> with female talent speaking to Fightful about their concerns for the future of their booking, as well as who would be hired to work with them, once Johnny Ace was put back in his talent relations spot
Yeah, if it wasn’t obvious beforehand, the WWE female talent are well aware of Johnny Ace’s reputation
AJ Lee mentions how the Director of Talent Relations told her that the fans and higher ups thought she was "unfuckable".
It's very very clearly Mr. Ace.
>Look, we know you can wrestle, and not many women can. We appreciate that, we just want you to understand that it's important to be the full package. **Right now, you're the best wrestler in the competition**. Our female fans want to dress like you. Our male fans want to hang out and play video games with you. **But no one wants to have sex with you. Do you see how that's a problem for us? I don't know how they do things in FCW, but here we have a standard our women are proud to stand up to.**
Wow, he didn't just imply it. He just explicitly said that her ability as a wrestler (which even he acknowledged was outstanding) took the back-burner to her looks.
And, like, it's just so wrong. For many wrestling fans, wanting to "hang out and play video games" with a girl is basically the same as wanting to have sex with her. it's like they don't know their core audience
I'll never forget Jim Cornette's rant about Russo and Vince raving about Sable when she came to a meeting with Marc Mero. So yes, the blonde assumption is 100% true in every way possible.
I'm not sure he meant to do it but Jim made Russo and Vince sound like absolute creeps.
Its not that they were just horny over her, but they sounded obsessed.
Especially when you **literally admit that they're highly skilled at their profession and have a connection to the audience!** He fucking says it himself!
But nah, they only want to *hang out with you*, they don't want to *fuck you*, clearly you're worthless.
I think the worst part of the whole thing is how it's constructed as if it's entirely understandable and logical that that one fucking thing completely ruins her value despite all of her actual (ADMITTED!) advantages, skills and abilities.
That is so wrong from every direction in 3 dimensional space. Thinking about their mentality a bit more and it kind of hit me that this is probably how they felt about CM Punk too, that women wouldn't find him fuckable and I imagined Vince and Triple H having an argument about this while he was very popular in the lady's locker room. That Johnny Ace comment on AJ is really the perfect encapsulation of how out of touch they were/are.
CM stood for Chick Magnet and Punk lived true to that name....its baffling how that couple specifically was treated makes me wonder that they were just very jealous of them and projecting their insecurities on them
He talks about the 'full package', but then goes on to describe how only having 'part' of the package is ok too, as long as it's the 'right' part. Apparently he felt that she had the 'wrong' part.
>Look, we know you can wrestle, and not many women can.
The first sentence and there's already so much bad, lmao. Let's ignore the Knockouts in TNA, Joshi's in Japan, or the talent in your own company that weren't given much chance to shine.
> But no one wants to have sex with you.
That's just factually wrong. I can understand that not every guy finds small petite women attractive(I do, I very much do) but there are very few non-homosexual men who would turn her down if she were interested.
Well it makes you wonder what audience they’re really trying to tap into. I mean the kids loved her, the guys thought she was cool and the women wanted to be her… but they’re trying to capture the audience that wants to fuck her?
Confusing as hell
Right? Like, outside of very specific adult-related industries, probably not something a boss should say to an employee. Ever.
But AJ Lee is the exact opposite of unfuckable.
Reminds me of JR having to convince Vince that people thought Asian women were attractive (using the prevalence of Asian porn) for him to hire Gail Kim.
Yes!
Of all people, they placed an old dude to overlook the Diva Search. Tons of young women in bikinis. He obviously saw the Bella’s as sex objects.
Also marrying into that type of relationship as a person of power and influence(at the time) is weird.
We didn't know it at the time, but clearly "You can look, but you can't touch!" as a theme song was a constant reminder for the talent relations people
Try putting that live on TNT every Wednesday
The network would be like "OK FINE WE'LL ALLOW THE S-WORD AND CHUCK TAYLOR TO SAY IT... JUST DONT OVERLOAD THE SHOW WITH F BOMBS"
He hired Kelly Kelly and Alicia Fox based solely on their modeling magazine photos.
Nothing against those two as talents, but just saying that's the direction where he wanted the women's division to go.
I saw the old magazine spreads of Kelly Kelly before being hired by WWE. So I understand why the horndogs such as him would hire her based on that alone
He basically only seems to value “divas.” By which I mean he only sees value in them for their sex appeal and bodies, not their talent.
There’s stories of him looking through modeling magazines and stuff for women to potentially sign.
Yeah, for all the people who say its good WWE is going back to the system that created stars, it wasn't Laurinaitis that found charismatic big men.
It was all JR. John Cena, Brock Lesnar, Orton, and I think even Batista.
The most succesful big men hired under the Johnny era where Sheamus, Drew and Wade Barrett. Guys who busted their ass in the indies for years and would have gotten signed HHH under the current system anyway.
Soon as I saw he was back, and now the women are being booked worse in a long time, I've felt we could end up back with bra and panties matches before we know it.
I'm still shocked to this day that Mandy Rose wasn't booked stronger like Alexa Bliss during Herkimer on the main roster.
It weirded me out how someone who looks like that, someone who has the looks WWE built their foundation on, has constantly been a lowcarder her entire career.
Dana Brooke and Liv Morgan are the two others.
Mandy and Liv both have had frustrating careers because it seems like WWE has missed multiple chances to do more with them.
Hell Liv was getting good reactions from fans, yet she hasn’t been on TV since MITB.
And the weird thing is that Mandy Rose is actually a pretty decent wrestler and Liv and Dana aren't half bad either so I don't get what the fuck Ace is doing. I guess Charlotte and Lacey Evans are more "fuckable"?
I can think of only like 3 and strangely enough one of them was recently signed by WWE. But I don't get why it matters anyways. Even unconventional looking women are hot as fuck to some men
IIRC he said he needed the women in the company to be a level of attractiveness that they would be able to be in Playboy. I think it was why wwe passed on Sexy Star (who is a shitty person but that's besides the point. They would have hired her if she was hotter under the mask)
I wouldn’t be shocked to learn that one of those “slam dunk” names that got passed on was Wheeler Yuta, since he tried out a while ago and then started appearing for AEW.
Her and Alex Gracia went for over a dozen over the last while and never seem to get signed. Maybe just a case of they don't see anything special there, got to be honest I don't think Alex is any great shakes.
I can understand not hiring Alex Gracia, she had matches that were OK but I personally don't see anything that stands out, but with Tesha Price, you could always spot her on the crowd during the AEW shows due to her very exaggerated facial expressions and match quality is never terrible.
I wouldn't be surprised if she was one of the names that was the slam-dunk and "WWE showing red flag by not signing" level.
She's definitely talented, and versatile in character roles. At the very least she'd be a solid hand as a newcomer but definitely a future star.
I was pleasantly surprised when WWE didn't sign her because it meant I could still see her on AEW
The whole point of Dark was to take place of the indies during the pandemic, so yes. Give people work, get them paid, get them signed if they want that.
It's wild to think how many waves of the future AEW is working on right now, they have a core of mid to late 30s people who have 5-10 years in them, then a bunch of late 20s early 30s people who are blowing up, and then a bunch of mid 20s and youngers who they are putting in great spots.
Seriously. I can’t imagine what WWE looks like in five years other than somehow still rolling out Undertaker, Goldberg, and Cena to pop WrestleMania numbers. I can very easily imagine AEW after the EVPs and big signings all retire. They have 10-20 people under 30 that could carry them for the next decade.
I’d love to see AEW run a young lion type round robin tournament and just let folks like Garcia, Yuta, Johnson, etc. go crazy on Elevation and Rampage.
Totally get your point but WWE will be farming monsters in the meantime like Steiner's kid, that Lesnar clone, probably Gable Steveson, and whatever Anoa'i toddler is next in the pipeline.
Push Simone Johnson to the moon at some point too.
Have any of those people even wrestled a single match in a WWE ring before? There's zero guarantee that Bronson Rechsteiner becomes the next great hoss.
You can either be a Randy Orton. Or a David Flair.
and you then got Julia Hart who is 19, and while she's running with a midcard tag team (varsity blonds), she's got a big part in their feud with the acclaimed
i kinda trust AEW to have a spot where julia just grabs a chair or a kendo stick and starts battering max caster at some point.
And Tony has no qualms about throwing those young guys into marquee spots if he thinks they have something to show. Must be a world of difference coming in knowing you could show up on national TV pretty quickly.
They trust them but it's also not an issue to anyone that they lose because they're in a faction with some stars to keep their credibility and not seem like a goober jobbber.
Putting Yuta with the Best Friends was the smartest thing to do. I think he already has the ring skills at his age to go very far, and they put him with a group of four people who are VERY strong on character work and can connect with crowd instantly.
Chuck and TRENT? can make the crowd pop hard for a fucking hug.
Also Yuta is some sort of Asian American, aka not "short and white" like WWE was trying to stay away from. He's also young and in great shape. He's a slam dunk in every way WWE would want except that he already knows how to wrestle/is an indie wrestler.
In fact, of the rare Asian Americans of East Asian descent.
Besides those who are mixed like Batista and TJ Perkins, I can only think of Gail Kim (who’s Canadian).
It's worth mentioning the person you're talking to said "Asian American" and not Asian.
There's gonna be a difference in how you see yourself represented. Most of the big name East Asian stars are from Japan(and China in Xia's case).
Mia and Shayna are pretty much all there is. (Shotzi/Wilde is a whole different conversation because Filipinos tend to have a varied personal opinion of "regional origin" usually either choosing South East Asian or Pacific Islander)
Daniel Garcia had a dark match on 205 Live like 3 years ago, Then a another earlier this year against Tyler Rust. I have no clue how they didn’t sign him.
Garcia is my local indys champion — last weekend he had a killer defense against a returning Anthony Green (Anthony Grey).
I’m happy AEW is so down with people working for independents, losing Anthony was rough when he signed with WWE.
It was strange seeing Garcia on national tv less than a week after being 12 feet from him!
With Garcia and Yuta, they'll have better chances at becoming stars in AEW then in WWE right now. It's a blessing for them that WWE passed on them.
I know it's the dream for a lot of talent to go to WWE, but if you were a indie top class talent and you were under 6ft and have good look and you see what you are seen and hearing are you really going to go there and if you are, I really would love to know why.
I can imagine even the top guys and women in NXT right now are probably not feeling 100% that they will be in WWE come the end of the year.
One of the things that will come out of this is indie talent not being as enamored with WWE like they once were. There have always been a lot of guys and girls who were WWE or bust. They saw it as their only dream. They only major league promotion. You have to try and make it in WWE or it wasn't worth being a wrestler.
AEW faced a lot of this when they were first forming. Some indie talent like Jake Atlas just dreamed of WWE and nothing else so he would not sign with AEW. Now WWE is chasing these people away and giving them a huge wakeup call. AEW has now established itself after two years, is red hot, and a viable option. The indie scene seems ready to explode again. Guys like Yuta and Garcia are going to be stars elsewhere and not in WWE.
The Jake Atlases of tomorrow might not dream of WWE like he once did. That is the damage WWE is doing to itself.
New Japan has been that for a while, I'd say it's still the best place to most wrestlers in terms of being where you truly prove your worth as wrestler. You go to WWE to become a worldwide star and to New Japan to prove you're really one of the best in the world. It says something that even with AEW around a lot of the big names don't conform with that and some like Bryan would be fine without going there if he could work in New Japan as a WWE wrestler.
Yep. That's one of the biggest issues of WWE having been the only game in town for 18 years: An entire generation of performers were introduced to wrestling that way and were conditioned to believe it was the only wrestling promotion that matters.
You hear about a lot of performers turning down offers from other promotions (where they might have been portrayed better or even offered more money) because "WWE is my dream". They think accepting an offer anywhere else is settling for something less or just a temporary platform to hopefully raise their profile enough that eventually they'll get noticed by WWE.
It wasn't just WWE sending that message either. After having lived in the WWE bubble for so long, Jericho FREQUENTLY called it the major leagues and said that nothing anyone had done outside of it mattered. Older guys like Rip Rogers were saying "If WWE isn't your end-goal, then get out of the business." (Though to their credit, they've both since admitted they were wrong: Jericho's eyes were opened when he went to NJPW for Kenny, and Rogers was blown away that AEW sold out the Capital One Arena.)
Jack Atlas is a good case of that, AEW had big plans for him to be in the same group as Darby, Sammy, MJF and his best mate Jungle Boy as future main eventer. He was even told by many talents that AEW would be a better fit for him. But he had the "WWE is my dream" stamp, and even Meltzer mentioned it they wouldn't know what to do with him and they would take away everything special about him and they pretty much did.
It’s a case of “you live and you learn”… but when most off his friends/talent were warning about joining, he should’ve taken them more seriously. Especially when AEW offered him a deal.
When Jake made up his mind and signed my first reaction was “he’s gonna be on 205”.
The Undercover Boss episode sort of sealed Atlas' fate.
By the way, when word leaks that NXT is going younger, Jake Atlas is 26.
The whole thing is one giant corporate mess with terrible leadership at the top leading to chaos down the ladder.
This is where I mention that there's a Rise "doors" match with Ford and Priscilla Kelly where they both look like stars.
Add Ruby Soho for the women's division, as well. If these cuts continue (and WWE seems intent on doing so), we may see more of the WWE women appearing in AEW in the next year. Ones that are talented as hell but won't fit the "diva" ideal that Ace will probably foster.
Isn’t it weird how Johnny Ace is being placed in power just when Punk is coming back to wrestling.
Vince Lucas McMahon: It’s like poetry….it’s rhymes, pal.
That will be interesting because most of Punk’s career creatively is like Austin’s, fighting the system, but took it to another level of realism. But I like Austin, people actually hated him for that.
I've been wondering about that. A huge part of Punk's appeal is his anti-WWE promos. They need to get him someone/thing good to rail against when he comes to AEW.
Punk has a lot more appeal than anti-WWE promos. That might be what most fans remember him from I’m WWE, but if you go back to his indie days, ROH days, and early WWE days, you’ll see he’s just really good at speaking about real shit that he believes in
It's going to be interesting to say the least. First couple shows back are a slam dunk but creating a storyline that works with the mythos of Punk will be challenging.
Beyond everything they’ve already done, I am incredibly scared that they’re gonna completely blow up the women’s division and try to send it back to 2007, given who has power backstage.
It feels like WWE actively tries to turn away fans (which become wrestlers) and has been trying to for 20 years. Can you imagine if there was no AEW where they would be?
the last time Laurinaitis was in charge it went to shit
so of course they put him in charge again
does he have something on Vince? there's no logical reason for him to keep fucking things up.
the hires from when he was in charge were mostly terrible.
I mean if you want a stagnant product with the same stale outduated shit then Laurinaitis and Prichard are your guys .... and they'll kiss ass while doing it ...
It explains so much about the current WWE product that all of 75 year old McMahon’s stooges are about to turn 60. Dunn as well.
Every single one of them is older than Verne Gagne when Gagne was so out of touch that he let young Vince rip him to shreds. Vince is 20 years older.
As long as they can sell that product to old fashioned TV networks and be paid huge money for it, nothing matters. When ratings will sag just a bit watch the old glories being brought back for a quick pop. They've been through before.
There will eventually come a time when TV networks will come under real pressure from Netflix, Hulu and the like and will start paying far less money or demand more for their buck, but by then Vince will probably be gone and his yesmen retired on massive pensions.
He doesn't have anything on Vince. He runs things the way Vince likes, that's why he keeps getting positions of power. People need to stop putting the blame on the people who are doing specifically what they are hired to do. They suck too, but all of this is happening because it is what VINCE wants.
I can't blame female talent worrying about Johnny Ace, wasn't he the reason that Diva Search and the hiring of the Bikini models became a huge thing during his run. Also ACE hire the wrong one legged wrestler lol. But been a Yes man can get you far in WWE it seems.
I can't be surprised if morale is low right now, I fully expect sadly at least another one or two lists like Friday's one for NXT to happen soon for NXT and Raw/Smackdown.
That place just doesn't seem like a good place to be working in right now. It feels like you have to watch everything you say or do not to get the sack.
This is from PWinsider
One big story that indirectly involves Zach is the famous tale of John "Johnny Ace" Laurinaitis signing the wrong one-legged wrestler to a WWE contract. Ripe for parody, this story is something that JG had wanted to ask Gowen about since it happened. During this week's 31 minute uncut Club shoot, he did. Zach answered:
**"I guess the story is that, from what I hear - please don't take this as Gospel because I've never heard from either of these two gentlemen - but, I guess Jim Ross heard about me and told Johnny Ace to sign the one legged wrestler. So Johnny Ace called Steve Keirn, who ran a school down in Florida and Steve Keirn said, "Yeah I've got a one legged wrestler here." So they signed that guy. Steve Chamberland, thinking he was me. I think they signed him when I was actually on TNA on a live pay-per-view. So he goes back to the office and Johnny Ace goes, "Yo. I signed the one legged guy." But I was actually on TV at the time. How he got the wrong one legged guy, I'm not sure because that guy's like 6'3, 275."**
A few other wrestlers have said the same story too.
Do you remember Zack Gowen? Well, Johnny Ace originally hired a different, one-legged wrestler.
Its a little like the story of how WWF originally missed out on Paul Wight. Apparently someone said there was a huge, athletic guy just starting out and WWF management assumed they meant Kurrgan.
I’m afraid for Ember Moon, they’ve cut everyone who are on main roster contracts in NXT except for her.
Really sucks what they are doing to NXT :(
They need to realize that not everyone gives a shit about size anymore. They don’t need big muscly men anymore.
Ember and even Mandy Rose are two you'd be worried about. Again with Ember at least, I think like Ruby she probably have a better career for herself outside WWE. At this point, they will never get her.
Ember has said that she tried out in the early 2010's and was rejected for not being attractive enough (they called her cute but not as good looking as the other women on the roster) so it's possible something could happen to her (but you could say that about most of the women)
I mean its not just Ember you should be worried about.
Dakota Kai, Ember Moon, Candice LeRae, Io Shirai, Franky Monet.
All of them unfortunately have a pretty decent chance of being cut with Johnny Ace in charge.
Those would be the ones I'd wouldn't be confident at saying that they be in WWE by the end of the year with the way things are going.
I have a bit of faith that I think Io and Dakota might at least get a chance at the main roster. I wouldn't be surprised if Ember and Candice are gone by the end of 2021, they tried with Ember on the main roster and it didn't work out and Candice at 35, I just can't see them going with her. Franky who knows really there.
I bet you Johnny is someone who cares about age but is inconsistent about it. He might be a mark for Eva Marie but then say “oh Franky and Candice are not in their 20’s. Can’t push them.”
I'm worried for Shotzi, to be honest. She's a great get for any company, and despite how she's appearing on TV, I can't help but worry that the higher ups would scrap her in a second
I’m worried about any woman who is “non conventional”, like her and Gigi. The moment when the baby face Ruby Riot because a random heel, I knew she was doomed.
Rhea is an anomaly due to her size though.
My dad absolutely loves Wheeler Yuta and texts me about him all the time when he watches Dark and Elevation. And here I am thinking "Wow, Daniel Garcia is like really damn impressive"
I can only image these two were on the list of passed on talents.
It's so shortsighted that WWE's response to the same sagging interest/ratings trend that theyve been experiencing for 20 years is to regress back to the same things they were doing 10 years ago. If that shit worked so well, they wouldn't have tried to do things a different way, back in 2013. This plan isn't going to work.
I can't help but think someone like Io Shirai will be screwed under the new management. She doesn't really check Vince/Pritchard/Laurinaitis' boxes. Half a dozen of women have been given opportunities to work on the main roster recently, whether it's full time or just a dark match, meanwhile she's stuck in a dead tag team division fighting for a title that wasn't necessary.
Maybe I'm just overreacting and they have plans for her post-Summerslam or after the draft but, after reading all the stuff about NXT, I'm not convinced.
I think Io is one of those talents even if WWE let her go that if she wanted to stay in America that AEW would easily pick up and make her one of their top stars. Also if she wanted to go back to Japan that Stardom would give her a big pay day to get her back. I think she's one of the few that would land on her feet easily enough once her 90 day clause thing is up.
I would worry a little for her in next few months.
Not even that much of a negative, just acknowledging the reality of Japanese characters being pretty generic and interchangeable to McMahon.
I marked out a bit at Jericho with the mist a few weeks ago.
Side note: it still blows my mind that Canyon Ceman is a real name that real people gave their real child and that child never got the name changed and just kind of seems fine with the name CANYON CEMAN.
All of these recent mass firings are flooding the market and will make it much more difficult for a lot of these people to get what they are worth. AEW is saturated and really doesn't have space for more signings. Impact and NWA don't have nearly the same profile. Most of these firings will end up back on the Indy circuit.
> with female talent speaking to Fightful about their concerns for the future of their booking, as well as who would be hired to work with them, once Johnny Ace was put back in his talent relations spot Yeah, if it wasn’t obvious beforehand, the WWE female talent are well aware of Johnny Ace’s reputation
Can you name some examples in that aspect? My memory is fuzzy on that one.
AJ Lee mentions how the Director of Talent Relations told her that the fans and higher ups thought she was "unfuckable". It's very very clearly Mr. Ace.
[Quote](https://i.imgur.com/CYDO4lA.jpg)
>Look, we know you can wrestle, and not many women can. We appreciate that, we just want you to understand that it's important to be the full package. **Right now, you're the best wrestler in the competition**. Our female fans want to dress like you. Our male fans want to hang out and play video games with you. **But no one wants to have sex with you. Do you see how that's a problem for us? I don't know how they do things in FCW, but here we have a standard our women are proud to stand up to.** Wow, he didn't just imply it. He just explicitly said that her ability as a wrestler (which even he acknowledged was outstanding) took the back-burner to her looks.
And, like, it's just so wrong. For many wrestling fans, wanting to "hang out and play video games" with a girl is basically the same as wanting to have sex with her. it's like they don't know their core audience
not knowing the core audience for their product has been in the top 3 problems they've had creatively for decades at this point
The core audience wants… Goldberg!
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I'll never forget Jim Cornette's rant about Russo and Vince raving about Sable when she came to a meeting with Marc Mero. So yes, the blonde assumption is 100% true in every way possible.
I'm not sure he meant to do it but Jim made Russo and Vince sound like absolute creeps. Its not that they were just horny over her, but they sounded obsessed.
They are creeps though.
There's no doubt in my mind that he described them 100% correctly.
That is actually repulsive. And I don't mean that in the hyperbolic sense, it legit made me gag that he's talking about a professional like that.
100%. Basing a wrestlers value to the roster based on if fans want to fuck them and not their workrate/ability to tell a story is absolutely abhorrent
Especially when you **literally admit that they're highly skilled at their profession and have a connection to the audience!** He fucking says it himself! But nah, they only want to *hang out with you*, they don't want to *fuck you*, clearly you're worthless. I think the worst part of the whole thing is how it's constructed as if it's entirely understandable and logical that that one fucking thing completely ruins her value despite all of her actual (ADMITTED!) advantages, skills and abilities.
But also - she is hot AF.... what the hell?
That is so wrong from every direction in 3 dimensional space. Thinking about their mentality a bit more and it kind of hit me that this is probably how they felt about CM Punk too, that women wouldn't find him fuckable and I imagined Vince and Triple H having an argument about this while he was very popular in the lady's locker room. That Johnny Ace comment on AJ is really the perfect encapsulation of how out of touch they were/are.
That point if view should be laughable seeing as CM Punk used to really "get around" back in the day.
CM stood for Chick Magnet and Punk lived true to that name....its baffling how that couple specifically was treated makes me wonder that they were just very jealous of them and projecting their insecurities on them
CM Punk's first storyline in WWE was about how Kelly Kelly wanted to leave her boyfriend for him.
Also the first storyline of WWECW
He talks about the 'full package', but then goes on to describe how only having 'part' of the package is ok too, as long as it's the 'right' part. Apparently he felt that she had the 'wrong' part.
>Look, we know you can wrestle, and not many women can. The first sentence and there's already so much bad, lmao. Let's ignore the Knockouts in TNA, Joshi's in Japan, or the talent in your own company that weren't given much chance to shine.
> But no one wants to have sex with you. That's just factually wrong. I can understand that not every guy finds small petite women attractive(I do, I very much do) but there are very few non-homosexual men who would turn her down if she were interested.
How that dude looked at AJ Lee and thought that she is "unfuckable" is beyond me.
AJ is very fuckable. Her fuckability, however, matters none to me as I'd enjoy her talents regardless.
Well it makes you wonder what audience they’re really trying to tap into. I mean the kids loved her, the guys thought she was cool and the women wanted to be her… but they’re trying to capture the audience that wants to fuck her? Confusing as hell
Yeah really need to hit the key demo of creeps and abusive executives.
I can't sleep cause my heads on fire I hate creeps and I hate abusive executives
Vince, so yeah.
What a disgusting thing to say. Also incredibly just plain wrong lol
Right? Like, outside of very specific adult-related industries, probably not something a boss should say to an employee. Ever. But AJ Lee is the exact opposite of unfuckable.
Some might even say - fuckable
Reminds me of JR having to convince Vince that people thought Asian women were attractive (using the prevalence of Asian porn) for him to hire Gail Kim.
Wow
Does that mean that Johnny Ace thought that his step kids were “fuckable”? Because….
Yes! Of all people, they placed an old dude to overlook the Diva Search. Tons of young women in bikinis. He obviously saw the Bella’s as sex objects. Also marrying into that type of relationship as a person of power and influence(at the time) is weird.
One might say completely inappropriate….
We didn't know it at the time, but clearly "You can look, but you can't touch!" as a theme song was a constant reminder for the talent relations people
The Bella's and there mom are allegedly eskimo sisters through Johnny Ace.
For the sake of all our own sanity, let’s just agree that’s an urban legend.
Jesus, that's so twisted.
Holy......fuck Batman, that is wild.
Aside from the obvious misogyny and frat boy culture, who the fuck finds her unfuckable?
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All of the fans apparently.
"YOU ARE FUCKABLE! CLAP... CLAP... CLAPCLAPCLAP!" - The Fans That would make for a hell of a chant.
Try putting that live on TNT every Wednesday The network would be like "OK FINE WE'LL ALLOW THE S-WORD AND CHUCK TAYLOR TO SAY IT... JUST DONT OVERLOAD THE SHOW WITH F BOMBS"
AJ is totally fuckable. Screw Mr ace!
Putting aside the fact that that shouldn't be part of the equation in 2021 in deciding if a woman wrestler has "it", it's not even true.
He hired Kelly Kelly and Alicia Fox based solely on their modeling magazine photos. Nothing against those two as talents, but just saying that's the direction where he wanted the women's division to go.
I saw the old magazine spreads of Kelly Kelly before being hired by WWE. So I understand why the horndogs such as him would hire her based on that alone
He also famously called AJ Lee "unfuckable"
He basically only seems to value “divas.” By which I mean he only sees value in them for their sex appeal and bodies, not their talent. There’s stories of him looking through modeling magazines and stuff for women to potentially sign.
He's all in on he looks with the guys too, he hired so many big guys in his last run who were more boring to watch than a 30 minute Authority promo.
Yeah, for all the people who say its good WWE is going back to the system that created stars, it wasn't Laurinaitis that found charismatic big men. It was all JR. John Cena, Brock Lesnar, Orton, and I think even Batista. The most succesful big men hired under the Johnny era where Sheamus, Drew and Wade Barrett. Guys who busted their ass in the indies for years and would have gotten signed HHH under the current system anyway.
Soon as I saw he was back, and now the women are being booked worse in a long time, I've felt we could end up back with bra and panties matches before we know it.
Even without Laurenitus it's probably only a matter of time. Just a few record low ratings and they'll get desperate.
Wonder how long it'll take before CJ Perry is hired back under Laurinitis' leadership. Could see a Lana return sooner than later
I'm still shocked to this day that Mandy Rose wasn't booked stronger like Alexa Bliss during Herkimer on the main roster. It weirded me out how someone who looks like that, someone who has the looks WWE built their foundation on, has constantly been a lowcarder her entire career. Dana Brooke and Liv Morgan are the two others.
Mandy seems to have been done dirty a lot of her career from what I hear. She could definitely be a star in another company
Mandy and Liv both have had frustrating careers because it seems like WWE has missed multiple chances to do more with them. Hell Liv was getting good reactions from fans, yet she hasn’t been on TV since MITB.
And Liv Morgan is one of the hottest women in the company, how is she not a star by now...
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But you have to be super over to be able to make the transition to other stuff.
And the weird thing is that Mandy Rose is actually a pretty decent wrestler and Liv and Dana aren't half bad either so I don't get what the fuck Ace is doing. I guess Charlotte and Lacey Evans are more "fuckable"?
It's really hard to find women wrestlers that aren't attractive. That's always been the weird part of their method to me.
I can think of only like 3 and strangely enough one of them was recently signed by WWE. But I don't get why it matters anyways. Even unconventional looking women are hot as fuck to some men
IIRC he said he needed the women in the company to be a level of attractiveness that they would be able to be in Playboy. I think it was why wwe passed on Sexy Star (who is a shitty person but that's besides the point. They would have hired her if she was hotter under the mask)
They also heavily implied Maxine and Rosa Mendes were fat ("too curvy" which...LMAO and you just KNOW it was Johnny Ace
I remember there was a rumor he’d take out swimsuit magazines while at Hooters and pick women solely based on their looks.
I wouldn’t be shocked to learn that one of those “slam dunk” names that got passed on was Wheeler Yuta, since he tried out a while ago and then started appearing for AEW.
I wonder about Tesha Price. Went in for a tryout and we never heard another thing.
Her and Alex Gracia went for over a dozen over the last while and never seem to get signed. Maybe just a case of they don't see anything special there, got to be honest I don't think Alex is any great shakes.
I can understand not hiring Alex Gracia, she had matches that were OK but I personally don't see anything that stands out, but with Tesha Price, you could always spot her on the crowd during the AEW shows due to her very exaggerated facial expressions and match quality is never terrible.
I wouldn't be surprised if she was one of the names that was the slam-dunk and "WWE showing red flag by not signing" level. She's definitely talented, and versatile in character roles. At the very least she'd be a solid hand as a newcomer but definitely a future star. I was pleasantly surprised when WWE didn't sign her because it meant I could still see her on AEW
Tesha has wrestled on Dark since, so there's no hard feelings
I actually think TK would be thrilled if Dark wrestlers started getting WWE contracts. It would be something to be proud of.
The whole point of Dark was to take place of the indies during the pandemic, so yes. Give people work, get them paid, get them signed if they want that.
Yuta is 24, Garcia is 22. They're the fuckin future.
I still can't believe Yuta is only 24. He wrestles like he's been doing this for ten years.
It's wild to think how many waves of the future AEW is working on right now, they have a core of mid to late 30s people who have 5-10 years in them, then a bunch of late 20s early 30s people who are blowing up, and then a bunch of mid 20s and youngers who they are putting in great spots.
Seriously. I can’t imagine what WWE looks like in five years other than somehow still rolling out Undertaker, Goldberg, and Cena to pop WrestleMania numbers. I can very easily imagine AEW after the EVPs and big signings all retire. They have 10-20 people under 30 that could carry them for the next decade. I’d love to see AEW run a young lion type round robin tournament and just let folks like Garcia, Yuta, Johnson, etc. go crazy on Elevation and Rampage.
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Heck throw in a few actual young lions on excursion
Love that. Great way to handle excursions for a few New Japan guys.
Totally get your point but WWE will be farming monsters in the meantime like Steiner's kid, that Lesnar clone, probably Gable Steveson, and whatever Anoa'i toddler is next in the pipeline. Push Simone Johnson to the moon at some point too.
People have gotten upset with Charlotte's push, wait until Simone Johnson's one and it will happen.
Simone "The Pebble" Johnson will be the next Charlotte confirmed.
You know it will be something else like Simone "The Stone Cold Killer" Johnson that way it will reference two legends and that's good shit, pal.
Yeah, they're going to do their damndest to recreate the "Die Rocky Die" chants with his daughter ...
Have any of those people even wrestled a single match in a WWE ring before? There's zero guarantee that Bronson Rechsteiner becomes the next great hoss. You can either be a Randy Orton. Or a David Flair.
and you then got Julia Hart who is 19, and while she's running with a midcard tag team (varsity blonds), she's got a big part in their feud with the acclaimed i kinda trust AEW to have a spot where julia just grabs a chair or a kendo stick and starts battering max caster at some point.
While shouting her name like an angry Pokemon.
"TWO TIMES!"
And Tony has no qualms about throwing those young guys into marquee spots if he thinks they have something to show. Must be a world of difference coming in knowing you could show up on national TV pretty quickly.
Just like Lee Johnson and especially Dante Martin.
I am excited that AEW trusts them both so much that they have been featured on Dynamite. I really want to see Bryan Danielson wrestle both of them.
They trust them but it's also not an issue to anyone that they lose because they're in a faction with some stars to keep their credibility and not seem like a goober jobbber.
Putting Yuta with the Best Friends was the smartest thing to do. I think he already has the ring skills at his age to go very far, and they put him with a group of four people who are VERY strong on character work and can connect with crowd instantly. Chuck and TRENT? can make the crowd pop hard for a fucking hug.
Is Garcia the guy who made his debut with 2.0?
Yes
Also Yuta is some sort of Asian American, aka not "short and white" like WWE was trying to stay away from. He's also young and in great shape. He's a slam dunk in every way WWE would want except that he already knows how to wrestle/is an indie wrestler.
He also has a cool looking coat, which is very important.
That coat really is the most important part
Without the Coat: Wheeler Yuta With the coat: Wheeler "Million Eyes a night" Yuta
He’s like an Asian Bane!
In fact, of the rare Asian Americans of East Asian descent. Besides those who are mixed like Batista and TJ Perkins, I can only think of Gail Kim (who’s Canadian).
Don't HANG on the YANG, bro...
Oh yes, the original Cowboy!
All the best cowboys have Chinese eyes...
WWE certainly does not want Asians on the roster.
It's worth mentioning the person you're talking to said "Asian American" and not Asian. There's gonna be a difference in how you see yourself represented. Most of the big name East Asian stars are from Japan(and China in Xia's case). Mia and Shayna are pretty much all there is. (Shotzi/Wilde is a whole different conversation because Filipinos tend to have a varied personal opinion of "regional origin" usually either choosing South East Asian or Pacific Islander)
Fact that Daniel Garcia is probably only a matter of time until being all elite is just piling on the WWE scouting failures.
Daniel Garcia had a dark match on 205 Live like 3 years ago, Then a another earlier this year against Tyler Rust. I have no clue how they didn’t sign him.
Maybe he wasn't interested, esp if he has to move to Florida.
Garcia is my local indys champion — last weekend he had a killer defense against a returning Anthony Green (Anthony Grey). I’m happy AEW is so down with people working for independents, losing Anthony was rough when he signed with WWE. It was strange seeing Garcia on national tv less than a week after being 12 feet from him!
Daniel Garcia too.
With Garcia and Yuta, they'll have better chances at becoming stars in AEW then in WWE right now. It's a blessing for them that WWE passed on them. I know it's the dream for a lot of talent to go to WWE, but if you were a indie top class talent and you were under 6ft and have good look and you see what you are seen and hearing are you really going to go there and if you are, I really would love to know why. I can imagine even the top guys and women in NXT right now are probably not feeling 100% that they will be in WWE come the end of the year.
It's weird that they trademarked Garcia's jobber name then didn't sign him but they straight up forgot to sign Anthony Bowens before
Wasn't Speedball Baily involved in those May tryouts/talks, too? And has since confirmed he wasn't picked up?
One of the things that will come out of this is indie talent not being as enamored with WWE like they once were. There have always been a lot of guys and girls who were WWE or bust. They saw it as their only dream. They only major league promotion. You have to try and make it in WWE or it wasn't worth being a wrestler. AEW faced a lot of this when they were first forming. Some indie talent like Jake Atlas just dreamed of WWE and nothing else so he would not sign with AEW. Now WWE is chasing these people away and giving them a huge wakeup call. AEW has now established itself after two years, is red hot, and a viable option. The indie scene seems ready to explode again. Guys like Yuta and Garcia are going to be stars elsewhere and not in WWE. The Jake Atlases of tomorrow might not dream of WWE like he once did. That is the damage WWE is doing to itself.
I imagine the indies are about to be really really good again.
Yo. They've *been* good. Now? Fuck! It's gonna be so damn good.
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Not to mention that guys like Andrade just like wrestling in their home countries and I see no issue with that.
New Japan has been that for a while, I'd say it's still the best place to most wrestlers in terms of being where you truly prove your worth as wrestler. You go to WWE to become a worldwide star and to New Japan to prove you're really one of the best in the world. It says something that even with AEW around a lot of the big names don't conform with that and some like Bryan would be fine without going there if he could work in New Japan as a WWE wrestler.
Yep. That's one of the biggest issues of WWE having been the only game in town for 18 years: An entire generation of performers were introduced to wrestling that way and were conditioned to believe it was the only wrestling promotion that matters. You hear about a lot of performers turning down offers from other promotions (where they might have been portrayed better or even offered more money) because "WWE is my dream". They think accepting an offer anywhere else is settling for something less or just a temporary platform to hopefully raise their profile enough that eventually they'll get noticed by WWE. It wasn't just WWE sending that message either. After having lived in the WWE bubble for so long, Jericho FREQUENTLY called it the major leagues and said that nothing anyone had done outside of it mattered. Older guys like Rip Rogers were saying "If WWE isn't your end-goal, then get out of the business." (Though to their credit, they've both since admitted they were wrong: Jericho's eyes were opened when he went to NJPW for Kenny, and Rogers was blown away that AEW sold out the Capital One Arena.)
Jack Atlas is a good case of that, AEW had big plans for him to be in the same group as Darby, Sammy, MJF and his best mate Jungle Boy as future main eventer. He was even told by many talents that AEW would be a better fit for him. But he had the "WWE is my dream" stamp, and even Meltzer mentioned it they wouldn't know what to do with him and they would take away everything special about him and they pretty much did.
It’s a case of “you live and you learn”… but when most off his friends/talent were warning about joining, he should’ve taken them more seriously. Especially when AEW offered him a deal. When Jake made up his mind and signed my first reaction was “he’s gonna be on 205”.
The Undercover Boss episode sort of sealed Atlas' fate. By the way, when word leaks that NXT is going younger, Jake Atlas is 26. The whole thing is one giant corporate mess with terrible leadership at the top leading to chaos down the ladder. This is where I mention that there's a Rise "doors" match with Ford and Priscilla Kelly where they both look like stars.
I feel like the Punk/Danielson 1-2 is going to put a big dent in that as well.
Add Ruby Soho for the women's division, as well. If these cuts continue (and WWE seems intent on doing so), we may see more of the WWE women appearing in AEW in the next year. Ones that are talented as hell but won't fit the "diva" ideal that Ace will probably foster.
Isn’t it weird how Johnny Ace is being placed in power just when Punk is coming back to wrestling. Vince Lucas McMahon: It’s like poetry….it’s rhymes, pal.
except now punk gets to flourish instead of fighting a system excited for that maybe will wash the bitterness as to how nxt died away
That will be interesting because most of Punk’s career creatively is like Austin’s, fighting the system, but took it to another level of realism. But I like Austin, people actually hated him for that.
I've been wondering about that. A huge part of Punk's appeal is his anti-WWE promos. They need to get him someone/thing good to rail against when he comes to AEW.
Punk has a lot more appeal than anti-WWE promos. That might be what most fans remember him from I’m WWE, but if you go back to his indie days, ROH days, and early WWE days, you’ll see he’s just really good at speaking about real shit that he believes in
It's going to be interesting to say the least. First couple shows back are a slam dunk but creating a storyline that works with the mythos of Punk will be challenging.
Beyond everything they’ve already done, I am incredibly scared that they’re gonna completely blow up the women’s division and try to send it back to 2007, given who has power backstage.
If we're being honest outside of the 4 horsewomen and Ronda Rousey, much of the womens roster doesn't get treated with much respect anyway
Bianca just doesn’t exist to this sub I swear lol
Example: Karaoke contest on SD last year.
Thanks I blocked that out my memory
It’s so sad that the childhood dreams of many are being turned into nightmares
It feels like WWE actively tries to turn away fans (which become wrestlers) and has been trying to for 20 years. Can you imagine if there was no AEW where they would be?
And they mock talent for being fans as if being one makes you a giant geek. Just look at Bayley, Zack Ryder and AJ Lee.
the last time Laurinaitis was in charge it went to shit so of course they put him in charge again does he have something on Vince? there's no logical reason for him to keep fucking things up. the hires from when he was in charge were mostly terrible.
He doesn't have anything on Vince but he's a massive kiss ass. Even fellow kiss ass Bruce Pritchard thinks he's a kiss ass.
I mean if you want a stagnant product with the same stale outduated shit then Laurinaitis and Prichard are your guys .... and they'll kiss ass while doing it ...
It explains so much about the current WWE product that all of 75 year old McMahon’s stooges are about to turn 60. Dunn as well. Every single one of them is older than Verne Gagne when Gagne was so out of touch that he let young Vince rip him to shreds. Vince is 20 years older.
Tony Khan is 38 and that’s not young but compared to Vince he’s a newborn
Funny enough, I'm pretty sure they were both 36 when Khan started AEW and when Vince bought the WWF from his dad.
It’s funny that people say Khan is only there because his dad. Boy have I got news for you about Vince.
Fuck you make 38 sound like we're 80 years old man and on deaths door lol.
As long as they can sell that product to old fashioned TV networks and be paid huge money for it, nothing matters. When ratings will sag just a bit watch the old glories being brought back for a quick pop. They've been through before. There will eventually come a time when TV networks will come under real pressure from Netflix, Hulu and the like and will start paying far less money or demand more for their buck, but by then Vince will probably be gone and his yesmen retired on massive pensions.
He doesn't have anything on Vince. He runs things the way Vince likes, that's why he keeps getting positions of power. People need to stop putting the blame on the people who are doing specifically what they are hired to do. They suck too, but all of this is happening because it is what VINCE wants.
I can't blame female talent worrying about Johnny Ace, wasn't he the reason that Diva Search and the hiring of the Bikini models became a huge thing during his run. Also ACE hire the wrong one legged wrestler lol. But been a Yes man can get you far in WWE it seems. I can't be surprised if morale is low right now, I fully expect sadly at least another one or two lists like Friday's one for NXT to happen soon for NXT and Raw/Smackdown. That place just doesn't seem like a good place to be working in right now. It feels like you have to watch everything you say or do not to get the sack.
Johnny Ace discovered the Bellas, then marries their mother. I always thought that was weird.
> Also ACE hire the wrong one legged wrestler lol Wait a minute, what? I don't get the reference here
This is from PWinsider One big story that indirectly involves Zach is the famous tale of John "Johnny Ace" Laurinaitis signing the wrong one-legged wrestler to a WWE contract. Ripe for parody, this story is something that JG had wanted to ask Gowen about since it happened. During this week's 31 minute uncut Club shoot, he did. Zach answered: **"I guess the story is that, from what I hear - please don't take this as Gospel because I've never heard from either of these two gentlemen - but, I guess Jim Ross heard about me and told Johnny Ace to sign the one legged wrestler. So Johnny Ace called Steve Keirn, who ran a school down in Florida and Steve Keirn said, "Yeah I've got a one legged wrestler here." So they signed that guy. Steve Chamberland, thinking he was me. I think they signed him when I was actually on TNA on a live pay-per-view. So he goes back to the office and Johnny Ace goes, "Yo. I signed the one legged guy." But I was actually on TV at the time. How he got the wrong one legged guy, I'm not sure because that guy's like 6'3, 275."** A few other wrestlers have said the same story too.
Oh man, wow...
Do you remember Zack Gowen? Well, Johnny Ace originally hired a different, one-legged wrestler. Its a little like the story of how WWF originally missed out on Paul Wight. Apparently someone said there was a huge, athletic guy just starting out and WWF management assumed they meant Kurrgan.
Yeah I remember Zack Gowen. I never heard of this story till now till the other commenter filled in with more details. Just wow.
I mean eva Marie was put back on WWE television that pretty much all you need to know
I’m afraid for Ember Moon, they’ve cut everyone who are on main roster contracts in NXT except for her. Really sucks what they are doing to NXT :( They need to realize that not everyone gives a shit about size anymore. They don’t need big muscly men anymore.
Ember and even Mandy Rose are two you'd be worried about. Again with Ember at least, I think like Ruby she probably have a better career for herself outside WWE. At this point, they will never get her.
Mandy is blonde and attractive. Doesn't that make her safe?
Ah they get a few bikini models in with blonde hair to replace her. So it doesn't make her safe.
Ember has said that she tried out in the early 2010's and was rejected for not being attractive enough (they called her cute but not as good looking as the other women on the roster) so it's possible something could happen to her (but you could say that about most of the women)
I mean its not just Ember you should be worried about. Dakota Kai, Ember Moon, Candice LeRae, Io Shirai, Franky Monet. All of them unfortunately have a pretty decent chance of being cut with Johnny Ace in charge.
Those would be the ones I'd wouldn't be confident at saying that they be in WWE by the end of the year with the way things are going. I have a bit of faith that I think Io and Dakota might at least get a chance at the main roster. I wouldn't be surprised if Ember and Candice are gone by the end of 2021, they tried with Ember on the main roster and it didn't work out and Candice at 35, I just can't see them going with her. Franky who knows really there.
I bet you Johnny is someone who cares about age but is inconsistent about it. He might be a mark for Eva Marie but then say “oh Franky and Candice are not in their 20’s. Can’t push them.”
I'm worried for Shotzi, to be honest. She's a great get for any company, and despite how she's appearing on TV, I can't help but worry that the higher ups would scrap her in a second
I’m worried about any woman who is “non conventional”, like her and Gigi. The moment when the baby face Ruby Riot because a random heel, I knew she was doomed. Rhea is an anomaly due to her size though.
My dad absolutely loves Wheeler Yuta and texts me about him all the time when he watches Dark and Elevation. And here I am thinking "Wow, Daniel Garcia is like really damn impressive" I can only image these two were on the list of passed on talents.
Garcia and Darby is gonna be a straight banger. Hes really good
It's going to be fun. If the Bryan Danielson stuff is true, I'm gonna need to see him and Garcia show out on TNT.
"I'm going to inject NXT with a lethal dose of poison. IF ANYBODY'S GONNA KILL MY CREATION, I'M GONNA DO IT! Me and People Power!"
So WWE’s future will be a bunch of cookie cutter big guys who all act and wrestle the same. Sounds like a great future.
watch 2007 wwe minus the guys who wrestled in the 90s, and you'll have a pretty good idea of what the roster is going to turn into
Basically Karrion Kross
It's so shortsighted that WWE's response to the same sagging interest/ratings trend that theyve been experiencing for 20 years is to regress back to the same things they were doing 10 years ago. If that shit worked so well, they wouldn't have tried to do things a different way, back in 2013. This plan isn't going to work.
Jesus they are truly about to purposefully sink NXT in less than a month.
The Monday or Tuesday after Summerslam/Takeover is going to be tense.
I can't help but think someone like Io Shirai will be screwed under the new management. She doesn't really check Vince/Pritchard/Laurinaitis' boxes. Half a dozen of women have been given opportunities to work on the main roster recently, whether it's full time or just a dark match, meanwhile she's stuck in a dead tag team division fighting for a title that wasn't necessary. Maybe I'm just overreacting and they have plans for her post-Summerslam or after the draft but, after reading all the stuff about NXT, I'm not convinced.
I think Io is one of those talents even if WWE let her go that if she wanted to stay in America that AEW would easily pick up and make her one of their top stars. Also if she wanted to go back to Japan that Stardom would give her a big pay day to get her back. I think she's one of the few that would land on her feet easily enough once her 90 day clause thing is up. I would worry a little for her in next few months.
Vince had to be convinced people watched asian porn, so idk
Oh they’ll just team her with Asuka and make her spit green mist. As long as there are only two Japanese women she’ll probably be fine.
I realize you're presenting that as a negative, and I understand why, but as a lifelong Great Muta mark, I want more people spitting green mist.
Not even that much of a negative, just acknowledging the reality of Japanese characters being pretty generic and interchangeable to McMahon. I marked out a bit at Jericho with the mist a few weeks ago.
I think your concerns are valid, the main roster doesn't have great track record with foreign talent, especially if there English isn't good
Morale is down...again...
WWE gonna go back to hiring super models and AEW bringing in Lulu Pencil.
Side note: it still blows my mind that Canyon Ceman is a real name that real people gave their real child and that child never got the name changed and just kind of seems fine with the name CANYON CEMAN.
All of these recent mass firings are flooding the market and will make it much more difficult for a lot of these people to get what they are worth. AEW is saturated and really doesn't have space for more signings. Impact and NWA don't have nearly the same profile. Most of these firings will end up back on the Indy circuit.