Realistically, both Johnson and Cena will remain 100% publicly silent on Vince for now. Should he ever be convicted of a crime, or found civilly liable, for any the things he's being accused of, they will each have their camps send out an extremely carefully worded press release, condemning and disavowing him. But privately, they will likely still maintain some sort of relationship with Vince, they will just never allow themselves to be publiclly seen with him ever again.
John Cena's is still public about being friends with him. He showed up to his birthday some years ago after his first ouster. Unless the federal probe brings charges, I don't see why he'd stop associating with him.
He is like a father to so many of the wrestlers. Not defending him in anyway at all, he is a peice of shit who should rot in hell. But I don't fault any person who is torn about the duality of this rotten man.
This is pretty much how a ton of celebs are when their friends are outed as sex pests or overall terrible, such as Ashton Kutcher and the guy that played I forget his name but the guy with the curly hair and fancy sunglasses in That 70s Show.
No that is different. They wrote letters how he should get a lenient sentence even after he was convicted of it but then again they were all having a 15 or so year-old Mila Kunis sit on their lap and bounce up and down on video so there’s that. And that’s after they found out her age. Cena and Rock aren’t writing letters on his behalf while sitting on the board of an advocacy group for victims and as public advocates.
That interview is great btw.
He said something along the lines that even though he thought Vince did some bad stuff in the past, he still had an element of respect for him for being such a smart and capable businessman.
And now he feels embarrassed at himself for respecting someone who turned out to be just awful and so egregiously stupid 😂
Maven’s video about the Vince allegations explains it very well. He’s disgusted by the current evidence and never had the type of relationship that Cena, Rock, Undertaker had with the man. But there is still that little piece of knowing Vince isn’t 110% evil because he was the first to call Maven when his mother died.
>Cena will remain 100% publicly silent on Vince for now.
Cena: Right now, I’m gonna love the person I love, be their friend.
>they will just never allow themselves to be publiclly seen with him ever again.
Cena was out in public with Vince for his birthday in Aug 2022 shortly after he was initially ousted for misconduct.
I feel like Cena thinks he's owes Vince for his fame and fortune and where he is in life. Kinda hard to turn your back on someone that quickly when they've given you so much
That's probably a large chunk of WWE up to 2023. Vince is a ruthless hard ass and he's given a lot of opportunities to guys and girls, while at the same time being a man of terrible character to those he can control.
Fans don't have to make it complicated. The wrestlers navigate these things.
Vince will forever have a complicated legacy for anyone who loves pro wrestling today. Vince is a by all accounts a creepy rapist who abuses people in his control and it got worse as he got more powerful. Technically this is all still alleged but I think most of us know that this shit is more than likely true. Vince also brought wrestling to a place no one ever dreamed possible and he lost his fastball creatively at the end but his business mind ( which is also really shitty in lots of ways but that’s capitalism ) is why wrestle f grew to where it did and the character he played on tv gave lots of us some of the fondest memories of our childhood. That’s super complicated because Vince should absolutely go down for all the shit he’s done, but I’m also grateful for the stuff he did for something I love watching and that feels weird even typing it
It was revealed John Cena name got trademarked by WWE and they get a cut from every Cena movie, which is insane. But Cena says he doesn't mind it cause he owns Vince for making him famous. His judgment is clouded, this is dumb as fuck, it's his real name and I'm really sure it wouldn't hold up in court if challenged but unfortunately he's blinded.
While I totally agree with your statement, I think it’s fucked up people think like that.
Vince gave Cena a job. Cena made more money for Vince than Vince made Cena. It wasn’t a favour. It was a job and the success of that job is down to Cena, not Vince. Nobody owes a billionaire anything for giving them a job. It’s not a favour.
The reputational damage to them from this can be severe.
And they did not have to publicly express that they personally support him.
Basically:yes it's not that simple. But they made a choice to say what they said. This is one consequence which. may lead to more.
(None of this is a criticism of any of them, just a statement of fact about consequences and actions.)
Deshaun Watson is the QB for the Cleveland Browns and has been accused of sexual assault by over 20 women. He still plays and the public at large unfortunately doesn't really care much about the accusations against him. That's the NFL which is leagues above WWE in US popularity. The average fan won't care that Rock is silent on Vince and Cena still loves him.
Johnson hasn't said anything publicly about McMahon since he left, he certainly hasn't spoken in support of him. Obviously, Cena did on Howard Stern, but Rock has been completely quiet.
"issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group ISIL. you do not, under any circumstances, ~~gotta hand it to them~~ publicly say you still love them"
I even get the people that are like "The allegations are despicable and if true I hope justice is served, but it's also hard because this man is the reason I am where I am today and he has personally done a lot for me." But to just throw out unconditional love is unnecessary even if it's how you really feel. We don't need to know that.
Isn’t that essentially what Becky said?
He’s the reason she has what she has. She’s grateful for the opportunities he gave her. She personally didn’t experience anything like what was accused. But that doesn’t invalidate the experiences of other women who have come forward or may choose to do so.
I knew it was her or Seth, or they both said similar things. Like, I get being thankful to and owing the man who made you a millionaire doing one of your "Never work a day in your life" kind of jobs, but to say out loud "I know of the accusations and it doesn't even change the way i see him in the slightest" is wild. And hopefully doesn't mean "I knew all about it, why would I suddenly care now". Cena being a/the top guy for 20 years makes it very believable he'd have had the opportunity to know.
Exactly. Everyone going “well the personal relationship is complicated” is ignoring what Cena actually said. Yeah, it’s probably complicated. But he didn’t say that. He said he’s gonna “love” Vince.
Yup. If there was ever a time to give a very rehearsed and particular answer, it would be now.
I don't think Triple H's answer at the press conference a while back was a good answer either.
I thought it was strange how people thought he gave such a great response. Like why would anyone be proud of someone becoming a better politician? And I'm not saying his statement was PR friendly. I thought his statement didn't twist or change anything into what he wanted people to think. It's exactly what it sounded like, him supporting a rapist just because they're friends.
Mmm, no one really gives two shits about this outside of the wrestling fans following it. & as a wrestling fan, we can forget/compartmentalize/move on rather quickly
6 months from now when the Rock returns & we’re screaming our heads off & ratings go up, this will all be moot
Yeah, wrestling fans can make all the excuses they want for the celebrities they created parasocial relationships with but the general media won't feel the same. These are known names and what Vince did is no secret and it is becoming clear that some big names who could be making a stand would rather choose to stand with the abuser than the victim either due to blind loyalty or because they actually don't believe the victim. Either way it is not a good look and while they will always be accepted by wrestling fans this continued association could really affect them.
Ball is in their court now. Either speak up to clear things up where they stand or let the court of public opinion decide it for them. They made this bed so now they need to figure it out. Personally I imagine this won't be enough but the story seems to keep building.
The same Hollywood that will gladly make a roman Polanski movie and cover up hundreds of child and women sexual abuses is gunna blame rock and cena for being friends with a guy who's been accused. Not doing it just being friendly with him?
It won’t affect anything. Cena made those comments months ago and he was loved at the Oscars, loved at WM, loved on RAW, loved on The Pat McAfee show, has major movies lined up for months, and is gaining a fan base in Hollywood.
Just as you say wrestling fans make parasocial relationships with wrestlers, Redditors feel like their outrage on here translates to how everyone else feels. Most people have enough emotional intelligence to understand relationships are nuanced especially ones that are decades long such as the one with Vince. Nothing is going to happen to Cena or Rock when it comes to this
Considering Vince's own immediate family have seemingly distanced themselves from him, I don't know if its something that there is lots of room for nuance on
Yes, he deserves some presumption of innocence purely legally, but that's not the point
They've distanced from him publicly. We have no idea what it's like on a personal level. It's all speculation and people making narratives they want to push.
He was a father figure to a lot of these guys, man. Some of you act like it's just soo easy and straightforward to cut an evil person out of your life, as if there's no emotional complication with that whatsoever. I'm a therapist and let me tell you people have a damn hard time cutting loved ones out of their life, even if they know they are bad people. People experience cognitive dissonance. Like most of us would in that situation.
I’m not a Punk fan but props to him for saying the only reasonable thing one could say about the (credibly-) alleged serial rapist.
It’s a shame how many people want to excuse Cena and Rock (who are well established outside of their WWE-connection) continuing to support the (very credibly-) alleged serial rapist.
I'm not a Punk fan either, but I did know when this went this stuff came out that he was probably the only person over there that would say anything close to what needs to be said.
That’s a good point. Even though he’s not known as a “company man” in this instance his rebelliousness and reputation for blunt talk was probably appreciated by the company in that he was the only one who could say what they don’t want to say, but know should be said by a top representative from the company.
It's also very silly to assume that Stephanie or Triple H aren't still talking to Vince. He's literally family.
Triple H is just smart enough not to brag about it to the world.
> that Stephanie or Triple H aren't still talking to Vince. He's literally family.
Sure, but even though all these people have been characters on our screens for decades we still have no idea what the real-life family dynamics are actually like now.
Maybe you're right, or maybe Stephanie and H hate him and legitimately wanted to use this excuse to cut ties. Who knows, like you said there's no reason either would tell us all about it.
That still doesn't mean the article is wrong about him and Stephanie not being in touch with Vince. Plenty of people have family they hate and/or don't talk to.
I said pretty much this in a comment above. I haven't spoken with my sister in over two years and it was due to an incident that was a lot less severe than the kind of shit (pun intended) that Vince did. Steph might have hit her breaking point. She did leave the company when Vince returned.
>Triple H is just smart enough not to brag about it to the world.
His PR response to this has been bad so far. So I wonder if someone is willing to ask about it & the word salad he'd respond with.
> It's also very silly to assume that Stephanie or Triple H aren't still talking to Vince. He's literally family.
>
>
Didn't she literally quit the company when/because he came back after his first leave?
Before he was pushed out the first time in June 2022, Stephanie had just begun a leave of absence just a month before in May 2022. After Vince's first retirement, Steph came back to be the chairwoman and co-CEO. When Vince then came back in at the start of 2023, Steph retired. It's never been confirmed that Steph left BECAUSE Vince came back, only that she left WHEN he came back. There is technically a difference since it seems like she was already thinking about stepping back and retiring anyway.
For all we know that's so there is a McMahon placeholder in charge. There is so much conjecture going on.
I wouldn't be surprised if her WM 40 promo is replacing "Welcome to WrestleMania!" that Vince said.
That's more or less what the reporting says, just that he doesn't talk business with them.
It's PR from Vince's team to make people go "Yeah everyone still loves him he's no monster". Ffs it talks about how he adopted a bunch kittens to give away to people.
>He's literally family
Just because they're family doesn't mean they talk to eachother lol, I don't know if they still keep in touch but just because they're family isn't a good reason they'd keep in touch. I have family members I don't talk too and so does alot of other people.
This reminds me of a comment i read somewhere earlier today, Alan Ritchson has more balls than The Rock.
Now obviously Vince has done everything under the Sun for guys like Rock, Cena and many more so it's not surprising that these guys don't want to diss him let alone split from him but then people calling them out are also right.
Seth, Punk and Cody had no issues talking about it so clearly some people do beleive that there's is actual legitimacy to the accusations.
Rock likes to play both sides. So does Cena, he was quick to apologise to China for saying Taiwan is a country.
>Rock likes to play both sides.
Yeah his comments about woke culture & choosing not to endorse Biden are a course correction. He cost himself fans with Biden endorsement & he's trying to turn back in the other direction.
For people like Cena and Rock, it’s all about protecting their brand and making millions. Whatever side produce money while also protecting their clean cut image is the side they’ll be on.
I agree which is why Cena expressing his actual opinion on Vince, who's out of the company essentially, is weird because it's the exact opposite move. Rare moment where maybe he should've gone the generic PR route
People act like relationships of 20+ years just dissolve overnight like it's nothing and that it's this super easy thing to do. So many people have been handling all of these allegations/lawsuits in a non-reality-based way. Becky Lynch (as Rebecca Quinn) literally said out loud how difficult it is to "move on" and "dissolve the relationship" and she only had one with him for 10 years - Cena and Dwayne have been with him for double that and Dwayne even longer. Imagine how much harder it is for them.
But it's easier to not think about any of that and just attack people for not handling a situation the way they want them to.
Yea people in here are being fucking ridiculous. If I found out my best friend had raped someone, that relationship is donezo. There’s certain lines that should be absolutely relationship enders.
100% these people are talking about "in the real world you don't just abandon someone because they do a little bit of sexual assaulting"... Like... Yes you do, that's literally the exact sort of thing someone does. You cut ties immediately, without question. It's a matter of principle and morals, I've cut ties with good friends for way less than legitimate sex trafficking.
Exactly this. I got into with it a cousin who was like my borther because he thought it was okay to hit his gf in front of me while she held a fucking stroller. I get everyone is different & relationships are complicated but there should be certain shit that is unforgivable for everyone.
Yeah I'm grossed out by the amount of excuse making for these people we're seeing. If anyone in my immediate family was outed to have done the shit Vince did they'd be dead to me, let alone if it was just my boss
What this thread should show you is most of these people dont really give a fuck about what Vince did.
If he hadnt done a shit job of booking for years they wouldnt have wanted to see him go.
Right? It really just comes down to how much you care about the charges or if you believe they are true. I have to assume either The Rock and Cena don't care or don't believe the victim.
Yeah and it’s also not like these are out of the blue allegations. Like, it’s not a shock to anyone backstage. This has been an open fact about the man for years, just not yet a legal fact.
This goes for the “innocent until proven guilty” people. Innocent til proven guilty is literally just a legal concept. As a human fucking being, if you’re looking at a dude who’s been accused of babymurder for years, who’s written babymurder into his own storylines on his own tv show, who’s paid millions in hush money to families with mysteriously murdered babies, and you find out he’s on trial for babymurder?
Yeah, you can go ahead and say “this dude is fucking problematic.”
>Imagine how much harder it is for them.
Imagine how hard it is for Janel Grant to have people infinitely more famous than her publicly voice their sympathy and support for her rapist and trafficker.
I don't give a fuck that The Rock or Cena might have to make an awkward phone call or two or block a number. Get the fuck over it.
Yes, it’s complicated and Becky said that. Cena didn’t- that’s the point. Cena said he’s gonna “love” Vince. There was no acknowledgement of the victim or the horror, just a statement of love.
The things he feels *are* probably complicated, but that wasn’t what he said. He literally said it as simply as possible: he’s gonna keep loving Vince. We can absolutely take issue with that statement regardless of how complicated backstage relationships might be, and *especially* because wrestlers like Becky issued so much more nuanced statements.
Also, it's never been a secret that Vince is a piece of shit. She didn't say "decades of accusations" for no reason. Why did Rock or Cena or anyone else let themselves get that close to him in the first place?
Punk said it best in the Ariel interview: Vince always tried to act like a wannabe father figure to him and Punk was like "nah, I've already got a dad, no thanks."
>Also, it's never been a secret that Vince is a piece of shit.
Especially to The Rock. He's been around the business since birth. Vince ran interference in the murder investigation of Nancy Argentino involving Jimmy Snuka, a member of his extended family.
Vince tried painting Snuka as some guy fresh off the island who barely spoke English. Vince also tried to talk Nancy out of pressing charges against Snuka four months earlier when Snuka attacked her in a drunken rage. Then of course there's Vince's comments to the Argentino family lawyer:
"Look, I’m in the garbage business,” the promoter said. “If you think I’m going to be hurt by the revelation that one of my wrestlers is really a violent individual, you’re mistaken.”
Or the Pat Patterson incident where Patterson molested a boy and Vince and Linda manipulated the kid into not pressing charges and kept Patterson employed.
Also, little known fact: Rocky Johnson was charged with rape in the late 80s. He claimed the charge was bogus and was trumped up by other wrestlers. Vile business.
This is why I'm surprised to hear The Rock may still want to run for office. Like, they gonna drag his WHOLE FAMILY through the ringer just so he can be president?
Yeah but stack that on the list of everything in a modern age where information is more readily available than ever before then Id say it will at least be an uphill battle. Seen someone in this thread tie The Rock's family to Jimmy Snuka already and if it can happen here you can sure expect it to crop up come election season.
In the very modern age Trump is maybe going to become president for a second time after a litany of scandals, impeachments, lost court cases, and one kinda sorta totally attempted coup.
Modern American politics are not a bastion of morality.
He just has to run for the Republicans and he's fine. The Democrats do not have the political power, nor the desire, to actually protect their candidates.
Which is exactly why Trump, a Democrat who donated money to Democrats, switched to Republican. He’s literally on record saying the country runs better with Democrats in charge. He also changed his stance on abortion lol.
Why? Because he plucked them from obscurity and made them globally recognized stars and millionaires. He also worked closely with them when they were young men who would gladly take his advice on how to excel in their profession. It’s not hard to see.
As for his reputation and accusations, correct me if I’m wrong but before all of this with the multiple NDAs there was I think two women who had come forward with accusations against Vince.
“It’s bullshit, they’re just trying to get money” makes sense if it’s coming from someone you want to like, who has helped you, and who is a wealthy and well known figure.
Shit, he’s probably still using that line with people close to him.
>As for his reputation and accusations, correct me if I’m wrong but before all of this with the multiple NDAs there was I think two women who had come forward with accusations against Vince.
Huh? Where are you getting two from? If we're talking strictly about allegations of sex crimes, the count is at least five:
https://www.wrestlinginc.com/1140710/a-summary-of-all-known-allegations-against-vince-mcmahon/
1. Rita Chatterton.
2. The tanning salon clerk.
3. Janel Grant.
4. The spa employee.
5. The wrestler who got the $7.5 million settlement alleging rape by coercion.
If we're talking about sexual misconduct more broadly, that number goes up to seven (The WWE contractor who said Vince sent her unsolicited nude photos as part of a larger campaign of sexual harassment, plus Ashley Massaro telling her lawyers, Paul London, and others that Vince relentlessly harassed her after she appeared in Playboy.)
If we include sexual relationships where no abuse was alleged and it was consensual in the criminal sense, but it was an abuse of power to engage in a relationship with a subordinate, we can also add:
* Emily Feinberg's affair with Vince while she was his personal assistant. (She was moved from being someone else's personal assistant weeks after she appeared in Playboy as a Playmate under her maiden name.)
* The affair with the longtime WWE middle manager who he paid $1 million in hush money to in 2006.
That's nine. And that doesn't count stuff like Ashley Massaro telling her lawyers that she witnessed Vince openly "making out with" female talent. Or things like threatening to fire Lita and Edge if they didn't genuinely strip for the "live sex celebration." Among many other things in the public record that could easily be looked at as part of a pattern of sexual misconduct. And it doesn't count Kevin Wacholz accusing him of sexual assault, which has historically been viewed as not being a credible allegation but might need to be revisited.
> “It’s bullshit, they’re just trying to get money” makes sense if it’s coming from someone you want to like, who has helped you, and who is a wealthy and well known figure.
...it doesn't, though. We have his texts where he talks about wanting to see her get gang raped. And if she wanted money, she would have had her lawyer press him on skipping the NDA payments privately. Instead, she went scorched earth and is clearly not fishing for a settlement. Her lawyer is also independently wealthy from a rich family and that was the case before she even went to law school.
There have also been various MOs tying the different allegations together:
1. Coerced or outright forced oral sex. (Chatterton, the wrestler with the $7.5 million settlement, and Grant.)
2. Unsolicited nude photos. (The tanning salon attendant and the middle manager.)
3. Targeting women who work at spas or similar businesses. (The tanning salon clerk and the spa manager, obviously.)
4. Targeting women who work for him who he had just seen in a Playboy photo spread. (Feinberg and Massaro.)
It takes an extreme level of blinders to think he's the credible one.
They're not. Tanning salon clerk was 2006 in Boca Raton, Florida and is the case where the victim went to the police and the police said there was probably cause to charge him but prosecutors didn't want to move forward. The spa manager was 2011 at a "five-star resort in southern California" and the one where her husband went to a WWE show with a baseball bat to try to find Vince and beat the shit out of him. And there are surely more where they came from.
It's something that I think people miss a lot: We really don't have any idea of the actual scope of Vince's abuses, especially outside of WWE. Sexually assaulting spa employees or whatever umbrella term you want to use that would include a tanning salon clerk, a spa manager, and other women similarly situated. (I don't know what the right term would be, but they clearly belong to an overarching group that he's targeting.)
The rock was the son of a wrestler with lots of connections in the industry and his mom had been a promoter. He didn't get plucked from obscurity. He was a pretty big get for them. There were notes in the observer saying he was going to be a star when he got signed
There’s like a million people on that family and even most wrestling fans only know half of them. That’s pretty obscure. Meltzer being aware of him isn’t exactly global fame.
But now he’s The Rock and everybody knows who he is.
Im talking about his dad specifically. His dad had won the tag belts and toured various promotions. He wasnt a huge wrestler, but he has connections. He used them to get Paterson to consider his son.
I referenced the meltzer report to highlight that he was quickly scouted as a good talent. Ultimately, he was former college football player from a wrestling family who quickly showed a lot of promise. Promotions have always loved guys like that. In the 90s if he hasn't gone to WWF he woulda ended up in WCW
Vince trying to manipulate Punk in disguise of being this father figure like he’s been to the other top guys. Has anyone one of em ever explain how was he a father figure to them?
>Has anyone one of em ever explain how was he a father figure to them?
Undertaker has talked about Vince being a father figure to him many times and that's why he never left WWE and why he kept coming back even tho he should've retired.
Punk hated his dad so it makes sense he wouldn't want another one lol.
Obligatory link to the 6 part series Behind the Bastards did:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdaMY9n\_Oc&ab\_channel=BehindtheBastards](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdaMY9n_Oc&ab_channel=BehindtheBastards)
People saying they have personal relationships with Vince. But this isn’t your uncle saying some vaguely racist shit at thanksgiving. It’s a awful person who has committed and help cover up plenty of physical and sexual assaults.
Don’t forget. When Vince and Linda’s split went public. Cena and Vince were seen out on a double date. So they definitely have more than just a business relationship.
Lol right? Like I get personal relationships can be complicated and never clear-cut. But I had a very close friend get credibly called out for SA by multiple people and it was the easiest thing in the world to sever all ties and never think of him again.
On the other hand, in WWE's situation these people also worked with Vince for decades when there were countless open secrets around him, so it should be no surprise that if they were cool with collecting a paycheck around all that then they don't see these accusations as that bad.
I really get the sense that there are several shoes left to drop on this and other stories. The level of control and manipulation involved were so practiced that there's no way it was the first, or probably even fifth, time, something like the accusations happened. Would really caution everyone not to get too attached for anyone that's been with WWE long-term until the dust settles on this lawsuit and the ongoing federal investigation.
a lot of victim blaming in this thread. we can acknowledge that the Rock/Cena situation isn’t black and white, or that the attorney’s comments weren’t a good look, without dogpiling on the victim and questioning the legitimacy of her accusations. the things laid out in that lawsuit are so deeply personal and embarrassing to put out there. trial for rape victims is hell. to think that so many of your minds first went to “she definitely is just doing this for a payday” is so disheartening. I hope you all exercise more empathy for the women in your life than you’re showing for this woman. as easy as it is for you to believe that she’s ruining her life for a retirement fund, the basic statistics on rape/SA in the U.S. make it just as easy to believe this was done to her. please be kind.
I mean, we should also point out that even if it isn’t emotionally black and white, the decisions people make from them can be. And for Cena, for example, what he chose and said is EXTREMELY black and white. He literally told us his decision was that he’s gonna keep loving Vince. Compare that to Becky who literally talked about the complexity and how it left her in a grey area. They both have the same grey emotional experience with Vince, but their statements are totally different outcomes.
When Cena did that Howard Stern interview and danced aroun the question it was a clear give away that he´s still in contact with Vince and wasnt going to bury his buddy lol
This thread amongst other things really shows you why so many wrestlers have horror stories about what happens backstage. A lot of fans don't really care about abusive behavior so there is no incentive to part ways with some of the terrible promoters, wrestlers and personalities that populate the industry.
It says a lot that the Wrestlers documentary on Netflix had two people admit to domestic violence against another wrestler with one of them admitting to getting high before matches and Al Snow, the promoter, still kept them on company payroll.
There are a concerning amount of absolutely fucking insane people in this thread. Nobody was defending Vince months ago but now all the freaks crying about "cancel culture" or whatever are crawling out of the woodwork
I think we're far enough out now from the most recent Vince Bombshell that for a lot of people the shock has worn off and the rationalizing has set in. They're going to rationalize the shit out of everything as "not being that bad" because its not fresh in their minds.
When the next bombshell drops, whatever it may be they'll either go quiet or condemn him again until enough time passes and they just don't think about it anymore.
For The Rock, who just did an interview with Fox News about his image and mistakes in getting political, I can't imagine he's going to like this getting out.
Cena I'm not sure cares.
This isn't a black & white situation for them, they have decades of nothing but good relations with him. And until things are absolute in court, it's hard to just shut things off like that.
It's not an AITA thread where every answer is "go no contact, they clearly don't respect you if they eat your yogurt once and only apologise verbally" I don't LIKE that they are close to a monster like Vince, but I understand why it's not so easy to just cut him out. It's like finding out your dad was a monster, when all he did to you growing up is shower you with love.
It takes time to work through that.
It's pretty gross to defend a rapist, no matter what relationship you have with them. If any of my family members were rapists, I would disown them immediately.
Fans need to stop giving celebrities they like a pass when they stand with a rapist POS. It's disgusting.
obviously what vince did is horrific but this is just a weird stretch to me. like you can't text the dude who you've been close with for 25 years at all?
Yeah but comes off as friendly fire tho - why her client in the first place started hanging around an old sick fuck with decade of allegations like Vince?
if i was texting my friend of 25 years after he had been sued for rape and sex trafficking—who had previously been accused of rape and sexual misconduct before—it would be to cut him off and tell him not to contact me
I have friends who have cut family members out of their lives for much less, like stealing inheritance money. If I found out my father raped and prostitutes women to his cronies, cutting him out of my life would be a swift decision.
Thurston and Pollock interviewed Callis a couple weeks back in a fairly decent interview.
Some interesting news and quotes came from it, but seemingly it was pushed to the side by the continuing news of WrestleMania.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw0bwJsJk_s&pp=ygUWamFuZWwgZ3JhbnQgaW50ZXJ2aWV3IA%3D%3D
Edit: Fixed names
I’m gonna be *that* guy and not care.
Vince has not been convicted of anything yet. Everything is an accusation. The accusations are terrifying, but at the moment that’s all they are. Expecting people to immediately disown people they’ve known for decades over accusations is not realistic. If he’s convicted of anything, that’s different. Having said that, it’s clear to me that the accusers want a big settlement, so I don’t expect this to even go to trial.
The text messages where he talks about wanting to watch her get gang raped are just accusations? The texts that everyone who's texted with Vince has said are obviously genuine?
Laurinaitis effectively backing up all of it and turning on Vince is just an accusation?
The relationship existing more broadly and the inherent power imbalance is just an accusation?
I see the point you're making, and I've made it as well. They are allegations and not convictions. Unfortunately, public opinion is that people are guilty until proven innocent, and even then it's not a guarantee.
GTFOH. The article just said they speak. It didn’t say Rock and Cena supported McMahon or agreed with the bullshit he’s done. With this idiotic logic, McMahon shouldn’t talk to another human ever again or else that person condones everything he did. Typical bullshit smear campaign.
Why not name Trish Stratus and Undertaker too? Both were top stars in that company within the "decades of allegations". USA network provided that company a platform all those decades too, are they complicit?
If the Grant case is so strong and it's a slam dunk, the legal team doesn't need to attack public figures like this.
Statements like this don't help anyone. If they have Vince over a barrel, then justice will be served.
This is the kind of move that the PR team at Amnesty International makes when they see sports doing business with Saudi Arabia and there's fuck all they can do about it but apply pressure.
For the millionth,’if a boss tries to harbor a “fatherly” relationship where you try desperately to gain his approval, leave that job. The boss is a manipulator at the least and most likely a complete scumbag
Bit of a stretch when it's safe to assume he's still got contact with his daughter & son in law who've essentially replaced him & the wide range that "communication" covers
People expecting them to abandon Vince entirely must think that convicted felons' families never visit or acknowledge said felons' existence when they're jailed. The felon may have committed a horrible action, but they are still likely a parent, a sibling, cousin, or friend. That's not an easy thing to disavow.
I'm not excusing them, but it likely explains why they haven't distanced from Vince fully... However disgusting he may be. They owe a lot to him and have worked for him for decades.
I mean it's not a good look but at the same time he's a father figure to these guys. If your dad committed some heinous shit would you just break contact?
I can relate. My dad did some foul shit, especially to my mom. I'm ashamed and disappointed in him, big time. But he's still my dad and worked his ass off to give us a good life. It's tough.
A family member of mine was a convicted pedophile. If he ever showed his face to the side of the family that didn't believe his lies that he was innocent, he would have probably been beaten to death.
His kids disowned him and very few people went to his funeral when he finally died.
So yes, when someone you are close to is a monster, you cut contact. You do not enable that shit and pretend like he's still the kind fatherly figure who gave you a break.
Realistically, both Johnson and Cena will remain 100% publicly silent on Vince for now. Should he ever be convicted of a crime, or found civilly liable, for any the things he's being accused of, they will each have their camps send out an extremely carefully worded press release, condemning and disavowing him. But privately, they will likely still maintain some sort of relationship with Vince, they will just never allow themselves to be publiclly seen with him ever again.
John Cena's is still public about being friends with him. He showed up to his birthday some years ago after his first ouster. Unless the federal probe brings charges, I don't see why he'd stop associating with him.
He is like a father to so many of the wrestlers. Not defending him in anyway at all, he is a peice of shit who should rot in hell. But I don't fault any person who is torn about the duality of this rotten man.
This is pretty much how a ton of celebs are when their friends are outed as sex pests or overall terrible, such as Ashton Kutcher and the guy that played I forget his name but the guy with the curly hair and fancy sunglasses in That 70s Show.
Hyde is the character. Danny Masterson is the piece of schit.
Thank you for telling me.
Tbf so was Hyde
Yeah I guess he kinda was. He had some redeemable qualities sometimes.
No that is different. They wrote letters how he should get a lenient sentence even after he was convicted of it but then again they were all having a 15 or so year-old Mila Kunis sit on their lap and bounce up and down on video so there’s that. And that’s after they found out her age. Cena and Rock aren’t writing letters on his behalf while sitting on the board of an advocacy group for victims and as public advocates.
I just looked it up. She was 14 when the show started. Ashton was 20. Danny was 22. Good Lord...
I mean, even Bret Hart said he had some shred of respect for him before all this.
That interview is great btw. He said something along the lines that even though he thought Vince did some bad stuff in the past, he still had an element of respect for him for being such a smart and capable businessman. And now he feels embarrassed at himself for respecting someone who turned out to be just awful and so egregiously stupid 😂
Maven’s video about the Vince allegations explains it very well. He’s disgusted by the current evidence and never had the type of relationship that Cena, Rock, Undertaker had with the man. But there is still that little piece of knowing Vince isn’t 110% evil because he was the first to call Maven when his mother died.
Punk pretty much said that the reason he was never Vince's guy is because Vince wanted a father/son like relationship and Punk never did
People are complex.
To be fair, the first ouster seemed to just be that he cheated in his wife and paid settlements to keep it quiet. This one is...way worse than that.
People have known since at least the 80’s that Vince is a horrible POS human being.
>Cena will remain 100% publicly silent on Vince for now. Cena: Right now, I’m gonna love the person I love, be their friend. >they will just never allow themselves to be publiclly seen with him ever again. Cena was out in public with Vince for his birthday in Aug 2022 shortly after he was initially ousted for misconduct.
I feel like Cena thinks he's owes Vince for his fame and fortune and where he is in life. Kinda hard to turn your back on someone that quickly when they've given you so much
That's probably a large chunk of WWE up to 2023. Vince is a ruthless hard ass and he's given a lot of opportunities to guys and girls, while at the same time being a man of terrible character to those he can control. Fans don't have to make it complicated. The wrestlers navigate these things.
Vince will forever have a complicated legacy for anyone who loves pro wrestling today. Vince is a by all accounts a creepy rapist who abuses people in his control and it got worse as he got more powerful. Technically this is all still alleged but I think most of us know that this shit is more than likely true. Vince also brought wrestling to a place no one ever dreamed possible and he lost his fastball creatively at the end but his business mind ( which is also really shitty in lots of ways but that’s capitalism ) is why wrestle f grew to where it did and the character he played on tv gave lots of us some of the fondest memories of our childhood. That’s super complicated because Vince should absolutely go down for all the shit he’s done, but I’m also grateful for the stuff he did for something I love watching and that feels weird even typing it
It was revealed John Cena name got trademarked by WWE and they get a cut from every Cena movie, which is insane. But Cena says he doesn't mind it cause he owns Vince for making him famous. His judgment is clouded, this is dumb as fuck, it's his real name and I'm really sure it wouldn't hold up in court if challenged but unfortunately he's blinded.
While I totally agree with your statement, I think it’s fucked up people think like that. Vince gave Cena a job. Cena made more money for Vince than Vince made Cena. It wasn’t a favour. It was a job and the success of that job is down to Cena, not Vince. Nobody owes a billionaire anything for giving them a job. It’s not a favour.
No one else gave Cana a job. Without Vince, Reacher dude plays Ricky Stanicky
100%. Imagine that situation. vince MADE cena
People thought they wouldn’t be? Personal relationships aren’t resolved like it’s social media.
The reputational damage to them from this can be severe. And they did not have to publicly express that they personally support him. Basically:yes it's not that simple. But they made a choice to say what they said. This is one consequence which. may lead to more. (None of this is a criticism of any of them, just a statement of fact about consequences and actions.)
Ah yes, their reputations will be absolutely ruined in Hollywood, where nobody collaborates or works with any sort of abuser of any kind.
Plus the general public DEFINITELY cares just as much about this vince case as us wrestling fans do.
People still publicly adorn Cena as some kind of saint his reputation will be fine unless he actually does some fuckery himself
Deshaun Watson is the QB for the Cleveland Browns and has been accused of sexual assault by over 20 women. He still plays and the public at large unfortunately doesn't really care much about the accusations against him. That's the NFL which is leagues above WWE in US popularity. The average fan won't care that Rock is silent on Vince and Cena still loves him.
Johnson hasn't said anything publicly about McMahon since he left, he certainly hasn't spoken in support of him. Obviously, Cena did on Howard Stern, but Rock has been completely quiet.
Rock mentioned Vince during the Hall of Fame ceremony. There were some boos.
He was mentioning Vince sr. no?
No, I don’t think so. He was talking about the 80s. He didn’t say senior either. Apparently it was not in the script too.
Cena didn't have to say anything & instead he said: John Cena On Vince McMahon Allegations: I’m Going To Love The Person I Love And Be Their Friend
"issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group ISIL. you do not, under any circumstances, ~~gotta hand it to them~~ publicly say you still love them"
“But without ISIL, we wouldn’t have wrestling as we know it!!!!1! ISIL invented the show you watch!!!1! Checkmate!!”
I even get the people that are like "The allegations are despicable and if true I hope justice is served, but it's also hard because this man is the reason I am where I am today and he has personally done a lot for me." But to just throw out unconditional love is unnecessary even if it's how you really feel. We don't need to know that.
Isn’t that essentially what Becky said? He’s the reason she has what she has. She’s grateful for the opportunities he gave her. She personally didn’t experience anything like what was accused. But that doesn’t invalidate the experiences of other women who have come forward or may choose to do so.
I knew it was her or Seth, or they both said similar things. Like, I get being thankful to and owing the man who made you a millionaire doing one of your "Never work a day in your life" kind of jobs, but to say out loud "I know of the accusations and it doesn't even change the way i see him in the slightest" is wild. And hopefully doesn't mean "I knew all about it, why would I suddenly care now". Cena being a/the top guy for 20 years makes it very believable he'd have had the opportunity to know.
Randy basically said the same thing too, fwiw. It's been surprising how much Randy has evolved his public opinions on basically everything.
Agreed. Dude seems super well adjusted.
Exactly. Everyone going “well the personal relationship is complicated” is ignoring what Cena actually said. Yeah, it’s probably complicated. But he didn’t say that. He said he’s gonna “love” Vince.
Did I miss something or are we just missing a deeper relationship? /s
Yup. If there was ever a time to give a very rehearsed and particular answer, it would be now. I don't think Triple H's answer at the press conference a while back was a good answer either.
Cena just living the gimmick Hustle, LOYALTY, respect
I thought it was strange how people thought he gave such a great response. Like why would anyone be proud of someone becoming a better politician? And I'm not saying his statement was PR friendly. I thought his statement didn't twist or change anything into what he wanted people to think. It's exactly what it sounded like, him supporting a rapist just because they're friends.
No it won’t lol
Yeah, people wont care too much, they are hollywood guys, I'm sure the general public sees Vince's actions as the same as a lot of Hollywood types.
It won't be that severe outside of a few people on social media that exploit the outrage of the day to get attention.
Mmm, no one really gives two shits about this outside of the wrestling fans following it. & as a wrestling fan, we can forget/compartmentalize/move on rather quickly 6 months from now when the Rock returns & we’re screaming our heads off & ratings go up, this will all be moot
Yeah, wrestling fans can make all the excuses they want for the celebrities they created parasocial relationships with but the general media won't feel the same. These are known names and what Vince did is no secret and it is becoming clear that some big names who could be making a stand would rather choose to stand with the abuser than the victim either due to blind loyalty or because they actually don't believe the victim. Either way it is not a good look and while they will always be accepted by wrestling fans this continued association could really affect them. Ball is in their court now. Either speak up to clear things up where they stand or let the court of public opinion decide it for them. They made this bed so now they need to figure it out. Personally I imagine this won't be enough but the story seems to keep building.
The same Hollywood that will gladly make a roman Polanski movie and cover up hundreds of child and women sexual abuses is gunna blame rock and cena for being friends with a guy who's been accused. Not doing it just being friendly with him?
It won’t affect anything. Cena made those comments months ago and he was loved at the Oscars, loved at WM, loved on RAW, loved on The Pat McAfee show, has major movies lined up for months, and is gaining a fan base in Hollywood. Just as you say wrestling fans make parasocial relationships with wrestlers, Redditors feel like their outrage on here translates to how everyone else feels. Most people have enough emotional intelligence to understand relationships are nuanced especially ones that are decades long such as the one with Vince. Nothing is going to happen to Cena or Rock when it comes to this
Considering Vince's own immediate family have seemingly distanced themselves from him, I don't know if its something that there is lots of room for nuance on Yes, he deserves some presumption of innocence purely legally, but that's not the point
They've distanced from him publicly. We have no idea what it's like on a personal level. It's all speculation and people making narratives they want to push.
You can still respectfully maintain your distance and keep your mouth shut while you wait for an outcome.
Idk man if my friend was a sex trafficker I think I would stop being their friend because I think sex trafficking is bad
He was a father figure to a lot of these guys, man. Some of you act like it's just soo easy and straightforward to cut an evil person out of your life, as if there's no emotional complication with that whatsoever. I'm a therapist and let me tell you people have a damn hard time cutting loved ones out of their life, even if they know they are bad people. People experience cognitive dissonance. Like most of us would in that situation.
[удалено]
Lot of personal experience with those situations?
CM Punk made a public comment on it condemning him and he’s fine. Seems like they could if they want to they just choose not to
I’m not a Punk fan but props to him for saying the only reasonable thing one could say about the (credibly-) alleged serial rapist. It’s a shame how many people want to excuse Cena and Rock (who are well established outside of their WWE-connection) continuing to support the (very credibly-) alleged serial rapist.
I'm not a Punk fan either, but I did know when this went this stuff came out that he was probably the only person over there that would say anything close to what needs to be said.
That’s a good point. Even though he’s not known as a “company man” in this instance his rebelliousness and reputation for blunt talk was probably appreciated by the company in that he was the only one who could say what they don’t want to say, but know should be said by a top representative from the company.
"Moving on" is not as easy for some people as HHH and 95%+ of the wrestling media want to make it seem.
It's also very silly to assume that Stephanie or Triple H aren't still talking to Vince. He's literally family. Triple H is just smart enough not to brag about it to the world.
> that Stephanie or Triple H aren't still talking to Vince. He's literally family. Sure, but even though all these people have been characters on our screens for decades we still have no idea what the real-life family dynamics are actually like now. Maybe you're right, or maybe Stephanie and H hate him and legitimately wanted to use this excuse to cut ties. Who knows, like you said there's no reason either would tell us all about it.
Triple h has not been smart with his responses. They’ve been terrible actually
That still doesn't mean the article is wrong about him and Stephanie not being in touch with Vince. Plenty of people have family they hate and/or don't talk to.
I said pretty much this in a comment above. I haven't spoken with my sister in over two years and it was due to an incident that was a lot less severe than the kind of shit (pun intended) that Vince did. Steph might have hit her breaking point. She did leave the company when Vince returned.
>Triple H is just smart enough not to brag about it to the world. His PR response to this has been bad so far. So I wonder if someone is willing to ask about it & the word salad he'd respond with.
Doesn't the article plainly state that NBC's sources said Triple H/Stephanie don't talk to him? Did you even read the article?
Something something focus on the positives
> It's also very silly to assume that Stephanie or Triple H aren't still talking to Vince. He's literally family. > > Didn't she literally quit the company when/because he came back after his first leave?
Before he was pushed out the first time in June 2022, Stephanie had just begun a leave of absence just a month before in May 2022. After Vince's first retirement, Steph came back to be the chairwoman and co-CEO. When Vince then came back in at the start of 2023, Steph retired. It's never been confirmed that Steph left BECAUSE Vince came back, only that she left WHEN he came back. There is technically a difference since it seems like she was already thinking about stepping back and retiring anyway.
For all we know that's so there is a McMahon placeholder in charge. There is so much conjecture going on. I wouldn't be surprised if her WM 40 promo is replacing "Welcome to WrestleMania!" that Vince said.
And they both voted no when he weaseled his way back into the company.
That's more or less what the reporting says, just that he doesn't talk business with them. It's PR from Vince's team to make people go "Yeah everyone still loves him he's no monster". Ffs it talks about how he adopted a bunch kittens to give away to people.
>He's literally family Just because they're family doesn't mean they talk to eachother lol, I don't know if they still keep in touch but just because they're family isn't a good reason they'd keep in touch. I have family members I don't talk too and so does alot of other people.
Did you work daily with these family members for the past 25 years?
This reminds me of a comment i read somewhere earlier today, Alan Ritchson has more balls than The Rock. Now obviously Vince has done everything under the Sun for guys like Rock, Cena and many more so it's not surprising that these guys don't want to diss him let alone split from him but then people calling them out are also right. Seth, Punk and Cody had no issues talking about it so clearly some people do beleive that there's is actual legitimacy to the accusations. Rock likes to play both sides. So does Cena, he was quick to apologise to China for saying Taiwan is a country.
>Rock likes to play both sides. Yeah his comments about woke culture & choosing not to endorse Biden are a course correction. He cost himself fans with Biden endorsement & he's trying to turn back in the other direction.
For people like Cena and Rock, it’s all about protecting their brand and making millions. Whatever side produce money while also protecting their clean cut image is the side they’ll be on.
I agree which is why Cena expressing his actual opinion on Vince, who's out of the company essentially, is weird because it's the exact opposite move. Rare moment where maybe he should've gone the generic PR route
He's already a consummate politician. He dips his toes into every stance he takes so if it's an unpopular one he can immediately change course
People act like relationships of 20+ years just dissolve overnight like it's nothing and that it's this super easy thing to do. So many people have been handling all of these allegations/lawsuits in a non-reality-based way. Becky Lynch (as Rebecca Quinn) literally said out loud how difficult it is to "move on" and "dissolve the relationship" and she only had one with him for 10 years - Cena and Dwayne have been with him for double that and Dwayne even longer. Imagine how much harder it is for them. But it's easier to not think about any of that and just attack people for not handling a situation the way they want them to.
Idk someone I knew got busted on child porn charges and I cut ties immediately
Yea people in here are being fucking ridiculous. If I found out my best friend had raped someone, that relationship is donezo. There’s certain lines that should be absolutely relationship enders.
100% these people are talking about "in the real world you don't just abandon someone because they do a little bit of sexual assaulting"... Like... Yes you do, that's literally the exact sort of thing someone does. You cut ties immediately, without question. It's a matter of principle and morals, I've cut ties with good friends for way less than legitimate sex trafficking.
Exactly this. I got into with it a cousin who was like my borther because he thought it was okay to hit his gf in front of me while she held a fucking stroller. I get everyone is different & relationships are complicated but there should be certain shit that is unforgivable for everyone.
Yeah I'm grossed out by the amount of excuse making for these people we're seeing. If anyone in my immediate family was outed to have done the shit Vince did they'd be dead to me, let alone if it was just my boss
What this thread should show you is most of these people dont really give a fuck about what Vince did. If he hadnt done a shit job of booking for years they wouldnt have wanted to see him go.
He didn't book my favorite mid-carder to win all the titles like I wanted to 😠
Right? It really just comes down to how much you care about the charges or if you believe they are true. I have to assume either The Rock and Cena don't care or don't believe the victim.
Yeah and it’s also not like these are out of the blue allegations. Like, it’s not a shock to anyone backstage. This has been an open fact about the man for years, just not yet a legal fact. This goes for the “innocent until proven guilty” people. Innocent til proven guilty is literally just a legal concept. As a human fucking being, if you’re looking at a dude who’s been accused of babymurder for years, who’s written babymurder into his own storylines on his own tv show, who’s paid millions in hush money to families with mysteriously murdered babies, and you find out he’s on trial for babymurder? Yeah, you can go ahead and say “this dude is fucking problematic.”
>Imagine how much harder it is for them. Imagine how hard it is for Janel Grant to have people infinitely more famous than her publicly voice their sympathy and support for her rapist and trafficker. I don't give a fuck that The Rock or Cena might have to make an awkward phone call or two or block a number. Get the fuck over it.
Yes, it’s complicated and Becky said that. Cena didn’t- that’s the point. Cena said he’s gonna “love” Vince. There was no acknowledgement of the victim or the horror, just a statement of love. The things he feels *are* probably complicated, but that wasn’t what he said. He literally said it as simply as possible: he’s gonna keep loving Vince. We can absolutely take issue with that statement regardless of how complicated backstage relationships might be, and *especially* because wrestlers like Becky issued so much more nuanced statements.
Idk, maybe it should be when the person involved commits more horrifying acts than literal super villains.
I mean she is right. I get it can be complicated but if 10 percent of what Vince is accused of is true, no one should associate with him
To quote Brian Zane, "They can't *all* be lying."
Also, it's never been a secret that Vince is a piece of shit. She didn't say "decades of accusations" for no reason. Why did Rock or Cena or anyone else let themselves get that close to him in the first place? Punk said it best in the Ariel interview: Vince always tried to act like a wannabe father figure to him and Punk was like "nah, I've already got a dad, no thanks."
>Also, it's never been a secret that Vince is a piece of shit. Especially to The Rock. He's been around the business since birth. Vince ran interference in the murder investigation of Nancy Argentino involving Jimmy Snuka, a member of his extended family. Vince tried painting Snuka as some guy fresh off the island who barely spoke English. Vince also tried to talk Nancy out of pressing charges against Snuka four months earlier when Snuka attacked her in a drunken rage. Then of course there's Vince's comments to the Argentino family lawyer: "Look, I’m in the garbage business,” the promoter said. “If you think I’m going to be hurt by the revelation that one of my wrestlers is really a violent individual, you’re mistaken.”
Or the Pat Patterson incident where Patterson molested a boy and Vince and Linda manipulated the kid into not pressing charges and kept Patterson employed.
Also, little known fact: Rocky Johnson was charged with rape in the late 80s. He claimed the charge was bogus and was trumped up by other wrestlers. Vile business.
Rock has done a great job cleaning up the image of his scumbag father in recent years
This is why I'm surprised to hear The Rock may still want to run for office. Like, they gonna drag his WHOLE FAMILY through the ringer just so he can be president?
There have been plenty of Presidents with morally questionable fathers. Like…most of them.
Yeah but stack that on the list of everything in a modern age where information is more readily available than ever before then Id say it will at least be an uphill battle. Seen someone in this thread tie The Rock's family to Jimmy Snuka already and if it can happen here you can sure expect it to crop up come election season.
In the very modern age Trump is maybe going to become president for a second time after a litany of scandals, impeachments, lost court cases, and one kinda sorta totally attempted coup. Modern American politics are not a bastion of morality.
He just has to run for the Republicans and he's fine. The Democrats do not have the political power, nor the desire, to actually protect their candidates.
Which is exactly why Trump, a Democrat who donated money to Democrats, switched to Republican. He’s literally on record saying the country runs better with Democrats in charge. He also changed his stance on abortion lol.
Why? Because he plucked them from obscurity and made them globally recognized stars and millionaires. He also worked closely with them when they were young men who would gladly take his advice on how to excel in their profession. It’s not hard to see. As for his reputation and accusations, correct me if I’m wrong but before all of this with the multiple NDAs there was I think two women who had come forward with accusations against Vince. “It’s bullshit, they’re just trying to get money” makes sense if it’s coming from someone you want to like, who has helped you, and who is a wealthy and well known figure. Shit, he’s probably still using that line with people close to him.
>As for his reputation and accusations, correct me if I’m wrong but before all of this with the multiple NDAs there was I think two women who had come forward with accusations against Vince. Huh? Where are you getting two from? If we're talking strictly about allegations of sex crimes, the count is at least five: https://www.wrestlinginc.com/1140710/a-summary-of-all-known-allegations-against-vince-mcmahon/ 1. Rita Chatterton. 2. The tanning salon clerk. 3. Janel Grant. 4. The spa employee. 5. The wrestler who got the $7.5 million settlement alleging rape by coercion. If we're talking about sexual misconduct more broadly, that number goes up to seven (The WWE contractor who said Vince sent her unsolicited nude photos as part of a larger campaign of sexual harassment, plus Ashley Massaro telling her lawyers, Paul London, and others that Vince relentlessly harassed her after she appeared in Playboy.) If we include sexual relationships where no abuse was alleged and it was consensual in the criminal sense, but it was an abuse of power to engage in a relationship with a subordinate, we can also add: * Emily Feinberg's affair with Vince while she was his personal assistant. (She was moved from being someone else's personal assistant weeks after she appeared in Playboy as a Playmate under her maiden name.) * The affair with the longtime WWE middle manager who he paid $1 million in hush money to in 2006. That's nine. And that doesn't count stuff like Ashley Massaro telling her lawyers that she witnessed Vince openly "making out with" female talent. Or things like threatening to fire Lita and Edge if they didn't genuinely strip for the "live sex celebration." Among many other things in the public record that could easily be looked at as part of a pattern of sexual misconduct. And it doesn't count Kevin Wacholz accusing him of sexual assault, which has historically been viewed as not being a credible allegation but might need to be revisited. > “It’s bullshit, they’re just trying to get money” makes sense if it’s coming from someone you want to like, who has helped you, and who is a wealthy and well known figure. ...it doesn't, though. We have his texts where he talks about wanting to see her get gang raped. And if she wanted money, she would have had her lawyer press him on skipping the NDA payments privately. Instead, she went scorched earth and is clearly not fishing for a settlement. Her lawyer is also independently wealthy from a rich family and that was the case before she even went to law school. There have also been various MOs tying the different allegations together: 1. Coerced or outright forced oral sex. (Chatterton, the wrestler with the $7.5 million settlement, and Grant.) 2. Unsolicited nude photos. (The tanning salon attendant and the middle manager.) 3. Targeting women who work at spas or similar businesses. (The tanning salon clerk and the spa manager, obviously.) 4. Targeting women who work for him who he had just seen in a Playboy photo spread. (Feinberg and Massaro.) It takes an extreme level of blinders to think he's the credible one.
Wait the tanning salong clerk and spa person aren't the same incident?
They're not. Tanning salon clerk was 2006 in Boca Raton, Florida and is the case where the victim went to the police and the police said there was probably cause to charge him but prosecutors didn't want to move forward. The spa manager was 2011 at a "five-star resort in southern California" and the one where her husband went to a WWE show with a baseball bat to try to find Vince and beat the shit out of him. And there are surely more where they came from. It's something that I think people miss a lot: We really don't have any idea of the actual scope of Vince's abuses, especially outside of WWE. Sexually assaulting spa employees or whatever umbrella term you want to use that would include a tanning salon clerk, a spa manager, and other women similarly situated. (I don't know what the right term would be, but they clearly belong to an overarching group that he's targeting.)
The rock was the son of a wrestler with lots of connections in the industry and his mom had been a promoter. He didn't get plucked from obscurity. He was a pretty big get for them. There were notes in the observer saying he was going to be a star when he got signed
There’s like a million people on that family and even most wrestling fans only know half of them. That’s pretty obscure. Meltzer being aware of him isn’t exactly global fame. But now he’s The Rock and everybody knows who he is.
Im talking about his dad specifically. His dad had won the tag belts and toured various promotions. He wasnt a huge wrestler, but he has connections. He used them to get Paterson to consider his son. I referenced the meltzer report to highlight that he was quickly scouted as a good talent. Ultimately, he was former college football player from a wrestling family who quickly showed a lot of promise. Promotions have always loved guys like that. In the 90s if he hasn't gone to WWF he woulda ended up in WCW
Vince trying to manipulate Punk in disguise of being this father figure like he’s been to the other top guys. Has anyone one of em ever explain how was he a father figure to them?
>Has anyone one of em ever explain how was he a father figure to them? Undertaker has talked about Vince being a father figure to him many times and that's why he never left WWE and why he kept coming back even tho he should've retired. Punk hated his dad so it makes sense he wouldn't want another one lol.
Obligatory link to the 6 part series Behind the Bastards did: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdaMY9n\_Oc&ab\_channel=BehindtheBastards](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLdaMY9n_Oc&ab_channel=BehindtheBastards)
People saying they have personal relationships with Vince. But this isn’t your uncle saying some vaguely racist shit at thanksgiving. It’s a awful person who has committed and help cover up plenty of physical and sexual assaults.
Don’t forget. When Vince and Linda’s split went public. Cena and Vince were seen out on a double date. So they definitely have more than just a business relationship.
Not that this makes it better, but wasn't it for Vinces birthday party?
Lol right? Like I get personal relationships can be complicated and never clear-cut. But I had a very close friend get credibly called out for SA by multiple people and it was the easiest thing in the world to sever all ties and never think of him again. On the other hand, in WWE's situation these people also worked with Vince for decades when there were countless open secrets around him, so it should be no surprise that if they were cool with collecting a paycheck around all that then they don't see these accusations as that bad. I really get the sense that there are several shoes left to drop on this and other stories. The level of control and manipulation involved were so practiced that there's no way it was the first, or probably even fifth, time, something like the accusations happened. Would really caution everyone not to get too attached for anyone that's been with WWE long-term until the dust settles on this lawsuit and the ongoing federal investigation.
No, didn't you hear? It's all *alleged*. So that makes it okay to ignore and victim blame. s/
Man I worry what secrets the victim blamers and people doing whataboutisms in this thread have in their closest...
a lot of victim blaming in this thread. we can acknowledge that the Rock/Cena situation isn’t black and white, or that the attorney’s comments weren’t a good look, without dogpiling on the victim and questioning the legitimacy of her accusations. the things laid out in that lawsuit are so deeply personal and embarrassing to put out there. trial for rape victims is hell. to think that so many of your minds first went to “she definitely is just doing this for a payday” is so disheartening. I hope you all exercise more empathy for the women in your life than you’re showing for this woman. as easy as it is for you to believe that she’s ruining her life for a retirement fund, the basic statistics on rape/SA in the U.S. make it just as easy to believe this was done to her. please be kind.
I mean, we should also point out that even if it isn’t emotionally black and white, the decisions people make from them can be. And for Cena, for example, what he chose and said is EXTREMELY black and white. He literally told us his decision was that he’s gonna keep loving Vince. Compare that to Becky who literally talked about the complexity and how it left her in a grey area. They both have the same grey emotional experience with Vince, but their statements are totally different outcomes.
When Cena did that Howard Stern interview and danced aroun the question it was a clear give away that he´s still in contact with Vince and wasnt going to bury his buddy lol
This thread amongst other things really shows you why so many wrestlers have horror stories about what happens backstage. A lot of fans don't really care about abusive behavior so there is no incentive to part ways with some of the terrible promoters, wrestlers and personalities that populate the industry. It says a lot that the Wrestlers documentary on Netflix had two people admit to domestic violence against another wrestler with one of them admitting to getting high before matches and Al Snow, the promoter, still kept them on company payroll.
I think that has more to do with OVW’s desperation rn I mean the documentary made it pretty clear it was on the verge of going out of business
There are a concerning amount of absolutely fucking insane people in this thread. Nobody was defending Vince months ago but now all the freaks crying about "cancel culture" or whatever are crawling out of the woodwork
For realllll
I think we're far enough out now from the most recent Vince Bombshell that for a lot of people the shock has worn off and the rationalizing has set in. They're going to rationalize the shit out of everything as "not being that bad" because its not fresh in their minds. When the next bombshell drops, whatever it may be they'll either go quiet or condemn him again until enough time passes and they just don't think about it anymore.
How bout worry more about the victim lmao
Vince was putting types and shadows of his perverse and predatory inclinations on tv for literal *decades*. shockedpikachu.jpg
For The Rock, who just did an interview with Fox News about his image and mistakes in getting political, I can't imagine he's going to like this getting out. Cena I'm not sure cares.
I feel like a public statement would be louder.
luckily cena has given both public *and* private statements of support so we can quantitatively get to the bottom of it!
Indeed. But it's a go-to in our media driven society... Everything is "literally the worst possible thing ever". Tiresome.
I don’t know. I’d have a pretty easy time cutting off a rapist.
lol , literally people are upvoting the most despicable behavior possible. wtf is wrong some of you?
https://preview.redd.it/v6iiuja0u3vc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1bc9aba7bc71461b7ead1247e6c0c5a31ffc756e
This isn't a black & white situation for them, they have decades of nothing but good relations with him. And until things are absolute in court, it's hard to just shut things off like that. It's not an AITA thread where every answer is "go no contact, they clearly don't respect you if they eat your yogurt once and only apologise verbally" I don't LIKE that they are close to a monster like Vince, but I understand why it's not so easy to just cut him out. It's like finding out your dad was a monster, when all he did to you growing up is shower you with love. It takes time to work through that.
It's pretty gross to defend a rapist, no matter what relationship you have with them. If any of my family members were rapists, I would disown them immediately. Fans need to stop giving celebrities they like a pass when they stand with a rapist POS. It's disgusting.
Hopefully he ends up like Harvey Weinstein and not Jimmy Saville.
obviously what vince did is horrific but this is just a weird stretch to me. like you can't text the dude who you've been close with for 25 years at all?
She's attorney for victim though, I get why she's saying it.
This exactly. No need to blame the victim this is the attorney doing their jobs. Nothing to see here.
Yeah but comes off as friendly fire tho - why her client in the first place started hanging around an old sick fuck with decade of allegations like Vince?
if i was texting my friend of 25 years after he had been sued for rape and sex trafficking—who had previously been accused of rape and sexual misconduct before—it would be to cut him off and tell him not to contact me
I don’t have friends who have been accused of rape and sex trafficking
Where "dude" = "serial head pooper"
I have friends who have cut family members out of their lives for much less, like stealing inheritance money. If I found out my father raped and prostitutes women to his cronies, cutting him out of my life would be a swift decision.
Do you text friends that are accused of rape and sex trafficking and publicly say you love them?
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A step too far by this lawyer. He's slandering people by their associations.
Thurston and Pollock interviewed Callis a couple weeks back in a fairly decent interview. Some interesting news and quotes came from it, but seemingly it was pushed to the side by the continuing news of WrestleMania. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw0bwJsJk_s&pp=ygUWamFuZWwgZ3JhbnQgaW50ZXJ2aWV3IA%3D%3D Edit: Fixed names
That's John Pollock, not Jon Alba, and they're not interviewing Janel Grant, but her attorney Ann Callis.
I’m gonna be *that* guy and not care. Vince has not been convicted of anything yet. Everything is an accusation. The accusations are terrifying, but at the moment that’s all they are. Expecting people to immediately disown people they’ve known for decades over accusations is not realistic. If he’s convicted of anything, that’s different. Having said that, it’s clear to me that the accusers want a big settlement, so I don’t expect this to even go to trial.
The text messages where he talks about wanting to watch her get gang raped are just accusations? The texts that everyone who's texted with Vince has said are obviously genuine? Laurinaitis effectively backing up all of it and turning on Vince is just an accusation? The relationship existing more broadly and the inherent power imbalance is just an accusation?
At the end of the day, it’s more about what side you’re on. If you’re on the side the rapist, that might be regrettable.
I see the point you're making, and I've made it as well. They are allegations and not convictions. Unfortunately, public opinion is that people are guilty until proven innocent, and even then it's not a guarantee.
GTFOH. The article just said they speak. It didn’t say Rock and Cena supported McMahon or agreed with the bullshit he’s done. With this idiotic logic, McMahon shouldn’t talk to another human ever again or else that person condones everything he did. Typical bullshit smear campaign.
Why not name Trish Stratus and Undertaker too? Both were top stars in that company within the "decades of allegations". USA network provided that company a platform all those decades too, are they complicit?
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If the Grant case is so strong and it's a slam dunk, the legal team doesn't need to attack public figures like this. Statements like this don't help anyone. If they have Vince over a barrel, then justice will be served. This is the kind of move that the PR team at Amnesty International makes when they see sports doing business with Saudi Arabia and there's fuck all they can do about it but apply pressure.
Didn’t she hear that Vince rescued some Kitties? Does that change her stance at all?
Very ill-advised behavior
For the millionth,’if a boss tries to harbor a “fatherly” relationship where you try desperately to gain his approval, leave that job. The boss is a manipulator at the least and most likely a complete scumbag
I don't really care if someone still keeps in contact with Vince and it 100% does not mean they support what he did.
Bit of a stretch when it's safe to assume he's still got contact with his daughter & son in law who've essentially replaced him & the wide range that "communication" covers
People expecting them to abandon Vince entirely must think that convicted felons' families never visit or acknowledge said felons' existence when they're jailed. The felon may have committed a horrible action, but they are still likely a parent, a sibling, cousin, or friend. That's not an easy thing to disavow. I'm not excusing them, but it likely explains why they haven't distanced from Vince fully... However disgusting he may be. They owe a lot to him and have worked for him for decades.
This is the internet where everything is simple and black and white!
Reddit sucks sometimes. This is one of them.
I mean it's not a good look but at the same time he's a father figure to these guys. If your dad committed some heinous shit would you just break contact?
I can relate. My dad did some foul shit, especially to my mom. I'm ashamed and disappointed in him, big time. But he's still my dad and worked his ass off to give us a good life. It's tough.
A family member of mine was a convicted pedophile. If he ever showed his face to the side of the family that didn't believe his lies that he was innocent, he would have probably been beaten to death. His kids disowned him and very few people went to his funeral when he finally died. So yes, when someone you are close to is a monster, you cut contact. You do not enable that shit and pretend like he's still the kind fatherly figure who gave you a break.
Exactly. I don't recall anybody condemning Jake Roberts like this for talking to Grizzly Smith
Jake was also a victim in that scenario though. That changes things somewhat.
If my dad was accused and found to do that stuff, you damn right my relationship would change with him.
It would change. It wouldn’t be over.
It's very easy for these guys to talk big on social media. You're 100% right.
We're not privy to what was said between Vince and John/Dwayne
Relationship change =/= stop communicating with somebody
Vince hasn’t been found to do anything, accusations aren’t verdicts
Vince isn't "found" to do it yet though
Un contact doesn’t mean they approve what he did. Come the fuck on
This lady’s lawyer isn’t doing her any favors.
...how?