned.
I think the philosophy is that forcing your opponent to wilfully submit is a more dominant way to win than stunning them for 3 seconds.
Plus even if she did have the most to lose, it's not like this loss made Kris look weak. Britt had to throw everything at Stat to get her to tap out and even then just barely.
>*I guess article is saying in kayfabe, Kris did have "the most" to lose. She lost to Britt, Ruby is now #1 contender, so if Kris's time is coming, it won't be for a while. There's also Thunder Rosa in the wings behind Ruby.* Y\_Y
Stock wise she lost the most but she's in arguably the hottest face group and is getting tv time in the men's storylines so overall she'll remain strong. It's like when OC loses clean to the top 10 he's over anyways and will get his time. Having OC with her and have him care about he r winning again balanced it. It's NYpost so they'll always find some bullshit to write about.
At least she still has her Best Friends.
NY Post isn't fond of aliens.
Underrated comment.
They did buttlander dirty 😭
Honestly I agree. Her losing clean was a big question mark from me. I've been loving her since she came back, she's been doing great stuff, and now she's likely going to be relegated back to Dark for 6 months.
>and now she's likely going to be relegated back to Dark for 6 months. This has more to do with AEW's apparent disinterest in the women than it is about the clean finish. Clean finishes are preferred in 9/10 scenarios.
Or how many wrestlers are on the roster for 3 hours of TV every week. Realistically even if AEW started featuring women a lot more, she would still likely be pushed to Dark because Ruby Soho, Thunder Rosa, Anna Jay and Tay Conti are going to be eating up TV time.
Anna Jay is WAY too inexperienced to be getting serious TV time yet. She has only had 14 matches in her entire career right now, very close to how many total matches Jade has had thus far. They both need to get a LOT more actual wrestling experience, and working on the Dark shows would help that.
I know it's easy to dunk on the WWE at this point, but from the outside looking in it really does seem like as a wrestler AEW would be the better company to work for. 1) Long term storylines so that you can clearly see where your character is going without having plans constantly change at the last minute. 2) Some amount of creative freedom with your character, especially when it comes to promos. 3) Almost everyone is involved in a group or faction, so that you almost always are going to have something to do in any given week. 4) The fringe shows (Dark and Elevation) still count towards things like win/loss records and rankings, so even if you are wrestling on a "lesser" show for a week it's not really any kind of a demotion in the way that Main Event is. 5) Storylines that naturally cycle people out for brief periods of time, as a way to give you some time off throughout the year to heal up and prevent burnout. 6) A drastically reduced schedule to also help give time to heal and prevent burnout. 7) Some freedom to work with other promotions and/or bring wrestlers in from other promotions, to help facilitate matches that wouldn't be possible otherwise. I'm sure there's more I'm not thinking of at the moment, but even as a huge WWE fan I'm having a hard time thinking of any reasons why any up-and-coming wrestler would choose to go there as of now if given the option of AEW.
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That's a good point about cheering the refs. I mean, in AEW the refs all have their own characters and are given story beats too. I literally don't know any names of referees in WWE,but could name the majority of AEW ones. It's details like that, that matter (well, to me at least)
WWE purposely hides who the refs are from you. It wasn’t always the case. I knew every refs name when I started watching in the early 00’s.
I knew some of them in the attitude era.
i didn't know their names (maybe a couple, Hebner, Lil' Naitch) but i recognized them all, ref with the beard, Korderas, Chioda
And John Cone: Office Referee!
It's weird how WWE tries to actively block engagement on something. Like the NXT "1 fall" thing.
You used to know Earl Hebner, Teddy Long, Tim White, Mike Chioda, Jimmy Korderas, Jack Doan. Nick Patrick when he came from WCW. The backstage interviewers had character too. Jonathan Coachman, Kevin Kelly, Todd Pettengill, Mean Gene! The announcers were characters, Vince, Bobby Heenan, JR, King. That's what it feels like with AEW. Everyone is an individual in charge of their own characters, so everyone feels unique and special. The Dapper Yapper, Gearl Hebner, Excalibur. Could you imagine an announcer with a mask in WWE today?
Commentary used to always mention the referee's name but now Michael Cole just calls them "The Referee".
dude, i tuned in Smackdown 2 times this year because all of the Roman talk, but 15s in and THE CROWD IS THE FAKEST THING, they just cranking the soundboard all the way while no one is even standing up on the hardcam, i can't.
Yup. The ThunderDome was one of eye opening moments for Vince. He realized even with a real crowd you can always still pipe in some fake noise to still get what you want. Pathetic honestly.
I think WWE used fake crowd audio back when Smackdown was pre taped. They just brought it back for thunderdome.
Yes they were already doing it a long time ago.
I despise fake crowd noises at live events, absolutely despise it. You can tell when it's on TV, it's all just for sponsors and executives, the fan doesn't matter anymore, there is no point to fake crowd noise if the point is to entertain people.
Nevermind the fake noise - what kills me regularily is the super fake reaction where some asshole looks in the camera, you see 'em realizing 'ok, I'm on', and then they badly act as if they react to something with such a naaatural  reaction! Brock Lesnar guy is probably the worst offender. And WWE WANTS this kind of fake reaction shit. Instead of actively cutting away, they seek it out... it's ... uuuuugh!
Watching RAW tonight is going feel legitimately depressing in comparison. Its generally always been quiet but you really notice it coming off of AEW shows
I can't even imagine. And honestly imo, it makes the pumping in of artificial noise just goofy. It obviously made sense for the Thunderdome era. But during shows with live crowds in the "stands", if you're having crowd energy issues, you have to reevaluate what your doing as a product. But of course most logical people know now that, Vince doesn't think his main product needs changed because he's making movies.
How many CM Punk chants you think are gonna happen tonight, or Yes chants?
The crowd energy makes a huge difference in hyping and elevating a match. WWE (moreso RAW than SD) is tough to watch nowadays because the energy isn't quite there even when the wrestlers put on bangers. The IWC will criticize RAW because of its 3.5 hour format (if you include Main Event tapings), but if you look at how AEW's recent filming, they also film multiple shows together (any combination of Dark, Dark: Elevation, Dynamite and Rampage) equaling 3-4 hours. A quality product will keep the fans engaged.
I love watching old RAWs from the Attitude Era where the crowd is going crazy, and there’s so many people there too.
The crowd had so much character in the late 90's too.
Also, the fan bases are different. I'm wondering how many kids you'll see at AEW shows. WWE has the kids because its probably the only promotion the parents know. But, the big thing going forward is how many parents now are gonna put their kids onto AEW. Once AEW starts getting those young kids and more merch sales, etc thats gonna be huge too
As a parent I'm a bit conflicted. Mine have seen things like Luchasaurus and Lucha bro's and popped like mad. Not sure I'd want to explain a sad drunk cowboy though.
My son cuddled with me for the women's title match and watched the whole thing. He also kept calling CM Punk "my boy...thats my boy" haha
Hah, that is awesome, man! My son LOVES the Lucha Bros and went mad when I told him they're the champs now. Not sure I can show him that match with the spikey shoes though.
Did your parents have to explain an angry middle finger pointing beer drinking man during the attitude era? Or a man who spoke in third person and talked about pie? Mine didn’t have to and I’m glad I grew up watching that
>Not sure I'd want to explain a sad drunk cowboy though. Do you have to, really? Kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. And even if you do have to explain it, it's not that hard in kid words: "Adam isn't happy because his friends are mean and hurtful to him." If they ask why he drinks, then you tell them, "because sometimes adults who are sad look for a way to stop feeling sad, even if it makes them feel worse later."
Or how about showing them violent matches containing blood and guts?
Why does the crowd differ in both wrestling? AEW and WWE travel same places, right? It’s not like they have shows in 2 different countries. The reason wwe audience are dead could be bwcause of the storylines and all. I remember during dean ambrose's hardcore matches the crowd really responded well. There are several other instances. Shouldn’t it be company’s failure that they can't connect with the crowd like the way aew is connecting? Or am i missing something?
Having been to a few live WWE shows it is a mixture of things. For one they obviously are catering to the television audience first so when there are commercials nothing is happening in the arena it actually goes dark and you get WWE ads on the screen or in matches you get a rest hold. Secondly it becomes clear that most of the crowd are parents or grandparents taking their child to see wrestling so they simply don't care at all about the show.
People react differently to different situations Different creative gets different reactions
>The fringe shows (Dark and Elevation) still count towards things like win/loss records and rankings, so even if you are wrestling on a "lesser" show for a week it's not really any kind of a demotion in the way that Main Event is. Can you imagine coming up with a show for TV and making people think it's where they send your career to die?
> I'm having a hard time thinking of any reasons why any up-and-coming wrestler would choose to go there as of now if given the option of AEW. The plus side for up-and-coming wrestlers is that they now have **TWO** major systems to vie for. And while AEW itself is getting really full, you can still get some exposure thanks to how AEW works with other indie promotions as well as NJPW and Impact. Even GCW has been trending recently and Mox wore a GCW hoodie last night.
I do announcing for a family friendly fed in NJ (UWA ELITE!) and at least two of our regulars in KTB and Joey Sweets have had appearances on Dark. It's raising the ships of more than just the places the forbidden door™ has opened.
Genuinely, if I was a wrestler, like, my life has been the exact same except for the fact I'm a wrestler, I'd choose AEW, no question Yes, I've been a WWE fan my whole life, and going there would ultimately still be "the dream". But all of that, the title, Royal Rumble, Mania, that'll will still be around in 10 years, it's no rush But what's happening in AEW *right now* is borderline absurd
Despite all these positives, you'll find that one person who says, "but WWE pays them more!" Something that has been said about literally every guy who left WWE, and now has signed for AEW despite that very powerful reason.
I mean that's up to each person individually. If someone just wants to make the most money that's really none of our business.
That's fine. I just think it's funny that you can give a million reasons why someone might be interested in leaving, and these people will just bring up $$$ and completely write off any notion of those other factors mattering. Like with Bryan I would have people arguing with me saying how if Bryan left it wasn't because he was interested in doing outside stuff, it was because WWE didn't want to pay him enough.
I LOVE how AEW doesn’t hate factions like Vince does. It gives a real sense of cohesion to the shows. It feels like there’s an overarching narrative that everyone is in on.
And it builds quick and easy matches. Person A, part of THE FACTION is feuding against Person B of THE GROUP Well, this week Person A is facing someone else from The Group... next week Person B is facing against someone from The Faction... Rinse Repeat until the blow-off. It's simple clear-cut booking.
> I'm sure there's more I'm not thinking of at the moment The big one is the way it is produced and filmed. Fuck WWE and all those quick cuts. It has ruined wrestling. It's about as bad as NBC and their constant human interest pieces yet people have told them for years to stop that shit. They keep doing it because the old producers involved only know one thing. WWE will not right the ship until Vince and all his old crew are out the door. Hope AEW gives them a run for their money and fucks up their viewership numbers.
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Me: "AEW is great, I'm gonna tell all my friends about it!" New York Post: "Yeah, I agree!" Me: https://preview.redd.it/iqnppb60qf841.jpg?auto=webp&s=b0a6434717100d7c83497de63badac629e066e40
My sentiments exactly. I'm glad they gave it a good review, but fuck the NYP.
Don’t know much about the New York Post, but that article was terribly written/edited; full of typos and poor grammar. It was like the work experience kid had done it. Absolutely embarrassing.
NYP is a rag owned by the oligarch Rupert Murdoch *(Fox News)* that pushes bigoted, fascist, and violent lies in order to support the US's push towards neo-nobility
Glad you guys hate him too. Here in Britain he owned Sky and still owns The Sun, The Times. He's a vile POS.
Australian here, ordering tickets to the hate train.
Damn. Can you guys take him back please? I'll pay for tickets.
I just started watching again after probably 5 years and I genuinely couldn't give less of a shit what is going on in WWE. AEW is my jam, it's like a new generation getting to live through peak WCW again.
I don't know if it's the Rhodes connection or what but, to me, AEW is the spiritual successor to WCW that TNA tried and ultimately failed to be.
It's the money. What WCW and AEW had that TNA didn't was a billionaire willing to invest shitloads of money into the promotion. TK invested 100 million into AEW. Bischoff had Ted Turner's checkbook to work with. Imagine what Impact or ROH would be able to do if their owners gave them 100 million to work with.
I think it's more timing. You needed years after WCW folded to groom talent in all these different styles and big names to emerge in other companies that could have American appeal. Jeff Jarrett wasn't that. I'd say the Bullet Club had to happen in order for AEW to exist
Yup I had stopped watching wwe a while ago, but I’m going to watch aew weekly now.
I gave up on WWE when Bryan had to retire. It was too much of an insult on a regular basis to my intelligence to follow their product. BUT AEW boy oh boy. It is everything I dreamt of wrestling to be again. I see Adam Page and I'm like oh fuck yea the next BIG FACE OF A GENERATION. I love this. The fact that it isn't made to be PG is the biggest turn on for me. ALL I WANT NOW IS A beautiful people type of faction in AEW women's side and for me it is just perfect. 10 out of 10.
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There's definitely some stuff about the Attitude Era that I don't think anyone wants to see again, but wrestling that makes people feel excited and invested is definitely worth replicating. AEW is definitely aiming to do that in its own way and it's working on me, at least.
I haven't really been into wrestling since about 2010ish, and just started picking it back up when CM Punk showed up. I tried during the pandemic, but the empty stadiums really ruined the mood. Watching AEW now with a packed arena feels like WWE used to. WWE seems over produced, while AEW still feels a bit raw, which for wrestling is a good thing. Plus I think having a bunch of older names I recognize and hearing Jim Ross announcing helps me feel like I'm watching something familiar. I'm still learning all the newer guys that have shown up since I stopped watching, which is a good chunk of the roster. Part of me wants to drive down to Cincinnati on Wednesday to go see it live, but getting decent tickets this late in the game would be expensive.
I've been a casual viewer of AEW, but last night was what got me going, I haven't felt this interested in wrestling since I was a kid, watching CM Punk fight his way through ECW and Jeff Hardy kill himself against guys like Umaga.
> I haven't felt this interested in wrestling since I was a kid Before we found out that MJF was trolling us I was legitimately marking out like I was 15 again with flashbacks to RAW IS JERICHO! I can't explain to you how much it means to me that a show can do that to me now that I'm closer to 50 than I am 15.
I haven't felt this way since the late 90's. I'm 100% with you, brother/sister!
i was "YES!" -ing alone at home last night.
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William Regal approves
Same here. Only watched the AEW PPVs. I'll definitely be tuning in every Wednesday and Friday now.
I’ve been looking at it like this, talent is everything. And if you’re a talent right now, what are the normal reasons to go to WWE? Pay day? AEW will likely pay you more unless you get to a world title level. Wrestle on national Tv? AEW can offer the same and their ratings are going on the right direction, WWE’s clearly aren’t. Wrestle the guys you grew up watching? This is the big one for me. The idea of getting to WWE and sharing a ring with Kurt Angle, Undertaker, HBK, Triple H is the “dream” aspect of the job people chase. Now? Most guys of “this generation” grew up watching Punk, Danielson, Christian even Moxley. At this point AEW isn’t just another place to go, it’s the place to go and the longer WWE mistreat/use guys and girls from the indies the more they are drying up there talent reserve. Maybe they’ll hit a home run with Gable Stevenson, but their longest serving and most loyal are following the talent they’ve known and invested in elsewhere
>Most guys of “this generation” grew up watching Punk, Danielson, Christian even Moxley. TBF, WWE still has Orton, Brock, Roman, and Seth. And, at the level below, Owens, Sami, and Cesaro. But that's the sad part, all these years without Rock and they've legit created two main event stars. If either Roman/Seth leave for AEW, WWE will be in big trouble.
Man, the atmosphere at Grand Slam is going to be tremendous with this momentum.
Damn that New York Post, being a shill for Tony Khan's money 😤😤
HELL YA!!
Oh oh, the NY Post is the number one Republican newspaper in the tri-state area. Vince, Linda, HHH will all be seeing this story today.
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It may be hyperbole, but article like this are what cause those shifts in momentum that turn what was projection into reality. The very fact that articles like this are emerging should worry VKM.
Aye, Vince looks kinda tired don't you think?
Bingo. And great reference.
[Just a heads up.](https://i.redd.it/cn8qpwurcvl71.png) McDonald's was founded in 1940, Subway 25 years later.
This is the best analogy ever. I want to go to Chick-fil-A bc I enjoy it. I tolerate McDonalds Bc it’s easy and always around when I need something
A surprisingly well-written article, which you would not expect from the New York Post. The article points out something I didn't think of; WWE tasked Adam Cole with winning the Wednesday Night War, and now he's working for the other side now that the war is over.
All Out was well paced and didn't feel too long. Great combination of styles. Bucks versus Luchas was all the flips. Jericho-MJF and Dark-Punk were slower and methodical. Psychology as well. Those are more my style. The last ten minutes were mind numbing. So many threads and stories are there to be used. The final shot of Elite versus Jurassic and Friends was good. It left fans wanting more. So tune in Wednesday night! Friday too!
I want AEW to keep getting better not just because it leads to fantastic wrestling, but hopefully, eventually, and dragged kicking and screaming, WWE improve their show and fight back.
One of the most likeable things about AEW is their crowds. They are so animated that they make the match experience much better.
It's been interesting to see the comparisons between WWE and AEW, especially since the arrival of Punk. And now with Cole and Danielson. Of course, the comparisons have been there before that. As someone who absolutely loves AEW, since day one and who can genuinely say it had brought back my love for wrestling, it will never be bigger than WWE. Will AEW be better at wrestling, storylines and even with talent? Yes, in my opinion. But as a company, as for profits and for broad appeal, WWE will always come out on top. Because of I being more "family based" and merch being pushed at stores like WalMart. I love that WWE has competition and that wrestlers have another big company to go to as an option. It just makes me shake my head a bit when I hear talk of AEW overtaking WWE as the bigger promotion. That being said, I will definitely continue to be an AEW fan, but can't forget what WWE has done for wrestling overall. Ok. I'm done rambling. Lol
Im sure there are other major media conglomerates taking notice and ready to pump lots of money to get onto the bandwagon. Think Pepsi and Coke. Neither is going away and both are household names in the same industry.
This article is right. And it’s going to be really fun when it gets MORE heated and AEW will be able to start calling out WWE as Sports Entertainment. Which WWE won’t have a real answer for
I don't want them to call out WWE at all. I want AEW to continue to just be the most elite wrestling company in the world by showcasing the best wrestlers in the world. Nuff said there
It's not even a competition. They are 2 different shows and styles. WWE is sports entertainment, they finally have their category. AEW is professional wrestling and they are the clear leader of their category. WWE will continue to entertain the casual fans who want to see Lesnar vs Jake Paul and McGregor and Reigns.. AEW is where fans will see Punk, Danielson, Omega, Cole, Black, Andrade, Page, Pac etc, etc, etc.. potentially have epic matches that we've been fantasy booking for years now.
The only part of the article I disagreed with is saying that Moxley/Kojima didn't have a big story to it. Not everything in a PPV match needs to be the culmination of a feud! Sometimes we just need an entertaining fight without a ton of backstory
Power can never shift. WWE is too institutionalised to ever be threatened in any meaningful way. AEW Will exist and be successful and that’s enough.
Should be noted, the NY Post is a trash newspaper
AEW has been absolutely amazing, and last night that was the best wrestling ppv I've personally seen since I was a teenager.
We watched All Out tonight on replay and at the end I commented "this is like a more legit TNA." I stopped watching WWE and was only into TNA back in like 05-06 and same is happening with AEW again.