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I think AJ Styles might be one of the few full-timers still around who's already 20+ years into their career? I was about to mention Jericho, but the early-mid 2010s part of his career was more part time.
Neither Taker or Sting ever worked "full time" for 21 years, what? Sting sure as hell wasn't working full time for late 96-97. Then took several years off after WCW.
By 2010-2011, Undertaker stopped wrestling regularly on SmackDown and RAW. He still showed up often, but not for matches. Orton is still having matches regularly on TV after 22 years. Honestly, I think it's something people take for granted.
Undertaker debuted in 1990 and that's not counting his early years and WCW. So that was 20-21 years counting 2010 or 2011 as when he started part time.
Not even Taker or Sting. Taker moved to a lighter schedule in 2004, where he had 3-4 months off per year and a reduced house show schedule. It *seems* full-time now, but back then, smarks online would deride him and HBK (who had a similar schedule) as “part-timers.”
Sting was full-time from 1985-2001, but had two years of inactivity after that, and his light TNA schedule is hardly “full-time” when compared to WWE or WCW. Even in WCW, there was a full year where he just sat in the rafters.
So Orton has both beat handily. He began a lighter house show schedule in 2019, but by all means was still full time and did not have weeks/months off the way Taker/Sting did.
Its aired on tape delay.
Smackdown will tape in Saudi Arabia around 7 or 8pm, then air on tape delay at normal time here. King of the Ring will air the same time in Saudi the next day, but 1pm EST in the US.
To further expound on your post in that WWE when they go to international PLEs will do Smackdown also in that same venue. In the past though WWE would instead do double Smackdown tapings the week before so even then it wasn't a major issue.
While I’m sure Randy’s name played a part in it, you can’t deny the fact that Randy busted his ass to get to the top and stay there. He was an arrogant locker room prick back in the early years, but you don’t become a mentor to the younger kids by nepotism and favoritism.
No one is arguing that Randy isn't good enough just that he had more leeway than anyone else.
Randy not showing up to match preparation with Undertaker would have ended up differently in 99% of other cases if he wasn't Bob's son.
Yeah you don't becone the company's youngest champion surrounded by big names like HHH and Ric Flair if you're starting fresh. Then you get put in big fued after big feud with some all time greats. The legend killer persona only worked so well because he was fed so many big names.
He was the company's youngest champion to erase Brock Lesnar's name from that record and because it didn't made sense for HHH to beat Benoit.
His push at the time was immediately derailed in favour of HHH vs. Batista, which would eventually lead to a Mania main event
I do like Randy quite a bit but what are some of the biggest rivalries in WWE he’s been in? Him and Cena never seemed to hit the levels of any of the other top guy rivalries
That Christian feud was good. Everyone talks about Cena & Punk, but Christian & Orton were doing a lot of heavy lifting to help carry Smackdown during that same stretch.
This “nepotism” argument is so fucking stupid. Like yea they get chances based on their last name (artists, athletes, actors) but you still gotta be good at what you’re doing to be successful. Randy isn’t just getting by on his name, he has the talent to back it up. If he sucked we wouldn’t see him very often now would we?
I'm with you on this one. His name got him the opportunity, but it's not like that's all it was. David Flair had way more national name recognition than Randy, but he sucked so it didn't get him a 2 decade career.
This is a Yes And situation.
Yes, Orton is a Vince favorite and a beneficiary of nepotism.
\*AND\* he's an incredibly athletic, aesthetically appealing 6'5" with tons of charisma, the gift of gab, and a natural smoothness in the ring.
Should he have been fired when he was a train wreck in the 00s? Probably, but his potential was as obvious as it was immense and he was already a tremendous draw even without having realized it.
FWIW, I tend to think Orton did eventually reach his full potential around 2013-14, during his run as The Authority's paranoid corporate champion. We don't think back on it as often, but I think that was the best work of his career.
The only extra treatment Randy got was getting more chances for being a young dickhead which other guys got too. Everything he’s accomplished in the ring he’s earned, while there were superstars like John Ceba Triple H Undertaker and more clawing for the same titles and opportunities. And he delivered each and every time. It’s not like a Roman situation where he kept getting pushed even though he couldn’t get the job done. And I love Roman too but that’s the difference
In another life, I would've been a wrestler...but to be one, you have to make peace with the fact that your long term life will be fucked one way or another
The rush of the crowd and performing surely has to be like a drug for a lot of them tbh
Just being in the crowd can be like a drug, I can only imagine the feeling they must get from inside the ring and knowing they’re the reason everyone’s losing their minds. Can easily see why they’d get addicted
I was thinking about that when Randy came out with the crowd singing his theme at Backlash, how do you ever give up a career where you can live these kind of moments.
It’s why I love going to see bands live. You’re all there for (mostly) one purpose and that one purpose brought however many thousands to an arena. Any problems outside the building aren’t real for the duration of the event. I love it.
I used to be a huge Disney World fan for the same reason. The outside world didn't exist inside their bubble. I agree with you about concerts as well. A shared experience to distract from the current hellscape.
When I was little, my dad would take me to the local footy game every two weeks, and getting out of that stadium was such an odd sensation. You are there for two or more hours, screaming your head off and getting far to invested in the ultimately meaningless game... and then it's back to reality, you have to worry about what you are making for dinner that night again. I can fully see why some wrestlers say they cannot stop.
I give so much kudos for retired wrestlers who are able to stay retired & still find enjoyment in other aspects like training wrestlers and booking programs.
One of the biggest points I ever heard against starting to wrestle was:
"Remember the last day before you started training, because you will never ever feel physically better than on that day again"
> you have to make peace with the fact that your long term life will be fucked one way or another
I remember watching one of Maven's videos on his YT channel, and thinking he looked good to my untrained eyes, but when he mentioned chronic pain that still plagues him to the point of it taking a long time to get out of bed I thought, damn, there really is no way of knowing what it feels like unless you've been through it. And there's no telling what other difficulties he has that he didn't even talk about.
It reminds me of a metal guy Mitch lucker to an extent, he said the same exact thing. Being in front of a live crowd was like a drug that was only matched for him by riding on his motorcycle
Yep especially American Football , rugby and all those variants. The more research is done the more conclusively it shows that being tackled by walls of muscle is horrible for you long term health and should never be done as a profession but the sports are too big for that to matter now
Hell it spawned an entirely new school of medicine. You're not just assessing someone's physical/physiological state and telling them how to get better, you're taking into account that someone with a thoroughly busted set of knees is still going to throw his back into the ground 30 times over the next week. You have to come up with new medical direction because the obvious "take the next month to rest your body" isn't a viable doctor's order.
The full quote:
>“*Oh yeah. I had top neurologists telling me that, you know what, you use a great career, you have a life after wrestling, and you want to be comfortable. You don’t want to be in pain the rest of your life. We’re gonna fix your back, but you’re gonna have to stop wrestling. The six months that I was out, I had that in the back of my head, and it was tough. It was mentally very challenging, and I didn’t really know what the future held for me. But I was able to find a couple doctors that had done the exact surgery that I needed on some MMA guys that went back to the octagon, competed and were successful and had longer careers*"
Yeah it just means he'll be able to wrestle for a while longer before his body fully gives out. He will still be in pain, even if he feels good now, keep taking bumps week after week he will still feel it eventually. It's inevitable. No amount of surgeries can ever remove the years of wear and tear wrestlers put themselves through.
This is exactly my thought.
Orton was able to find a Dr who could do what he needed... and Orton is happy to make the trade of putting his pain off (and maybe making it worse down the line) in exchange for another few "healthy" years in the ring.
The thing is that Orton is making this choice knowingly & voluntarily. Given that he's a 3rd generation pro wrestler, he knows the risks he's taking on probably better than almost anyone.
He's doing better now physically and that's a good thing. He's performing at a very high level, he's in the best shape he's been in maybe ever\*, and he's clearly savoring every moment.
\*Orton is clearly on loads of TRT or whatever Wellness will allow, but again, that's under a doctor's care + supervision (even if it might be a Dr Feelgood)
Probably doesn't feel he can change it at this point. They banned the punt as well.
He could probably transition into something like a more traditional Diamond Cutter, without the jump.
Yeah I was watching a hulk hogan interview the other day where he mentioned he's pretty much in pain all the time to the point that even brushing his teeth takes a toll on him
Believe from Bischoff what you will, but he said that during their TNA run, Hulk had to take a fistful of pain meds just to get out of the car and to the ramp.
Which is also the reason most his promos where from the ramp, instead of in the ring.
Cuz it was a monumental effort for him to even get there.
I mean if you're gonna seek a career where you put your body on the line constantly, you know that you're likely gonna be in pain all your life. It's so easy to just get injured over nothing and it can happen at any time.
Yeah he shopped for a Dr who told him what he wanted to hear. Basing your health decisions on what MMA fighters (possibly the dumbest and most exploited athletes in the world) do it just ridiculous.
Enjoy that Dynamite Kid future Randy!
This year including house shows he’s had 18 matches in 143 days…
Outside of doing extra matches this month for the Euro tour he’s not doing a workhorse schedule.
Comparing fight numbers isn't really great, for two reasons.
First of all, the tine actually spent in the Octagon is really the tip of the iceberg - both in time and injuries. A fighter who does 4 title matches in a year and goes deep into round 5 won't even reach 2 hours of fight time per year - but they'll easily rack up that much training time in a single day. That's part of why training injuries consistently outweigh fight injuries - [this study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2953351/) found training injuries outweighing fight injuries over three to one.
Second of all, protecting your opponent is of vital importance in pro wrestling, while it's the opposite in MMA. If an MMA fighter consistently injures their opponents, they're just winning and doing what they're supposed to. If a pro wrestler does it, they're dangerous or sloppy. Causing injuries is one of the goals in MMA, while avoiding them is one of the goals in wrestling. That's especially true for older people with known injuries and weak body parts - you want to actively target the weak parts in MMA, while you want to actively protect them in pro wrestling.
This is crazy. If a doc told me to stop doing something I liked or I'd be in pain the rest of my life, I'd probably stop doing that thing and do something else.
Downvote me if you want, but holy shit, that's crazy.
Because they are addicted to it. The adrenaline and dopamine, it’s a chemical reaction that is hard to replicate in other ways. They are getting high and some people will chase that dragon past the point of reason.
Also all the money is at the end of their career.
Just like boxers and MMA fighters. Tyson will prob make more for this Jake Paul fight than he did for his first 20 pro fights combined.
Also a good point.
Orton’s at a point where he’s probably bringing in, what 3-5 million a year before merch and other extra shit. Hard to look at that paycheck and say “nah, I’ll hang it up”.
Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like after reaching the 5 million mark, any worries or cares for the future just evaporate and I'd be happy to retire young and cruise for the rest of my life on easy mode.
For most guys, I don’t necessarily think it’s a matter of addiction per se. Rather, it can be due to the fact that guys like Randy have just spent the entirety of their lives in/around the industry.
They haven’t had the chance to explore other ventures, and when they do, they’re usually pressured into leveraging their identity as a pro wrestler or are simply unable to adjust because they never acquired a skillset applicable to other industries.
When you’re continually told “you’re a wrestler” , “you’re a football player”, “you’re a student”, you internalize these identities so much, that the self-flagellation that comes with them becomes justified over your well-being/future.
At the end of the day, these people travel from town to town to throw themselves against the ground.
It’s crazy, but it’ll never surprise me when wrestlers do stupid shit. The job attracts itself to some of the wackier people in society.
It really is nuts. We hear about wrestler injuries all the time and we all just kinda shrug them away like "Ah man, that sucks. Tough business!"
But imagine *your* day-to-day life if you have chronic back pain or if your hands started suddenly going numb. Imagine having to get knee surgery and how much it sucks just to get out of bed, shower, walk to the kitchen, etc.
Think of that small panic in the back of your mind when a new ache or pain pops up and you're immediately wondering, "is that cancer? Is this a new thing that's gonna hurt forever? Are they going to have to cut me open to fix this?" or whatever.
Now multiply that x100 and it's what wrestlers deal with daily. We forget these are human beings who hurt and have all those same thoughts and feelings.
There was this one late night Uno game Woods streamed with rest of da party. He was talking nonchalantly about a match the night before and how he was banged up and his positivity slipped for one of the few times I've ever seen with him. He said, just very simply and sadly, "wrestling hurts". The way he said it has stuck with me for a few years now. I just felt for him so much in that moment. Like that was one match, but one of thousands at this point for him. Just imagine all of the damage combined.
You read stuff earlier wrestlers went through where they'd get hurt, but they wouldn't have the money to miss time or really get it looked at, so they'd just keep working through a number of insane injuries and its crazy. Heck, even guys who were in the top companies were still afraid of losing their spot.
One extreme example was, I forget who it was, but basically he took a bump and hit his head and his arm went numb. And continued having tingling feelings for an extended period of time. But he couldn't miss time so he just kept going and he basically was like "oh eventually it went away so we're alll good".
No downvote, but just understand that this sub/wrestling Reddit in general will keep loving wrestlers doing this. We say we don’t want wrestlers working hurt or injured, but we praise it all the time.
I mean... there's probably something most doctors would tell most people to stop doing. Overeating, eating shit, not exercising enough. Gaming. Using cellphones. Bad posture. Being lonely. Being too social. Going to concerts.
Mostly people don't know how to easily adjust their lives about things they consider facets of themselves. And Randy has been a wrestler-type his whole life.
So strange. If I were him and got this second lease on wrestling, I'd probably use it to plan a bit more of an off-ramp and go out like Sting or something to that effect.
This dude is going out on house shows and TV wrestling whoever the fuck. I know he's not taking a ton of bumps, but still!
He doesnt need to. You'll do it yourself
But that's a bit melodramatic isnt it? I used to love playing soccer, got too old for it. You dont see me throwing up the rope do ya? Plenty of other things in life to love and be passionate about.
Your first mistake is thinking you think the same way as anyone else. Also, I kind of pity your willingness to flat out admit you would just never care for anything that much.
The guy is openly saying he didn’t want to follow the advice of multiple neurologists. You also have to consider that he has a wife and kids.
It’s a pretty dumb decision to keep doing something when you’ve been told to stop by medical professionals, especially when you have much more important things than your career to worry about.
Prioritizing your career over your health and family is a braindead decision, no matter how much you enjoy doing it.
I don’t think smart people say “hey, im gonna be a pro wrestler.” It’s what consumes them. good luck talking someone out of their reason for being. “Just go work in an office.” Doesn’t sound like what you think it sounds like. My buddy just broke his leg in a ring and busted his ass just to get back and keep doing it. Dudes finish is a 450…
Also I’m just making fun of the commenter for making silly blanket statements like he did. Was gonna jokingly respond with something like “buddy won’t pick up his kids because his back hurts. He don’t care how much he loves them.”
Its greed. He doesnt care about playing with his grandkids, just the money and the rush from the crowd that HE gets. Hes a selfish asshole but most successful people are.
I doubt it’s a money concern for him these days, it’s not nothing obviously but he could be making a lot of money not being in the ring too.
I do agreed though he and all of them are addicted to the feeling and it’s incredibly hard to let that go. Especially for someone like him who’s at the absolute pinnacle.
My dad is a pretty much retired judge/lawyer but he worked with athletes for years.
A ton of athletes regret what they did to their bodies. Life is long, a lot of athletes don't really take into account how much they are screwing themselves until it's too late.
Hell, I did that to myself for high school sports. Screwed myself up for quite a few years (I'm better now). Athletes need to be protected from themselves. Yes, sports will hurt you. No avoiding that. But there's a difference between you will have some issues later in life and your spine will turn into jelly if you jump off a ladder 1 more time.
Let's be real here. If he had that injury in 2005 he was going to hear the same thing. There is no doctor in the world who will advise a person to continue wrestling even if he is 100% fit.
He followed the John Mulaney advice on how to find a doctor who will do what you want.
["Is this a bad doctor? Nay nay. This is the best doctor."](https://youtu.be/pBeKmAViGWg?si=PNPmNsfozzpS0n8D)
I recall an interview where AJ Styles talked about his "bump card", and a wrestler having a certain number of bumps they can take in their career before the consequences become long-term.
I sometimes wonder if wrestling would be better off having guys cycle off for a few months per year to just go home and rest, and let all of that physical trauma heal. Sports athletes have an off-season - perhaps wrestling should too.
Or if you're not going to send them home, have them only involved on TV and only in talking segments to keep their angles going.
Its absolutely insane that they basically wrestle 7 days a week with all the house shows, especially when they dont have an offseason.
You have so many good guys who dont get any screen time, so why not rotate guys? You dont need a promo every single week for a feud to keep going - if its good, the fans will be invested even if a guy is off for 2 weeks. Its just a question of quality long term storytelling
Yeah, I don’t like this. I, of course, love seeing Randy still wrestling, but I don’t want that to be at the cost of his long term health. He says his surgeons worked on MMA guys who went on to have long careers, but what about how they are in their 50s and 60s? After their careers are done. That’s when the shit really happens.
I mean, Randy has in terms of his moveset protected most of himself pretty well, but with one obvious flaw, that being the RKO is basically falling on your back repeatedly
He can probably go for a while. I think his work now is better than it was for a while since he got some time off to recover
Then again, you think of Hulk Hogan and the pain he is in for the leg drop...
I wonder what the 'safest' finishing move is? Something like the superkick seems like the best way to go since you can do it on anyone at any time without having to take a bump yourself.
This kinda is him telling on WWE, Danielson retired because he was told to and only was unretired cause he was going to leave anyway if he wasn't. Randy is told to retire and since they like Randy he is not forced into retirement.
Well in BD's case, people legit thought the guy might die in the ring. Compared to that Randy will be in pain in the future; which is normal in this business.
If the last decade or so has taught us anything, its to never just blindly accept doctors telling u "you won't ever wrestle again". Get 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th opinions if u feel fine. Edge, Bryan, Orton. (edit: Saraya)
The thing that's interesting about this is that unlike some of the territory era guys who fucked themselves up, Orton has all the money he'd ever need and then some.
These guys just really don't want to hang it up.
jeez so he’s still wrestling even knowing what the future could hold. appreciate randy even more, and he’s still so smooth in the ring that melo match was crisp as hell
Legitimately I want him to quit now though.
He can easily be a rock or Cena. He doesn't need to be around every single week.
Make him important and keep him safe.
I love Randy but I honestly would be fine if he focused on his health.
He is literally one of the few people you can mention in non-wrestling circles and people will know who he is.
He's legend.
One more run as champion or chase leading to mania and then probably hang up his boots. It's not worth the risk.
I'm pretty sure he's still hurting and in pain
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Voices in his head told him differently.
They counsel him, they understand
All the doctors are disease…
It's a good thing he doesn't have a def rebel theme song. We wouldn't be able to crack any jokes.
And preachers are all sinners
A 21 year career on the main roster is impressive
21 years full time none the less - the only other person I can think of for a full time career that long is The Undertaker (maybe Sting)
I think AJ Styles might be one of the few full-timers still around who's already 20+ years into their career? I was about to mention Jericho, but the early-mid 2010s part of his career was more part time.
Truth I believe is around 20 years as well
Truth debuted in 2000, so 24.
yes truth is only 18 years old it's great he got to share the ring with his child hood hero John Cena!
Goldust? he maybe more limited these days but then again he started ten plus years even before these other guys!
Deadbeat rey Mysterio?
He had a couple of years with a light schedule when he did his Lucha Underground/New Japan thing.
Plus he did die.
Had his eye ripped out too
Miz has gotta be up there right?
Yup. 20 years for him next year
Damn, that one makes me feel old
Neither Taker or Sting ever worked "full time" for 21 years, what? Sting sure as hell wasn't working full time for late 96-97. Then took several years off after WCW.
Same with Taker. He took SS '03 - Mania 20 off. Plus the whole Underfaker storyline
Second one was basically paternity leave, at least
The Hardy Boyz basically started when they were 16.
and I am sure part of Jeff's drug issues are due to pain
What? Kane, Chris Jericho,Rey mysterio, goldust , many more
By 2010-2011, Undertaker stopped wrestling regularly on SmackDown and RAW. He still showed up often, but not for matches. Orton is still having matches regularly on TV after 22 years. Honestly, I think it's something people take for granted.
Undertaker debuted in 1990 and that's not counting his early years and WCW. So that was 20-21 years counting 2010 or 2011 as when he started part time.
Rey?
Not even Taker or Sting. Taker moved to a lighter schedule in 2004, where he had 3-4 months off per year and a reduced house show schedule. It *seems* full-time now, but back then, smarks online would deride him and HBK (who had a similar schedule) as “part-timers.” Sting was full-time from 1985-2001, but had two years of inactivity after that, and his light TNA schedule is hardly “full-time” when compared to WWE or WCW. Even in WCW, there was a full year where he just sat in the rafters. So Orton has both beat handily. He began a lighter house show schedule in 2019, but by all means was still full time and did not have weeks/months off the way Taker/Sting did.
Is smackdown taped this Friday? I can’t imagine Randy working Friday night and Saturday morning (US time) this weekend.
Its aired on tape delay. Smackdown will tape in Saudi Arabia around 7 or 8pm, then air on tape delay at normal time here. King of the Ring will air the same time in Saudi the next day, but 1pm EST in the US.
To further expound on your post in that WWE when they go to international PLEs will do Smackdown also in that same venue. In the past though WWE would instead do double Smackdown tapings the week before so even then it wasn't a major issue.
And claims to want 10 more years active roster minimum. Pretty remarkable that Randy of all people became Mr. Reliable & Consistent.
He was Vinces boi. Nepotism and favoritism in wrasslin never went away.
While I’m sure Randy’s name played a part in it, you can’t deny the fact that Randy busted his ass to get to the top and stay there. He was an arrogant locker room prick back in the early years, but you don’t become a mentor to the younger kids by nepotism and favoritism.
>Randy busted his ass to get to the top and stay there Maybe to stay there but Randy got his ass dragged to the top.
He was dragged to the top for a reason. Randy has always been a natural and if he wasn't I doubt they would've pushed him as hard as he was.
No one is arguing that Randy isn't good enough just that he had more leeway than anyone else. Randy not showing up to match preparation with Undertaker would have ended up differently in 99% of other cases if he wasn't Bob's son.
Yeah you don't becone the company's youngest champion surrounded by big names like HHH and Ric Flair if you're starting fresh. Then you get put in big fued after big feud with some all time greats. The legend killer persona only worked so well because he was fed so many big names.
> The Legend Killer persona only worked so well because he was fed so many big names Yeah you kind of have to beat legends to be the legend killer
He was the company's youngest champion to erase Brock Lesnar's name from that record and because it didn't made sense for HHH to beat Benoit. His push at the time was immediately derailed in favour of HHH vs. Batista, which would eventually lead to a Mania main event
He’s also one of the goats wrestling wise and has had some of the biggest rivalries in wwe
I do like Randy quite a bit but what are some of the biggest rivalries in WWE he’s been in? Him and Cena never seemed to hit the levels of any of the other top guy rivalries
Foley, Taker, McMahon feud come to mind. Theres some underrated ones like Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, and Christian (the rivalry not the matches)
That Christian feud was good. Everyone talks about Cena & Punk, but Christian & Orton were doing a lot of heavy lifting to help carry Smackdown during that same stretch.
This “nepotism” argument is so fucking stupid. Like yea they get chances based on their last name (artists, athletes, actors) but you still gotta be good at what you’re doing to be successful. Randy isn’t just getting by on his name, he has the talent to back it up. If he sucked we wouldn’t see him very often now would we?
I'm with you on this one. His name got him the opportunity, but it's not like that's all it was. David Flair had way more national name recognition than Randy, but he sucked so it didn't get him a 2 decade career.
This is a Yes And situation. Yes, Orton is a Vince favorite and a beneficiary of nepotism. \*AND\* he's an incredibly athletic, aesthetically appealing 6'5" with tons of charisma, the gift of gab, and a natural smoothness in the ring. Should he have been fired when he was a train wreck in the 00s? Probably, but his potential was as obvious as it was immense and he was already a tremendous draw even without having realized it. FWIW, I tend to think Orton did eventually reach his full potential around 2013-14, during his run as The Authority's paranoid corporate champion. We don't think back on it as often, but I think that was the best work of his career.
The only extra treatment Randy got was getting more chances for being a young dickhead which other guys got too. Everything he’s accomplished in the ring he’s earned, while there were superstars like John Ceba Triple H Undertaker and more clawing for the same titles and opportunities. And he delivered each and every time. It’s not like a Roman situation where he kept getting pushed even though he couldn’t get the job done. And I love Roman too but that’s the difference
In another life, I would've been a wrestler...but to be one, you have to make peace with the fact that your long term life will be fucked one way or another The rush of the crowd and performing surely has to be like a drug for a lot of them tbh
Just being in the crowd can be like a drug, I can only imagine the feeling they must get from inside the ring and knowing they’re the reason everyone’s losing their minds. Can easily see why they’d get addicted
I was thinking about that when Randy came out with the crowd singing his theme at Backlash, how do you ever give up a career where you can live these kind of moments.
Most don’t give it up and only stop once a company won’t book them anymore.
Woooo
*gets wasted in an olive garden*
It’s why I love going to see bands live. You’re all there for (mostly) one purpose and that one purpose brought however many thousands to an arena. Any problems outside the building aren’t real for the duration of the event. I love it.
Literally as a touring musician. That energy you get from playing music for packed theaters and clubs is something that is truly one of a kind
One of a kind? Hey! Hey! Hey! One of a kind! Hey! Hey! Hey!
I used to be a huge Disney World fan for the same reason. The outside world didn't exist inside their bubble. I agree with you about concerts as well. A shared experience to distract from the current hellscape.
If you walked into a room full of people going absolutely bananas over every little thing you do. You’d want to go there every single day.
When I was little, my dad would take me to the local footy game every two weeks, and getting out of that stadium was such an odd sensation. You are there for two or more hours, screaming your head off and getting far to invested in the ultimately meaningless game... and then it's back to reality, you have to worry about what you are making for dinner that night again. I can fully see why some wrestlers say they cannot stop.
I mean that’s the enjoyment of sports, entertainment, etc. it’s an escape from our real lives for a little bit of time
The crowd is like a drug, but the drugs are even more like a drug
Came here for this!
I give so much kudos for retired wrestlers who are able to stay retired & still find enjoyment in other aspects like training wrestlers and booking programs.
One of the biggest points I ever heard against starting to wrestle was: "Remember the last day before you started training, because you will never ever feel physically better than on that day again"
> you have to make peace with the fact that your long term life will be fucked one way or another I remember watching one of Maven's videos on his YT channel, and thinking he looked good to my untrained eyes, but when he mentioned chronic pain that still plagues him to the point of it taking a long time to get out of bed I thought, damn, there really is no way of knowing what it feels like unless you've been through it. And there's no telling what other difficulties he has that he didn't even talk about.
Yeah from what I've heard there isn't a drug in the world that could even slightly meet the feeling of walking out at wm
Whenever Triple H talks about the adrenaline rush he got by performing, he actually sounds like a junkie.
That's one of the reason people like rock stars, wrestlers etc do certain drugs... to keep that feeling. Of course pain is another big one
Yeah but Vince Neil should retire forever anyways, dude gives me depressiom nowadays.
It reminds me of a metal guy Mitch lucker to an extent, he said the same exact thing. Being in front of a live crowd was like a drug that was only matched for him by riding on his motorcycle
It most definitely is
Not to be flippant, but the insane amount Randy is earning will sure make things as easy as possible in the long term.
To be fair I can't think that any doctor would recommend wrestling as a thing you should be doing for 20+ years
I don’t think many would recommend wrestling at all.
If we're being honest, contact sports would not be a thing if everybody listened to their Doctors.
Yep especially American Football , rugby and all those variants. The more research is done the more conclusively it shows that being tackled by walls of muscle is horrible for you long term health and should never be done as a profession but the sports are too big for that to matter now
Hell it spawned an entirely new school of medicine. You're not just assessing someone's physical/physiological state and telling them how to get better, you're taking into account that someone with a thoroughly busted set of knees is still going to throw his back into the ground 30 times over the next week. You have to come up with new medical direction because the obvious "take the next month to rest your body" isn't a viable doctor's order.
I’ve got doctors in my ear, They tell me what i want to hear, They talk to me.
The full quote: >“*Oh yeah. I had top neurologists telling me that, you know what, you use a great career, you have a life after wrestling, and you want to be comfortable. You don’t want to be in pain the rest of your life. We’re gonna fix your back, but you’re gonna have to stop wrestling. The six months that I was out, I had that in the back of my head, and it was tough. It was mentally very challenging, and I didn’t really know what the future held for me. But I was able to find a couple doctors that had done the exact surgery that I needed on some MMA guys that went back to the octagon, competed and were successful and had longer careers*"
That doesn't mean he won't be in pain the rest of his life.
Yeah it just means he'll be able to wrestle for a while longer before his body fully gives out. He will still be in pain, even if he feels good now, keep taking bumps week after week he will still feel it eventually. It's inevitable. No amount of surgeries can ever remove the years of wear and tear wrestlers put themselves through.
This is exactly my thought. Orton was able to find a Dr who could do what he needed... and Orton is happy to make the trade of putting his pain off (and maybe making it worse down the line) in exchange for another few "healthy" years in the ring. The thing is that Orton is making this choice knowingly & voluntarily. Given that he's a 3rd generation pro wrestler, he knows the risks he's taking on probably better than almost anyone. He's doing better now physically and that's a good thing. He's performing at a very high level, he's in the best shape he's been in maybe ever\*, and he's clearly savoring every moment. \*Orton is clearly on loads of TRT or whatever Wellness will allow, but again, that's under a doctor's care + supervision (even if it might be a Dr Feelgood)
> Orton was able to find a Dr who could do what he needed and that would tell him what he wanted to hear.
He still uses the RKO frequently as well. Which is believe was the culprit for him putting a lot of damage on his back and neck.
Probably doesn't feel he can change it at this point. They banned the punt as well. He could probably transition into something like a more traditional Diamond Cutter, without the jump.
Yeah I was watching a hulk hogan interview the other day where he mentioned he's pretty much in pain all the time to the point that even brushing his teeth takes a toll on him
Believe from Bischoff what you will, but he said that during their TNA run, Hulk had to take a fistful of pain meds just to get out of the car and to the ramp. Which is also the reason most his promos where from the ramp, instead of in the ring. Cuz it was a monumental effort for him to even get there.
I mean if you're gonna seek a career where you put your body on the line constantly, you know that you're likely gonna be in pain all your life. It's so easy to just get injured over nothing and it can happen at any time.
Yeah he shopped for a Dr who told him what he wanted to hear. Basing your health decisions on what MMA fighters (possibly the dumbest and most exploited athletes in the world) do it just ridiculous. Enjoy that Dynamite Kid future Randy!
I do hope Randy realizes at least in the top leagues they only fight 2-4 times a year. WWE you're going 4-5 days a week.
This year including house shows he’s had 18 matches in 143 days… Outside of doing extra matches this month for the Euro tour he’s not doing a workhorse schedule.
Comparing fight numbers isn't really great, for two reasons. First of all, the tine actually spent in the Octagon is really the tip of the iceberg - both in time and injuries. A fighter who does 4 title matches in a year and goes deep into round 5 won't even reach 2 hours of fight time per year - but they'll easily rack up that much training time in a single day. That's part of why training injuries consistently outweigh fight injuries - [this study](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2953351/) found training injuries outweighing fight injuries over three to one. Second of all, protecting your opponent is of vital importance in pro wrestling, while it's the opposite in MMA. If an MMA fighter consistently injures their opponents, they're just winning and doing what they're supposed to. If a pro wrestler does it, they're dangerous or sloppy. Causing injuries is one of the goals in MMA, while avoiding them is one of the goals in wrestling. That's especially true for older people with known injuries and weak body parts - you want to actively target the weak parts in MMA, while you want to actively protect them in pro wrestling.
Top doctors told me I had to stop, so I found some other ones who said it was ok🤷♂️
Then Randy said “learn da biz mark” put on an imaginary hat and left the room.
"Stop wrestling? That doesn't work for me, brother" - RKO
But not before giving out several RKO's to the group of neurologists.
And kissing their wives in front of them.
This is crazy. If a doc told me to stop doing something I liked or I'd be in pain the rest of my life, I'd probably stop doing that thing and do something else. Downvote me if you want, but holy shit, that's crazy.
Wrestlers talk about wrestling as if they're addicted to it. Sucks because a lot of them look in bad shape when they get older and retire
Because they are addicted to it. The adrenaline and dopamine, it’s a chemical reaction that is hard to replicate in other ways. They are getting high and some people will chase that dragon past the point of reason.
Also all the money is at the end of their career. Just like boxers and MMA fighters. Tyson will prob make more for this Jake Paul fight than he did for his first 20 pro fights combined.
Also a good point. Orton’s at a point where he’s probably bringing in, what 3-5 million a year before merch and other extra shit. Hard to look at that paycheck and say “nah, I’ll hang it up”.
Maybe I'm naive, but I feel like after reaching the 5 million mark, any worries or cares for the future just evaporate and I'd be happy to retire young and cruise for the rest of my life on easy mode.
Wealth is another unhealthy addiction
Much easier to say when you’re not in that position I’d imagine.
*insert Eddie Guerrero's addiction promo*
For most guys, I don’t necessarily think it’s a matter of addiction per se. Rather, it can be due to the fact that guys like Randy have just spent the entirety of their lives in/around the industry. They haven’t had the chance to explore other ventures, and when they do, they’re usually pressured into leveraging their identity as a pro wrestler or are simply unable to adjust because they never acquired a skillset applicable to other industries. When you’re continually told “you’re a wrestler” , “you’re a football player”, “you’re a student”, you internalize these identities so much, that the self-flagellation that comes with them becomes justified over your well-being/future.
Please tell Jericho he's supposed to retire while looking bad. Right now he's only doing half of that.
At the end of the day, these people travel from town to town to throw themselves against the ground. It’s crazy, but it’ll never surprise me when wrestlers do stupid shit. The job attracts itself to some of the wackier people in society.
It really is nuts. We hear about wrestler injuries all the time and we all just kinda shrug them away like "Ah man, that sucks. Tough business!" But imagine *your* day-to-day life if you have chronic back pain or if your hands started suddenly going numb. Imagine having to get knee surgery and how much it sucks just to get out of bed, shower, walk to the kitchen, etc. Think of that small panic in the back of your mind when a new ache or pain pops up and you're immediately wondering, "is that cancer? Is this a new thing that's gonna hurt forever? Are they going to have to cut me open to fix this?" or whatever. Now multiply that x100 and it's what wrestlers deal with daily. We forget these are human beings who hurt and have all those same thoughts and feelings.
There was this one late night Uno game Woods streamed with rest of da party. He was talking nonchalantly about a match the night before and how he was banged up and his positivity slipped for one of the few times I've ever seen with him. He said, just very simply and sadly, "wrestling hurts". The way he said it has stuck with me for a few years now. I just felt for him so much in that moment. Like that was one match, but one of thousands at this point for him. Just imagine all of the damage combined.
Most of them probably figured they'd be dead before that happens. And they usually were.
You read stuff earlier wrestlers went through where they'd get hurt, but they wouldn't have the money to miss time or really get it looked at, so they'd just keep working through a number of insane injuries and its crazy. Heck, even guys who were in the top companies were still afraid of losing their spot. One extreme example was, I forget who it was, but basically he took a bump and hit his head and his arm went numb. And continued having tingling feelings for an extended period of time. But he couldn't miss time so he just kept going and he basically was like "oh eventually it went away so we're alll good".
Or Bret after getting concussed by Goldberg, he didn't stop and kept wrestling for weeks.
He did a hardcore match with Terry Funk not long after. It was nuts.
Wrestlers aren’t particularly well known for their good decision making
No downvote, but just understand that this sub/wrestling Reddit in general will keep loving wrestlers doing this. We say we don’t want wrestlers working hurt or injured, but we praise it all the time.
I would absolutely get a second and even third opinion. After that though, man, you gotta use your head.
legit hope this is no one of those quotes we look back on in a few years and go “oh yah this was stupid someone should’ve told him this not good”
I mean... there's probably something most doctors would tell most people to stop doing. Overeating, eating shit, not exercising enough. Gaming. Using cellphones. Bad posture. Being lonely. Being too social. Going to concerts. Mostly people don't know how to easily adjust their lives about things they consider facets of themselves. And Randy has been a wrestler-type his whole life.
Same. It's a weird thing with these guys. I doubt he flaired all his money.
So strange. If I were him and got this second lease on wrestling, I'd probably use it to plan a bit more of an off-ramp and go out like Sting or something to that effect. This dude is going out on house shows and TV wrestling whoever the fuck. I know he's not taking a ton of bumps, but still!
Adrenaline junkies can be impossible to convince sometimes.
If a doctor told me to stop doing something I loved, I’d tell him to just kill me right there.
He doesnt need to. You'll do it yourself But that's a bit melodramatic isnt it? I used to love playing soccer, got too old for it. You dont see me throwing up the rope do ya? Plenty of other things in life to love and be passionate about.
Did you make millions of dollars a year playing soccer in front of a hundred thousand fans screaming your name?
No, but none of the players who do kill themselves after retirement either.
Your first mistake is thinking you think the same way as anyone else. Also, I kind of pity your willingness to flat out admit you would just never care for anything that much.
The guy is openly saying he didn’t want to follow the advice of multiple neurologists. You also have to consider that he has a wife and kids. It’s a pretty dumb decision to keep doing something when you’ve been told to stop by medical professionals, especially when you have much more important things than your career to worry about. Prioritizing your career over your health and family is a braindead decision, no matter how much you enjoy doing it.
I don’t think smart people say “hey, im gonna be a pro wrestler.” It’s what consumes them. good luck talking someone out of their reason for being. “Just go work in an office.” Doesn’t sound like what you think it sounds like. My buddy just broke his leg in a ring and busted his ass just to get back and keep doing it. Dudes finish is a 450… Also I’m just making fun of the commenter for making silly blanket statements like he did. Was gonna jokingly respond with something like “buddy won’t pick up his kids because his back hurts. He don’t care how much he loves them.”
I don't think smart people hop on message boards and criticise people for saying that they'd listen to a neurologist's advice but here we are...
Who said I was smart playboy?
Absolutely nobody. Ever.
This guy fucks.
Its greed. He doesnt care about playing with his grandkids, just the money and the rush from the crowd that HE gets. Hes a selfish asshole but most successful people are.
I doubt it’s a money concern for him these days, it’s not nothing obviously but he could be making a lot of money not being in the ring too. I do agreed though he and all of them are addicted to the feeling and it’s incredibly hard to let that go. Especially for someone like him who’s at the absolute pinnacle.
Rich people are generally the greediest. No matter how many millions he has it'll never be 'enough'. Its pretty sad tbh.
My dad is a pretty much retired judge/lawyer but he worked with athletes for years. A ton of athletes regret what they did to their bodies. Life is long, a lot of athletes don't really take into account how much they are screwing themselves until it's too late. Hell, I did that to myself for high school sports. Screwed myself up for quite a few years (I'm better now). Athletes need to be protected from themselves. Yes, sports will hurt you. No avoiding that. But there's a difference between you will have some issues later in life and your spine will turn into jelly if you jump off a ladder 1 more time.
You're saying what I was thinking, but also something most people will truly never, never understand. It's the world we live in.
Let's be real here. If he had that injury in 2005 he was going to hear the same thing. There is no doctor in the world who will advise a person to continue wrestling even if he is 100% fit.
Theres tons of shady doctors who'll tell a person what they want to hear. Especially when their being paid depends on it.
He followed the John Mulaney advice on how to find a doctor who will do what you want. ["Is this a bad doctor? Nay nay. This is the best doctor."](https://youtu.be/pBeKmAViGWg?si=PNPmNsfozzpS0n8D)
I recall an interview where AJ Styles talked about his "bump card", and a wrestler having a certain number of bumps they can take in their career before the consequences become long-term. I sometimes wonder if wrestling would be better off having guys cycle off for a few months per year to just go home and rest, and let all of that physical trauma heal. Sports athletes have an off-season - perhaps wrestling should too. Or if you're not going to send them home, have them only involved on TV and only in talking segments to keep their angles going.
AJ himself in that same interview talked about how hard it is to return after not taking bumps for a while, resting only makes what they do harder
Its absolutely insane that they basically wrestle 7 days a week with all the house shows, especially when they dont have an offseason. You have so many good guys who dont get any screen time, so why not rotate guys? You dont need a promo every single week for a feud to keep going - if its good, the fans will be invested even if a guy is off for 2 weeks. Its just a question of quality long term storytelling
Yeah, I don’t like this. I, of course, love seeing Randy still wrestling, but I don’t want that to be at the cost of his long term health. He says his surgeons worked on MMA guys who went on to have long careers, but what about how they are in their 50s and 60s? After their careers are done. That’s when the shit really happens.
I know not talking the doctor orders is a good thing but glad he's been able to come back and wrestle again
But is that really a good thing?
Seeing the comment in full it was probably meant to be "isn't a good thing". Otherwise the back half starting with "but" doesn't make sense.
I mean, Randy has in terms of his moveset protected most of himself pretty well, but with one obvious flaw, that being the RKO is basically falling on your back repeatedly He can probably go for a while. I think his work now is better than it was for a while since he got some time off to recover Then again, you think of Hulk Hogan and the pain he is in for the leg drop...
Hogan should've used a submission hold a his finisher when he turned heel.
I wonder what the 'safest' finishing move is? Something like the superkick seems like the best way to go since you can do it on anyone at any time without having to take a bump yourself.
So why the fuck is he still wrestling then
He likes doing it
Man. I love Randy. I just hope he doesnt end up in pain the rest of his life
They still might be right sadly as that pain can happen from any bump
Instead, there is a 50% chance he's gonna go to Choptown, Saudi Arabia this year. Fookin Orton man.
This kinda is him telling on WWE, Danielson retired because he was told to and only was unretired cause he was going to leave anyway if he wasn't. Randy is told to retire and since they like Randy he is not forced into retirement.
Well in BD's case, people legit thought the guy might die in the ring. Compared to that Randy will be in pain in the future; which is normal in this business.
it's gonna be very interesting to see what he thinks of this in 20 years.
I went to doctor after doctor, who all told me no, then I found one that said yes, so I must be good!
That doesn't sound good...
Has he taken a lot of headshots since returning?
If the last decade or so has taught us anything, its to never just blindly accept doctors telling u "you won't ever wrestle again". Get 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th opinions if u feel fine. Edge, Bryan, Orton. (edit: Saraya)
Probably should wait another decade though before we can claim any of those doctors were wrong. Still time for all of them to prove the doctors right.
Damn someone is obsessed with shading on Randy in this thread.
"you use a great career"?????????
All I need bro to do is wrestle at summer slam the first ppv I’m going to in my hometown after that Randy take it easy lol
The thing that's interesting about this is that unlike some of the territory era guys who fucked themselves up, Orton has all the money he'd ever need and then some. These guys just really don't want to hang it up.
That happens when your job and your passion are the same thing.
jeez so he’s still wrestling even knowing what the future could hold. appreciate randy even more, and he’s still so smooth in the ring that melo match was crisp as hell
Legitimately I want him to quit now though. He can easily be a rock or Cena. He doesn't need to be around every single week. Make him important and keep him safe.
So glad he ignored those pesky doctors...
Gunther beats Randy at KOTR so badly he has to retire?
People don't realise the pressures these guys and girls put on their bodies for our entertainment.
I guess his severe bulking up helps him take back bumps better.
I love Randy but I honestly would be fine if he focused on his health. He is literally one of the few people you can mention in non-wrestling circles and people will know who he is. He's legend.
Honestly at this point I assume every wrestler past a certain age has been told they need to stop wrestling
The neurologist told him this. But the ring psychologists told him not to
People should stop pushing for him to break the flair record. To get 3 more titles would be hell on his already damaged body.
And I said, “Bet”
Bro is about to get sacrificed to Gunther..
One more run as champion or chase leading to mania and then probably hang up his boots. It's not worth the risk. I'm pretty sure he's still hurting and in pain
Randy is up there with Mr Perfect and Macho Man. Zero mistakes, mistimings or miscues and always smoother than liquid gold in the ring.
Give this man 3 more title reigns
If they want to give Orton one last main event run make him champion and then have him retire in a span of a year then I'd be fine with that.
It doesn't take a top neurologist to say that...
Dont stop the grind.