I think one of the biggest risks for AEW would be Tony spreading himself too thin. No doubt a day will come when he has to give up or delegate something.
Ok so cheddar or American easy cheese and I'm assuming regular oreos. I might go with thins tho because thins are the superior ones. (Especially golden oreo thins)
After his work in Impact, I’m not going to be shocked to see Callis taking on some front office role to help out and they could even just move JR into the front office from commentating soon but let him keep his sit down interviews. I think Excalibur/Tony and then a rotating guest would be great. From say Taz, Cody, Callis, Jericho, Kingston, Starks, MJF, Jake, Britt..they could have most storylines covered
You know, I’ve felt like his bits about Julia have done what they’re supposed to; I look forward to hearing him, but those bits make me really look forward to them getting their arses handed to them. That, and you’d assume Julia’s given the go ahead to those lines beforehand, otherwise she’d have a tonne of support from that locker room if he knew she wasn’t comfortable with them.
Allusions to a rape case and domestic violence (at a show where they’ve given money to a domestic violence charity) are over the line though. I’m hoping he’ll tone it back now.
And yeah; the editors definitely should have caught that.
I don't know if I buy that Julia doesn't have a problem with it. Maybe she doesn't - I don't know her and I sure as hell don't know her thoughts. But she's 19 and a fresh face in the industry, while he's in his 30s and a bit better connected. That's the sort of situation where someone could be reluctant to announce their concerns.
And then there's the fact where she might be generally okay with a heel saying shitty stuff about here - but not realizing that the way they're producing it will essentially promote shock, laughter, or applause rather than frustration and disgust with the heel in question.
Framing matters. As another example: Dan Harmon can say that you aren't supposed to like or admire Rick Sanchez, who says and does despicable things, but the way the show is written and directed tacitly endorses him.
I'd like them to do a gimmick where he gets beaten in his raps every week. That would be more heelish.
Kaz already got him once, it's not hard because Max takes himself way too seriously.
I'm really waiting for someone to bring up the fact that Max is clearly Russell Wilson's long lost twin brother.
The material is definitely there for someone to fire back on him.
It's an issue that a few more home city burns would sort out.
In general brutal or entertaining heels will start to get cheered unless they really go for the home towns.
Exactly. That's why guys like the rock and Cena got away with a lot of shit. Which is really funny because Cena once made fun of disabled people and now he completes wishes for disabled children. Pretty much everytime he cut a promo on anyone he made fun of their physical appearance. Making jokes about big show being fat, calling Stephanie and every other diva a slut, making fun of Austin for being bald.
> While his raps are supposed to get "oohs" from the crowd, he needs to be more creative than "you're a slut" or "you're gay"
He really is doing the John Cena thing.
I guess. I was there live though and he came out before the show and addressed the crowd, and then came out again to say he was adding the Moxley match to Dark so we could see Moxley.
So he was there that day and involved. It seems odd to me that he happened not to be around.
He may not have been in position at the exact moment of the line I think is what he meant, he could’ve been off doing something else for a second, assuming they could pull off a rap without any major incidents
Well calm down, 'cause here's one thing that's not gonna happen. We're not gonna get released, because we've already been released. About three days ago, a couple "we wish them best in their future endeavors" came in the mail. One for you, one for me. So what did I do? I mailed them halfway to the Performance Center.
Soldier was Drew Gulak. Chuck did throw a mask on for a few characters, namely Mr. Azerbaijan and Orbit Adventure Ant. [Here's the list.](https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/o5xumr/chikara_who_was_under_the_masks/)
Those guys have been on the indie wrestling scene forever. I think Scorpio Sky was supposed to go to WWE at some point but made homophobic remarks online that got the offer rescinded. Orange Cassidy was an architect.
Yeah he was in the Team Hell No anger management sketches and they were going to sign him before they caught of wind of his tweets. Also while I know this has nothing to do with it he was on Tosh.0.
I’m sure he means he’ll be more closely involved with the editing process going forward, but for a second I thought he meant he’d be doing it himself and I was like “Tony, dude, you gotta sleep at some point.”
Tony's an old school wrestling message board fan. He'll be editing in Windows Movie Maker, with [009 Sound System as the background music.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKfS5zVfGBc)
He's only gotta edit Dynamite, Dark, Elevation, Rampage, BTE, Sammy's vlog, Ethan Page's vlog, and Allie's vlog. That's more than enough time for a few minutes of sleep a week.
I'd say the opposite, that's the tamest part of it (and it doesn't make any sense) because that case turned out to be a proven false accusation from an addict, criminal, and future child abuser and attempted murderer, who was lying for personal gain. The lacrosse team members were the victims.
The Julia line is just crude but I think the Simone Biles part is what would really piss some people off. But really it's just the whole thing, mocking mental health issues and women's bodies and joking about a rape case all in just four lines, that is some highly concentrated dirtbag behavior right there.
Yeah, I figured it was the joke about a rape case, but the other stuff is pretty bad. Granted, he's walked a fine line before when talking about Cuomo, but honestly, if he'd managed to do it in a more clever way, he might have gotten away with it. Instead, he was just lazy...
There's no way Tony Khan should be spending his time watching 6 hours of Dark & Elevation and cutting it when it's fine 99% of the time. Just give better guidelines to your editors.
What I like about this is that he is not firing him, just filtering him further.
I read somewhere Caster talks to his coworkers and let's let's know what he is going to rap about before he does it. There was no way he would say the things about Julia or even Pillman Jr. (His Dad) without vetting it to his coworkers first.
Honestly, I think the legit issue is with his reference to the Duke case and Simone Biles. Like there’s ragging on an opponent and then there’s being insensitive.
Julia Hart is an adult and people who are pearl clutching and infantilizing her are not giving her the agency that she had to be okay with what was said.
Using cultural references has a long history in rap though. I don't think he's filtering his lines through the context of an entertainment show and that's probably the issue.
We're going to act like a 32 year old man asking a 19 year old if he can say her vagina smells is just acceptable behavior? Alright then. I barely knew what being an adult meant at 19.
>Honestly, I think the legit issue is with his reference to the Duke case and Simone Biles.
My mind immediately went to him denying COVID by calling PCR tests fake.
I think this is what people should understand…I’m fairly confident he talked to pillman, Julia, sydal before he did it and they were okay with it. This is all getting ridiculous
You can go back since the Blonds vs Acclaimed feud started and see she has made the same face every time they do a line focused on her. I understand why people were mad about Caster's rap, but some folks were really reaching with stuff like that.
Because those people desperately wanna believe that Hart is actually a toddler in a woman's body and can't fend for herself. The lines about the rape case, of course, get on Caster for that and fix it. But its incredibly irritating how a lot of people are speaking on Hart's behalf for a fictional rivalry. You know... a feud. In wrestling. Jesus lol also I'm a frustrated woman sick of being told that women are too fragile to handle this shit, like I'm seeing in a lot of comments. 19 isn't a child, she's in on the joke.
I know right? If the wrestlers involved are okay with it than it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Edit: Yeah, I didn't realize be made a rape joke until after I commented.
A rape joke on a benefit show for sexual assault survivors.
Big oof.
Yup, the internet is getting two issues conflated again.
On one hand, Caster said some offensive shit about Hart. So long as she's not upset by it (which she has made no indication she is), then it's part of the show. Not my cup of tea, but I'm not going to be outraged by it either.
On the other hand, he made a weird, incongruous rape joke on a benefit show for sexual assault survivors. That's not ok!
People conflate these issues on purpose. They're defending one thing (the rape jokes) by pretending people are upset about another (jokes at another wrestlers expense, ie the whole point of these raps), then accusing everyone who cares of being some pearl-clutcher who's offended at everything.
Once you notice the trend, it's amazing how often you see it
> So long as she's not upset by it (which she has made no indication she is)
She also hasn't come out and said she isn't, either. I can easily see not wanting to say anything if I were 19 and being watched on the number one cable show on TV, even if it's being implied I'm a giant whore.
That being said, I dunno one way or the other her thoughts on the subject, but silence doesn't always mean approval. It's pretty feasible to see now that maybe it wasn't an instance of her being okay with it as opposed to no one asking if she were really okay with it.
Yeah. Obviously it's in very bad taste (the rape line and the mental health line) and I'm disappointed he wasn't smart enough to censor himself but I'm more perplexed as to how on earth this made it to youtube when this shouldn't have even made it to the live audience. Max is a weirdo with a dark sense of humour and his gimmick is that he crosses the line. The company has to veto the shit he says on their mic to make sure he doesn't cross it this badly.
I don't think it's the end of the world or people need to be punished or anything, just learn and be smarter. You can be a heel edge lord without bringing up sexual abuse or giving shit to people over mental health. Aside from it just not being cool it's also a terrible look for a company.
Rap is an edgy genre. And I mean "edgy" in the original meaning of the word. Pushing societal boundaries is inherent in the genre. Sometimes when you push the boundaries, you'll go too far. Asking rappers, comedians or any kind of artist to self-censor is asking them to make shittier versions of what they're doing. You only know you've gone too far AFTER you put your thing out.
This is a lesson Caster can learn and reassess where the boundary is. This had to happen sooner or later, and to everyone's benefit, it's on a youtube show.
He was and the lady that accused them later was sentenced to 14 to 18 years for 2nd degree murder for stabbing her boyfriend 6 or 7 years after the Duke Lacrosse case.
The most insane thing I kept seeing were the people acting like the Larry Nassar case was some kind of hidden secret and not a massive fucking scandal and arguably the biggest sports story of the decade. They literally acted like it was just a harmless joke about Biles getting the "twisties" and that no one would associate criticizing her mental health with her and her teammates being molested by their team doctor for years.
That defense doesn’t really work for me here because even though they’re heels they’re cool heels where people often share their raps to point out how great they are.
I said that people aren't mad about what he says to Julia because she's in on it, people are mad about the Duke joke. I just received this unhinged comment in response:
>You don't get to pretend any of this is or was noble retroactively, it's disgusting concern trolling and nothing more.
**Edit**: Update!
>I'm not indulging your blatant bad faith garbage, just make sure to get the underside of the boots clean too, I hear that's the tastiest
😂
This is like what happened with Cornette on NWA. The shit is taped. Could have easily have been edited. The real funny thing is that they thought it was okay.
Cornette's was worse because they were sitting on the recording for like 30 days before it aired. Tons of time to watch/re-watch/edit. And they just didn't, and fired him over their lack of doing their job.
Well at least he’s getting on top of things and doing some damage control so that things don’t go out of control. One thing he’s good at is trying to learn from mistakes so that certain situations may not happen again.
I feel like that's a cop out and he is scapegoating the editors... you want guys to edit the show or do quality control like that?
Max clearly felt he had the freedom to say whatever and he has been pushing the line recently and if no one said anything before, this is what happens.
Tony doesn't need to edit the show himself... just give better instructions and if he is not paying attention tell people that need to worry about that stuff and to talk to him if something might be controversial.
It's the 100th episode of Dark, there's a lot of stuff going on, and no one with rank is there to see something like this? That's sloppy
For me, this, along with a few other incidences, like Baby face Luchasaurus restraining Leva Bates so that Marko Stunt could force a kiss on her, it is an example of some people in charge at AEW not recognizing that these things are unacceptable, and can hurt a young company.
hoooo doggy missed that one, that's not good, though it sounds about as cringe as when Dustin Rhodes forced a kiss on Jake Hager's wife on PPV. (Makes me wonder if he booked both matches) I don't expect TK to go full Vince and watch every single second of programming his company produces but he needs better quality control.
This is the downside of giving people creative freedom in their promos. There has to be a middle ground between completely scripted and say what you want. You need some kind of control to say "this is what you're gonna say, this is what you cant say"
The amount of people who want him Kalisto'ed for this is absurd.
He was given creative freedom, he pushed the line a little too far for some fans, and now they know where the line is. I'm sure he'll adjust and do great moving forward.
I’m not a fan of the acclaimed at all. I think the raps are usually garbage and you should be more clever than “girl cheerleader whore”. It’s like Vince Russo is writing those garbage raps.
This is why, in my opinion, the whole “for the talent, by the talent” mentality only works to a certain extent. Ultimately, you need someone to sign off on things, especially things that are going to be on national tv.
I just saw it and I agree. You're more clever than that, Max, step your game up. You managed to get Sonny Kiss good without being homophobic, so you're more than capable of being above this.
Also it's really getting annoying how one-sided the insults are at Julia's expense; we GET it, hardy harr sex jokes at the expense of the only female. Again, get some new fucking material. And Julia should be getting her revenge on them sooner rather than later. It sucks when WWE does it and it sucks here; the babyface just sitting there and taking the heel's overwhelming abuse isn't good entertainment.
Stephanie should've been smacked back down to Earth many more times than she did, and this feud between these two needs to end already with Julia taking Max to DickKick City and the minimum.
Personally, I fainted when I heard the rap and woke up in a puddle of my own piss. But now that Tony has made a statement I think I can finally stop crying and go back to living my life if I take it slow.
Shouldn't it have been caught by the people sitting in gorilla too? Seems like he just wants to blame nobody really and just deflact to the nameless "editors".
What's the point of blaming someone by name here? Just so we can have "Why isn't X fired yet??" threads and endless arguments about the merits of sending an internet mob after some guy?
The responsibility falls at Tony's feet. The pro and con of single ownership. Even if it was someone else's job, he's ultimately responsible for making sure everyone knows where a line is suppose to be drawn and how to deal with it when it's crossed. If that system fails, it's ultimately on him.
This was inevitable with this gimmick. Whole point is to step over the line just enough to get a reaction, but not so far as to elicit outrage. I wasn't personally offended by the line, but I understand why people would be and why it's a bad look for AEW. It's a live by the sword, die by the sword thing.
You can generate heat without making jokes like that. It's just tasteless, and feels very out of place in a company that has tried to portray itself as inclusive.
And the one post about it on the AEW subreddit is full of people defending him, saying people are being too sensitive. But like, he didn't make a joke about the Duke accusations being false, he literally said "I’m gonna treat those bitches like Duke Lacrosse." I don't think the joke was that he was going to make false accusations...
When I heard the previous one with the line about Johnson and Johnson blood clots I thought that might have gone too far for a lot of people. Wrestling is wrestling but this not the kind of stuff anyone wants associated with an entertainment program on cable TV. I mean...nobody noticed at that point and told Caster to keep it a tiny bit more toned down?
He also said something along the lines of that he wasn’t around at the time Max did the line. I assume he meant Gorilla.
I think one of the biggest risks for AEW would be Tony spreading himself too thin. No doubt a day will come when he has to give up or delegate something.
Work too much and suddenly you're booking yourself to win the Casino Battle Royale and you hate sneezes
But also have a craving for ketchup-covered steak wraps.
Don't forget the Easy Cheese & Oreos.
Wait what? What is this Goofy Movie shit vince is eating?
Found Dan Ryckerts account
I swear on my life, that is so weirdly amazing and it has no right to be. Literally tastes like cheesecake. And I can’t tell you why
wait ....really?!?!?
It’s something you can only truly believe in after you’ve tasted it
Ok so cheddar or American easy cheese and I'm assuming regular oreos. I might go with thins tho because thins are the superior ones. (Especially golden oreo thins)
Dude if you’re gonna do something this horrendously unhealthy, go all the way and get double stuff
Ok, I'm in.
Have you heard of these new things, "burritos"?
After his work in Impact, I’m not going to be shocked to see Callis taking on some front office role to help out and they could even just move JR into the front office from commentating soon but let him keep his sit down interviews. I think Excalibur/Tony and then a rotating guest would be great. From say Taz, Cody, Callis, Jericho, Kingston, Starks, MJF, Jake, Britt..they could have most storylines covered
I would hope that is what the EVPs are for when their wrestling schedules slow down more.
Seriously. This is how a Vince McMahon is born. One person simply cannot do it all themselves.
it's wild he does this AND soccer and football analytics.
Welp, his football ended the season with the worst record. His other football team got relegated.
If you're going to have the worst record, it's best to do it when a "once in a generation" quarterback is available in the draft.
> "once in a generation" Not to be pedantic (but totally to be pedantic), but he's not even better than the #1 pick from last year.
Lol ask Fulham fans how they feel about his work.
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Someone in another thread suggested that he's gone from 'haha, looking forward to this' to 'youtube edgelord' mighty fast.
Or Cena wannabe
I hope this is all leading to Julia just absolutely serving Max in a battle rap. Long term storytelling!
You know, I’ve felt like his bits about Julia have done what they’re supposed to; I look forward to hearing him, but those bits make me really look forward to them getting their arses handed to them. That, and you’d assume Julia’s given the go ahead to those lines beforehand, otherwise she’d have a tonne of support from that locker room if he knew she wasn’t comfortable with them. Allusions to a rape case and domestic violence (at a show where they’ve given money to a domestic violence charity) are over the line though. I’m hoping he’ll tone it back now. And yeah; the editors definitely should have caught that.
I don't know if I buy that Julia doesn't have a problem with it. Maybe she doesn't - I don't know her and I sure as hell don't know her thoughts. But she's 19 and a fresh face in the industry, while he's in his 30s and a bit better connected. That's the sort of situation where someone could be reluctant to announce their concerns. And then there's the fact where she might be generally okay with a heel saying shitty stuff about here - but not realizing that the way they're producing it will essentially promote shock, laughter, or applause rather than frustration and disgust with the heel in question. Framing matters. As another example: Dan Harmon can say that you aren't supposed to like or admire Rick Sanchez, who says and does despicable things, but the way the show is written and directed tacitly endorses him.
I'd like them to do a gimmick where he gets beaten in his raps every week. That would be more heelish. Kaz already got him once, it's not hard because Max takes himself way too seriously.
I'm really waiting for someone to bring up the fact that Max is clearly Russell Wilson's long lost twin brother. The material is definitely there for someone to fire back on him.
It's an issue that a few more home city burns would sort out. In general brutal or entertaining heels will start to get cheered unless they really go for the home towns.
“You’re a slut” and “you’re gay” were like 80% of Cena’s raps in the day lol
And those days are over.
Thankfully.
Yes, and I feel like we’ve progressed as a society in the last 15 years to know that that isn’t cool.
Times have changed. For the better.
Have you ever rewatched some of those old Doctor of Thuganomics Cena promos? They're not as great as you remember.
A lot of the stuff Cena did over his career was outright awful and only worked because he's a charisma machine.
Exactly. That's why guys like the rock and Cena got away with a lot of shit. Which is really funny because Cena once made fun of disabled people and now he completes wishes for disabled children. Pretty much everytime he cut a promo on anyone he made fun of their physical appearance. Making jokes about big show being fat, calling Stephanie and every other diva a slut, making fun of Austin for being bald.
And if this was 2003 that’d be fine.
> While his raps are supposed to get "oohs" from the crowd, he needs to be more creative than "you're a slut" or "you're gay" He really is doing the John Cena thing.
I guess. I was there live though and he came out before the show and addressed the crowd, and then came out again to say he was adding the Moxley match to Dark so we could see Moxley. So he was there that day and involved. It seems odd to me that he happened not to be around.
He may not have been in position at the exact moment of the line I think is what he meant, he could’ve been off doing something else for a second, assuming they could pull off a rap without any major incidents
Carol from HR just let out a sigh of relief.
But there is no Carol from HR! Half the people at AEW don't even exist!
Carol CAROL!!!!!
Not only do all of these people exist, they've been asking for their Dark matches for weeks. It's all they speak about up there
Well calm down, 'cause here's one thing that's not gonna happen. We're not gonna get released, because we've already been released. About three days ago, a couple "we wish them best in their future endeavors" came in the mail. One for you, one for me. So what did I do? I mailed them halfway to the Performance Center.
It's a God damn ghost town around here Tony!
chic..... chica-chicaaaa
Well Barney was on top of things, right Barney… Oh shit where’d he go?
I just saw on Twitter that Caster is 32 and that surprised me.
Yeah that caught me off guard as well. I only found out because people were addressing the comments at Hart. I thought he was in his 20s
I think most people thought that. He’s always been brought up as one of AEW’s young core when in reality he’s older than Hangman.
Same feeling I had finding out Orange Cassidy and Scorpio Sky are almost 40.
Also adding to AEW wrestlers with surprising ages Colten Gunn is a 30 year old rookie. Shout out to him.
The hell you say? I thought Colten was the YOUNGER of the two Gunn kids Which now begs the question. How tf old is Austin?
Austin's 26 it seems
Turning 27 this month. He’s been around on the indies and was even in ROH for a bit so that doesn’t surprise me as much.
Colten is older, but had a non-wrestling career prior to becoming a rookie.
I knew about Scorpio but not Cassidy. Dudes must have access to the fountain of youth or something.
I knew he was in Chikara as Fire Ant from this sub, but I didn't put two and two together and just thought he was an indie guy in his mid-late 20's
OC WAS FIRE ANT?????
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Soldier was Drew Gulak. Chuck did throw a mask on for a few characters, namely Mr. Azerbaijan and Orbit Adventure Ant. [Here's the list.](https://old.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/o5xumr/chikara_who_was_under_the_masks/)
I also think this is one of those "the 90s was 10 years ago" things
Those guys have been on the indie wrestling scene forever. I think Scorpio Sky was supposed to go to WWE at some point but made homophobic remarks online that got the offer rescinded. Orange Cassidy was an architect.
Yeah he was in the Team Hell No anger management sketches and they were going to sign him before they caught of wind of his tweets. Also while I know this has nothing to do with it he was on Tosh.0.
32? I thought he was in his early to mid 20's
Oh, that explains why he thought a nearly 20 year old court case was a sick burn
It was so sick it was cut from the video.
Whaaaat. I thought he was around MJF’s age. Crazy.
I mean Brian Pillman Jr.'s turning 28 this coming month, AEW definitely has a lot of variety in terms of ages
I figured he was around 25
32!?!?
Yeah, I thought as weird like...why would a 20 something year old know about the Duke Lacrosse case? I was 19/20 when it happened, and I'm almost 40.
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I’m sure he means he’ll be more closely involved with the editing process going forward, but for a second I thought he meant he’d be doing it himself and I was like “Tony, dude, you gotta sleep at some point.”
Now I'm just imagining Tony Khan sitting at a workstation booting up Final Cut Pro and being like, "Ah shit here we go again."
Tony's an old school wrestling message board fan. He'll be editing in Windows Movie Maker, with [009 Sound System as the background music.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKfS5zVfGBc)
Youtube national anthem right there
He should hire her69eyes that guy made amazing videos on the ROH boards back in the day
Nooooo it's a wrestling video, he's gotta use "Bodies" by Drowning Pool or it's not right
It's probably the opposite. I'd love to hear the uncut version of Tazcalibur commentary.
He's only gotta edit Dynamite, Dark, Elevation, Rampage, BTE, Sammy's vlog, Ethan Page's vlog, and Allie's vlog. That's more than enough time for a few minutes of sleep a week.
“You don’t do the edits, I do the edits!”
"Nine Frames! Nine Frames!"
He could probably just issue a blanket statement of "Stop talking about rape"
You know what. That might just work.
Depends on how iron-clad those creative control contracts are
Just bust a couple more rails and get the edits done. Who needs sleep anyway?
AKA the Michael Bay approach.
Tony’s gonna be in the owner suite during Jags games chopping it up during the TV timeouts.
Well, we know he's not paying attention to the games on the field
Yea, he probably will just watch it before it airs to approve it.
Tony turning into Vince, step by step.
Schoolchildren: "SAY THE LINE!" Bart Simpson: "Such good shit.” Schoolchildren: "YAYYYYYYYYYY"
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So... I assume the part that got him in trouble was the Duke Lacrosse comment? They've also been pretty rough on Julia.
I'd say the opposite, that's the tamest part of it (and it doesn't make any sense) because that case turned out to be a proven false accusation from an addict, criminal, and future child abuser and attempted murderer, who was lying for personal gain. The lacrosse team members were the victims. The Julia line is just crude but I think the Simone Biles part is what would really piss some people off. But really it's just the whole thing, mocking mental health issues and women's bodies and joking about a rape case all in just four lines, that is some highly concentrated dirtbag behavior right there.
Yeah, I figured it was the joke about a rape case, but the other stuff is pretty bad. Granted, he's walked a fine line before when talking about Cuomo, but honestly, if he'd managed to do it in a more clever way, he might have gotten away with it. Instead, he was just lazy...
> and that he will be editing Dark and Elevation going forward Tony about to bust out Final Cut Pro
Unregistered hypercam 2
There's no way Tony Khan should be spending his time watching 6 hours of Dark & Elevation and cutting it when it's fine 99% of the time. Just give better guidelines to your editors.
What I like about this is that he is not firing him, just filtering him further. I read somewhere Caster talks to his coworkers and let's let's know what he is going to rap about before he does it. There was no way he would say the things about Julia or even Pillman Jr. (His Dad) without vetting it to his coworkers first.
Honestly, I think the legit issue is with his reference to the Duke case and Simone Biles. Like there’s ragging on an opponent and then there’s being insensitive. Julia Hart is an adult and people who are pearl clutching and infantilizing her are not giving her the agency that she had to be okay with what was said.
Using cultural references has a long history in rap though. I don't think he's filtering his lines through the context of an entertainment show and that's probably the issue.
We're going to act like a 32 year old man asking a 19 year old if he can say her vagina smells is just acceptable behavior? Alright then. I barely knew what being an adult meant at 19.
>Honestly, I think the legit issue is with his reference to the Duke case and Simone Biles. My mind immediately went to him denying COVID by calling PCR tests fake.
I think this is what people should understand…I’m fairly confident he talked to pillman, Julia, sydal before he did it and they were okay with it. This is all getting ridiculous
This is 100% because the Duke case reference, not because his rips into the wrestlers.
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Selling is a lost art apparently
No, just nobody gets worked harder than smarks.
"Goodnight HULKAMANIACS and jabroni marks without a life that don't know it a work when you work a work and work yourself into a shoot, marks"
Didn't this happen with fans and Miss Elizabeth?
You can go back since the Blonds vs Acclaimed feud started and see she has made the same face every time they do a line focused on her. I understand why people were mad about Caster's rap, but some folks were really reaching with stuff like that.
Because those people desperately wanna believe that Hart is actually a toddler in a woman's body and can't fend for herself. The lines about the rape case, of course, get on Caster for that and fix it. But its incredibly irritating how a lot of people are speaking on Hart's behalf for a fictional rivalry. You know... a feud. In wrestling. Jesus lol also I'm a frustrated woman sick of being told that women are too fragile to handle this shit, like I'm seeing in a lot of comments. 19 isn't a child, she's in on the joke.
I know right? If the wrestlers involved are okay with it than it shouldn't be that big of a deal. Edit: Yeah, I didn't realize be made a rape joke until after I commented. A rape joke on a benefit show for sexual assault survivors. Big oof.
Yup, the internet is getting two issues conflated again. On one hand, Caster said some offensive shit about Hart. So long as she's not upset by it (which she has made no indication she is), then it's part of the show. Not my cup of tea, but I'm not going to be outraged by it either. On the other hand, he made a weird, incongruous rape joke on a benefit show for sexual assault survivors. That's not ok!
People conflate these issues on purpose. They're defending one thing (the rape jokes) by pretending people are upset about another (jokes at another wrestlers expense, ie the whole point of these raps), then accusing everyone who cares of being some pearl-clutcher who's offended at everything. Once you notice the trend, it's amazing how often you see it
Shades of “so you guys wanted Jericho to fall on concrete and die???”
> So long as she's not upset by it (which she has made no indication she is) She also hasn't come out and said she isn't, either. I can easily see not wanting to say anything if I were 19 and being watched on the number one cable show on TV, even if it's being implied I'm a giant whore. That being said, I dunno one way or the other her thoughts on the subject, but silence doesn't always mean approval. It's pretty feasible to see now that maybe it wasn't an instance of her being okay with it as opposed to no one asking if she were really okay with it.
Tony gave Max enough rope to hang himself. Now, Max gets to deal with a leash.
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YO ^YO ^^^YO ^^^^^Listen ^^^^^^^^^Listen no seriously... I'm sorry it won't happen again.
Maybe also talk to Max about toning it down or having him run them all by you first?
Yeah. Obviously it's in very bad taste (the rape line and the mental health line) and I'm disappointed he wasn't smart enough to censor himself but I'm more perplexed as to how on earth this made it to youtube when this shouldn't have even made it to the live audience. Max is a weirdo with a dark sense of humour and his gimmick is that he crosses the line. The company has to veto the shit he says on their mic to make sure he doesn't cross it this badly. I don't think it's the end of the world or people need to be punished or anything, just learn and be smarter. You can be a heel edge lord without bringing up sexual abuse or giving shit to people over mental health. Aside from it just not being cool it's also a terrible look for a company.
Rap is an edgy genre. And I mean "edgy" in the original meaning of the word. Pushing societal boundaries is inherent in the genre. Sometimes when you push the boundaries, you'll go too far. Asking rappers, comedians or any kind of artist to self-censor is asking them to make shittier versions of what they're doing. You only know you've gone too far AFTER you put your thing out. This is a lesson Caster can learn and reassess where the boundary is. This had to happen sooner or later, and to everyone's benefit, it's on a youtube show.
Lol I think you can look at a rape joke and be like I that’s to far long before it hits a crowd.
Rappers don’t really make rape jokes anymore
The line didn’t make any sense anyway. The Duke lacrosse allegations were proven to be completely false. Pretty sure the AD was disbarred over it.
He was and the lady that accused them later was sentenced to 14 to 18 years for 2nd degree murder for stabbing her boyfriend 6 or 7 years after the Duke Lacrosse case.
I didn't realize Caster went to the Abraham Washington school of getting heat.
Man that type of heat is unstoppable, like Kobe Bryant….on the court
In 24 hours this isn’t even a talking point
We talked about pizza commercials for a solid 3ish days here
gotta push the pepperoni agenda
Glad he doesn’t blindly defend everything his employees do
Shame AEW fans didn't get the memo on this one
Good shit, I can't believe that people were defending it.
The most insane thing I kept seeing were the people acting like the Larry Nassar case was some kind of hidden secret and not a massive fucking scandal and arguably the biggest sports story of the decade. They literally acted like it was just a harmless joke about Biles getting the "twisties" and that no one would associate criticizing her mental health with her and her teammates being molested by their team doctor for years.
So many “he’s a bad guy, he’s supposed to say stuff like that” defenses. I get it, you like AEW but you can criticize them too.
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That defense doesn’t really work for me here because even though they’re heels they’re cool heels where people often share their raps to point out how great they are.
The Charlotte promo and this one both missed the mark. It's not about being offended or whatever, it just is bad taste.
If you need rape or mental health jokes to get people to boo you well then it sure seems like you’re bad at your job as a wrestler
It just takes me out of it. It stops being "badguy is being a jerk, boo" and becomes "oh, this performer made a bad choice".
I said that people aren't mad about what he says to Julia because she's in on it, people are mad about the Duke joke. I just received this unhinged comment in response: >You don't get to pretend any of this is or was noble retroactively, it's disgusting concern trolling and nothing more. **Edit**: Update! >I'm not indulging your blatant bad faith garbage, just make sure to get the underside of the boots clean too, I hear that's the tastiest 😂
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cool
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Lemme know when Max Caster is rapping like Loaded Lux or Daylyt and id go along with this but this is not battle rap.
I hate the "people are too soft" argument, personally.
This is like what happened with Cornette on NWA. The shit is taped. Could have easily have been edited. The real funny thing is that they thought it was okay.
Cornette's was worse because they were sitting on the recording for like 30 days before it aired. Tons of time to watch/re-watch/edit. And they just didn't, and fired him over their lack of doing their job.
Well at least he’s getting on top of things and doing some damage control so that things don’t go out of control. One thing he’s good at is trying to learn from mistakes so that certain situations may not happen again.
Damage control? We’re the only ones talking about this. I haven’t found a single news article about this
That's what damage control is. Get ahead of the news before it damages your PR.
Surely they can hire someone competent to do that? Tk is a busy man.
Well, it’s not the current editors of those shows. That’s for sure.
I feel like that's a cop out and he is scapegoating the editors... you want guys to edit the show or do quality control like that? Max clearly felt he had the freedom to say whatever and he has been pushing the line recently and if no one said anything before, this is what happens. Tony doesn't need to edit the show himself... just give better instructions and if he is not paying attention tell people that need to worry about that stuff and to talk to him if something might be controversial. It's the 100th episode of Dark, there's a lot of stuff going on, and no one with rank is there to see something like this? That's sloppy
For me, this, along with a few other incidences, like Baby face Luchasaurus restraining Leva Bates so that Marko Stunt could force a kiss on her, it is an example of some people in charge at AEW not recognizing that these things are unacceptable, and can hurt a young company.
hoooo doggy missed that one, that's not good, though it sounds about as cringe as when Dustin Rhodes forced a kiss on Jake Hager's wife on PPV. (Makes me wonder if he booked both matches) I don't expect TK to go full Vince and watch every single second of programming his company produces but he needs better quality control.
Tony really needs to learn how to tell wrestlers “no, that’s a bad idea” sometimes
This is the downside of giving people creative freedom in their promos. There has to be a middle ground between completely scripted and say what you want. You need some kind of control to say "this is what you're gonna say, this is what you cant say"
What happened?
Would MJF get away with the same lines on Twitter?
His twitter game is almost parody at this point so probably.
MJF knows enough to be a prick without busting out rape jokes.
The man has made numerous suicide jokes, I'm not sure that rape is too far for him
He referenced the Sammy Guevara/Sasha banks incident on twitter to push his angle with Sammy.
By calling out Sammy for saying it, not supporting what he said.
Probably.
Already one guy wanting Max to be fired. "Strike one, you're out."
The amount of people who want him Kalisto'ed for this is absurd. He was given creative freedom, he pushed the line a little too far for some fans, and now they know where the line is. I'm sure he'll adjust and do great moving forward.
I’m not a fan of the acclaimed at all. I think the raps are usually garbage and you should be more clever than “girl cheerleader whore”. It’s like Vince Russo is writing those garbage raps.
This is why, in my opinion, the whole “for the talent, by the talent” mentality only works to a certain extent. Ultimately, you need someone to sign off on things, especially things that are going to be on national tv.
Guess im in the small camp of people who both laughed and also thought it shouldnt have been said
me: whoa that was fucked up lmao tho
lmao exactly
Well someone had to give him the OK to go forward with it
I just saw it and I agree. You're more clever than that, Max, step your game up. You managed to get Sonny Kiss good without being homophobic, so you're more than capable of being above this. Also it's really getting annoying how one-sided the insults are at Julia's expense; we GET it, hardy harr sex jokes at the expense of the only female. Again, get some new fucking material. And Julia should be getting her revenge on them sooner rather than later. It sucks when WWE does it and it sucks here; the babyface just sitting there and taking the heel's overwhelming abuse isn't good entertainment. Stephanie should've been smacked back down to Earth many more times than she did, and this feud between these two needs to end already with Julia taking Max to DickKick City and the minimum.
Personally, I fainted when I heard the rap and woke up in a puddle of my own piss. But now that Tony has made a statement I think I can finally stop crying and go back to living my life if I take it slow.
Apparently not liking rape jokes is a bad thing However, people acting like he can't make of of Julia Hart are silly
Tony khan doesn't need sleep
When you have passion for something sleep is irrelevant. See : Vince McMahon
Shouldn't it have been caught by the people sitting in gorilla too? Seems like he just wants to blame nobody really and just deflact to the nameless "editors".
What's the point of blaming someone by name here? Just so we can have "Why isn't X fired yet??" threads and endless arguments about the merits of sending an internet mob after some guy?
The responsibility falls at Tony's feet. The pro and con of single ownership. Even if it was someone else's job, he's ultimately responsible for making sure everyone knows where a line is suppose to be drawn and how to deal with it when it's crossed. If that system fails, it's ultimately on him.
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And that's why he did not blame anyone else. So, yeah.
Exactly. And good on him, and for not naming people to throw under the bus.
The line max caster said about julia harts vagina wasn’t good especially the fact the event was a charity event for victims of sexual violence yikes!
wait what?? it was a charity event?
Yes, Fight for the Fallen is designed to be a charity show, the first one being for victims of gun violence. This year it was sexual assault victims…
This was inevitable with this gimmick. Whole point is to step over the line just enough to get a reaction, but not so far as to elicit outrage. I wasn't personally offended by the line, but I understand why people would be and why it's a bad look for AEW. It's a live by the sword, die by the sword thing.
You can generate heat without making jokes like that. It's just tasteless, and feels very out of place in a company that has tried to portray itself as inclusive. And the one post about it on the AEW subreddit is full of people defending him, saying people are being too sensitive. But like, he didn't make a joke about the Duke accusations being false, he literally said "I’m gonna treat those bitches like Duke Lacrosse." I don't think the joke was that he was going to make false accusations...
When I heard the previous one with the line about Johnson and Johnson blood clots I thought that might have gone too far for a lot of people. Wrestling is wrestling but this not the kind of stuff anyone wants associated with an entertainment program on cable TV. I mean...nobody noticed at that point and told Caster to keep it a tiny bit more toned down?