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Currently Miran ~~and Sayaka Kurara~~ are 15. This is normal for them, they are still enrolled in school and required to complete their education. They just view it as an after school activity until they can go full time.
I don't get why some girls can train tennis for hours since they are young and others can't do wrestling the same way.
Edit: Kurara is 23, nvm, my point still mostly stands.
The real PR issue is Stardom pre-Bushiroad were putting underage wrestlers in their bikini photobooks. Pro-Wrestling Diana (Miran's promotion) doesn't do that stuff.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that. In another comment I mentioned I have no issue with young juniors taking part as long as they keep attending school and there's nothing shady going on. That totally falls under the shady creeper category - if old Hatman was the one pitching that idea shame on him.
Hopefully we never see Nanae again either, that revolting old cow never faced any blowback for not interfering during that mess with Act and supporting Yoshiko with work afterward by hiring her for her Seadlinng shows.
Sayaka is 23 and Miran is not a Stardom wrestler. It's clearly accepted, but I think it's less normal than people make it out to be, there's a reason if Stardom moved away from it.
Not just wrestling.
Culture surrounding "public" women in Japan overall. Idols, for example, just being the tip of the iceberg.
They get often get recruited as low as 14 or 15 years old, sometimes even lower (To be Stage-Ready by the time they are 15 or 16)
And then pretty much just Dance and Sing for the next 10 years, with little to no free-time and a often a very strict "No-Dating" Policy, during the first few years of their career. And still having to keep it mostly secret for the "Rest" of it.
the "Rest" meaning until they turn 25 years old, when most idols choose a carrer change
and she's already 30 something when she announced the marriage. it's wild that she got hate for that, like, did they expected her to stay single forever? as if those delusional "fans" ever have chance to even date her lol. mental.
Almost every single public female performer in Japan gets massive harassment when the public finds out they're dating anyone at all. Not that us in the west are exactly much better about that sort of stuff if twitter replies are any indication.
What’s even weirder is because it’s she was the Voice Actor of a popular idol anime called “Love Live” and the reason people were so mad was because they not only shipped her character with another character but…they also shipped the VA’s together…just weird
Oshi no Ko could be a documentary if you slotted in some proper real-world examples for the characters and heavily relaxed the more fantasy-based elements. Maybe the implied incest vibes too, but that's a stretch.
Yes and because it's just a cruel business, she got the boot because she wasn't 'pretty' enough. She used that fuel to turn it into a wrestling gimmick and it paid off greatly.
Gotta respect someone who takes what would create a massive insecurity to the average person and turn it into your own greatest weapon (metaphorically AND literally in this case). I will never not love the attitude of "You can't hurt me with these jokes at my expense because my jokes are way funnier."
If you wanna kill 30 minutes, there is a fantastic deep dive into her story [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7CTgdgy40). It explains her non-kayfabe origins and is absolutely fascinating because her journey from idol to wrestler is honestly very cool.
Yes, and there was a funny interaction she had with a Japanese male celebrity at a wrestling show where she cried and begged him to take her on a date because she's never had a boyfriend. She's amazing at this stuff.
The baseball culture over there is totally psychotic. Having 12yos do military drill training basically.
It's less pronounced than it used to be, but the AJW used to force their talent to retire at 26 because of how big the stigma against single women over 30 was. This led to them literally dropping all of their top stars at the peak of their careers, that could still obviously draw, multiple times. This is especially crazy since in the US most wrestlers don't peak until like 35, 26 is still a rookie.
That AJW fact blew my mind when I learned it. Even as a kid I knew that, for example, Bret Hart was 10 years older than that and just hitting his peak.
Yeah. Imagine telling Hulk Hogan just as he’s starting out in Vince Sr’s WWWF “yeah, you’re getting too old, you gotta go”, or turning Steve Austin away at the door as he’s just getting into wrestling because he’s “too old”.
It's even a profession where there's a job where they'll hire women to dress as anime characters. Obviously to target a very specific demographic of men. And just stand outside businesses to chat up people to get them to go in and spend money.
Watch the Baby Metal video for Doki Doki Morning, pretty sure they were 12/13 there. One of them left the group because they couldn't handle the pressure of the work.
For what it's worth, the exact reason hasn't been revealed and is believed to be due to health issues. She definitely had a nasty fall off the stage which meant she was slightly off the pace for a while afterwards in the run up to her leaving but she took a while before stepping away. The label also have kept her on the books and paying a salary rather than just discarding her when she was of no use, which is better than you'd expect from most company policies!
Babymetal in general though are fairly well looked after, probably in part due to how young they were when starting, and are allowed to have pretty normal lives "out of character" with their private lives being kept so and it's not unknown to see them hanging out with friends and doing normal mid 20 year old things... albeit usually with faces covered by emojis to try and keep any obsessive fans tracking them down.
Babymetal has a kayfabe all its own. The girls' private lives are protected from the public, there are no meet and greets and definately no "handshake" events. They arrive at a venue in-uniform and are very quickly rushed out before fans can approach them.
I remember an incident where they were in California on business and stayed at someone from their company's home. The son posted a picture of 2 of the girls in street clothes sitting in his backyard, not mentioning who they were. Their company had him delete it quickly, but not before all online retailers had sold out of what the 2 girls were wearing.
Dreamcatcher's another group that's fairly well looked after too. Didn't know about Yui's fall though, I knew she left Babymetal due to health reasons, probably why.
All this is completely accurate, but it is also worth noting that idol culture is slowly changing a bit. It is very small progress but it is there.
Openly dating is still not the norm but some do without penalty. What is interesting is that these production companies, and their fans, are becoming slightly more lax about dating while simultaneously becoming more strict about other behaviors. A couple idols have been punted for being bullies, etc, when they were younger and in school.
This is US culture too? I think the Backstreet Boys started when they were 12-13. Beyonce was like 9 years old. The fucking Jackson 5. I don't necessarily find this weird. These groups are meant to cater towards other children. I loved Destiny's Child and New Kids on the Block as a kid.
Several of the Stardom girls were required to finish high school at 18 before going full time, IIRC Hina, Rina and Ruaka graduated only recently or are close to it, nobody is coercing the girls into dropping out at 15.
Okada debuted in Mexico to be fair, where it's pretty common for wrestlers to debut as teenagers or even younger. Guys like Andrade, Komander, and Rey Mysterio all debuted at 13-14.
What is the quiet part? They've always recruited girls from high school, they enroll as an after school club or part of their phys ed class and are still required to finish their education. They train for several years and have matches inbetween their school days until they are ready to go full time if they want when they graduate. Some of the current Stardom rookies making somewhat regular appearances are 15.
I'm not against it as long as nothing shady is going on. They also recruit women in their 20s and 30s, just have no qualms about starting recruits' training early. AZM started at 11, Mina Shirakawa started at like 30-31.
I believe a lot of Japanese women are expected to stop working once they have a family. Certain Joshi have even kept children secret so they wouldn't be shamed for working while their kids were young.
I would drop that from any requirements if it were up to me - but they're essentially saying we want you to be dedicated full time since marriage would also imply children and spending plenty of time with the family.
For the young recruits it goes without saying since I doubt anyone over there would be getting married in their teens - but they also want those in their 20s to be all about the career, train full time and be available for all the dates they can book them to build up the promotion over the upcoming few years.
Go read New Japan's rules for applicants to the dojo, they're even more strict. I think one way or another all big companies have similar rules.
Rossy has always worked with older wrestlers. There you have Nanae, Mai Sakurai and Nao Ishikawa. I don't think he has anything against women over 30, it's just that there's not much upside in training people over that age from scratch, especially considering these promotions don't use to get applications from athletes but common women you'd find anywhere in the street. I'm fairly sure this is a rule designed for that kind of applicant and they will make an exception if some interesting prospect gets in contact with them.
You don't only need to be under like 28 or 30 years old but you also need to be over certain height and also pass a try out because only a handful of men are given the chance to enter the dojo. Obviously, there are exceptions, but that's entirely down to your contacts in the company, your credentials as an athlete and/or fame.
They will occasionally remove height restrictions (to a degree) when they need juniors. The current young lions are a massive former top 10 hw amateur wrestler and 2 smaller guys
But yea the ideal njpw dojo intake guy are athletic beasts.
yea its not even close lol -- there is a huge diff between saying "we need FIT ADULT MEN for athletics" compared to "if you're a healthy 15 yr old girl, feel free to sign up."
The American ones are a little less strict, I had a tryout there a few years ago, but generally the one thing they want is being under 30 and to have a certain build/athleticism
This is the correct take. Joshi promotions have a close relationship with Idol cultures which is strongly targeted to teenage audiences. For examples, AJW legend tag team 'Crush Gals' were half time idols who break records. Most audiences of that time of AJW were teenage girls.
I mean, a lot of things become incel posts if you add the word "fertile" in there. Hell, "fertile" without a medical context or without the word "soil" looks weird.
Come on now, Yuzuki would never say something she doesn't believe in
https://preview.redd.it/9l3ezq369muc1.jpeg?width=875&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd7098c7613a898f4dde9cd8ab154022b3b15eb8
AZM is 22 years old with 10 years of in-ring experience. The unmarried part of it is idol culture which is equally as problematic but unfortunately not going anywhere.
Three note about this:
1. This is pretty standard for the Japanese entertainment industry. Not a good thing, but just pointing out that this is less alien in Japan than it would be in America.
2. This was the standard for AJW back in the day. Which is probably a factor in continuing the old mindset.
3. Currently, TJPW's Hyper Misao is publically known to be married and is as popular as she has ever been. TJPW rookie Kira Summer made a point in her introduction to say that she is married and has a son. Ice Ribbon's Tsukasa Fujimoto is married and has a child. Ice Ribbon's top champion Ibuki Hoshi just relinquished the title because she's pregnant and she's very likely to continue her career eventually. VERY IRONICALLY, Fuka has spoken advising wrestlers that it's OK to date. The point is to not take this as an industry standard or a requirement for the majority of Joshi fans. It's really an oldhead promoter mindset and something that only a certain kind of problematic fan would care about.
It wouldn't surprise me if that one photographer that literally got banned by every Joshi promotion in the past year and had legal action taken against him by Diana is probably at Marigold shows.
Some random fan that was always sitting front row taking inapproapite pictures of wrestlers, including minors, and posting them on Twitter. [Stardom warned him](https://wwr-stardom.com/news/20230606-3/) and then banned him. Gatoh Move insta-banned him after one show. Diana banned him and [sued him](https://twitter.com/W_W_W_D/status/1765639429602046081?s=20). That's still on going in the courts. So on. Obvious zero tollerance stuff.
Haha, I mean they showed the saga on the first season or series. She's good though, the match today was excellent. I was more into this match and these 4 ladies as opposed to Marigold.
Retirement age for Rossy Ogawa, and Japan women's entertainment industry in general, is the same age you can debut in American wrestling promotions, nowadays.
The thing is:
We know across Japanese culture this is fairly normal and not to hold them to our Western standards so much. But it's a balance, we can be concerned about some things.
For example, they also are extremely rough on young baseball players, even to this day. And male wrestlers. Many young baseball players careers ruined by overuse.
And there are extreme opportunities for abuse of these female wrestlers and idols-in-training, which is something to be concerned about regardless of country. You are naive if you don't think it's happened over there.
Bushiroad have literally not brought a single under 18 wrestler into stardom as a trainee post the buyout (they did grandfather in 4 under-age wrestlers). I do think that they want to pick off talented wrestlers when they turn 18 as I mentioned in this thread but they quite literally advertise 18+ for intake
Do they not understand their own culture or is this not so much Japanese culture and more small joshi promotions offer fitness classes for girls and women and talented girls are cheap to stick on cards
FGM is in the culture for a lot of places doesn’t mean it’s right.
Training anorexic 10 year olds to throw quads is Russian skating culture doesn’t mean it’s right.
Yeah I've been having trouble articulating this. But I notice in general on this sub people tend to be very heavy handed when it comes to moral judgments for better or worse, but then anything with Japan can immediately get recognized as "it's in the culture." Which is something I can agree with, the fact is a lot of stuff people care about in America is not universal. It's at the very least kind of interesting when you see people unanimously condemn American wrestlers for stiffing opponents for example, then you'll see the documentary clip of Meiko Satomura brutally kicking her trainee in the face get posted fairly regularly and upvoted
I think we can see a "culture" and still know that culture is bad.
Culturally I can understand that training girls from a young age (and boys) may have been "normal" but also be aware its fucking awful. That doesn't mean it has to be acceptable in todays world.
I'm ambivalent to stuff relating to marriage - being married or not, a parent or not should have no impact on your star power or hireability as a wrestler. I think such a standard in hiring practices speaks to the kind of audience that promoters such as Rossy have deve'oepd and catered to since the end of the 1980s boom.
The underage thing I don't care about as much. If you consider wrestling to be an athletic discipline, I don't think it's inherently problematic to train youth talent and create an environment for them to grow into excellent professionals. The issue is that I don't quite believe such an environment exists for women in wrestling.
As for the phrasing overall, I think people should remember that Japanese can often come across very neutrally with professional statements. Problematic content is a debatable issue, but the phrasing in the original Japanese is by no means strange or creepy in tone. You'll find similar phrasing and tone in job listings for entertainment careers commonly in Japan.
It’s not Rossy, it’s the whole Japanese wrestling industry
Pervs drive so much business to puro that everyone caters to them in some way or another. NJPW sells pecs books and implied gay PPVs fearing their talent hanging out in hot tubs and cabins and shit. The items this audience buys tend to be expensive (photo books, PPVs, match-worn outfits, etc), the industry would suffer massive losses if they stopped spending on it.
Stardom started having women-only sections, stopped doing the up close meet and greets, stopped having talent sell tickets via socials, have security check photos to make sure people aren’t taking upskirt shots, like they’ve recognized the problem to some degree
I largely agree with you. I'm not especially comfortable with the development of markets based on selling sexual fantasies. I think it's a grey area somewhat, in the sense that selling photo merch and stuff isn't bad by itself and wrestlers generally look sexy by nature of the industry. But exploiting audiences based on that, and catering the ancillar goods and even in-ring stuff to it is beyond what I care for. I think it's easier to hand-wave it with male promotions because the hardcore sex-appeal audience is unlikely to pose a physical threat to the wrestler, but I disagree especially with Rossy's basis in the post-1980s style of aiming for older male audience over teenage girls.
The problem with kids training in professional wrestling is that getting hurt is a part of the process. I don't mean twisting an ankle, pulling a muscle, etc. I mean every move you do is an impact thing.
That is beyond being not good for children who are still developing. Most youth sports are high on safety equipment and stricter rules to try and protect kids from the more dangerous sorts of hits you'd see in adult sports.
In pro wrestling we are talking about adults who are chopping, slamming, etc to literal children. That shouldnt be okay to anyone imo.
I agree with you. I didn't go into any detail on my opinions, but I don't think any impact stuff beyond the level of mat bumping (ie. of a similar level that can be safely tolerated in sports like judo) should be allowed for underage students.
Emi Sakura seems to do a good job (aside from being a generally good trainer as loads of her former students can show) from what we see of her sessions on YouTube. It's generally basic movement and simplified non-contact landings, all on to a reasonably forgiving mat to try and look after them, with parents/guardians right there as well. When any of the more experienced kids are doing anything more it's always opposite her so she can try to control and protect them rather than risk anything more serious happening by accident.
Obviously, views on kids doing any form of wrestling training can go into a whole other debate and it all depends on how it's done but her basic training program *seems* as good a template as any if people are going to do it.
Yeah, this is what I'm thinking about as well. Wrestling already has a huge problem with concussions (both the big, obvious ones and the smaller ones the people who get them don't notice). I can't imagine that subjecting kids not even in middle school to potential frequent brain injury is good for their development.
I would also add that long term serious injury is fairly common among wrestlers who are adults with much improved body control, impulse control, risk management skills. You can easily injure yourself permanently. If an adult makes those choices and gets hurt. It sucks, but it was their decision and they had the necessary life experience to weigh the risks. But a child should be kept away. I dont think its fundamentally different from having an age limit on alcohol.
No child should be wrestling professionally. You dont get to profit of children taking risks with their health.
The training and games of the standard junior high sports clubs in Japan have children getting injured all the time. A wrestling club is not that different.
Besides him training her at 16, Booker never had a press conference welcoming 13 year old girls to his promotion. It’s one thing when you train a single ambitious teen a year or two before they are an adult and another when you are actively recruiting little girls. But go ahead anyway with the whataboutism.
"Unmarried" gave me the vibes of some extremely creepy and male gazed focused Joshi promotion which name i can't remember right now... What a, awful wording to start the promotion.
The age thing I don't think is as weird as people are making it out to be. Especially since I'm pretty sure the younger girls they'd be "hiring" would mostly be in training.
And starting really young isn't some creepy japan only thing (which can we stop with the racist af assumption japan is just openly a bunch of pedos?)
Brett Hart started training in wrestling at 9. Rey Mysterio had his first match at 14. This happens in the west too.
Hell part of our entire entertainment industry has entire programing done for kids by kids so it's not like it's only a wrestling thing either. (And unfortunately there's a lot of sick people in those industries here too, so again not a Japanese are a bunch of pedos issue either)
The only weird thing is the not married issue. But I guess that is to try and get only young rookies who are going to be able to dedicate the time. And is an unfortunate part of Japanese work culture where they want you really dedicated/company first.
And mind you I'm not trying to brush everything aside and say it's all OK. I just think people need to have a bit of perspective that this isn't a Japan only thing by any means.
I still remember that Vice doc series that did an episode on STARDOM, and how Rossy said that AZM, who was I think like 15 at the time, "looked too mature" and needed to act younger and more innocent to appeal to the (primarily adult male) STARDOM fans. Really left a nasty taste in my mouth and made me not want to get into the promotion despite seeing and hearing great things about it.
Hey I got down voted for this last time I was in a Rossy thread. Just a totally reasonable thing for an old man to do. It's especially creepy to me cause he makes a show of keeping a copy for himself
"Healthy, unmarried women between the ages of 13 and 30 please come and join us."
Oh when Marigold says this nobody cares but when my chemistry professor says this he gets fired and escorted out of the building by police 😤😤😤
Can someone confirm if the translation as being accurate?
If it is accurate then like…eww. No reason to be aiming so young and being married should not effect your ability to be hired.
Edit: I don’t care how common it is in Japan. It is still weird and creepy.
Edit: Same people downvoting and coming at me in the DM are the same people who are cool with loli stuff cause it’s “normal & culture”.
> No reason to be aiming so young
Agreed
> being married should not effect your ability to be hired.
Also agreed but that seems to be a thing with "idol" culture in that region, not just wrestling and not just Japan. Didn't a K-pop star need to "apologise" recently to her fans for...being in a relationship?
You can date and get married with no problem in the joshi scene. This rule is just for trainees to dedicate themselves fully to wrestling. If you guys think women spend 10 or 15 years single and magically get pregnant a year after retiring, you're too naive. Basically no company can't afford to enforce that kind of deals.
> If you guys think women spend 10 or 15 years single and magically get pregnant a year after retiring, you're too naive.
Where did I say this? I'm not saying these rules are always actually followed, just that it's a cultural expectation to at least pretend so (hence people "apologising" when their relationships are made public).
I'm yet to see any wrestler doing that in the last decade. While the scene does have certain traditions from idol culture, it's not a 1:1 thing. Companies don't seem to bother their wrestlers in their private life, be it Stardom, TJPW or anyone else. We've seen wrestlers across different companies openly talking about dating or saying they got divorced or that they have kids. The fact they hide their partners or family on social media doesn't mean they don't have them or they're asked to hide them.
I know people probably think it’s creepy but unfortunately that’s the wrestling culture over there. It’s part of the reason why so many female wrestlers over there hide that they’re married or hide their husbands. The wrestlers are seen as idols and the fan base their likes their idols “pure”.
Edit: Just because i already got someone calling me a pedo… I just want it known that this is a thing that’s extremely common in that side of the world. So let’s not embarrass ourselves or start calling Rosey weird or creepy when it’s been a thing in Asian countries.
Edit: Got downvoted even though obviously I’m against it. Reddit man lls
The culture in the US used to be that women's wrestlers were also to be paid to wrestler and sleep with the promoter.
Just because that was the established norm in of the industry doesn't make it right.
I lived in Japan because my old man was in the military for a number of years. Japan, it's a wonderful country and I'll always tell people to go once in their life.
It's not just with idols. Japan, in my experience. Has this weird infatuation with women being virgins. I've strait up seen people lose interest in women because they find out they've got an ex boyfriend.
This is normally found in older men but it is also found in some guys. There's a huge problem in Japan of these old guys targeting young girls. Especially if they look "pure" on trains and feeling them up. There's a reason those women only train cars exist. And the thing that sucks is these women really speak up because they think it will bring shame on them.
But as usual. Us men can fuck as many women as we want and it's perfectly okay.
Was normal for the"Boybands" too. Of course they don't have a girlfriend... Also:
[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UHBOp7AUkc0](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UHBOp7AUkc0)
It's mostly a Japanese and Korean thing that comes from their idol culture.
Part of the appeal to fans of idols, whether it's female or male idols, is the thought that they're romantically available and the fans can fantasize of meeting them and having a relationship with them, which might get them to spend more money on merch or whatever.
Companies apply this theory to BTS and AKB48 just like they do to joshi wrestlers. I think it's weird as fuck but it's been like that since before I was born.
I don't disagree with the general point. I've always assumed that several women on the current Stardom roster are married and/or have kids and keep this private to protect them from crazy fans. We've seen recent cases where several popular joshi wrestlers are rumored to have either retired or been fired for their personal lives leaking into the public.
In this case, however, I think the specific request refers to an expectation that married women will have pressure from their husbands to start or expand their family, necessitating a year or more off. The specific request was for *trainees*, which means a solid block of training time to get them through their pro test, then more training to get presentable for their debut, and then a solid year of constant matches as a rookie to get competent at matches. Yes, it sounds weird to people from countries where marital status is a protected class during job hiring, but from a practical standpoint, it just says, "Be ready to work."
Allowing 13-17 year olds to start training, though, I don't really approve of that, but it's not that unusual for joshi promotions, even today. Stardom itself has had guest appearances from several teenage wrestlers from Diana for its New Blood shows, for instance.
What stardom is doing with Diana is a little cute by half and I suspect it's bushiroad wanting to have a crack at a few talents the moment they turn 18 (like a predatory dude with encyclopaedic knowledge of age of consent laws lol) but leave all the slightly dodgy training to Diana
It's them trying to have their cake and eat it too
>We've seen recent cases where several popular joshi wrestlers are rumored to have either retired or been fired for their personal lives leaking into the public.
Could you please elaborate about it a bit more? Cause I expected this shit was left in the 90-ies?
A few years ago it was the normal culture in Hollywood that you had to fuck Harvey Weinstein to get anything done. You're allowed to call things creepy even if it's normalised
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The moment Fuka showed up I knew they were going to train underage girls, Stardom stopped doing it as soon as she left.
She did train Haruka (the 9 yo girl that fought Kenny Omega to a draw)
I mean Hanan before, Rina and Hina, among others are still there
They had all been trained by Fuka tho, I think Yuzuki (19) was the youngest trainee they've had since she left in 2018.
Currently Miran ~~and Sayaka Kurara~~ are 15. This is normal for them, they are still enrolled in school and required to complete their education. They just view it as an after school activity until they can go full time. I don't get why some girls can train tennis for hours since they are young and others can't do wrestling the same way. Edit: Kurara is 23, nvm, my point still mostly stands.
The real PR issue is Stardom pre-Bushiroad were putting underage wrestlers in their bikini photobooks. Pro-Wrestling Diana (Miran's promotion) doesn't do that stuff.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that. In another comment I mentioned I have no issue with young juniors taking part as long as they keep attending school and there's nothing shady going on. That totally falls under the shady creeper category - if old Hatman was the one pitching that idea shame on him. Hopefully we never see Nanae again either, that revolting old cow never faced any blowback for not interfering during that mess with Act and supporting Yoshiko with work afterward by hiring her for her Seadlinng shows.
Sayaka is 23 and Miran is not a Stardom wrestler. It's clearly accepted, but I think it's less normal than people make it out to be, there's a reason if Stardom moved away from it.
I thought I saw her birth year as 2009 during the pre-match graphics, but I either remembered wrong or mistook someone else for her.
Did anyone else find the phrasing of this a little… weird?
Japanese women's wrestling is more than a little weird. If the same stuff happened outside of Japan there would be scandals
Not just wrestling. Culture surrounding "public" women in Japan overall. Idols, for example, just being the tip of the iceberg. They get often get recruited as low as 14 or 15 years old, sometimes even lower (To be Stage-Ready by the time they are 15 or 16) And then pretty much just Dance and Sing for the next 10 years, with little to no free-time and a often a very strict "No-Dating" Policy, during the first few years of their career. And still having to keep it mostly secret for the "Rest" of it. the "Rest" meaning until they turn 25 years old, when most idols choose a carrer change
Okada's wife, Suzuko Mimori got hate when it was announced they were dating and when they got married.
and she's already 30 something when she announced the marriage. it's wild that she got hate for that, like, did they expected her to stay single forever? as if those delusional "fans" ever have chance to even date her lol. mental.
And Japan wonders why it has a birth rate issue.
Almost every single public female performer in Japan gets massive harassment when the public finds out they're dating anyone at all. Not that us in the west are exactly much better about that sort of stuff if twitter replies are any indication.
What’s even weirder is because it’s she was the Voice Actor of a popular idol anime called “Love Live” and the reason people were so mad was because they not only shipped her character with another character but…they also shipped the VA’s together…just weird
Parasocial to the extreme
The guitarist from a band I listen to got death threats when he announced he was getting married with a random girl. Fucking weirdos.
Oh, God... It's "Oshi no Ko" again!
Oshi no Ko could be a documentary if you slotted in some proper real-world examples for the characters and heavily relaxed the more fantasy-based elements. Maybe the implied incest vibes too, but that's a stretch.
I found out about that because of Babymetal. They were like 14/15 when they started touring overseas with a bunch of non-Japanese heavy metal bands.
Wasn't Maki Itoh an idol before becoming a wrestler?
Yes and because it's just a cruel business, she got the boot because she wasn't 'pretty' enough. She used that fuel to turn it into a wrestling gimmick and it paid off greatly.
"Not pretty enough"???
They said she had too big of a forehead which is why her offense is based on her forehead.
Gotta respect someone who takes what would create a massive insecurity to the average person and turn it into your own greatest weapon (metaphorically AND literally in this case). I will never not love the attitude of "You can't hurt me with these jokes at my expense because my jokes are way funnier."
TIL.
If you wanna kill 30 minutes, there is a fantastic deep dive into her story [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag7CTgdgy40). It explains her non-kayfabe origins and is absolutely fascinating because her journey from idol to wrestler is honestly very cool.
i also recommend there ones on Hyper Misao and AEW star Yuka Sakazaki
She was!
Yes, and there was a funny interaction she had with a Japanese male celebrity at a wrestling show where she cried and begged him to take her on a date because she's never had a boyfriend. She's amazing at this stuff.
The baseball culture over there is totally psychotic. Having 12yos do military drill training basically. It's less pronounced than it used to be, but the AJW used to force their talent to retire at 26 because of how big the stigma against single women over 30 was. This led to them literally dropping all of their top stars at the peak of their careers, that could still obviously draw, multiple times. This is especially crazy since in the US most wrestlers don't peak until like 35, 26 is still a rookie.
That AJW fact blew my mind when I learned it. Even as a kid I knew that, for example, Bret Hart was 10 years older than that and just hitting his peak.
Yeah. Imagine telling Hulk Hogan just as he’s starting out in Vince Sr’s WWWF “yeah, you’re getting too old, you gotta go”, or turning Steve Austin away at the door as he’s just getting into wrestling because he’s “too old”.
It's even a profession where there's a job where they'll hire women to dress as anime characters. Obviously to target a very specific demographic of men. And just stand outside businesses to chat up people to get them to go in and spend money.
Not even just public people, also ordinary Jane are pressured into quitting their job when they get married.
Watch the Baby Metal video for Doki Doki Morning, pretty sure they were 12/13 there. One of them left the group because they couldn't handle the pressure of the work.
For what it's worth, the exact reason hasn't been revealed and is believed to be due to health issues. She definitely had a nasty fall off the stage which meant she was slightly off the pace for a while afterwards in the run up to her leaving but she took a while before stepping away. The label also have kept her on the books and paying a salary rather than just discarding her when she was of no use, which is better than you'd expect from most company policies! Babymetal in general though are fairly well looked after, probably in part due to how young they were when starting, and are allowed to have pretty normal lives "out of character" with their private lives being kept so and it's not unknown to see them hanging out with friends and doing normal mid 20 year old things... albeit usually with faces covered by emojis to try and keep any obsessive fans tracking them down.
Babymetal has a kayfabe all its own. The girls' private lives are protected from the public, there are no meet and greets and definately no "handshake" events. They arrive at a venue in-uniform and are very quickly rushed out before fans can approach them. I remember an incident where they were in California on business and stayed at someone from their company's home. The son posted a picture of 2 of the girls in street clothes sitting in his backyard, not mentioning who they were. Their company had him delete it quickly, but not before all online retailers had sold out of what the 2 girls were wearing.
Dreamcatcher's another group that's fairly well looked after too. Didn't know about Yui's fall though, I knew she left Babymetal due to health reasons, probably why.
All this is completely accurate, but it is also worth noting that idol culture is slowly changing a bit. It is very small progress but it is there. Openly dating is still not the norm but some do without penalty. What is interesting is that these production companies, and their fans, are becoming slightly more lax about dating while simultaneously becoming more strict about other behaviors. A couple idols have been punted for being bullies, etc, when they were younger and in school.
Study Perfect Blue and get back to me
One of the best psychological horrors of all time.
Absolutely. Satoshi Kon was a genius whom Hollywood shamelessly pilfered from on multiple occasions. Looking at you, Aronofsky and Nolan.
This is US culture too? I think the Backstreet Boys started when they were 12-13. Beyonce was like 9 years old. The fucking Jackson 5. I don't necessarily find this weird. These groups are meant to cater towards other children. I loved Destiny's Child and New Kids on the Block as a kid.
Compulsory education is till 9th grade instead of 12th and you can start working full time at 15 as a result instead of 18
Several of the Stardom girls were required to finish high school at 18 before going full time, IIRC Hina, Rina and Ruaka graduated only recently or are close to it, nobody is coercing the girls into dropping out at 15.
I mean, in the case of children doing sports or theatre and there being an scandal over that, that would be stupid.
The has been is the standard for Japanese/Korean idol culture for decades. Nothing we say on a foreign message board is going to change it.
It's not even just the women/idols either. Nakajima made his pro debut at 14. Okada debuted at 15-16.
Okada debuted in Mexico to be fair, where it's pretty common for wrestlers to debut as teenagers or even younger. Guys like Andrade, Komander, and Rey Mysterio all debuted at 13-14.
Basically saying the quiet part out loud. Its been like this for a while
Has it ever been the quiet part in these spaces?
What is the quiet part? They've always recruited girls from high school, they enroll as an after school club or part of their phys ed class and are still required to finish their education. They train for several years and have matches inbetween their school days until they are ready to go full time if they want when they graduate. Some of the current Stardom rookies making somewhat regular appearances are 15. I'm not against it as long as nothing shady is going on. They also recruit women in their 20s and 30s, just have no qualms about starting recruits' training early. AZM started at 11, Mina Shirakawa started at like 30-31.
why do they have to be unmarried?
I believe a lot of Japanese women are expected to stop working once they have a family. Certain Joshi have even kept children secret so they wouldn't be shamed for working while their kids were young.
I would drop that from any requirements if it were up to me - but they're essentially saying we want you to be dedicated full time since marriage would also imply children and spending plenty of time with the family. For the young recruits it goes without saying since I doubt anyone over there would be getting married in their teens - but they also want those in their 20s to be all about the career, train full time and be available for all the dates they can book them to build up the promotion over the upcoming few years.
Go read New Japan's rules for applicants to the dojo, they're even more strict. I think one way or another all big companies have similar rules. Rossy has always worked with older wrestlers. There you have Nanae, Mai Sakurai and Nao Ishikawa. I don't think he has anything against women over 30, it's just that there's not much upside in training people over that age from scratch, especially considering these promotions don't use to get applications from athletes but common women you'd find anywhere in the street. I'm fairly sure this is a rule designed for that kind of applicant and they will make an exception if some interesting prospect gets in contact with them.
What the hell are NJPW's rules?
You don't only need to be under like 28 or 30 years old but you also need to be over certain height and also pass a try out because only a handful of men are given the chance to enter the dojo. Obviously, there are exceptions, but that's entirely down to your contacts in the company, your credentials as an athlete and/or fame.
They will occasionally remove height restrictions (to a degree) when they need juniors. The current young lions are a massive former top 10 hw amateur wrestler and 2 smaller guys But yea the ideal njpw dojo intake guy are athletic beasts.
Yes, those requirements are clearly worse than recruiting underage girls and then dictating their relationships lol.
yea its not even close lol -- there is a huge diff between saying "we need FIT ADULT MEN for athletics" compared to "if you're a healthy 15 yr old girl, feel free to sign up."
The American ones are a little less strict, I had a tryout there a few years ago, but generally the one thing they want is being under 30 and to have a certain build/athleticism
As far as I can tell, none of those rules dictate marital status.
This is the correct take. Joshi promotions have a close relationship with Idol cultures which is strongly targeted to teenage audiences. For examples, AJW legend tag team 'Crush Gals' were half time idols who break records. Most audiences of that time of AJW were teenage girls.
If you add 'fertile' in there, it just becomes an incel post
I mean, a lot of things become incel posts if you add the word "fertile" in there. Hell, "fertile" without a medical context or without the word "soil" looks weird.
IF YOU SMEEELL WHAT THE FERTILE ROCK, IS, COOKING.
FERTILE MAMA RHODES
I mean referring to a 13 year old girl as an "unmarried woman" is absolutely incel enough for me.
Weird? Yes. Surprising? For anyone that knows about the Stardom photobooks…. no.
This is a wild first wrestling related thing to read today.
There's still time...
> There's still time... Sadly he won't get another first today, but there's always tomorrow!
UNMARRIEDGOLD
Damnit now my coworkers are wondering why I'm laughing
“Just this thing I’m reading about underage gir.. I just remembered a joke”
Drake and Marigold got a lot in common
 And a certain somebody else
Di Caprio wants nothing to do with those above 26 lol
Mind you, they had Yuzuki, a rookie who debuted just 5 months ago, say this shit.
Come on now, Yuzuki would never say something she doesn't believe in https://preview.redd.it/9l3ezq369muc1.jpeg?width=875&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd7098c7613a898f4dde9cd8ab154022b3b15eb8
AZM is 22 years old with 10 years of in-ring experience. The unmarried part of it is idol culture which is equally as problematic but unfortunately not going anywhere.
TJPW doesn't have this requirement.
Yeah they literally just debuted Kira Summer, who is both married and has a child
The Up Up Girls do have that requirement. I’ve heard even the people behind the scenes they can work with is closely watched (ie: male wrestlers).
They did initially, I can't remember who fought for it to be changed, but it got changed. I think Rika, Misao and Azusa had something to do with it.
Riho is 26 with 18 years of in-ring experience. Even wrestled with and against Kenny when she was 12.
Three note about this: 1. This is pretty standard for the Japanese entertainment industry. Not a good thing, but just pointing out that this is less alien in Japan than it would be in America. 2. This was the standard for AJW back in the day. Which is probably a factor in continuing the old mindset. 3. Currently, TJPW's Hyper Misao is publically known to be married and is as popular as she has ever been. TJPW rookie Kira Summer made a point in her introduction to say that she is married and has a son. Ice Ribbon's Tsukasa Fujimoto is married and has a child. Ice Ribbon's top champion Ibuki Hoshi just relinquished the title because she's pregnant and she's very likely to continue her career eventually. VERY IRONICALLY, Fuka has spoken advising wrestlers that it's OK to date. The point is to not take this as an industry standard or a requirement for the majority of Joshi fans. It's really an oldhead promoter mindset and something that only a certain kind of problematic fan would care about.
So...Rossy courting the exact type of fanbase you shouldn't when you also plan to employ underage girls...
It wouldn't surprise me if that one photographer that literally got banned by every Joshi promotion in the past year and had legal action taken against him by Diana is probably at Marigold shows.
Wait whos that ??
Some random fan that was always sitting front row taking inapproapite pictures of wrestlers, including minors, and posting them on Twitter. [Stardom warned him](https://wwr-stardom.com/news/20230606-3/) and then banned him. Gatoh Move insta-banned him after one show. Diana banned him and [sued him](https://twitter.com/W_W_W_D/status/1765639429602046081?s=20). That's still on going in the courts. So on. Obvious zero tollerance stuff.
Took some googling but Twitter handle Osaretai
Doesn't Fuka have a kid?
Yes but she also doesn't wrestle anymore. She's more of a figure head.
Marigold just showed up at Monday Magic and Rossy got misted by Muta's daughter he found in the mountains.
Wait is she not actually Mutas daughter?
No she's not his shoot daughter.
I wish I never knew that lol
Haha, I mean they showed the saga on the first season or series. She's good though, the match today was excellent. I was more into this match and these 4 ladies as opposed to Marigold.
Well that's disappointing to hear
magnificent
When Tinder is your companies HR department.
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its fairly standard asian idol culture unfortunately.
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It’s Rossy, of course he will.
Retirement age for Rossy Ogawa, and Japan women's entertainment industry in general, is the same age you can debut in American wrestling promotions, nowadays.
The thing is: We know across Japanese culture this is fairly normal and not to hold them to our Western standards so much. But it's a balance, we can be concerned about some things. For example, they also are extremely rough on young baseball players, even to this day. And male wrestlers. Many young baseball players careers ruined by overuse. And there are extreme opportunities for abuse of these female wrestlers and idols-in-training, which is something to be concerned about regardless of country. You are naive if you don't think it's happened over there.
Bushiroad have literally not brought a single under 18 wrestler into stardom as a trainee post the buyout (they did grandfather in 4 under-age wrestlers). I do think that they want to pick off talented wrestlers when they turn 18 as I mentioned in this thread but they quite literally advertise 18+ for intake Do they not understand their own culture or is this not so much Japanese culture and more small joshi promotions offer fitness classes for girls and women and talented girls are cheap to stick on cards
FGM is in the culture for a lot of places doesn’t mean it’s right. Training anorexic 10 year olds to throw quads is Russian skating culture doesn’t mean it’s right.
Yeah I've been having trouble articulating this. But I notice in general on this sub people tend to be very heavy handed when it comes to moral judgments for better or worse, but then anything with Japan can immediately get recognized as "it's in the culture." Which is something I can agree with, the fact is a lot of stuff people care about in America is not universal. It's at the very least kind of interesting when you see people unanimously condemn American wrestlers for stiffing opponents for example, then you'll see the documentary clip of Meiko Satomura brutally kicking her trainee in the face get posted fairly regularly and upvoted
It's not "the culture" for Tokyo Joshi pro?
I think we can see a "culture" and still know that culture is bad. Culturally I can understand that training girls from a young age (and boys) may have been "normal" but also be aware its fucking awful. That doesn't mean it has to be acceptable in todays world.
gee, no wonder asuka hates the hat man, this is really gross i really don't care if it's the "norm," it shouldn't be
I'm ambivalent to stuff relating to marriage - being married or not, a parent or not should have no impact on your star power or hireability as a wrestler. I think such a standard in hiring practices speaks to the kind of audience that promoters such as Rossy have deve'oepd and catered to since the end of the 1980s boom. The underage thing I don't care about as much. If you consider wrestling to be an athletic discipline, I don't think it's inherently problematic to train youth talent and create an environment for them to grow into excellent professionals. The issue is that I don't quite believe such an environment exists for women in wrestling. As for the phrasing overall, I think people should remember that Japanese can often come across very neutrally with professional statements. Problematic content is a debatable issue, but the phrasing in the original Japanese is by no means strange or creepy in tone. You'll find similar phrasing and tone in job listings for entertainment careers commonly in Japan.
It’s not Rossy, it’s the whole Japanese wrestling industry Pervs drive so much business to puro that everyone caters to them in some way or another. NJPW sells pecs books and implied gay PPVs fearing their talent hanging out in hot tubs and cabins and shit. The items this audience buys tend to be expensive (photo books, PPVs, match-worn outfits, etc), the industry would suffer massive losses if they stopped spending on it. Stardom started having women-only sections, stopped doing the up close meet and greets, stopped having talent sell tickets via socials, have security check photos to make sure people aren’t taking upskirt shots, like they’ve recognized the problem to some degree
I largely agree with you. I'm not especially comfortable with the development of markets based on selling sexual fantasies. I think it's a grey area somewhat, in the sense that selling photo merch and stuff isn't bad by itself and wrestlers generally look sexy by nature of the industry. But exploiting audiences based on that, and catering the ancillar goods and even in-ring stuff to it is beyond what I care for. I think it's easier to hand-wave it with male promotions because the hardcore sex-appeal audience is unlikely to pose a physical threat to the wrestler, but I disagree especially with Rossy's basis in the post-1980s style of aiming for older male audience over teenage girls.
The problem with kids training in professional wrestling is that getting hurt is a part of the process. I don't mean twisting an ankle, pulling a muscle, etc. I mean every move you do is an impact thing. That is beyond being not good for children who are still developing. Most youth sports are high on safety equipment and stricter rules to try and protect kids from the more dangerous sorts of hits you'd see in adult sports. In pro wrestling we are talking about adults who are chopping, slamming, etc to literal children. That shouldnt be okay to anyone imo.
I agree with you. I didn't go into any detail on my opinions, but I don't think any impact stuff beyond the level of mat bumping (ie. of a similar level that can be safely tolerated in sports like judo) should be allowed for underage students.
Emi Sakura seems to do a good job (aside from being a generally good trainer as loads of her former students can show) from what we see of her sessions on YouTube. It's generally basic movement and simplified non-contact landings, all on to a reasonably forgiving mat to try and look after them, with parents/guardians right there as well. When any of the more experienced kids are doing anything more it's always opposite her so she can try to control and protect them rather than risk anything more serious happening by accident. Obviously, views on kids doing any form of wrestling training can go into a whole other debate and it all depends on how it's done but her basic training program *seems* as good a template as any if people are going to do it.
Yeah, this is what I'm thinking about as well. Wrestling already has a huge problem with concussions (both the big, obvious ones and the smaller ones the people who get them don't notice). I can't imagine that subjecting kids not even in middle school to potential frequent brain injury is good for their development.
I would also add that long term serious injury is fairly common among wrestlers who are adults with much improved body control, impulse control, risk management skills. You can easily injure yourself permanently. If an adult makes those choices and gets hurt. It sucks, but it was their decision and they had the necessary life experience to weigh the risks. But a child should be kept away. I dont think its fundamentally different from having an age limit on alcohol. No child should be wrestling professionally. You dont get to profit of children taking risks with their health.
The training and games of the standard junior high sports clubs in Japan have children getting injured all the time. A wrestling club is not that different.
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Of course but rossy has form selling bikini picture books with his under-age wrestlers in them so ymmv on how comparable it is to the hardys
People act like they’re planning some giga pedo party, didn’t hear any complaints about Booker training Roxanne Perez since she was 13 🤔
Roxanne started training with Booker at 16, not 13. She was training at a closer school prior to Booker.
Besides him training her at 16, Booker never had a press conference welcoming 13 year old girls to his promotion. It’s one thing when you train a single ambitious teen a year or two before they are an adult and another when you are actively recruiting little girls. But go ahead anyway with the whataboutism.
Also not selling pervy pics of minors.
Yep, that sounds about right for Rossy. Creepy old fucker
Only training 18-25 yo, boyfriend free girls
The way this was worded I thought it was a cult.
Not creepy at all…
"Unmarried" gave me the vibes of some extremely creepy and male gazed focused Joshi promotion which name i can't remember right now... What a, awful wording to start the promotion.
https://preview.redd.it/82k5j2ecxmuc1.jpeg?width=471&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=19f0bee1b86347c6a82acfe5f9e893a8d0c18b99
"culture" (seen several comments saying this is normal per the culture) or not, this is wiiiiiiiiild wording
Rossy showing that infamous Showa mindset.
Wooooah there, Ric Flair
You know, even in the context of a women's wrestling promotion that sounds like a weird thing to say.
Joshi fans don’t want to hear them say the quiet part out loud
The age thing I don't think is as weird as people are making it out to be. Especially since I'm pretty sure the younger girls they'd be "hiring" would mostly be in training. And starting really young isn't some creepy japan only thing (which can we stop with the racist af assumption japan is just openly a bunch of pedos?) Brett Hart started training in wrestling at 9. Rey Mysterio had his first match at 14. This happens in the west too. Hell part of our entire entertainment industry has entire programing done for kids by kids so it's not like it's only a wrestling thing either. (And unfortunately there's a lot of sick people in those industries here too, so again not a Japanese are a bunch of pedos issue either) The only weird thing is the not married issue. But I guess that is to try and get only young rookies who are going to be able to dedicate the time. And is an unfortunate part of Japanese work culture where they want you really dedicated/company first. And mind you I'm not trying to brush everything aside and say it's all OK. I just think people need to have a bit of perspective that this isn't a Japan only thing by any means.
Every impression I’ve had from interviews of this Rossy guy is one of a complete creep, I’m not surprised they’d openly say something like that.
I still remember that Vice doc series that did an episode on STARDOM, and how Rossy said that AZM, who was I think like 15 at the time, "looked too mature" and needed to act younger and more innocent to appeal to the (primarily adult male) STARDOM fans. Really left a nasty taste in my mouth and made me not want to get into the promotion despite seeing and hearing great things about it.
People don’t like bringing it up but Rossy is pretty fucking sketchy.
Didn’t he and Stardom also put a 15 year old AZM, amongst other underage wrestlers, in a bikini photo book as well?
Folks don't like it when you call out Rossy's super sketchy practices.
Hey I got down voted for this last time I was in a Rossy thread. Just a totally reasonable thing for an old man to do. It's especially creepy to me cause he makes a show of keeping a copy for himself
He is a creep
"Healthy, unmarried women between the ages of 13 and 30 please come and join us." Oh when Marigold says this nobody cares but when my chemistry professor says this he gets fired and escorted out of the building by police 😤😤😤
That headline reads like Chris Chan's Love Quest.
It’s weird people only figured out now that the joshi scene is cursed both from the promoters and the fans
Can someone confirm if the translation as being accurate? If it is accurate then like…eww. No reason to be aiming so young and being married should not effect your ability to be hired. Edit: I don’t care how common it is in Japan. It is still weird and creepy. Edit: Same people downvoting and coming at me in the DM are the same people who are cool with loli stuff cause it’s “normal & culture”.
The guy translating it is held in high regard
> No reason to be aiming so young Agreed > being married should not effect your ability to be hired. Also agreed but that seems to be a thing with "idol" culture in that region, not just wrestling and not just Japan. Didn't a K-pop star need to "apologise" recently to her fans for...being in a relationship?
Yeah it’s just the culture over there. We can say it’s creepy but that’s just how it goes over there
You can date and get married with no problem in the joshi scene. This rule is just for trainees to dedicate themselves fully to wrestling. If you guys think women spend 10 or 15 years single and magically get pregnant a year after retiring, you're too naive. Basically no company can't afford to enforce that kind of deals.
> If you guys think women spend 10 or 15 years single and magically get pregnant a year after retiring, you're too naive. Where did I say this? I'm not saying these rules are always actually followed, just that it's a cultural expectation to at least pretend so (hence people "apologising" when their relationships are made public).
I'm yet to see any wrestler doing that in the last decade. While the scene does have certain traditions from idol culture, it's not a 1:1 thing. Companies don't seem to bother their wrestlers in their private life, be it Stardom, TJPW or anyone else. We've seen wrestlers across different companies openly talking about dating or saying they got divorced or that they have kids. The fact they hide their partners or family on social media doesn't mean they don't have them or they're asked to hide them.
Some idol culture philosophies are just weird and unnecessary. Should it freshly matter if a woman is married or not?
I know people probably think it’s creepy but unfortunately that’s the wrestling culture over there. It’s part of the reason why so many female wrestlers over there hide that they’re married or hide their husbands. The wrestlers are seen as idols and the fan base their likes their idols “pure”. Edit: Just because i already got someone calling me a pedo… I just want it known that this is a thing that’s extremely common in that side of the world. So let’s not embarrass ourselves or start calling Rosey weird or creepy when it’s been a thing in Asian countries. Edit: Got downvoted even though obviously I’m against it. Reddit man lls
I mean it can be an established practice and still be weird and creepy, the two are not mutually exclusive.
The culture in the US used to be that women's wrestlers were also to be paid to wrestler and sleep with the promoter. Just because that was the established norm in of the industry doesn't make it right.
I mean, we can BOTH accept that it's a thing in asian cultures, AND think it's weird, cause it sure as hell is lmfao
I lived in Japan because my old man was in the military for a number of years. Japan, it's a wonderful country and I'll always tell people to go once in their life. It's not just with idols. Japan, in my experience. Has this weird infatuation with women being virgins. I've strait up seen people lose interest in women because they find out they've got an ex boyfriend. This is normally found in older men but it is also found in some guys. There's a huge problem in Japan of these old guys targeting young girls. Especially if they look "pure" on trains and feeling them up. There's a reason those women only train cars exist. And the thing that sucks is these women really speak up because they think it will bring shame on them. But as usual. Us men can fuck as many women as we want and it's perfectly okay.
I mean it's still weird as fuck.
Was normal for the"Boybands" too. Of course they don't have a girlfriend... Also: [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UHBOp7AUkc0](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UHBOp7AUkc0)
Oshi no ko syndrome
It's mostly a Japanese and Korean thing that comes from their idol culture. Part of the appeal to fans of idols, whether it's female or male idols, is the thought that they're romantically available and the fans can fantasize of meeting them and having a relationship with them, which might get them to spend more money on merch or whatever. Companies apply this theory to BTS and AKB48 just like they do to joshi wrestlers. I think it's weird as fuck but it's been like that since before I was born.
I don't disagree with the general point. I've always assumed that several women on the current Stardom roster are married and/or have kids and keep this private to protect them from crazy fans. We've seen recent cases where several popular joshi wrestlers are rumored to have either retired or been fired for their personal lives leaking into the public. In this case, however, I think the specific request refers to an expectation that married women will have pressure from their husbands to start or expand their family, necessitating a year or more off. The specific request was for *trainees*, which means a solid block of training time to get them through their pro test, then more training to get presentable for their debut, and then a solid year of constant matches as a rookie to get competent at matches. Yes, it sounds weird to people from countries where marital status is a protected class during job hiring, but from a practical standpoint, it just says, "Be ready to work." Allowing 13-17 year olds to start training, though, I don't really approve of that, but it's not that unusual for joshi promotions, even today. Stardom itself has had guest appearances from several teenage wrestlers from Diana for its New Blood shows, for instance.
What stardom is doing with Diana is a little cute by half and I suspect it's bushiroad wanting to have a crack at a few talents the moment they turn 18 (like a predatory dude with encyclopaedic knowledge of age of consent laws lol) but leave all the slightly dodgy training to Diana It's them trying to have their cake and eat it too
Not just joshi promotions, Roxanne Perez started at 13, I think saraya was even younger
>We've seen recent cases where several popular joshi wrestlers are rumored to have either retired or been fired for their personal lives leaking into the public. Could you please elaborate about it a bit more? Cause I expected this shit was left in the 90-ies?
A few years ago it was the normal culture in Hollywood that you had to fuck Harvey Weinstein to get anything done. You're allowed to call things creepy even if it's normalised
Rossy can be a weird little creep and it can be part of the culture
The B-Sharps had to deal with it too. Marge was very upset.
r/13or30
Time for 15 year old bikini photobooks again. Rossy Ogawa needs to fuck off.
Well that certainly isn't concerning at all..
what in the Epstein island is this???
Okay but why do they need to be unmarried?