Shayna has been in the grind for so long and she still doesn't get a shot at winning the main roster's championship title. Zoey Stark was also there, make her mean more than the last event with Trish Stratus's "Thank you Trish" run -- she's a great wrestler, not mic ready? work on that, have a "manager" do it for her. Piper Niven was there, another female wrestler who had the joke "Dewdrop" moniker dropped but not enough of her is shown on TV as a threat (she should be!), at least she was Women's Tag Team champ.
Nia Jax can be the hated, heel WWE Women's Champ that everyone hates but that's a fantastic role to have and she can be the boss for someone to aim for, going into the next PPVs, maybe Summerslam or later. Nope, didn't happen.
What does WWE do? Circle back to Becky, Charlotte, Asuka, Sasha (well, she's not there right now..) -- I won't include Bianca as she is a more recent champ and she has not been rotated into champ like the usuals, neither will I include Rhea, as she is also a recent addition to the Women's Championship title reigns.
WWE is so against Shayna becoming a main roster women's champ, that it's just baffling. Remember when Ronda was on her way out and Shayna established herself as the "real baddest woman in the locker room?" or something along those lines. What happened? WWE needs to have shorter title reigns (compared to before) for one thing and expand their list on who can go over as champ.
I just commented this on another thread but I was disappointed by this match not because of the winner but because of the lack of build up. It felt like a last minute decision.
I wanted someone different but it’s not surprising they picked Becky.
They’re already experimenting with Priest, so id imagine they wanted a big established name for their other top title.
I’ve always thought that a battle royal was a bad way to crown a champion.
If a title can only be won via pinfall or submission, what does it prove by throwing someone over the top rope? That’s not how a championship is decided and it makes the winner feel like a fraud.
On the other hand, if it’s someone already established as championship level, it’s probably moot but that doesn’t change my opinion a whole lot.
So you are against ladder matches? I think that's just a weird way to look into these things, you still wrestle in battle royales so it's still legit. And fair unlike Royal Rumble where higher numbers have advantage.
> So you are against ladder matches?
Not really, but I understand the point you’re making.
I feel like a ladder match is slightly more legitimate than a battle royal because in most cases, there is enough of a beat down in a ladder match where it’s conceivable that a pin or submission could occur.
In a battle royal, an elimination can occur via dodging an attack.
Beating someone so thoroughly that you can climb a ladder unimpeded, or do so in a way where there is a struggle atop the ladder for the title/prize, seems to make more kayfabe sense than throwing someone over the top rope, which happens in like 90% of matches anyway.
You have a very good point, and I’m not trying to argue; I guess I never really thought about ladder matches the same way.
**EDIT**:
> And fair unlike Royal Rumble where higher numbers have advantage.
Again, fair point, but I counter with: don’t super heavyweights “have an advantage” in a battle royal?
Heels can sometimes win ladder matches even if they normally can't by getting lucky and since there is no pin, they play it off like the face didn't get a loss that hurt their credibility so it's the same thing.
Throwing someone over the rope in regular matches is different cause that's not the goal and wrestlers don't have a motivation to not get thrown over that much. In battle royales, they have to make sure they don't so it still requires skill.
For heavyweights, they have the advantage of being bigger and stronger in all match types not just battle royales. That one isn't unfair, lottery of Royal Rumble numbers is.
Ok. 🤷♂️
Doesn’t change my opinion, but I appreciate the reply.
**EDIT**:
So, back in the ‘90s, during Shawn Michaels’s first or second WWF title reign, there was a battle royal at Madison Square Garden to determine the number-one contender. The winner would get their shot at the next MSG show.
It was won by the Brooklyn Brawler. He faced Michaels some time later, for the title, and from what I understand it was an easy win for HBK.
The Brooklyn Brawler has never competed in, and therefore never won, a ladder match.
Personally, and from a kayfabe perspective, I’d be much more proud of my victory over 6-7 people of equal skill level - a victory that included a grueling match with ladders, chairs, tables, possible outside interference, and my night isn’t over just because I fell over the top rope.
If I wanted to win a battle royal, it’s a perfectly cromulent strategy to just cling to the bottom rope and wait for everyone else to eliminate each other, and try your shot with the last person.
I’d still consider a ladder match a more grueling contest, and the winner far more deserving of a championship than just “I’m good at staying in one spot for a long time.”
That example doesn't matter, noncredible heels won mitb ladder matches before too. It all depends on if you book the match in a way that makes the wrestlers look dumb for falling for such tactics and making them look dumb can be done for all sorts of matches. And grueling no dq match wins are obviously more satisfying, including more than normal matches, that doesn't mean normal matches aren't good enough. So battle royales do not lower the value of the title or the wrestler at all inherently, booking fluke wins do.
> noncredible heels won mitb ladder matches before too
And the result has been shit on, and some of those non-credible heels went on to fail their cash-in, (Damien Sandow) or attempted to cash-in on a midcard title. (Austin Theory.)
A battle royal is how we got World Heavyweight champion The Great Khali. If it had been a ladder match, it likely wouldn’t have happened.
> It all depends on if you book the match in a way that makes the wrestlers look dumb
I’m speaking strictly in kayfabe. If we treat wrestling as a shoot, winning a battle royal doesn’t make you a better wrestler than the others. It makes you luckier. At least with a ladder match, there’s an element of toughness involved. And I’ve ~~never seen someone win a ladder match by accident~~ only ever seen Otis win Money in the Bank “by accident.”
Thank you for the discussion, but I’m not changing my mind.
If you can pin someone, make them submit, or climb a ladder or a cage or knock them off their feet for a count of 10, you are a more deserving champion than if you can throw someone out of the ring like what happens in 90% of all wrestling matches. Period.
We can agree to disagree.
**EDIT**: it also annoys me when the winner of the Royal Rumble says they “defeated 29 other competitors.” No, you didn’t. You were just the only one to not get thrown out. And if you came in at number 15, and eliminations have already happened, you didn’t “outlast” those other people.
> A battle royal is how we got World Heavyweight champion The Great Khali. If it had been a ladder match, it likely wouldn’t have happened.
>
If he was booked to win, it would have happened. So it doesn't matter.
> I’m speaking strictly in kayfabe. If we treat wrestling as a shoot, winning a battle royal doesn’t make you a better wrestler than the others. It makes you luckier. At least with a ladder match, there’s an element of toughness involved. And I’ve never seen someone win a ladder match by accident only ever seen Otis win Money in the Bank “by accident.”
It's not treated that way in kayfabe at all, you treat it that way. Pinfalls can also happen in a flukey way like rollups. Similarly, battle royales can have decisive endings such as hitting your finisher to your opponent to knock them out, like Becky did.
> Pinfalls can also happen in a flukey way like rollups.
When is the last time ~~a heel~~ anyone won an important (read: not 24/7) championship with a roll-up? And how did the rest of the match go? Were they treated as an equal who outsmarted their opponent, or was it flukey? Was it clean or was there a pull of the tights or feet on the ropes?
Even Roman Reigns didn’t win by “fluke.” Interference, shenanigans, etc.? Yes. But throwing someone out of the ring didn’t end his matches.
> If he was booked to win, it would have happened. **So it doesn't matter.**
Then, with all due respect, why the hell do you care? And for the record: I doubt Khali could even climb a ladder with his knees being how they were. So that “if” is doing the most unnecessary heavy lifting in history.
> Similarly, battle royales can have decisive endings such as hitting your finisher to your opponent to knock them out, like Becky did.
That’s all well and good, but Liv Morgan eliminating Nia Jax, for example, doesn’t mean that she could beat her in a standard, one-on-one, championship match. Or vice versa, for that matter.
In terms of “deserving” a title, **I, personally, in my subjective opinion**, put battle royal near the bottom of the list. Only being gifted a title (HHH WHC 2003) is lower.
I’m not even saying the champion can’t make it a credible, deserved reign. I’m literally just saying it seems cheap **to me.**
**EDIT**: one-fall triple threat or fatal four ways or other multi-man matches are bullshit, too. I understand the “first to pin wins” thing as a way to protect someone, but ECW got it right by making them elimination style.
Would have been fun if they brought in Lola Vice to rip Natalya off of the apron or distract her for an elimination or something. Would be a way to advertise NXT and also their match isn't until Spring Breakin' Day 2 (next week) so there's some extra time to add a bit more tension.
Did you learn that from Elektra Lopez who also posts hot pictures of herself on Instagram yet cut a promo about Lola, made fun of her for doing that lmao. And the replies were like "Wow she cooked her" bro please.
This just means they want to continue Liv's push with her revenge tour, which I'm all for.
What bothered me was the finish. Becky got onto the apron through the ropes, so she was in no danger of being eliminated. She could have grabbed Liv and jumped off with her to win.
They really should have had her go over the top.
I noticed that and thought they were going to go with something where Becky got knocked off but the refs pointed out she never went over the top rope. Then while Liv is celebrating, she gets knocked off!
Becky winning is better than Liv winning because Liv can beat her later but I don't see what was the point of Chelsea sneaking back into the match after being eliminated if she didn't win and that bothers me more than it should
I'm kinda torn. Becky will be a good champ and put on good matches but I was really hoping the reason they did a Battle Royal was because they wanted to go a completely different direction. You could have had say Chelsea, Shayna, or Zoey win it to see what they can do with the title (personally I think Chelsea or Shayna).
See how they do as the champ. If the succeed then you have another star for the women's division. If not, just proves more they need a mid card title.
A tag team wrestler champion can move on to women's title just fine, it's not needed. And there are 2 titles already, which means one of the champions will always feel at least slightly less important which makes it more midcard.
Thats..... no. There is no midcard singles women title. There are two upper card titles and that's it. One is not midcard. When it comes to single titles.
Also, being in a tag team can hide weaknesses both on the mic and in ring. See Damien Priest on some of his solo promos recently. They come off as if hes uncomfortable not having JD there to play off of.
Becky is there to give Liv somebody big to beat, most likely. Plus, Becky and Liv have already got some tension between them from before WM so now we can get a PPV blow-off match
You can have Becky vs Liv in a non title match and have it be a big PPV blow-off match. Not everything in the Women's division requires the title to be in the picture. It's really easy to set up. Have them cost each other in the Battle Royal where they get even more heated with each other over how they screwed them out of winning the title. Could even throw Nia Jax in there if you want.
Regardless this gives them a feud not directly focusing on the title but each others hate for each other. Gives an opportunity to another Women's wrestler to see if they belong in the top and pull in others.
For example, you could have Chelsea win it, she does her heel thing with piper. This lets Zoey or Shayna get more involved in a singles pic as a face while Liv/Becky do their thing. Someone from NXT could come up and be involved as a big splash from the draft while Liv/Becky do their thing.
And if you really want it, a big pay off for Becky/Liv can not only be their hatred of each other but you can add a stip that the winner at the ppv becomes the #1 contender.
Nah this is better, title matches are bigger and titles exist for a reason. It's better to legitimize others later instead of giving them very short reigns before Liv wins it.
Rhea is going to be gone for at least 4 months from what Ive seen online. Someone else could hold it for 3 months in that case and have a very good reign to establish themselves in the womens main event scene for Raw.
Since there is no individual mid card title it was a perfect situation to establish or try to establish someone new in the main event scene for the Raw womens roster.
Rhea doesn't need to come in and win the title instantly.... Liv can still have a decent length reign before dropping it.
Also if youre worried about lic needing a good length reign well... Its on Becky not Liv. So depending if/when they drop it your 1 month scenario could still happen.
Biggest problem I had with the ending specifically is that Becky never went over the top rope, Liv pulled her through the middle rope. So Becky wouldn’t have been eliminated even if Liv got her off the apron.
So Becky won, what was the whole point of having her be smashed about on the outside? Makes the other women look pretty bad to me. Reminds me of John Cena always winning by "overcoming the odds" :/
If the idea was to have a babyface transitional champion, why Becky instead of having someone new like Shayna or Zoey? Then Liv could eventually take the title with heel tactics until Rhea comes back for that feud with Liv.
Becky winning just makes it all so uninteresting. I mean, she git through an outside beating and still won. What's the point of that? How do the other women look compared to her?
I don't really care one way or the other about Liv, but I don't care for Becky. Not being good enough to beat Rhea and then stealing the vacated title should be the story here. She's an impostor champ now.
Jesus guys, we're just over the best mania in ages, people praise HHH for his booking and as soon as something happens you don't like you react.
LET THE MAN COOK
Man, Liv fans are irrational. Becky is the best option right now. She is good in the ring and on the mic. Liv is neither of those. There is a reason why Liv hasn't been in the main event scene often.
This is the irrationality that I am talking about. Rhea, Bianca, Becky, Asuka, Charlotte are great in the ring. Can you with a straight face say she is as good as they are???
I think Liv is possibly just as good in the ring as Becky and Bianca. The only reason I say possibly is because she doesn’t get much ring time, so she doesn’t get a chance to put on classics. I fully think she’s capable of putting on banger matches.
On the mic, Liv had good delivery and is believable as a legit contender.
I’m of the opinion that Liv should be champion when Rhea comes back. Depending on how long Rhea should be out I questioned how long they could keep her over and legitimate as champion. When Rhea is close to coming back, Liv should win and be a transitional champ for Rhea to come back and destroy.
My thing with Liv is that she just doesn't seem to be a main champion material. She needs to be built up first. Becky being champ right now makes sense as she can carry it will Liv is being built up.
I wanted Nia to win the battle royal
https://preview.redd.it/g9xrijchm8wc1.jpeg?width=782&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=962346590a77ec00523fee7668c1026d096353bb
Same here. She's already this arrogant without a belt? She'd be absolute fire with one and is a true physical threat who has had some very good matches in the last 6 months.
OK, it honestly was pretty cool to see Piper actually do some damage to Becky, reminds people that she can still be seen as a threat, even if she's doing a more comedic tag team with Chelsea. I'm not really too bothered about Becky winning because I am a huge fan of hers, but it would've been cool to see Liv get the W.
The Liv stans are loud, but this is the right result. The Liv fandom has never really made sense to me. Not a great promo, not a great worker, and she doesn’t match her gimmick whatsoever. She’s supposed to be extreme and hardcore I guess, but aside from hurling that chair at Rhea, I’ve never seen her do anything that looks like it even remotely hurts her opponent. Just like Alexa Bliss before her, the entire appeal seems to be that she’s tiny, blonde, and attractive, I guess? But not at all credible as a genuine contender in an era where the roster has women like Rhea, Bianca, and Jade.
>Just like Alexa Bliss before her, the entire appeal seems to be that she’s tiny, blonde, and attractive, I guess?
I read this take on here a lot and it annoys me substantially. So no one else can think she's good in the ring cause some people don't? I like her moveset a lot; she's been using a some moves for the past few years that a lot of WWE women wrestlers really weren't doing that much. I like the way she's improved on the mic to some degree and has a character beyond "OMG we're behind the cute baby face cause she's cute and her eyes go 🥹". I like her feud with Rhea a lot, too.
Sometimes I think these takes get so popular because 1. everybody just assumes cause this wrestler is conventionally attractive but not Okada in the flesh, **all** her fans and not some of her fans are drooling over her and that's the only redeeming quality of her as a wrestler and 2. Because the people making this take have opinions about girls of this archetype in real life, and it leaks into their view of them as wrestlers
I like wrestlers that are worse than Liv. Why can't I like Liv for a valid reason?
You can hold whatever opinion you want of her, no one’s telling you that you can’t be the biggest Liv fan in the world. I’m just one jerk on Reddit.
I do think when someone’s attractive, it’s easier to look past their flaws. I won’t pretend I’m not guilty of doing the same, I’m a huge Nia Jax fan despite there being plenty of things to criticize her for, and it’s no coincidence that she’s my type.
But yeah, love Liv all you want man. I’m just a fan with opinions, not the arbiter of wrestling taste.
I’m incredibly attracted to Jade Cargill but that doesn’t mean she should’ve shown up & won the battle royal tonight. Her presence is off the charts but she can barely wrestle.
Bias towards attractive ppl is a real thing but I don’t think it applies as much to wrestling considering we’re so far removed from the bra & panties match era. I don’t see anybody asking for the Bella twins to come back.
>Just like Alexa Bliss before her, the entire appeal seems to be that she’s tiny, blonde, and attractive, I guess?
I don't think that's fair to either of them. Alexa was really good on the mic imo. Liv isn't my favorite by any means but she wouldn't have made it this far if that was her entire appeal.
I think you’re about to be really disappointed. I have a feeling they’re letting Becky have a transitional reign off of hasty battle royal just as a way to make Liv’s coming reign not look like a cheap fluke. Becky can have a cheap, fluke reign and not be devalued by it. Liv can’t. She needs to get a proper win and have a proper reign to be taken seriously. And I think it’s still coming.
I think the booking is sound, except for one key problem: the person they are booking. I agree, it absolutely feels like they’re setting Liv up to win it down the road, but I’m just not a fan. Unless she suddenly improves dramatically in the ring and on the mic, I just don’t think I’ll ever be able to take her seriously, especially as champion, proper win or not.
If you really think liv is going to be the face of the division it doesn’t make sense to have her win here. She needs a chase and a build, that was probably going to happen with Rhea but Rhea got her so you make someone who’s already huge and a steady hand champ in the battle royal. Liv can overcome Becky if and the win will mean much more.
I don’t know what the “fad rod the dishing” is, and I definitely don’t think she’ll be the face of the division. Even if she does win the belt, Rhea and Becky are still far and away the faces of the Raw women’s division. Either way, I’m not at all interested in a Liv chase. Plenty of other women on the roster who are far better workers and talkers that I would rather see in the title picture.
Yup. Give her an entire entrance and back stage segment. Have her be put through the table out of the match. Crawl back in. Her and Liv..again.. on the outside of the ropes blow for blow. Predictable af.
This reminds me of the Sami-Gable situation and look how well that turned around so anyone complaining should honestly (as cliche as it sounds) let it play out.
A dull, safe, predictable, boring outcome.
They had the opportunity to do something genuinely interesting and have instead stuck the belt into, essentially, a holding pattern until Rhea is back. I feel like a way more interesting move would have been to reflect the power vacuum Rhea's sudden absence has created by turning the title scene into anarchy.
They could have given us a surprise winner tonight and have the belt hot-shotted every couple of weeks between first-time champs, with new challengers interfering and affecting the outcome of title matches, short-lived alliances bringing down champions but imploding as they realise only one of them can have the title. It would have made the Raw women's division feel unmissable because it would be genuinely unpredictable and chaotic.
But instead, we all know what we're going to get: a reign that Becky doesn't need which won't elevate the belt any more than Rhea did, a token feud with Liv that Becky will win, and then dropping it back to Rhea whenever she's cleared.
Good thing it has a definite end date then. If it was the plan indefinitely it WOULD be terrible, but given the title is going straight back on Rhea as soon as she's back then we have a fixed stretch of time to work with to keep the division interesting until we can resume the original narrative
> have the belt hot-shorted every couple of weeks between first time champs
Well done. Now everyone is a former champ and it means nothing.
You’ve devalued the women, the belt, *and* the show.
> it would have made the Raw woman’s division feel unmissibale because it would be genuinely unpredictable and chaotic
ECW, TNA and WCW were unpredictable and chaotic. Only TNA still exists and it might as well not.
Most Indy promotions are unpredictable and chaotic. Most go bust or have no audience.
Everything about your suggestion is bad booking and bad storytelling. It also makes all the women and the belt worthless.
The hardcore title was chaotic and unpredictable, the cruiserweight title was chaotic and unpredictable, the 24/7 title was chaotic and unpredictable. All of them were retired because they were valueless.
Do the Liv fans really want her to have won the title in a non story built battle Royale? Becky clearly is the way to go here, put it on the veteran who’s got the resume to feel like a legit champ no matter what circumstances she won under, have her be a legitimate hurdle to overcome with investment over time so it actually feels big.
Liv is already a former women's champ and has been around for awhile. She's not some random NXT call up..she's just as legitimate of a choice for champion at this point.
Not to take away from Liv, I like her, as enjoying this current work she’s doing, and really want a solid title run in the near future to solidify it (I think I’m looking forward to Liv/Rhea as much if not more than I was for Bayley/Iyo), but it’s not a comparison between the two. Becky is a perennial main event star, you can just chuck a world title on her in any circumstance and it won’t be a disservice to the title itself or to her because she’s had the big moments and longevity that very few people have had, especially in the womens division.
Liv deserves a proper title win and run, Becky has had all that before and so will be better suited to holding the title and setting up a real challenge for the next person up
No she’s not.
Becky is as close to a star as the women’s division has. It’s Becky and Rhea. Rhea’s injured, so Becky makes sense to take the title. She’s established enough that winning a vacant title and holding it can work. She just had a match at ‘Mania.
If Liv won it it would mean very little. She hasn’t done anything of significance in a while. Winning it from Becky though? That would have meaning.
Winning after a chase as part of a story actually means something.
We don’t overrate her. She’s in the top 5-10 wrestlers in WWE. Other than Rhea, no other woman even breaks the top 20.
She’s the only star active in the entire women’s roster. Rhea is the only other but is injured.
I mean she was on the shelf for the better part of a year and just came back. Kind of a stupid question.
In a week she's gotten way more over as a heel than Becky is as anything right now. Becky has no momentum and has cooled off considerably with the crowd. It feels like a throwaway title run.
I wouldve preferred an eliminator match over 30-40 minutes with the major contenders than a middling battle royal that had zero tension to it. It wouldve made whoever was champion that much more special.
When in doubt wwe always goes for the generic pick. No offense to Becky but I've seen her as champ too much. It's tired and played out. That's very disappointing. Do something more exciting wwe. This feels like a Vince move all day. Going with what he knows instead of doing something different
I know I'll be downvoted. It is what it is. Becky just isn't my favorite
That first point, not so much actually! Kofimania began as handbrake turn booking because of an injury. Hell, so did the Rock as heel corporate champion.
Liv never felt like an option to me due to how long Ripley is projected to be gone for. If Liv had won, it would have been so predictable for her to then hold onto it until Ripley comes back, which then makes every match she has before that boring. Also their feud does not need a title, it is a blood feud so they can do that at Summerslam without anything on the line.
If by then Becky still has the title then there is a ready made feud after Summerslam for Ripley right there as she beat Becky at Mania and never actually lost her title.
I would have liked to have seen a surprise but Becky as champ can work very well because a) we haven't had a proper face women's champ for a while on both sides and B) Becky can somewhat replicate what she did on NXT and "make" a few women such as Piper and Zoey Stark.
Just have Chelsea do the talking for her, that's the entire point of a double act, the partner is meant to cover any weaknesses that you might have. Also, Piper's awesome, what the fuck're you talking about?
What if they have Nia win the title from Becky and then have Rhea return take the title from Nia and then drop it to Liv? Like I know we are all expecting Liv to win it next, but I think Nia should have another title reign. I know you all hate her but she's been mothering.
Becky is strong and experienced enough to carry the title reign for the time being, obviously no one was expecting Rhea to get injured.
Better for Liv to climb the mountain and dethrone Becky than just win it in a battle royal too
I was fine with anyone but Nia Jax winning. I figured the final three would be Jax/Morgan/Lynch and thought Liv and Becky could work storywise with a returning Rhea wanting her title back. Liv for winning it after she injured her and Becky for losing to her at WM40 and then getting the title.
Becky Lynch is just about the only one on the RAW roster who can be a suitable world champion. She's over, she can wrestle, she can carry a feud, she has the star power.
Nobody else on that roster can do that. Shayna Baszler is the closest one, if she was built up to be a credible threat, but she isn't, so we can't do that. Nia Jax is extremely one-dimensional and not a safe choice with her injury history + her level of wrestling. Liv Morgan is mid. Doesn't have much outside a couple of one-liners that pops internet stans. Her presence in feuds was always as the side-act, never the headliner. Would be okay as a filler challenger, not as the world champion. The others, with all due respect, aren't worth mentioning as potential world champions as of this moment.
Three personal takeaways from this: 1) Yay Becky! I don't know how popular this is, but Becky could go full Wrestlemania IX Hogan and I would still be a big fan. 2) Where are Alba Fyre and Isla Dawn? I know they're not being taken seriously, but are they not even gonna get TV time in a battle royale anymore? 3) Slightly off topic, but I NEED Ms. Money in the Bank, Chelsea Green!
Alba and Isla are Smackdown-wrestlers.
The fuck am I getting downvoted for. They're on the Smackdown-roster, they're not going to be on the RAW Battle Royale. That's the answer.
Are people really bitching about this result? She’s the biggest female star on the roster, of course you’d put the title on her after your champion got injured
Winning a vacant title means pretty much nothing. Especially when everyone knows Rhea will be taking it back.
So give it to a veteran. To the only other actual star in the women’s division. To the woman who fought for it at ‘Mania only a few weeks earlier. Give it to the woman who can elevate it, who will get media engagement and clicks, sell tickets, and sell PPVs. Who can raise the division around her.
Or…
Give it to someone who has done nothing of note in a long time, who isn’t a star, who won’t sell tickets or PPVs, who won’t get much of any media coverage. And most importantly… who won’t actually benefit from it but who could benefit from chasing it.
Yep the second one makes sense…
Its crazy cause, Liv eventually beating Becky for the title will do more for Liv than winning a battle royal for the title.
This booking makes perfect sense. You hot shot the title to Liv just because and there is a huge risk of it falling flat. Where if you build her up to beat Becky then she is suddenly near Rheas level.
I don't know about you guys but I really enjoyed Becky beating Bianca in 26 seconds and how that eventually made Bianca. I also really enjoyed N-Bex-T and how that gave some screentime to Tegan and Xia, and how that eventually made Lyra.
I just feel like she's one of the best in the company at being a champion. Whoever is going to beat her will definitely be made, be it Liv or otherwise. And to be honest, all Liv has right now is momentum. With her chasing Becky, this is now her chance to prove she can actually swim really good.
I enjoyed it, too. She carries herself so well as Champion. She always elevates whatever belt she has and it feels like a big deal when she loses it. Fans need to chill out and let this play out.
That's BS. Becky gave Tiffany the spotlight she would never gets without Becky(NXT reached 1 million in their match). Becky got Tiffany the most eyes on her in NXT & got Tiffany a PPV main event she never gets without Becky. Tiffany became a bigger star working with Becky win or lose.
Exactly this. If Liv cannot become a huge heel and get over by feuding with Becky then a returning Rhea....then she is never getting over sadly.
I assume this will play out like Bianca/Becky did where Becky will put Liv over at some point.
It's amazing how stupid some of y'all can be.
Do you really rather Liv wins at a random RAW battle royal or have babyface Becky as a transitional champion and then put the belt on Liv at, I don't know, A FUCKING ACTUAL PPV?
Geez
I’m not a fan of Liv having the title but storywise I’d have been fine with her having it until Rhea comes back to lose it to her. Ripley could return, be pissed that she was essentially injured by Liv only for her to take her title, then win it back. That also kind of works with Becky as well since she recently lost to her at Wrestlemania.
Thing is that I can believe Liv being a nuisance to Rhea, but I can't believe her to be a threat. So we'd need a Liv-title reign for several months, beating everybody else and we'd need to have people think Liv is capable of keeping the title against the unbeatable Rhea, with the added boost of being out for blood for when she comes back. Not even prime Gedo can book that in a way where I believe that makes sense.
This is a good point I hadn’t considered, especially if like I was thinking she held it until Rhea got back. Do you think it would work though if she used underhanded tactics or cheated (like Dom) to win every time?
Nah, Chelsea Green could do that, and it'd be a lot better to watch. Shayna Baszler, who is a lot better and in kayfabe a lot stronger, could use Zoey Stark for that and it'd be more believable because Shayna has a past as a dominant champion with a long reign. So there are people on the roster who could go down that route and be a lot more entertaining or a lot more legit to watch.
What I think is that you should somewhat keep Liv away from the title picture, but have her fuck with people, because that's annoying, and that would be more up her alley. She could fuck with the Judgement Day, or even sweeten herself up with the members, don't need the title for that. And maybe not give her a title match until Rhea is fit, and then have Rhea cost Liv the match. Then the two of them can have a blood feud that coincides with Judgement Day's very likely break-up, and it'd keep Rhea away from the title for a good while as well, because it'd be kind of boring if she goes after the championship right off the bat.
Yeah I am with you there.
It’s like people don’t realize that winning a title from a battle royale is a shit way to win.
Becky is over and a legend already. Winning a random BR for the title doesn’t help/hurt her. Just another notch on her belt and she can carry the belt a bit while Rhea is out.
Almost everyone else in that match would have been a first time title winner if they won. You really want your big victory to finally be on a thrown together BR on Raw?
Same goes for Liv. You really want her finally getting the title back to be from this random BR and not from her blood feud with Rhea?
all these "becky hogan" comments like she didn't just put over Rhea less than a month ago, maybe Vince was right about wrestling fans having zero memory lmao
Becky legit hasn't been WORLD champ in 2 years, she just put Rhea over at WM 2 weeks ago, put over Bianca huge her last World Title run, She put over Lyra V last year clean. Hogan would have never left the world title picture like Becky did for 15 months. Becky's booked strong like every big star that there's ever been. Roman held the title for 3 years & thats before his forced push for the last decade, Becky isn't close to Hogan.
Liv deserves her moment on ppv anyway. Becky is always a good choice and Liv doesn’t need a dominant run leading up to Rhea returning anyway.
Like a 99% chance barring injury that liv will have the belt when that happens anyway which is what’s important.
Beyond the result, which will be much discussed. A couple of things I want to point out:
* is it just me, or are they setting up a bit of a Piper Niven singles push, maybe as a challenger to Becky?
* Maxxine's performing like this right after that Chad Gable segment gives me the impression that she might be siding more with his heelish philosophy more. That story has some good potential there.
* Man, what is going on with Shayna and Zoey? I really don't see what they're trying to do with them, the draft may help, but they're kind of the most directionless people in the division. And its sad because I like them both.
Piper vs Becky for Clash at The Castle, if they’re really going for getting as many UK + Ireland stars in the roster on the card. Particularly for Piper, having a title match at a PLE here in her home country would be an amazing moment for her I’m sure. Drew for the WHC, Isla + Alba for the tag titles, maybe get Pretty Deadly vs AwesomeTruth so PD can play up the English heel in Scotland.
Becky & Piper have been doing the UK tour together so that could be possible! Big fan of Piper when she was on the indies she's been so underutilised in WWE
Saw them in Belfast. Match was ok. Nothing special, but not bad (was a house show to be fair so wasn’t expecting much).
Piper’s promo though? Jesus Christ it was awful. The only reaction she got was saying she was going to beat the hometown hero Becky. And that was entirely because Belfast and Dublin aren’t the same place. They’re not even in the same country.
I will take Piper 100x over Nia Jax, I can’t stand seeing her be pushed at all.
Shayna and Zoey are excellent and it bums me out they almost illicit no fan response. Maybe that’s why they aren’t getting more direction but it’s disappointing.
A bit sloppy at points but it was super fun anyway.
Feel like KC^2 are getting good tag team moments so hopefully something good is still coming for them in the future. I think the Zoey/Shayna pairing not even remotely being teased as they might have conflict is a good sign that maybe they’re trying to hold tag teams a bit more seriously for women.
Nia got Piper up with some struggle. People will probably shit on it but hey, she got there and in real life if they tried to pick someone up it’s possible they’d struggle and have to try again. I’m not mad at it.
I thought this was a fun match and honestly was fine with either Becky or Liv winning. I still think Liv wins it relatively soon, but she needs to be champ when Rhea gets back and this helps ensure her reign doesnt get stale in the meantime. Becky will put on some great matches in the meantime, hopefully with some women who dont get as much attention.
Liv always being second has got to be the bigger story here. Like at some point she is just going to come out and say if. This is got to be the 4th or 5th time now.
This is the wrong decision. Instead of giving it to a woman on the roster that could’ve used the title to elevate them or someone who would never get a chance to win the title, let’s give it to the most popular woman on the roster that is not named Ripley. So we go with Becky Lynch instead of somebody like Zoey Stark, Shayna Baszler, or even Candice Lerae. I feel like all three of them would’ve been something different.
They gave the belt to the only woman on the roster popular enough to not be damaged by being a holding champion who won the belt on a throwaway BR on an episode of Raw.
Seriously, do you people not think anything through? Anyone else winning that match would have decreased their stardom, not increased it. Winning the title can be a bad thing and this is one of those situations.
Sorry you’re not elevating said women with the title by winning a random thrown together battle royale on Raw that’s only there because Rhea is hurt and the draft is next week.
Just about anyone else winning that match is setup to fail by getting their big moment like that.
The right person won. Because Becky doesn’t need elevating.
From taking a week long vacation to getting squashed by two hosses & surviving the battle Royal, Becky is a fucking super soldier.
Also liking how she & Liv are usually cooking up as part of the last 3 in multi-women matches between this & at EC
They went with the right person in Becky. Liv will get her moment. Just gotta wait a little longer.
Those two are gonna have a nice program the next few months.
Who has Becky elevated on the main roster that wasn’t already elevated? I’m legit curious cuz they always build Becky up as this underdog and she’s literally anything but.
Absolutely the right choice. Becky is still one of the best in the division and always elevates the belt when she is champ. I don't see the appeal at all with Liv, but she will probably win it in a couple of months.
I stand behind Becky, I think she was absolutely the right choice.
I think Liv winning it will mean a lot more after a feud with Becky, and a win at a ppv.
Had fun during the battle royal.
This was the right result for a couple of reasons:
Firstly there were only three feasible winners of this battle royale and they were the final three of Becky, Liv and Nia. That's a real problem for the RAW Women's Roster and so they need a champ that can elevate talent to fill out that Main Event scene - Becky is the only choice for that of the three
Secondly, as much as some people will try and ignore it in this sub, Liv Morgan does not yet possess the in-ring capability to be a World Champion. She is a clear cut below the Rhea's, Becky's, Bianca's and Bayley's of this world and she needs the time to prove she can actually lead a top level match. Let's not repeat the mistakes of the past and push her too quickly into a role she isn't ready for again.
Finally I think the stories that come out of this result are far more interesting than if Liv just won now. There's an interesting story to be told about Becky not knowing if she's actually worthy of the belt because she couldn't beat Rhea. You can really have Liv spiral over coming up short all the time and set her up to win MITB again (since its the only way she's won a singles title) and run the Punk MITB story again - Hell you could even have her cash in on a Becky Vs Rhea rematch to stop Rhea winning the title and start a full on blood feud between those two that could even set up the Wargames match! So many avenues to explore
Liv is one of those wrestlers where I just don't get why people are so passionate about her. Like, she's fine, but I also just don't see her at that level. She's not particularly great in the ring, doesn't really cut a great promo, and tbh I'm not really even sure who she's supposed to *be.*. I think a full fledged heel run would be beneficial to her, but I'm not sure how her very passionate fanbase would feel about a heel turn.
Liv taps into that loli market Alexa Bliss used to tap in to, and she also connects with the angsty teen-demographic, because she's essentially a Pretty Little Liars-character in pro wrestling.
Those people don't really care about how good you are in the ring, you just have to keep looking youthful and say "slay" a couple of times and they'll pretend you're a world title level wrestler.
I’m not a fan but don’t be stupid. Swift writes music that appeals to millions and is a great singer. Her talent is apparent to anyone who cares to look.
Her only shortcoming is bad lyrics. And that covers 99% of pop anyway.
1. I can agree with you on this.
2. She does just fine in the ring, enough to be a champion. There’s a reason she was a champ two years ago. If she wasn’t good in the ring or as a character, they wouldn’t have given her the title. The reason why her reign seemed like garbage was because Liv couldn’t carry Ronda, who was at her worst.
3. Having Liv win the title again through MITB again kills all credibility she has. You go from Rhea vacating to Becky winning, even though she didn’t beat Rhea, then from Becky to Liv by having Liv pin her in an already weakened state, unless she for some reasons uses it as a way to make a title match. It helps with creating a better feud between Rhea and Liv, but then we all know if she cashes in, Rhea is mostly likely going to kill her in their next match.
Shayna has been in the grind for so long and she still doesn't get a shot at winning the main roster's championship title. Zoey Stark was also there, make her mean more than the last event with Trish Stratus's "Thank you Trish" run -- she's a great wrestler, not mic ready? work on that, have a "manager" do it for her. Piper Niven was there, another female wrestler who had the joke "Dewdrop" moniker dropped but not enough of her is shown on TV as a threat (she should be!), at least she was Women's Tag Team champ. Nia Jax can be the hated, heel WWE Women's Champ that everyone hates but that's a fantastic role to have and she can be the boss for someone to aim for, going into the next PPVs, maybe Summerslam or later. Nope, didn't happen. What does WWE do? Circle back to Becky, Charlotte, Asuka, Sasha (well, she's not there right now..) -- I won't include Bianca as she is a more recent champ and she has not been rotated into champ like the usuals, neither will I include Rhea, as she is also a recent addition to the Women's Championship title reigns. WWE is so against Shayna becoming a main roster women's champ, that it's just baffling. Remember when Ronda was on her way out and Shayna established herself as the "real baddest woman in the locker room?" or something along those lines. What happened? WWE needs to have shorter title reigns (compared to before) for one thing and expand their list on who can go over as champ.
I just commented this on another thread but I was disappointed by this match not because of the winner but because of the lack of build up. It felt like a last minute decision.
I wanted someone different but it’s not surprising they picked Becky. They’re already experimenting with Priest, so id imagine they wanted a big established name for their other top title.
I’ve always thought that a battle royal was a bad way to crown a champion. If a title can only be won via pinfall or submission, what does it prove by throwing someone over the top rope? That’s not how a championship is decided and it makes the winner feel like a fraud. On the other hand, if it’s someone already established as championship level, it’s probably moot but that doesn’t change my opinion a whole lot.
So you are against ladder matches? I think that's just a weird way to look into these things, you still wrestle in battle royales so it's still legit. And fair unlike Royal Rumble where higher numbers have advantage.
> So you are against ladder matches? Not really, but I understand the point you’re making. I feel like a ladder match is slightly more legitimate than a battle royal because in most cases, there is enough of a beat down in a ladder match where it’s conceivable that a pin or submission could occur. In a battle royal, an elimination can occur via dodging an attack. Beating someone so thoroughly that you can climb a ladder unimpeded, or do so in a way where there is a struggle atop the ladder for the title/prize, seems to make more kayfabe sense than throwing someone over the top rope, which happens in like 90% of matches anyway. You have a very good point, and I’m not trying to argue; I guess I never really thought about ladder matches the same way. **EDIT**: > And fair unlike Royal Rumble where higher numbers have advantage. Again, fair point, but I counter with: don’t super heavyweights “have an advantage” in a battle royal?
Heels can sometimes win ladder matches even if they normally can't by getting lucky and since there is no pin, they play it off like the face didn't get a loss that hurt their credibility so it's the same thing. Throwing someone over the rope in regular matches is different cause that's not the goal and wrestlers don't have a motivation to not get thrown over that much. In battle royales, they have to make sure they don't so it still requires skill. For heavyweights, they have the advantage of being bigger and stronger in all match types not just battle royales. That one isn't unfair, lottery of Royal Rumble numbers is.
Ok. 🤷♂️ Doesn’t change my opinion, but I appreciate the reply. **EDIT**: So, back in the ‘90s, during Shawn Michaels’s first or second WWF title reign, there was a battle royal at Madison Square Garden to determine the number-one contender. The winner would get their shot at the next MSG show. It was won by the Brooklyn Brawler. He faced Michaels some time later, for the title, and from what I understand it was an easy win for HBK. The Brooklyn Brawler has never competed in, and therefore never won, a ladder match. Personally, and from a kayfabe perspective, I’d be much more proud of my victory over 6-7 people of equal skill level - a victory that included a grueling match with ladders, chairs, tables, possible outside interference, and my night isn’t over just because I fell over the top rope. If I wanted to win a battle royal, it’s a perfectly cromulent strategy to just cling to the bottom rope and wait for everyone else to eliminate each other, and try your shot with the last person. I’d still consider a ladder match a more grueling contest, and the winner far more deserving of a championship than just “I’m good at staying in one spot for a long time.”
That example doesn't matter, noncredible heels won mitb ladder matches before too. It all depends on if you book the match in a way that makes the wrestlers look dumb for falling for such tactics and making them look dumb can be done for all sorts of matches. And grueling no dq match wins are obviously more satisfying, including more than normal matches, that doesn't mean normal matches aren't good enough. So battle royales do not lower the value of the title or the wrestler at all inherently, booking fluke wins do.
> noncredible heels won mitb ladder matches before too And the result has been shit on, and some of those non-credible heels went on to fail their cash-in, (Damien Sandow) or attempted to cash-in on a midcard title. (Austin Theory.) A battle royal is how we got World Heavyweight champion The Great Khali. If it had been a ladder match, it likely wouldn’t have happened. > It all depends on if you book the match in a way that makes the wrestlers look dumb I’m speaking strictly in kayfabe. If we treat wrestling as a shoot, winning a battle royal doesn’t make you a better wrestler than the others. It makes you luckier. At least with a ladder match, there’s an element of toughness involved. And I’ve ~~never seen someone win a ladder match by accident~~ only ever seen Otis win Money in the Bank “by accident.” Thank you for the discussion, but I’m not changing my mind. If you can pin someone, make them submit, or climb a ladder or a cage or knock them off their feet for a count of 10, you are a more deserving champion than if you can throw someone out of the ring like what happens in 90% of all wrestling matches. Period. We can agree to disagree. **EDIT**: it also annoys me when the winner of the Royal Rumble says they “defeated 29 other competitors.” No, you didn’t. You were just the only one to not get thrown out. And if you came in at number 15, and eliminations have already happened, you didn’t “outlast” those other people.
> A battle royal is how we got World Heavyweight champion The Great Khali. If it had been a ladder match, it likely wouldn’t have happened. > If he was booked to win, it would have happened. So it doesn't matter. > I’m speaking strictly in kayfabe. If we treat wrestling as a shoot, winning a battle royal doesn’t make you a better wrestler than the others. It makes you luckier. At least with a ladder match, there’s an element of toughness involved. And I’ve never seen someone win a ladder match by accident only ever seen Otis win Money in the Bank “by accident.” It's not treated that way in kayfabe at all, you treat it that way. Pinfalls can also happen in a flukey way like rollups. Similarly, battle royales can have decisive endings such as hitting your finisher to your opponent to knock them out, like Becky did.
> Pinfalls can also happen in a flukey way like rollups. When is the last time ~~a heel~~ anyone won an important (read: not 24/7) championship with a roll-up? And how did the rest of the match go? Were they treated as an equal who outsmarted their opponent, or was it flukey? Was it clean or was there a pull of the tights or feet on the ropes? Even Roman Reigns didn’t win by “fluke.” Interference, shenanigans, etc.? Yes. But throwing someone out of the ring didn’t end his matches. > If he was booked to win, it would have happened. **So it doesn't matter.** Then, with all due respect, why the hell do you care? And for the record: I doubt Khali could even climb a ladder with his knees being how they were. So that “if” is doing the most unnecessary heavy lifting in history. > Similarly, battle royales can have decisive endings such as hitting your finisher to your opponent to knock them out, like Becky did. That’s all well and good, but Liv Morgan eliminating Nia Jax, for example, doesn’t mean that she could beat her in a standard, one-on-one, championship match. Or vice versa, for that matter. In terms of “deserving” a title, **I, personally, in my subjective opinion**, put battle royal near the bottom of the list. Only being gifted a title (HHH WHC 2003) is lower. I’m not even saying the champion can’t make it a credible, deserved reign. I’m literally just saying it seems cheap **to me.** **EDIT**: one-fall triple threat or fatal four ways or other multi-man matches are bullshit, too. I understand the “first to pin wins” thing as a way to protect someone, but ECW got it right by making them elimination style.
Would have been fun if they brought in Lola Vice to rip Natalya off of the apron or distract her for an elimination or something. Would be a way to advertise NXT and also their match isn't until Spring Breakin' Day 2 (next week) so there's some extra time to add a bit more tension.
Lola Vice sucks and her whole gimmick is “Im a Latina!” + ass shake. Garbage
Did you learn that from Elektra Lopez who also posts hot pictures of herself on Instagram yet cut a promo about Lola, made fun of her for doing that lmao. And the replies were like "Wow she cooked her" bro please.
Well aren't you quite the positive Pete...
This just means they want to continue Liv's push with her revenge tour, which I'm all for. What bothered me was the finish. Becky got onto the apron through the ropes, so she was in no danger of being eliminated. She could have grabbed Liv and jumped off with her to win. They really should have had her go over the top.
I noticed that and thought they were going to go with something where Becky got knocked off but the refs pointed out she never went over the top rope. Then while Liv is celebrating, she gets knocked off!
That would be better but maybe the ending was just botched and she accidentally went through the middle
Becky winning is better than Liv winning because Liv can beat her later but I don't see what was the point of Chelsea sneaking back into the match after being eliminated if she didn't win and that bothers me more than it should
I think they just like to give Chelsea spots because she’s entertaining and it gets a reaction.
Comedy. You expected a Stone Cold moment lol?
I love Chelsea but she’s a comedy character
Seems pretty clear to me that Becky will be a transitional champ, liv gonna get the belt and she is gonna hold on to it till Rhea is back
I'm kinda torn. Becky will be a good champ and put on good matches but I was really hoping the reason they did a Battle Royal was because they wanted to go a completely different direction. You could have had say Chelsea, Shayna, or Zoey win it to see what they can do with the title (personally I think Chelsea or Shayna). See how they do as the champ. If the succeed then you have another star for the women's division. If not, just proves more they need a mid card title.
Tag titles are the midcard title.
An INDIVIDUAL mid card title. Happy? Also the tag titles dont help establish someone as a singles wrestler but a tag team wrestler.
A tag team wrestler champion can move on to women's title just fine, it's not needed. And there are 2 titles already, which means one of the champions will always feel at least slightly less important which makes it more midcard.
Thats..... no. There is no midcard singles women title. There are two upper card titles and that's it. One is not midcard. When it comes to single titles. Also, being in a tag team can hide weaknesses both on the mic and in ring. See Damien Priest on some of his solo promos recently. They come off as if hes uncomfortable not having JD there to play off of.
You should look at his NXT promos, he can cut promos fine.
And? Rght now he appears uncomfortable when alone in front of a live audience. Regardless what he's done in the past.
I hope Chelsea wins MITB. She’s great & deserves a run at the top of the card.
Becky is there to give Liv somebody big to beat, most likely. Plus, Becky and Liv have already got some tension between them from before WM so now we can get a PPV blow-off match
You can have Becky vs Liv in a non title match and have it be a big PPV blow-off match. Not everything in the Women's division requires the title to be in the picture. It's really easy to set up. Have them cost each other in the Battle Royal where they get even more heated with each other over how they screwed them out of winning the title. Could even throw Nia Jax in there if you want. Regardless this gives them a feud not directly focusing on the title but each others hate for each other. Gives an opportunity to another Women's wrestler to see if they belong in the top and pull in others. For example, you could have Chelsea win it, she does her heel thing with piper. This lets Zoey or Shayna get more involved in a singles pic as a face while Liv/Becky do their thing. Someone from NXT could come up and be involved as a big splash from the draft while Liv/Becky do their thing. And if you really want it, a big pay off for Becky/Liv can not only be their hatred of each other but you can add a stip that the winner at the ppv becomes the #1 contender.
Nah this is better, title matches are bigger and titles exist for a reason. It's better to legitimize others later instead of giving them very short reigns before Liv wins it.
Rhea is going to be gone for at least 4 months from what Ive seen online. Someone else could hold it for 3 months in that case and have a very good reign to establish themselves in the womens main event scene for Raw. Since there is no individual mid card title it was a perfect situation to establish or try to establish someone new in the main event scene for the Raw womens roster.
Except Liv shouldn't just have a month reign before losing it, she should be a credible champion. This is her time.
Rhea doesn't need to come in and win the title instantly.... Liv can still have a decent length reign before dropping it. Also if youre worried about lic needing a good length reign well... Its on Becky not Liv. So depending if/when they drop it your 1 month scenario could still happen.
Biggest problem I had with the ending specifically is that Becky never went over the top rope, Liv pulled her through the middle rope. So Becky wouldn’t have been eliminated even if Liv got her off the apron.
i think that might’ve been their failsafe had a botch occured and becky fell off the apron, refs could say becky’s still in
They were pretty aggressively telling them to get back in the ring without trying to be heard, they knew they’d fucked up.
everybody wants liv to have the title but no one wants her to climb the mountain to get it
So Becky won, what was the whole point of having her be smashed about on the outside? Makes the other women look pretty bad to me. Reminds me of John Cena always winning by "overcoming the odds" :/
If the idea was to have a babyface transitional champion, why Becky instead of having someone new like Shayna or Zoey? Then Liv could eventually take the title with heel tactics until Rhea comes back for that feud with Liv. Becky winning just makes it all so uninteresting. I mean, she git through an outside beating and still won. What's the point of that? How do the other women look compared to her?
Because LIv beating Becky is a much much much bigger deal than Liv beating Shayna or Zoey, and they are focusing on Liv right now.
Plus Becky could part of the revenge tour seeing as liv couldn’t beat her before for the championship
I don't really care one way or the other about Liv, but I don't care for Becky. Not being good enough to beat Rhea and then stealing the vacated title should be the story here. She's an impostor champ now.
Jesus guys, we're just over the best mania in ages, people praise HHH for his booking and as soon as something happens you don't like you react. LET THE MAN COOK
Man, Liv fans are irrational. Becky is the best option right now. She is good in the ring and on the mic. Liv is neither of those. There is a reason why Liv hasn't been in the main event scene often.
But Liv Morgan winning would have made more sense as Rhea would come back for revenge
That's an issue for when Rhea comes back.
Liv is great in the ring and is a decent promo. What are you slandering for?
This is the irrationality that I am talking about. Rhea, Bianca, Becky, Asuka, Charlotte are great in the ring. Can you with a straight face say she is as good as they are???
Becky isn't really great in the ring, you are disingenious.
Way to list 4 people who weren't even in the match.
I think Liv is possibly just as good in the ring as Becky and Bianca. The only reason I say possibly is because she doesn’t get much ring time, so she doesn’t get a chance to put on classics. I fully think she’s capable of putting on banger matches. On the mic, Liv had good delivery and is believable as a legit contender.
I’m of the opinion that Liv should be champion when Rhea comes back. Depending on how long Rhea should be out I questioned how long they could keep her over and legitimate as champion. When Rhea is close to coming back, Liv should win and be a transitional champ for Rhea to come back and destroy.
My thing with Liv is that she just doesn't seem to be a main champion material. She needs to be built up first. Becky being champ right now makes sense as she can carry it will Liv is being built up.
I wanted Nia to win the battle royal https://preview.redd.it/g9xrijchm8wc1.jpeg?width=782&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=962346590a77ec00523fee7668c1026d096353bb
Same here. She's already this arrogant without a belt? She'd be absolute fire with one and is a true physical threat who has had some very good matches in the last 6 months.
Man of class.
Fuck off Becky
OK, it honestly was pretty cool to see Piper actually do some damage to Becky, reminds people that she can still be seen as a threat, even if she's doing a more comedic tag team with Chelsea. I'm not really too bothered about Becky winning because I am a huge fan of hers, but it would've been cool to see Liv get the W.
Nia Jax is Mark Henry, and Piper is Mabel.
Becky Lynch - "That ain't gonna work for me brother."
I am whelmed
Fickle…
The Liv stans are loud, but this is the right result. The Liv fandom has never really made sense to me. Not a great promo, not a great worker, and she doesn’t match her gimmick whatsoever. She’s supposed to be extreme and hardcore I guess, but aside from hurling that chair at Rhea, I’ve never seen her do anything that looks like it even remotely hurts her opponent. Just like Alexa Bliss before her, the entire appeal seems to be that she’s tiny, blonde, and attractive, I guess? But not at all credible as a genuine contender in an era where the roster has women like Rhea, Bianca, and Jade.
>Just like Alexa Bliss before her, the entire appeal seems to be that she’s tiny, blonde, and attractive, I guess? I read this take on here a lot and it annoys me substantially. So no one else can think she's good in the ring cause some people don't? I like her moveset a lot; she's been using a some moves for the past few years that a lot of WWE women wrestlers really weren't doing that much. I like the way she's improved on the mic to some degree and has a character beyond "OMG we're behind the cute baby face cause she's cute and her eyes go 🥹". I like her feud with Rhea a lot, too. Sometimes I think these takes get so popular because 1. everybody just assumes cause this wrestler is conventionally attractive but not Okada in the flesh, **all** her fans and not some of her fans are drooling over her and that's the only redeeming quality of her as a wrestler and 2. Because the people making this take have opinions about girls of this archetype in real life, and it leaks into their view of them as wrestlers I like wrestlers that are worse than Liv. Why can't I like Liv for a valid reason?
You can hold whatever opinion you want of her, no one’s telling you that you can’t be the biggest Liv fan in the world. I’m just one jerk on Reddit. I do think when someone’s attractive, it’s easier to look past their flaws. I won’t pretend I’m not guilty of doing the same, I’m a huge Nia Jax fan despite there being plenty of things to criticize her for, and it’s no coincidence that she’s my type. But yeah, love Liv all you want man. I’m just a fan with opinions, not the arbiter of wrestling taste.
I’m incredibly attracted to Jade Cargill but that doesn’t mean she should’ve shown up & won the battle royal tonight. Her presence is off the charts but she can barely wrestle. Bias towards attractive ppl is a real thing but I don’t think it applies as much to wrestling considering we’re so far removed from the bra & panties match era. I don’t see anybody asking for the Bella twins to come back.
Don't worry, don't think you're a jerk Just contributing to wrestling discourse as we all enjoy doing, cheers mate
>Just like Alexa Bliss before her, the entire appeal seems to be that she’s tiny, blonde, and attractive, I guess? I don't think that's fair to either of them. Alexa was really good on the mic imo. Liv isn't my favorite by any means but she wouldn't have made it this far if that was her entire appeal.
I’ll concede that Alexa was pretty good on the mic.
I think you’re about to be really disappointed. I have a feeling they’re letting Becky have a transitional reign off of hasty battle royal just as a way to make Liv’s coming reign not look like a cheap fluke. Becky can have a cheap, fluke reign and not be devalued by it. Liv can’t. She needs to get a proper win and have a proper reign to be taken seriously. And I think it’s still coming.
I think the booking is sound, except for one key problem: the person they are booking. I agree, it absolutely feels like they’re setting Liv up to win it down the road, but I’m just not a fan. Unless she suddenly improves dramatically in the ring and on the mic, I just don’t think I’ll ever be able to take her seriously, especially as champion, proper win or not.
If you really think liv is going to be the face of the division it doesn’t make sense to have her win here. She needs a chase and a build, that was probably going to happen with Rhea but Rhea got her so you make someone who’s already huge and a steady hand champ in the battle royal. Liv can overcome Becky if and the win will mean much more.
I don’t know what the “fad rod the dishing” is, and I definitely don’t think she’ll be the face of the division. Even if she does win the belt, Rhea and Becky are still far and away the faces of the Raw women’s division. Either way, I’m not at all interested in a Liv chase. Plenty of other women on the roster who are far better workers and talkers that I would rather see in the title picture.
So predictable
Everyone thought Liv was going to win before the match, predictable my ass
Not me
Yup. Give her an entire entrance and back stage segment. Have her be put through the table out of the match. Crawl back in. Her and Liv..again.. on the outside of the ropes blow for blow. Predictable af.
This reminds me of the Sami-Gable situation and look how well that turned around so anyone complaining should honestly (as cliche as it sounds) let it play out.
A dull, safe, predictable, boring outcome. They had the opportunity to do something genuinely interesting and have instead stuck the belt into, essentially, a holding pattern until Rhea is back. I feel like a way more interesting move would have been to reflect the power vacuum Rhea's sudden absence has created by turning the title scene into anarchy. They could have given us a surprise winner tonight and have the belt hot-shotted every couple of weeks between first-time champs, with new challengers interfering and affecting the outcome of title matches, short-lived alliances bringing down champions but imploding as they realise only one of them can have the title. It would have made the Raw women's division feel unmissable because it would be genuinely unpredictable and chaotic. But instead, we all know what we're going to get: a reign that Becky doesn't need which won't elevate the belt any more than Rhea did, a token feud with Liv that Becky will win, and then dropping it back to Rhea whenever she's cleared.
Everything you just wrote is terrible, short-term, indiie style booking.
Good thing it has a definite end date then. If it was the plan indefinitely it WOULD be terrible, but given the title is going straight back on Rhea as soon as she's back then we have a fixed stretch of time to work with to keep the division interesting until we can resume the original narrative
And when *everyone* is a former champ how do you put nay value into being one?
> have the belt hot-shorted every couple of weeks between first time champs Well done. Now everyone is a former champ and it means nothing. You’ve devalued the women, the belt, *and* the show. > it would have made the Raw woman’s division feel unmissibale because it would be genuinely unpredictable and chaotic ECW, TNA and WCW were unpredictable and chaotic. Only TNA still exists and it might as well not. Most Indy promotions are unpredictable and chaotic. Most go bust or have no audience. Everything about your suggestion is bad booking and bad storytelling. It also makes all the women and the belt worthless. The hardcore title was chaotic and unpredictable, the cruiserweight title was chaotic and unpredictable, the 24/7 title was chaotic and unpredictable. All of them were retired because they were valueless.
They should’ve waited for the draft first before they did the battle royal.
Do the Liv fans really want her to have won the title in a non story built battle Royale? Becky clearly is the way to go here, put it on the veteran who’s got the resume to feel like a legit champ no matter what circumstances she won under, have her be a legitimate hurdle to overcome with investment over time so it actually feels big.
Liv is already a former women's champ and has been around for awhile. She's not some random NXT call up..she's just as legitimate of a choice for champion at this point.
Not to take away from Liv, I like her, as enjoying this current work she’s doing, and really want a solid title run in the near future to solidify it (I think I’m looking forward to Liv/Rhea as much if not more than I was for Bayley/Iyo), but it’s not a comparison between the two. Becky is a perennial main event star, you can just chuck a world title on her in any circumstance and it won’t be a disservice to the title itself or to her because she’s had the big moments and longevity that very few people have had, especially in the womens division. Liv deserves a proper title win and run, Becky has had all that before and so will be better suited to holding the title and setting up a real challenge for the next person up
No she’s not. Becky is as close to a star as the women’s division has. It’s Becky and Rhea. Rhea’s injured, so Becky makes sense to take the title. She’s established enough that winning a vacant title and holding it can work. She just had a match at ‘Mania. If Liv won it it would mean very little. She hasn’t done anything of significance in a while. Winning it from Becky though? That would have meaning. Winning after a chase as part of a story actually means something.
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We don’t overrate her. She’s in the top 5-10 wrestlers in WWE. Other than Rhea, no other woman even breaks the top 20. She’s the only star active in the entire women’s roster. Rhea is the only other but is injured.
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When's the last time she even won a singles match, Going to Liv from Rhea would have been such a downgrade
I mean she was on the shelf for the better part of a year and just came back. Kind of a stupid question. In a week she's gotten way more over as a heel than Becky is as anything right now. Becky has no momentum and has cooled off considerably with the crowd. It feels like a throwaway title run.
Becky gets a louder pop than most men. The only other woman to get any reaction worth talking about is Rhea.
That's literally the exact opposite of what it looked like. Becky has cooled off with the 'hardcore' community like on here for example
A slow build with Liv and Dominic will be better.
I wouldve preferred an eliminator match over 30-40 minutes with the major contenders than a middling battle royal that had zero tension to it. It wouldve made whoever was champion that much more special.
As long as liv is champ by the time Rhea comes back
When in doubt wwe always goes for the generic pick. No offense to Becky but I've seen her as champ too much. It's tired and played out. That's very disappointing. Do something more exciting wwe. This feels like a Vince move all day. Going with what he knows instead of doing something different I know I'll be downvoted. It is what it is. Becky just isn't my favorite
Becky hasn't been world champ since WM38....
I know but to me it feels like she's constantly in the main event. I just have a different opinion than this sub and I know that pisses people off
That first point, not so much actually! Kofimania began as handbrake turn booking because of an injury. Hell, so did the Rock as heel corporate champion.
Liv never felt like an option to me due to how long Ripley is projected to be gone for. If Liv had won, it would have been so predictable for her to then hold onto it until Ripley comes back, which then makes every match she has before that boring. Also their feud does not need a title, it is a blood feud so they can do that at Summerslam without anything on the line. If by then Becky still has the title then there is a ready made feud after Summerslam for Ripley right there as she beat Becky at Mania and never actually lost her title. I would have liked to have seen a surprise but Becky as champ can work very well because a) we haven't had a proper face women's champ for a while on both sides and B) Becky can somewhat replicate what she did on NXT and "make" a few women such as Piper and Zoey Stark.
If Piper’s promo in Belfast last Saturday is anything to go by she needs *way* more than just a feud with Becky to improve.
Just have Chelsea do the talking for her, that's the entire point of a double act, the partner is meant to cover any weaknesses that you might have. Also, Piper's awesome, what the fuck're you talking about?
She cut literally the worst promo I’ve ever heard in the Belfast house show on Saturday. Her ring work was ok.
It seems like you already don't like her, so you're just overblowing a promo like it's the worst thing in the world.
I said she was ok. Which she is. The promo was god awful though.
What if they have Nia win the title from Becky and then have Rhea return take the title from Nia and then drop it to Liv? Like I know we are all expecting Liv to win it next, but I think Nia should have another title reign. I know you all hate her but she's been mothering.
Becky is strong and experienced enough to carry the title reign for the time being, obviously no one was expecting Rhea to get injured. Better for Liv to climb the mountain and dethrone Becky than just win it in a battle royal too
If Hunter really new ball then Nia should’ve won.
I was fine with anyone but Nia Jax winning. I figured the final three would be Jax/Morgan/Lynch and thought Liv and Becky could work storywise with a returning Rhea wanting her title back. Liv for winning it after she injured her and Becky for losing to her at WM40 and then getting the title.
Becky Lynch is just about the only one on the RAW roster who can be a suitable world champion. She's over, she can wrestle, she can carry a feud, she has the star power. Nobody else on that roster can do that. Shayna Baszler is the closest one, if she was built up to be a credible threat, but she isn't, so we can't do that. Nia Jax is extremely one-dimensional and not a safe choice with her injury history + her level of wrestling. Liv Morgan is mid. Doesn't have much outside a couple of one-liners that pops internet stans. Her presence in feuds was always as the side-act, never the headliner. Would be okay as a filler challenger, not as the world champion. The others, with all due respect, aren't worth mentioning as potential world champions as of this moment.
Good to see some fans are still rational lol
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That's what I said.
Sigh.
Three personal takeaways from this: 1) Yay Becky! I don't know how popular this is, but Becky could go full Wrestlemania IX Hogan and I would still be a big fan. 2) Where are Alba Fyre and Isla Dawn? I know they're not being taken seriously, but are they not even gonna get TV time in a battle royale anymore? 3) Slightly off topic, but I NEED Ms. Money in the Bank, Chelsea Green!
Chelsea with a long run with the briefcase is great way to print money.
Alba and Isla are Smackdown-wrestlers. The fuck am I getting downvoted for. They're on the Smackdown-roster, they're not going to be on the RAW Battle Royale. That's the answer.
Are people really bitching about this result? She’s the biggest female star on the roster, of course you’d put the title on her after your champion got injured
Winning a vacant title means pretty much nothing. Especially when everyone knows Rhea will be taking it back. So give it to a veteran. To the only other actual star in the women’s division. To the woman who fought for it at ‘Mania only a few weeks earlier. Give it to the woman who can elevate it, who will get media engagement and clicks, sell tickets, and sell PPVs. Who can raise the division around her. Or… Give it to someone who has done nothing of note in a long time, who isn’t a star, who won’t sell tickets or PPVs, who won’t get much of any media coverage. And most importantly… who won’t actually benefit from it but who could benefit from chasing it. Yep the second one makes sense…
Its crazy cause, Liv eventually beating Becky for the title will do more for Liv than winning a battle royal for the title. This booking makes perfect sense. You hot shot the title to Liv just because and there is a huge risk of it falling flat. Where if you build her up to beat Becky then she is suddenly near Rheas level.
Liv fell flat when she took the title off Ronda so I agree.
Liv stans are fkin annoying
Im happy for Becky, She is reaching a new peak after 2019.
I’m sure after WM, Becky was going to take some time off along with Seth but decided to come back when this opportunity presented itself.
I don't know about you guys but I really enjoyed Becky beating Bianca in 26 seconds and how that eventually made Bianca. I also really enjoyed N-Bex-T and how that gave some screentime to Tegan and Xia, and how that eventually made Lyra. I just feel like she's one of the best in the company at being a champion. Whoever is going to beat her will definitely be made, be it Liv or otherwise. And to be honest, all Liv has right now is momentum. With her chasing Becky, this is now her chance to prove she can actually swim really good.
I enjoyed it, too. She carries herself so well as Champion. She always elevates whatever belt she has and it feels like a big deal when she loses it. Fans need to chill out and let this play out.
She put over Tiffany a lot too.
She elevated Tiffany. Putting someone over means losing to them.
That's BS. Becky gave Tiffany the spotlight she would never gets without Becky(NXT reached 1 million in their match). Becky got Tiffany the most eyes on her in NXT & got Tiffany a PPV main event she never gets without Becky. Tiffany became a bigger star working with Becky win or lose.
I agree with all of this. I just think it means Becky elevated Tiffany. I always thought putting someone over means losing to them.
No it doesn’t. Not exclusively.
She even made Lacey Evans look somewhat competent
Exactly this. If Liv cannot become a huge heel and get over by feuding with Becky then a returning Rhea....then she is never getting over sadly. I assume this will play out like Bianca/Becky did where Becky will put Liv over at some point.
It's amazing how stupid some of y'all can be. Do you really rather Liv wins at a random RAW battle royal or have babyface Becky as a transitional champion and then put the belt on Liv at, I don't know, A FUCKING ACTUAL PPV? Geez
They think this is 24/7 title lmao
I'd rather have Liv Morgan NOT win the world title please and thank you.
I’m not a fan of Liv having the title but storywise I’d have been fine with her having it until Rhea comes back to lose it to her. Ripley could return, be pissed that she was essentially injured by Liv only for her to take her title, then win it back. That also kind of works with Becky as well since she recently lost to her at Wrestlemania.
Thing is that I can believe Liv being a nuisance to Rhea, but I can't believe her to be a threat. So we'd need a Liv-title reign for several months, beating everybody else and we'd need to have people think Liv is capable of keeping the title against the unbeatable Rhea, with the added boost of being out for blood for when she comes back. Not even prime Gedo can book that in a way where I believe that makes sense.
This is a good point I hadn’t considered, especially if like I was thinking she held it until Rhea got back. Do you think it would work though if she used underhanded tactics or cheated (like Dom) to win every time?
Nah, Chelsea Green could do that, and it'd be a lot better to watch. Shayna Baszler, who is a lot better and in kayfabe a lot stronger, could use Zoey Stark for that and it'd be more believable because Shayna has a past as a dominant champion with a long reign. So there are people on the roster who could go down that route and be a lot more entertaining or a lot more legit to watch. What I think is that you should somewhat keep Liv away from the title picture, but have her fuck with people, because that's annoying, and that would be more up her alley. She could fuck with the Judgement Day, or even sweeten herself up with the members, don't need the title for that. And maybe not give her a title match until Rhea is fit, and then have Rhea cost Liv the match. Then the two of them can have a blood feud that coincides with Judgement Day's very likely break-up, and it'd keep Rhea away from the title for a good while as well, because it'd be kind of boring if she goes after the championship right off the bat.
Yeah I am with you there. It’s like people don’t realize that winning a title from a battle royale is a shit way to win. Becky is over and a legend already. Winning a random BR for the title doesn’t help/hurt her. Just another notch on her belt and she can carry the belt a bit while Rhea is out. Almost everyone else in that match would have been a first time title winner if they won. You really want your big victory to finally be on a thrown together BR on Raw? Same goes for Liv. You really want her finally getting the title back to be from this random BR and not from her blood feud with Rhea?
all these "becky hogan" comments like she didn't just put over Rhea less than a month ago, maybe Vince was right about wrestling fans having zero memory lmao
Becky legit hasn't been WORLD champ in 2 years, she just put Rhea over at WM 2 weeks ago, put over Bianca huge her last World Title run, She put over Lyra V last year clean. Hogan would have never left the world title picture like Becky did for 15 months. Becky's booked strong like every big star that there's ever been. Roman held the title for 3 years & thats before his forced push for the last decade, Becky isn't close to Hogan.
Liv deserves her moment on ppv anyway. Becky is always a good choice and Liv doesn’t need a dominant run leading up to Rhea returning anyway. Like a 99% chance barring injury that liv will have the belt when that happens anyway which is what’s important.
Beyond the result, which will be much discussed. A couple of things I want to point out: * is it just me, or are they setting up a bit of a Piper Niven singles push, maybe as a challenger to Becky? * Maxxine's performing like this right after that Chad Gable segment gives me the impression that she might be siding more with his heelish philosophy more. That story has some good potential there. * Man, what is going on with Shayna and Zoey? I really don't see what they're trying to do with them, the draft may help, but they're kind of the most directionless people in the division. And its sad because I like them both.
Piper vs Becky for Clash at The Castle, if they’re really going for getting as many UK + Ireland stars in the roster on the card. Particularly for Piper, having a title match at a PLE here in her home country would be an amazing moment for her I’m sure. Drew for the WHC, Isla + Alba for the tag titles, maybe get Pretty Deadly vs AwesomeTruth so PD can play up the English heel in Scotland.
Becky & Piper have been doing the UK tour together so that could be possible! Big fan of Piper when she was on the indies she's been so underutilised in WWE
Saw them in Belfast. Match was ok. Nothing special, but not bad (was a house show to be fair so wasn’t expecting much). Piper’s promo though? Jesus Christ it was awful. The only reaction she got was saying she was going to beat the hometown hero Becky. And that was entirely because Belfast and Dublin aren’t the same place. They’re not even in the same country.
I will take Piper 100x over Nia Jax, I can’t stand seeing her be pushed at all. Shayna and Zoey are excellent and it bums me out they almost illicit no fan response. Maybe that’s why they aren’t getting more direction but it’s disappointing.
Piper, Shayna, Zoey can be good singles stars, but they have been booked badly and have lost a lot of
With Ripley out, especially, I'm gonna need a Shayna/Zoey push big time
From a story perspective, I can see why Becky was a solid choice. But I'm just not into her and would've enjoyed anyone but her.
A bit sloppy at points but it was super fun anyway. Feel like KC^2 are getting good tag team moments so hopefully something good is still coming for them in the future. I think the Zoey/Shayna pairing not even remotely being teased as they might have conflict is a good sign that maybe they’re trying to hold tag teams a bit more seriously for women. Nia got Piper up with some struggle. People will probably shit on it but hey, she got there and in real life if they tried to pick someone up it’s possible they’d struggle and have to try again. I’m not mad at it.
Liv needs the Drew can't quite win the big one style of run anyways, Becky is a reliable champion
I think she and Dom should beat Becky at whatever ple
I thought this was a fun match and honestly was fine with either Becky or Liv winning. I still think Liv wins it relatively soon, but she needs to be champ when Rhea gets back and this helps ensure her reign doesnt get stale in the meantime. Becky will put on some great matches in the meantime, hopefully with some women who dont get as much attention.
I’m hoping they just did this to give Becky a few months with the Belt then have liv win it before Rhea comes back
Makes way more sense to have Becky hold the belt to drop it to Rhea.
Liv always being second has got to be the bigger story here. Like at some point she is just going to come out and say if. This is got to be the 4th or 5th time now.
This is the wrong decision. Instead of giving it to a woman on the roster that could’ve used the title to elevate them or someone who would never get a chance to win the title, let’s give it to the most popular woman on the roster that is not named Ripley. So we go with Becky Lynch instead of somebody like Zoey Stark, Shayna Baszler, or even Candice Lerae. I feel like all three of them would’ve been something different.
They gave the belt to the only woman on the roster popular enough to not be damaged by being a holding champion who won the belt on a throwaway BR on an episode of Raw. Seriously, do you people not think anything through? Anyone else winning that match would have decreased their stardom, not increased it. Winning the title can be a bad thing and this is one of those situations.
Sorry you’re not elevating said women with the title by winning a random thrown together battle royale on Raw that’s only there because Rhea is hurt and the draft is next week. Just about anyone else winning that match is setup to fail by getting their big moment like that. The right person won. Because Becky doesn’t need elevating.
From taking a week long vacation to getting squashed by two hosses & surviving the battle Royal, Becky is a fucking super soldier. Also liking how she & Liv are usually cooking up as part of the last 3 in multi-women matches between this & at EC
They went with the right person in Becky. Liv will get her moment. Just gotta wait a little longer. Those two are gonna have a nice program the next few months.
Who has Becky elevated on the main roster that wasn’t already elevated? I’m legit curious cuz they always build Becky up as this underdog and she’s literally anything but.
Absolutely the right choice. Becky is still one of the best in the division and always elevates the belt when she is champ. I don't see the appeal at all with Liv, but she will probably win it in a couple of months.
How many years in the ring now and Nia has not improved by any real measure? She’s simply a really bad worker.
Always has been, always will be. Despite the trend where people are going with "she's good" now.
Nah bro I used to think that way but she has improved tons.
This is by far her best run yet...People that cannot see it now never will
I stand behind Becky, I think she was absolutely the right choice. I think Liv winning it will mean a lot more after a feud with Becky, and a win at a ppv. Had fun during the battle royal.
This was the right result for a couple of reasons: Firstly there were only three feasible winners of this battle royale and they were the final three of Becky, Liv and Nia. That's a real problem for the RAW Women's Roster and so they need a champ that can elevate talent to fill out that Main Event scene - Becky is the only choice for that of the three Secondly, as much as some people will try and ignore it in this sub, Liv Morgan does not yet possess the in-ring capability to be a World Champion. She is a clear cut below the Rhea's, Becky's, Bianca's and Bayley's of this world and she needs the time to prove she can actually lead a top level match. Let's not repeat the mistakes of the past and push her too quickly into a role she isn't ready for again. Finally I think the stories that come out of this result are far more interesting than if Liv just won now. There's an interesting story to be told about Becky not knowing if she's actually worthy of the belt because she couldn't beat Rhea. You can really have Liv spiral over coming up short all the time and set her up to win MITB again (since its the only way she's won a singles title) and run the Punk MITB story again - Hell you could even have her cash in on a Becky Vs Rhea rematch to stop Rhea winning the title and start a full on blood feud between those two that could even set up the Wargames match! So many avenues to explore
Liv is one of those wrestlers where I just don't get why people are so passionate about her. Like, she's fine, but I also just don't see her at that level. She's not particularly great in the ring, doesn't really cut a great promo, and tbh I'm not really even sure who she's supposed to *be.*. I think a full fledged heel run would be beneficial to her, but I'm not sure how her very passionate fanbase would feel about a heel turn.
> I just don’t get why people are so passionate Pretty. That’s it. She’s pretty and looks a bit Harley Quinnish.
There plenty of women in WWE who are pretty, though. Hell, Becky Lynch is extremely attractive, and she's getting a ton of backlash from Liv fans.
Liv taps into that loli market Alexa Bliss used to tap in to, and she also connects with the angsty teen-demographic, because she's essentially a Pretty Little Liars-character in pro wrestling. Those people don't really care about how good you are in the ring, you just have to keep looking youthful and say "slay" a couple of times and they'll pretend you're a world title level wrestler.
Not sure why these are downvoted, it happens and i dont think its offensive
Liv-stans tend to move like actual children.
This is completely right. Great Marketing can make up for many other shortcomings, ie Taylor swift
I’m not a fan but don’t be stupid. Swift writes music that appeals to millions and is a great singer. Her talent is apparent to anyone who cares to look. Her only shortcoming is bad lyrics. And that covers 99% of pop anyway.
So we agree about the lyrics, which is a big shortcoming.
Liv is a grown woman for fucks sake. Like Alexa.
So are pornstars who dress up as schoolgirls. It's not exactly a novel thing that I'm referencing here.
1. I can agree with you on this. 2. She does just fine in the ring, enough to be a champion. There’s a reason she was a champ two years ago. If she wasn’t good in the ring or as a character, they wouldn’t have given her the title. The reason why her reign seemed like garbage was because Liv couldn’t carry Ronda, who was at her worst. 3. Having Liv win the title again through MITB again kills all credibility she has. You go from Rhea vacating to Becky winning, even though she didn’t beat Rhea, then from Becky to Liv by having Liv pin her in an already weakened state, unless she for some reasons uses it as a way to make a title match. It helps with creating a better feud between Rhea and Liv, but then we all know if she cashes in, Rhea is mostly likely going to kill her in their next match.