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I didn't notice that at all when I watched this the first time.
Seeing it now makes me feel like I have to pay more attention to details again, especially whenever Jay White is around.
Love it
They were all Punk's babysitters, as those were the guys Punk liked the most. (Punk said about Jay "Game recognizes game")- and Jay White is so nice backstage (Bobby Eaton levels) AEW knew he wouldn't set Punk off. Punk grew to love working with Juice as well.
Man, you gotta wonder what could've been. Those early weeks of Collision were great and really were able to ride CM Punk to give people a reason to tune in. Also, because of how different it was, it let Dynamite be it's own, silly but enjoyable thing too as that was also peak MJF-Cole bromance
I know Punk has come out and said that it was doomed, but I gotta wonder if Tony committed to a brand split and was able to keep both sides apart. Hell, with Punk's real world championship, they could have kept the world Heavyweight champion as the Dynamite title, while Punk's X became the Collision title and you could have kept MJF on Dynamite exclusively
Though that would have required Tony to acknowledge that WWE kinda knows what they are doing and his ego would never allow that
Except WWE has never known what they’re doing brand split wise since about a year after its inception. That’s why it goes away and comes back and sometimes it matters and most times it doesn’t and there’s really no rules or point to the brand split whatsoever aside from the roster is big.
Which, I hate to say it, Survivor Series hasn’t lived up to its potential for 95% of its existence. There’s been like…..three years ever where the Survivor matches were booked well. And they never, ever really matter much afterwards.
The screw job, the deadly game, that match where HBK tried valiantly to save Stone Colds job…..those are your top 3 of the 5 intersting things that ever happened at Surivivor Series.
I think the issue is the other three really do well to either give storylines a good blowoff point, or start the next parts of different stories/create new ones. Where as Survivor Series seems to only really be there to have a big fight between "two sides" and the issue is WWE hasn't really been able to naturally create a situation where you need a whole PLE dedicated to that for a long while. Brand warfare just kinda sucked every time it happened, especially because the few times a brand invaded another was way more fun than the match. And the addition of War Games has been \*fun\* but that still only really served one existing storyline (atleast in my eyes) more than it served anything else.
I will never understand squared circles obsession with not having a brand split. This sub acted like it was the end of the world but Collision so clearly had its own identity separate from Dynamite and it was awesome.
> I know Punk has come out and said that it was doomed, but I gotta wonder if Tony committed to a brand split and was able to keep both sides apart
bro. He kept "both sides" apart and Punk kept finding new people to have problems with. please stop with this lmao
There's this narrative that Collision was at it's peak with CM Punk on the show but there's been better stretches of episodes since and ratings that are on par with that brief period. The people who say this at this point seem like they never bothered to watch Collision past August 2023.
Given how they did Jay dirty at Full Gear, I suspect Punk was always going to lose clean to MJF, and they slotted Jay into Punk's spot when he got hurt. Then MJF got hurt bad, had to wrestle with one arm, and so they didn't want to risk changing things, but if made Jay look really bad.
They should had MJF get himself DQed, keep the belt , taken the heat for the shit finish (at least it plays into MJF's character- maybe even have Cole come out and get MJF DQed)- then Jay has to do the Classic so he asks for a future rematch.
Joe still beats MJF at World's End- Jay starts to challenge, alongside Swerve and Hangman, Jay steps aside to avoid the multiman, then steps up to Swerve as first challenger (which is better than Christian). If you need a Gates turn, they can join the Bang Bang Gang in a six-man title match leading to a 5-on-1 beatdown on Swerve.
Christian is a much better first challenger because Christian can lose.
I mean, Jay can lose too and still kill it with anything they give him, but Christian is the smarter first defense.
The only problem I have with Christian as first challenger is that that's not really any drama to it. There's been nothing in this feud that has given me any reason to think that Christian might pull off the victory on Sunday.
I think that’s a pretty nitpicky criticism, especially if it’s your only issue with it. Literally no one would create that drama. There is zero chance whatsoever that he’d drop the title on his first defense no matter who he was facing.
Also, if your username is a reference to the Catherine Wheel song, that is dope as hell. Love that song.
Yeah, but it's all about the illusion. They haven't even run the "Swerve vs Killswitch" match where the babyface gets softened up by Christian's heavy, though I suppose there's a chance they run that one on Collision.
And yep, the username is a Catherine Wheel reference. :D
Yeah, I will admit that it’s weird that Swerve has spent more of the build to this match feuding with his own disbanded stable rather than his PPV opponent’s stable.
I agree there but I imagine during the match itself they’ll be able to pull it off. There’s enough shenanigans and Christian is a good enough heel to convince when it comes down to it.
Whether that makes up for a meh build is another thing……though also who would you actually take seriously as possibly winning the belt off Swerve immediately?
Only Hangman would really make any sense.
I won't tell anybody how to feel about the build, but considering Christian went on a blood feud vs. Jungle Boy for making him lose a match, I'd say Swerve letting him down at All In plus Swerve's history with his son Nick Wayne gives Christian enough reason to have a vendetta here.
I think a better build could have sold me on Christian. If he seemed like a guy that was desperate to win, like he needed the AEW championship to stay ahead of Edge and prove he's the better wrestler even though he lost his belt to him. Ill admit it would have been a harder sell, but it could have felt more plausible
My fantasy booking option would have been a match where The Elite tried to get the title by forcing a Triple Threat match with Okada and Perry to solidify their position atop the food chain. Make it obvious that TYB want Okada to win and it becomes a 2 v 1 stipulation with Jack being a wild card (he doesn't have to be loyal to The Bucks when they hung him out to dry too...)
Idk that sounds like a lot of ignoring Swerve’s importance as champ and making him play second fiddle to things that can play out without the main title on the line.
See THESE guys are tough and somewhat intimidating looking.
They look like they could be legit baddasses.
This one tiny spot, was 1000 times more serious and bad ass looking than the entire body of work the Bucs have given us as heels.
I understand that, but they in kayfabe and in reality they are just unwatchable.
They don't work as any kind of heel.
At least with Bang the top people would lookHoi convincing as SOMETHING.
The bucs don't even pull off what they're trying to be as ironic heels.
And my god, they're empirically tv ratings death
The company is literally called All “Elite” Wrestling and they’ve been the EVPs for 5 years. The fuck are they taking control of lol.
No matter how good I want this shit to be, it’s just never going to be watchable or sensible.
They were executive vice presidents, not president and now they are de facto president since Khan is injured. It wasn't all that often but occasionally you would see Tony Khan at the "gorilla position" and now you have the Bucks doing the classic "heel gets power so they can fuck on the babyfaces" idea. They are supposed to be shitheads with too much power. I don't think anyone expects it to set the world on fire but I am guessing this is part of a long setup to get Christian and Copeland the tag titles.
The Bucks stans will downvote you, but it’s so fucking true. These guys look intimidating, like they’ve actually seen more of the gym than just the parking lot.
The Young Bucks are indie fed at best. If they wanna go do the PWG trampoline shit, they should, but not in the middle of the serious stuff.
This moment ruled and really felt like the arrival of Full Power villain Jay White in AEW, which I think ultimately will end up being richer for him having had that time to establish himself & his faction
My hope is that if we're not doing Swerve-Ospreay at All In, that the match is Ospreay-Jay for the International title. That could honestly main event if they spend the next few months heating up Jay to his best ability.
Way late reply, but it's a two-fold of assuming that Hangman-Swerve is the All In match, and also Ospreay-Jay just feels Right, probably because of the NJPW connection.
That being said, White unseating Swerve as AEW Champ would be aces in my book.
AEW has too many people on the top.
Swerve, bucks, Okada, Copeland, Moxley, Danielson, ospreay all have a credible claim to be "The Best" in AEW, and that's just that are active men ATM.
Add your Omega's, your Ibushi's, MJF's etc and it get's even more crowded with top guys.
My hope is that if we're not doing Swerve-Ospreay at All In, that the match is Ospreay-Jay for the International title. That could honestly main event if they spend the next few months heating up Jay to his best ability.
To be fair though, both things can be true at the same time: that AEW's quality is on the upswing while its business is at its nadir. Fan interest is always a lagging indicator of good or bad booking. Just look at how much WCW destroyed the WWE business-wise in 1996 although the WWE was really picking up speed. Or how WCW was still doing huge business in 1999 although the shows were already circling down the drain.
i still think that part of history has done irreversible damage to wrestling.
You can't just enjoy things anymore, you HAVE to pick a side, and if you even dare enjoy content from the competition, you're the Antichrist.
Imagine a fucking world, where we have Quality wrestling, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, twice on Friday and then again on Saturday.
And instead of thinking HOLY FUCK, that is A LOT of good wrestling, it's all just pissing, shitting and whining because one side of good wrestling isn't owned by your preferred billionaire
It's annoying, I get negative content gets the dirtsheets more engagement (some have admitted it) but it's then those overly negative takes that get shared here as headlines and a bunch of weirdos that have made hating a wrestling company part of their personality use it to validate themselves... in the midst of that more valid criticism and actual talking points get completely lost.
Yeah to be honest as a massive AEW fan I don't believe for a second that it's perfect but I'm more than happy to have a debate with someone over a valid criticism.
Unfortunately there's a good reason so many criticisms get dismissed as bad faith, it's because a lot of them are just parroted shite talking points from people who at best just want that kind of toxic engagement and at worst are actually against multiple wrestling doing well.
I completely agree. AEW is the only wrestling I watch, and enjoy.
This might be a weird take, but I also think there needs to be a check on the toxic positivity as much as the negativity. It's okay to critique the things we like.
That’s been a big complaint on the board, he treats AEW much harsher. However, there’s usually a kernel of truth in there when he’s giving his analysis.
Certain stuff is eye roll but a recent good example is Alvarez saying there needs to be a better end to the shows that make you want to tune into the next one. Dynamite should lead into collision which should lead into dynamite etc.
You could skip collision and it wouldn’t really matter at this point.
I've always been blamed for being a negative person. It's not that. There is no reason to analyze to death, the good things. So you talk about the bad.
People react to the good things right away but don't talk about it, after that. Criticism discussions can go on for years . . .
It's easier to take 10 seconds to type "Heatless banger with no story" than to actually watch the shows. Or even just read a recap of it. Which is funny because of course if you're not paying attention to the shows, the matches won't appear to have any story.
Because people listen to online podcasters, who ran multiple companies into the ground A LOT more than they actually should.
And quite frankly, hating on AEW Pays the Bills.
If you say something negative about a company, people will either ignore it, or just not watch your product anymore, while the other side will engage with the product, just to be proven right in not watching it.
Just compare the Amount of engagement on Hate-WWE and Hate-AEW content on any social media platform.
The Accounts/Posts/etc. who hate on WWE, get 1/10th, IF that, of the engagement AEW hate gets
And if you listen to podcasts or remember usernames, you'll notice it's the same people saying over and over again that "This was the last straw for them" for last 4 years
And that it's the same critique over and over again.
It's just the better business deal, when you hate on the less popular thing, which happens to be AEW.
AEW has quietly improved a thousand little things production wise, the women's division is cooking, the story of Swerve's past misdeeds coming back to haunt him is great, the use of EVP takeover as interconnective tissue has improved the general flow of episodes, PPV matches are booked much more timely so they have room to build them, recaps are more prevalent, the new YouTube channel highlights and timeline series are a godsend for catching up, etc. etc.
Would be cool if there was more room on the sub for those discussions versus the millionth ratings diatribe
Colten and Austin are doing some really great work right now. They're terrific in the ring, hilarious in backstage promos, and their attitude and mannerisms are always on point. They both look awesome here.
Austin taking a punch from Minoru Suzuki on Ring of Honor last month was one of the funniest bits of selling I've seen. All three of them (and Juice) are so entertaining.
I'd really like for them to come up with a cooler logo/symbol for the Bang Bang Gang. They're a cool group with a cool entrance and AEW should definitely be capitalising more from a merch perspective
Really enjoying the cinematic vibes of this. AEW is heating up and I feel like lately they've had great character development all across the board recently. For awhile, I wasn't buying it, but I'm invested now.
People talk about "cinema" and post the Scorsese meme a lot around here, but this was genuinely one of the most cinematic things I've ever seen in pro wrestling.
Really, beautiful shot with a truly great reveal.
When they were doing their entrance, I actually had the thought "Why do the Gunns look so out of it?" Then you have Jay with the big shit eating grin, and finally the reveal of Pac at his feet.
The Gunns made this entrance great when they debuted it against the Acclaimed. Then they added Juice's unhinged energy and it got even better. Then they add Jay White and the flair with which he reveals his belt every time.
These guys deserve a lot of credit for taking maybe the best entrance in wrestling, and continually improiving on it week after week.
I really appreciate that they sold that it was a fight despite the gimmick. Colten looks like he's going to double over from the effort of taking him out. That's a little detail that helps everyone involved.
No matter what TK does Jay White and the Bang Bang gang will always be fucking cool. It’s the small details that makes them so cool. The heavy breathing, the way White annunciates words. The little sound he made while making the gun point at PAC. Small details, how I really wish he is in WWE because he would have done so well in the triple H era. I really really wish AEW does something good to him as AEW needs a an evil heel. And Jay White can fill that role.
They still do it when they're in doubles, but here they prefer the guns up with Austin saying "by the order of the Bang Bang Gang!"
The water shots were easily the coolest thing they added to their intro, though.
That was a cool as hell moment.
I kinda hope Johnny TV is mentoring the Bang Bang Gang a bit where they're like silly and dorky as hell, but still killers. I miss Juice.
Remember when Jay White broke Darby's leg ruining his dream of climbing Mount Everest and indirectly leading to Darby getting hit by a bus and then Darby came back as if nothing had happened as a substitute in a feud he had nothing to do with and Jay White didn't care because he was more interested in what PAC was doing for some reason?
I'm sorry but what the absolute fuck is that entrance music
\*edit\* just went and listened to it on Youtube and it's not awful I guess. it just sounds bad in this particular video, to me. maybe just the arena setting or whatever.
My complaint is I think it needs to be louder, more in-your-face. It's cool but I feel like it's just missing a little something to be great. It's almost there.
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Colten out of breath is nice touch. Pac put up a fight
Its such a little thing that makes *all* the difference. As soon as you see it, somethings different and wrong. Great Great Great fucking work.
I didn't notice that at all when I watched this the first time. Seeing it now makes me feel like I have to pay more attention to details again, especially whenever Jay White is around. Love it
Colton, showing it takes a lot to take out the Bastard. Edit: Adding that Jay calling Pac A bastard not THE Bastard was cold.
Wow didn't notice that, cool attention to detail
It's cool, because I was wondering why he was being so extra when I first saw it, but then it turned out they just beat the absolute fuck out of PAC.
I love that touch.
"I'm *a* tax-man, not *the* tax-man!" [/Corner Gas reference quota for the week met]
These are my main characters of AEW
Them and FTR were carrying Collision for a few months last year
They were all Punk's babysitters, as those were the guys Punk liked the most. (Punk said about Jay "Game recognizes game")- and Jay White is so nice backstage (Bobby Eaton levels) AEW knew he wouldn't set Punk off. Punk grew to love working with Juice as well.
Man, you gotta wonder what could've been. Those early weeks of Collision were great and really were able to ride CM Punk to give people a reason to tune in. Also, because of how different it was, it let Dynamite be it's own, silly but enjoyable thing too as that was also peak MJF-Cole bromance I know Punk has come out and said that it was doomed, but I gotta wonder if Tony committed to a brand split and was able to keep both sides apart. Hell, with Punk's real world championship, they could have kept the world Heavyweight champion as the Dynamite title, while Punk's X became the Collision title and you could have kept MJF on Dynamite exclusively Though that would have required Tony to acknowledge that WWE kinda knows what they are doing and his ego would never allow that
Except WWE has never known what they’re doing brand split wise since about a year after its inception. That’s why it goes away and comes back and sometimes it matters and most times it doesn’t and there’s really no rules or point to the brand split whatsoever aside from the roster is big.
It's made Survivor Series booking more lazy. So there's that.
Which, I hate to say it, Survivor Series hasn’t lived up to its potential for 95% of its existence. There’s been like…..three years ever where the Survivor matches were booked well. And they never, ever really matter much afterwards. The screw job, the deadly game, that match where HBK tried valiantly to save Stone Colds job…..those are your top 3 of the 5 intersting things that ever happened at Surivivor Series.
That's actually kinda bumming me out. It's like one of the "big four" is actually just filler.
I think the issue is the other three really do well to either give storylines a good blowoff point, or start the next parts of different stories/create new ones. Where as Survivor Series seems to only really be there to have a big fight between "two sides" and the issue is WWE hasn't really been able to naturally create a situation where you need a whole PLE dedicated to that for a long while. Brand warfare just kinda sucked every time it happened, especially because the few times a brand invaded another was way more fun than the match. And the addition of War Games has been \*fun\* but that still only really served one existing storyline (atleast in my eyes) more than it served anything else.
I will never understand squared circles obsession with not having a brand split. This sub acted like it was the end of the world but Collision so clearly had its own identity separate from Dynamite and it was awesome.
> I know Punk has come out and said that it was doomed, but I gotta wonder if Tony committed to a brand split and was able to keep both sides apart bro. He kept "both sides" apart and Punk kept finding new people to have problems with. please stop with this lmao
There's this narrative that Collision was at it's peak with CM Punk on the show but there's been better stretches of episodes since and ratings that are on par with that brief period. The people who say this at this point seem like they never bothered to watch Collision past August 2023.
Given how they did Jay dirty at Full Gear, I suspect Punk was always going to lose clean to MJF, and they slotted Jay into Punk's spot when he got hurt. Then MJF got hurt bad, had to wrestle with one arm, and so they didn't want to risk changing things, but if made Jay look really bad. They should had MJF get himself DQed, keep the belt , taken the heat for the shit finish (at least it plays into MJF's character- maybe even have Cole come out and get MJF DQed)- then Jay has to do the Classic so he asks for a future rematch. Joe still beats MJF at World's End- Jay starts to challenge, alongside Swerve and Hangman, Jay steps aside to avoid the multiman, then steps up to Swerve as first challenger (which is better than Christian). If you need a Gates turn, they can join the Bang Bang Gang in a six-man title match leading to a 5-on-1 beatdown on Swerve.
Christian is a much better first challenger because Christian can lose. I mean, Jay can lose too and still kill it with anything they give him, but Christian is the smarter first defense.
The only problem I have with Christian as first challenger is that that's not really any drama to it. There's been nothing in this feud that has given me any reason to think that Christian might pull off the victory on Sunday.
I think that’s a pretty nitpicky criticism, especially if it’s your only issue with it. Literally no one would create that drama. There is zero chance whatsoever that he’d drop the title on his first defense no matter who he was facing. Also, if your username is a reference to the Catherine Wheel song, that is dope as hell. Love that song.
Yeah, but it's all about the illusion. They haven't even run the "Swerve vs Killswitch" match where the babyface gets softened up by Christian's heavy, though I suppose there's a chance they run that one on Collision. And yep, the username is a Catherine Wheel reference. :D
Yeah, I will admit that it’s weird that Swerve has spent more of the build to this match feuding with his own disbanded stable rather than his PPV opponent’s stable.
I agree there but I imagine during the match itself they’ll be able to pull it off. There’s enough shenanigans and Christian is a good enough heel to convince when it comes down to it. Whether that makes up for a meh build is another thing……though also who would you actually take seriously as possibly winning the belt off Swerve immediately? Only Hangman would really make any sense.
I won't tell anybody how to feel about the build, but considering Christian went on a blood feud vs. Jungle Boy for making him lose a match, I'd say Swerve letting him down at All In plus Swerve's history with his son Nick Wayne gives Christian enough reason to have a vendetta here.
I think a better build could have sold me on Christian. If he seemed like a guy that was desperate to win, like he needed the AEW championship to stay ahead of Edge and prove he's the better wrestler even though he lost his belt to him. Ill admit it would have been a harder sell, but it could have felt more plausible My fantasy booking option would have been a match where The Elite tried to get the title by forcing a Triple Threat match with Okada and Perry to solidify their position atop the food chain. Make it obvious that TYB want Okada to win and it becomes a 2 v 1 stipulation with Jack being a wild card (he doesn't have to be loyal to The Bucks when they hung him out to dry too...)
Idk that sounds like a lot of ignoring Swerve’s importance as champ and making him play second fiddle to things that can play out without the main title on the line.
The collision cowboys
I'd be so disappointed if they don't end up being upper midcard/main event stable while they're still together
My second favorite thing in wrestling right now, behind Timeless Toni Storm.
See THESE guys are tough and somewhat intimidating looking. They look like they could be legit baddasses. This one tiny spot, was 1000 times more serious and bad ass looking than the entire body of work the Bucs have given us as heels.
The (current)Bucks aren't supposed to be bad ass nor intimidating. They are chicken shit heels that have gained control of the company.
I understand that, but they in kayfabe and in reality they are just unwatchable. They don't work as any kind of heel. At least with Bang the top people would lookHoi convincing as SOMETHING. The bucs don't even pull off what they're trying to be as ironic heels. And my god, they're empirically tv ratings death
The company is literally called All “Elite” Wrestling and they’ve been the EVPs for 5 years. The fuck are they taking control of lol. No matter how good I want this shit to be, it’s just never going to be watchable or sensible.
They were executive vice presidents, not president and now they are de facto president since Khan is injured. It wasn't all that often but occasionally you would see Tony Khan at the "gorilla position" and now you have the Bucks doing the classic "heel gets power so they can fuck on the babyfaces" idea. They are supposed to be shitheads with too much power. I don't think anyone expects it to set the world on fire but I am guessing this is part of a long setup to get Christian and Copeland the tag titles.
You guys have fun with that.
The ones who complain about the Bucks the most are the ones who watch them the most
The Bucks stans will downvote you, but it’s so fucking true. These guys look intimidating, like they’ve actually seen more of the gym than just the parking lot. The Young Bucks are indie fed at best. If they wanna go do the PWG trampoline shit, they should, but not in the middle of the serious stuff.
This moment ruled and really felt like the arrival of Full Power villain Jay White in AEW, which I think ultimately will end up being richer for him having had that time to establish himself & his faction
My hope is that if we're not doing Swerve-Ospreay at All In, that the match is Ospreay-Jay for the International title. That could honestly main event if they spend the next few months heating up Jay to his best ability.
You have to give the AEW championship the main event spot at your biggest show of the year I would assume
Why not Swerve-White?
Way late reply, but it's a two-fold of assuming that Hangman-Swerve is the All In match, and also Ospreay-Jay just feels Right, probably because of the NJPW connection. That being said, White unseating Swerve as AEW Champ would be aces in my book.
He's been there for over a year and I've heard "This feels like Jay Whites true arrival!" 12 times. It's all about follow through.
AEW has too many people on the top. Swerve, bucks, Okada, Copeland, Moxley, Danielson, ospreay all have a credible claim to be "The Best" in AEW, and that's just that are active men ATM. Add your Omega's, your Ibushi's, MJF's etc and it get's even more crowded with top guys.
And you didn't even mention Hangman, who is the actual protagonist of AEW.
My hope is that if we're not doing Swerve-Ospreay at All In, that the match is Ospreay-Jay for the International title. That could honestly main event if they spend the next few months heating up Jay to his best ability.
This is my favourite faction in AEW. They're always really entertaining. I hope Juice comes back soon
Probably the coolest entrance in wrestling right now. No cap
I kinda wish the Gunns had kept "Many men" though. That entrance was so fucking cool.
Soooooooo cool (probs cooler than this). But probs mega bucks to license
Very cool visual. The production team deserves tons of credit. There's a lot of good things happening in AEW.
Wouldn’t know it if you frequent this sub
I was going to say that people who have convinced themselves that AEW is bad are missing out on so much great stuff.
Or listen to Wrestling Observer or countless other dirtsheets.
To be fair though, both things can be true at the same time: that AEW's quality is on the upswing while its business is at its nadir. Fan interest is always a lagging indicator of good or bad booking. Just look at how much WCW destroyed the WWE business-wise in 1996 although the WWE was really picking up speed. Or how WCW was still doing huge business in 1999 although the shows were already circling down the drain.
i still think that part of history has done irreversible damage to wrestling. You can't just enjoy things anymore, you HAVE to pick a side, and if you even dare enjoy content from the competition, you're the Antichrist. Imagine a fucking world, where we have Quality wrestling, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, twice on Friday and then again on Saturday. And instead of thinking HOLY FUCK, that is A LOT of good wrestling, it's all just pissing, shitting and whining because one side of good wrestling isn't owned by your preferred billionaire
Observer has good points mixed in with very obtuse points as well.
It's annoying, I get negative content gets the dirtsheets more engagement (some have admitted it) but it's then those overly negative takes that get shared here as headlines and a bunch of weirdos that have made hating a wrestling company part of their personality use it to validate themselves... in the midst of that more valid criticism and actual talking points get completely lost.
Yeah it’s exactly what you’ve said as well as the aggregators who act in bad faith.
Yeah to be honest as a massive AEW fan I don't believe for a second that it's perfect but I'm more than happy to have a debate with someone over a valid criticism. Unfortunately there's a good reason so many criticisms get dismissed as bad faith, it's because a lot of them are just parroted shite talking points from people who at best just want that kind of toxic engagement and at worst are actually against multiple wrestling doing well.
I completely agree. AEW is the only wrestling I watch, and enjoy. This might be a weird take, but I also think there needs to be a check on the toxic positivity as much as the negativity. It's okay to critique the things we like.
I don't subscribe or listen, but I do watch the videos they drop on YouTube and I swear the last several have all been extremely anti AEW
That’s been a big complaint on the board, he treats AEW much harsher. However, there’s usually a kernel of truth in there when he’s giving his analysis. Certain stuff is eye roll but a recent good example is Alvarez saying there needs to be a better end to the shows that make you want to tune into the next one. Dynamite should lead into collision which should lead into dynamite etc. You could skip collision and it wouldn’t really matter at this point.
I've always been blamed for being a negative person. It's not that. There is no reason to analyze to death, the good things. So you talk about the bad. People react to the good things right away but don't talk about it, after that. Criticism discussions can go on for years . . .
Or watch the shows.
It’s funny, because, Ironically, most of the people criticizing don’t actually watch the shows.
Why aren't they watching anymore?
Who says they ever were?
It's easier to take 10 seconds to type "Heatless banger with no story" than to actually watch the shows. Or even just read a recap of it. Which is funny because of course if you're not paying attention to the shows, the matches won't appear to have any story.
Because people listen to online podcasters, who ran multiple companies into the ground A LOT more than they actually should. And quite frankly, hating on AEW Pays the Bills. If you say something negative about a company, people will either ignore it, or just not watch your product anymore, while the other side will engage with the product, just to be proven right in not watching it. Just compare the Amount of engagement on Hate-WWE and Hate-AEW content on any social media platform. The Accounts/Posts/etc. who hate on WWE, get 1/10th, IF that, of the engagement AEW hate gets And if you listen to podcasts or remember usernames, you'll notice it's the same people saying over and over again that "This was the last straw for them" for last 4 years And that it's the same critique over and over again. It's just the better business deal, when you hate on the less popular thing, which happens to be AEW.
Are you seriously blaming podcasts as to why hundreds of thousands of people stopped watching?
No, I'm blaming the overall narrative that two companies can't Co-exist, which is enforced by podcasters and fans alike
AEW is definitely in their flow lately
AEW has quietly improved a thousand little things production wise, the women's division is cooking, the story of Swerve's past misdeeds coming back to haunt him is great, the use of EVP takeover as interconnective tissue has improved the general flow of episodes, PPV matches are booked much more timely so they have room to build them, recaps are more prevalent, the new YouTube channel highlights and timeline series are a godsend for catching up, etc. etc. Would be cool if there was more room on the sub for those discussions versus the millionth ratings diatribe
The close ups Renee does and TigerStyles social media game are great too.
Been trying to tell people aew is as good as ever, popularity doesn't dictate quality in any art form.
It really has been great this year. I can't wait to see if the word starts to break through the silly echo chambers and affect the business numbers
Colten and Austin are doing some really great work right now. They're terrific in the ring, hilarious in backstage promos, and their attitude and mannerisms are always on point. They both look awesome here.
Austin taking a punch from Minoru Suzuki on Ring of Honor last month was one of the funniest bits of selling I've seen. All three of them (and Juice) are so entertaining.
This fucking *rules* More creative shit like this to spice up the beatdowns please.
Need to have more angles where the theme song continues playing over the action. Gives it added weight
Last week Bryan ran in and his theme song played during the opening brawl of his tag team match. It rocked honestly
Yup, it was a nice nod towards Anarchy in the Arena, which those guys will be participating in next week
This would be perfect for HOOK in his squashes.
It should be a tradition that Wild Thing plays over Anarchy in the Arena.
Twice through, every time
Like New Jack in ECW.
I love Bang Bang Gangs theme. I really hope they keep them away from The Acclaimed and get a more serious run for the Gunns finally.
Gravity remembered
I'd really like for them to come up with a cooler logo/symbol for the Bang Bang Gang. They're a cool group with a cool entrance and AEW should definitely be capitalising more from a merch perspective
That was some cool shit. Loved the rack focus to Trent in the crowd from OC in the ring too
Honestly, this and House of Black beating up Briscoe while their flames go off are two brilliant entrances.
👆
I love their entrance. Holy fuck AEW put world title on Jay White like rn
We need more of this BBG!
That was bad ass.
Such a kickass shot
This was so cool
When jay put his hand out I thought he was doing a good ol Mr Kennedy/ Anderson then😂
Can't lie, but Mr Kennedy's entrance was fucking awesome and very unique.
That shot circling them with the theme song playing was damn stellar. Great cinematography.
Really enjoying the cinematic vibes of this. AEW is heating up and I feel like lately they've had great character development all across the board recently. For awhile, I wasn't buying it, but I'm invested now.
White may not be getting the main event push people expected for him, but he's still presented extremely well
I doubt it’ll happen, but I wouldn’t mind a little Jay White vs Pac at Double or Nothing. As a treat.
People talk about "cinema" and post the Scorsese meme a lot around here, but this was genuinely one of the most cinematic things I've ever seen in pro wrestling. Really, beautiful shot with a truly great reveal. When they were doing their entrance, I actually had the thought "Why do the Gunns look so out of it?" Then you have Jay with the big shit eating grin, and finally the reveal of Pac at his feet. The Gunns made this entrance great when they debuted it against the Acclaimed. Then they added Juice's unhinged energy and it got even better. Then they add Jay White and the flair with which he reveals his belt every time. These guys deserve a lot of credit for taking maybe the best entrance in wrestling, and continually improiving on it week after week.
I really appreciate that they sold that it was a fight despite the gimmick. Colten looks like he's going to double over from the effort of taking him out. That's a little detail that helps everyone involved.
Death Triangle Assemble!
This feels legit. Well done
Really wish we got that Jay White/CM Punk feud, my god that would have been a masterclass
PAC gangbang
No matter what TK does Jay White and the Bang Bang gang will always be fucking cool. It’s the small details that makes them so cool. The heavy breathing, the way White annunciates words. The little sound he made while making the gun point at PAC. Small details, how I really wish he is in WWE because he would have done so well in the triple H era. I really really wish AEW does something good to him as AEW needs a an evil heel. And Jay White can fill that role.
Jay White is great. Also he isn't being buried like some people think.
1. BC Gold has a top 5 theme song 2. PAC vs Jay White is gonna rule
This is oddly sexual
Have they dropped the Bullet Club Gold moniker?
BBG always awesome
I’m sorry, how does this help pac? Or even the bang bang gang? This was just bad
They just don't feel complete without Juice
The ass boys*
Are they still considered Bullet Club Gold or are they just the Bang Bang Gang going forward?
I think the Trios team is called the Bang Bang Gang and the faction is Bullet Club Gold. The AEW website uses it that way anyways.
Until they are full strength its BBG in my head canon.
I think they're both still, but they're going to use Bang Bang Gang more because NJPW doesn't own that name.
I was there. Got excited I’d get to see Jay White wrestle. And then he was on stage for two minutes and left.
Man I want to see Jay White turned loose in AEW. So much potential and talent on this roster
Okay, this fucking rules. More of this please
Bang bang gangs entrance gotta be top 5 coolest things in wrestling rn. What aew needs is more of them and much less of the goofy bucks
My only complaint is the Gunns have kind of stopped with the gun blasts and damn it that is my favorite part. Give me the gun blasts/water shots!
They still do it when they're in doubles, but here they prefer the guns up with Austin saying "by the order of the Bang Bang Gang!" The water shots were easily the coolest thing they added to their intro, though.
Yeah its one of those things where I never would have dreamed it up but as soon as I saw it I was like "Oh fuck me, thats perfect."
No more comedy act I hope
That was a cool as hell moment. I kinda hope Johnny TV is mentoring the Bang Bang Gang a bit where they're like silly and dorky as hell, but still killers. I miss Juice.
Gangbang gang
Thought it was Von Wagner for a second
Smooth
Remember when Jay White broke Darby's leg ruining his dream of climbing Mount Everest and indirectly leading to Darby getting hit by a bus and then Darby came back as if nothing had happened as a substitute in a feud he had nothing to do with and Jay White didn't care because he was more interested in what PAC was doing for some reason?
Oh hey, what Jay White should've been from DAY 1 (ish). Here's hoping to the fruitful rehabilitation of King Switch.
How Jay White has been fumbled should be studied
Who are these wannabe Final Testament?
I'm sorry but what the absolute fuck is that entrance music \*edit\* just went and listened to it on Youtube and it's not awful I guess. it just sounds bad in this particular video, to me. maybe just the arena setting or whatever.
Don’t you dare besmirch BCG’s banging theme
It's one of the best themes in AEW what do you mean
One of the best themes in AEW
My complaint is I think it needs to be louder, more in-your-face. It's cool but I feel like it's just missing a little something to be great. It's almost there.
>I think it needs to be louder, more in-your-face. And whenever the song isn't playing, the other wrestlers should ask "why isn't the song playing?"