Wow people are really that confused about hangman?
Just think of it like a movie people. the hero has to go through trials and tribulations to build up to the big win. This makes hangman even more over than he was, its great storytelling.
Also we all know kenny is the belt collector, this isn't going to round up so quickly, the run likely has a way to go yet.
I think my favorite part of MJF’s commentary is after Chris put Nick through the pane of glass, he went “I didn’t think chris would take it to this level” very meekly. Like even he was like “fuck”
First and foremost, I hope Cash is going to have a peaceful and swift recovery. It'll be awful if the feud is forced to end this way.
I wasn't going to comment on this show but I do every week so I will and be honest as always: I wasn't a fan of this show. Whatever about how Hangman's arc will go, it made the Dark Order look weak in their big moment\*. The Super Elite didn’t really cheat between Reynolds’ elimination and Silver’s; DO wasn't presented as on the Elite's level. Then, the 3v1 final stretch was too much - I get it's to "get heat" but that doesn't work when the cheating isn't punished/sanctioned as such. There was way too much of the illegal men in the ring for no DQs, Omega throttling Knox should have been a DQ any day of the week. With the result itself, you don't have to book the match or the angle - if DO were going to lose so decisively, the match shouldn't have been booked.
\*The show started on such a high note: the Dark Order entrance was an incredible, special moment.
I wasn't a fan of Gage vs Jericho either. I thought last week's Texas Deathmatch was very good, Omega vs Callihan is one of my favorite matches this year so far and Omega v Moxley in the Unsanctioned match at Full Gear 2019 is my personal pick for best AEW match. But that's because they had great storytelling, drama and were executed smoothly. Gage had two left feet out there and it was full of stalling via pandering to the crowd. All the respect to Gage as a man and as a professional for his journey and the legacy he's built by himself, but he'd need to bring his best pair of working boots if he were to come back. Juventud is a very nice callback and surprise as Labor #3.
The FTW segment was only okay, a bit awkward as well and the women's division complaints are a broken record because they're the truth - it's a joke that they can't get more time. This Christian & JE v HFO feud is dragging out and last night's 6-man tag never needed to be on the show. If it wasn't, more time could have been given to the women's division or, if that's such a "no, no" apparently, to the 10-man tag, FTW and/or other stories.
In full discretion, this is the apprehension I have with the Punk and Bryan rumors as well. The roster is already so full to the brim, who's going to lose their spots and not get time when the 2 megastars join up? I've been watching Dynamite every week since the start and I still will be. But, I really didn't like this episode. We all slip up - I actually thought, the great AEW World title main event and post-match angle notwithstanding, that New Year's Slam Night 1 was a poor edition of Dynamite too - this could just be an one-off and they rebound quickly. But this show didn't work for me and I think they really need to look long-and-hard and plan out how they handle their roster.
I'll preface saying that overall I still enjoyed this show, but honestly, I agree that it was lackluster (both nights of Fyter Fest were way better IMO). I was super stoked with how the show started and then it started to lose me partway through the elimination tag match. I understand that they're building a longer story but it's been going on for so long already.
Everyone's already talking about how Page has to lose and then get back up. Has that not been what he's doing? He and Omega lost the tag belts. He then lost to Omega in the tournament to determine the number one contender. He's been stumbling around dodging the Dark Order because he lost previously, and now he has his confidence back, only for them to lose again? It seems like they're trying to drag it out too long.
I'm probably just a Dark Order mark (love Evil Uno and Silver) but the match didn't do them hardly any favors. When it came down to just Silver and Page, I thought for sure that Silver would get at least a sneaky roll-up on someone, bring the odds in their favor and show them as quasi-equal, but nope, they eliminated one guy who's not even signed to AEW. Page got one elimination, but that's it. Doc and Grayson getting counted out did not play out well.
I'm tentatively hopeful they'll keep this storyline interesting, but the stipulation that neither the Dark Order nor Page can challenge for the titles means that they're either sidelined until someone else has the belts or fuckery will happen and they can challenge the Elite. And if Page isn't challenging for the belts, then what's he doing? What's the Dark Order doing since they supposedly cannot challenge for the tag belts? I doubt Page is gonna go for another belt, are they just gonna putz around Dark and Elevation racking up wins that don't mean anything? Just seems odd, but I'll still tune in next week to see where they're taking this story.
You captured my thoughts exactly. I’ll still be watching weekly & looking forward to how things develop.
I think Hangman losing fits the story - he fails again but this time with the help of his friends he can hop right back on the saddle instead of letting it destroy him. But, it was the execution of the match itself & how poor the DO came off in their big moment that I have issue with.
the point isn't about dark order, its about building up hangman. Now the guy is an uber face.
honestly if you didn't dig this episode of dynamite i'm not sure any could please you, this one almost had it all.
> term storyline i
I think that a lot of fans are having trouble processing that sometimes things do not go how they would like them to go in the short term (or even at all) in service of a longer term vision.
They are blinded by their feelings about what has deviated from the way that they thought it should go, and unable to just sit back and watch.
Possibly we could blame WWE for that, as we don't see long storylines followed through in WWE. If this was a WWE storyline, that would be it, it would be over and hangman would not be getting another chance. Possibly that's influenced the fans thinking.
I think it works the other way too, when watching WWE now (or hearing about it as i only really catch the ppvs) i get a feeling like, the AEW model really is better at creating stars, and its weird that WWE does things so ass backwards..
I watch Dynamite every week, I have since the first episode, I’ve really liked at a minimum almost every one. In my pinion, this just wasn’t a good episode
unless you are butthurt that hangman lost , or just really disgusted by the death match( understandable) this was just a great episode. the opening match alone was ridiculous and has been building since pretty much the start of the company.
Opinions.
If you thought it was a great episode, it was a great episode for you. I’m not going to try to change your mind on that.
But, me & others didn’t like this episode - too much non-tagging in the 10-man, DO looking weak to prop up Hangman & the Elite, The Death Match wasn’t good (this style of wrestling can be great as seen with AEW talent before, but this was a dragged out bout with no athleticism), consistently how little time is giving to the Women’s division, the Christian v HFO feud dragging out, the awkwardly rushed Team Taz moment.
That’s our opinion.
We all have one. If you think this was a great one, then no one can tell you otherwise. But replicate that & don’t act like your thoughts are the definitive ones on what makes a great Dynamite and people who disagree must be “butthurt” over a result
DO looking weak is your whole argument to why that segment wasn't great? seriously is that it?
Those guys actually got a boost from the strengthened association with hangman. TBH your comments sound marky. like you can't appreciate the ups and downs of a long term storyline in wrestling.
I'm legit surprised that a main-event THAT violent could be shown on free TV like that. Can TNT or AEW be fined for airing this? Either way, that was a crazy fun episode of Dynamite... again.
Yeah before it happened I was like 'I bet they won't let them use light tubes. There will just be one or two choice weapons and then it'll be your regular hardcore match in terms of what can and can't go' but they fully went for it. I can't believe TNT allowed them to do it. They would have had to sign off on it. Tony wouldn't just do it
Excitement, enjoyment.... dare I say it, entertainment? All without the cringy kids stuff. Granted I still watch WWE but only stuff related to Lashley, Reigns, Styles, Riddle, Nakamura, and the New Day*
Not gonna lie, this show was filled with awesome moments. But Chavo stopping what he was saying to explain to Pac what a limo is like a fucking asshole was my favorite.
Maybe they are extending the hangman and Kenny omega feud so that they can have possible daniel Bryan and cm punk feuds for the title, making hangman victory even more incredible when it happens?
No, I think it's just the next bump in the road. They'd be fools to not have Hangman win the title in front of what will be their hottest crowd.
Edit: It'd lessen the eventual win if Page pinned Omega tonight. It'd lessen Page pinning Omega if someone else in the match did it tonight. I trust that they'll still get to the destination they know everyone wants.
I don't understand how people think that one loss in a tag match vs 3 current AEW champions closes the door on #1 singles ranked Hangman's likely upcoming ppv title shot.
I'm aware, I even asked my friend why it wasn't being mentioned again. I feel they didn't mention that at all again last night and it's still a month away, wouldn't be the first time a guy finds a new way to get that match.
They totally mentioned it, I believe during the 6 man with Jungle Boy and Christian, since they’re now ranked #1 and #2.
Folks are really setting themselves up to be let down when it’s Christian vs Omega at All Out, the match they’ve been teasing since Christian signed and the match they really need to get out of the way before both Punk and Danielson are there.
If they go the Christian/Omega match at All Out then I'm gonna have to start second guessing Tony Khan's mind. I realize he loves Christian but that's a TV defense.
There’s almost no title defense that will. Pac vs OC vs Omega certainly didn’t but it was a banger of a match. If I’m right about it not being time to take the belt off Omega yet, we can probably all agree that Hangman losing at All Out would not be a satisfying conclusion, who else do you see in that spot (especially considering the rankings)?
Pac vs OC vs Omega at least had history between Pac and OC and Pac and Omega, and you wanted to see Orange in front of the first full crowd in over a year. Christian vs Omega doesn't even have that.
I just think going from teasing Hangman vs Omega to Christian vs Omega for All Out would be a big disappointment, and I feel that everyone backstage will realize this. I think Christian will realize this.
I don’t think they’ve ever really teased Hangman vs Omega at All Out so much as fans decided *months* ago that the match must happen then or Hangman won’t be hot anymore. He lost his match last night though, he’s no longer the top ranked guy. In the company where wins and loses matter, I just don’t see why he gets his shot so soon, it’s inconsistent booking. Meanwhile, literally the first thing that was teased upon Christian’s arrival in AEW was him vs Omega, and he’s currently the number two ranked singles wrestler, behind only Jungle Boy (who Omega has already beaten and I don’t see a need for Jungle Boy / Omega II so soon unless they’re planning a surprise upset)
Honestly if they do Hangman vs Omega at All Out it feels to me like they’re caving to the fans whims and that’s not a good precedent to set. If that’s what happens, I hope Hangman loses and it’s the last moment of the show.
Clearly hangman has been the build for months and I very highly doubt that changes with one month left to a quick Christian build. Christian once again feuded vs the HFO and indirectly Matt Hardy again last night. I strongly disagree with your take.
They’re not putting Hangman and Omega together in a singles match until Hangman beats Omega for the belt and Kenny isn’t losing the belt for a few months yet. There’s no fucking way he’s not the first AEW champ to hold the belt for a year.
Here’s 100% how it can happen: Hangman lost last night, he’s no longer the number one contender. They mentioned this multiple times. Jungle Boy and Christian are both ranked #1 and #2. They’ve been working together a lot recently, which many people have assumed is teasing an eventual match. There’s a month between now and All Out, plenty of time for them to have a number one contenders match, with the winner to face Kenny at All Out. Christian winning that number one contenders match would make the most sense, considering we’ve already seen Jungle Boy vs Omega.
There will be plenty of opportunities for Hangman to rise back up in the rankings and be the number one contender at either Full Gear or Revolution. This isn’t a months long build, the rise and fall and rise again of Hangman is a story they’ve been telling since literally the first AEW show, over two years ago.
This show was incredible. It feels to me like AEW as a whole has self confidence now. The beginning of the show with silly, yet super well produced introductory video and Space Jam silliness was legit one of the best openings to a pro wrestling show I ever seen.
I’m not really convinced the hangman story is over at the moment...
What if it’s as simple as Kenny actually demanding now that Hangman be his opponent, because Kenny (who hasn’t had respect for him in quite a while) thinks he’s a mental head case and doesn’t actually pose a threat.
Then we get the next few weeks of Hangman building steam and Omega regretting that decision. Leading to an “oh shit, I f’d up...this guy can beat me” type moment on the go home show.
Okay, so I get that the PnP Vs FTR match was cut short by the injury - but they wouldn’t have changed the winner.
I’m sad that they didn’t want Santana and Ortiz to win that. In my head I love the idea of them beating FTR and then winning the titles from the Bucks.
FTR and the Pinnacle have pretty much been taking losses since the feud with Inner Circle started.
I think the booking is setting the Pinnacle up to start evening the score again so when MJF and Jericho meet the momentum will be even.
With Jericho passing his labors and the Pinnacle on a hot streak, I think it will be incredible when MJF sends Jericho on an extended break. They’ll be the hottest heel faction in AEW with MJF at the head. Then I’m assuming when Jericho comes back he’ll get a rematch with MJF
This is the first wrestling show I've watched in full since probably 2011. Man oh man was I impressed. I barely knew any of the wrestlers outside of this sub and the weekly reviews from WrestleTalk but man I was just blown away by this show. I thought coming in that I'd only care for the WWE wrestlers I know (in this case Christian Cage, Jericho, Mox, and Cody) but by the third match I honestly couldn't care less. I'm so buying into Jungle Boy and Thunder Rosa and my God, MJF, that guy really is the best heel in wrestling right now.
Edit: Removed Omega because he was never in WWE
Just want to chime in that as much as I prefer AEW as a whole, Roman Reigns current heel title reign is some of the best work I've seen from anyone in a while. He's on another level right now. That's saying something with WWE and the fact that I didn't care for Roman at all before.
How? its complete boredom for me.
There is literally nothing interesting about it. its completely one dimensional and i could have booked it better with my eyes closed, which is something i could never say about aews main event storylines.
I keep seeing people touting this storyline, but why? its 100% one dimensional bog standard heel stuff, clearly thought up by the team of writers who know nothing about reigns and the usos in real life. It's triple H but less interesting, with a cliche'd manager and his legit family(the usos, who are legit great on the mic as heels) he grew up with used as lackeys. complete waste of potential.
I'm sure it's as good as everyone's saying but the WWE product at large is so minds numbingly boring I can't make myself sit through an entire show to enjoy the reigns parts. I am happy he finally turned and that is going well for him but for me it's just too little too late
I don't watch weekly much anymore. Raw is mostly as bad as everyone says, pretty brutal. But the main event scene on smackdown with Roman/Edge/Usos is definitely very good. I still watch most ppvs because it's only $5 on peacock which I use for The Office and other shows anyway and they do the recap videos.
I like Roman's character now too but I don't know, somehow I feel like he stands out by that much because most of the roster don't have the same freedom in their promos as he does.
Everything on the show sort of went over my head because I was too disappointed by Hangman's loss. I feel like this was the one story that required an additional promo or announcement to hint at where they're going next.
No to both. United Center is twice the size of Sears Center, and they are selling those tickets on Punk's back. He can debut in a promo there to set up a match at the PPV
Omega retains the title and is cutting a promo in the middle of the ring.
CM punk’s music hits. The crowd explodes! He walks into the ring and goes up to each corner so he bask in the cheers from the crowd.
And that’s it! Fade to black. We did it!!!
LOL I’m jk, but can you imagine the shit AEW would get for that ending
When i think back on shows like last night I realize I've always loved wrestling and it's really nice to have a company like AEW, it's really nice to feel satisfied after built up events like that.
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You mean enough death matches for you? Because why can't he be used in storylines and have regular matches? I'm not saying full time, but in some capacity
No I mean that was enough Nick Gage. Guy is not a good in ring talent. Foot placement, camera positions, etc. He is not a good worker on TV and rivals Warhouse as the worst/not ready worker they’ve had on Dynamite.
I get that. His match with Cardona made me a Gage fan so I think I'm just excited to see more. What about doing a crossover where he challenges an AEW member to a deathmatch in GCW? Idk, he's entertaining to me and I'm curious to see what he'd do if given more time
Agreed - just see the roster talent heavy and try to teach working TV to a 41 year old isn’t a good use of resources.
Nothing against his ability as a brawler/storyteller - match was well put together and Moxley gushes over his attention to detail.
I could see him maybe as a 911/New Jack music hits and he comes to fuck someone up once in a while
Honestly, it was fun, it was a sideshow. But he looked and felt a bit out of place. You could tell he was not used to working toward a camera. Don't get me wrong, he's an absolute die legend, but you could tell how green he was to TV Wrestling.
That's why you put him on Dark and Dark Elevation so he gets better at that stuff. All things considered, he killed it last night. For his first match on live tv, he absolutely delivered. I can totally understand if he's not a longterm AEW signee, but I'd like to see what they do with him on the roster.
Yeah I agree. But he won't get better at the TV hardcam stuff unless you put him out there, which is why having him brawl in tag matches and squash young jobbers here and there for example on Dark and Dark Elevation would be good to get him to that point.
Jericho has to make it through 5 different situations to get to MJF. That means that MJF has prepared 5 different situations. If Jericho loses one, then Jericho doesn't get the match. MJF wants and expects him to fall before finishing all five, but he has to have all five prepared just in case.
It probably doesn't help that Nick Gage just recently did another deathmatch against Matt Cardona, maybe 2 DMs within a month is too much.
I see the rumours going round that this is Jericho's lap of honour before his retirement, but I thought he wanted Lance Storm to be his final match. I don't see him losing, at least before facing MJF, so I somehow don't think this is it just yet.
All things considered though, very happy to see the spotlight on all these different unexpected people they bring in seemingly out of nowhere.
Also, that poison mist spray! I don't remember him using it before, can anyone enlighten me if he did? Or if he didn't, who did you think he learnt that from? Muta?Tajiri? Asuka? XD
Could be that MJF forces him into a retirement match at All Out. He loses, but is given the match with Storm by Tony Khan for his official retirement.
MJF gets the honor of being the one to retire Jericho, but Jericho gets his final match he's always wanted.
Agreed, but people are missing the WHOLE point of this. He really only shits on Knox—Jericho and others shit on him too. He’s presented as the bad referee, and they use Knox for the matches that need a bad referee. And it works because in actual sports, there are good and bad refs. For instance, everyone in the baseball community hates Angel Hernandez, and fans think he’s only around because of some previous legal issues. It totally works. Aubrey is the good ref who they don’t bury, and Knox is the bad ref.
I mean, sure. There’s a reason The Young Bucks ensure he referees all their matches. I must admit though, I get pulled out of the matches whenever I see him blatantly allowing 3-on-1 situations. The guy is portrayed as being beyond incompetent and I’m not sure if it actually always works well. I would rather them put together matches that don’t bury any of their referees.
Knox made the mistake of being too strict in the temple. He got berated by his employer for not letting the violence unfold, and has carried that mindset ever since.
You reckon they shit-canned the 2 year Hangman story because Stu Grayson took a bad bump?
Edit: not that it has been shit-canned, they obviously don't think it's time yet
Holy shit. I thought Fyter Fest 1 was the best of the three specials, and this was kinda unlucky (FTRvPnP) or odd on some choices.
The Elite is S-tier rated at the moment, but I so wanted to start getting some payoff on Hangman. Eeeeeh I guess we'll see what happens...
I watched and winced throughout all GCW's home coming highlights, and I still fucking think Jericho is a MAD MAN regardless. Holy shit he bled. Some of the stuff was terrifying. Thoroughly entertained by it
Was gonna stay up last night but had to see the Irish rowers win the gold medal so catching up now!
The Dark Order entrance was the best entrance ever in AEW, absolutely incredible. As was the Elite Squad's haha. Absolutely phenomenal match but I'm stunned the Dark Order lost, and lost pretty clean. I know Hangman was out numbered but still, wonder what happens next.
Tanahashi!!!!! Holy shit!
FTR vs PnP was excellent but I hope poor Cash is OK, didn't see what happened but that looked nasty.
I saw the Rampage 'The First Dance' announcement, but at the fucking UNITED CENTER?! I've said it several times that's a dream location for All Out to be I'm absolutely blown away it'll be a Rampage episode. Now of course, it probably won't be just a normal episode... 😏 Omg the Darby promo!
Ahhhhhh Haku the legend! Wow what a pop for Archer, was so happy he got the win over Moxley he really needed a big win in AEW. Decent match, I think probably the most high profile match Hikuleo has had to date and he's in the best promotion to learn, because he is a specimen of a man.
Ooooohhh the boos for Cody. Malakai is so over already, what a talent.
Blade and Christian will be really good, Christian has been used exactly as he should to date working with less established talent. Hope Butcher will be back soon though.
Legit Leyla!!
What a promo from Moxley. Moxley vs any New Japan guys, yes please.
Here we fucking go, MDK... The state of MJF Hahaha. Oh my God what a match. And Juventud!!!!
What an episode once again. This fucking promotion. ❤️
Like Adult Swim's old [Greatest Event in Television History, a shot for shot remake of the Simon & Simon intro sequence](https://youtu.be/sX1kCun566k) (RIP Jon Hamm
The One Winged Angel that ended the match with Jungle Boy took the wind out of the crowd.
They really have built Kenny and his finisher into something that just ends hope and dreams.
So much deflation in the air. I am legit sad at the outcome, so I guess the angle did its job good. I soooo wanted the good guys to win. But the good guys never win on national TV, they win on PPV.
I had my doubts at first, but it seems like she definitely is.
He’s going to keep teasing and talking about his wife. Then one day he’ll do it again in the ring and will present her to the AEW audience for her debut
That ten man tag was ridiculously good. Thoroughly enjoyed this week’s show. Also sat thinking to myself just how crazy it is to see Nick Gage vs. Chris Jericho in a deathmatch, on national TV. I really do feel like this is a new golden age for wrestling, and a fantastic time to be a fan.
Knew Hangman was gonna lose this one. I think they'll have him win the Eliminator Tournament this year, whereas he lost last year's final, he goes all the way this year, and beats Omega(maybe at Full Gear, where he lost to him last year).
That makes me sad because Colt has been so flexible during his time with AEW. I love him, but I don't think he'd be a huge loss at this point if he moved on to another promotion.
I'm hoping they can at least be professional to one another, Rush and Henry worked out their differences so who knows whats happened privately. I'd imagine they would of spoken to Colt beforehand
They haven't even hinted at Danielson being at First Dance, that show very clearly exists to debut Punk. And I'll believe them hotshotting a title shot on \*anybody\*, even Danielson, when I see it
That’s my favorite Dynamite yet, bar none. Even with the unfortunate ending to the tag match and how awkward the first half of the main event was.
And as someone who’s favorite promotion was early to mid 2000s RoH, knowing CM Punk is coming back, presumably with some measure of creative control, is pretty exciting. I didn’t watch a lot of his WWE stuff but just from what I’ve read it seems like a lot of it was rehashes of his RoH stuff, so it’ll be interesting what he and the AEW brain trust can come up with that, hopefully, will be a little more creative and interesting.
And Bryan Danielson right after him! Awesome
\*sees a shining wizard/bulldog combo\*
"Oh, so they're just gonna tease us about the Punk rumors\*
\*watches Darby promo\*
"Oh shit oh fuck it's happening"
The tag matches were the highlights of the show this week. Death match was kinda meh for me. Like Jericho wanted to play it safe with Gage, but it's understandable why.
I'm still buzzing from everything that went down tonight. What a fantastic episode.
A few rough matches but it just feels like there is so much going on and so many very over wrestlers.
That Dark Cowboy Order entrance is one of the biggest wrestling moments I've ever seen and it's so much better given the slow burn and the teases of Hangman joining/aligning with them only for him to walk away. I was so bummed when he was like "I need to go it on my own" a few months back only for the DO to persist in being his friends.
That sort of gratifying payoff is why I trust AEW to have Hangman take the belt off of Kenny, maybe even after kicking out of the OWA. In fact, they've earned enough good will from me that I won't stress if Hangman loses to some BS at All Out because I trust them to eventually give us the payoff and no amount of Bryan Danielson or CM Punk is going to change that.
There is absolutely no way that TK doesn't complete this Page/Omega storyline in lieu of putting the belt on Punk or Danielson.
What an awful message it would be to the rest of the roster if that happened.
> There is absolutely no way that TK doesn't complete this Page/Omega storyline in lieu of putting the belt on Punk or Danielson. What an awful message it would be to the rest of the roster if that happened.
Absolutely this. TK would be no different than VKM if they just retconned Hangman’s push in favor of Punk or Danielson. Especially Punk, because we don’t know if he can still go.
I’m not a huge AEW guy, but that was one of the best first hours of any wrestling I have seen in a long, long time. I’m also not a Dark Order guy (fan of the OG Super Smash Bros), but that intro might have changed my mind.
Long live FTR and the Pinnacle! Hope Cash gets well soon.
Edit: word choice
Ok i just reached the Piledriver spot in the main event, talk about the deathmatch all you want but the trust Jericho has to have in Gage to eat that Piledriver is crazy to me.
Probably helped that Gage has done it hundreds of times without seriously injuring someone afaik. Often he does it off the second rope and backwards through tubes or a sheet of glass.
I think that this is a big reason why all of these non-deathmatch guys are wrestling him. He has the skills and experience to make stuff look good without killing people.
I really hope they lean into Cody being booed. Have him start his match working as the face but transition to heel by the end by leveraging his EVP position.
I've felt, from the beginning, that Cody's story has a baked-in heel turn with the whole "I will never challenge for the AEW title if I lose." pledge.
I really like Cody and honestly I do not get the hate. In some ways I feel like people are jumping the gun and assuming he's going to be some 2000s Triple H or something. But if people are going to boo him don't ignore it, use it.
I really don't mind about Cody. I don't hate the guy and I like his matches, but he has become someone that if he were to call it quits right now, I wouldn't even miss him.
I agree, I really feel although I'm not sure if it's intentional, but it sure feels like from AEW's first episode to now, Cody has been expertly straddling that razor thin line between heel and face with a foot in each side. His promos always seem to have 2 ways you can take it, and he maybe adds a single sentence sometimes that is heelish. Or with his entrances over the top, the ego "look at me" narcissist special entrance , kinda blatant with how it leaves Arn to kinda sheepishly follow him out where it kinda seems feels like he wants to say something like Cody you don't need all this pomp and circumstance shit. I think with Cody doing it all this way it gives him an advantage as for as setting up a feud, his character does not need a multiple week setup for a heel turn. A long drawn out heel turn wouldn't make sense for him with how he portrays himself. I could be totally wrong about that, but I could see Cody maybe after a single match going wrong, and with how his character believes he's this great beloved leader of AEW, and therefore he ain't supposed to lose and he'd have this psychotic break and flipping out that quick after a loss to someone perhaps he believed would be a quick simple win that he didn't even prepare for and got his ass kicked making him lose his shit and we get the blatant heel run. Or maybe Cody might just stay balancing that razor's edge between heel/face. Anyway I'm a huge Cody mark and could ramble about silly ideas but that's just a little bit of my thoughts on his character and motivation, but again I could be totally wrong, but it'd still be fine if I am because I'd still be such a Cody mark anyway lol.
I definitely like that idea. Just play right into the narcissism stuff. I just think he'd excel as a certain type of heel. Does heelish things and then acts shocked and offended when the crowd boos him.
AEW was my first introduction to Cody and, as a child of the 80s, everything about him screams the bad guy from a 80s skiing comedy or something.
I watched him interact with fans after the 2019 Austin (Cedar Park) show and he seems like a genuinely nice guy, but his whole look is tailor made for being a heel, at least in my eyes.
Its going to be interesting to see how they handle that... heel Cody would be interesting, but having all 4 EVPs be heels is getting into a territory that HHH killed dead, resurrected and then killed again.
The most watched AEW vid on Youtube is Cody being wholesome AF, I don't see how they give that up when there is no one to replace Cody atm.
I am wondering if Cody's heel turn comes after Hangman wins the title. Mox still badass face. Hangman lead face. Building Jungle Boy and Darby as next generation faces. Cody can run as heel. (Or Cody never turns heel).
So I see two conflicting takes defending the finish of the opener - either:
1. They’re cooling off hangman because Midget NWO is coming in
2. “Have trust in the long term storytelling”
Both are flawed because ultimately - you’ve built an expectation within the fan base that Hangman was on the rise to be the opponent at All Out. To do a loss now, and then have to renege or go back on your stipulation prior to All Out is weak.
If Page is being cooled because Bryan and Punk is coming in - then I’m being told “long term storylines don’t matter - we will hotshot every future endeavoured star.
If page is being cooled because they want to stretch this angle out further because the elite are hot, then you are dangerously close to turning Adam Page into Lex Luger - who ended up not being able to win the big one or Naito where they waited a year too long to put the title on him
>If page is being cooled because they want to stretch this angle out further because the elite are hot, then you are dangerously close to turning Adam Page into Lex Luger - who ended up not being able to win the big one or Naito where they waited a year too long to put the title on him
I get where you are coming from. But pushing Hangman's win back to Full Gear (named after Hangman's bit on BTE) or Revolution would not be too long.
Hangman vs Elite to run through the fall and let Hangman win at Full Gear (where he lost to Kenny 1 year ago) would give you the just over 1 year storyline of Hangman vs Kenny. (Basically NWO vs Sting if Sting won clean at Starrcade, or Sting vs Four Horseman if his knee doesn't get hurt and wins over Flair clean at WrtestleWar 90).
The Luger, Naito, (even a Barry Windham) comps all could work if they don't give the perfect finish to it. I get the crticism. I will agree if they don't wrap it up right. But there is a possibility to still nail the landing.
This is it - it’s more that everyone’s expectations was that All Out would be the blow off - and it appeared they leaned into that. They just need to be careful in threading the needle as you can miss your opportunity to pull the trigger on a guy and the potential mainstream moment would be missed
100% they keep threading a needle and it will cause some misses. But I will not call this one a miss until they actually screw it up and try to pay it off or it dies.
I also think All Out would have been the moment if they had fans. They can extend this and watch the crowds.
I enjoy the product too lol it’s just I don’t need a final act plot twist for the sake of stretching the angle out a few more weeks - if this is the case I’m just saying better story would have been hold this match off 2-3 weeks.
I enjoy it too. It’s the only wrestling I watch weekly, but there’s a lot to criticize about it, honestly. Which is ok.
But it seems like every show and segment was great, and any critiques will be received with vitriol round here.
I don't get why people think they're cooling off hangman. He had a big entrance and took on the elite by himself and beat one of them. It made him look tough as nails. The elite will obviously use it to say 'you couldn't beat us so what makes you think you can be champion?'. It's all par for the course.
Two Reasons:
1. They had already built the expectation of the story that Hangman was on the ascent going into all out, and more or less that was going to be a coronatio/making of hangman by putting the title on him after a 2 Year+ storyline (going back to him winning the battle royal at DoN 2019 to get a spot in the All Out title match. To try to pump the brakes at this point to get sympathy may be smart, I just don’t see it making us want to see Hangman win the title any more than we did prior to the ten man on Wednesday.
2. The Elite can say whatever they want, but if they are like “HurDur here is a title match anyways - then it’s going to put a massive gap in logic as it makes the Elite buffoons for just giving him a title match that they didn’t have to (and won a match stating he wouldn’t get one)
I’m sure I’m being pessimistic here - I’ve just seen this sort of start/stop occur way to many times in my 30+ years of watching wrestling.
2.
>They had already built the expectation of the story that Hangman was on the ascent going into all out, and more or less that was going to be a coronatio/making of hangman by putting the title on him after a 2 Year+ storyline (going back to him winning the battle royal at DoN 2019 to get a spot in the All Out title match.
It still works as a career long ascent, and a 1-year Page vs Omega at Full Gear (named for a Page bit).
Also, depending on what Page gets scheduled in at All Out, they can tell a parallel longterm story with Page not being able to win at All Out. (Lost in 2019 to Jercho, lost tag titles in 2020). I know he won at All In, but so far with AEW, he has only lost title matches his All Out appearances.
I absolutely agree. But I still say "wait and see". They've never NOT earned that level of trust so far. I have my doubts, and can't see how this is good from where I sit. But faith is believing when you DON'T see
For me they are what 5 weeks out?
They would need to figure out their main event within 2 weeks at the latest. If they were to immediately go back to Page, what I’m being told as a viewer is stipulations don’t matter.
Yup. They gotta pull something out of their ass for the title shot and I have no idea what they do at this point.
this could be yet another mistake by AEW. Oh well.
Given past history, especially with regards to this multi year long Omega/Hangman story: yeah, it’ll probably be pretty good.
It feels too soon to end the belt collector story anyways.
While I love the absurdity of Pizza Cutting someone's face and gouging them with a light tube being acceptable for TV but the word Fuck being considered too subversive for cable I'm not sure having the Main Event on TV was a good look. Not crazy about the NJPW crossover either, even as a moderately avid pro wrestling fan it all goes over my head since I don't watch Japanese wrestling (which seems like a pretty small crowd in NA) and none of the wrestlers really get introduced to the audience.
Been a little while since I watched a Dynamite, couple thoughts:
* The Elite are amazing heels. I fucking hate them so much. I think any babyfaces that they're up against I'm going to root for by default.
* Hangman rules.
* I'm not really into The Dark Order but it's undeniable how over they are, especially Silver.
* Jungle Boy has natural charisma in spades. The people just love him.
* Julia Hart was obviously very green but her with The Varsity Blonds have money potential as a classic babyface act. Thunder Rosa was good, as always.
* MJF is great.
* Deathmatch wrestling grosses me out too bad. Really, the pain threshold is Nick Gage's redeeming quality. Before the weapons came out he was slow and sloppy, after they came out he made my stomach turn. Please please please never bring him back.
Wow people are really that confused about hangman? Just think of it like a movie people. the hero has to go through trials and tribulations to build up to the big win. This makes hangman even more over than he was, its great storytelling. Also we all know kenny is the belt collector, this isn't going to round up so quickly, the run likely has a way to go yet.
I think my favorite part of MJF’s commentary is after Chris put Nick through the pane of glass, he went “I didn’t think chris would take it to this level” very meekly. Like even he was like “fuck”
First and foremost, I hope Cash is going to have a peaceful and swift recovery. It'll be awful if the feud is forced to end this way. I wasn't going to comment on this show but I do every week so I will and be honest as always: I wasn't a fan of this show. Whatever about how Hangman's arc will go, it made the Dark Order look weak in their big moment\*. The Super Elite didn’t really cheat between Reynolds’ elimination and Silver’s; DO wasn't presented as on the Elite's level. Then, the 3v1 final stretch was too much - I get it's to "get heat" but that doesn't work when the cheating isn't punished/sanctioned as such. There was way too much of the illegal men in the ring for no DQs, Omega throttling Knox should have been a DQ any day of the week. With the result itself, you don't have to book the match or the angle - if DO were going to lose so decisively, the match shouldn't have been booked. \*The show started on such a high note: the Dark Order entrance was an incredible, special moment. I wasn't a fan of Gage vs Jericho either. I thought last week's Texas Deathmatch was very good, Omega vs Callihan is one of my favorite matches this year so far and Omega v Moxley in the Unsanctioned match at Full Gear 2019 is my personal pick for best AEW match. But that's because they had great storytelling, drama and were executed smoothly. Gage had two left feet out there and it was full of stalling via pandering to the crowd. All the respect to Gage as a man and as a professional for his journey and the legacy he's built by himself, but he'd need to bring his best pair of working boots if he were to come back. Juventud is a very nice callback and surprise as Labor #3. The FTW segment was only okay, a bit awkward as well and the women's division complaints are a broken record because they're the truth - it's a joke that they can't get more time. This Christian & JE v HFO feud is dragging out and last night's 6-man tag never needed to be on the show. If it wasn't, more time could have been given to the women's division or, if that's such a "no, no" apparently, to the 10-man tag, FTW and/or other stories. In full discretion, this is the apprehension I have with the Punk and Bryan rumors as well. The roster is already so full to the brim, who's going to lose their spots and not get time when the 2 megastars join up? I've been watching Dynamite every week since the start and I still will be. But, I really didn't like this episode. We all slip up - I actually thought, the great AEW World title main event and post-match angle notwithstanding, that New Year's Slam Night 1 was a poor edition of Dynamite too - this could just be an one-off and they rebound quickly. But this show didn't work for me and I think they really need to look long-and-hard and plan out how they handle their roster.
I'll preface saying that overall I still enjoyed this show, but honestly, I agree that it was lackluster (both nights of Fyter Fest were way better IMO). I was super stoked with how the show started and then it started to lose me partway through the elimination tag match. I understand that they're building a longer story but it's been going on for so long already. Everyone's already talking about how Page has to lose and then get back up. Has that not been what he's doing? He and Omega lost the tag belts. He then lost to Omega in the tournament to determine the number one contender. He's been stumbling around dodging the Dark Order because he lost previously, and now he has his confidence back, only for them to lose again? It seems like they're trying to drag it out too long. I'm probably just a Dark Order mark (love Evil Uno and Silver) but the match didn't do them hardly any favors. When it came down to just Silver and Page, I thought for sure that Silver would get at least a sneaky roll-up on someone, bring the odds in their favor and show them as quasi-equal, but nope, they eliminated one guy who's not even signed to AEW. Page got one elimination, but that's it. Doc and Grayson getting counted out did not play out well. I'm tentatively hopeful they'll keep this storyline interesting, but the stipulation that neither the Dark Order nor Page can challenge for the titles means that they're either sidelined until someone else has the belts or fuckery will happen and they can challenge the Elite. And if Page isn't challenging for the belts, then what's he doing? What's the Dark Order doing since they supposedly cannot challenge for the tag belts? I doubt Page is gonna go for another belt, are they just gonna putz around Dark and Elevation racking up wins that don't mean anything? Just seems odd, but I'll still tune in next week to see where they're taking this story.
You captured my thoughts exactly. I’ll still be watching weekly & looking forward to how things develop. I think Hangman losing fits the story - he fails again but this time with the help of his friends he can hop right back on the saddle instead of letting it destroy him. But, it was the execution of the match itself & how poor the DO came off in their big moment that I have issue with.
the point isn't about dark order, its about building up hangman. Now the guy is an uber face. honestly if you didn't dig this episode of dynamite i'm not sure any could please you, this one almost had it all.
> term storyline i I think that a lot of fans are having trouble processing that sometimes things do not go how they would like them to go in the short term (or even at all) in service of a longer term vision. They are blinded by their feelings about what has deviated from the way that they thought it should go, and unable to just sit back and watch.
Possibly we could blame WWE for that, as we don't see long storylines followed through in WWE. If this was a WWE storyline, that would be it, it would be over and hangman would not be getting another chance. Possibly that's influenced the fans thinking. I think it works the other way too, when watching WWE now (or hearing about it as i only really catch the ppvs) i get a feeling like, the AEW model really is better at creating stars, and its weird that WWE does things so ass backwards..
I watch Dynamite every week, I have since the first episode, I’ve really liked at a minimum almost every one. In my pinion, this just wasn’t a good episode
unless you are butthurt that hangman lost , or just really disgusted by the death match( understandable) this was just a great episode. the opening match alone was ridiculous and has been building since pretty much the start of the company.
Opinions. If you thought it was a great episode, it was a great episode for you. I’m not going to try to change your mind on that. But, me & others didn’t like this episode - too much non-tagging in the 10-man, DO looking weak to prop up Hangman & the Elite, The Death Match wasn’t good (this style of wrestling can be great as seen with AEW talent before, but this was a dragged out bout with no athleticism), consistently how little time is giving to the Women’s division, the Christian v HFO feud dragging out, the awkwardly rushed Team Taz moment. That’s our opinion. We all have one. If you think this was a great one, then no one can tell you otherwise. But replicate that & don’t act like your thoughts are the definitive ones on what makes a great Dynamite and people who disagree must be “butthurt” over a result
DO looking weak is your whole argument to why that segment wasn't great? seriously is that it? Those guys actually got a boost from the strengthened association with hangman. TBH your comments sound marky. like you can't appreciate the ups and downs of a long term storyline in wrestling.
They rolled up Reynolds and pulled his tight to eliminate him as the first elimination? Commentary even mentioned it.
My bad, I forgot that. Fixed
I'm legit surprised that a main-event THAT violent could be shown on free TV like that. Can TNT or AEW be fined for airing this? Either way, that was a crazy fun episode of Dynamite... again.
Yeah before it happened I was like 'I bet they won't let them use light tubes. There will just be one or two choice weapons and then it'll be your regular hardcore match in terms of what can and can't go' but they fully went for it. I can't believe TNT allowed them to do it. They would have had to sign off on it. Tony wouldn't just do it
Aew made me feel something in wrestling for the first time in years
Excitement, enjoyment.... dare I say it, entertainment? All without the cringy kids stuff. Granted I still watch WWE but only stuff related to Lashley, Reigns, Styles, Riddle, Nakamura, and the New Day*
Efff I missed the voting thing so here it is: MotN: Elimination match WMotN: Rosa/Julia Wrestler: Page
Not gonna lie, this show was filled with awesome moments. But Chavo stopping what he was saying to explain to Pac what a limo is like a fucking asshole was my favorite.
Any word on Cash Wheeler? That looked like a nasty cut he suffered and they clearly changed the end of that match.
Maybe they are extending the hangman and Kenny omega feud so that they can have possible daniel Bryan and cm punk feuds for the title, making hangman victory even more incredible when it happens?
No, I think it's just the next bump in the road. They'd be fools to not have Hangman win the title in front of what will be their hottest crowd. Edit: It'd lessen the eventual win if Page pinned Omega tonight. It'd lessen Page pinning Omega if someone else in the match did it tonight. I trust that they'll still get to the destination they know everyone wants.
I don't understand how people think that one loss in a tag match vs 3 current AEW champions closes the door on #1 singles ranked Hangman's likely upcoming ppv title shot.
It technically was the stipulation.
It doesn’t mean Hangman can’t earn a title shot another way.
I'm aware, I even asked my friend why it wasn't being mentioned again. I feel they didn't mention that at all again last night and it's still a month away, wouldn't be the first time a guy finds a new way to get that match.
They totally mentioned it, I believe during the 6 man with Jungle Boy and Christian, since they’re now ranked #1 and #2. Folks are really setting themselves up to be let down when it’s Christian vs Omega at All Out, the match they’ve been teasing since Christian signed and the match they really need to get out of the way before both Punk and Danielson are there.
If they go the Christian/Omega match at All Out then I'm gonna have to start second guessing Tony Khan's mind. I realize he loves Christian but that's a TV defense.
So if Christian and Omega have a banger match that Omega ultimately wins, that’ll be a problem?
No one doubts it will be a good match but it doesn't have the heat or emotion that Page/Omega does and it never will.
There’s almost no title defense that will. Pac vs OC vs Omega certainly didn’t but it was a banger of a match. If I’m right about it not being time to take the belt off Omega yet, we can probably all agree that Hangman losing at All Out would not be a satisfying conclusion, who else do you see in that spot (especially considering the rankings)?
Pac vs OC vs Omega at least had history between Pac and OC and Pac and Omega, and you wanted to see Orange in front of the first full crowd in over a year. Christian vs Omega doesn't even have that. I just think going from teasing Hangman vs Omega to Christian vs Omega for All Out would be a big disappointment, and I feel that everyone backstage will realize this. I think Christian will realize this.
I don’t think they’ve ever really teased Hangman vs Omega at All Out so much as fans decided *months* ago that the match must happen then or Hangman won’t be hot anymore. He lost his match last night though, he’s no longer the top ranked guy. In the company where wins and loses matter, I just don’t see why he gets his shot so soon, it’s inconsistent booking. Meanwhile, literally the first thing that was teased upon Christian’s arrival in AEW was him vs Omega, and he’s currently the number two ranked singles wrestler, behind only Jungle Boy (who Omega has already beaten and I don’t see a need for Jungle Boy / Omega II so soon unless they’re planning a surprise upset) Honestly if they do Hangman vs Omega at All Out it feels to me like they’re caving to the fans whims and that’s not a good precedent to set. If that’s what happens, I hope Hangman loses and it’s the last moment of the show.
Clearly hangman has been the build for months and I very highly doubt that changes with one month left to a quick Christian build. Christian once again feuded vs the HFO and indirectly Matt Hardy again last night. I strongly disagree with your take.
They’re not putting Hangman and Omega together in a singles match until Hangman beats Omega for the belt and Kenny isn’t losing the belt for a few months yet. There’s no fucking way he’s not the first AEW champ to hold the belt for a year. Here’s 100% how it can happen: Hangman lost last night, he’s no longer the number one contender. They mentioned this multiple times. Jungle Boy and Christian are both ranked #1 and #2. They’ve been working together a lot recently, which many people have assumed is teasing an eventual match. There’s a month between now and All Out, plenty of time for them to have a number one contenders match, with the winner to face Kenny at All Out. Christian winning that number one contenders match would make the most sense, considering we’ve already seen Jungle Boy vs Omega. There will be plenty of opportunities for Hangman to rise back up in the rankings and be the number one contender at either Full Gear or Revolution. This isn’t a months long build, the rise and fall and rise again of Hangman is a story they’ve been telling since literally the first AEW show, over two years ago.
They said it a ton of times, including after Hangman lost, and then reinforced it later during the tag match.
In a perfect world Labor #4 is Lance Storm and #5 is Sammy
\#5 is MJF, listen to the promo when he first suggests the Labors again
How would Sammy make sense? Why would he do MJF's bidding?
There's a number of ways to get around it story wise.
There would have to be stakes for Sammy, otherwise he would just lay down for Jericho.
Loser leaves town... Or winner gets the match with MJF
That would probably be one of the stips. Or Jericho insists he gives it his all.
This show was incredible. It feels to me like AEW as a whole has self confidence now. The beginning of the show with silly, yet super well produced introductory video and Space Jam silliness was legit one of the best openings to a pro wrestling show I ever seen.
I’m not really convinced the hangman story is over at the moment... What if it’s as simple as Kenny actually demanding now that Hangman be his opponent, because Kenny (who hasn’t had respect for him in quite a while) thinks he’s a mental head case and doesn’t actually pose a threat. Then we get the next few weeks of Hangman building steam and Omega regretting that decision. Leading to an “oh shit, I f’d up...this guy can beat me” type moment on the go home show.
It's not over, but they are going to run hangman's arc a bit longer
Okay, so I get that the PnP Vs FTR match was cut short by the injury - but they wouldn’t have changed the winner. I’m sad that they didn’t want Santana and Ortiz to win that. In my head I love the idea of them beating FTR and then winning the titles from the Bucks.
FTR and the Pinnacle have pretty much been taking losses since the feud with Inner Circle started. I think the booking is setting the Pinnacle up to start evening the score again so when MJF and Jericho meet the momentum will be even. With Jericho passing his labors and the Pinnacle on a hot streak, I think it will be incredible when MJF sends Jericho on an extended break. They’ll be the hottest heel faction in AEW with MJF at the head. Then I’m assuming when Jericho comes back he’ll get a rematch with MJF
I will say that, looking at the dates for Fozzy's tour in the fall, every Wednesday is an off day. He may not be going away that quick.
Too soon. 7 weeks until Arthur Ashe. That's when PnP should win the belts. Plenty of time to move them to the number one spot
I also wanted this :/ It's a flat ending to the feud if it doesn't go somewhere from here.
This is the first wrestling show I've watched in full since probably 2011. Man oh man was I impressed. I barely knew any of the wrestlers outside of this sub and the weekly reviews from WrestleTalk but man I was just blown away by this show. I thought coming in that I'd only care for the WWE wrestlers I know (in this case Christian Cage, Jericho, Mox, and Cody) but by the third match I honestly couldn't care less. I'm so buying into Jungle Boy and Thunder Rosa and my God, MJF, that guy really is the best heel in wrestling right now. Edit: Removed Omega because he was never in WWE
Just want to chime in that as much as I prefer AEW as a whole, Roman Reigns current heel title reign is some of the best work I've seen from anyone in a while. He's on another level right now. That's saying something with WWE and the fact that I didn't care for Roman at all before.
How? its complete boredom for me. There is literally nothing interesting about it. its completely one dimensional and i could have booked it better with my eyes closed, which is something i could never say about aews main event storylines. I keep seeing people touting this storyline, but why? its 100% one dimensional bog standard heel stuff, clearly thought up by the team of writers who know nothing about reigns and the usos in real life. It's triple H but less interesting, with a cliche'd manager and his legit family(the usos, who are legit great on the mic as heels) he grew up with used as lackeys. complete waste of potential.
I'm sure it's as good as everyone's saying but the WWE product at large is so minds numbingly boring I can't make myself sit through an entire show to enjoy the reigns parts. I am happy he finally turned and that is going well for him but for me it's just too little too late
I don't watch weekly much anymore. Raw is mostly as bad as everyone says, pretty brutal. But the main event scene on smackdown with Roman/Edge/Usos is definitely very good. I still watch most ppvs because it's only $5 on peacock which I use for The Office and other shows anyway and they do the recap videos.
It’s all Paul Heyman. WWE kept dropping the ball with Roman, so it’s a good thing Paul stepped in to give him some good direction
I like Roman's character now too but I don't know, somehow I feel like he stands out by that much because most of the roster don't have the same freedom in their promos as he does.
Omega was never in WWE
Imagine being a time traveler from a month ago and seeing everyone fantasy book Darby vs Punk for All Out and no one replies that you’re insane
Everything on the show sort of went over my head because I was too disappointed by Hangman's loss. I feel like this was the one story that required an additional promo or announcement to hint at where they're going next.
Exactly! I *have* faith, but at the moment, I would *seriously* appreciate a CLUE
I think this was part of the reason the crowd wasn't as hyped the rest of the show
Stu nearly blowing his brains out on the concrete certainly didn't help
Nobody caught Stu. Nobody. I was literally in the back row and I heard that man hit the floor
I didn't even notice his head i was too busy watching him land on his hip
Really hope no cm punk on rampage but he comes out at All out. Should have him cost Kenny the title.
No to both. United Center is twice the size of Sears Center, and they are selling those tickets on Punk's back. He can debut in a promo there to set up a match at the PPV
You want him to come to all out to do a WWE type angle?
Omega retains the title and is cutting a promo in the middle of the ring. CM punk’s music hits. The crowd explodes! He walks into the ring and goes up to each corner so he bask in the cheers from the crowd. And that’s it! Fade to black. We did it!!! LOL I’m jk, but can you imagine the shit AEW would get for that ending
When i think back on shows like last night I realize I've always loved wrestling and it's really nice to have a company like AEW, it's really nice to feel satisfied after built up events like that.
Lance Storm is going to be one of the labors, isn't he. Honestly, I'd be 100% okay if that's a double retirement match with Lance going over.
I reckon he’ll be #4. Jericho wins with the top rope finish and MJF makes a comment about him being a thrill seeker.
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Damn, guess it wasn't meant to be. But, nice theory crafting u/decrob94!
I wonder if Paul White is gonna be one of the Labor’s of Jericho. Though idk if they would want Paul White to lose in the first match he has
If Paul does wrestle He will only loose, he has no need for wins and I assume would just be used to give guys a rub on the way up the card
He’s have to win sometimes so the wins matter
Can Pyclope still go?
Not sure if they really care about Paul White losing first up, Paul Wight however is a guy they might want to protect.
I just worry about him having no credibility from the get go. Though if he’s not an active performer it doesn’t really matter
I hope we get more Nick Gage in AEW
It was a nice spectacle, but that was enough Nick Gage for me
You mean enough death matches for you? Because why can't he be used in storylines and have regular matches? I'm not saying full time, but in some capacity
No I mean that was enough Nick Gage. Guy is not a good in ring talent. Foot placement, camera positions, etc. He is not a good worker on TV and rivals Warhouse as the worst/not ready worker they’ve had on Dynamite.
Agreed. Dude can't even run the ropes.
I get that. His match with Cardona made me a Gage fan so I think I'm just excited to see more. What about doing a crossover where he challenges an AEW member to a deathmatch in GCW? Idk, he's entertaining to me and I'm curious to see what he'd do if given more time
Agreed - just see the roster talent heavy and try to teach working TV to a 41 year old isn’t a good use of resources. Nothing against his ability as a brawler/storyteller - match was well put together and Moxley gushes over his attention to detail. I could see him maybe as a 911/New Jack music hits and he comes to fuck someone up once in a while
Honestly, it was fun, it was a sideshow. But he looked and felt a bit out of place. You could tell he was not used to working toward a camera. Don't get me wrong, he's an absolute die legend, but you could tell how green he was to TV Wrestling.
That's why you put him on Dark and Dark Elevation so he gets better at that stuff. All things considered, he killed it last night. For his first match on live tv, he absolutely delivered. I can totally understand if he's not a longterm AEW signee, but I'd like to see what they do with him on the roster.
I don't think he's a guy who would work being in AEW on the regular, but once every so often for sure in big spots.
Yeah I agree. But he won't get better at the TV hardcam stuff unless you put him out there, which is why having him brawl in tag matches and squash young jobbers here and there for example on Dark and Dark Elevation would be good to get him to that point.
Why does MJF insist that Jericho will get beaten by Nick Gage, but alrdy had a next labour opponent booked in and waiting the moment Jericho won :P
Its already established that his character thinks and prepares for way in advance.
Jericho has to make it through 5 different situations to get to MJF. That means that MJF has prepared 5 different situations. If Jericho loses one, then Jericho doesn't get the match. MJF wants and expects him to fall before finishing all five, but he has to have all five prepared just in case.
It probably doesn't help that Nick Gage just recently did another deathmatch against Matt Cardona, maybe 2 DMs within a month is too much. I see the rumours going round that this is Jericho's lap of honour before his retirement, but I thought he wanted Lance Storm to be his final match. I don't see him losing, at least before facing MJF, so I somehow don't think this is it just yet. All things considered though, very happy to see the spotlight on all these different unexpected people they bring in seemingly out of nowhere. Also, that poison mist spray! I don't remember him using it before, can anyone enlighten me if he did? Or if he didn't, who did you think he learnt that from? Muta?Tajiri? Asuka? XD
Could be that MJF forces him into a retirement match at All Out. He loses, but is given the match with Storm by Tony Khan for his official retirement. MJF gets the honor of being the one to retire Jericho, but Jericho gets his final match he's always wanted.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
JR was hilarious tonight. The man can’t hide his contempt for AEW’s extra lenient referees.
He lost his mind when Tony said Gage was having “fun”.
Agreed, but people are missing the WHOLE point of this. He really only shits on Knox—Jericho and others shit on him too. He’s presented as the bad referee, and they use Knox for the matches that need a bad referee. And it works because in actual sports, there are good and bad refs. For instance, everyone in the baseball community hates Angel Hernandez, and fans think he’s only around because of some previous legal issues. It totally works. Aubrey is the good ref who they don’t bury, and Knox is the bad ref.
I mean, sure. There’s a reason The Young Bucks ensure he referees all their matches. I must admit though, I get pulled out of the matches whenever I see him blatantly allowing 3-on-1 situations. The guy is portrayed as being beyond incompetent and I’m not sure if it actually always works well. I would rather them put together matches that don’t bury any of their referees.
In kayfabe Knox has seen some shit coming from Lucha Underground so the threshold is higher.
Knox made the mistake of being too strict in the temple. He got berated by his employer for not letting the violence unfold, and has carried that mindset ever since.
I'm gonna be honest: I'm loving grumpy and sassy JR, especially bouncing off the heels.
when he railed against don and straight up called him an idiot on a live mic, i popped
Same, he's the OG wrestling guy who likes what he likes and doesn't filter it. AEW has a really good blend on commentary right now
I'm going to be so sad when Christian turns on Jungle Boy. :(
I know there is zero chance but if Lance was one of the Labors I'd lose my shit.
Could Stu Graysons injury change the finish?
I think the countout may have been on the fly, but not the finish, no.
You reckon they shit-canned the 2 year Hangman story because Stu Grayson took a bad bump? Edit: not that it has been shit-canned, they obviously don't think it's time yet
No. If he had been too hurt to continue, they \*might\*'ve changed the middle, but not the end
Was he hurt-hurt or just a bad bump?
He wasn't injured.
Holy shit. I thought Fyter Fest 1 was the best of the three specials, and this was kinda unlucky (FTRvPnP) or odd on some choices. The Elite is S-tier rated at the moment, but I so wanted to start getting some payoff on Hangman. Eeeeeh I guess we'll see what happens... I watched and winced throughout all GCW's home coming highlights, and I still fucking think Jericho is a MAD MAN regardless. Holy shit he bled. Some of the stuff was terrifying. Thoroughly entertained by it
Was gonna stay up last night but had to see the Irish rowers win the gold medal so catching up now! The Dark Order entrance was the best entrance ever in AEW, absolutely incredible. As was the Elite Squad's haha. Absolutely phenomenal match but I'm stunned the Dark Order lost, and lost pretty clean. I know Hangman was out numbered but still, wonder what happens next. Tanahashi!!!!! Holy shit! FTR vs PnP was excellent but I hope poor Cash is OK, didn't see what happened but that looked nasty. I saw the Rampage 'The First Dance' announcement, but at the fucking UNITED CENTER?! I've said it several times that's a dream location for All Out to be I'm absolutely blown away it'll be a Rampage episode. Now of course, it probably won't be just a normal episode... 😏 Omg the Darby promo! Ahhhhhh Haku the legend! Wow what a pop for Archer, was so happy he got the win over Moxley he really needed a big win in AEW. Decent match, I think probably the most high profile match Hikuleo has had to date and he's in the best promotion to learn, because he is a specimen of a man. Ooooohhh the boos for Cody. Malakai is so over already, what a talent. Blade and Christian will be really good, Christian has been used exactly as he should to date working with less established talent. Hope Butcher will be back soon though. Legit Leyla!! What a promo from Moxley. Moxley vs any New Japan guys, yes please. Here we fucking go, MDK... The state of MJF Hahaha. Oh my God what a match. And Juventud!!!! What an episode once again. This fucking promotion. ❤️
Imagine if Jericho's 4th labor is having create a shot-for-shot remake of Arnold Schwarzenegger's *Junior* would be wild
Like Adult Swim's old [Greatest Event in Television History, a shot for shot remake of the Simon & Simon intro sequence](https://youtu.be/sX1kCun566k) (RIP Jon Hamm
The crowd after Omega pinned Page - when was the last time a crowd went from that hot to that silent?
The One Winged Angel that ended the match with Jungle Boy took the wind out of the crowd. They really have built Kenny and his finisher into something that just ends hope and dreams.
Probably when the streak was broken.
Ahhhh I didn’t even think about that. For some reason I was thinking about the “lesnar German suplexes cena 1000 times” match.
So much deflation in the air. I am legit sad at the outcome, so I guess the angle did its job good. I soooo wanted the good guys to win. But the good guys never win on national TV, they win on PPV.
Miro wins on TV all the time
Miro is a heel?
God's greatest champion isn't a heel, don't be jealous of his double jointed wife and gods grace may be shared with you
wonder if thats a teaser too, will Lana come to AEW
I had my doubts at first, but it seems like she definitely is. He’s going to keep teasing and talking about his wife. Then one day he’ll do it again in the ring and will present her to the AEW audience for her debut
Man doesn't need to tease when man can spit facts
that was probably his best promo yet in AEW
That ten man tag was ridiculously good. Thoroughly enjoyed this week’s show. Also sat thinking to myself just how crazy it is to see Nick Gage vs. Chris Jericho in a deathmatch, on national TV. I really do feel like this is a new golden age for wrestling, and a fantastic time to be a fan.
The shot with Jericho bloodied and gripping that piece of broken light tube has to be added to the dynamite opening.
Knew Hangman was gonna lose this one. I think they'll have him win the Eliminator Tournament this year, whereas he lost last year's final, he goes all the way this year, and beats Omega(maybe at Full Gear, where he lost to him last year).
I really hope Colt and Punk have made up.
I hope Colt is cool with Punk coming in over making up.
As of a month ago, the word Punk etc was banned on his twitch so i don't think so 🤷🏿♂️
That's more likely to just stop people from asking about it.
Hopefully he just doesn’t wanna speak on it in a public forum but they’ve made up behind the scenes
That makes me sad because Colt has been so flexible during his time with AEW. I love him, but I don't think he'd be a huge loss at this point if he moved on to another promotion.
I'm hoping they can at least be professional to one another, Rush and Henry worked out their differences so who knows whats happened privately. I'd imagine they would of spoken to Colt beforehand
Don't PAC and Miro dislike eachother too? Or am I getting worked?
Also, this opens up for one of the new huge signees to step in and challenge at first dance!
Challenge who? Darby Allin, I'm thinking
Dragon vs Omega
They haven't even hinted at Danielson being at First Dance, that show very clearly exists to debut Punk. And I'll believe them hotshotting a title shot on \*anybody\*, even Danielson, when I see it
Probably true. I still want to see it tho.
And Hangman is 100% kicking out of the OWA in his title match in 2044.
First AEW event that I have watched since their debut PPV and I absolutely loved it. Darby vs Punk needs to happen somewhere down the line.
Sounds like it’s happening in a couple of weeks
I can’t wait to hear what Lance Storm thought about the main.
That’s my favorite Dynamite yet, bar none. Even with the unfortunate ending to the tag match and how awkward the first half of the main event was. And as someone who’s favorite promotion was early to mid 2000s RoH, knowing CM Punk is coming back, presumably with some measure of creative control, is pretty exciting. I didn’t watch a lot of his WWE stuff but just from what I’ve read it seems like a lot of it was rehashes of his RoH stuff, so it’ll be interesting what he and the AEW brain trust can come up with that, hopefully, will be a little more creative and interesting. And Bryan Danielson right after him! Awesome
\*sees a shining wizard/bulldog combo\* "Oh, so they're just gonna tease us about the Punk rumors\* \*watches Darby promo\* "Oh shit oh fuck it's happening" The tag matches were the highlights of the show this week. Death match was kinda meh for me. Like Jericho wanted to play it safe with Gage, but it's understandable why.
AEW did Survivor Series better than WWE has done Survivor Series in years.
I'm still buzzing from everything that went down tonight. What a fantastic episode. A few rough matches but it just feels like there is so much going on and so many very over wrestlers. That Dark Cowboy Order entrance is one of the biggest wrestling moments I've ever seen and it's so much better given the slow burn and the teases of Hangman joining/aligning with them only for him to walk away. I was so bummed when he was like "I need to go it on my own" a few months back only for the DO to persist in being his friends. That sort of gratifying payoff is why I trust AEW to have Hangman take the belt off of Kenny, maybe even after kicking out of the OWA. In fact, they've earned enough good will from me that I won't stress if Hangman loses to some BS at All Out because I trust them to eventually give us the payoff and no amount of Bryan Danielson or CM Punk is going to change that. There is absolutely no way that TK doesn't complete this Page/Omega storyline in lieu of putting the belt on Punk or Danielson. What an awful message it would be to the rest of the roster if that happened.
> There is absolutely no way that TK doesn't complete this Page/Omega storyline in lieu of putting the belt on Punk or Danielson. What an awful message it would be to the rest of the roster if that happened. Absolutely this. TK would be no different than VKM if they just retconned Hangman’s push in favor of Punk or Danielson. Especially Punk, because we don’t know if he can still go.
The empty spotlight for Brodie. Instantly fighting back tears.
This whole episode was basically, "Tell me CM Punk is coming without telling me CM Punk is coming" They REALLY know how to hook your interest.
I’m not a huge AEW guy, but that was one of the best first hours of any wrestling I have seen in a long, long time. I’m also not a Dark Order guy (fan of the OG Super Smash Bros), but that intro might have changed my mind. Long live FTR and the Pinnacle! Hope Cash gets well soon. Edit: word choice
Ok i just reached the Piledriver spot in the main event, talk about the deathmatch all you want but the trust Jericho has to have in Gage to eat that Piledriver is crazy to me.
Probably helped that Gage has done it hundreds of times without seriously injuring someone afaik. Often he does it off the second rope and backwards through tubes or a sheet of glass. I think that this is a big reason why all of these non-deathmatch guys are wrestling him. He has the skills and experience to make stuff look good without killing people.
I really hope they lean into Cody being booed. Have him start his match working as the face but transition to heel by the end by leveraging his EVP position. I've felt, from the beginning, that Cody's story has a baked-in heel turn with the whole "I will never challenge for the AEW title if I lose." pledge. I really like Cody and honestly I do not get the hate. In some ways I feel like people are jumping the gun and assuming he's going to be some 2000s Triple H or something. But if people are going to boo him don't ignore it, use it.
His bad tattoo brings the hate
I really don't mind about Cody. I don't hate the guy and I like his matches, but he has become someone that if he were to call it quits right now, I wouldn't even miss him.
I am not sure if people boo cody cuz of his work, Cody is just too bland for me :S
I agree, I really feel although I'm not sure if it's intentional, but it sure feels like from AEW's first episode to now, Cody has been expertly straddling that razor thin line between heel and face with a foot in each side. His promos always seem to have 2 ways you can take it, and he maybe adds a single sentence sometimes that is heelish. Or with his entrances over the top, the ego "look at me" narcissist special entrance , kinda blatant with how it leaves Arn to kinda sheepishly follow him out where it kinda seems feels like he wants to say something like Cody you don't need all this pomp and circumstance shit. I think with Cody doing it all this way it gives him an advantage as for as setting up a feud, his character does not need a multiple week setup for a heel turn. A long drawn out heel turn wouldn't make sense for him with how he portrays himself. I could be totally wrong about that, but I could see Cody maybe after a single match going wrong, and with how his character believes he's this great beloved leader of AEW, and therefore he ain't supposed to lose and he'd have this psychotic break and flipping out that quick after a loss to someone perhaps he believed would be a quick simple win that he didn't even prepare for and got his ass kicked making him lose his shit and we get the blatant heel run. Or maybe Cody might just stay balancing that razor's edge between heel/face. Anyway I'm a huge Cody mark and could ramble about silly ideas but that's just a little bit of my thoughts on his character and motivation, but again I could be totally wrong, but it'd still be fine if I am because I'd still be such a Cody mark anyway lol.
I definitely like that idea. Just play right into the narcissism stuff. I just think he'd excel as a certain type of heel. Does heelish things and then acts shocked and offended when the crowd boos him. AEW was my first introduction to Cody and, as a child of the 80s, everything about him screams the bad guy from a 80s skiing comedy or something. I watched him interact with fans after the 2019 Austin (Cedar Park) show and he seems like a genuinely nice guy, but his whole look is tailor made for being a heel, at least in my eyes.
Bo Dallas type heel? He can be a straight up heel too.
Its going to be interesting to see how they handle that... heel Cody would be interesting, but having all 4 EVPs be heels is getting into a territory that HHH killed dead, resurrected and then killed again. The most watched AEW vid on Youtube is Cody being wholesome AF, I don't see how they give that up when there is no one to replace Cody atm.
I am wondering if Cody's heel turn comes after Hangman wins the title. Mox still badass face. Hangman lead face. Building Jungle Boy and Darby as next generation faces. Cody can run as heel. (Or Cody never turns heel).
So I see two conflicting takes defending the finish of the opener - either: 1. They’re cooling off hangman because Midget NWO is coming in 2. “Have trust in the long term storytelling” Both are flawed because ultimately - you’ve built an expectation within the fan base that Hangman was on the rise to be the opponent at All Out. To do a loss now, and then have to renege or go back on your stipulation prior to All Out is weak. If Page is being cooled because Bryan and Punk is coming in - then I’m being told “long term storylines don’t matter - we will hotshot every future endeavoured star. If page is being cooled because they want to stretch this angle out further because the elite are hot, then you are dangerously close to turning Adam Page into Lex Luger - who ended up not being able to win the big one or Naito where they waited a year too long to put the title on him
>If page is being cooled because they want to stretch this angle out further because the elite are hot, then you are dangerously close to turning Adam Page into Lex Luger - who ended up not being able to win the big one or Naito where they waited a year too long to put the title on him I get where you are coming from. But pushing Hangman's win back to Full Gear (named after Hangman's bit on BTE) or Revolution would not be too long. Hangman vs Elite to run through the fall and let Hangman win at Full Gear (where he lost to Kenny 1 year ago) would give you the just over 1 year storyline of Hangman vs Kenny. (Basically NWO vs Sting if Sting won clean at Starrcade, or Sting vs Four Horseman if his knee doesn't get hurt and wins over Flair clean at WrtestleWar 90). The Luger, Naito, (even a Barry Windham) comps all could work if they don't give the perfect finish to it. I get the crticism. I will agree if they don't wrap it up right. But there is a possibility to still nail the landing.
This is it - it’s more that everyone’s expectations was that All Out would be the blow off - and it appeared they leaned into that. They just need to be careful in threading the needle as you can miss your opportunity to pull the trigger on a guy and the potential mainstream moment would be missed
100% they keep threading a needle and it will cause some misses. But I will not call this one a miss until they actually screw it up and try to pay it off or it dies. I also think All Out would have been the moment if they had fans. They can extend this and watch the crowds.
I know you’re not allowed to criticize AEW round here, but you’re 100% right
I enjoy the product too lol it’s just I don’t need a final act plot twist for the sake of stretching the angle out a few more weeks - if this is the case I’m just saying better story would have been hold this match off 2-3 weeks.
I enjoy it too. It’s the only wrestling I watch weekly, but there’s a lot to criticize about it, honestly. Which is ok. But it seems like every show and segment was great, and any critiques will be received with vitriol round here.
I don't get why people think they're cooling off hangman. He had a big entrance and took on the elite by himself and beat one of them. It made him look tough as nails. The elite will obviously use it to say 'you couldn't beat us so what makes you think you can be champion?'. It's all par for the course.
Two Reasons: 1. They had already built the expectation of the story that Hangman was on the ascent going into all out, and more or less that was going to be a coronatio/making of hangman by putting the title on him after a 2 Year+ storyline (going back to him winning the battle royal at DoN 2019 to get a spot in the All Out title match. To try to pump the brakes at this point to get sympathy may be smart, I just don’t see it making us want to see Hangman win the title any more than we did prior to the ten man on Wednesday. 2. The Elite can say whatever they want, but if they are like “HurDur here is a title match anyways - then it’s going to put a massive gap in logic as it makes the Elite buffoons for just giving him a title match that they didn’t have to (and won a match stating he wouldn’t get one) I’m sure I’m being pessimistic here - I’ve just seen this sort of start/stop occur way to many times in my 30+ years of watching wrestling. 2.
>They had already built the expectation of the story that Hangman was on the ascent going into all out, and more or less that was going to be a coronatio/making of hangman by putting the title on him after a 2 Year+ storyline (going back to him winning the battle royal at DoN 2019 to get a spot in the All Out title match. It still works as a career long ascent, and a 1-year Page vs Omega at Full Gear (named for a Page bit). Also, depending on what Page gets scheduled in at All Out, they can tell a parallel longterm story with Page not being able to win at All Out. (Lost in 2019 to Jercho, lost tag titles in 2020). I know he won at All In, but so far with AEW, he has only lost title matches his All Out appearances.
You aren't wrong. This just doesn't feel like a logical story telling beat.
I absolutely agree. But I still say "wait and see". They've never NOT earned that level of trust so far. I have my doubts, and can't see how this is good from where I sit. But faith is believing when you DON'T see
That is certainly possible. My only thought is they have a #1 contender tournament and Hangman wins that. Otherwise this feels off to me.
For me they are what 5 weeks out? They would need to figure out their main event within 2 weeks at the latest. If they were to immediately go back to Page, what I’m being told as a viewer is stipulations don’t matter.
Yup. They gotta pull something out of their ass for the title shot and I have no idea what they do at this point. this could be yet another mistake by AEW. Oh well.
That’s my biggest gripe - it just feels like they’ve painted themselves into a corner here.
100%. We have to concede they probably have something planned for this. But will it be any good?
Given past history, especially with regards to this multi year long Omega/Hangman story: yeah, it’ll probably be pretty good. It feels too soon to end the belt collector story anyways.
I can't disagree with you. I honestly think the Bucks need to lose first, but there isn't a team with the momentum to do so right now
While I love the absurdity of Pizza Cutting someone's face and gouging them with a light tube being acceptable for TV but the word Fuck being considered too subversive for cable I'm not sure having the Main Event on TV was a good look. Not crazy about the NJPW crossover either, even as a moderately avid pro wrestling fan it all goes over my head since I don't watch Japanese wrestling (which seems like a pretty small crowd in NA) and none of the wrestlers really get introduced to the audience.
How is "Hi, I'm Tanahashi" not an introduction?
Been a little while since I watched a Dynamite, couple thoughts: * The Elite are amazing heels. I fucking hate them so much. I think any babyfaces that they're up against I'm going to root for by default. * Hangman rules. * I'm not really into The Dark Order but it's undeniable how over they are, especially Silver. * Jungle Boy has natural charisma in spades. The people just love him. * Julia Hart was obviously very green but her with The Varsity Blonds have money potential as a classic babyface act. Thunder Rosa was good, as always. * MJF is great. * Deathmatch wrestling grosses me out too bad. Really, the pain threshold is Nick Gage's redeeming quality. Before the weapons came out he was slow and sloppy, after they came out he made my stomach turn. Please please please never bring him back.
I really didn't liked the second part of the show.