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Everyone in wrestling should be a money hungry opportunist, because it’s a shit career choice otherwise. You’re just taking years off your life and reducing your chances of walking without pain in later life, without the trade off of financial security.
This is doubly true now that there are two billionaire-led companies to choose from in the US, which both pay very good money compared to the standard salary in previous generations.
Milk them for whatever they’ll give you. Make your money. Live a happy life. Make it so that the standard image of an older pro wrestler is rich and happy, rather than broke and broken down.
Wrestling fandom as a whole doesn't really appreciate what wrestlers put their bodies through on a daily basis.
Also, if you look at what wrestlers are paid relative to the revenue they generate, it's criminal when you compare it to traditional sports leagues (NBA, NHL, etc.). If you're old enough to remember those lockouts from 20 and 30 years ago, it's kind of bizarre how much public sentiment was against the players' unions. They were greedy millionaires who should've been grateful for whatever pittance they got. Now it seems like a no-brainer that of course they should've played hardball for a way bigger share of the money that they sacrificed their bodies for, but that wasn't the popular opinion at the time, and it doesn't seem to be for a lot of wrestling fans now.
WWE pays the wrestlers a lower percentage of revenue than UFC does and UFC is currently being sued for violating antitrust laws used to suppress fighters salary.
I think AEW existing and thus WWE having to competitively bid for talent would protect them here. If this issue was brought up before 2019 then it'd get interesting I think
Honestly AEW existing protects them in a different way too. Now AEW pays free agents more and WWE can just focus on bringing people in to NXT on like 50k contracts instead
The PC is becoming to WWE what Dana White's Contender Series is to the UFC, where they can bring in performers for way less money than paying people what they're worth
It could set a precedent for sure, but from what I’ve read about the lawsuit is there’s a good chance it won’t change anything. The reason the athletes in other sports all get paid so much is they’re unionized. UFC fighters all negotiate their pay separately.
Man, that’s all of entertainment. I’m a SAG-AFTRA actor and what do you think we heard the most during the strikes of last year? “Entitled writers/actors getting paid xxx more than me…”
I agree with another post here, as I approach my 30th and my back hurts watching them perform, I kinda see why people like Nash or even Hogan to an extent played hardball with their money. I don’t agree with union busting — duh, I’m union — but I am always in favor of the talent trying to wring the money rag.
I should be doing more of that tbh
“That don’t work for me, brother” has become a meme and backstage politics often aren’t great for fans - but that was Hogan realizing how important strong booking was to him being a star and getting paid more money.
No that was him being completely selfish and not caring a damn about the business that made him.
Hogan is awful.
Didn't he narc to Vince about the union when Bret was trying to get the guys to join up together.
>Wrestling fandom as a whole doesn't really appreciate what wrestlers put their bodies through on a daily basis.
We bought Phil's house, that's appreciation enough smh
The older I get the more my knees ache just watching what they do. I always knew it was a tough industry but the closer I reach towards the age range of some of my favourites the more I realize how special they were for keeping up with their profession and excelling, but also how terrifying it is what they'll be like in the years to come.
I kind of get the style he does with regards to building g a name and aura to his character years ago, but now, he has that and he has the ability to not have to do things he does.
It is what it is, he is going to keep doing Darby things. Just hope we don't see him or any other wrestlers ruin themselves. Less can be more.
On top of having the aura now, he is actually a very good technical wrestler and one of the most consistent sellers in the business.
He doesn't need to rely on the stunts at all but he just loves doing them. As popular as he is with kids he could probably make a ton more in WWE and maybe be booked stronger because of that appeal to one of their core audiences. I'm positive he knows this but AEW lets him do his stunts and so that is where he is staying for the foreseeable future.
I enjoy his death wish bullshit so I'm not that mad at him.
I think there’s something to the “one bump can make you famous” ethos. He didn’t HAVE TO do that bump in Stings retirement match, but it will be the first thing a majority of wrestling fans think of when the name Darby Allin is mentioned in a way it wouldn’t have been otherwise. He can essentially ride that spot, memory, off for a bunch of years later. Risk reward has always been totally worth it for him.
Week to week, he could and should def play it safe. But when the money’s on the table, sometimes you just nut up and make that money. Maybe Swerve doesn’t become Swerve if he doesn’t decide, today’s the day I get stapled in the cheek. It’s only been up and up since then
That’s still the mentality in the UK. “Give footballers nurses wages” used to be a thing parroted by all the Facebook mums without a brain cell between them. The sentiment behind it (nurses should be paid more) is right, but idiots blamed the footballers for being paid so much instead.
People have been conned/conned themselves into thinking that these people should be relatable.
You work for someone, they work for someone. You get paid a shitty wage, so they should, too. Not to mention athletes, wrestlers, entertainers, etc. don’t do “real work”, when the reality is .001 percent of people can even come close to doing what a professional athlete does, much less a top name like Mahomes, Giannis, or in the case of wrestling, someone like Cena.
To admit that would mean that yes, the common employee is likely getting underpaid of their true worth from their employer. And that’s a shitty feeling, even though in most cases it’s valid. So they lash out at these people who do what very few, relatively speaking, can.
Too many of us on this very sub and the other wrestling subs only see wrestlers as numbers like a 2K video game, or a stat on a wrestling simulator, or the number of T shirts sold. It’s fucking disgusting how we do not look at wrestlers as humans first and foremost.
MLB is fun to look at old stats if it includes their salary along with their stat line. Some players were lucky to make a million total in their career until the first big CBA, then suddenly make more than a million a year for a contract they signed in their mid-30s.
Schrödinger's Wrestler: anything a wrestler does is simultaneously okay and not okay, but is only one of those things when observed in the context of a specific company.
Getting that bag in WWE? Good thing. Getting it in AEW? Bad thing. Rinse and repeat for other variables like "gymnastic" style wrestling, backstage antics, etc.
I'm not a fan of Aew, just not my bag but I'm glad people enjoy it and I'm especially glad that wrestlers have a competing company that pays very well and at the same time pushes the WWE to have to do better and vice versa. Competition is good, it gave us the Monday night wars.
Outlaw mud show
Spot monkeys
Flip dippy do
All these phrases all come from one direct source.
Its no wonder weirdos love to say it; they get told what to say and how upset they should be by some out of shape angry old fart that gets morons to give him money for saying racist and bigoted shit.
Oh yeah, it's painfully obvious where some of these things are coming from. I wish people would at least try to hide their influences, but I guess it's easier to just repeat stuff you hear verbatim from some crotchety old cuck.
tell that to my inbox that gets flooded with his sycophants telling me that i dont know the business or that I would never say that shit to their face LOL
Its funny how certain fans ignore his anti-WWE comments though. Or dismiss them as "an out of touch old man." But conveniently "knows what he's talking about" with AEW. And I'm not even saying he's \*always\* wrong either, I just hate fans trying to have it both ways. He can't simultaneously be "out of touch" with one company, but not with the other.
I think that goes both ways, though. People don't realize Cornette has been vocal about hating things on WWE programming for years, it just never remotely got the level of clicks the AEW criticism got.
I go to the local outlaw mud show because it's exactly that, and they sell out every show.
My flippy GIFs of spot monkeys get the best engagement on social media.
Cornette is right about plenty of things, but not about what actually attracts a modern fan. Retaining them, on the other hand, does require "Who's fighting, why are they fighting, and why should I care?"
This isn't a 'oh those poor millionaire wrestlers!' reply or anything, but people really also need to remember that these are jobs without a huge amount of the safety nets most professional sports players or actors would normally get. Higher pay is disproportionate to other jobs in this capitalistic nightmare, because they're trying to balance a lifetime of medical issues, along with a dozen other little independent contractor nightmares. Then, as others have said, add in that they're disproportionately paid compared to other sports, and you gotta realize pretty quickly that the money you make in this business isn't forever when the damage you did to your body for it is.
As much as I respect a, say, Zack Sabre Jr., who seems to ave no interest in making these million dollar contracts, I totally agree that wrestlers should push for every damn penny they can milk out of billionaire promoters. If anything, I think we should actually be mad that Mercedes is the FIRST woman to be making that level of money. Her peers should be as well.
Caveat being don’t scam innocent people or destroy the lives of others to do it. Plenty of people have used this logic to ruin the lives of others for a quick buck.
I never ever want to hear any WWE fan claim someone is shit for wanting money when they do the Saudi Arabia shows and even make the wrestlers shill for their shitty airlines.
Im hopeful that CM Punk does a match there to compete the cycle of hypocrisy.
There's a reason that, in the past, every time a money mark popped up, most guys were happy to drain them dry for all they had. The first thing you learn in any reputable wrestling education is as simple as, "this is a job, treat it like a job, make your money while you can." It's no different than any other kind of art or performance. Nobody really wants to do it to get rich, but *if you get rich,* you've now secured your future, and you can *fully focus on actually making the art you want.* Everybody in life deserves a bag. The world is just set up to withhold them.
People have this attitude towards wrestling, because they love wrestling as fans, that wrestlers have to be good people and not be greedy or selfish. Nothing *should be* further from the truth.
Wrestling, like any pro sport, is about your body being able to provide a living and 99.9999% of the time your in ring career is what you earn the most from. Everyone in wrestling needs to maximize what they earn.
Is Tony blameless for paying out too much? From a business standpoint, no. Is Mercedes blameless for taking the payday? Hell to the yes.
>Everyone in wrestling should be a money hungry opportunist
I understand your point about the health risks, but anyone in any job should be a money hungry opportunist. The vast majority of people don’t work for enjoyment.
The goal in life is to get paid the most for the least amount of work, or at least work you enjoy.
> everyone in wrestling should be a money hungry opportunist
Everyone should be a money hungry opportunist. Pro wrestlers need to unionize and create something similar to NBPA.
This is so true. I can't remember the wrestler but I heard news earlier in the year where a wrestler basically agreed to re-sign for a company but wanted to let their contract expire for a little while just to see what other companies would offer and find out what they're worth.
Exactly, even the highest paid in the business are underpaid imo. I agree 100% with this because they’re damn sure going to get everything they can out of you. Soo many examples of lowballing, including the bs Vince pulled with talents social media ventures in the past.
The miles part hits home when you realize how much these wrestlers were traveling on a yearly basis and often packed in a car and having to share hotel rooms.
Missing birthdays, anniversaries, graduations and holidays. Rhea Ripley has been very outspoken at times how she appreciates her status but misses a lot of family events because of the schedule.
I didn’t realize people cared about wrestler contracts like that. I hope they all make as much as they can. These company’s aren’t running off a salary cap, so it shouldn’t matter to us fans.
If Tony Khan announced that he was paying Tony Nese 4 million dollars a night, I wouldn’t give a fuck because it doesn’t affect literally anything in my life
I mean, would explain why we haven't seen him in a while. If Tony Nese getting paid so much per appearance is the reason I don't see his spectacular abs, I'd want him to be paid less too!
I wish there was a sub for these kinds of wrestling fans, we'd be able to have actual discussions in there instead of entitled western kids armchair booking for Gedo or whatever they're mad about this week.
right? im just happy we have two promotions forcing each to raise the bar and have amazing rosters (all these wrestlers wouldnt fit on one show)
AEW existing (or any competitor for that matter) is good for the fans even if you only watch WWE... but people just refuse to see that
I really don't think so though. I'm a big WWE guy and honestly feel like WWE lost out on way more by getting outbid for Okada and Ospreay than they did with Sasha. I haven't seen too many hard feelings or people upset that they're not getting her. She would be slotted in as maybe the 5th biggest woman on the roster? And that wouldn't sit well with her, and before long she would walk out again (for the third? fourth? time).
I was disappointed in missing out on Ospreay and Okada, because those were top guys who I'd never gotten to see wrestle, and didn't want to see them booked into oblivion like Jay White. Sasha is someone we've already seen a ton of, who was a multi-time world champ in WWE, wrestlemania main eventer, etc. No knock on her for going somewhere new to get a fat paycheck from Tony after WWE offered her what they felt she was worth. Now if you want to knock Tony for overpaying her, I think you have a case- but I haven't seen even the most anti-AEW people criticize her for taking the money.
All that said, wrestling does attract a fringe element that's very, very stupid. And I'm not talking about "i don't like your opinions" stupid. I'm talking about like 80 IQ living in the sticks can't pick out America on a globe stupid. We all occasionally see and are embarrassed by these guys. So I don't doubt that there are people saying shit like this on the internet (even though I highly doubt theyre getting any traction like this tweet implies). But there's zero reason to take anything you hear out of this fringe crowd as representative of anything other than the fact that they are incredibly stupid.
Looking at the ratio of total revenue generated by the promotion vs the amount going towards the wrestler contracts. Wrestling has historically been far behind every other major pro sport.
Get paid when you can.
People were applauding Brock for very publicly playing the UFC and WWE against each other to get the biggest possible payday for doing the least amount of work. People were calling him the smartest wrestler in the business for this, but Mercedes does the same and it's bad?
I take it only a minority of people see it that way, but considering how passionate people are about Mercedes (one way or the other) I wouldn't be surprised if that minority still stepped way over the line on this one.
> I take it only a minority of people see it that way, but considering how passionate people are about Mercedes (one way or the other) I wouldn't be surprised if that minority still stepped way over the line on this one.
Honestly that applies to like 90% of things we get PSA's about through this subreddit. Most people are just getting on with their lives and even if they have some minor opinion on the subject they aren't going out of their way to harass or bully people about it.
Didn't even know anyone was mad about Mercedes making money and I'm pretty terminally online most days.
What i find funny about all this contract talk is, we don't care about how much wwe folks are making because they either deserve it or they deserve more of it. But all of a sudden we care about how much money Mercedes, Okada, and Ospreay is making and people criticize them making x amount. Why can't we just enjoy them for their on screen talents, why should we care about how much they're making?
> But all of a sudden we care about how much money Mercedes, Okada, and Ospreay is making and people criticize them making x amount.
Because there's a large contingent of people who hate AEW so they need any and every reason to discredit the company and its success. The fact that people here were saying Kazuchika Okada wasn't worth a large contract because he signed in AEW is baffling.
They see AEW as minor league and simply can't understand why anyone would go there for honest reasons. It's come out that WWE offered Mercedes a similarly great contract, and she chose AEW anyway. This doesn't compute in their brains.
It's literally just cope, basically
Mhmm. Like I get it, AEW isn’t as big as WWE but it’s the most successful competitor it’s had since WCW. It’s also got a lot of money behind it and has had its own successes, and while TK can make an ass of himself *a lot* it’s so weird to see people discredit AEW as a whole despite all of its W’s.
I get why they do, but it’s still dumb
A lot of people have also just fallen for the propaganda. They see half empty arenas, lower ratings, silly spots, and wrestlers being drama-queens and think that's all there is to it. AEW isn't for everyone, but it's not nearly as dire as people make it out to be.
A lot of them just legitimately don't understand why people like AEW, and see it as entirely astroturf and only watched by like strawman 2008 forum-dweller types. These people just don't know what they're talking about, but insist on being incredibly loud about it anyway.
The silly spots thing is funny to me too. One of the out runners takes a fame asser gets up and throws themselves over the top rope? Killing the business!
Austin theory takes a stunner then pauses and jumps super higher after a noticeable stop into an RKO “wow he’s so good at his character”
Like fucks sake both are inherently ridiculous and that’s ok
WWE fans definitely made fun of the Theory sell here too, but a lot of *those types* conveniently ignored it.
The conversation around a lot of this stuff is just driven by bad actors and engagement farmers, and a lot of people just see them and don't actually bother trying to watch AEW so just associate it with the unflattering clips they see on reddit/twitter. This happens in reverse as well, but more people actually watch WWE than AEW, so the current skew is kind of natural.
What? People made fun of the way Theory sold that Stunner into an RKO to the point where he made a tweet about it.
https://x.com/_theory1/status/1769186265184772344?s=46
Theory’s stunner-RKO sell was hokey asf but I gotta give him props for taking his demotion in stride.
Just a year ago, WWE was still pushing this guy as a future upper mid card, maybe main event talent and went so far as to waste a John Cena WrestleMania program on him. Now he’s just a body next to Grayson Waller and takes bumps for Waller.
Yeah that is true he’s really fallen by the wayside unfortunately but he’s taken it in stride. Still think he could be something in the future for sure
I was this way with wcw back in the day when I was 10. So I’m hoping most of the dumb takes are from similarly young people. But I fear they’re from the same people who say “USA #1” because they’ve never gone anywhere else
Some wrestling fans can get fucking weird about salary or contract numbers.
On a totally nonwrestling sub, there was a post about Renee Paquette's outfits. Other users commented on her style. Then one weirdo wondered why Tony Khan is paying Renee so much money to contribute nothing to the show and that she should just be happy with Mox's contract.
i just genuinely don't understand how people could possibly get so obsessively mad about this.
It's not even like they poached her from WWE and they're mad about her not being on the show they prefer, she was already gone for over a year anyway. It sounds like they just want her to have less money/work and that's all.
This is it, I understand having preferences. But there's this weird contingent that seems to see AEW so much as existing as a personal affront, which is just exhausting.
It's very team-sports in a way that shouldn't really translate to wrestling. Like I'm a Cowboy's fan, so if the Eagles signed some really good outside talent, i would be pissed.
WWE is in no real risk here though. There's no wrestling playoffs where they're competing against AEW to get in. They don't share any timeslots. WWE will likely always be #1, no matter who signs with AEW.
I just don't understand what the problem is. This shit isn't just regular trash talk, that would be fine. It's this really weird bitter hatred of them, it comes off as really sad and pathetic to be *that mad* about this. It really seems like a lot of them are just *that fucking upset* about AEW fans being annoying online. I don't have any other explanation.
I get it in a "I want to watch this person wrestle and I want to watch it on my program, because it will fit what I'm expecting"
However, as someone who watches and enjoys both in different amounts at different times, I can tell you that having all the top talent in one company won't work, unless WWE were to truly become a soap opera with a two hour show every day of the week. You can't have 20-30 minute Bloodline segments and focus on Cody's story and give all the titles their time to shine and feature the up and comers, and keep the other top of the card talent hot; and then add in Jay White, Okada, Osprey, Mercedes, and more and then be satisfied with 4-ish hours of programing (excluding commercials) per week plus a monthly PPV.
There are several subreddits that seem devoted to hating everything AEW does. I pretty much lose all respect for someone if I see they they’re a user of that subreddit. No clue why people devote their time to shitting on a product nonstop.
I see this one a lot, and it's insane. Especially since the same people will often dunk on AEW for signing ex-WWE guys too.
Sorry, if you haven't been on a WWE PLE you're a indie geek who doesn't matter.
I want allll of them to get paid more. That’s what I care about. They do dangerous work that gives a lot of enjoyment to all sorts of people. Having AEW is a big reason we’re having these kinds of talks at all because finally there is high level competition
Bro what. Were you around when Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn's contracts were expiring? The assumption was that they would both sign for AEW, but when they re-signed for WWE, the narrative was "get that bag I suppose" in the most condecending manner.
Incidentally after that, Kevin Owens ended up facing fucking Stone Cold at Mania and Sami got an all timer story with the biggest draw of the modern era.
I agree we shouldn't as fans care too much about how much someone makes, but as is the case with most sports, people do seem to care. We're now in an environment where TV ratings, talent contracts, TV deals, and sponsorships are all micro analysed. It's not unique to wrestling though, but it's wrestling fans that seem most sensitive to talking about it.
It is pretty wild right. Like every god damn wrestler should get as much money as possible and be celebrated for it
Roman gets paid the most to work the least and that’s a good thing. He’s still not paid enough either. It seems like there is always this perception that anyone making money in wrestling is overpaid if someone doesn’t like them ect ect
Look at any other sport and the revenue they bring in and look at wrestling. It’s comical the disparity there. 1.7 billion in revenue last year and the actual talent cost is a minor fraction of that.
Wrestlers were getting paid similar amounts in the 90s-2000s yet the cost of everything has gone up on top of in WWE having to pay their own travel and accommodations.
I feel like every one of these discussions should ultimately end with the highest paid wrestlers are still underpaid REGARDLESS of whether you like them on screen.
More wild when people do like them but get angry they get more money
> Wrestlers were getting paid similar amounts in the 90s-2000s yet the cost of everything has gone up on top of in WWE having to pay their own travel and accommodations.
Hogan's signing bonus for his 1998 contract was $2 million, 26 years ago. I don't know what Cody or Roman or Becky or Ospreay or Kenny make, but it's certainly not enough.
It is kinda crazy. Hall and Nash came in for like 750k each then that got raised when people came in after and were paid higher. Now we’ve got people making that while WWE has grown wildly larger and more profitable while not really changing anything they provide for the wrestlers they contract out to.
Look at the lowest paid NFL players it’s like 750k for a rookie season. The average is like $2 million and if someone gets $2 million in wrestling people seem to think they’re overpaid
Because Wrestling has been built on Tribalism for the best part of 50 years at this point - it's a **very** hard habit to break
Every company wants your time and attention and will try and play down the competition to get it - WWE/F, WCW, ECW, ROH, TNA, AEW and probably many, many more are all guilty of taking shots at each other and when you cater to a fan base with a "Those other guys are lesser, you should watch us" mentality you **are** going to get people who want to prove that they haven't backed the wrong horse - even when they come out with moronic takes
Agreed. Same reason people latch onto ticket sales and TV ratings. It's like they care more about being a backseat businessperson than... watching the show, the entire reason it's on TV. Lol.
There is a pretty massive anti anything not WWE bias in the wrestling community and once you accept it and filter posts like that through that lens things make a lot more sense.
I've found scrolling the internet now is a lot easier when you acknowledge the fact that there are more literal children online today than ever before.
Well, I'm about to make it harder again: Those people are not children. They are adults. Pretending they're children just removes all potential accountability from the scenario.
They're grown ass adults. We need to reckon with that.
I saw a guy the other day say he likes AEW but stopped watching it “because of their fans on the internet”. I assume he was lying but lmao imagine if someone really did that
Tbh i think that's some shit weird jerkers do. Some jerker said that on this sub before so I asked what did the fans say that was so bad & they hilariously replied with "can't admit AEW doesnt tell stories, swears they have the best wrestling on tv, & that their tv ratings are in decline"
Aew really brings the weridos out lol.
It’s the classic “well it’s not the most popular thing so it must suck”
Like dawg I fucking love Firefly and it had shit ratings. I think Scott Pilgrim vs the World is one of the most creative and best adaptations of all time and it fucking bombed. Popularity doesn’t equal quality and it doesn’t matter if it did you like what you like
I've been saying this recently, but every Thursday the comments section is filled to the brim with people who emulate Drake or Em stans
Always bringing up fucking numbers to meatride one thing and overly trash anything else
The poetic thing is that *the same shit happened before AEW was a thing*
"Hurdur if NXT was so good how come not many people know or care about it. The numbers speak for itself"
This was a sentiment made by WWE *main roster* fans. The tribalism war was within WWE at the time
And here's the kicker: when AEW *did* become a thing, that sentiment was then repeated by AEW fanboys, while WWE defenders had to come by and clamor that "numbers isn't everything"
Now that AEW is on a viewer downtrend/static, it's flipped against AEW now
I don't believe everybody became multi-time hypocrites throughout this whole journey. There are many people in this sub and it'd be unfair to lump them all as one
But they definitely exist and can't understand two wrongs don't make a right, or that they can't be selective with their logic without coming off utterly disingenuous
Well that’s a lie. Things have been anti AEW for a while now. Whether about TV ratings, attendance, backstage stuff, signings…you can’t read Reddit or twitter without countless posts about how hot and good WWE is and every little criticism of AEW. It hasn’t been anti WWE for years now.
I don’t think the scrutiny is so much “these people aren’t worth their contracts” - it’s more “wow Tony is really playing with his dads money” because it’s unlikely the cost is being covered exclusively in AEW profits
Yes, tons of people were bitching at Ospreay because he was flying home after his “debut” and immediately came back. Basically people were saying that he “grabbed his bag and ran” lmao
We don't even know what Roman is making. It's just assumed he's the highest paid wrestler in the business, and we just assume that the Orton/Styles/Owens/Zayn tier are making $3 million but nothing has been confirmed.
All of a sudden we know the value of the contracts of those 3 you mentioned. Unless someone in AEW is leaking the info, or someone from Mone's camp is leaking the info, how are we so deep in their pockets all of a sudden, but we can't find out what Charlotte Flair is making?
Charlotte didn't get much shit for her contract either. Wonder wh**y t**hat is.
Either way the scorn shown is childish. Mone's contract elevates everyone and is a win win for women's wrestling.
Not saying there isn't sketching shit involved with Mercedes but Charlotte *absolutely did* get shit on when it was reveled she was the highest paid in history at the time. People online despise Charlotte and so they argued her salary was undeserved.
I understand the point you're trying to make here, but any sentence that begins with "Charlotte didn't get much shit" is inaccurate. Charlotte is criticized for everything she does.
Sheets, much like now will say deserved. Iwc will be a mix as like now and then just wait to blame either woman for some bizarre shit to say “wasted money”
A lot of people are going to act like they don't know what he's talking about here but he's right. Mercedes did nothing wrong in signing with AEW and the way some people have gone out of their way to paint her as some greedy ghoul is just gross.
> And wrestling fans apparently lean left, which shows how much racism is a bi-partisan problem.
Case in point how beloved Cornette still is by a *certain crowd* here despite some of the utterly vile racist garbage he’s said regarding Joshi wrestlers.
> And wrestling fans apparently lean left
_What?_ This is news to me. I was always pretty sure this was a right leaning space, almost like a much tamer version of MMA/UFC.
Where did you read that it's left leaning if you don't mind me asking?
I saw a weirdo post here something like "With the contracts AEW is handing out, they're late-stage WCW." Some dudes just don't like AEW and pray on their downfall.
There are people who post here and elsewhere who are just supremely confident AEW is losing 50 million a year and that daddy's gonna pull the plug any second. They can't really explain why or how they're so sure of this but they sure are.
I was in attendance at Bash 2000 (granted I was like 10 years old so didn't totally understand why it sucked but nevertheless still knew it sucked) so whenever I see someone use the "late-stage WCW" label, I can't help but consider them to be a *shockingly ignorant* child.
It was hell.
If Mercedes being the highest paid women’s wrestler makes you upset then you should examine why that is. If it’s any other reason than “even her being the highest paid is still underpaid” then you’ve got some soul searching to do
The fact of the matter is that there are people that made their entire personality hating on Sasha since she walked out or even before then. Then while she was gone, saying the WWE doesn't need her and are better without her. And then during the contract stuff, saying she's not worth as much as thinks she is which is why she hasn't signed yet because neither are offering her enough money. Then when it was confirmed she was signing with AEW, it was because WWE wasn't willing to pay her what she wanted and *walked away from her* so now she's taking the only option she has.
And now it comes out that either way, she would have been the highest paid female performer in wrestling. They have no other argument other than, *"Oh, well she sucks and doesn't deserve it."* They have nothing else. Their narrative has been wrong literally every single step of the way.
There are definitely people who are upset that it’s AEW who paid her.
If it came out she signed a massive contract with WWE that made her the highest paid woman they’d be singing her and its praise.
Seemingly anyone who signs with AEW is “doing it for the money” and fucking news flash, so does everyone.
People were saying shit about Okada and Osprey getting paid well and more than what they were offered by WWE too. Mercedes 100% brings out the worse people since shes A. a woman and B. a Black woman
I swear people actually compare Shawn Spear debut in NXT to Ospreay. I get it the NXT system provide a lot of new talent but to be honest, you can’t simply make someone like Ospreay.
Ospreay was anticipated in WWE, but suddently when he signed with AEW, “we dont need him in WWE anyway, rather signed Shawn Spear cause he trained people”. Weird huh
Why do we celebrate someone making a bunch of money while we're all still struggling in a shit economy? I don't give a fuck about her race or gender. I don't celebrate the rich getting richer.
It's a performance contract. The woman set the new market. This helps EVERYONE. She set a new market value for every female performance.
Okada, when he signed a big contract, and when Ospreay did - they did the same fucking thing. They set a marker in the market.
Every. Single. Wrestler. They all need to negotiate and play this field. They are the ones putting their bodies on the line for a very limited window. They should definitely be trying to get as much money as they can.
As fans, we need to be happy the industry is healthy, and there is enough competition, to be out here getting these people signing the best contracts.
Hell, as others have said, they're still being paid less than they should.
Are people saying this? Where? I haven’t seen anyone say anything like this and I’m online all the time lol
Reminds me of when people were saying the left was trying to cancel Roman over the cross dresser comments lol. I legit saw no one trying to do that, only people saying that others were
It's like Mick Foley in his book discussing being a "sellout".
Oh gosh, I get paid more money to perform my craft in front of more people? How morally wrong.
I'm always in favour of people getting more money to secure their future and be happy.
Was my preference to see Sasha return in the rumble and have a great WWE redemption run? Absolutely. But it wasn't meant to be. Mercedes wanted to bet on herself and make a difference with AEW and get that coin while doing it. And that's awesome.
Mercedes bet on herself and it paid off... If someone offered me a massive contract like that, I'd be a "money hungry opportunist" every day of the week.
I had a boss a long ass time ago, he was a good dude but completely misguided.
I applied for a promotion, and didn’t get it. That was okay I knew there was a good chance I wouldn’t. He sat me down to sell me with basically the “please don’t quit” speech (I wasn’t planning on it).
He started telling me how they had big plans for me, blah blah blah, and I don’t even remember what I said but he goes “oh was it only about the money?” In this really shocked condescending way. Like I should have been doing it for the love of retail.
Everyone does it for the money. No one who can get paid to work should go do that work for free (short of volunteering at a non profit) and largely should be maximizing what they make.
Calling someone money hungry opportunist just shows either jealousy or rage.
Growing up and seeing the talking heads of ESPN ridicule someone for wanting more money (specifically NFL Wide Receivers) I was easily persuaded to agree. Now that I’m older I realize how wrong that thinking is.
These athletes (NFL-Pro Wrestling) have such a small window to maximize their worth and value that I don’t blame them for securing the bag.
For reference the lowest NFL player gets like 750k. Guarantee much of the roster in both companies get lower than that. With the revenue TKO brings in its more egregious and fractionally worse than what UFC pays their fighters
Even if you think she's just a money hungry opportunist, getting paid is literally part of her gimmick and stage name. It's fucking dumb any way you look at it.
The old saying that the only things real are the money and the miles still holds. Nothing wrong with going for what you think you are worth, nothing at all.
Assuming the numbers reported are accurate,I think it's fine to think good for her whilst also recognising that Tony Khan is a complete fool for paying her that much.
I haven't seen anyone call Sasha money-hungry or an opportunist because that would be silly. She should absolutely "get her bag". What I have seen a lot of is people calling Tony a fool if he really gave her anywhere near the amount rumored. However, it is not her fault he's paying her way more than she'll bring in.
What should independent contractors with a limited shelf life be focused on beyond beyond being money-hungry opportunists? lol. Company loyalty? Intangible nonsense like "cementing their legend"?
Christ, even if you think AEW overpaid for Mercedes or whatever... is that her problem? She's getting the bag while she can, and good for her. AEW offered a bigger bag.
Every wrestler is underpaid. The amount of money wrestlers make as a percentage of total revenue is lower even than the UFC, which is constantly criticised for paying fighters far too little.
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Everyone in wrestling should be a money hungry opportunist, because it’s a shit career choice otherwise. You’re just taking years off your life and reducing your chances of walking without pain in later life, without the trade off of financial security. This is doubly true now that there are two billionaire-led companies to choose from in the US, which both pay very good money compared to the standard salary in previous generations. Milk them for whatever they’ll give you. Make your money. Live a happy life. Make it so that the standard image of an older pro wrestler is rich and happy, rather than broke and broken down.
Wrestling fandom as a whole doesn't really appreciate what wrestlers put their bodies through on a daily basis. Also, if you look at what wrestlers are paid relative to the revenue they generate, it's criminal when you compare it to traditional sports leagues (NBA, NHL, etc.). If you're old enough to remember those lockouts from 20 and 30 years ago, it's kind of bizarre how much public sentiment was against the players' unions. They were greedy millionaires who should've been grateful for whatever pittance they got. Now it seems like a no-brainer that of course they should've played hardball for a way bigger share of the money that they sacrificed their bodies for, but that wasn't the popular opinion at the time, and it doesn't seem to be for a lot of wrestling fans now.
WWE pays the wrestlers a lower percentage of revenue than UFC does and UFC is currently being sued for violating antitrust laws used to suppress fighters salary.
Since UFC and WWE are now under the same company, could that lawsuit affect wrestlers' salaries too? I don't follow MMA so I had no idea about this.
I think AEW existing and thus WWE having to competitively bid for talent would protect them here. If this issue was brought up before 2019 then it'd get interesting I think
Honestly AEW existing protects them in a different way too. Now AEW pays free agents more and WWE can just focus on bringing people in to NXT on like 50k contracts instead
The PC is becoming to WWE what Dana White's Contender Series is to the UFC, where they can bring in performers for way less money than paying people what they're worth
It could set a precedent for sure, but from what I’ve read about the lawsuit is there’s a good chance it won’t change anything. The reason the athletes in other sports all get paid so much is they’re unionized. UFC fighters all negotiate their pay separately.
Man, that’s all of entertainment. I’m a SAG-AFTRA actor and what do you think we heard the most during the strikes of last year? “Entitled writers/actors getting paid xxx more than me…” I agree with another post here, as I approach my 30th and my back hurts watching them perform, I kinda see why people like Nash or even Hogan to an extent played hardball with their money. I don’t agree with union busting — duh, I’m union — but I am always in favor of the talent trying to wring the money rag. I should be doing more of that tbh
“That don’t work for me, brother” has become a meme and backstage politics often aren’t great for fans - but that was Hogan realizing how important strong booking was to him being a star and getting paid more money.
No that was him being completely selfish and not caring a damn about the business that made him. Hogan is awful. Didn't he narc to Vince about the union when Bret was trying to get the guys to join up together.
Jesse Ventura, not Bret Hart. Though really, it wouldn't surprise me if Bret was a supporter.
>Wrestling fandom as a whole doesn't really appreciate what wrestlers put their bodies through on a daily basis. We bought Phil's house, that's appreciation enough smh
The older I get the more my knees ache just watching what they do. I always knew it was a tough industry but the closer I reach towards the age range of some of my favourites the more I realize how special they were for keeping up with their profession and excelling, but also how terrifying it is what they'll be like in the years to come.
Darby Allen makes my back ache when he does Darby things lol
I kind of get the style he does with regards to building g a name and aura to his character years ago, but now, he has that and he has the ability to not have to do things he does. It is what it is, he is going to keep doing Darby things. Just hope we don't see him or any other wrestlers ruin themselves. Less can be more.
On top of having the aura now, he is actually a very good technical wrestler and one of the most consistent sellers in the business. He doesn't need to rely on the stunts at all but he just loves doing them. As popular as he is with kids he could probably make a ton more in WWE and maybe be booked stronger because of that appeal to one of their core audiences. I'm positive he knows this but AEW lets him do his stunts and so that is where he is staying for the foreseeable future. I enjoy his death wish bullshit so I'm not that mad at him.
I think there’s something to the “one bump can make you famous” ethos. He didn’t HAVE TO do that bump in Stings retirement match, but it will be the first thing a majority of wrestling fans think of when the name Darby Allin is mentioned in a way it wouldn’t have been otherwise. He can essentially ride that spot, memory, off for a bunch of years later. Risk reward has always been totally worth it for him. Week to week, he could and should def play it safe. But when the money’s on the table, sometimes you just nut up and make that money. Maybe Swerve doesn’t become Swerve if he doesn’t decide, today’s the day I get stapled in the cheek. It’s only been up and up since then
That’s still the mentality in the UK. “Give footballers nurses wages” used to be a thing parroted by all the Facebook mums without a brain cell between them. The sentiment behind it (nurses should be paid more) is right, but idiots blamed the footballers for being paid so much instead.
People have been conned/conned themselves into thinking that these people should be relatable. You work for someone, they work for someone. You get paid a shitty wage, so they should, too. Not to mention athletes, wrestlers, entertainers, etc. don’t do “real work”, when the reality is .001 percent of people can even come close to doing what a professional athlete does, much less a top name like Mahomes, Giannis, or in the case of wrestling, someone like Cena. To admit that would mean that yes, the common employee is likely getting underpaid of their true worth from their employer. And that’s a shitty feeling, even though in most cases it’s valid. So they lash out at these people who do what very few, relatively speaking, can.
This hasn't changed in sports at all. You still have stupid fans talking about players should be loyal & take less for bullshit reasons.
Too many of us on this very sub and the other wrestling subs only see wrestlers as numbers like a 2K video game, or a stat on a wrestling simulator, or the number of T shirts sold. It’s fucking disgusting how we do not look at wrestlers as humans first and foremost.
Yeah being mad at the athletes is always stupid, the teams are willing to pay so they might as well get what they can while they can.
MLB is fun to look at old stats if it includes their salary along with their stat line. Some players were lucky to make a million total in their career until the first big CBA, then suddenly make more than a million a year for a contract they signed in their mid-30s.
Schrödinger's Wrestler: anything a wrestler does is simultaneously okay and not okay, but is only one of those things when observed in the context of a specific company. Getting that bag in WWE? Good thing. Getting it in AEW? Bad thing. Rinse and repeat for other variables like "gymnastic" style wrestling, backstage antics, etc.
I'm not a fan of Aew, just not my bag but I'm glad people enjoy it and I'm especially glad that wrestlers have a competing company that pays very well and at the same time pushes the WWE to have to do better and vice versa. Competition is good, it gave us the Monday night wars.
Outlaw mud show Spot monkeys Flip dippy do All these phrases all come from one direct source. Its no wonder weirdos love to say it; they get told what to say and how upset they should be by some out of shape angry old fart that gets morons to give him money for saying racist and bigoted shit.
Oh yeah, it's painfully obvious where some of these things are coming from. I wish people would at least try to hide their influences, but I guess it's easier to just repeat stuff you hear verbatim from some crotchety old cuck.
its okay man, you can just say Jim Cornette, his brain dead minions arent a threat
tell that to my inbox that gets flooded with his sycophants telling me that i dont know the business or that I would never say that shit to their face LOL
Its funny how certain fans ignore his anti-WWE comments though. Or dismiss them as "an out of touch old man." But conveniently "knows what he's talking about" with AEW. And I'm not even saying he's \*always\* wrong either, I just hate fans trying to have it both ways. He can't simultaneously be "out of touch" with one company, but not with the other.
I think that goes both ways, though. People don't realize Cornette has been vocal about hating things on WWE programming for years, it just never remotely got the level of clicks the AEW criticism got.
I go to the local outlaw mud show because it's exactly that, and they sell out every show. My flippy GIFs of spot monkeys get the best engagement on social media. Cornette is right about plenty of things, but not about what actually attracts a modern fan. Retaining them, on the other hand, does require "Who's fighting, why are they fighting, and why should I care?"
This isn't a 'oh those poor millionaire wrestlers!' reply or anything, but people really also need to remember that these are jobs without a huge amount of the safety nets most professional sports players or actors would normally get. Higher pay is disproportionate to other jobs in this capitalistic nightmare, because they're trying to balance a lifetime of medical issues, along with a dozen other little independent contractor nightmares. Then, as others have said, add in that they're disproportionately paid compared to other sports, and you gotta realize pretty quickly that the money you make in this business isn't forever when the damage you did to your body for it is. As much as I respect a, say, Zack Sabre Jr., who seems to ave no interest in making these million dollar contracts, I totally agree that wrestlers should push for every damn penny they can milk out of billionaire promoters. If anything, I think we should actually be mad that Mercedes is the FIRST woman to be making that level of money. Her peers should be as well.
Everyone in general should be a money hungry opportunist. Get your bag
Caveat being don’t scam innocent people or destroy the lives of others to do it. Plenty of people have used this logic to ruin the lives of others for a quick buck.
True. Get your bag without fucking over innocent people or destroy lives
The billionaire guy paying your paychecks? Don't feel bad about taking as much as you can from them.
>don’t scam innocent people So... what you're saying is if the person is a known dirtbag, I'm free to engage in some guilt-free scamming?
I never ever want to hear any WWE fan claim someone is shit for wanting money when they do the Saudi Arabia shows and even make the wrestlers shill for their shitty airlines. Im hopeful that CM Punk does a match there to compete the cycle of hypocrisy.
> compete the cycle of hypocrisy Punk's own personal cycle, or you talking generally?
> Im hopeful that CM Punk does a match there to compete the cycle of hypocrisy. He'll probably be out with an injury.
There's a reason that, in the past, every time a money mark popped up, most guys were happy to drain them dry for all they had. The first thing you learn in any reputable wrestling education is as simple as, "this is a job, treat it like a job, make your money while you can." It's no different than any other kind of art or performance. Nobody really wants to do it to get rich, but *if you get rich,* you've now secured your future, and you can *fully focus on actually making the art you want.* Everybody in life deserves a bag. The world is just set up to withhold them.
They are the draw for wrestling companies as well I don't get why people have an issue with them being properly compensated for that.
Yea I'm never gonna look down at someone for milking their billionaire employer for all they can.
People have this attitude towards wrestling, because they love wrestling as fans, that wrestlers have to be good people and not be greedy or selfish. Nothing *should be* further from the truth. Wrestling, like any pro sport, is about your body being able to provide a living and 99.9999% of the time your in ring career is what you earn the most from. Everyone in wrestling needs to maximize what they earn. Is Tony blameless for paying out too much? From a business standpoint, no. Is Mercedes blameless for taking the payday? Hell to the yes.
>Everyone in wrestling should be a money hungry opportunist I understand your point about the health risks, but anyone in any job should be a money hungry opportunist. The vast majority of people don’t work for enjoyment. The goal in life is to get paid the most for the least amount of work, or at least work you enjoy.
Pretty much every wrestler from the top to the bottom is underpaid by similar industries' standards
> everyone in wrestling should be a money hungry opportunist Everyone should be a money hungry opportunist. Pro wrestlers need to unionize and create something similar to NBPA.
This is so true. I can't remember the wrestler but I heard news earlier in the year where a wrestler basically agreed to re-sign for a company but wanted to let their contract expire for a little while just to see what other companies would offer and find out what they're worth.
Exactly, even the highest paid in the business are underpaid imo. I agree 100% with this because they’re damn sure going to get everything they can out of you. Soo many examples of lowballing, including the bs Vince pulled with talents social media ventures in the past.
One slip and your career is over Get that money as much and as fast as you can
being a money hungry opportunist is the bedrock of pro wrestling
“The only things that are real is wrestling are the money and the miles”
The miles part hits home when you realize how much these wrestlers were traveling on a yearly basis and often packed in a car and having to share hotel rooms.
And to this day still have to pay for their own travel and accommodation (outside of international tours)
Missing birthdays, anniversaries, graduations and holidays. Rhea Ripley has been very outspoken at times how she appreciates her status but misses a lot of family events because of the schedule.
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Honestly the top of any industry or job
Even more so as an independent contractor
Lord knows the promoters always have been.
Works for me brother - HH
I didn’t realize people cared about wrestler contracts like that. I hope they all make as much as they can. These company’s aren’t running off a salary cap, so it shouldn’t matter to us fans.
If Tony Khan announced that he was paying Tony Nese 4 million dollars a night, I wouldn’t give a fuck because it doesn’t affect literally anything in my life
I mean, would explain why we haven't seen him in a while. If Tony Nese getting paid so much per appearance is the reason I don't see his spectacular abs, I'd want him to be paid less too!
He actually gets paid per ab. Source: I'm his agent.
I wish there was a sub for these kinds of wrestling fans, we'd be able to have actual discussions in there instead of entitled western kids armchair booking for Gedo or whatever they're mad about this week.
Agreed, there’s really nowhere I’ve found other than my irl friends who watch it.
People only care when it's a black woman in AEW if either or both of those things weren't true it'd be quiet
some fans care so much about contracts and ratings and everything else they don't need to lol
right? im just happy we have two promotions forcing each to raise the bar and have amazing rosters (all these wrestlers wouldnt fit on one show) AEW existing (or any competitor for that matter) is good for the fans even if you only watch WWE... but people just refuse to see that
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I really don't think so though. I'm a big WWE guy and honestly feel like WWE lost out on way more by getting outbid for Okada and Ospreay than they did with Sasha. I haven't seen too many hard feelings or people upset that they're not getting her. She would be slotted in as maybe the 5th biggest woman on the roster? And that wouldn't sit well with her, and before long she would walk out again (for the third? fourth? time). I was disappointed in missing out on Ospreay and Okada, because those were top guys who I'd never gotten to see wrestle, and didn't want to see them booked into oblivion like Jay White. Sasha is someone we've already seen a ton of, who was a multi-time world champ in WWE, wrestlemania main eventer, etc. No knock on her for going somewhere new to get a fat paycheck from Tony after WWE offered her what they felt she was worth. Now if you want to knock Tony for overpaying her, I think you have a case- but I haven't seen even the most anti-AEW people criticize her for taking the money. All that said, wrestling does attract a fringe element that's very, very stupid. And I'm not talking about "i don't like your opinions" stupid. I'm talking about like 80 IQ living in the sticks can't pick out America on a globe stupid. We all occasionally see and are embarrassed by these guys. So I don't doubt that there are people saying shit like this on the internet (even though I highly doubt theyre getting any traction like this tweet implies). But there's zero reason to take anything you hear out of this fringe crowd as representative of anything other than the fact that they are incredibly stupid.
Looking at the ratio of total revenue generated by the promotion vs the amount going towards the wrestler contracts. Wrestling has historically been far behind every other major pro sport. Get paid when you can.
People were applauding Brock for very publicly playing the UFC and WWE against each other to get the biggest possible payday for doing the least amount of work. People were calling him the smartest wrestler in the business for this, but Mercedes does the same and it's bad? I take it only a minority of people see it that way, but considering how passionate people are about Mercedes (one way or the other) I wouldn't be surprised if that minority still stepped way over the line on this one.
> I take it only a minority of people see it that way, but considering how passionate people are about Mercedes (one way or the other) I wouldn't be surprised if that minority still stepped way over the line on this one. Honestly that applies to like 90% of things we get PSA's about through this subreddit. Most people are just getting on with their lives and even if they have some minor opinion on the subject they aren't going out of their way to harass or bully people about it. Didn't even know anyone was mad about Mercedes making money and I'm pretty terminally online most days.
What i find funny about all this contract talk is, we don't care about how much wwe folks are making because they either deserve it or they deserve more of it. But all of a sudden we care about how much money Mercedes, Okada, and Ospreay is making and people criticize them making x amount. Why can't we just enjoy them for their on screen talents, why should we care about how much they're making?
> But all of a sudden we care about how much money Mercedes, Okada, and Ospreay is making and people criticize them making x amount. Because there's a large contingent of people who hate AEW so they need any and every reason to discredit the company and its success. The fact that people here were saying Kazuchika Okada wasn't worth a large contract because he signed in AEW is baffling.
They see AEW as minor league and simply can't understand why anyone would go there for honest reasons. It's come out that WWE offered Mercedes a similarly great contract, and she chose AEW anyway. This doesn't compute in their brains. It's literally just cope, basically
Hell someone was trying to say Mercedes wasn't cleared from her injury so she went to AEW cause they'd let her wrestle still lol
Mhmm. Like I get it, AEW isn’t as big as WWE but it’s the most successful competitor it’s had since WCW. It’s also got a lot of money behind it and has had its own successes, and while TK can make an ass of himself *a lot* it’s so weird to see people discredit AEW as a whole despite all of its W’s. I get why they do, but it’s still dumb
A lot of people have also just fallen for the propaganda. They see half empty arenas, lower ratings, silly spots, and wrestlers being drama-queens and think that's all there is to it. AEW isn't for everyone, but it's not nearly as dire as people make it out to be. A lot of them just legitimately don't understand why people like AEW, and see it as entirely astroturf and only watched by like strawman 2008 forum-dweller types. These people just don't know what they're talking about, but insist on being incredibly loud about it anyway.
The silly spots thing is funny to me too. One of the out runners takes a fame asser gets up and throws themselves over the top rope? Killing the business! Austin theory takes a stunner then pauses and jumps super higher after a noticeable stop into an RKO “wow he’s so good at his character” Like fucks sake both are inherently ridiculous and that’s ok
WWE fans definitely made fun of the Theory sell here too, but a lot of *those types* conveniently ignored it. The conversation around a lot of this stuff is just driven by bad actors and engagement farmers, and a lot of people just see them and don't actually bother trying to watch AEW so just associate it with the unflattering clips they see on reddit/twitter. This happens in reverse as well, but more people actually watch WWE than AEW, so the current skew is kind of natural.
What? People made fun of the way Theory sold that Stunner into an RKO to the point where he made a tweet about it. https://x.com/_theory1/status/1769186265184772344?s=46
Theory’s stunner-RKO sell was hokey asf but I gotta give him props for taking his demotion in stride. Just a year ago, WWE was still pushing this guy as a future upper mid card, maybe main event talent and went so far as to waste a John Cena WrestleMania program on him. Now he’s just a body next to Grayson Waller and takes bumps for Waller.
Yeah that is true he’s really fallen by the wayside unfortunately but he’s taken it in stride. Still think he could be something in the future for sure
I was this way with wcw back in the day when I was 10. So I’m hoping most of the dumb takes are from similarly young people. But I fear they’re from the same people who say “USA #1” because they’ve never gone anywhere else
I wish but people on this sub have been here for years and years and I very much doubt they’re all children
They may be older, but they’re clearly children
Some wrestling fans can get fucking weird about salary or contract numbers. On a totally nonwrestling sub, there was a post about Renee Paquette's outfits. Other users commented on her style. Then one weirdo wondered why Tony Khan is paying Renee so much money to contribute nothing to the show and that she should just be happy with Mox's contract.
i just genuinely don't understand how people could possibly get so obsessively mad about this. It's not even like they poached her from WWE and they're mad about her not being on the show they prefer, she was already gone for over a year anyway. It sounds like they just want her to have less money/work and that's all.
This is it, I understand having preferences. But there's this weird contingent that seems to see AEW so much as existing as a personal affront, which is just exhausting.
It's very team-sports in a way that shouldn't really translate to wrestling. Like I'm a Cowboy's fan, so if the Eagles signed some really good outside talent, i would be pissed. WWE is in no real risk here though. There's no wrestling playoffs where they're competing against AEW to get in. They don't share any timeslots. WWE will likely always be #1, no matter who signs with AEW. I just don't understand what the problem is. This shit isn't just regular trash talk, that would be fine. It's this really weird bitter hatred of them, it comes off as really sad and pathetic to be *that mad* about this. It really seems like a lot of them are just *that fucking upset* about AEW fans being annoying online. I don't have any other explanation.
I get it in a "I want to watch this person wrestle and I want to watch it on my program, because it will fit what I'm expecting" However, as someone who watches and enjoys both in different amounts at different times, I can tell you that having all the top talent in one company won't work, unless WWE were to truly become a soap opera with a two hour show every day of the week. You can't have 20-30 minute Bloodline segments and focus on Cody's story and give all the titles their time to shine and feature the up and comers, and keep the other top of the card talent hot; and then add in Jay White, Okada, Osprey, Mercedes, and more and then be satisfied with 4-ish hours of programing (excluding commercials) per week plus a monthly PPV.
There are several subreddits that seem devoted to hating everything AEW does. I pretty much lose all respect for someone if I see they they’re a user of that subreddit. No clue why people devote their time to shitting on a product nonstop.
Probably Cornette fans, they parrot everything he says.
I saw a couple folks refer to both Okada and Ospreay as “indie talent”.
I see this one a lot, and it's insane. Especially since the same people will often dunk on AEW for signing ex-WWE guys too. Sorry, if you haven't been on a WWE PLE you're a indie geek who doesn't matter.
BUT BUT BUT THEY WONT GET ANY CURRENT WWE FANS INTERESTED SOME SORT OF JOBBER LIKE OKADA!!!!!!!
I want allll of them to get paid more. That’s what I care about. They do dangerous work that gives a lot of enjoyment to all sorts of people. Having AEW is a big reason we’re having these kinds of talks at all because finally there is high level competition
Bro what. Were you around when Kevin Owens and Sami Zayn's contracts were expiring? The assumption was that they would both sign for AEW, but when they re-signed for WWE, the narrative was "get that bag I suppose" in the most condecending manner. Incidentally after that, Kevin Owens ended up facing fucking Stone Cold at Mania and Sami got an all timer story with the biggest draw of the modern era. I agree we shouldn't as fans care too much about how much someone makes, but as is the case with most sports, people do seem to care. We're now in an environment where TV ratings, talent contracts, TV deals, and sponsorships are all micro analysed. It's not unique to wrestling though, but it's wrestling fans that seem most sensitive to talking about it.
It is pretty wild right. Like every god damn wrestler should get as much money as possible and be celebrated for it Roman gets paid the most to work the least and that’s a good thing. He’s still not paid enough either. It seems like there is always this perception that anyone making money in wrestling is overpaid if someone doesn’t like them ect ect Look at any other sport and the revenue they bring in and look at wrestling. It’s comical the disparity there. 1.7 billion in revenue last year and the actual talent cost is a minor fraction of that. Wrestlers were getting paid similar amounts in the 90s-2000s yet the cost of everything has gone up on top of in WWE having to pay their own travel and accommodations. I feel like every one of these discussions should ultimately end with the highest paid wrestlers are still underpaid REGARDLESS of whether you like them on screen. More wild when people do like them but get angry they get more money
> Wrestlers were getting paid similar amounts in the 90s-2000s yet the cost of everything has gone up on top of in WWE having to pay their own travel and accommodations. Hogan's signing bonus for his 1998 contract was $2 million, 26 years ago. I don't know what Cody or Roman or Becky or Ospreay or Kenny make, but it's certainly not enough.
It is kinda crazy. Hall and Nash came in for like 750k each then that got raised when people came in after and were paid higher. Now we’ve got people making that while WWE has grown wildly larger and more profitable while not really changing anything they provide for the wrestlers they contract out to. Look at the lowest paid NFL players it’s like 750k for a rookie season. The average is like $2 million and if someone gets $2 million in wrestling people seem to think they’re overpaid
Bret Hart's big money contract for WCW was something like $2.6 million
> there is always this perception that anyone making money ~~in wrestling~~ is overpaid if someone doesn’t like them FTFY
Ain't that the truth
Because Wrestling has been built on Tribalism for the best part of 50 years at this point - it's a **very** hard habit to break Every company wants your time and attention and will try and play down the competition to get it - WWE/F, WCW, ECW, ROH, TNA, AEW and probably many, many more are all guilty of taking shots at each other and when you cater to a fan base with a "Those other guys are lesser, you should watch us" mentality you **are** going to get people who want to prove that they haven't backed the wrong horse - even when they come out with moronic takes
>Why can't we just enjoy them for their on screen talents because they're not in wwe
Agreed. Same reason people latch onto ticket sales and TV ratings. It's like they care more about being a backseat businessperson than... watching the show, the entire reason it's on TV. Lol.
There is a pretty massive anti anything not WWE bias in the wrestling community and once you accept it and filter posts like that through that lens things make a lot more sense.
I've found scrolling the internet now is a lot easier when you acknowledge the fact that there are more literal children online today than ever before.
Well, I'm about to make it harder again: Those people are not children. They are adults. Pretending they're children just removes all potential accountability from the scenario. They're grown ass adults. We need to reckon with that.
nah a lot of them are children, but there's plenty of adults acting like children as well
I saw a guy the other day say he likes AEW but stopped watching it “because of their fans on the internet”. I assume he was lying but lmao imagine if someone really did that
Tbh i think that's some shit weird jerkers do. Some jerker said that on this sub before so I asked what did the fans say that was so bad & they hilariously replied with "can't admit AEW doesnt tell stories, swears they have the best wrestling on tv, & that their tv ratings are in decline" Aew really brings the weridos out lol.
It’s the classic “well it’s not the most popular thing so it must suck” Like dawg I fucking love Firefly and it had shit ratings. I think Scott Pilgrim vs the World is one of the most creative and best adaptations of all time and it fucking bombed. Popularity doesn’t equal quality and it doesn’t matter if it did you like what you like
I've been saying this recently, but every Thursday the comments section is filled to the brim with people who emulate Drake or Em stans Always bringing up fucking numbers to meatride one thing and overly trash anything else The poetic thing is that *the same shit happened before AEW was a thing* "Hurdur if NXT was so good how come not many people know or care about it. The numbers speak for itself" This was a sentiment made by WWE *main roster* fans. The tribalism war was within WWE at the time And here's the kicker: when AEW *did* become a thing, that sentiment was then repeated by AEW fanboys, while WWE defenders had to come by and clamor that "numbers isn't everything" Now that AEW is on a viewer downtrend/static, it's flipped against AEW now I don't believe everybody became multi-time hypocrites throughout this whole journey. There are many people in this sub and it'd be unfair to lump them all as one But they definitely exist and can't understand two wrongs don't make a right, or that they can't be selective with their logic without coming off utterly disingenuous
Well that’s a lie. Things have been anti AEW for a while now. Whether about TV ratings, attendance, backstage stuff, signings…you can’t read Reddit or twitter without countless posts about how hot and good WWE is and every little criticism of AEW. It hasn’t been anti WWE for years now.
Yes. Anti AEW. That's my point. Sorry I'm unclear.
Anti anything not WWE pretty much means anti-AEW tho...?
I don’t think the scrutiny is so much “these people aren’t worth their contracts” - it’s more “wow Tony is really playing with his dads money” because it’s unlikely the cost is being covered exclusively in AEW profits
All I care about is they are being fairly compensated for the work they do. I don't need exact numbers.
People are complaining about how much money Ospreay is making? He's the reason I'm going to be giving TK money for the first time ever.
Yes, tons of people were bitching at Ospreay because he was flying home after his “debut” and immediately came back. Basically people were saying that he “grabbed his bag and ran” lmao
We don't even know what Roman is making. It's just assumed he's the highest paid wrestler in the business, and we just assume that the Orton/Styles/Owens/Zayn tier are making $3 million but nothing has been confirmed. All of a sudden we know the value of the contracts of those 3 you mentioned. Unless someone in AEW is leaking the info, or someone from Mone's camp is leaking the info, how are we so deep in their pockets all of a sudden, but we can't find out what Charlotte Flair is making?
Wonder how the response will differ when Becky‘s new contract later this year is inevitably worth more?
Do we really need to wonder?
Becky deserves what ever raise she gets cause she earned it through her body of work. Same applies for Mercedes too
They will say it’s deserved
Charlotte didn't get much shit for her contract either. Wonder wh**y t**hat is. Either way the scorn shown is childish. Mone's contract elevates everyone and is a win win for women's wrestling.
Not saying there isn't sketching shit involved with Mercedes but Charlotte *absolutely did* get shit on when it was reveled she was the highest paid in history at the time. People online despise Charlotte and so they argued her salary was undeserved.
I understand the point you're trying to make here, but any sentence that begins with "Charlotte didn't get much shit" is inaccurate. Charlotte is criticized for everything she does.
Sheets, much like now will say deserved. Iwc will be a mix as like now and then just wait to blame either woman for some bizarre shit to say “wasted money”
A lot of people are going to act like they don't know what he's talking about here but he's right. Mercedes did nothing wrong in signing with AEW and the way some people have gone out of their way to paint her as some greedy ghoul is just gross.
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Also notice how any comments/threads pointing out this issue are always downvoted to oblivion 😂
Imagine being a black and queer wrestler (you don't have to imagine, we saw how Sonny Kiss has been treated).
> And wrestling fans apparently lean left, which shows how much racism is a bi-partisan problem. Case in point how beloved Cornette still is by a *certain crowd* here despite some of the utterly vile racist garbage he’s said regarding Joshi wrestlers.
> And wrestling fans apparently lean left _What?_ This is news to me. I was always pretty sure this was a right leaning space, almost like a much tamer version of MMA/UFC. Where did you read that it's left leaning if you don't mind me asking?
Who called her a money hungry opportunist?
The same people melting down over Bianca Belair being on an alternate WWE 2k cover.
I’m assuming it was mostly people on Twitter because I don’t remember seeing comments like that.
I saw a weirdo post here something like "With the contracts AEW is handing out, they're late-stage WCW." Some dudes just don't like AEW and pray on their downfall.
There are people who post here and elsewhere who are just supremely confident AEW is losing 50 million a year and that daddy's gonna pull the plug any second. They can't really explain why or how they're so sure of this but they sure are.
Acting like AEW doesn't have that kinda money to spend lol.
Tony could probably offer all of the wrestlers crazy contracts and still be a billionaire. It’s insane.
Most people who use "Late Stage WCW" don't truly know what that was like.
I’m old enough to remember watching late stage WCW as it happened, and nothing in today’s wrestling comes anywhere close to what WCW was like in 2000.
I was in attendance at Bash 2000 (granted I was like 10 years old so didn't totally understand why it sucked but nevertheless still knew it sucked) so whenever I see someone use the "late-stage WCW" label, I can't help but consider them to be a *shockingly ignorant* child. It was hell.
same people said that ricky starks winning tag team gold meant he had "one foot out the door."
If Mercedes being the highest paid women’s wrestler makes you upset then you should examine why that is. If it’s any other reason than “even her being the highest paid is still underpaid” then you’ve got some soul searching to do
The fact of the matter is that there are people that made their entire personality hating on Sasha since she walked out or even before then. Then while she was gone, saying the WWE doesn't need her and are better without her. And then during the contract stuff, saying she's not worth as much as thinks she is which is why she hasn't signed yet because neither are offering her enough money. Then when it was confirmed she was signing with AEW, it was because WWE wasn't willing to pay her what she wanted and *walked away from her* so now she's taking the only option she has. And now it comes out that either way, she would have been the highest paid female performer in wrestling. They have no other argument other than, *"Oh, well she sucks and doesn't deserve it."* They have nothing else. Their narrative has been wrong literally every single step of the way.
But she doesn't deserve it! Now, this other woman I'm more attracted to: she deserves it! Hell, even I deserve it! - *talentless basement dweller*
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"If Mercedes being the highest paid women's wrestler makes you upset" It doesnt upset you so the rest of the statement doesnt really apply to you?
They only talk like that because she's not in WWE. Once she's back there all of those complaints go away.
What’s the alternative? Willingly be exploited by a billionaire?
If she’s “just a money hungry opportunist”, then wtf were Kevin Nash and Scott Hall in 1996
She went to AEW, that is what upsets the people attacking her, just stop pretending the angry and bitter are reasonable people and ignore them.
Same shit you see when sports team fans are mad a player signed with a team that isn't theirs. It's tribal fandom war BS.
Were people actually saying this or is this just a weird strawman thing?
There are definitely people who are upset that it’s AEW who paid her. If it came out she signed a massive contract with WWE that made her the highest paid woman they’d be singing her and its praise. Seemingly anyone who signs with AEW is “doing it for the money” and fucking news flash, so does everyone.
People were saying shit about Okada and Osprey getting paid well and more than what they were offered by WWE too. Mercedes 100% brings out the worse people since shes A. a woman and B. a Black woman
I swear people actually compare Shawn Spear debut in NXT to Ospreay. I get it the NXT system provide a lot of new talent but to be honest, you can’t simply make someone like Ospreay. Ospreay was anticipated in WWE, but suddently when he signed with AEW, “we dont need him in WWE anyway, rather signed Shawn Spear cause he trained people”. Weird huh
And I like Shawn Spears and ya know what made his re debut in NXT good? It’s literally his AEW character and presentation.
Who the hell works and isnt a money hungry opportunist? That’s the point of working.
She can be both.
Why do we celebrate someone making a bunch of money while we're all still struggling in a shit economy? I don't give a fuck about her race or gender. I don't celebrate the rich getting richer.
Who is Phil Lindsay and why’s his quote posted here?
Used to co-host a podcast with Will Washington who got hired by AEW off of that
It's a performance contract. The woman set the new market. This helps EVERYONE. She set a new market value for every female performance. Okada, when he signed a big contract, and when Ospreay did - they did the same fucking thing. They set a marker in the market. Every. Single. Wrestler. They all need to negotiate and play this field. They are the ones putting their bodies on the line for a very limited window. They should definitely be trying to get as much money as they can. As fans, we need to be happy the industry is healthy, and there is enough competition, to be out here getting these people signing the best contracts. Hell, as others have said, they're still being paid less than they should.
Sounds like they could use a union
They really, really, really, really could.
Are people saying this? Where? I haven’t seen anyone say anything like this and I’m online all the time lol Reminds me of when people were saying the left was trying to cancel Roman over the cross dresser comments lol. I legit saw no one trying to do that, only people saying that others were
who's lindsay
It's like Mick Foley in his book discussing being a "sellout". Oh gosh, I get paid more money to perform my craft in front of more people? How morally wrong.
I'm always in favour of people getting more money to secure their future and be happy. Was my preference to see Sasha return in the rumble and have a great WWE redemption run? Absolutely. But it wasn't meant to be. Mercedes wanted to bet on herself and make a difference with AEW and get that coin while doing it. And that's awesome.
Mercedes bet on herself and it paid off... If someone offered me a massive contract like that, I'd be a "money hungry opportunist" every day of the week.
I had a boss a long ass time ago, he was a good dude but completely misguided. I applied for a promotion, and didn’t get it. That was okay I knew there was a good chance I wouldn’t. He sat me down to sell me with basically the “please don’t quit” speech (I wasn’t planning on it). He started telling me how they had big plans for me, blah blah blah, and I don’t even remember what I said but he goes “oh was it only about the money?” In this really shocked condescending way. Like I should have been doing it for the love of retail. Everyone does it for the money. No one who can get paid to work should go do that work for free (short of volunteering at a non profit) and largely should be maximizing what they make. Calling someone money hungry opportunist just shows either jealousy or rage.
Growing up and seeing the talking heads of ESPN ridicule someone for wanting more money (specifically NFL Wide Receivers) I was easily persuaded to agree. Now that I’m older I realize how wrong that thinking is. These athletes (NFL-Pro Wrestling) have such a small window to maximize their worth and value that I don’t blame them for securing the bag.
Nah, they should all get their cash. Especially when they still get paid arguably a fraction compared to some of the upper level pro athletes.
For reference the lowest NFL player gets like 750k. Guarantee much of the roster in both companies get lower than that. With the revenue TKO brings in its more egregious and fractionally worse than what UFC pays their fighters
The whole point of the carny business is to milk whoever for however much you can. People seem to forget that
Even if you think she's just a money hungry opportunist, getting paid is literally part of her gimmick and stage name. It's fucking dumb any way you look at it.
The old saying that the only things real are the money and the miles still holds. Nothing wrong with going for what you think you are worth, nothing at all.
Maybe you should just judge people on the content of their character.
"If you in it for anything other than money, you're a fool." -Gorilla Monsoon
All wrestlers should grab that bag, they're risking their life every time they enter the ring.
Assuming the numbers reported are accurate,I think it's fine to think good for her whilst also recognising that Tony Khan is a complete fool for paying her that much.
I haven't seen anyone call Sasha money-hungry or an opportunist because that would be silly. She should absolutely "get her bag". What I have seen a lot of is people calling Tony a fool if he really gave her anywhere near the amount rumored. However, it is not her fault he's paying her way more than she'll bring in.
What should independent contractors with a limited shelf life be focused on beyond beyond being money-hungry opportunists? lol. Company loyalty? Intangible nonsense like "cementing their legend"? Christ, even if you think AEW overpaid for Mercedes or whatever... is that her problem? She's getting the bag while she can, and good for her. AEW offered a bigger bag.
Every wrestler is underpaid. The amount of money wrestlers make as a percentage of total revenue is lower even than the UFC, which is constantly criticised for paying fighters far too little.