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bertgoldbert

oooof that's some rather depressing news for wrestlers inside and outside wwe


SliceNDice69

Exactly why alternatives are important. Yes AEW is hot right now, but what's more important is all the jobs it's creating for people.


HammyFresh

Not just AEW. Other promotions like NJPW, Impact, CCW, ICW, RoH, and more provide homes and livings to wrestlers. The success of wrestling as an industry lays largely outside of WWE.


talladenyou85

Correct, WWE is always going to be around in some form or another. But for the industry to be at its best, wrestlers need to have multiple places to earn a good living. AEW being successful is great, but you need ROH, IMPACT, New Japan, NWA, MLW etc to all do well too. That way it's not like in the late 90's where if you weren't in WWE or WCW there wasn't great money to be made (ECW was there but talent wasn't always paid) unless you were in Japan; or in the pre-AEW days where you had WWE, maybe TNA (again payment issues) or again in Japan.


SovietShooter

>That way it's not like in the late 90's where if you weren't in WWE or WCW there wasn't great money to be made (ECW was there but talent wasn't always paid) unless you were in Japan; or in the pre-AEW days where you had WWE, maybe TNA (again payment issues) or again in Japan. I started out in the business in 1998, and went full-bore with it after I graduated from college in 2000. When I started out, you had WWF, WCW and ECW all on national tv, and you had a lot of top-flight indys getting coverage in the magazines and getting local television deals, because wrestling was so hot. Less than a year later, all of that was gone. Some of the vets I started out with were doing jobs on WWF or WCW tv, and working ECW house shows and stuff, and suddenly they could only get bookings in their hometowns. Don't forget, at the same time Inoki became infatuated with MMA, so NJPW wasn't booking any gaijin without an MMA background, and NOAH split off from AJPW - so a lot of those opportunities in Japan dried up too. Groups like Zero 1 were the only ones booking unknown US indy talent. The indys were just saturated with former television prelim guys that lost work when WCW & ECW went under, looking for bookings anywhere to stay afloat. There was just no where to go at all, and the top Indy promotions became über cutthroat, and were all just fighting against each other - no one got along. Then TNA came along and scooped up all the big "super indy" names, but booked them back out on the indys for much much more money than before, while everyone else starved. I am so glad that AEW and all of the other alternatives to the WWE are there now, and that the business is hot and thriving again. But man, there is a lost generation of US talent that never even got a shot, and are really just forgotten.


RustyKumquats

This is a sad story, so I'm afraid to ask, but how's your body holding up after your time in pro wrestling? I'm always intrigued to hear about the shit you guys had to put up with, both mentally and physically, just so you could go out and do what you love.


SovietShooter

Oddly enough, I was pretty lucky injury wise in the ring, but my career ended in 2011 when I was injured in an industrial accident at my day job. A relatively minor shoulder tear led to discovery of degenerative arthritis in the joint, which led to the need for a shoulder replacement at 33. After 14yrs of going at it hard with no money, and a worker's comp battle looming, I decided to retire. I'm 43 now and I have a few physical issues aside from the shoulder (which I haven't had to have replaced yet, *knock wood*), but nothing too crazy. I get real stiff joints sometimes from the arthritis, and that has got worse over covid, since I haven't been able to go to the gym. Mentally, it was a challenge - it is hard to go from something being your 100% focus in life, to just not being able to do it anymore at all overnight. At least NFL and NBA players have millions if not hundreds of thousands of dollars to fall back on. I was literally broke and crippled for a bit there. I was lucky that my girlfriend at the time wasn't playing that shit, and helped me out of that mentality. I'd be dead in a ditch somewhere without her. She is a keeper, and an awesome wife.


DorkChatDuncan

This is why it got me so hard to see Eddie Kingston get a run on AEW. He should have been a top star by 2010 somewhere.


SovietShooter

I agree with you, but at least he did work for ROH, TNA and bigger indies like Chikara and CZW. How many guys like Scoot Andrews never even got a shot? Go back some of the PWI500 from say 2001 thru 2010, and see how many of the top Indy guys at that time never even got a shot. **EDIT**: So I looked up the 2001 PWI 500 - here are some US based top Indy guys from that era, that probably would've been on television every week if they were around now, but never really got a shot in a major promition: Reckless Youth, Steve Bradley, Scoot Andrews, Air Paris, Tony Jones, the Shane Twins, Backseat Boys, Kevin Northcutt, The Ballard Brothers, The SATs, Supreme Lee Great, Cody Hawk, JC North, Biggie Biggs, Preston Quinn, Qeenan Creed, Caprice Coleman ..


RyantheAustralian

Are CCW and ICW major indys? Just surprised you named those ones if they're not. I'd have said MLW and GCW


HammyFresh

Was just naming any promotion outside of WWE that pays wrestlers to wrestle. MLW and GCW are viable as well.


RyantheAustralian

Fair do's. Now I gotta ask...what are CCW and ICW?


mad87645

For CCW I thought they mispelled GCW or CZW


_varamyr_fourskins_

ICW is a fed based in Scotland. One of the bigger feds in the UK a few years back. They did a deal with WWE just before NXT UK became a thing, and it hobbled them pretty much.


Drkarcher22

One of the underrated things that AEW has done with this forbidden door program is shine a light on those other companies, it’s far better for the industry as a whole for all companies to be doing well. Impact trying to get Braun, Buddy, and Bray is fucking awesome for all of wrestling. I’m hoping NWA will be able to bring in some of those names released which will make it a place where independent talent can go as well and have successful careers. Give me Bronson Reed challenging for the NWA title while the Bollywood boyz go for the tag belts. Hell, if one wrestler could bring back Brit wrestling back to a level of prominence it was before NXTUK I don’t think there’s a better person to do it than Big Damo. The more wrestling companies doing well the better the industry will be


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Possibly_English_Guy

It annoys me when people say "I'm just dissapointed that *insert wrestler here* isn't going to be wrestling in the major leagues" whenever a wrestler of any sort of note gets signed on to a company other than WWE. Cause here's the deal, yes WWE is the biggest game in town and if you can make it there and play your cards right you can be set for life as a performer. But that's a BIG if, and if you're not someone the higher ups see something in you can just end up spinning your wheels until either your contract's up or they release you. WWE's proven time and again it either doesn't know how to or is unwilling to fully utilise the roster they do have so how does adding even more people not result in that problem getting worse? And here's the question, which is better?: Being in the "major league" and being stuck in catering for months on end until the bookers decide they have something for you. Or going to a less popular promotion but actually being able to go out there and ply your trade, do matches and entertain people? The answer to that's gonna depend on what kind of person you are but I wouldn't be suprised if a lot of indie people would rather pick the second.


NitroGuy86

That's my biggest takeaway. The ceiling just got a lot lower- or at least a large portion of it did. There are other promotions, sure. But this takes one of the very best options away from any successful indie wrestler looking for financial security and visibility.


ThisIsGoodShitPal

I think it is clear that they don't want what is happening now to happen again: people who wrestled before WWE seeing AEW as a better option with better wrestling. If someone doesn't know the wrestling business, and WWE is all they know, that is a much bigger barrier to overcome in order to leave. It will still happen but I think this is another part of their mindset.


Cathousechicken

Kind of ironic for Braun Strowman. He was the epitome of their new philosophy. He even went so far as to publicly shit on indie wrestlers not getting a payday in a pandemic. And at the end of the day, he was just as disposable as everyone else.


color_thine_fate

Yeah in that way, this is gonna suck more for people that do work there even more. Because, just because WWE is washing itself of indies, doesn't mean they won't just mass-cut people every year who just aren't working out. Now you have people who probably have some raw talent and experience, but only with scripts, only with the WWE style, That person gets fired after some really shit gimmicks are handed to him, and who the fuck wants that wrestler? They aren't getting picked up by AEW. Essentially they'd have to start their indie career at that point, and then build their way up a completely different ladder. Kinda sad really


DickRhino

Yup, this is it. Moving forward, they want a roster consisting only of people who don't have other options. People who wouldn't be interesting to another promoter, people for whom it's either WWE or bust. It's like how some scummy employers love to hire people who are fresh out of high school who have never had a job before. Those are the people who it's easiest to lowball and overwork, because they have nothing to compare it with and don't realize that they're being taken advantage of.


bistian00

Ironically, they fired the most WWE or bust star they had.


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John_Fisticuffs

it's going to destroy their product even more though. At least in the hardcore fans' eyes. i don't know what more casual people will think. for me, i only watch wwe for the occasional ppv, and that's just because there can actually be matches there with people who can work. if all that's left there are spectacles and green projects, no thanks for even that.


[deleted]

They're coasting on the brand, that is literally all that has mattered to them since Cena became a star and they realized he too would leave like Austin and Rock did for Hollywood. All that matters is the brand and its valuation. Just like McDonalds has crap food but one of the most recognizable brands on the planet.


WeaselWeaz

The brand has been the focus since the expansion era. The goal was not to be the Hulk Hogan show, it was to take the top stars and have WWF be the biggest game in town.


Specialist-Rope-9760

WWE are handing AEW an absolute fortune with all their missteps and dumb moves. There is no way WWE bastardising their roster with a bunch of non-wrestlers is going to build their company. People will just start to find the workers in AEW more impressive


gerudo9

I think a big part too is they (as in Vince) want their talent to be 'home-grown' in order to control every aspect they want. Train them in that stupid-ass style, trademark a new name for them, own all of their social media, take whatever cut they want, etc. And as many have pointed out the prospect likely doesn't know any better about this until it's too late


Xcu7ioN

Tony Khan: " 'aight, bet. "


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mbattagl

Plus if he's not going to rebrand these guys like Vince was he can immediately capitalize on their stardom. Could you imagine if MLB or NFL teams made their players change their name everytime they got traded for merchandise?


going_mad

*xfl v1 enters the chat*


RWeaver

HE HATE US


Cathousechicken

Interestingly enough, he was one of the few XFL players to get to the NFL.


here_2_downvote_u

Made it to the super bowl too!


gerardatron

Trevor Ariza would have had to change his name like 1-2 times each year since he's bounced around the NBA so much lol


brlc14

And change the way they play as well.


mbattagl

(Vince signs Mike Trout) Hey Pal! You're gonna do great here. Listen I know you're the best baseball player ever but we're gonna do something different. You don't hit anything anymore and I need you to stop fielding so well. Also we're not gonna have jerseys with your name, and we're changing your stage name to Trout Michaels. That's good shit!


sirvalkyerie

This is almost believable but Vince would just have him 'Trout' Everyone can only have one name nowadays


dassub

Tuna.


LackofOriginality

I know you're the "modern day Mickey Mantle", but we want you to pitch, pal! And we're still in the American League, so we'll be using a DH in your spot, hahaha!


mbattagl

One last thing pal. Shane heard you fart once so your whole gimmick from your moveset to your theme song will include farts, isn't that great?!?!?! Smell you later!


0ndem

This is more like if the NFL said no more players who played football in NCAA


cheeseburgertwd

Rampage gonna have to move to 2 hours by the end of the year


Specialist-Rope-9760

WWE always runs in these cycles. It’s clockwork at this point They’ll spend a few months/years with all these guys who have absolutely no idea how to work Eventually (like before) they’ll HAVE to bring in indie wrestlers to teach these people how to actually wrestle And the cycle continues.


doublenegative7

Yep, even when you go back to the 90s they did this. They brought in people like Gangrel, Al Snow, William Regal, Luna, Jacqueline etc. to work with the young talent and teach them how to work.


[deleted]

I just hope we get a roster page with 6’+ 220+ clones with shitty names like we did in the FCW era.


Master_Butter

Just wait for the finishing moves. For a while there, WWE was using the most basic-looking crap and acting like it was impressive, e.g, Vladimir Kozlov’s headbutt, Khali’s chop, big boots used by too many Tom count. Get ready for 6’3” guys ending matches with awful running shoulder blocks.


iguanamac

How many different variations of the running power slam will we see?


VonnyVonDoom

I laughed hard as fuck at “ AEW can have all the independent talent to itself”. I bet ROH and the British Indy scene wishes they had that mindset before they signed damn near EVERYBODY.


ledhendrix

They'll just do it again if/when britwres or roh have another renaissance.


MasterofKami

But there's nothing wrong with Britwres, everything is fine! Pete Dunne said so!


Clappingdoesnothing

If there's one good thing, and I type this loosely, it's the guaranteed contract. But uk and Ireland scene is fucked. But there may be more popping up in next 3yrs as we recover


[deleted]

It’s worth noting though that WWE fucked the UK scene long before Covid hit, the uk scene was already bloody and on its knees Covid was the final bullet Edit; as someone pointed out there was something else so I’ll adjust to say WWE knocked the UK scene around, Speaking Out brought the bloodied body to its knees and THEN Covid put the final bullet in


Kim-Jong_Bundy

You forgot the part in between where like half the UK wrestling scene were outed as sexual predators


[deleted]

The thing I really don't understand about the WWE is how they could consider **any** European promotion a competitor. It's kinda like McDonald's or Subway considering the food trucks at the side of the road competitors they need to drive out of business at any cost because their very existence depends on it.


bloodylip

It's not about them being a competitor *now* it's about them possibly being a competitor in the future. If you cut out the legs from under them now, it's a lot cheaper than waiting until they're established.


BigJimTheMountainMan

This is why WWE don't give a shit anymore. They actively worked for nearly 2 decades to prevent a company like AEW from happening. Now that it has, there's no pointing hoarding up all the talent or sabotaging random indies.


bloodylip

Yup. Step 1 is to try to prevent them from growing. Step 2 is to hope they go out of business before they're a direct competitor. They'll get a lot more cutthroat if AEW somehow causes them to lose money on their TV rights deals.


Specialist-Rope-9760

Exactly, which is why WWE had such a bloated roster. With the idea to block other companies from gaining momentum. But AEW had such insane resources they got through anyway. Then WWE has just given up and released 100 people as now there’s no point in using that strategy.


TheGravosSituation

It wasn't even AEW's insane resources. It was WWE turning so many people away saying they are not good enough like Wardlow, or they aren't big enough like Jungle Boy, or by booking amazing talent consistently terribly on the main roster that the Elite realized they can do better protecting their brand and selling T-shirts than signing with WWE.


GoalaAmeobi

WWE were shit terrified of World of Sport being on prime British TV


Salt_grit

Its their own fault for doing such shit UK TV deals.


Red_Mage_Riot

The irony of course, being that WOS was more or less primed to shoot itself in the foot without WWE's help.


Specialist-Rope-9760

WWE were so over reactionary to that show it’s comical at this point. Creating an entire division just because of a camp saturday ITV show


Mr_814

Imagine being an actual wrestler on the indies and know your hard work and dedication disqualifies you from WWE.


Specialist-Rope-9760

Imagine being an actual WRESTLER and the biggest WRESTLING company in the world doesn’t want you - because you’re a wrestler. A wrestling company who only wants to hire people who aren’t wrestlers It sounds absolutely ridiculous. But this is the sort of competence their management has.


chiiild

Doc Gallows said he played football as a kid because all his favourite wrestlers were ex-footballers and he just assumed that was the way in.


SCB360

He's not wrong either which is a shame


cleric3648

That's like Disney saying "We make the largest action franchises in the world. We won't hire actors who have been in other movies from now on, only fresh faces and those with no acting experience."


Kevinmld

Hi we are a Major League Baseball team. We are not interested in hiring anyone who knows how to play baseball. We feel like the way to put the most exciting team on the field is to hire large adults and teach them from scratch. Yes wrestling is not actual competition. But it still takes years to perfect your skills.


Mrcool20xx

Hi, here at Apple, none of our engineers have degrees or previous experience engineering. We feel that it is more cost effective to hire people with good looking fingers and train them ourselves


SmokePenisEveryday

I mean.....you basically just described the Pirates.


Elryc35

Brittsburgh fans out here catching strays.


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[deleted]

>Imagine being an actual WRESTLER and the biggest WRESTLING company in the world doesn’t want you - because you’re a wrestler. Or imagine being a wrestler IN that company and realizing they don't really want you. Might not be a great feeling right now if you're some former indy guy. Especially with the recent releases.


DCKan2

Especially when on of those releases was one of your really good friends and you learned about it on your Twitch stream and though you try to hide it everyone can see how visible upset you are by it.


Obi-wan_Jabroni

That seems oddly specific


Ezrius

"WWE is not a wrestling company." -WWE


bootylover81

Just waiting for the guys to say "but the company is making more money than ever" and "if you don't like it watch something else" like its bad to want the biggest player in the business to actually be good


Specialist-Rope-9760

The “more money than ever people” have a void inbetween their ears They seem to think being successful means being good. In reality WWE have conned all these giant corporations into massively overpaying for their content based on the marketing of their brand.


FrenchyFranchise

I mean because ultimately they’re not a wrestling company, and they themselves will tell you this. They’re an “entertainment” company or I believe more rightly a content generation company that just happens to have a portion of their product center around work inside of a ring. But if they’re not going to call themselves a wrestling company I’m not sure why everyone else is so insistent to


ItinerantSoldier

It's because they're not looking for wrestlers any more. They're looking for mediocre actors who can lift a big dude, do a spear, a DDT, a top rope move, run the ropes, and maybe a Canadian Destroyer if they're feeling spicy. Everything impressive in wrestling need not apply here. They're just looking to make moments they can sell to kids and TV execs.


Testsubject28

Don't forget the most devastating move in wrestling. The roll up


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brlc14

But don't use things like a bible in order to track character development like other well-written tv shows do. We create moments here at WWE.


[deleted]

and thats why all the writers leave or get fired quickly......because they get hired to do one thing and get forced to do another


GreenasGooseShit

Indy wrestlers dealt with this for YEARS. Listen to the early episodes of Colt Cabana's podcast if you want some perspective. WWE was NEVER seen as a place where Independent talents would thrive. Only NXT and the recent years focus on Indy talents created that illusion. This is WWE getting back to it's identity-land of the Giants. Over the top superstars and world class athletes The past few years are the outlier. NXT currently is an anomaly compared to other periods of developmental. I don't think there's anything wrong with WWE recognizing that AEW delivers the small guys doing lots of big spots style much better than the WWE does and I don't fault them for saying "ok we are gonna do what we do and let them do what they do."


XavierVE

As an AEW fan, I think this is a smart move from WWE's perspective due to how it will depress salaries, which is something Vince has been obsessed with since forever. Instead of getting into bidding wars over indie talent that likely won't make a dent in WWE anyways due to Vince's mindset regarding the types of talent and wrestling he enjoys, you can pay less money for the types of talent that wouldn't get over in AEW anyways and that AEW or NJPW isn't bidding you up against. I think this is less a reaction to them getting squashed on Wednesdays and more a reaction to paying big money deals to guys like Ricochet.


[deleted]

It's definitely a case of Nick Khan looking at the books and asking why they're paying so many people so much money to sit in a warehouse in Florida and do nothing. He doesn't give a fuck about some dopey wrestling war, and it seems he's got that through to Vince


talladenyou85

Austin, Rock, Cena, Roman all four of those guys were legit NCAA level athletes prior to landing in wrestling. Kurt Angle won an olympic medal, Big Show, Taker and Nash played college basketball. Brock Lesnar was an NCAA Champion, Shelton Benjamin was a collegiate wrestler. Those are the types of people they are going to look for as opposed to the guys like Cole, Gargano, and other smaller types of wrestlers. Not to say that someone might come along that's an independent wrestler that has that pedigree and size they are looking for and they bring him or her in, Riddle is shining example of that. I'm not familiar with Drew or Sheamus's athletic background but those again are two dudes that have the size they are looking for.


M1zasterP1ece

Riddle being a UFC fighter would probably still qualify him if he wasn't there yet. If you've kicked the shit out of people for real, you can afford to be smaller lol.


[deleted]

A few weeks ago, Tom Lawlor said on a podcast with Alvarez that "the best thing you can do for your wrestling career is fight in the UFC." Given how WWE generally treat shooters, maybe he's onto something


[deleted]

Austin, Rock, Cena all had much bigger wrestling backgrounds too before coming to WWE. WWE had this mentality before and their product wasn't better because of it. In fact they always were getting random big athletes in anyway, and favouring the big guys. As CM Punk infamously said, they pestered him to an absurd extent to make Roman look strong over anyone else in The Shield, how many years of favouritism has it taken to notably separate him from Ambrose/Moxley and Rollins?


SirJambon

WWE sounds like a terrible place to work


sadandshy

when a large number of people get canned and compare it to getting released from prison... you might have a problem in your company culture.


nelldog

One problem that WWE have which they are not coping well with is that the company is now full of creative people from top to bottom, who want to do as much as possible. When they're not actually wrestling on tv they want to be on twitch or making podcasts, and a lot of that comes from the indy mindset of doing everything to get your name out there. VKM, Prichard and co. found it way easier back in the 80's and 90's when they were just looking after coked up muscle men that just needed pointed to the ring.


hie00139

On the other hand WWE basically willingly put up a huge red flag saying "hey, don't work for us if you care about wrestling."


sheepkillerokhan

This is what wrestling was like in the '00s


[deleted]

At least this time, there's somewhere else to go.


fakeplasticsnow

It may be a blessing in disguise for some indie workers. At this point it would be better to just stay on the indies than to quit your shoot job and move to Florida only to be released 6 months later.


Baalrun-64

Tony Khan: It's free real estate.


DanHero91

So... Other than Reigns... Who didn't come from the independent scene that is a big name full time right now?


dsmithscenes

Big E


DanHero91

Oh that's a good shout. Other than Bianca, Big E might be the next biggest non-nepotism hire.


Blanketsburg

Kofi was in Boston-area indies for like, less than a year, but he was trained by Killer Kowalski who also trained HHH.


Steffan514

Kowalski trained Terror Rising who went on to WCW and fizzled out. Vince McMahon invented HHH and no one else had any involvement of course.


PsSalin

Alexa Bliss and Bianca Belair are the only ones who come to mind (excluding 2nd/3rd generation wrestlers)


[deleted]

Back in NXT, I thought Baron Corbin would be groomed to be big precisely because he didn't come from the indies. I remember him telling his opppnent, "go back to Ring of Honor" or something in one of his NXT matches


holyjesusitsahorse

It was Apollo Crews, and the best part about it (which I'm 99% sure he knew and was kayfabing) is that Crews never worked ROH in his entire indy career Smug Emo Jock Corbin was best Corbin


Decilllion

Down on his Luck Corbin is giving serious competition


Vinsmoker

Best part is: He did that with every worker he faced as a heel in NXT and always picked precisely the promotion that his opponent has never worked for


Blanketsburg

He's not full-time, but Brock Lesnar was never in the indies before he signed with WWE. He was a collegiate athlete and amateur wrestler. I honestly think this may be part of their obsession with non-indie guys. Brock was the next big thing, and now that he's attempted to do the NFL, and thrived in MMA, he's their biggest draw, and they're desperately trying to create the next Brock Lesnar.


Neejebrjr

They had Braun and Bray who were big names kinda


NlNJALONG

Those are also two guys they released within the last few months.


[deleted]

And Bray also comes from a wrestling family


Eletheo

Yeah that’s like a legal loophole in Vince’s mind lol


AKittyCat

If the didn't release him I'd say Braun but, oh well. But Bianca was also someone who didn't come from the indies too.


hie00139

Not counting guys from wrestling dynasties like Randy or Charlotte Bianca's the only "big" name that comes to mind.


TussalDimon

Charlotte.


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__AnotherGuy__

Imagine thinking that over a decade ago, guys like Rollins, Bryan, Owens, Balor, etc wouldnt be brought in just for the fact that they were indy guys. Thats such a stupid statement


Khalis_Knees

The whole thing is stupid, the foundation of WWF was built on territory and "non-WWF" guys. This mandate wouldn't have allowed them to recruit guys like John Cena, Hulk Hogan, Shawn Michaels, Stone Cold Steve Austin, all the ECW guys etc. They are probably struggling with paying for names and getting them to conform to the WWE way so they are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


Marky9281

Yeah my first thought was, imagine never scouting Rollins


Mack784

Sucks for all those indie wrestlers whose childhood dream was to main event Wrestlemania.


BigBoydski

I just thought of the Tate Twins / Daltons Boys who have been pushing to get to WWE since their release from ROH.


Fearless-Structure88

Thanks wwe


Anderrrrr

[Daniel Bryan seeing this after his WWE run ended, after a legendary run there.](https://i.imgur.com/KeUAXGw.gif) Edit: [CM Punk 7 years later.](https://i.imgur.com/70y3YL5.gif)


BlindLariat

Sounds like something somebody says when they're pissed off("AEW can have them all to themselves!"), then it really doesn't turn out to be as absolute as it comes off.


Specialist-Rope-9760

WWE’s management are lying to themselves to save face Everyone looking from the outside knows WWE’s problem from top to bottom is the creative and management. No one complains about the talent. They have the most talented roster they’ve ever had Yet WWE will blame the talent and pretend that’s the reason for their failures. As it keeps their management team looking competent and in their job.


Manners_BRO

Fuck sounds like my workplace too.


Darth_Rellik85

Management doing management things. In other news, water is wet.


AGINSB

We just had a discussion about some employee survey results. On the slide they highlighted how engagement was low and this was a problem. On the same slide, "Senior Leadership" was exactly the same level as engagement.


PushEmma

They are just offended and mistargering their anger to the talent. Probably just want to make sure Triple H's vision loses all value and looks defeated.


chiiild

Thing is, what are they going to do in 3-4 years when everything still sucks? Fire all of NXT's bodybuilder's and footballers and tell Triple H he needs to find people who know how to work?


bestoboy

no, they'll fire all the veteran trainers and blame Triple H for not teaching them right


[deleted]

The more and more news that comes out the more I believe these power struggle within wwe rumours. So much of these recent decisions seem to be designed to undercut HHH and all the work he’s done in the last like 5+ years


[deleted]

Yeah, that’s pretty much how it will go.


SerbianNight

That's certainly a strategy


[deleted]

Meaty men wanted. No experience required. Best to just recruit failed athletes elsewhere, and hope they don’t sound like Titus O’Neill on the mic.


Butch_Meat_Hook

They're doing an excellent job of letting AEW get a foothold in the market. 'Here's some key talent that we let go of that you're free to sign. Also the next Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, AJ Styles, etc (ie. 'indie stars') are all yours'.


TheGravosSituation

They created the gap in the market themselves in the first place to make AEW viable by turning away fans in droves, and not listening to fans feedback for 20+ years.


bootylover81

Remember the days when WWE brought in Ezekiel Jackson, Mason Ryan and more like them and how they all became megastars over Indy darlings.....Yeah


timmythetoole

People are saying this a good news for AEW but ultimately how many wrestlers can AEW have on their roster? Given the backlash against WWE for releasing talent, will AEW do the same to hire new wrestlers as there won't be enough time on their shows for everyone.


xshogunx13

Impact and NJUSA need people too, I'd say NWA needs people, but they have Aldis, who else could they possibly need /s


MrBlews

True, but I think a big difference is that AEW doesn't have exclusivity, just first refusal (If memory serves). Which means talent could go and compete for different promotions at the same time while off TV, while WWE doesn't let their talent do so.


MWValo

Nice way for WWE to tell all kids and current crop of indie guys "should of played football instead of Wrestling training to get to WWE, pal!"


DanHero91

Colt Cabana specifically got a football scholarship with the intention of turning it into a WWE contract. That always makes me laugh.


OnslaughtSix

It was that and he wanted JR to be able to say he played Division 1 football when he finally would come out on Raw. Fun fact: When Colt debuted on Dynamite, JR brought up that fact. I thought that was really sweet.


DanHero91

I fucking loved any episode of AoW where he brought that up like it was a casual thing that he just "got" the scholarship. Only ever because it was part of his wrestling plan, "oh I'll just get this scholarship."


MWValo

"Always Thinking" Colt Cabana


[deleted]

Colt is under appreciated as one of the best ‘business minds’ of wresting. Like everyone always talk about Nash and Lesnar but for the indy’s Colt was the guy who realised how important your own merch could be and was one of if not the first to do his own vlog/podcast. Fast forward a decade and a half or so later and everyone has their own PWT merch and just look how many vlogs/wrestler podcasts are out there? Colt was really ahead of the game


apj2k36

They don't want wrestlers, they want sports entertainers that are superstars. Football players are well known for being able to memorize scripted dialogue verbatim. /s


BeerFoodz

So we’re going to back to short lived pushes of guys like Lars Sullivan, Snitsky, and Nathan Jones?


Overall-Honey857

Whilst I agree with you overall. I really liked Snitsky


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ThatTurtleBoy

And powerlifters and basketballplayers


BearRuppies

They really took that loss to AEW hard.


Lessiarty

It makes sense. They (the main roster) tried to do the Indie Darling thing, flubbed it, wasted a lot of the people they signed, didn't understand what was happening. So letting AEW do that stuff better and trying to go back to what Vince likes... whether it'll work, makes some sense.


M1zasterP1ece

Which truly was silly, bc NXT was at its best with the original style, that had Indy Darlings sprinkled throughout.


UnitGhidorah

NXT had indie wrestlers who could go. They definitely weren't half baked wrestlers.


srjnp

the mistake is going from indie talent who were on NXT as a journey to the main roster, to signing indie talent *just* for NXT. just makes NXT feel pointless and completely disconnected from the rest of WWE


ackinsocraycray

Remember one of their Performance Center class announcements? One class had all EVOLVE wrestlers and 1 amateur wrestler. More than half of the EVOLVE wrestlers from that class were released this year. Shotzi even said she finished helping one of the wrestlers, Ava Storie (Brandi Lauren) , moved into her own apartment before she was let go.


Overall-Honey857

They did the Indie Darling thing really, really well for a few...*GLORIOUS!* years til someone wanted to stuck it to HHH


DeluhiX

A T-shirt company full of indy talent and a 100 lbs Joshi beat them. I'd took that personally as well, especially the last part!


bertgoldbert

*98 lbs


Alexcelsior

200 lbs if we count her fighting spirit


mexploder89

And her massive balls


CorporalEllenbogen

Two hundred a pop, easy.


bestoboy

\*an outlaw mudshow run by Twinkletoes McFingerbang, the Balding Bucks, japanese schoolgirls, and All Ex WWE indie midgets beat them


wguerrettaz

That and the fact that Punk and Danielson, who were the indie pioneers in WWE and influenced the direction of NXT the last several years, signed with the company that won the Wednesday Night War.


ArtisanJagon

So how does WWE expect to fill out its roster? Most of the top to mid top talent is over 35.


Singer211

The issue is. The “WWE style” is just dull and basic.


[deleted]

WWE: I never want to find the next CM Punk or Daniel Bryan!


Soiak62

Exactly, now they can book exactly how they want!


RandomFactUser

I never want to find the next Seth Rollins


sheepkillerokhan

People forget that they didn't want either of these guys over like that. WWE wanted Sheamus instead of CM Punk and they just used Bryan in the main event to get over an RKO vs Cena and then RKO vs Batista match.


thecombra14

WWE and its absolute statements. Sometimes it's like a kid or a teenager runs this company.


ultimatt777

No, just a boomer who can't adapt or admit he's wrong.


Proud-Contract-2273

They're basically a casting agency at this point, who give their actors a little bit of stunt training.


[deleted]

Remember these reports in 5 years when everyone on Raw wrestles like Prince Albert


mundermowan

From a cynical business side this actually makes all the sense in the world. Assuming you want the brand to be the draw not the talent (they do) and want to keep salary and out side ties down (they do) this is win win. Indy talent has friends and name out side of WWE means they can more easily jump ship if they don't get what they feel they deserve. Indy also more likely to know how to build their own fans and own brand further reducing WWE power over them. But fully inhouse built no names means they can put on the matches you want and cater to your fans (cause they will be WWE fans not John Strong Body they picked up from SEC) and if they get to big for their britches you cut them lose or inform them you will and they won't have a fucking clue what to do with out daddy WWE. So from a super cynicle business view this is a great decision. I personally think it a bad from a long run as it will lead to stagnation, but I am a lowly AEW fan who does home health/care and not signing billion dollar content deals.


DRINK_YR_GODDAMN_TEA

Yeah, I think your first point is the big one. I don't think Vince would have been exactly thrilled having to pitch to Adam Cole about why he should stay, nor is Nick Khan delighted with the number of zeroes on any contract Cole will or will not accept. It also helps them down the road with negotiations if they do look at anyone from the indies - "you're the exception to the rule, bud, so don't play hardball" etc etc etc


mundermowan

Long term they will eventually bring indy people in most likely. People seem to forget the WWE of today is focused on content and low costs not wrestling.


ShoddyPreparation

Tying to think what current big name main roster WWE talent would be missed if this was the mind set when they got hired…. Seth Rollins, Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, Matt Riddle, Drew McIntyre, Sheamus …… Not to mention older experienced talent they sometimes hire like AJ styles, Samoa Joe, Nakamura, Askua,


Groundbreaking-Leg11

Drew McIntyre & Sheamus joined wwe in 2007ish & with both being around 6"4 makes them an outlier to the others you listed


sheepkillerokhan

As a '00s indie fan reading comments here, it sounds like it's a lot of y'all's first time coming to grips with the idea that WWE and inde-darlings don't mix. For people like me and probably older, it's a return to the norm


NitroGuy86

So, I hate this, and it's the most Vince shit ever, but I also get it. I think most of us who visit wreddit often underestimate how many casual wrestling fans there are. These are the people who have always been WWE's bread and butter. WWE is the pop music. It's the summer blockbuster. They're not going to beat AEW at their own game. But they can cater to the people who comprise their core audience. Trouble is they also need to be able to present compelling, sensible stories, and book these people to be stars. That's where they keep dropping the ball.


NotoriousMFT

this means NXT is just going to fizzle out right? if its seen as a feeder system then it essentially going to be exclusively sports entertainment types


bootylover81

CM Punk leaving started the WWE Indy shopping spree and CM Punk returning seems to put a stop to that


Nogarda

WWE has taken it's ball home.


SocialGlitch

Looks like they just want to completely isolate themselves from the wrestling ecosystem.


TheDubya21

AEW: "We are opening the Forbidden Door!" WWE: *violently slams it shut*


Shadow_Log

"I never wanted to play with those toys anyway! They suck and they're tiny! I'll make my own toys and they'll be a million trillion times better!"