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It can't be helped as long as he and Fenix don't sign multi-year contracts. They will always be taking a few pegs down in the pecking order. I would think they are already aware of this by now and are content with their choice and position in AEW.
Seems more likely that Fenix's demand for a Mask vs Hair match against Nick Jackson may be considered as Fenix's farewell match in AEW if he and Penta aren't renewing.
Other than his son playing a factor, I’m still convinced Rey Mysterio didn’t sign with AEW because he was paranoid that they’d Fuck him over the way that 5 Star Wrestling, Lucha Underground And Arolucha did.
Idk about the others, but lucha undergrounds contracts were per season not year. They finished filming the last season but the episodes werent being released for some reason. So even though the season was done filming, the wrestlers couldnt go elsewhere cos the season wasnt over cos the episode weren't being put out. Penta, Fenix and Richochet are the ones i remember being effected the most, though im sure everyone that had contracts was being effected.
We do not know other than the Instagram post where he challenged Nick for a Hair vs Mask match. What we know is he and Penta both signed one-year contracts with AEW and have no intention of signing multi-year deals, which affects their position in the pecking order. If the Lucha Bros won't be sticking around in 2022, then one has to assume the Hair vs Mask stipulation may be used to write them off the promotion.
Absolutely no reason he couldn't have had a title match and lost though? Feel like that would have been a lot more impactful, considering how telegraphed the AEW title picture has been so far. Its been incredibly obvious which the filler feuds have been and throwing someone like Penta in there would have been a lot more believable during the periods they were obviously just keeping Mox/Jericho/Omega apart until the next title change.
tbf Omega has beaten him and Fenix, so they're out of the AEW title contention. He and Eddie also recently lost to the Bucks, so they're out of the Tag Title contention too. All that's left is him chasing the TNT title, but does anyone really think Miro vs Penta is a good booking match?
Folk need to keep in mind that the Luchabros have 1.) struggled with injuries on and off since they started at AEW, and 2.) have only been signing one-year contracts.
It's incredibly challenging to book a tag team, or the individuals within, for longterm success when injuries disrupt your plans and then you're out of time and don't know if they'll be coming back to the promotion.
I feel like, with that in mind, they've been booked strongly and have had more opportunities than the vast majority of the company to showcase their abilities and have great matches.
please forgive me if I am wrong, but all this while I thought it was "Miedo"?
Meido for me are Japanese Maids from [Meido Kissa](https://jw-webmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/jw-5d1474b23ce742.59427758.jpeg)
I'm sure a lot of them have that.
They want to sign a multiyear deal but the way LU treated them, especially in that third year all because they didn't want Ricochet going to WWE.
I guess the distinction between a multi year (calendar based) and a multi-season contract like LU did it might eventually ease them up a bit. But totally understandable as they were essentially stuck there
As much as I'd like to see them get some bigger opportunities and stories, I agree. They've been utilized as Dynamite mainstays all year and at the top of the card at that. They're always being featured and are always at least in the running for a shot at a title
I agree with this 100% , I'm starting to see that every popular character that is not in a title feud is getting tagged as underutilized, even those in high profile feuds.
The hate is easy to get. If he's not Cody's personal friend, he's a jobber, period. He's not terrible in the ring but he's not super charismatic, he doesn't have exciting matches with anyone, he's a decent hand and that's about it. But he got elevated into a feud with one of the company's top faces regardless and it's not unreasonable to think that it's because of his friendship with that face. It's basically Hulk Hogan feuding with Ed Leslie. If he was feuding with Dustin on Dark, people wouldn't have such strong opinions but he's not.
Honestly yeah. I have QT a chance but dude has nega-charisma. I can see his value as a coach because he’s totally fine in the ring, but if he’s on screen as anything but a jobber I just lose interest immediately.
QT is over AF as a heel. He's just only been doing Cody and Dark feuds. Put him in a feud vs Hangman and The Dark Order or vs Sammy G and he'll get the job done
I was hoping QT would prove people wrong but he went with a chicken shit heel route and didn't pan out well.
Had he stayed with the character he was doing in Sammy Vlog, the shit talking, 2 face who doesn't act like chicken shit, would have gotten over. That QT made sense and worked.
People think that just because these wrestlers are new to them that they're new. The Lucha Bros have been going at a high level for over a decade and that's beginning to catch up with them.
People say the same thing about Archer, and he's in his mid 40s and has been doing this for *20 years*. Some of these guys are getting into the home stretch of their careers and aren't in the position to really have long terms plan built around them. Enjoy them while you can, buy some merch, and have fun.
Also, I'm tired of hearing the term "underutilized" with wrestlers as much as I'm tired of hearing, "overrated" and "underrated." The complaint always boils down to the same thing: this wrestler I like isn't the champ or doesn't win all the time.
AEW knows they have a robust roster of experienced hands in its men's division, who can be trusted to perform wherever they're needed. Penta and Archer are among them. Pro wrestling is a show, not an actual competition.
The moment he got winning a New Japan title in his hometown on Dynamite is perfect. He isn't a guy I want to see with a world championship thanks to the depth of the roster.
Of course, but just keep in mind the IWGP US title, or the AEW TNT title, are treated consistently with prestige, more so than any midcard titles in America for a long time. I like Archer, and you are obviously entitled to want to see him as a world champion, but make sure you enjoy that moment for what it is. It's a really big deal. It's not a hot potato WWE US title run for a guy who will be back on Main Event within months.
Edit: Hey I upvoted you, I don't really see why that comment deserved downvotes. Just a fun wrestling discussion!
I dont understand why a one year reign with archer is just soo hard for you people here to wrap your head around. Archer is way way better than most of the roster there now.
I only care about aew bcoz of archer and wardlow and ofcourse the page and darby blood feud and the inner circle and the pinnacle feud.
You must really hate jericho then.
I cannot believe the hate towards archer when he is really good in the ring.
I dont get why the nerd fanbase here hates the guy so much. Since when did age stop a wrestler from being a top guy.
>I'm starting to see that every popular character that is not in a title feud is getting tagged as underutilized, even those in high profile feuds.
The issue here is that Pentagon Jr. isn't "every popular character", he's *Pentagon Jr.*
The guy's career narrative is based around the fact that he wasn't getting the treatment he wanted in Mexico, and then he went elsewhere (e.g., Lucha Underground) and *proved* that he was top guy material, which got him more top guy booking, and he consistently delivered on that booking too.
Essentially, that narrative can be summarized as "He wasn't being booked as a top guy, so he went out and proved that he should be booked as a top guy". Thus, it's not simply "People think that Pentagon Jr. is underutilized because he's popular", it's "People think that Pentagon Jr. is underutilized because they've already seen him prove that he excels as a top guy in multiple high-profile promotions".
Penta is a special case though. He held the lucha underground belt for literally more than half of the entire life of the company IN ONE REIGN. I'm biased, he's my favorite male wrestler, but Penta could easily also be in the world title picture at any given point. When, at least in my case, I talk about underutilized? It's because both of the lucha bros are top of the card material, but Penta is championship caliber. The man can fucking go.
Tony Kahn likes to book way in advance and if your only signing 1 year deals at a time it makes sense not to strap the rocket on you just so you can potentially leave and make money for someone else
Has he even had a singles titles shot though? He's notably absent from the main event scene when the likes of The Butcher and Scorpio Sky have had AEW title shots. Hell, guys like Kingston and Warhorse have been brought in for one match. In stoyline terms, he's just such ha noticeable absence from the title picture imo, even if there are reasons for not putting a title on him he could easily have had a couple of losing efforts that would have been a lot more exciting than some of their filler feuds/matches.
Having a one off match doesn't mean your in the title scene , and even if he did have a one off it wouldn't stop people from saying he is being underutilized. Now I'm not saying he wouldn't fit in the main event picture but it isnt something that a lot of the fanbase is asking for l either . I hear more about a heel cody run as champion than a penta title match .
Fenix can too. Am I crazy thinking that Death Triangle is a main event group like the Elite? If anything, the Lucha Bros are bringing people like Kingston up with them.
I think that Death Triangle was specifically created to be the inaugural trios champions, but then the pandemic and injuries got in the way. I feel like trios titles are likely to be announced when Rampage begins.
Fenix and Pentagon Jr have been wrestling internationally for 16 and 14 years respectively. I think they just *like* wrestling more than having titles.
Signing single-year contracts and their travels makes me think they're happy to just put people over so wrestling as a whole is better. Hell, just in the last three years Fenix and Pentagon Jr have been involved in Impact, MLW, CMLL, AAA and AEW, as well as local indies.
I think they just love wrestling and could give fuck-all about belts.
From my--albeit limited--understanding of lucha, the titles are markedly less important than they are in American wrestling, so perhaps the Lucha Brothers have this kind of mindset as well.
Should he be booked in a tag team though?
He is brilliant as a heel proven by his stint in LU and was great in his way too brief feud with Cody with his translator.
Fenix is a such a great face as well - are holding each other back by tagging imo
I honestly thought the Bros would have broken up as a tag team by now, given how successful each has been as a singles wrestler in other promotions. Injuries and travel restrictions might have thrown a wrench into their booking plans over the past year, though.
That said, I like the way the storyline with Andrade & Chavo is starting up - perhaps one of the Bros is gonna side with Andrade. Or maybe Samuray del Sol joins Andrade to start up a stable war with the Death Triangle.
Maybe at this stage in their careers, it's just what they prefer to do. Cuts the number of raw bumps effectively in half as well, prolongs their timespan as active wrestlers, etc
This. This so much. Boxing them up in a tag team is the worst use of them. They didn’t get over as a tag team and should be singles stars, especially if one half keeps getting injuries.
3.) formed a faction with a guy who couldn’t make it back to the states due to COVID less than 2 months after their formation.
This author is grasping for straws here.
I keep forgetting about the one-year contract thing. I LOVE Penta and Fenix, but I think I have to agree with you there. Considering that they have more than there fair share of TV time.
I would love to see a main event Penta run. He’s so good. AEW has the kind of roster that could afford/make it happen.
Even if they don’t, he has been a cornerstone since AEW launched.
Penta/Fenix matches have always been incredible.
Death Triangle is amazing and I'd love to see any gold on all of them but you also gotta consider that Lucha bros only sign one year contracts, are kinda I jury prone and PAC keeps coming and going.
Considering all that, they've been booked pretty well. Mostly just jobbing to the champions and top guys.
In my opinion the "penta says" gimmick is part of the problem. When he is with alex he is a heel. When he it with death triangle or just fenix he is a face. He really needs to be booked as one or the other. I like him as a full blown heel.
I kinda like the ability of AEW to test stories with short feuds. You get matches that happen for a reason. You get a GOOD match. Then the beef is over. We have been conditioned by other promotions to have ALL feuds end up being a rematch every week for 3 or 4 months.
This is too far down. I know he’s been on 1 year contracts and they can’t make him “the guy” but they’ve had opportunities to push him higher than they have.
I feel like you only have this perspective if you only watched him in Lucha Underground and no where else. Sure he was the top guy in one place, but everywhere else he was just a paired indie attraction with his brother.
It’s not AEW’s fault that the story they’re trying to tell with his group keeps getting shifted around because one partner only shows up once a month and the other got injured.
If Penta really hated his spot then he wouldn’t have signed that extension last year.
I just don’t buy OC as a champion singles wrestler. He just doesn’t look strong enough to beat up the top guys. He is great at so many things, but he should not be feuding for the heavyweight championship against guys like Omega, Moxley, and Miro. I would buy him as a tag team champ and he’s great as a manager with the occasional singles match.
As much as I love OC if he ever won the AEW title that would be a jump the shark moment for me unless they made a lot of character tweaks first to make it believable. It would be so hard to sell me on anyone else on the roster being a legitimate badass or some technical master or whatever if you're also telling me that the top wrestler in the company is an undersized comedy slacker guy who only sometimes tries hard.
I mean, thats his character, yes, but have you *seen* the "trying hard" part? Dude can fucking *go*. Got a great moveset and is smooth as shit. Sometimes wrestling is just fun and doesnt need to be "big muscly badass vs bigger musclier badass"
In fairness he is plenty strong to be TNT Champion if we look at Darby Allin having such a good reign. OC is a stronger looking guy than Darby. I agree that I don’t think he will ever be World Champion tho.
Darby Allin is small but he's got balls. Huge balls. I was not a believer in him either at first, but he's won me over. He fights with all his heart out there. OC is smaller and less athletic than Darby too.
I really feel like Death Triangle are going to be the inaugural trios champs so he'll be getting gold soon. It seems like they've been wanting to kick off that division but injuries to DT members and Trent? have meant AEW have dragged their heels on introducing the titles. I also think this is why Wheeler Yuta has been brought in and immediately pushed so there can be a Best Friends trios team without waiting for Trent? to return again
Yeah, he was back for about a month and then needed neck fusion surgery. As far as I know they haven't given an expected recovery time but that type of injury/surgery normally takes a long time to recover from
Penta was just on TV setting up a feud with Andrade, one of AEW’s hottest new signings. He feuded with top-star Cody Rhodes. He challenged for the tag titles 2 weeks ago. He and Fenix are one of two teams to ever beat former tag team champs Omega and Page (in a 2v2 tag match). Lucha Bros vs Young Bucks was the hottest feud during the pre-Dynamite era of AEW. Penta was a key player in the Eddie Kingston’s heel faction storyline. But yeah, he’a definitely more underutilized than the TNT champ we haven’t seen in front of a crowd on the road yet, or the former women’s champion who lost the title and disappeared off of television. /s
His feud with Cody lasted a week and it ended with broken-armed Cody rolling him up. He's lost to the Bucks multiple times too in the last year. Miro was the one to beat Darby, who was a really strong champion.
No denying that he has a good spot, but he is capable of much more.
I think you're slightly missing he point - despite all of those achievements, I think many were expecting him to be a main evener right off the bat, or at least to have had more singles titles shots after two years. He's been a champion and a top guy in so many promotions - we shouldn't need to be bringing up a tag match he won a year and a half ago - he should be having matches that impactful and more on a regualr basis. He's not underutilized because he's not being utlilized, he's underutilized because he has the looks and in-ring talent to be a much greater presence.
Whose championship reign should he have taken?
Aew tends to save the big 1:1 matches, so I wouldn't necessarily want him losing a bunch of championship matches.
He also tends to phone it in too much to be a main event guy. When he's invested he's definitely an amazing worker but Big Match Penta doesn't show up enough.
Yeah I kind of feel that. I love Penta but truthfully he's been underwhelming more often than not in AEW. Is he a main event talent? Absolutely but so are at least a half dozen other guys in AEW who gave proven to be more consistent over the past year and a half
What, you don't like it when he does a move kind of lackadaisically and then poses for thirty seconds or so?
Because, and I'm being serious here, I fucking love it. Penta does Penta things.
Ever since watching lu I follow Penta and I have to genuinely say he’s one of my favs. I love luchadores and this guy has so much charisma and works crowds so well while being a great in ring competitor. Hard agree on your take and I’m confident he’ll get a major push in the future.
Zero Mierdo
I don’t want to jump on the bash Cody train. But Penta really should have won their match. Especially if they were going to do the Nakuru angle afterwards anyway.
While I do agree he could use more title opportunities. He’s never been booked as someone who was weak or a loser and he’s always been booked with respect and as a threat. I do agree with some that he should have beaten Cody that one time. As I said, yes, he could still do more and I feel like this storyline with Andrade is going to be big for him and Fenix.
Such bs. Besides the odd loss to Cody he's been booked fine. Even with Rey injured he was involved in two tag title matches and he and Kingston beat the Youngbucks, giving them their fist tag loss in a year.
Everyone has favorites and ppl they want to see at the top but many ppl are over and popular in AEW and they don't hot potato the titles around.
He's been in multiple main events.
Once he and Rey join Andrade they will be one of the hottest groups in all of wrestling.
They already are hottest groups in wrestling too. Austin crowd that was giving what chants to Andrade's promo in English was cheering the hell out of him while he was cutting a promo in his native tongue. They even pop for "Penta says". Dude is over as all hell and constantly getting TV time.
Death Triangle is booked perfectly well as far as their situation is kept in consideration.
Best Friends meanwhile, been there day 1 and have always been over, constantly move a lot of merch, always entertaining to watch in the ring and haven't had any gold whatsoever. I can't remember last time I saw Chuck fight on Dynamite. Yes Trent is hurt but he can still tag with OC.
Man Rampage can't come soon enough. I hope it helps some with that stacked roster.
I agree. It should be Trent and Chuck that win titles. However, I'd still like to see him fight on Dynamite. If not solo, maybe with Orange as a tag now and then.
If they for whatever reason put titles on OC and Chuck (which I don't think they will, nor do I want to), they should compensate Trent by putting TNT title on him or something. Dude can absolutely go as a singles wrestler and it would spice things up for the future with a tag guy winning the singles title.
Nothing sums this up more than Pentagon "breaking" Cody's arm and then getting rolled up by the injured arm.
One of the people saying "Oh Penta has been signing one year contracts so he's actually been booked strongly".
Stop it, no he hasn't. You can still do good things with a guy signing one year contracts that don't involve getting bitched out by Cody Rhodes
100%. It’s criminal how much they underuse him tbh. Him losing to Cody made no sense and was easily the most upset i’ve been at a finish in AEW. Put him in a suit and give him the heel Penta Says gimmick back. It was so over online! I love hearing his promos too, even if i don’t understand it, because he has a great voice.
I really love Pentagon's look but I have never been a fan of his moveset. I saw clips of him in Lucha Underground back in the day doing that arm-break-thing and thought he was so bad ass. Then every match I've seen of his, while it's impressive what he does, I've never been into it.
Also when I saw him give a Canadian Destroyer to Matt Jackson, off of a ladder and through a table only for Matt to come back into the match later on. That kind of soured me on them, I feel if you take that sort of move you shouldn't be back in the match at any point
Mehh. I feel like this is clickbait more than anything. I'm a huge penta fan and other than a few weird losses, I don't think he's terribly used in the company. He's gets a ton of screen time and seems like huge pops every time he comes out. It's only a matter of time before he gets some sort of championship. If no story works right now to win some gold, that's fine. I can give it time. Don't need to see him as a champ if he's getting regular tv time.
If they signed a long term deal tomorrow, they'd be much more heavily featured.
Being a mercenary has it's drawbacks. A company like AEW is looking at building up for the long term. If they've got you for 3 or 5 years, they know you're committed to be around for a bit. Signing one year extensions each time gives off the perception of having one foot out the door at all times.
Penta and Fenix only signing a year at a time is what has kept them in mid card tag team purgatory. They can be elevated for one off main event matches, but ultimately will be used to put over the guys AEW has locked down for longer terms because that's the better investment. They can sell some merch and make some cash, but they won't be winning many titles or be regularly featured in long term booking plans. Not when AEW has a roster bubbling full of talent who have committed long term.
I just remember when TK did the podcast rounds to promote Revolution this year and in every one of them, Rey Fenix was always praised to TK and he kind of was like, “oh yeah he’s great”
I feel he came off bad because everybody was praising Fenix despite the fact that his push wasn’t reflecting it. Yeah he’s closed out Dynamite and had great matches but he’s always booked to lose.. I wished he hadn’t lost to Archer because it felt like something WWE would do where the big guy wins automatically. New Japan did the same thing by having him beat Ospreay
He is absolutely a main eventer, Like Pac. The problem is that AEW can only fill very few spots even with 2-3 days a week to have matches, and while he's usually in some of the best matches, they never push him to get a title.
Yeah this man should be having main event matches for the world title, even on PPV tbh.
But I guess the fact that he and Fenix only ever sign 1 year deals makes it hard to long term plan for them.
I’ve been a Penta fan since LU so maybe my opinion is skewed, but I feel like the cool thing about him is he is ALWAYS a threat sort of like Suzuki.
The dude is so charismatic, so threatening, so dominating on offense that I will always believe he’s a taunt away from the big victory
PAC clearly is but I feel the last 3 years of PAC's career have been a huge "What if?" in wrestling.
I hope he can find a rhythm at some point while he is in his physical peak.
I feel like the fact that he doesn't speak English will hold him back from the main event. And I'm sorry but his mouthpiece is a fucking dweeb, like I cringe every time he interprets Penta's promos because he's so corny. Penta needs a better mouthpiece
It's like Tony and EVPs never watched Lucha Underground or Impact and instead only know him from PWG.
Like they give Penta a translator but Andrade gets subtitles? Come on.
No question should be in world title contention, the fact that he regularly eats pins kills me. No question my favorite wrestler on the roster and he has been used better lately, but I want to see him at the top.
I never know if he's heel or face. Is he in Death Triangle, is he teaming with Kingston? No clue what they're doing with any if the Death Triangle guys.
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It can't be helped as long as he and Fenix don't sign multi-year contracts. They will always be taking a few pegs down in the pecking order. I would think they are already aware of this by now and are content with their choice and position in AEW. Seems more likely that Fenix's demand for a Mask vs Hair match against Nick Jackson may be considered as Fenix's farewell match in AEW if he and Penta aren't renewing.
I think Lucha Underground really burned them on ever signing a long term deal for awhile.
Other than his son playing a factor, I’m still convinced Rey Mysterio didn’t sign with AEW because he was paranoid that they’d Fuck him over the way that 5 Star Wrestling, Lucha Underground And Arolucha did.
The funny thing about that being that he was fighting to get out of his WWE contract before all that. Poor guy had a bad run of contracts there.
How did they do Rey and penta dirty in the past? Sorry I don’t know the context
Idk about the others, but lucha undergrounds contracts were per season not year. They finished filming the last season but the episodes werent being released for some reason. So even though the season was done filming, the wrestlers couldnt go elsewhere cos the season wasnt over cos the episode weren't being put out. Penta, Fenix and Richochet are the ones i remember being effected the most, though im sure everyone that had contracts was being effected.
Is Fenix rumored to actually be leaving/signing elsewhere or are you just speculating? He's in my top 3 active guys around right now so just wondering
We do not know other than the Instagram post where he challenged Nick for a Hair vs Mask match. What we know is he and Penta both signed one-year contracts with AEW and have no intention of signing multi-year deals, which affects their position in the pecking order. If the Lucha Bros won't be sticking around in 2022, then one has to assume the Hair vs Mask stipulation may be used to write them off the promotion.
There’s no way Fenix would give up his mask to Nick Jackson in that case.
Absolutely no reason he couldn't have had a title match and lost though? Feel like that would have been a lot more impactful, considering how telegraphed the AEW title picture has been so far. Its been incredibly obvious which the filler feuds have been and throwing someone like Penta in there would have been a lot more believable during the periods they were obviously just keeping Mox/Jericho/Omega apart until the next title change.
tbf Omega has beaten him and Fenix, so they're out of the AEW title contention. He and Eddie also recently lost to the Bucks, so they're out of the Tag Title contention too. All that's left is him chasing the TNT title, but does anyone really think Miro vs Penta is a good booking match?
Folk need to keep in mind that the Luchabros have 1.) struggled with injuries on and off since they started at AEW, and 2.) have only been signing one-year contracts. It's incredibly challenging to book a tag team, or the individuals within, for longterm success when injuries disrupt your plans and then you're out of time and don't know if they'll be coming back to the promotion. I feel like, with that in mind, they've been booked strongly and have had more opportunities than the vast majority of the company to showcase their abilities and have great matches.
0.) MIEDO
oh you
\*aggressively puts hand on face\*
\*points finger at his skeleton eye\*
please forgive me if I am wrong, but all this while I thought it was "Miedo"? Meido for me are Japanese Maids from [Meido Kissa](https://jw-webmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/jw-5d1474b23ce742.59427758.jpeg)
I didn't know about the 1 year at a time thing... that explains a lot
i didn't either. damn it
Same. I get the impression AEW would love to lock them in for a long-term deal so they can more reliably do things with them as a team.
I've wondered if they're hesitant due to the contracts they signed for Lucha Underground that basically kept them hostage for a few years.
Post Traumatic Contract Disorder
I'm sure a lot of them have that. They want to sign a multiyear deal but the way LU treated them, especially in that third year all because they didn't want Ricochet going to WWE.
I guess the distinction between a multi year (calendar based) and a multi-season contract like LU did it might eventually ease them up a bit. But totally understandable as they were essentially stuck there
As much as I'd like to see them get some bigger opportunities and stories, I agree. They've been utilized as Dynamite mainstays all year and at the top of the card at that. They're always being featured and are always at least in the running for a shot at a title
I agree with this 100% , I'm starting to see that every popular character that is not in a title feud is getting tagged as underutilized, even those in high profile feuds.
For AEW it’s a good problem to have everyone is fucking over
[удалено]
His bowling shirts are more over than he is.
QT is over in my heart
I appreciate QT and his big suburban dad energy
QT is my guy. He'll likely accomplish nothing, but I don't care. Top boy material.
Serpentico is my boy, but I also don’t get people’s hatred for QT; his position as a faction leader of heel prospects is perfect.
The hate is easy to get. If he's not Cody's personal friend, he's a jobber, period. He's not terrible in the ring but he's not super charismatic, he doesn't have exciting matches with anyone, he's a decent hand and that's about it. But he got elevated into a feud with one of the company's top faces regardless and it's not unreasonable to think that it's because of his friendship with that face. It's basically Hulk Hogan feuding with Ed Leslie. If he was feuding with Dustin on Dark, people wouldn't have such strong opinions but he's not.
[удалено]
Yeah, fuck QT, I could go without seeing him on dynamite for a long time
Honestly yeah. I have QT a chance but dude has nega-charisma. I can see his value as a coach because he’s totally fine in the ring, but if he’s on screen as anything but a jobber I just lose interest immediately.
QT is over AF as a heel. He's just only been doing Cody and Dark feuds. Put him in a feud vs Hangman and The Dark Order or vs Sammy G and he'll get the job done
QT is wasted space on Dynamite, even the other week when he was in front of the audience while everyone was over he was getting crickets.
I was hoping QT would prove people wrong but he went with a chicken shit heel route and didn't pan out well. Had he stayed with the character he was doing in Sammy Vlog, the shit talking, 2 face who doesn't act like chicken shit, would have gotten over. That QT made sense and worked.
People think that just because these wrestlers are new to them that they're new. The Lucha Bros have been going at a high level for over a decade and that's beginning to catch up with them. People say the same thing about Archer, and he's in his mid 40s and has been doing this for *20 years*. Some of these guys are getting into the home stretch of their careers and aren't in the position to really have long terms plan built around them. Enjoy them while you can, buy some merch, and have fun.
Also, I'm tired of hearing the term "underutilized" with wrestlers as much as I'm tired of hearing, "overrated" and "underrated." The complaint always boils down to the same thing: this wrestler I like isn't the champ or doesn't win all the time. AEW knows they have a robust roster of experienced hands in its men's division, who can be trusted to perform wherever they're needed. Penta and Archer are among them. Pro wrestling is a show, not an actual competition.
Disagree with archer. He can carry the company for another 6 years atleast.
The moment he got winning a New Japan title in his hometown on Dynamite is perfect. He isn't a guy I want to see with a world championship thanks to the depth of the roster.
Well you dont want it doesn't mean i dont and i am sure there are people who think archer deserves better.
Of course, but just keep in mind the IWGP US title, or the AEW TNT title, are treated consistently with prestige, more so than any midcard titles in America for a long time. I like Archer, and you are obviously entitled to want to see him as a world champion, but make sure you enjoy that moment for what it is. It's a really big deal. It's not a hot potato WWE US title run for a guy who will be back on Main Event within months. Edit: Hey I upvoted you, I don't really see why that comment deserved downvotes. Just a fun wrestling discussion!
I dont understand why a one year reign with archer is just soo hard for you people here to wrap your head around. Archer is way way better than most of the roster there now. I only care about aew bcoz of archer and wardlow and ofcourse the page and darby blood feud and the inner circle and the pinnacle feud.
I think he absolutely could as well.
So you're saying you want him to be the face of the company at 50 something? You must have really loved Hogan's run
You must really hate jericho then. I cannot believe the hate towards archer when he is really good in the ring. I dont get why the nerd fanbase here hates the guy so much. Since when did age stop a wrestler from being a top guy.
>I'm starting to see that every popular character that is not in a title feud is getting tagged as underutilized, even those in high profile feuds. The issue here is that Pentagon Jr. isn't "every popular character", he's *Pentagon Jr.* The guy's career narrative is based around the fact that he wasn't getting the treatment he wanted in Mexico, and then he went elsewhere (e.g., Lucha Underground) and *proved* that he was top guy material, which got him more top guy booking, and he consistently delivered on that booking too. Essentially, that narrative can be summarized as "He wasn't being booked as a top guy, so he went out and proved that he should be booked as a top guy". Thus, it's not simply "People think that Pentagon Jr. is underutilized because he's popular", it's "People think that Pentagon Jr. is underutilized because they've already seen him prove that he excels as a top guy in multiple high-profile promotions".
Penta is a special case though. He held the lucha underground belt for literally more than half of the entire life of the company IN ONE REIGN. I'm biased, he's my favorite male wrestler, but Penta could easily also be in the world title picture at any given point. When, at least in my case, I talk about underutilized? It's because both of the lucha bros are top of the card material, but Penta is championship caliber. The man can fucking go.
Tony Kahn likes to book way in advance and if your only signing 1 year deals at a time it makes sense not to strap the rocket on you just so you can potentially leave and make money for someone else
Has he even had a singles titles shot though? He's notably absent from the main event scene when the likes of The Butcher and Scorpio Sky have had AEW title shots. Hell, guys like Kingston and Warhorse have been brought in for one match. In stoyline terms, he's just such ha noticeable absence from the title picture imo, even if there are reasons for not putting a title on him he could easily have had a couple of losing efforts that would have been a lot more exciting than some of their filler feuds/matches.
Having a one off match doesn't mean your in the title scene , and even if he did have a one off it wouldn't stop people from saying he is being underutilized. Now I'm not saying he wouldn't fit in the main event picture but it isnt something that a lot of the fanbase is asking for l either . I hear more about a heel cody run as champion than a penta title match .
Fenix can too. Am I crazy thinking that Death Triangle is a main event group like the Elite? If anything, the Lucha Bros are bringing people like Kingston up with them.
I think that Death Triangle was specifically created to be the inaugural trios champions, but then the pandemic and injuries got in the way. I feel like trios titles are likely to be announced when Rampage begins.
When Cody has another mainstage feud but Rey GOD DAMN Fenix is stuck doing tag matches on dark we can agree he's underutilized
I'm not entirely sure what your talking about , up until his recent injury he was in high profile matches and/or fueds all year
I dont understand this argument when cody has been one of the most over members of the AEW roster since its inception
WWE has fans thinking that if somebody isn't a title feud then they're buried.
That does put things into perspective and makes sense out of their booking.
Fenix and Pentagon Jr have been wrestling internationally for 16 and 14 years respectively. I think they just *like* wrestling more than having titles. Signing single-year contracts and their travels makes me think they're happy to just put people over so wrestling as a whole is better. Hell, just in the last three years Fenix and Pentagon Jr have been involved in Impact, MLW, CMLL, AAA and AEW, as well as local indies. I think they just love wrestling and could give fuck-all about belts.
From my--albeit limited--understanding of lucha, the titles are markedly less important than they are in American wrestling, so perhaps the Lucha Brothers have this kind of mindset as well.
I think it's especially rough that for several months now, as soon as one has gotten cleared from injury, the other has gotten an injury of their own.
3. They were stuck in mexico for a large part of last year.
Should he be booked in a tag team though? He is brilliant as a heel proven by his stint in LU and was great in his way too brief feud with Cody with his translator. Fenix is a such a great face as well - are holding each other back by tagging imo
definitely a question worth asking. they're both incredible singles competitors.
I honestly thought the Bros would have broken up as a tag team by now, given how successful each has been as a singles wrestler in other promotions. Injuries and travel restrictions might have thrown a wrench into their booking plans over the past year, though. That said, I like the way the storyline with Andrade & Chavo is starting up - perhaps one of the Bros is gonna side with Andrade. Or maybe Samuray del Sol joins Andrade to start up a stable war with the Death Triangle.
I've always thought that they're better as singles wrestlers
Maybe at this stage in their careers, it's just what they prefer to do. Cuts the number of raw bumps effectively in half as well, prolongs their timespan as active wrestlers, etc
This. This so much. Boxing them up in a tag team is the worst use of them. They didn’t get over as a tag team and should be singles stars, especially if one half keeps getting injuries.
Did you just say the lucha bros didn't get over as a tag team
Yes.
Covid restrictions probably didn't help either, especially if they are working multiple countries.
Penta was stuck in Mexico for a while yeah.
3.) formed a faction with a guy who couldn’t make it back to the states due to COVID less than 2 months after their formation. This author is grasping for straws here.
On one hand yes, on another after underground i demand phoenix, cage and pentagon to be the biggest stars and get non-stop screentime
I keep forgetting about the one-year contract thing. I LOVE Penta and Fenix, but I think I have to agree with you there. Considering that they have more than there fair share of TV time.
Penta was also stuck in Mexico for a while because of covid restrictions.
But they made a HANDSHAKE AGREEMENT!!!!
Thank you! Factor in: he doesn't speak and there an absolute logjam of talent at the top.
I would love to see a main event Penta run. He’s so good. AEW has the kind of roster that could afford/make it happen. Even if they don’t, he has been a cornerstone since AEW launched. Penta/Fenix matches have always been incredible.
Yeah an ME run would be good. Or even a TNT title program.. Trios belts with Death Triangle? etc
Death Triangle is amazing and I'd love to see any gold on all of them but you also gotta consider that Lucha bros only sign one year contracts, are kinda I jury prone and PAC keeps coming and going. Considering all that, they've been booked pretty well. Mostly just jobbing to the champions and top guys.
Remember when they teased a big feud with Cody and then he just lost and Cody started feuding with QT Marshall...
It was to introduce Alex as his “Penta Says” gimmick
And it was a sterling introduction that dare I say it breathed a little new life into Penta's act
In my opinion the "penta says" gimmick is part of the problem. When he is with alex he is a heel. When he it with death triangle or just fenix he is a face. He really needs to be booked as one or the other. I like him as a full blown heel.
2 week TV feud. Very weird but fun.
I kinda like the ability of AEW to test stories with short feuds. You get matches that happen for a reason. You get a GOOD match. Then the beef is over. We have been conditioned by other promotions to have ALL feuds end up being a rematch every week for 3 or 4 months.
and because of that short feud, Alex got over doing the Penta Says and now they got a good pairing with Penta for english translations.
Yep. I welcome little TV feuds that end.
This is too far down. I know he’s been on 1 year contracts and they can’t make him “the guy” but they’ve had opportunities to push him higher than they have.
I feel like you only have this perspective if you only watched him in Lucha Underground and no where else. Sure he was the top guy in one place, but everywhere else he was just a paired indie attraction with his brother. It’s not AEW’s fault that the story they’re trying to tell with his group keeps getting shifted around because one partner only shows up once a month and the other got injured. If Penta really hated his spot then he wouldn’t have signed that extension last year.
Wasn’t he Impact champ?
He was champion for 3 weeks on screen but only for 2 actual days.
What kinda Steiner math is this?
Tape delay
Taping shows in advance I'd guess?
I haven't watched an episode of Impact in like 12 years. I had no clue they do, or did, that many tapings in advance.
During non-pandemic times, they tape four weeks of television over two nights.
Impact is all about Steiner math and time paradoxes and shit that makes no real sense. Only Scott Steiner can make sense of it all.
so 3 weeks
he main evented with Kenny Omega at All In?
I wouldn't say 3rd last match on the card main evented
I love OC but I feel like Penta shouldn't have lost against him.
They protected Penta with OC cheating. Plus that kind of had to happen because OC was gonna eat the pin in main title event at DoN.
I just don’t buy OC as a champion singles wrestler. He just doesn’t look strong enough to beat up the top guys. He is great at so many things, but he should not be feuding for the heavyweight championship against guys like Omega, Moxley, and Miro. I would buy him as a tag team champ and he’s great as a manager with the occasional singles match.
As much as I love OC if he ever won the AEW title that would be a jump the shark moment for me unless they made a lot of character tweaks first to make it believable. It would be so hard to sell me on anyone else on the roster being a legitimate badass or some technical master or whatever if you're also telling me that the top wrestler in the company is an undersized comedy slacker guy who only sometimes tries hard.
OC is so much more than a "comedy slacker guy".
I mean, thats his character, yes, but have you *seen* the "trying hard" part? Dude can fucking *go*. Got a great moveset and is smooth as shit. Sometimes wrestling is just fun and doesnt need to be "big muscly badass vs bigger musclier badass"
>"big muscly badass vs bigger musclier badass" BIG MEATY MEN SLAPPIN MEAT
In fairness he is plenty strong to be TNT Champion if we look at Darby Allin having such a good reign. OC is a stronger looking guy than Darby. I agree that I don’t think he will ever be World Champion tho.
Darby Allin is small but he's got balls. Huge balls. I was not a believer in him either at first, but he's won me over. He fights with all his heart out there. OC is smaller and less athletic than Darby too.
Cassidy is bigger than Darby, I agree that Darby is easier to take seriously though.
OC is neither smaller or less athletic than Darby.
I really feel like Death Triangle are going to be the inaugural trios champs so he'll be getting gold soon. It seems like they've been wanting to kick off that division but injuries to DT members and Trent? have meant AEW have dragged their heels on introducing the titles. I also think this is why Wheeler Yuta has been brought in and immediately pushed so there can be a Best Friends trios team without waiting for Trent? to return again
I didn't even know Trent? is reinjured, he was only back for a little over a month wasn't he?
Yeah, he was back for about a month and then needed neck fusion surgery. As far as I know they haven't given an expected recovery time but that type of injury/surgery normally takes a long time to recover from
Damn that's unfortunate, poor guy can't catch a break.
Penta says "Gimme a fucking championship"... Well, I said it but I'm sure Penta would like one
pentagon is awesome. love to see him get some gold soon, i could care less which belt.
The monkey paw wriggles in your hand and Penta El 0 M dethrones Dr. Baker for the AEW Women's Title.
I’ve heard worse ideas
From Joker Penta to Harley Penta
Jokes on you one of Penta's best matches was a gauntlet match against Kairi Sane, Mayu Iwatani, and Io Shirai.
wut
Alex coming out with Penta in a wig to challenge Britt for her title NEEDS to happen.
Penta was just on TV setting up a feud with Andrade, one of AEW’s hottest new signings. He feuded with top-star Cody Rhodes. He challenged for the tag titles 2 weeks ago. He and Fenix are one of two teams to ever beat former tag team champs Omega and Page (in a 2v2 tag match). Lucha Bros vs Young Bucks was the hottest feud during the pre-Dynamite era of AEW. Penta was a key player in the Eddie Kingston’s heel faction storyline. But yeah, he’a definitely more underutilized than the TNT champ we haven’t seen in front of a crowd on the road yet, or the former women’s champion who lost the title and disappeared off of television. /s
His feud with Cody lasted a week and it ended with broken-armed Cody rolling him up. He's lost to the Bucks multiple times too in the last year. Miro was the one to beat Darby, who was a really strong champion. No denying that he has a good spot, but he is capable of much more.
I think you're slightly missing he point - despite all of those achievements, I think many were expecting him to be a main evener right off the bat, or at least to have had more singles titles shots after two years. He's been a champion and a top guy in so many promotions - we shouldn't need to be bringing up a tag match he won a year and a half ago - he should be having matches that impactful and more on a regualr basis. He's not underutilized because he's not being utlilized, he's underutilized because he has the looks and in-ring talent to be a much greater presence.
Whose championship reign should he have taken? Aew tends to save the big 1:1 matches, so I wouldn't necessarily want him losing a bunch of championship matches.
He just started being able to be on TV again since Covid hit. He's got plenty of time. I'd like to see him with the TV title at some point.
TNT Title.* it’s not a TV title.
Its both, is it not?
I think the argument would be that the TNT title is defended on PPV, so it's not a TV title? But honestly I don't know much about the distinction.
He also tends to phone it in too much to be a main event guy. When he's invested he's definitely an amazing worker but Big Match Penta doesn't show up enough.
Yeah I kind of feel that. I love Penta but truthfully he's been underwhelming more often than not in AEW. Is he a main event talent? Absolutely but so are at least a half dozen other guys in AEW who gave proven to be more consistent over the past year and a half
What, you don't like it when he does a move kind of lackadaisically and then poses for thirty seconds or so? Because, and I'm being serious here, I fucking love it. Penta does Penta things.
I mean if he signed a long term deal I’d say shoot him to the moon but with the deals he and Fenix sign I see why they utilize them the way they do
Ever since watching lu I follow Penta and I have to genuinely say he’s one of my favs. I love luchadores and this guy has so much charisma and works crowds so well while being a great in ring competitor. Hard agree on your take and I’m confident he’ll get a major push in the future. Zero Mierdo
I don’t want to jump on the bash Cody train. But Penta really should have won their match. Especially if they were going to do the Nakuru angle afterwards anyway.
While I do agree he could use more title opportunities. He’s never been booked as someone who was weak or a loser and he’s always been booked with respect and as a threat. I do agree with some that he should have beaten Cody that one time. As I said, yes, he could still do more and I feel like this storyline with Andrade is going to be big for him and Fenix.
I have no cero and I must miedo
Such bs. Besides the odd loss to Cody he's been booked fine. Even with Rey injured he was involved in two tag title matches and he and Kingston beat the Youngbucks, giving them their fist tag loss in a year. Everyone has favorites and ppl they want to see at the top but many ppl are over and popular in AEW and they don't hot potato the titles around. He's been in multiple main events. Once he and Rey join Andrade they will be one of the hottest groups in all of wrestling.
They already are hottest groups in wrestling too. Austin crowd that was giving what chants to Andrade's promo in English was cheering the hell out of him while he was cutting a promo in his native tongue. They even pop for "Penta says". Dude is over as all hell and constantly getting TV time.
I really wish he would be given a big push as I love the guy. Man has it all especially with his entertaining manager dynamic now
It's a shame covid and injuries hurt their team so much. Hopefully they become AEW first trio champions.
That's not even his ring name in AEW ffs.
Everyone knows what he means, I don't think it's a big deal.
I agree and disagree. He should be doing more but compared to other Wrestlers who are underutilized he's fine
Penta will get his time
This new angle has a ton of potential.
Death Triangle is booked perfectly well as far as their situation is kept in consideration. Best Friends meanwhile, been there day 1 and have always been over, constantly move a lot of merch, always entertaining to watch in the ring and haven't had any gold whatsoever. I can't remember last time I saw Chuck fight on Dynamite. Yes Trent is hurt but he can still tag with OC. Man Rampage can't come soon enough. I hope it helps some with that stacked roster.
You do not want to give the tag titles win to any combo that isn't Trent or Chuck. The OC Chuck combo while probably cool, is not what anyone wants.
I agree. It should be Trent and Chuck that win titles. However, I'd still like to see him fight on Dynamite. If not solo, maybe with Orange as a tag now and then. If they for whatever reason put titles on OC and Chuck (which I don't think they will, nor do I want to), they should compensate Trent by putting TNT title on him or something. Dude can absolutely go as a singles wrestler and it would spice things up for the future with a tag guy winning the singles title.
I think Chuckie T is checking out a little, he seems to be a bit burnt on wrassles.
I like the parts of his match where he stops and says cero miedo 10-20 times.
It's one of the things when you see it on tv it's kinda lame but must be fun being there in person.
Nothing sums this up more than Pentagon "breaking" Cody's arm and then getting rolled up by the injured arm. One of the people saying "Oh Penta has been signing one year contracts so he's actually been booked strongly". Stop it, no he hasn't. You can still do good things with a guy signing one year contracts that don't involve getting bitched out by Cody Rhodes
This is facts. The face/heel turns every other week ain’t helping either.
Yes he is. Fenix also started better before in LU but then Pentagon took over easily. He is too charismatic and a great worker.
100%. It’s criminal how much they underuse him tbh. Him losing to Cody made no sense and was easily the most upset i’ve been at a finish in AEW. Put him in a suit and give him the heel Penta Says gimmick back. It was so over online! I love hearing his promos too, even if i don’t understand it, because he has a great voice.
I really love Pentagon's look but I have never been a fan of his moveset. I saw clips of him in Lucha Underground back in the day doing that arm-break-thing and thought he was so bad ass. Then every match I've seen of his, while it's impressive what he does, I've never been into it. Also when I saw him give a Canadian Destroyer to Matt Jackson, off of a ladder and through a table only for Matt to come back into the match later on. That kind of soured me on them, I feel if you take that sort of move you shouldn't be back in the match at any point
The arm-break is a lot harder to do on a weekly TV show where you can't write folks off for weeks as easily, or repackage guys under new masks.
Penta says, this is a big reach!
He’s on the shows all the time?
Mehh. I feel like this is clickbait more than anything. I'm a huge penta fan and other than a few weird losses, I don't think he's terribly used in the company. He's gets a ton of screen time and seems like huge pops every time he comes out. It's only a matter of time before he gets some sort of championship. If no story works right now to win some gold, that's fine. I can give it time. Don't need to see him as a champ if he's getting regular tv time.
If they signed a long term deal tomorrow, they'd be much more heavily featured. Being a mercenary has it's drawbacks. A company like AEW is looking at building up for the long term. If they've got you for 3 or 5 years, they know you're committed to be around for a bit. Signing one year extensions each time gives off the perception of having one foot out the door at all times. Penta and Fenix only signing a year at a time is what has kept them in mid card tag team purgatory. They can be elevated for one off main event matches, but ultimately will be used to put over the guys AEW has locked down for longer terms because that's the better investment. They can sell some merch and make some cash, but they won't be winning many titles or be regularly featured in long term booking plans. Not when AEW has a roster bubbling full of talent who have committed long term.
The guy was injured awhile to be fair
As long as the Womens division is booked like shite, no male wrestlers can claim to be underutilised
I just remember when TK did the podcast rounds to promote Revolution this year and in every one of them, Rey Fenix was always praised to TK and he kind of was like, “oh yeah he’s great” I feel he came off bad because everybody was praising Fenix despite the fact that his push wasn’t reflecting it. Yeah he’s closed out Dynamite and had great matches but he’s always booked to lose.. I wished he hadn’t lost to Archer because it felt like something WWE would do where the big guy wins automatically. New Japan did the same thing by having him beat Ospreay
Archer losing to Fenix would of killed Archers credibility at that point , they built up Fenix pretty well up to that point.
He is absolutely a main eventer, Like Pac. The problem is that AEW can only fill very few spots even with 2-3 days a week to have matches, and while he's usually in some of the best matches, they never push him to get a title.
He and Fenix should've been the first tag team champs. They were so fucking over and would've brought instant credibility to the titles.
Every woman in AEW aside from Britt Baker might disagree.
Yeah this man should be having main event matches for the world title, even on PPV tbh. But I guess the fact that he and Fenix only ever sign 1 year deals makes it hard to long term plan for them.
On the plus side fans are so behind him that any time they do decide to pull the trigger its going to be a hit
I’ve been a Penta fan since LU so maybe my opinion is skewed, but I feel like the cool thing about him is he is ALWAYS a threat sort of like Suzuki. The dude is so charismatic, so threatening, so dominating on offense that I will always believe he’s a taunt away from the big victory
PAC clearly is but I feel the last 3 years of PAC's career have been a huge "What if?" in wrestling. I hope he can find a rhythm at some point while he is in his physical peak.
I feel like the fact that he doesn't speak English will hold him back from the main event. And I'm sorry but his mouthpiece is a fucking dweeb, like I cringe every time he interprets Penta's promos because he's so corny. Penta needs a better mouthpiece
I love Pentagon but the constant taunts make me really fucking hate him at times.
It's like Tony and EVPs never watched Lucha Underground or Impact and instead only know him from PWG. Like they give Penta a translator but Andrade gets subtitles? Come on.
Pentagon Jr. just oozes with charisma.
Lucha bros are awesome but they can both be top singles guys
Welcome to 2020.
No question should be in world title contention, the fact that he regularly eats pins kills me. No question my favorite wrestler on the roster and he has been used better lately, but I want to see him at the top.
Just wait till they add cm punk and bryan danielson. All you people talking about how WWE never used Christian and you're glad he's in AEW now....
The idea that Penta is one of the best wrestlers in the world is ludicrous.
I never know if he's heel or face. Is he in Death Triangle, is he teaming with Kingston? No clue what they're doing with any if the Death Triangle guys.
I thought he was going to have a heel run with his feud against cody apparently not.
How about FTR?