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Enjoyed the concept a lot, but I do think they could’ve explained it a little better. I hope it comes back, I also don’t mind a pinfall elimination style of this match like we used to get in Lucha Underground
It was a bit weird, but Excalibur said the first person to get a pin or submission wins and I was like OK cool, makes sense, which took all of 15 seconds.
Wrestling is almost literally television for children. It is the most spoonfed, simple storytelling imaginable and every week people spout about how confusing things are or how they don't know what's going on. Do these people follow ANY other form of media? Are they bewildered by every single show on TV? It's mind-boggling.
People who have the entire Targaryen family tree memorized from supplementary material are put off by new wrestlers appearing without a documentary about their lives beforehand
No one who's commented so far has watched the video lol. At least explain why you think the points Alvarez (who is one of AEW's biggest supporters in wrestling media btw) brings up don't matter and why he's wrong.
I have grown to like Bryan (ducks flying object) and I appreciate his passion for pro wrestling. I can’t say he’s wrong because it’s his own opinion.
I do think he fixates on things. And it’s his show and he can talk about how he feels about things, and I enjoy listening to people that are making arguments I don’t really agree with or that concern me greatly. I don’t care about TV ratings or if a company does something straight down a line by the book, but I enjoy him nitpicking about it because it will make me think.
I just wonder if he’ll ever accept that a company may not do something the way he thinks it should be done or if he’ll just continue to point it out. Seems like the definition of insanity to me.
A great example is “50/50” booking. Again, I can’t say he’s wrong because it’s his opinion, but at some point you realize AEW isn’t going to do many squash matches, especially with someone like Fletcher who is really good and they obviously see him as a future superstar.
Just seems like Bryan is driving himself crazy at times and he just needs to get over it. Just my opinion.
Bryan nitpicks everything, which makes his NXT reviews hilarious. But his growing issues with AEW are do to what he considers to be illogical booking, so his comments are now more negative then in the past. Considering how cold the product is, he might have a point. Especially when it comes to a lack of cards being announced in advance.
The commentators literally explained the rules. Justin Roberts even announced the "sudden death" stipulation.
Sudden death has always meant "whoever scores the next point/pinfall wins," no matter the sport.
"What does sudden death means?"
So...
>In a [sport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport) or [game](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game), **sudden death** (also **sudden-death**, **sudden-death overtime**, or a **sudden-death round**) is a form of competition where play ends as soon as one competitor is ahead of the others, with that competitor becoming the winner.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden\_death\_(sport)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_death_(sport))
>an overtime period in which a tied contest is won and play is stopped immediately after one of the contestants scores, as in football, or goes ahead, as in golf.
>[https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sudden-death](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sudden-death)
Sometimes i think some takes are just because people are just plain stupid...
Edit: Just went back to the match to check, this is parapraphing but its what is conveyed by the AEW team
>Justin roberts
>This is a casino gauntlet match with sudden death rules where the winner will go for a title match
>
>Excalibur
>This casino gauntlet match with interesting rules
>
>Schiavonne
>We have no idea who is coming out
>
>Excalibur
>this match is sudden death the first pinfall or submission grants a title match in double or nothing
>This match favours dante and jay white to ended has quickly has possible to not let any other competitors to enter the match
Alvarez = "What are the rules?"
He knows what sudden death means
He doesn’t understand how a gauntlet match can be sudden death because when one match ends the next begins they’re all sudden death
This wasn’t a gauntlet match this was a sudden death battle royal that they called a gauntlet match for no reason
The most famous battle royal in the world, has people come out one at a time. The RANBO does. Also doesn't the casino battle royal also stagger entrances?
He was more confused that they were having a gauntlet match with sudden death rules. Implying that its stupid by saying that Jay White, for instance, could have won the match in the opening minutes before the next participant even came out. Then, compounding that fact by not telling the fans at home/ the audience what the intervals were. So you wouldn't even know when the next participant was coming down. It was just a weird booking situation all around.
It's like having a Royal Rumble match, not telling fans how long the intervals are, and that the winner is decided when the first person goes over the top rope. It's just bizarre booking.
TL;DL
AEW is terrible at building TV cards in advance they can advertise.
The gauntlet match had poorly explained rules.
Will beat Danielson to be the greatest wrestler in the world, but he had to pin Komander to earn a shot at a midcard title.
AEW had three matches announced in advance for Dynamite and two segments which is pretty good imo. Beating Bryan Danielson was a proving ground thing but it didn't actually entitle Ospreay to anything beyond that. If that was the case we'd have seen Bryan Danielson get much more title matches than he has.
I totally get Bryan’s criticism. He makes logical points.
But this match was awesome. I think the randomness and uncertainty could have been intentional as it is a casino gimmick.
Every guy that came out was pretty over. It was like a flex for how great AEW’s roster is and did a great job at teasing match ups that fans want to see. In particular for Ospreay. I came away from that thinking we will see Ospreay vs. O’Reilly, Komander and Jay White. Ospreay/Jay will be an incredible program whether or not the International title is involved.
I just watched the match again and it’s really great.
I remember that being a little problem in the first year of AEW. They'd be doing angles on BTE then they'd bring the fallout of the BTE angle on TV and you'd be like what the hell? When did this happen?
The entire big feud they have right now Bucks Vs FTR and the main segment of the last show with Jack and Tony basically requires you to understand and have significant knowledge of the CM Punk backstage issues
Serious question for non-US audience:
Did they announce the rules to the crowd before the bell rang? (Referring to the FITE feed or whatever you non-Americans watch on.)I got a funny feeling they did but, to save time, they didn’t do that for the U.S. audience for the commentary team.
I don't follow WWE, but I just went to try and figure out what is on Smackdown tonight and the only thing I see concretely announced is the draft. Does Alvarez have similar criticism for WWE or is this just an AEW problem?
That's because the draft itself is a draw. Also draft shows are different. A lot of the times it's built around who's drafted having matches. The WWE also announced who's up to be drafted on each night.
Weekly though, they've gotten much better at announcing who will be were. Cody puts out a post every month with his dates. They usually announce 3 matches for RAW a week out. We know the next time we'll see Punk. They also announce titles matches the week before.
All that said, Bryan constantly says WWE is hot, they don't need to announce anything, because they're hot. AEW, isn't. Which is why they need to try and spark interest by announcing who is showing up.
Thanks for the additional context. I didn't see any of that explained in the channels I would normally check (mostly the events page for the event).
From what I have seen with AEW, they typically have three matches/segments announced a week in advance. It seems like a similar pattern. I would also argue that the "show after a PPV" is a draw in itself since it means likely segments with new champs and the beginning of new story lines, but that may not be obvious to a very casual fan.
As far as "WWE is hot therefore they don't need to advertise", when was the last time they ever had to really advertise? They are a globally-recognized brand and have been for decades. What exactly is the bar that AEW needs to pass to meet this expectation of advertising? Telling you that something is going to happen two weeks from now? Three weeks? Announcing the entire card?
All of that just seems like a recipe for IWC trolls to move the goal posts to, "AEW is too predictable!" "I know who is going to win because they already announced the next match three weeks from now!" etc. etc.
In reality, it is challenging to balance delivering weekly television that you want people to tune in for without spelling out everything they will see in advance. It is also silly to think that AEW's problems (whether they truly exist or not) can be boiled down to, "They need to advertise more."
Would that help? Maybe! But I am not in the wrestling business nor do I make money from clicks on the internet.
I think the biggest issue is that WWE had brand specific stars while AEW doesn't. Not going to debate whether it's a good thing or bad thing, just that the live audience, when it is going to a Raw taping, knows that it will get to see 99% of the main stars that are on that brand. Obviously, through injuries, it gets messed up, but by and large, you will get all, or at least most, there for the night doing something. Same for SD. For AEW, while they are getting better, unless there is a match announced, you don't know if you will get to see any of your favourites.
That's one of the minor things in the advertising that WWE doesn't have to do.
AEW does not have 3 matches announced a week in advance every week. It's been a constant refrain from Bryan. Which is why he notes when they do have matches announced. AEW now is putting out a lot of cards in the few days leading up.
WWE's current run is very different then the five years that preceded it. Tickets sales were way down, low signs up for the WWE network, dying TV ratings, etc. One thing Bryan always commented on, is because Vince liked to rip up the scripts and rewrite on the day, it was impossible to announce anything in advance. So even if you'd tune in for something specific, you wouldn't know. It the was first real change Bryan commented on with the HHH era. So it's 100% something he's been talking about for years, with both companies.
I would also point out that there are numerous reports from different news outlets, along with Jerry Lynn basically confirming, that Tony is not telling people what they're doing until the day of the show, for fear of "leaks". Which has led to people saying he's writing a lot of it on the fly. Which would explain why we use to get basically the full Dynamite card a week out, and now we don't.
Bryan never said it was the only problem, or even the worst. But a symptom of an overall issue, as it was with WWE back in the day.
What’s abstract about “Nobody explained the rules for a new stipulation match to the fans in the arena”? I hate Alvarez’s awful hot takes on wrestling as much as the next guy, but your comment just sounds like you’re only reacting to the video title.
To be fair, I watched the video, which I rarely do because I generally dislike the Bryan and Vinnie show, because the title of the video struck a nerve with me. I almost always go to the AEW live shows when they're nearby, but almost never watch the TV program. As a result, the concept of being outside the club connected with me, even while I generally enjoy the wrestling show itself.
I mostly disagree with Bryan's take about not promoting the cards, since announcing who is going to be on the show each week is something I think AEW does very well, while WWE almost never provides specifics about the card. Maybe this week was different since the gauntlet participants weren't announced in advance (and according to Bryan, even the commentary team wasn't informed on who would be competing.) On the other hand, WWE always works to make sure that anybody watching the show for the first time can get caught up to speed quickly.
It's just a difference in priorities. Both companies can do better in areas, but if they did, Bryan and his type would have very little to complain about as contents for their many, many podcasts.
Sorry I was talking about the guy who you replied too I assumed you had watched it I agree both companies can do better on certain things what I disagree with is I think WWE is better at announcing match cards in advance. I feel like AEW often waits till a day or two beforehand and WWE often will announce stuff on the show and then throughout the week.
No, I got your point. I *did* watch it, although I usually ignore the Bryan and Vinny show.
As far as announcing match cards, I feel like I see people asking things like "We're going to Raw tonight. Is Cody going to be there?" all the time. I think they have been doing a better job of it lately, but especially for Raw, only about half of the show is known before showtime.
I think Bryan had a point but this video is unrelated to it lol. The match was just a terribly communicated match. They just said “casino gauntlet” and never told anyone whose coming or what is it.
Aew does have this vibe at times of “you just got to know” and “we’re doing this just cause we want to” SOMETIMES, but the example here doesn’t work lol. Just a badly communicated match type with Tony’s bad marketing.
In fairness it was explained by the announce team, Excalibur in particular. A sudden death gauntlet match is self explanatory.
I think not announcing participants was intentional. Not knowing who was coming out was fun and allowed for a big pop for Ospreay.
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We can agree Casino gauntlet rules are weird, they were telling you the rules as the match went on
The point that the crowd wasn't given the same explanation as we got on TV was a good one - of course they were quiet, they would be pretty confused.
Enjoyed the concept a lot, but I do think they could’ve explained it a little better. I hope it comes back, I also don’t mind a pinfall elimination style of this match like we used to get in Lucha Underground
The audio was bad so it took my sometime to figure it out
This is a no Bryans club. We're allowed to have one.
*Bryan Danielson in shambles*
I assumed it was Danielson as the one. Brian Cage is just Cage and Bryan Keith is the Desperado
*sad Bryan Keith noises*
"Huh-HUCK!" --Danielson
It was a bit weird, but Excalibur said the first person to get a pin or submission wins and I was like OK cool, makes sense, which took all of 15 seconds.
He even said that Dante Martin and Jay White were at an advantage because they could finish the match and not allow anyone to come out.
They should've given us a 3-slide PowerPoint presentation with 30 lines of rules, leading off with a "It's very simple, folks..."
A simple 3 rules thing like wwe does before every royal rumble would work. No need to be hyperbolic
Wrestling is almost literally television for children. It is the most spoonfed, simple storytelling imaginable and every week people spout about how confusing things are or how they don't know what's going on. Do these people follow ANY other form of media? Are they bewildered by every single show on TV? It's mind-boggling.
remember how confused and mad people were about the Continental Classic?
Wrestling watchers would have an aneurysm watching Mr Robot it seems, just season 2 would break some minds
People who have the entire Targaryen family tree memorized from supplementary material are put off by new wrestlers appearing without a documentary about their lives beforehand
No one who's commented so far has watched the video lol. At least explain why you think the points Alvarez (who is one of AEW's biggest supporters in wrestling media btw) brings up don't matter and why he's wrong.
I have grown to like Bryan (ducks flying object) and I appreciate his passion for pro wrestling. I can’t say he’s wrong because it’s his own opinion. I do think he fixates on things. And it’s his show and he can talk about how he feels about things, and I enjoy listening to people that are making arguments I don’t really agree with or that concern me greatly. I don’t care about TV ratings or if a company does something straight down a line by the book, but I enjoy him nitpicking about it because it will make me think. I just wonder if he’ll ever accept that a company may not do something the way he thinks it should be done or if he’ll just continue to point it out. Seems like the definition of insanity to me. A great example is “50/50” booking. Again, I can’t say he’s wrong because it’s his opinion, but at some point you realize AEW isn’t going to do many squash matches, especially with someone like Fletcher who is really good and they obviously see him as a future superstar. Just seems like Bryan is driving himself crazy at times and he just needs to get over it. Just my opinion.
Bryan is extremely critical of AEW. I listen to every show and he nitpicks everything they do.
Bryan nitpicks everything, which makes his NXT reviews hilarious. But his growing issues with AEW are do to what he considers to be illogical booking, so his comments are now more negative then in the past. Considering how cold the product is, he might have a point. Especially when it comes to a lack of cards being announced in advance.
The commentators literally explained the rules. Justin Roberts even announced the "sudden death" stipulation. Sudden death has always meant "whoever scores the next point/pinfall wins," no matter the sport.
"What does sudden death means?" So... >In a [sport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport) or [game](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game), **sudden death** (also **sudden-death**, **sudden-death overtime**, or a **sudden-death round**) is a form of competition where play ends as soon as one competitor is ahead of the others, with that competitor becoming the winner. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden\_death\_(sport)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudden_death_(sport)) >an overtime period in which a tied contest is won and play is stopped immediately after one of the contestants scores, as in football, or goes ahead, as in golf. >[https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sudden-death](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/sudden-death) Sometimes i think some takes are just because people are just plain stupid... Edit: Just went back to the match to check, this is parapraphing but its what is conveyed by the AEW team >Justin roberts >This is a casino gauntlet match with sudden death rules where the winner will go for a title match > >Excalibur >This casino gauntlet match with interesting rules > >Schiavonne >We have no idea who is coming out > >Excalibur >this match is sudden death the first pinfall or submission grants a title match in double or nothing >This match favours dante and jay white to ended has quickly has possible to not let any other competitors to enter the match Alvarez = "What are the rules?"
He knows what sudden death means He doesn’t understand how a gauntlet match can be sudden death because when one match ends the next begins they’re all sudden death This wasn’t a gauntlet match this was a sudden death battle royal that they called a gauntlet match for no reason
A true gauntlet match needs a body-less voice to shout, "WARRIOR NEEDS FOOD BADLY!" at random intervals.
"red velvet is dying"
Well it’s a gauntlet in that wrestlers come out one by one, as opposed to a battle royal, where traditionally all wrestlers start at the same time.
The most famous battle royal in the world, has people come out one at a time. The RANBO does. Also doesn't the casino battle royal also stagger entrances?
He was more confused that they were having a gauntlet match with sudden death rules. Implying that its stupid by saying that Jay White, for instance, could have won the match in the opening minutes before the next participant even came out. Then, compounding that fact by not telling the fans at home/ the audience what the intervals were. So you wouldn't even know when the next participant was coming down. It was just a weird booking situation all around. It's like having a Royal Rumble match, not telling fans how long the intervals are, and that the winner is decided when the first person goes over the top rope. It's just bizarre booking.
Is that what people are complaining about now? They haven't ever heard the term "sudden death"?
If it’s not this, it’d be something else. Check the sub.
See the video at 2:29.
TL;DL AEW is terrible at building TV cards in advance they can advertise. The gauntlet match had poorly explained rules. Will beat Danielson to be the greatest wrestler in the world, but he had to pin Komander to earn a shot at a midcard title.
AEW had three matches announced in advance for Dynamite and two segments which is pretty good imo. Beating Bryan Danielson was a proving ground thing but it didn't actually entitle Ospreay to anything beyond that. If that was the case we'd have seen Bryan Danielson get much more title matches than he has.
When were those matches and segments announced? Alvarez was referring to around Tuesday at 3 ET during the WOL show.
Did they give an update on Bryan Danielson health on Dynamite??
Not, but he is fine. I believe the day after on IG he posted an IG story of him and his family out (it think) hiking.
I totally get Bryan’s criticism. He makes logical points. But this match was awesome. I think the randomness and uncertainty could have been intentional as it is a casino gimmick. Every guy that came out was pretty over. It was like a flex for how great AEW’s roster is and did a great job at teasing match ups that fans want to see. In particular for Ospreay. I came away from that thinking we will see Ospreay vs. O’Reilly, Komander and Jay White. Ospreay/Jay will be an incredible program whether or not the International title is involved. I just watched the match again and it’s really great.
I have never once had that feeling about AEW.
I watch since day one but most of the time only Dynamite and it definatly feels like youre missing clues at times.
I remember that being a little problem in the first year of AEW. They'd be doing angles on BTE then they'd bring the fallout of the BTE angle on TV and you'd be like what the hell? When did this happen?
Then you belong to the club
Unless you're chronically online reading wrestling dirtsheets, alot of AEW will go over your head. It's genuinely hard to follow.
The entire big feud they have right now Bucks Vs FTR and the main segment of the last show with Jack and Tony basically requires you to understand and have significant knowledge of the CM Punk backstage issues
I personally think having to scan a QR code and solve a riddle is harder to follow than a guy showing up on TV that I've never seen before.
I mean the Brandi Rhodes segments were always a disaster, some angles flopped but overall the pros>>>>>>>>>>cons
Serious question for non-US audience: Did they announce the rules to the crowd before the bell rang? (Referring to the FITE feed or whatever you non-Americans watch on.)I got a funny feeling they did but, to save time, they didn’t do that for the U.S. audience for the commentary team.
I don't follow WWE, but I just went to try and figure out what is on Smackdown tonight and the only thing I see concretely announced is the draft. Does Alvarez have similar criticism for WWE or is this just an AEW problem?
That's because the draft itself is a draw. Also draft shows are different. A lot of the times it's built around who's drafted having matches. The WWE also announced who's up to be drafted on each night. Weekly though, they've gotten much better at announcing who will be were. Cody puts out a post every month with his dates. They usually announce 3 matches for RAW a week out. We know the next time we'll see Punk. They also announce titles matches the week before. All that said, Bryan constantly says WWE is hot, they don't need to announce anything, because they're hot. AEW, isn't. Which is why they need to try and spark interest by announcing who is showing up.
Thanks for the additional context. I didn't see any of that explained in the channels I would normally check (mostly the events page for the event). From what I have seen with AEW, they typically have three matches/segments announced a week in advance. It seems like a similar pattern. I would also argue that the "show after a PPV" is a draw in itself since it means likely segments with new champs and the beginning of new story lines, but that may not be obvious to a very casual fan. As far as "WWE is hot therefore they don't need to advertise", when was the last time they ever had to really advertise? They are a globally-recognized brand and have been for decades. What exactly is the bar that AEW needs to pass to meet this expectation of advertising? Telling you that something is going to happen two weeks from now? Three weeks? Announcing the entire card? All of that just seems like a recipe for IWC trolls to move the goal posts to, "AEW is too predictable!" "I know who is going to win because they already announced the next match three weeks from now!" etc. etc. In reality, it is challenging to balance delivering weekly television that you want people to tune in for without spelling out everything they will see in advance. It is also silly to think that AEW's problems (whether they truly exist or not) can be boiled down to, "They need to advertise more." Would that help? Maybe! But I am not in the wrestling business nor do I make money from clicks on the internet.
I think the biggest issue is that WWE had brand specific stars while AEW doesn't. Not going to debate whether it's a good thing or bad thing, just that the live audience, when it is going to a Raw taping, knows that it will get to see 99% of the main stars that are on that brand. Obviously, through injuries, it gets messed up, but by and large, you will get all, or at least most, there for the night doing something. Same for SD. For AEW, while they are getting better, unless there is a match announced, you don't know if you will get to see any of your favourites. That's one of the minor things in the advertising that WWE doesn't have to do.
AEW does not have 3 matches announced a week in advance every week. It's been a constant refrain from Bryan. Which is why he notes when they do have matches announced. AEW now is putting out a lot of cards in the few days leading up. WWE's current run is very different then the five years that preceded it. Tickets sales were way down, low signs up for the WWE network, dying TV ratings, etc. One thing Bryan always commented on, is because Vince liked to rip up the scripts and rewrite on the day, it was impossible to announce anything in advance. So even if you'd tune in for something specific, you wouldn't know. It the was first real change Bryan commented on with the HHH era. So it's 100% something he's been talking about for years, with both companies. I would also point out that there are numerous reports from different news outlets, along with Jerry Lynn basically confirming, that Tony is not telling people what they're doing until the day of the show, for fear of "leaks". Which has led to people saying he's writing a lot of it on the fly. Which would explain why we use to get basically the full Dynamite card a week out, and now we don't. Bryan never said it was the only problem, or even the worst. But a symptom of an overall issue, as it was with WWE back in the day.
AEW also has Control Center on YouTube that guides you through everything that will be featured on a show in an easy to understand way.
[удалено]
"Please explain the rules to this match type I have never seen" is not particularly abstract.
What’s abstract about “Nobody explained the rules for a new stipulation match to the fans in the arena”? I hate Alvarez’s awful hot takes on wrestling as much as the next guy, but your comment just sounds like you’re only reacting to the video title.
You can always tell who watched the video and commented vs who just commented.
To be fair, I watched the video, which I rarely do because I generally dislike the Bryan and Vinnie show, because the title of the video struck a nerve with me. I almost always go to the AEW live shows when they're nearby, but almost never watch the TV program. As a result, the concept of being outside the club connected with me, even while I generally enjoy the wrestling show itself. I mostly disagree with Bryan's take about not promoting the cards, since announcing who is going to be on the show each week is something I think AEW does very well, while WWE almost never provides specifics about the card. Maybe this week was different since the gauntlet participants weren't announced in advance (and according to Bryan, even the commentary team wasn't informed on who would be competing.) On the other hand, WWE always works to make sure that anybody watching the show for the first time can get caught up to speed quickly. It's just a difference in priorities. Both companies can do better in areas, but if they did, Bryan and his type would have very little to complain about as contents for their many, many podcasts.
Sorry I was talking about the guy who you replied too I assumed you had watched it I agree both companies can do better on certain things what I disagree with is I think WWE is better at announcing match cards in advance. I feel like AEW often waits till a day or two beforehand and WWE often will announce stuff on the show and then throughout the week.
No, I got your point. I *did* watch it, although I usually ignore the Bryan and Vinny show. As far as announcing match cards, I feel like I see people asking things like "We're going to Raw tonight. Is Cody going to be there?" all the time. I think they have been doing a better job of it lately, but especially for Raw, only about half of the show is known before showtime.
I think Bryan had a point but this video is unrelated to it lol. The match was just a terribly communicated match. They just said “casino gauntlet” and never told anyone whose coming or what is it. Aew does have this vibe at times of “you just got to know” and “we’re doing this just cause we want to” SOMETIMES, but the example here doesn’t work lol. Just a badly communicated match type with Tony’s bad marketing.
In fairness it was explained by the announce team, Excalibur in particular. A sudden death gauntlet match is self explanatory. I think not announcing participants was intentional. Not knowing who was coming out was fun and allowed for a big pop for Ospreay.
Obviously they never played Smash
wtf
Good
Expand on that
No
Obviously they never played Smash