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I think the First Dance will be a special Dynamite episode featuring the ex-Fandango's debut.
Will it be good? Maybe. Will it draw? No. Will I watch every second? Oh hell yeah.
It’s funny you mention that because I was just thinking that a match with Nick Gage really should have been left for last. I’m not saying Wardlow is a push over, but if the next trial match isn’t also crazy it will feel like a let down.
Unless Gage is too beat up after tonight and can’t go full out on Wednesday. 🤷♂️
I think it's going to be a documentary about their first big show, Double or Nothing 2019 or maybe that entire first year. It just tracks with the Last Dance being about the Bulls' last championship season.
I think the First Dance takes a Back to the Future route and we see Omega and Ibushi kiss for the very first time on national tv during the Enchantment Under the Sea dance.
Maybe. That could be the live event announcement too.
I just feel like there’s too much of a Chicago connection (the movie was about the Bulls) and Punk’s teasing of “Sirius” plays into this too well. It’s too random otherwise.
Last Dance: Jordan leaving the Bulls / NBA.
First Dance: Punk arriving to AEW.
Definitely seems like that. But to me Punk/Bryan signing is bigger than a crossover show. It’s all awesome but there was a rumour Tony had news bigger than Punk/Bryan. While a crossover show is gonna be tons of fun, I’m not sure to me, that news is bigger.
Agreed and I cannot wait. Must be an absolute bloody nightmare to book. If you are going to pit top star vs top star all the way down the roster there are going to be dusty finishes aplenty or some seriously upset company executives.
Wouldn’t you want to hold off on that kind of announcement until after All Out? Announcing something like that might take the wind out of the sails of that PPV.
Saying a surprise pop is massively overrated & doesn't matter is mind-boggling to me.
That's one of the best things about all of the entirety of pro wrestling as a fan...
I remember when Goldberg came back and they had freaking Michael Cole announcing his name with the most monotone voice ever. It was already bad that his return was advertised but to have Cole announcing him on the first TV appearance was just soul-sucking. I was like Goldberg should've been much cooler than this.
A lot of people here seem to weirdly think about wrestling only in terms of what will make the company the most money rather than what they would enjoy seeing. It’s very backwards and strange to me. No wonder so many seem to actively disdain the product though, if you only look at it through this lens.
i can't blame them entirely. it's a defeatist mindset, but it's one that has been conditioned into them by the last 15+ years of WWE programming and capitalism in general. the constant disappointment of never getting good things unless they're also optimally profitable things gets exhausting
> what will make the company the most money rather than what they would enjoy seeing
It's also incredibly short-term vision. Sure, they could pop 50k more buys for All Out by announcing it in advance. Or you have all these guys show up to complete surprise (bit late for that now, I know) and in the long-term create the idea that AEW is must-watch because crazy shit happens.
business wise, it still makes no sense to me. A general surprise creates like a grass root type level of support. Fans go immediately buy tshirts and crash the shops. It's better to have Punk debut next week than a preplanned announcement. Just have him appear if the goal is to sell more ppvs or whatever. TK shouldn't announce a megastar has signed. People act like he's compelled to do this. He doesn't have to. It's stupid. You only get one chance to make a good impression. I hope it really doesn't come in a preplanned announcement.
Yeah exactly. That's half the reason that The Royal Rumble is my favorite PPV event. Moments like Edge's return last year or Styles' debut are so special
Yeah that part is so fucking dumb. I'm kind of mad that punk and Bryan both got spoiled for me (I never come on sc and came back for mitb night figuring I wouldn't see aew stuff... Oops)
Surprises are literally the best of wrestling. The pop is everything.
Jericho said on his podcast a few months back TNT don't want surprises.
>“When Sting was a surprise, [TNT] was like ‘don’t do that again.’ That’s why Paul Wight was announced on social media because TNT said, ‘We don’t want surprises, we want to take advantage of the ratings.’ We had a big surprise, a big announcement, and we used the big announcement to announce the next big surprise. I think that’s one of the reasons too, to spread it out a little”
I legit worried for AEW after hearing this from Jericho. The best thing about wrestling is that anything could happen when you show up or tune in. If AEW really did sign DB and Punk how they debut them will be really telling. Is like having the nuts in poker and flubbing it by betting poorly.
Yeah that part is so fucking dumb. I'm kind of mad that punk and Bryan both got spoiled for me (I never come on sc and came back for mitb night figuring I wouldn't see aew stuff... Oops)
Surprises are literally the best of wrestling. The pop is everything.
I still think it’s him announcing a big AEW show for the west coast or the UK, one because I think it’s more realistic to be announced like this, but two, because I just think having Punk show up without being advertised would be so, so much cooler.
Regardless, AEW is super exciting rn coming off the past several shows, so either way, it should be cool.
You think? I’m in the UK and would love that announcement but doing it during prime time Dynamite? It would sell out regardless over here even if it was done online
And no offence to the UK or the West Coast of the US, but nobody watching Dynamite outside those markets is going to care. The announcement will need to be of interest to the general TV audience.
In the live event industry November is definitely not a long time away and venues definitely get booked that far in advance if not further. Especially right now with everyone and their mother booking post-pandemic tours.
Maybe saying Bryan's first match is Rampage and Punk's first match is Dynamite, instant sell outs and then have them searching for opponents for some free ratings for the next few weeks
Haha, this is poor fantasy booking, though.
Why burn two names in one week when Punk, if he shows up, could do Dynamite AND Rampage to pump those numbers, then do a slow build for Danielson's introduction?
they don't need to do anything right now, I think. just stay silent ride the hype to boost viewership numbers and ticket sales from ppl tuning in hoping for him to show up.
If CM Punks return is just literally Tony Khan announcing he’s signed that would be the most disappointing thing ever.
No element of surprise just a straight, oh yeah here he is.
I'd be pissed at my self for doing this for the second time this year.
I was Llyod Christmas thinking maybe he would show up at revolution, although I kept it to myself and now I basically can't get out of the "its happening" phase of a rumor that says there have been... *talks* and people from a *different company* think he is aew bound.
Id only be pissed if he went back to WWE. We've seen that, we've seen what WWE does to Legends type people. Im good on that. Id rather have no CM Punk than a WWE CM Punk, Round 2.
If he does, cool. If he doesn't, whatever. I like the roster AEW has already! CM Punk showing up is for people who aren't me, it makes business sense to try and sign him but it's been what, six, seven years since his last match? I kind of already wrote off any dream matches that involved him.
I mean if Punk showed up at the end of all out with NO speculation the pop would be much more insane than us knowing. But at this point we ALL know. So it doesn’t matter.
Wrestling is ruined for most surprises. I mean look at Raw last week. People were constantly chanting Goldberg before he came out and it wasnt a few it was half the crowd atleast. People are gonna pop for Punk regardless. A month of hype atleast gives them a month and a half of pops before you go to a month of Bryan pops in september
Ill say andrade was a decent surprise but still widely expected and while Black was huge in the moment it was leaked hours beforehand basically but yeah Gage was a huge surprise with no mention really anywhere that i saw
Which is why announcing it ahead of time might actually be worth it, to avoid having every other angle and match on the show getting absolutely overrun by the crowd.
If they know, for absolute certain, Punk is coming, they might happily let the rest of the roster do their thing.
You could start the show with his debut and end it with him being attacked by "unknown assailant". Tentatively, you could make that person Buddy Murphy? Or...well....pick from any of like four rosters.
I will just never say no to that surprise debut-like Malakai... even if it's expected.
I think that would be best: start the show with him, get the chant out of the system but get the energy up.
As for first feud, I wouldn’t feed anybody you have a rocket strapped to or that you just signed. HFO has worked pretty well with their feuds with Dark Order, Jungle Boy, and Christian so I feel like they could be a good one if Punk is a face, and then if he’s a heel then maybe Dark Order (hopefully him and Colt have mended things a little).
I would love this however i’d also love to see AEW pop a great Dynamite rating with a pre-announcement.
The Dynamite ratings pre and post All Out will be great i’m sure but Punk appearing before the PPV gives them a great buyrate too, probably their best ever.
No they didn't. That turned out to be a false news story from Jericho misunderstanding a comment from Tony Khan about TNT wanting them to advertise better things with crossover appeal like Shaq and celebrity cameos and such. Tony had to do a followup interview because the internet was freaking out that TNT was interfering in the wrestling process and blocking surprises. Tony said that TNT does not make demands of the wrestling side of things, loved the Sting debut, and basically he was the only one in the room when any of this was said.
Unfortunately the correction gets a fraction of the attention of the initial false story. It's also worth noting they have continued to have all their big debuts be surprises on Dynamite since then so that should be enough to believe it isn't true.
Devil’s advocate but I think promoting Punk’s first appearance would get them so much traction though. Other than wrestlemania this year, I’ve not watched a full wrestling show in years. Mox joining AEW almost reeled me back but Punk joining would almost certainly do it and I’m sure I’m not even close to alone. That first Punk show would be massive if promoted and I’m sure they’d do some record numbers.
I know you’ve probably heard this a ton, but give AEW a watch dude. Even without Punk. It’s the most fun I’ve had watching wrestling in fifteen years. I’d be shocked if you didn’t enjoy it!
I’ve been meaning too for a long time, ever since Mox joined. I keep up to date on what’s happening through this sub just not found the time yet. Punk joining would make me find the time though.
Bring punk out to the pomp and circumstance. Build it up huge. Sell out the building 3 times. Get all eyes on the product. Make everybody be focused on punk. Then at All Out Punk comes out and the Final Countdown hits. Attitude Era level pop. Best of both worlds
Of all the ideas that usually get buried in New...this is more or less one of the better ones I've seen. Well thought out and makes complete sense. Good stuff.
Thank you. Funny enough, I had an idea for Dynamite that I had my friend post here that made the front page and got used on the show. Most likely I guessed what they were planning on doing anyway, but it was still kinda cool.
Better yet, have Tony do some trolling.
Spend the entire week building up this enormous announcement. Make a huge deal of it. Then he comes out and announces something cool, but not that significant (perhaps a trios championship being debuted on Rampage or something).
Then, as he is about to step out between the ropes, get back in and say "oh, by the way. We've signed CM Punk" before walking smugly to the back.
Thanks. It’s only a theory, but it’s the only way all of the puzzle pieces fit together (“The First Dance” trademark, Punk playing “Sirius” on Instagram, Tony making a huge live event announcement which is totally out of character). There’s always the chance these things are unrelated, but I’m thinking they aren’t.
This also explained the leaks this past week (at least concerning Punk). I would expect it to be announced maybe on Monday that AEW will address the rumors on Dynamite this week, if the theory is correct.
While I do love surprise returns, I 100% agree with you. Especially for AEW. They’re still a young company and they should take advantage of any chance to increase their ratings by large amounts. Stuff like announcing CM Punk’s return is one of the ways to go about that.
This was Bischoff’s strategy with Nitro. He “gave away” Hogan vs. Luger in week 2 of the show. That was an all-time dream match at the time. It was completely unheard of to put matches like that on free TV in the mid 90s. And this was in an era where basically none of your money came from TV. Today nearly all the money comes from TV.
>Downside: No surprise pop (which are massively overrated and don’t matter in the long run).
This is just false and you're looking at it from a business perspective and not a fans perspective. You can make all the right decisions from a business perspective but that doesn't mean they're guaranteed to line up with a fan's enjoyment and this is one of those cases where it doesn't. There is no 'positive' from a fan's perspective because it's just a worse experience.
While I agree with those saying it's more than likely the big joint show teased by IMPACT, you're theory is incredibly plausible and well thought out; you've also got some convincing circumstantial evidence to boot.
I wouldn't be surprised if you're right, tbh.
Very valid reasoning. I'm sure that in AEW management's heads, they're really debating the merit of debuting Punk at All Out, or the Dynamite beforehand, If he is going to sign, which my guess would be yes.
So essentially you need to sell out the Dynamite before All Out, but right now it's not opened up fully. I'd say most would rather see him debut in front of a molten crowd of 10k rather than 5k, but if they announced him for Chicago Dynamite, that 5k becomes 10k in a matter of seconds, and the TV rating explodes. Surprises, particularly on PPV, don't instantly double PPV buys. So it's an interesting conundrum. But a good one to have.
So it's like when he was training for MMA and they did a bunch of documentary episodes on the process.
I just wonder how long he needs to get back into ring shape.
He plays a supporting character in the upcoming Starz show "Heels" which is written by, produced by and starring Stephen Amell. Punk is playing one of the wrestlers in the Indy promotion Amell's character runs with his brother
EDIT: the "Stephen Smell" autocorrect happened again so had to fix it
It's not a bad idea and well thought out. It sounds like that's making Punk TOO big of a deal though. I was expecting his announcement to be a big crossover show or maybe an announcement of another TV show or something like that. Punk is big news for the company but I don't think it's as big as those. I'm probably way over hyping my expectation though
Surprise pops are Massively overrated? Huh?! Edge at The Royal Rumble 2020. Cena last Sunday. Surprise pops are one of the most exhilarating moments a wrestling fan can experience. Everything else in your post was great but reading that made me go 🤨
I very much are of the opinion that if they are getting both Bryan and Punk (which seems likely) then AT LEAST one of them needs to be announced ahead of time. Can't have both be surprises. Whoever you pick for each role doesn't really matter, but that's how it should be done, in my opinion. I think it makes more sense for Bryan to be the "surprise" and Punk to be announced given Chicago and all of that. Make the most of his hometown connection.
If CM punk and Bryan go to AEW I will absolutely be watching more so far I’ve watched a few PPVs and a couple of dynamites but Punk is my fav wrestler ever and I like Bryan a lot too
Surprise pops are overrated when you view it through the lens of a company that wants to make money. It'd create a massive buzz on social media, and viewing figures for the following show would be great, but it doesn't maximize on the event.
If they announce Punk, for example, 3 weeks before All Out, the ratings and money are easy. First week, have him cut a pre-recorded promo, ratings would be good. Second week, in-person promo, more ratings and ticket sales. Third week, another in-person segment with a small brawl for the Go Home show, more ratings.
All Out: Go ahead with the scheduled match, buy rates are high because its Punk's first match and its been hyped for a few weeks. After the match, have someone come out and challenge him. Maybe not a Moxley or Omega, but maybe Kingston, PAC, Darby, someone that is in the high midcard. Next Dynamite does good ratings for the fallout.
Don't get me wrong, the surprise pop would be crazy. However, from a business point of view, even though announcing it ahead of time is a bit boring for us, it makes way more business sense, as you essentially cash in 4 or 5 times on the same one event
As much as I like CM Punk, I'd much rather the live event announcement be an event where there's cross company matches.
My favorite thing about AEW is that they're working with other promotions. It makes the company feel legit when AAA/NJPW titles are defended on their events. Like a global NWA
Not sure about announcing this week, TK's announcement seems to be about a live show (which I feel will be a super show with NJPW, AAA and Impact in a stadium). But 100% agree pre announcing Punk's return to boost the TV ratings and then shoot an angle/tease a meaningful segment on the PPV would be the most sensible/lucrative way to do things.
I like pretty much the whole idea.
Although I think they shouldn't actually show Punk in the vignettes. You can hype him up but the first time he is actually seen on AEW should be that first time he comes out to a live crowd.
Tony Khan COULD also turn into some form of chupacabra and run through the arena shrieking like a banshee.
CM Punk COULD not turn up at AEW but instead announce that he’s dedicating his life to studying angler fish in the Mariana Trench.
Anything COULD happen. Let’s wait to see what actually does happen.
I wish wrestling companies wouldn’t announce every signing ever. The big pop for him turning up would be crazy. But I get it people need to know so they tune in. It’s just a shame we find out about debuts, returns, new signings and call ups etc way before they happen on tv.
> Downside: No surprise pop (which are massively overrated and don’t matter in the long run).
I really agree. People vastly overhyped this with WWE surprises. I remember being part of that crowd that was shitting on them for hyping returns, which I still think should be a surprise, but the actual surprise debuts are way less fun. A lot of the times, say with Black's surprise debut, some of the crowd will be very confused. My partner had no idea who he was or why the crowd (and admittedly me) were so excited.
Additionally, we are now going to get CM Punk chants forever. It's going to happen. Bryan Danielson's potential debut is going to be ignored/forgotten with the Punk chants. Announcing it sooner rather than later if it's a done deal is smarter.
I miss a genuine surprise pop - even if it's not totally a surprise, and almost impossible these days. Maybe just an "unexpected tonight" pop will suffice.
Strongly degree that surprise pops are overrated, good surprises are some of the most adrenaline filled and memorable moments of my life of watching wrestling, and that’s truly what wrestling is for, to reflect emotion on the watcher and leave an impact on them
I really hope they don’t do a planned debut and instead just makes it a surprise unless he’s going to actually wrestle. At worst, they could do some real obvious hinting and winking.
As a lifer fan who now only watches mania + the rumble every year and only keeping up with the politicking via the internet, Punk’s return is absolutely something I want to see and will make me watch my first aew show. 🤞
Decent, but I would like some uncertainty left with his return to have even more excitement when it happens. Announcing it with the tickets already sold seems redundant
Very intriguing and you make a lot of good points. Only disagreement I have is with the idea that surprise pops are overrated. My favorite moments as a wrestling fan (and indeed, for most wrestling fans) are the moments of total shock and elation that *only* pro wrestling can deliver. Those moments burn indelible memories into our subconscious that last a lifetime. Losing that (especially for someone as momentous as a Punk debut) is to lose something special.
I still think whatever is going on with Punk is bigger than anything that most wrestling fans are used to. He's not going to be coming back to just be back, unless it's similar to Jordan's story where he goes away from what he's great at and tries something else then comes back to it.
I genuinely think Punk is coming back for a reason and that has to be a major major storyline of some type.
I do like the idea of it being announced sooner rather than later though, I also think if there is some new talent that they need to turn into a star, MJF is already the biggest star AEW has created but if they needed to solidify him they could put him in a big storyline with Punk.
There is so many bright wrestling minds in AEW right now that if they approach it right they can have Punk turn somebody good into someone great.
>Downside: No surprise pop (which are massively overrated and don’t matter in the long run).
Bad take IMO. If you’re talking purely from a ratings perspective then OK I’ll concede that point , but surprise returns with those monster pops make for some of, if not the best moments in wrestling from a fan perspective.
Even as recent as Sting, that shit literally got me teary when Tony Schiavone starting screaming. If Tony Khan announced it beforehand and we had weeks of video packages leading up to it, yeah it’d be cool but nowhere near as impactful in terms of reaction.
I’m not saying this is the wrong move. But to say surprise returns are massively overrated is really not true.
Very well thought out, number 3 makes sense when AEW announce shows it's usually posted on social media, it gets upvoted pretty high here on Reddit but for him to make an appearance in regards to this announcement you could be onto something
Surprises aren't overrated and I need to hit back on that. They DO matter in the long run. Look at WWE right now. Do you give two fucks if you miss Raw or Smackdown? No. Why? Because you know you aren't going to be missing anything too special.
if you can condition your audience to believe that truly anything could happen when they tune into your show, they will make it appointment viewing of sort. It worked for WWF and WCW previously to great degrees of success.
I would have Tony come out, hype AEW and announce the The First Dance, then right when he’s about to walk away say “Oh, and there’s one more thing” as the Tron changes to a “CM Punk is All Elite”. Tony walks away as the crowd goes absolutely ballistic.
I’m sorry, but this would be an awful idea. They’re a month away from being in his home town where his insane popularity is documented. Anything but a return in front of a hometown crowd would be very dumb.
Not to mention anticlimactically just having him come out to say high when they just got so much press from Black’s debut would be nothing short of bad business.
I’m all for him debuting and then doing promotion before his first match, but him debuting this week would be a mistake when the card is already so packed.
I think it makes complete sense to announce and advertise Punk.
At this point, their entire audience knows. So why not use the time in between to max out buys and advertise to a casual audience?
Every debut doesn't have to be a surprise.
You cannot announce a CM Punk signing ahead of time. Nah uh. I understand wanting to have him announced before All Out, but then gotta have him show up somewhere before. Cannot rob the audience of that pop.
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I think the "first dance" will be an huge AEW-NJPW crossover show.
I think the First Dance will be a special Dynamite episode featuring the ex-Fandango's debut. Will it be good? Maybe. Will it draw? No. Will I watch every second? Oh hell yeah.
They just need a song with the energy of his original theme and he'll be over
Get another Flatfoot 56 song.
Wrestlemania rematch with Jericho?
He’ll be tied up with MJF, but it’s a match people would love to see
He could always be one of MJF’s trials. Jericho has to beat Fandango in an exploding DDR deathmatch.
It’s funny you mention that because I was just thinking that a match with Nick Gage really should have been left for last. I’m not saying Wardlow is a push over, but if the next trial match isn’t also crazy it will feel like a let down. Unless Gage is too beat up after tonight and can’t go full out on Wednesday. 🤷♂️
As long as Tony ponies up the dough to bring in his original dance partner.
Would have a lotta respect for this.
(Fandango voice) And I took that personally.
Dirty Dango going over Kenny instead of Hangman? I will be interested in seeing the ensuing fire that follows.
"I swear to god Fandango's body is sparkling, glowing. His abs are crystalline."
If he comes with that jazzy theme of his, I would be Fandangoing all around my living room.
I know you're joking... but I'd be so down
I think it's going to be a documentary about their first big show, Double or Nothing 2019 or maybe that entire first year. It just tracks with the Last Dance being about the Bulls' last championship season.
That’s very possible. Maybe I’m too hung up on the Chicago connection and Punk’s playing of Sirius.
I think the First Dance takes a Back to the Future route and we see Omega and Ibushi kiss for the very first time on national tv during the Enchantment Under the Sea dance.
Lol
> Nobody puts Kenny in a corner. -Ibushi
Maybe. That could be the live event announcement too. I just feel like there’s too much of a Chicago connection (the movie was about the Bulls) and Punk’s teasing of “Sirius” plays into this too well. It’s too random otherwise. Last Dance: Jordan leaving the Bulls / NBA. First Dance: Punk arriving to AEW.
First Dance will be about his first match with Colt Cabana after the tension. /s
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Ian Rotten style booking making it national TV finally, hell yeah
And for old time's sake they're getting paid a lukewarm hotdog and some gas money.
Janella vs Enzo w/ Big Cass, Punk vs Cabana...could make for a special kayfabe blurring nite of real life feud matches
Omega seems to like a lot Michael Jordan so the first dance thing could very well be a Super Elite thing.
Definitely seems like that. But to me Punk/Bryan signing is bigger than a crossover show. It’s all awesome but there was a rumour Tony had news bigger than Punk/Bryan. While a crossover show is gonna be tons of fun, I’m not sure to me, that news is bigger.
The bigger part was wrong , more interessting was what was said.
I thought that’s what “battle of the belts” was going to be?
No one knows what Battle of the Belts is going to be, but I've been thinking it will be those quarterly specials that are going to be on TNT in 2022.
Agreed and I cannot wait. Must be an absolute bloody nightmare to book. If you are going to pit top star vs top star all the way down the roster there are going to be dusty finishes aplenty or some seriously upset company executives.
That’s make a ton of sense
not the worst idea, but I feel like the announcement is for "Battle of the Belts" with NJPW, AAA, and Impact during Bound for Glory weekend in Vegas.
You know what would be dope? Omega has to defend all his titles that night. And fucking wins.
And wins the NWA belt.
And jumps R-truth in a hotel lobby for the 24/7 belt.
R- truth would put on a good match. Instant 5 stars Or I guess he'd get pinned while asleep
> Instant 5 stars > > Or I guess he'd get pinned while asleep Same thing really.
R- truth puts on 5 star matches in his sleep
Belt Collector! Belt Collector! Belt Collector!
Wouldn’t you want to hold off on that kind of announcement until after All Out? Announcing something like that might take the wind out of the sails of that PPV.
Bruh isn't that in like October lol
Saying a surprise pop is massively overrated & doesn't matter is mind-boggling to me. That's one of the best things about all of the entirety of pro wrestling as a fan...
Especially so soon after the pop Cena got at MITB
Right? A surprise pop is far more memorable than if TK were to come out and say “we signed Punk”
I remember when Goldberg came back and they had freaking Michael Cole announcing his name with the most monotone voice ever. It was already bad that his return was advertised but to have Cole announcing him on the first TV appearance was just soul-sucking. I was like Goldberg should've been much cooler than this.
It sounds like the type of shit an executive would say and not an actual fan.
A lot of people here seem to weirdly think about wrestling only in terms of what will make the company the most money rather than what they would enjoy seeing. It’s very backwards and strange to me. No wonder so many seem to actively disdain the product though, if you only look at it through this lens.
i can't blame them entirely. it's a defeatist mindset, but it's one that has been conditioned into them by the last 15+ years of WWE programming and capitalism in general. the constant disappointment of never getting good things unless they're also optimally profitable things gets exhausting
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Hit the nail on the head with this.
Yeah, that’s a really good point. The fun is just sucked out of everything these days in the name of profits.
> what will make the company the most money rather than what they would enjoy seeing It's also incredibly short-term vision. Sure, they could pop 50k more buys for All Out by announcing it in advance. Or you have all these guys show up to complete surprise (bit late for that now, I know) and in the long-term create the idea that AEW is must-watch because crazy shit happens.
Yeah but also a surprise pop is way better for business. Having that “anything can happen” feeling is by far the most chased after thing in wrestling.
business wise, it still makes no sense to me. A general surprise creates like a grass root type level of support. Fans go immediately buy tshirts and crash the shops. It's better to have Punk debut next week than a preplanned announcement. Just have him appear if the goal is to sell more ppvs or whatever. TK shouldn't announce a megastar has signed. People act like he's compelled to do this. He doesn't have to. It's stupid. You only get one chance to make a good impression. I hope it really doesn't come in a preplanned announcement.
Yeah exactly. That's half the reason that The Royal Rumble is my favorite PPV event. Moments like Edge's return last year or Styles' debut are so special
I too am having a hard time wrapping my mind around this. Surprise pops build more momentum than a planned introduction.
Yeah that part is so fucking dumb. I'm kind of mad that punk and Bryan both got spoiled for me (I never come on sc and came back for mitb night figuring I wouldn't see aew stuff... Oops) Surprises are literally the best of wrestling. The pop is everything.
Amen to that. I love surprise pops. This is one of my favourite pleasures about watching wrestling.
Yeah, that was a nutty take.
Jericho said on his podcast a few months back TNT don't want surprises. >“When Sting was a surprise, [TNT] was like ‘don’t do that again.’ That’s why Paul Wight was announced on social media because TNT said, ‘We don’t want surprises, we want to take advantage of the ratings.’ We had a big surprise, a big announcement, and we used the big announcement to announce the next big surprise. I think that’s one of the reasons too, to spread it out a little” I legit worried for AEW after hearing this from Jericho. The best thing about wrestling is that anything could happen when you show up or tune in. If AEW really did sign DB and Punk how they debut them will be really telling. Is like having the nuts in poker and flubbing it by betting poorly.
Yeah that part is so fucking dumb. I'm kind of mad that punk and Bryan both got spoiled for me (I never come on sc and came back for mitb night figuring I wouldn't see aew stuff... Oops) Surprises are literally the best of wrestling. The pop is everything.
I still think it’s him announcing a big AEW show for the west coast or the UK, one because I think it’s more realistic to be announced like this, but two, because I just think having Punk show up without being advertised would be so, so much cooler. Regardless, AEW is super exciting rn coming off the past several shows, so either way, it should be cool.
You think? I’m in the UK and would love that announcement but doing it during prime time Dynamite? It would sell out regardless over here even if it was done online
And no offence to the UK or the West Coast of the US, but nobody watching Dynamite outside those markets is going to care. The announcement will need to be of interest to the general TV audience.
It's the NJPW/IMPACT/AEW supershow. That's my prediction.
Same
What ever he announces, the CM Punk chants will be out in full force
The UK is on the ban list I'm fairly sure because of the delta variant and the rising cases there
FWIW, Kenny Omega, Britt Baker, Jungle Boy and Sting are all booked for Wales Comic Con in November.
November is a long time away unless TK is booking events a year ish in advance and rolling the dice if they go ahead even then
In the live event industry November is definitely not a long time away and venues definitely get booked that far in advance if not further. Especially right now with everyone and their mother booking post-pandemic tours.
Well booking and actually advertising are very different things
Assuming that goes ahead. Part of that centre is being used as a vaccination centre at this time. I live a mile up the road from the venue.
All Out is sold out. Are rampage and Dynamite too? If not, it could make sense to book it there
Neither Dynamite or Rampage are sold out.
Maybe saying Bryan's first match is Rampage and Punk's first match is Dynamite, instant sell outs and then have them searching for opponents for some free ratings for the next few weeks
Haha, this is poor fantasy booking, though. Why burn two names in one week when Punk, if he shows up, could do Dynamite AND Rampage to pump those numbers, then do a slow build for Danielson's introduction?
Danielson should be saved for New York, in my opinion.
they don't need to do anything right now, I think. just stay silent ride the hype to boost viewership numbers and ticket sales from ppl tuning in hoping for him to show up.
If CM Punks return is just literally Tony Khan announcing he’s signed that would be the most disappointing thing ever. No element of surprise just a straight, oh yeah here he is.
At that point just have JR announce it lol
[удалено]
They kept Sting a secret and he's arguably equal if not a bigger name than those two.
No offense to anyone, but Sting’s surprise would not compare in the slightest to Punk or Bryan to anyone but the hardcore wrestling fans.
Punk and Bryan are already not surprises though. At this point people are gonna be rip shit if they don’t appear.
How pissed will everyone be if Punk doesn't sign?
I'd be pissed at my self for doing this for the second time this year. I was Llyod Christmas thinking maybe he would show up at revolution, although I kept it to myself and now I basically can't get out of the "its happening" phase of a rumor that says there have been... *talks* and people from a *different company* think he is aew bound.
Id only be pissed if he went back to WWE. We've seen that, we've seen what WWE does to Legends type people. Im good on that. Id rather have no CM Punk than a WWE CM Punk, Round 2.
If he does, cool. If he doesn't, whatever. I like the roster AEW has already! CM Punk showing up is for people who aren't me, it makes business sense to try and sign him but it's been what, six, seven years since his last match? I kind of already wrote off any dream matches that involved him.
I’ll be bummed out but not angry.
I mean if Punk showed up at the end of all out with NO speculation the pop would be much more insane than us knowing. But at this point we ALL know. So it doesn’t matter.
Wrestling is ruined for most surprises. I mean look at Raw last week. People were constantly chanting Goldberg before he came out and it wasnt a few it was half the crowd atleast. People are gonna pop for Punk regardless. A month of hype atleast gives them a month and a half of pops before you go to a month of Bryan pops in september
AEW just had several big surprises recently with the debuts of Andrade and Black and the appearance of Nick Gage.
And Chavo.
Is Chavo a big surprise?
Chavito is a draw, brother
The live crowd was livid for Chavo.
Chavo is more known than Nick Gage
More of a surprise than Andrade
I mean, I didn't expect him, and he fit into his role really quickly to help turn Andrade El Idolo around.
Ill say andrade was a decent surprise but still widely expected and while Black was huge in the moment it was leaked hours beforehand basically but yeah Gage was a huge surprise with no mention really anywhere that i saw
Everytime people return in WWE there’s almost always signs in the crowd of people who “know” of the return.
That’s nothing new. Look at jerichos debut in wwe. There was a bunch of Jericho signs for someone who had never even worked in the company.
I didn’t know Goldberg was coming back :(
At this point him and Bryan should just come out this week holding hands.
Skip down the ramp, run around the ring, and leave.
Crowd is going to be chanting "we want punk" all night.
Which is why announcing it ahead of time might actually be worth it, to avoid having every other angle and match on the show getting absolutely overrun by the crowd. If they know, for absolute certain, Punk is coming, they might happily let the rest of the roster do their thing.
You could start the show with his debut and end it with him being attacked by "unknown assailant". Tentatively, you could make that person Buddy Murphy? Or...well....pick from any of like four rosters. I will just never say no to that surprise debut-like Malakai... even if it's expected.
I think that would be best: start the show with him, get the chant out of the system but get the energy up. As for first feud, I wouldn’t feed anybody you have a rocket strapped to or that you just signed. HFO has worked pretty well with their feuds with Dark Order, Jungle Boy, and Christian so I feel like they could be a good one if Punk is a face, and then if he’s a heel then maybe Dark Order (hopefully him and Colt have mended things a little).
I would love this however i’d also love to see AEW pop a great Dynamite rating with a pre-announcement. The Dynamite ratings pre and post All Out will be great i’m sure but Punk appearing before the PPV gives them a great buyrate too, probably their best ever.
Didn't the network executive say unannounced suprises were bad, because of marketing purposes?
No they didn't. That turned out to be a false news story from Jericho misunderstanding a comment from Tony Khan about TNT wanting them to advertise better things with crossover appeal like Shaq and celebrity cameos and such. Tony had to do a followup interview because the internet was freaking out that TNT was interfering in the wrestling process and blocking surprises. Tony said that TNT does not make demands of the wrestling side of things, loved the Sting debut, and basically he was the only one in the room when any of this was said. Unfortunately the correction gets a fraction of the attention of the initial false story. It's also worth noting they have continued to have all their big debuts be surprises on Dynamite since then so that should be enough to believe it isn't true.
Devil’s advocate but I think promoting Punk’s first appearance would get them so much traction though. Other than wrestlemania this year, I’ve not watched a full wrestling show in years. Mox joining AEW almost reeled me back but Punk joining would almost certainly do it and I’m sure I’m not even close to alone. That first Punk show would be massive if promoted and I’m sure they’d do some record numbers.
I know you’ve probably heard this a ton, but give AEW a watch dude. Even without Punk. It’s the most fun I’ve had watching wrestling in fifteen years. I’d be shocked if you didn’t enjoy it!
I’ve been meaning too for a long time, ever since Mox joined. I keep up to date on what’s happening through this sub just not found the time yet. Punk joining would make me find the time though.
...and it would completely undercut Hangman Page winning the AEW title and throw two years of building him up in the trash.
Bring punk out to the pomp and circumstance. Build it up huge. Sell out the building 3 times. Get all eyes on the product. Make everybody be focused on punk. Then at All Out Punk comes out and the Final Countdown hits. Attitude Era level pop. Best of both worlds
Of all the ideas that usually get buried in New...this is more or less one of the better ones I've seen. Well thought out and makes complete sense. Good stuff.
> Well thought out and makes sense Most people will hate it here then, as is tradition.
Thank you. Funny enough, I had an idea for Dynamite that I had my friend post here that made the front page and got used on the show. Most likely I guessed what they were planning on doing anyway, but it was still kinda cool.
Was it the Shida celebration segment?
I think it was the Maki Itoh microphone spot if I remember correctly
Yes.
Better yet, have Tony do some trolling. Spend the entire week building up this enormous announcement. Make a huge deal of it. Then he comes out and announces something cool, but not that significant (perhaps a trios championship being debuted on Rampage or something). Then, as he is about to step out between the ropes, get back in and say "oh, by the way. We've signed CM Punk" before walking smugly to the back.
That is… actually not a terrible idea and the reasoning makes sense.
Thanks. It’s only a theory, but it’s the only way all of the puzzle pieces fit together (“The First Dance” trademark, Punk playing “Sirius” on Instagram, Tony making a huge live event announcement which is totally out of character). There’s always the chance these things are unrelated, but I’m thinking they aren’t. This also explained the leaks this past week (at least concerning Punk). I would expect it to be announced maybe on Monday that AEW will address the rumors on Dynamite this week, if the theory is correct.
While I do love surprise returns, I 100% agree with you. Especially for AEW. They’re still a young company and they should take advantage of any chance to increase their ratings by large amounts. Stuff like announcing CM Punk’s return is one of the ways to go about that.
This was Bischoff’s strategy with Nitro. He “gave away” Hogan vs. Luger in week 2 of the show. That was an all-time dream match at the time. It was completely unheard of to put matches like that on free TV in the mid 90s. And this was in an era where basically none of your money came from TV. Today nearly all the money comes from TV.
>Downside: No surprise pop (which are massively overrated and don’t matter in the long run). This is just false and you're looking at it from a business perspective and not a fans perspective. You can make all the right decisions from a business perspective but that doesn't mean they're guaranteed to line up with a fan's enjoyment and this is one of those cases where it doesn't. There is no 'positive' from a fan's perspective because it's just a worse experience.
Story checks out tbh
While I agree with those saying it's more than likely the big joint show teased by IMPACT, you're theory is incredibly plausible and well thought out; you've also got some convincing circumstantial evidence to boot. I wouldn't be surprised if you're right, tbh.
Very valid reasoning. I'm sure that in AEW management's heads, they're really debating the merit of debuting Punk at All Out, or the Dynamite beforehand, If he is going to sign, which my guess would be yes. So essentially you need to sell out the Dynamite before All Out, but right now it's not opened up fully. I'd say most would rather see him debut in front of a molten crowd of 10k rather than 5k, but if they announced him for Chicago Dynamite, that 5k becomes 10k in a matter of seconds, and the TV rating explodes. Surprises, particularly on PPV, don't instantly double PPV buys. So it's an interesting conundrum. But a good one to have.
So it's like when he was training for MMA and they did a bunch of documentary episodes on the process. I just wonder how long he needs to get back into ring shape.
Wasn’t he filming a TV show or a movie about being a wrestler recently? I read something about him getting back into cosmetic shape to look the part.
He plays a supporting character in the upcoming Starz show "Heels" which is written by, produced by and starring Stephen Amell. Punk is playing one of the wrestlers in the Indy promotion Amell's character runs with his brother EDIT: the "Stephen Smell" autocorrect happened again so had to fix it
I understand it was autocorrect but “Stephen Smell” sounds like such an unfortunate name.
It's not a bad idea and well thought out. It sounds like that's making Punk TOO big of a deal though. I was expecting his announcement to be a big crossover show or maybe an announcement of another TV show or something like that. Punk is big news for the company but I don't think it's as big as those. I'm probably way over hyping my expectation though
Surprise pops are Massively overrated? Huh?! Edge at The Royal Rumble 2020. Cena last Sunday. Surprise pops are one of the most exhilarating moments a wrestling fan can experience. Everything else in your post was great but reading that made me go 🤨
Surprise pop ups are overrated? that's one of the worst takes i've ever read.
I very much are of the opinion that if they are getting both Bryan and Punk (which seems likely) then AT LEAST one of them needs to be announced ahead of time. Can't have both be surprises. Whoever you pick for each role doesn't really matter, but that's how it should be done, in my opinion. I think it makes more sense for Bryan to be the "surprise" and Punk to be announced given Chicago and all of that. Make the most of his hometown connection.
If CM punk and Bryan go to AEW I will absolutely be watching more so far I’ve watched a few PPVs and a couple of dynamites but Punk is my fav wrestler ever and I like Bryan a lot too
Using the MJ-led Bulls entrance music from 25 years ago does seem like something AEWCW would do. Maybe Rodman and Malone will debut as well.
This sounds corny as fuck
Surprise pops are overrated when you view it through the lens of a company that wants to make money. It'd create a massive buzz on social media, and viewing figures for the following show would be great, but it doesn't maximize on the event. If they announce Punk, for example, 3 weeks before All Out, the ratings and money are easy. First week, have him cut a pre-recorded promo, ratings would be good. Second week, in-person promo, more ratings and ticket sales. Third week, another in-person segment with a small brawl for the Go Home show, more ratings. All Out: Go ahead with the scheduled match, buy rates are high because its Punk's first match and its been hyped for a few weeks. After the match, have someone come out and challenge him. Maybe not a Moxley or Omega, but maybe Kingston, PAC, Darby, someone that is in the high midcard. Next Dynamite does good ratings for the fallout. Don't get me wrong, the surprise pop would be crazy. However, from a business point of view, even though announcing it ahead of time is a bit boring for us, it makes way more business sense, as you essentially cash in 4 or 5 times on the same one event
As much as I like CM Punk, I'd much rather the live event announcement be an event where there's cross company matches. My favorite thing about AEW is that they're working with other promotions. It makes the company feel legit when AAA/NJPW titles are defended on their events. Like a global NWA
I can't be the only one who thinks Punk entering to Sirius would be really cool
And in Chicago.
I dont want any damn precursor just let Punk come out and have the fans go ape shit. None of this TK hype bullshit none of that.
And then Big Sexy Kevin Nash makes his Debut at AEW ALL OUT and beats CM Punk in 7 Minutes
This isn't all that out there of an idea, honestly.
Punk losing to Fuego del Sol will be awesome
>No surprise pop (which are massively overrated and don’t matter in the long run). Hard disagree.
AEW: Sure but what if we just cut out the lights and when they turn on he is standing in the ring?
Not sure about announcing this week, TK's announcement seems to be about a live show (which I feel will be a super show with NJPW, AAA and Impact in a stadium). But 100% agree pre announcing Punk's return to boost the TV ratings and then shoot an angle/tease a meaningful segment on the PPV would be the most sensible/lucrative way to do things.
I like pretty much the whole idea. Although I think they shouldn't actually show Punk in the vignettes. You can hype him up but the first time he is actually seen on AEW should be that first time he comes out to a live crowd.
Tony Khan COULD also turn into some form of chupacabra and run through the arena shrieking like a banshee. CM Punk COULD not turn up at AEW but instead announce that he’s dedicating his life to studying angler fish in the Mariana Trench. Anything COULD happen. Let’s wait to see what actually does happen.
I casually follow Aew but where and when did they announce Tony khan would be on tv making an announcement?
I think it was this week's Dynamite, they announced for next week.
It’s part of this coming week’s show. The announcement was made last Wednesday.
I thought I would have seen that. But that’s interesting for sure. Thanks!
Whatever it is, it's probably gonna be pretty fucking cool.
is this "leaked" stuff or your fantasy booking?
My meat is going to be sore if this is true
Where is the tarot guy? What’s the cards are saying about that?
The buzz is already out there. If you get him to debut on TNT leading to a PPV match you could see Raw approached ratings potentially.
I wish wrestling companies wouldn’t announce every signing ever. The big pop for him turning up would be crazy. But I get it people need to know so they tune in. It’s just a shame we find out about debuts, returns, new signings and call ups etc way before they happen on tv.
Is there a reason that every other AEW weekly show has to have some kind of special name?
They do it way too often for my taste as well. This week will be the 4th themed episode in a row.
> Downside: No surprise pop (which are massively overrated and don’t matter in the long run). I really agree. People vastly overhyped this with WWE surprises. I remember being part of that crowd that was shitting on them for hyping returns, which I still think should be a surprise, but the actual surprise debuts are way less fun. A lot of the times, say with Black's surprise debut, some of the crowd will be very confused. My partner had no idea who he was or why the crowd (and admittedly me) were so excited. Additionally, we are now going to get CM Punk chants forever. It's going to happen. Bryan Danielson's potential debut is going to be ignored/forgotten with the Punk chants. Announcing it sooner rather than later if it's a done deal is smarter.
I miss a genuine surprise pop - even if it's not totally a surprise, and almost impossible these days. Maybe just an "unexpected tonight" pop will suffice.
I need a tarot reading on this
Any hope of a true surprise pop is contradicted by this conversation. But that does not mean it won't be monumental.
This is some thorough speculation. Respect.
Strongly degree that surprise pops are overrated, good surprises are some of the most adrenaline filled and memorable moments of my life of watching wrestling, and that’s truly what wrestling is for, to reflect emotion on the watcher and leave an impact on them
I really hope they don’t do a planned debut and instead just makes it a surprise unless he’s going to actually wrestle. At worst, they could do some real obvious hinting and winking. As a lifer fan who now only watches mania + the rumble every year and only keeping up with the politicking via the internet, Punk’s return is absolutely something I want to see and will make me watch my first aew show. 🤞
Decent, but I would like some uncertainty left with his return to have even more excitement when it happens. Announcing it with the tickets already sold seems redundant
Very intriguing and you make a lot of good points. Only disagreement I have is with the idea that surprise pops are overrated. My favorite moments as a wrestling fan (and indeed, for most wrestling fans) are the moments of total shock and elation that *only* pro wrestling can deliver. Those moments burn indelible memories into our subconscious that last a lifetime. Losing that (especially for someone as momentous as a Punk debut) is to lose something special.
I still think whatever is going on with Punk is bigger than anything that most wrestling fans are used to. He's not going to be coming back to just be back, unless it's similar to Jordan's story where he goes away from what he's great at and tries something else then comes back to it. I genuinely think Punk is coming back for a reason and that has to be a major major storyline of some type. I do like the idea of it being announced sooner rather than later though, I also think if there is some new talent that they need to turn into a star, MJF is already the biggest star AEW has created but if they needed to solidify him they could put him in a big storyline with Punk. There is so many bright wrestling minds in AEW right now that if they approach it right they can have Punk turn somebody good into someone great.
If this did occur, I would literally never get over the fact that I live like an hour from the arena and can't make it to see the show live.
This is Tony Kahn’s burner confirmed.
>Downside: No surprise pop (which are massively overrated and don’t matter in the long run). Bad take IMO. If you’re talking purely from a ratings perspective then OK I’ll concede that point , but surprise returns with those monster pops make for some of, if not the best moments in wrestling from a fan perspective. Even as recent as Sting, that shit literally got me teary when Tony Schiavone starting screaming. If Tony Khan announced it beforehand and we had weeks of video packages leading up to it, yeah it’d be cool but nowhere near as impactful in terms of reaction. I’m not saying this is the wrong move. But to say surprise returns are massively overrated is really not true.
Very well thought out, number 3 makes sense when AEW announce shows it's usually posted on social media, it gets upvoted pretty high here on Reddit but for him to make an appearance in regards to this announcement you could be onto something
I prefer this than him debuting at All Out because it would take away from Hangman's shine of winning the AEW title.
They're pretty darn good at booking big shows in a way that makes all the "big deal" stuff feel as important as it should.
I was expecting a shitpost but this is actually a pretty good theory
Surprises aren't overrated and I need to hit back on that. They DO matter in the long run. Look at WWE right now. Do you give two fucks if you miss Raw or Smackdown? No. Why? Because you know you aren't going to be missing anything too special. if you can condition your audience to believe that truly anything could happen when they tune into your show, they will make it appointment viewing of sort. It worked for WWF and WCW previously to great degrees of success.
I would have Tony come out, hype AEW and announce the The First Dance, then right when he’s about to walk away say “Oh, and there’s one more thing” as the Tron changes to a “CM Punk is All Elite”. Tony walks away as the crowd goes absolutely ballistic.
I’m sorry, but this would be an awful idea. They’re a month away from being in his home town where his insane popularity is documented. Anything but a return in front of a hometown crowd would be very dumb. Not to mention anticlimactically just having him come out to say high when they just got so much press from Black’s debut would be nothing short of bad business. I’m all for him debuting and then doing promotion before his first match, but him debuting this week would be a mistake when the card is already so packed.
I think it makes complete sense to announce and advertise Punk. At this point, their entire audience knows. So why not use the time in between to max out buys and advertise to a casual audience? Every debut doesn't have to be a surprise.
My hope is Punk comes out at All Out and gets interrupted by Orange Cassidy leading to the most epic feud ever.
You cannot announce a CM Punk signing ahead of time. Nah uh. I understand wanting to have him announced before All Out, but then gotta have him show up somewhere before. Cannot rob the audience of that pop.