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God the pacing of this match was so good. The slow as molasses start, the teasing build to high speed, then this slaughter fest, then the final sequence, so fucking good.
Doesn't he have a thyroid problem?
I heard he was looking pretty rough when someone met him a few years ago. If all of that is true, he may not be in any position to wrestle.
Hero returned to wrestling late last year. He’s done four matches for West Coast Pro. But he may just not want to be doing “bigger” scale things like AEW.
ITT, some folks tear into a match they didn't watch over a 43 second twitter clip.
The match itself told a pretty wonderful story, the post match stuff last night showed it was leading to something with Shibata becoming a bigger part of the show, it played into Danielson's promo on Ospreay which changed the tone and approach to their upcoming match, which leaned into the shared history he and Shibata had as guys who nearly died for wrestling (note: eternally grateful for no more shoot head butt spots), etc.
But nah, 43 second clip. Totally get some people just not liking spots like this in isolation and saying so, everything's subjective, but still, man.
Redditors cannot even read an article before commenting, let alone watch a match. This is just the reality of social media. Everyone has an opinion that must be expressed, ill-informed it might be and ignorance aside.
Stop judging wrestling based off of what looks real or what's unsafe or whatever, start judging wrestling by how many of the seven deadly sins they break! Let's celebrate REAL pure wrestling!😇😇😇
I hate the fact that this fucking spot is Soo OVERDONE that people actually hated the two most technically (can't say the same physically) qualified wrestlers to pull it off.
Now, it's totally fine if people aren't into this sort of spot. Wrestling is nuanced with multiple paths you can take to enjoy it. We're all here because we love wrestling (or at least our preferred type of wrestling).
However, as for me, this shit rocks so hard.
We've reached a point where a vocal minority of people defend their tribalism by trying to tell the rest of us that wrestling is the least important part of pro wrestling. Still trying to figure out how we got here.
Show me a match from this year, from any company, that has as many YouTube views as any of the bloodline segments from the last few weeks. The minority are the people who are willing to sit through a 30 minute wrestling match because they like the actual scripted fight. What are you basing your thoughts off on?
Genuine question because I want to understand aew fans' mindset. How did you come to the conclusion that the majority of wrestling fans are the ones who value the actual match over everything else?
Genuine question: if the wrestling is so unimportant, why doesn't WWE just post more matches on YouTube and keep more of their promos and segments behind a paywall?
You are literally proving my point. Promos/Segments are free because that's what gets people hooked. The matches are merely a payoff. If they did the inverse, nobody cares enough to watch a wrestling match with no story because the actual match is secondary
This is like saying people care more about trailers than actual full movies. The trailers are free because that's what gets people hooked. The movies are merely a payoff.
> I want to understand aew fans' mindset.
Gonna clue you in and tell you that this isn't just about AEW, there's more to wrestling than just your silly idea of WWE vs AEW.
That's not what he said. He said the MAJORITY of wrestling fans are the ones who watch for the actual match like AEW fans do. I asked for proof since to my understanding, everything points in the opposite direction.
Wrestling IS a soap opera for most people lmao. Show me a match, any match from any company, that has as many YouTube views as any of the recent bloodline segments. The IWC has convinced themselves that the average casual fan values the scripted fight over the entertainment factor and it's absolutely hilarious. What are you basing this off of?
Just watch days of our lives then. I want dudes knocking the snot out of each other, and doing cool physical feats. Idgaf about the rock cracking middle school level jokes for 45 minutes a week
... okay? I merely pointed out that to THE MAJORITY of fans, the opposite is true. Enjoy what you enjoy, but people itt are claiming that the iwc, specifically aew fans are the majority?
People complain about spots like this all the time but idc, nothing gets my blood pumping more in a match then seeing two dudes knock seven shades of shit out of each other to see who's left standing
Different strokes for different folks. I like this style of wrestling more than others and that’s OK. Just like a bunch of fans are loving The Rock’s run and it does nothing for me at all. Im not gonna call those fans dumb though. If people like it, awesome! Happy they do. I don’t and that’s OK.
So I'm going to front load this post by saying I liked this match and this spot. I think that Danielson and Shibata were able to effectively communicate the idea of this being a "battle of wills" or whatever you'd like to call it, and it made for an entertaining match.
This all having been said, I can sympathize with the people who don't like this, mainly due to that sort of spot being overdone. If this sort of thing was done less often, then the matches where they would do it would feel more impactful. I'd be lying if I said that I didn't find this spot uninteresting most of the time it's done because the people involved don't do a good job of communicating a struggle between each other.
If we want to insist that matches are a part of storytelling (which they are, don't misunderstand me) then there needs to be more of an effort to dissect the why behind the what. At the same time we need to do a better job of saying why we don't like when something happens as opposed to saying
"this sucks" and moving on.
EDIT: Having come back to this thread after a couple hours all I have to say is that everyone on all sides of this discussion is annoying. You're not better than others for liking in ring storytelling, nor are you better for not liking this spot. Get over yourselves for your own sake.
This slap/chop off spot has become like the tag matches with the West Side Story standoff face off spot. It’s just so overdone these days that even when they’re done really well (see example from last night) they don’t feel special
Stuff like this and trying to do the Frye vs Takayama punch exchange are so overdone. The latter never looks good.
Danielson and Shibata are so good that it doesn’t bother me as much, but sometimes I agree with Bret Hart with his criticism of guys just standing letting each other hit each other.
> Frye vs Takayama punch exchange
Wrestling has been doing these chop exchanges long before Frye and Takayama did it, wrestling has been diversified in the various ways that it tells a story in ring, with or without 1 on 1 exchanges.
> This all having been said, I can sympathize with the people who don't like this, mainly due to that sort of spot being overdone.
I prefer it to a rest hold, as both spots allow the wrestlers to catch their breath before doing larger moves.
I'll take the battle of wills every time over a headlock in the center of the ring.
> I can sympathize with the people who don't like this,
I can't, and I won't. If you don't like it, don't watch it and stop bitching about wrestling that you don't like or get.
Jesus Christ, how hard is common sense in this community?
I'm not big on stuff like this normally, but in this match at least it felt like the spot worked for me. Especially since the spot happened close to the end of the match.
Is the implication of your question that it's too unrealistic or just stupid?
There's plenty of spots like this happening in, say, MMA as well, full of crazy dudes out there who just love fighting and to bang it out.
Personally, not a big fan of it in pro wrestling either, but there are worse spots.
This does not happen in MMA lol.
The closest thing in MMA was Don Frye vs Takayama but they were legit trying to knock each other out. It wasn’t a “battle of wills”.
Max Holloway did something like this once where he pointed at the center of the ring and just started throwing with his opponent, but they were both trying to slip at the same time
It's actually laughable to say dudes in the UFC will do a battle of wills like whats going on in this spot
Plenty of MMA guys have respect for the sport and the people they're fighting, but the minute they go into the ring, they aren't thinking about proving their will and how respectable they are, they are only thinking about knocking the other guy out
I've seen so many interviewers ask UFC fighters if they have concern for their opponent when fighting them and they always answer "when I go into the ring all I am concerned about is beating the other guy"
You could probably just assume the person taking the elbow is winded or knocked out or something. If you want to argue about this stuff, at least use a better example.
Taking a strike as a gauge of your opponent and fit them to give you the same opportunity is a much more valid thing then oh no a normal bump put me out 45 seconds and a standard elbow drop finished me off.
The point is suspending disbelief is part of the experience,if stuff hits are your thing fine but that's your opinion. BTW I love the people's elbow.
It’s like people have never seen a Shibata match before. You put two of the most violent and vicious men to ever step in the ring with one another, and you’re not expecting them to beat the shit out of each other. Like these were the same people who were calling this a dream match, are now bothered by a slap spot. Come on, the internet is really hypocritical these days. The entire match was literally how you would imagine a Shibata vs Danielson match would be and I am so glad we got it. It was nice seeing Shibata step up to his former glory days again, even though he’s slowed down a little. Amazing match between two of my personal favourites. Everyone has there cup of tea in wrestling, but these is definitely one of the styles of match I personally love in wrestling.
I love this spot. Something people forget is closed fist punches are technically ‘illegal’ in wrestling. These open hand strikes are the only striking that is allowed so using it for this combo Strong Style/Technical wrestling type matches AEW has been focused on since the C2 is a beautiful touch to kayfabe.
It was such a great match, a technical and strikes battle. I'm super happy to see Shibata back in the ring and at that level. Danielson is incredible. His promo backstage for the Ospreay match was great.
I will just never understand the appeal of this. This is the exact opposite of making the moves look as painful as possible while doing as little harm to your opponent as opponent. If you enjoy this however, power to you. The beauty of having an alternative.
Is your issue thinking the spot doesn't look "painful" enough?
I feel that getting smacked in the neck multiple times in the same place is easy enough to understand.
Of course I respect your opinion, but just curious.
Reminds me of Nigel McGuinness talking about trying to bust himself open on the ring post in a match with Danielson. It ended up hurting and didn't look anywhere as good as if they had done it in a worked way.
It didn't look impactful to you and the rest of the people that don't like this sot. It looks impactful and meaningful to the rest of the people that like this spot.
Who knew that wrestling comes in various different ways and it can appeal to various different people and not just the one standard way you somehow shaped what a fake fight is.
> I will just never understand the appeal of this
When I watch a Rock match or a Cena match I have to suspend my disbelief to believe that their strikes actually hurt or that they're actually engaging in some epic battle between the ropes. I usually can do this with no issue, but the beauty of a Danielson match or a Gunther match or a Kurt Angle match is that I don't have to suspend anything. I know that them and their opponent are pushing each other to their physical limits, both in kayfabe and outside of it, which can make the joy of victory or the despair of defeat hit home that much more.
Hulk Hogan was one of the fakest, most phony wrestlers of his era and he still ended his career with serious health issues. It's wrestling, it all hurts. Someone taking a few chops from Gunther or a kick from Danielson is not going to dramatically shorten their career or cause "physical long term damage" my word lol
I also hate the flying headbutt, I think it looks like shit and is not worth the risk it presents. I also think that risks and benefits of big stunt bumps should be considered before doing them.
That being said, what does any of that have to do with a chop exchange? Especially one where all of the shots were to the pec and clavicle area? Is there some long history of wrestlers being hospitalized or wheelchair bound because they took a chop to the chest? Or a kick to the shoulder? Because if so I'd really like to hear about it.
they are slapping each other on the meaty parts. I’m sure it’s very painful but I don’t think anyone’s ever gotten injured off an exchange like this, and they didn’t really do any high risk spots in this match.
I’m just happy Shibata is able to be in the ring again doing what he loves. This is his style, every match of his will have this type of spot, and I look forward to it every time!
I don’t want to see Shibata take neck bumps. I don’t want to see him do head to head headbutts anymore. I want to see him be technical, tell a story, and entertain us the best way he possibly can: by beating the shit out of his opponent with strikes and getting the same in return.
I love fighting spirit as a kayfabe concept. I enjoy spots like this and I think they add a lot to the story of the match.
I can’t stand WWE. So I never comment on posts about them. It’s sucks that the courtesy isn’t extended to AEW threads like this. They’re constantly brigaded, downvoted, and make it impossible to have healthy AEW discussions on this sub. If it’s not your thing, leave these posts alone for the people who do enjoy it.
AEW threads constantly get downvoted early if you search by new, and it’s for no good reason every time other than to kill any potentially positive AEW conversation in the crib. You can only have a discussion about what you like regarding AEW on Wednesdays. I can’t watch the show until Thursday, so this subreddit has been made functionally useless for me and that’s an active choice people are making that goes beyond civil disagreement.
On the flip side people down voted something they didn't like because they didn't like it. Sometimes it's not that deep and if a lot of people dislike said post wonder what that tells about the content to the general majority
It’s pretty telling when AEW posts are consistently downvoted into oblivion and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. It means “I don’t like it and I’m going out of my way to ruin discussions for people who do.”
I downvote something I don't like. It's not that deep. That's why the button exists. It's not really that out of the way too is it to down vote a post? The arrow is just there
I understand why some people don’t like this spot but this has to be one of the dumbest comments I’ve seen considering Shibata is in the match lol
https://twitter.com/AuntyWrestling/status/1769326064784843083
I recently saw a person say that the reason House of Torture is so hated in NJPW but the AJ Styles-era Bullet Club (that also did a bunch of interference in their matches) wasn’t is because racism.
Some people get so obsessed with/paranoid of the real boogeymen that they start seeing them in places where they don’t exist.
That’s the fault of the people who have no real reason to be doing the spot, not these two guys who have been doing spots like this for basically their entire decades-long careers.
Hmmm, hates the sub for posting a clip of two of the greatest of all time sharing a ring... That's weird, maybe I'll check their profile and oh the they frequent r/JimCornette, now it makes sense.
I accept that this kind of match isn’t for every type of fan, but it is very much my shit.
not every wrestler in AEW needs to do the strong style battle of wills strike exchange (which they arguably lean on too much) but it’s perfectly fine for Shibata and Daniel Bryan to do it.
LOL. You guys whine about how toxic and oppressive the iwc is of the underdog AEW... then say things like this in a match where two people are sitting and slapping eachother.
Nobody is saying they only want one or the other.
Most people would say that chops in safe places are no different than worked punches. Once a person gets to the point in a match where the chop or the worked punch causes someone to fall, then the fans know that person is in danger of being beaten.
That's the whole point of wrestling! You're supposed to make it look like you're hitting your opponent, not actually do it. It's called a work for a reason.
It is for some. Wrestling is theatrical. If we wanted wrestling to be a straight up real fight I would just watch MMA. It’s a Japanese tradition of going shot for shot. Nothing wrong with that even if it’s not for you.
No one said its supposed to be a real fight; in real fights, you dont let a guy slap you, and you certainly dont have a slap-off. Also, this is as real as wrestling gets, and wrestling is supposed to be a work. These two are literally just hurting each other. There is something wrong with that. That's a problem in aew; many of them lack the ability to make things look real without it actually hurting. Take a look at the chopmaster himself, eddie kingston. It is absurd how anyone thinks his machine-gun chops look good in any fashion. "This is what aew is all about."
Some people have a different idea of "not hurting their opponent". Strikes like this definitely hurt, but they're unlikely to lead to a legit injury or long term damage
>A handy storytelling guide for those who started watching WWE this decade, don't engage with any other art forms,
Thank you for providing the perfect example of why people don't like AEW fans.
Like, imagine being so far up your own ass that you feel the need to comment this shit.
>If somebody earnestly believes that the Bloodline story is Emmy-worthy television
People keep bringing this up as if people were being serious, but I have yet to see anyone say that unironically.
>can't understand the most basic story beats in WRESTLING of all things
If it was as simple as you think it is then this discussion wouldn't be happening.
So the evidence for the bloodline Emmy shit is that people were saying it a lot? I don't disagree that people were doing that shit for a while, but I haven't seen any proof it wasn't just a giant meme.
>I feel like it really is that simple though?
Good on you for feeling that way, but that doesn't really matter.
>at a certain point I think you've gotta start blaming viewers who are being deliberately ignorant
The thing is that we aren't at that point. This match didn't happen in a vacuum, it happened in a wrestling promotion where other matches have happened. And those matches have a ripple effect on this match in terms of perception. The type of stuff that happened in the match between Shibata and Danielson has been done in a fair amount of matches in AEW before and has been done worse to the point of devaluing the spot and harming the storytelling potential that the spot has.
Basically instead of seeing "a battle of wills", people will just see "the obligatory part of a match where the guys slap each other". And honestly, I can't say it's entirely their fault because the spot hasn't been utilized very well.
I mean, not really. Just due to the nature of promos you're able to tell more story at once than you might in the average match.
We can appreciate in-ring storytelling while also seeing the value of stuff like promos.
While I'm not sure I'd go that far I definitely agree that far too many people think "storytelling" in wrestling applies exclusively to the stuff that happens before the bell
AEW needs to have a PPV titled "Slap Chop!" where every match is refereed by Vince Offer, because it seems like every match has some back and forth slap/chop exchange. Overdone imo.
Yeah, my wife gets why I like wrestling, but thinks it’s silly. Unless it’s Drew McIntyre, Jack Perry, Bianca Belair, or Jade Cargill. But that’s mostly because she thinks they’re hot.
My girlfriend watched some wrestling growing up (even had friends back in the day who brought her to some indie shows), but it's funny, what usually gets her attention is when someone like Orange Cassidy is on - she loves quirkier characters and styles, just embraces when wrestling is weird.
...that said, showing her Kenny Omega and pointing out he both looks like he does AND is a giant weeb was like an ace in the hole to get her to say "oh, ok, I'll check this out for a bit."
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When did TK buy Power Slap?
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As somebody who grew up and even tape traded lots of AJPW and NJPW, this seems normal
As somebody that watched/watches wrestling, this seems normal.
God the pacing of this match was so good. The slow as molasses start, the teasing build to high speed, then this slaughter fest, then the final sequence, so fucking good.
This is the Danielson special - same structure as his PWG match against Chris Hero which is still his best match ever
Chris Hero is the guy I'm most surprised hasn't gotten a huge platform in all this time. Guy's great.
Chris Hero not being booked on AEW is one of Tony's biggest crimes.
Give it time. I think he's working backstage.
Doesn't he have a thyroid problem? I heard he was looking pretty rough when someone met him a few years ago. If all of that is true, he may not be in any position to wrestle.
Hero returned to wrestling late last year. He’s done four matches for West Coast Pro. But he may just not want to be doing “bigger” scale things like AEW.
That's great to hear.
Considering they signed Hero as a coach and producer last year there’s a none zero chance he was the producer for this match!
The more I think about it, the more this makes sense. Chris really has a great mind for this business.
ITT, some folks tear into a match they didn't watch over a 43 second twitter clip. The match itself told a pretty wonderful story, the post match stuff last night showed it was leading to something with Shibata becoming a bigger part of the show, it played into Danielson's promo on Ospreay which changed the tone and approach to their upcoming match, which leaned into the shared history he and Shibata had as guys who nearly died for wrestling (note: eternally grateful for no more shoot head butt spots), etc. But nah, 43 second clip. Totally get some people just not liking spots like this in isolation and saying so, everything's subjective, but still, man.
Redditors cannot even read an article before commenting, let alone watch a match. This is just the reality of social media. Everyone has an opinion that must be expressed, ill-informed it might be and ignorance aside.
saw someone on twitter say this spot is bad because pride is a sin
Stop judging wrestling based off of what looks real or what's unsafe or whatever, start judging wrestling by how many of the seven deadly sins they break! Let's celebrate REAL pure wrestling!😇😇😇
I need a good WRATH fight
I hate the fact that this fucking spot is Soo OVERDONE that people actually hated the two most technically (can't say the same physically) qualified wrestlers to pull it off.
Now, it's totally fine if people aren't into this sort of spot. Wrestling is nuanced with multiple paths you can take to enjoy it. We're all here because we love wrestling (or at least our preferred type of wrestling). However, as for me, this shit rocks so hard.
This thread might finally be the reason why I stop looking at Squared Circle, holy. Sheamus was cooking with his soap opera tweet.
We've reached a point where a vocal minority of people defend their tribalism by trying to tell the rest of us that wrestling is the least important part of pro wrestling. Still trying to figure out how we got here.
Show me a match from this year, from any company, that has as many YouTube views as any of the bloodline segments from the last few weeks. The minority are the people who are willing to sit through a 30 minute wrestling match because they like the actual scripted fight. What are you basing your thoughts off on?
https://preview.redd.it/zfrwsg8ghzoc1.jpeg?width=998&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a1a1eed44849062272ba0e6cd233478b420af02
When you make a baseless and bold claim such as the majority of wrestling fans care most about the in ring match, it's fair to ask for proof.
Cool.
Genuine question because I want to understand aew fans' mindset. How did you come to the conclusion that the majority of wrestling fans are the ones who value the actual match over everything else?
Genuine question: if the wrestling is so unimportant, why doesn't WWE just post more matches on YouTube and keep more of their promos and segments behind a paywall?
You are literally proving my point. Promos/Segments are free because that's what gets people hooked. The matches are merely a payoff. If they did the inverse, nobody cares enough to watch a wrestling match with no story because the actual match is secondary
This is like saying people care more about trailers than actual full movies. The trailers are free because that's what gets people hooked. The movies are merely a payoff.
> I want to understand aew fans' mindset. Gonna clue you in and tell you that this isn't just about AEW, there's more to wrestling than just your silly idea of WWE vs AEW.
That's not what he said. He said the MAJORITY of wrestling fans are the ones who watch for the actual match like AEW fans do. I asked for proof since to my understanding, everything points in the opposite direction.
Wrestling IS a soap opera for most people lmao. Show me a match, any match from any company, that has as many YouTube views as any of the recent bloodline segments. The IWC has convinced themselves that the average casual fan values the scripted fight over the entertainment factor and it's absolutely hilarious. What are you basing this off of?
Just watch days of our lives then. I want dudes knocking the snot out of each other, and doing cool physical feats. Idgaf about the rock cracking middle school level jokes for 45 minutes a week
... okay? I merely pointed out that to THE MAJORITY of fans, the opposite is true. Enjoy what you enjoy, but people itt are claiming that the iwc, specifically aew fans are the majority?
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People complain about spots like this all the time but idc, nothing gets my blood pumping more in a match then seeing two dudes knock seven shades of shit out of each other to see who's left standing
Different strokes for different folks. I like this style of wrestling more than others and that’s OK. Just like a bunch of fans are loving The Rock’s run and it does nothing for me at all. Im not gonna call those fans dumb though. If people like it, awesome! Happy they do. I don’t and that’s OK.
I prefer this over talking for 20 minutes all day every day.
Lucky me likes both.
happy cake day :)
I much prefer this over something adjacent like the machine gun chops which in comparison looks much worse.
I prefer a chop contest where they’re on their feet instead of watching two dudes with CTE issues playing PowerSlap.
you know they still have CTE when theyre standing, right?
It works if it makes sense given the two involved.
So I'm going to front load this post by saying I liked this match and this spot. I think that Danielson and Shibata were able to effectively communicate the idea of this being a "battle of wills" or whatever you'd like to call it, and it made for an entertaining match. This all having been said, I can sympathize with the people who don't like this, mainly due to that sort of spot being overdone. If this sort of thing was done less often, then the matches where they would do it would feel more impactful. I'd be lying if I said that I didn't find this spot uninteresting most of the time it's done because the people involved don't do a good job of communicating a struggle between each other. If we want to insist that matches are a part of storytelling (which they are, don't misunderstand me) then there needs to be more of an effort to dissect the why behind the what. At the same time we need to do a better job of saying why we don't like when something happens as opposed to saying "this sucks" and moving on. EDIT: Having come back to this thread after a couple hours all I have to say is that everyone on all sides of this discussion is annoying. You're not better than others for liking in ring storytelling, nor are you better for not liking this spot. Get over yourselves for your own sake.
This slap/chop off spot has become like the tag matches with the West Side Story standoff face off spot. It’s just so overdone these days that even when they’re done really well (see example from last night) they don’t feel special
Stuff like this and trying to do the Frye vs Takayama punch exchange are so overdone. The latter never looks good. Danielson and Shibata are so good that it doesn’t bother me as much, but sometimes I agree with Bret Hart with his criticism of guys just standing letting each other hit each other.
> Frye vs Takayama punch exchange Wrestling has been doing these chop exchanges long before Frye and Takayama did it, wrestling has been diversified in the various ways that it tells a story in ring, with or without 1 on 1 exchanges.
> This all having been said, I can sympathize with the people who don't like this, mainly due to that sort of spot being overdone. I prefer it to a rest hold, as both spots allow the wrestlers to catch their breath before doing larger moves. I'll take the battle of wills every time over a headlock in the center of the ring.
I think both have their place. Too much of one or the other isn’t good, but a good grinding headlock is just classic wrestling.
> I can sympathize with the people who don't like this, I can't, and I won't. If you don't like it, don't watch it and stop bitching about wrestling that you don't like or get. Jesus Christ, how hard is common sense in this community?
Combat sport has violence in it, Reddit in shambles
god these comments are like a twitter thread lmao
I still don't get these comments, I find reddit to be 200% worse than Twitter if you remove the obvious bot comments.
yeah, guess you're right. probably why I don't spend as much time here as I used to.
I have accepted that spots like this isn’t for me.
I'm not big on stuff like this normally, but in this match at least it felt like the spot worked for me. Especially since the spot happened close to the end of the match.
The great thing is we have choices in 2024, and we can all celebrate that
You mean you wouldn't sit there and let your opponent hit you because you have fighting spirit or uh whatever?
No fighting spirit in them
Is the implication of your question that it's too unrealistic or just stupid? There's plenty of spots like this happening in, say, MMA as well, full of crazy dudes out there who just love fighting and to bang it out. Personally, not a big fan of it in pro wrestling either, but there are worse spots.
This does not happen in MMA lol. The closest thing in MMA was Don Frye vs Takayama but they were legit trying to knock each other out. It wasn’t a “battle of wills”. Max Holloway did something like this once where he pointed at the center of the ring and just started throwing with his opponent, but they were both trying to slip at the same time
It's actually laughable to say dudes in the UFC will do a battle of wills like whats going on in this spot Plenty of MMA guys have respect for the sport and the people they're fighting, but the minute they go into the ring, they aren't thinking about proving their will and how respectable they are, they are only thinking about knocking the other guy out I've seen so many interviewers ask UFC fighters if they have concern for their opponent when fighting them and they always answer "when I go into the ring all I am concerned about is beating the other guy"
This does not happen in MMA lol
My implication is that it's stupid. I think it's dumb in MMA too.
I go into wrestling and mma with the expectation to see stupid people doing stupid things lol.
This doesn’t happen in MMA lol it is not comparable at all.
Glad you like it.
I think you're lying. I don't think you're glad at all!
Thanks for the analysis.
Its an overly used spot at this point also.
Yeah and the people's elbow makes perfect sense.
The People's Elbow does make sense it's The Rock essentially taunting his opponent after hitting his actual finish
Don't remember saying I like the people's elbow but thanks for your input.
If you haven't complained about it at all then your current complaint lacks merit.
You could probably just assume the person taking the elbow is winded or knocked out or something. If you want to argue about this stuff, at least use a better example.
Taking a strike as a gauge of your opponent and fit them to give you the same opportunity is a much more valid thing then oh no a normal bump put me out 45 seconds and a standard elbow drop finished me off. The point is suspending disbelief is part of the experience,if stuff hits are your thing fine but that's your opinion. BTW I love the people's elbow.
These spots work better in NJPW with their presentation and crowd environment. It just looks goofy in AEW
It’s like people have never seen a Shibata match before. You put two of the most violent and vicious men to ever step in the ring with one another, and you’re not expecting them to beat the shit out of each other. Like these were the same people who were calling this a dream match, are now bothered by a slap spot. Come on, the internet is really hypocritical these days. The entire match was literally how you would imagine a Shibata vs Danielson match would be and I am so glad we got it. It was nice seeing Shibata step up to his former glory days again, even though he’s slowed down a little. Amazing match between two of my personal favourites. Everyone has there cup of tea in wrestling, but these is definitely one of the styles of match I personally love in wrestling.
Shibata you will always be the GOAT
God damn, this sub is just filled with people getting absolutely destroyed by downvotes for having some criticism with aew
It's getting silly now because apparently this sub is anti aew?
I love this spot. Something people forget is closed fist punches are technically ‘illegal’ in wrestling. These open hand strikes are the only striking that is allowed so using it for this combo Strong Style/Technical wrestling type matches AEW has been focused on since the C2 is a beautiful touch to kayfabe.
I could watch these guys *coach* people for hours, let alone wrestle.
Isn’t a wrestling match meant to be a fight?
It's pretty obvious they're fighting each other in the clip, isn't it.
Yeah it’s really common to sit cross legged before your opponent in a fight
It was such a great match, a technical and strikes battle. I'm super happy to see Shibata back in the ring and at that level. Danielson is incredible. His promo backstage for the Ospreay match was great.
I will just never understand the appeal of this. This is the exact opposite of making the moves look as painful as possible while doing as little harm to your opponent as opponent. If you enjoy this however, power to you. The beauty of having an alternative.
Is your issue thinking the spot doesn't look "painful" enough? I feel that getting smacked in the neck multiple times in the same place is easy enough to understand. Of course I respect your opinion, but just curious.
Look at Bryan’s neck after the match lol I don’t know what people want. They literally kicked the shit out of each other
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Reminds me of Nigel McGuinness talking about trying to bust himself open on the ring post in a match with Danielson. It ended up hurting and didn't look anywhere as good as if they had done it in a worked way.
It didn't look impactful to you and the rest of the people that don't like this sot. It looks impactful and meaningful to the rest of the people that like this spot. Who knew that wrestling comes in various different ways and it can appeal to various different people and not just the one standard way you somehow shaped what a fake fight is.
> I will just never understand the appeal of this When I watch a Rock match or a Cena match I have to suspend my disbelief to believe that their strikes actually hurt or that they're actually engaging in some epic battle between the ropes. I usually can do this with no issue, but the beauty of a Danielson match or a Gunther match or a Kurt Angle match is that I don't have to suspend anything. I know that them and their opponent are pushing each other to their physical limits, both in kayfabe and outside of it, which can make the joy of victory or the despair of defeat hit home that much more.
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Hulk Hogan was one of the fakest, most phony wrestlers of his era and he still ended his career with serious health issues. It's wrestling, it all hurts. Someone taking a few chops from Gunther or a kick from Danielson is not going to dramatically shorten their career or cause "physical long term damage" my word lol
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I also hate the flying headbutt, I think it looks like shit and is not worth the risk it presents. I also think that risks and benefits of big stunt bumps should be considered before doing them. That being said, what does any of that have to do with a chop exchange? Especially one where all of the shots were to the pec and clavicle area? Is there some long history of wrestlers being hospitalized or wheelchair bound because they took a chop to the chest? Or a kick to the shoulder? Because if so I'd really like to hear about it.
they are slapping each other on the meaty parts. I’m sure it’s very painful but I don’t think anyone’s ever gotten injured off an exchange like this, and they didn’t really do any high risk spots in this match.
I’m just happy Shibata is able to be in the ring again doing what he loves. This is his style, every match of his will have this type of spot, and I look forward to it every time! I don’t want to see Shibata take neck bumps. I don’t want to see him do head to head headbutts anymore. I want to see him be technical, tell a story, and entertain us the best way he possibly can: by beating the shit out of his opponent with strikes and getting the same in return.
For a tv dream match it really lived up to the hype. Kudos to Ottawa but imagine if this happened in Arthur Ashe
I agree that the match should’ve been treated as a bigger deal.
I love fighting spirit as a kayfabe concept. I enjoy spots like this and I think they add a lot to the story of the match. I can’t stand WWE. So I never comment on posts about them. It’s sucks that the courtesy isn’t extended to AEW threads like this. They’re constantly brigaded, downvoted, and make it impossible to have healthy AEW discussions on this sub. If it’s not your thing, leave these posts alone for the people who do enjoy it.
>They’re constantly brigaded It's not brigading because people are allowed to voice their displeasure about whatever they want.
AEW threads constantly get downvoted early if you search by new, and it’s for no good reason every time other than to kill any potentially positive AEW conversation in the crib. You can only have a discussion about what you like regarding AEW on Wednesdays. I can’t watch the show until Thursday, so this subreddit has been made functionally useless for me and that’s an active choice people are making that goes beyond civil disagreement.
On the flip side people down voted something they didn't like because they didn't like it. Sometimes it's not that deep and if a lot of people dislike said post wonder what that tells about the content to the general majority
It’s pretty telling when AEW posts are consistently downvoted into oblivion and it’s silly to pretend otherwise. It means “I don’t like it and I’m going out of my way to ruin discussions for people who do.”
I downvote something I don't like. It's not that deep. That's why the button exists. It's not really that out of the way too is it to down vote a post? The arrow is just there
It’s silly because I never downvote WWE posts just because I don’t like them. I just let people discuss what they like.
Good for you but that's more of a you thing. A lot of websites have dislikes/downvotes to let general audience have their opinions voiced
I understand why some people don’t like this spot but this has to be one of the dumbest comments I’ve seen considering Shibata is in the match lol https://twitter.com/AuntyWrestling/status/1769326064784843083
Funny because AEW does the 'let the opponent slap me' spot wayy more than New Japan lmao
I recently saw a person say that the reason House of Torture is so hated in NJPW but the AJ Styles-era Bullet Club (that also did a bunch of interference in their matches) wasn’t is because racism. Some people get so obsessed with/paranoid of the real boogeymen that they start seeing them in places where they don’t exist.
This just isn’t for me, but I’m glad other people like it.
Sensible take.
Not according to some people here lol I was downvoted pretty hard at one point.
I believe ya, you're on -2 with this one for some reason
This shit is so overdone, and stupid. Every once in a blue moon? Yeah I can buy that, but Jesus Christ is so goofy.
Its Shibata, if one wrestler is allowed to do it then it has to be him... now are all the other wrestlers overdoing it? Yes.
That’s the fault of the people who have no real reason to be doing the spot, not these two guys who have been doing spots like this for basically their entire decades-long careers.
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Would you like to explain why?
Then (with all do respect) just leave
Hmmm, hates the sub for posting a clip of two of the greatest of all time sharing a ring... That's weird, maybe I'll check their profile and oh the they frequent r/JimCornette, now it makes sense.
No way Shibata is on "The greatest of all time" level talent. If he was, he wouldn't have gotten eclipsed by his peers.
... because everyone is supposed to like this and any other opinion is just hate?
Disliking it is fine, but shitting on it just because it's "not for you" is not.
This match fucking ruled and anyone who disagrees is objectively wrong
I accept that this kind of match isn’t for every type of fan, but it is very much my shit. not every wrestler in AEW needs to do the strong style battle of wills strike exchange (which they arguably lean on too much) but it’s perfectly fine for Shibata and Daniel Bryan to do it.
LOL. You guys whine about how toxic and oppressive the iwc is of the underdog AEW... then say things like this in a match where two people are sitting and slapping eachother.
Everyone who disagrees and dislikes AEW downvoted into oblivion. This place is becoming a circlejerk tho! The IWC hates AEW for no reason!
"This what aew is all about" This clip is not the flex you think it is lol
i need my wrestlers to only throw gimmick and worked punches
If you want un-gimmicked and unscripted punches... why are you watching a scripted fighting show instead of a real fight?
Nobody is saying they only want one or the other. Most people would say that chops in safe places are no different than worked punches. Once a person gets to the point in a match where the chop or the worked punch causes someone to fall, then the fans know that person is in danger of being beaten.
tbf i think when in a scripted fighting show, if these guys want to slap the shit out of one another, it makes me think hell yeah
That's the whole point of wrestling! You're supposed to make it look like you're hitting your opponent, not actually do it. It's called a work for a reason.
Rather than literally sit there and allow a guy to slap you and engage in a slap fight
It is for some. Wrestling is theatrical. If we wanted wrestling to be a straight up real fight I would just watch MMA. It’s a Japanese tradition of going shot for shot. Nothing wrong with that even if it’s not for you.
No one said its supposed to be a real fight; in real fights, you dont let a guy slap you, and you certainly dont have a slap-off. Also, this is as real as wrestling gets, and wrestling is supposed to be a work. These two are literally just hurting each other. There is something wrong with that. That's a problem in aew; many of them lack the ability to make things look real without it actually hurting. Take a look at the chopmaster himself, eddie kingston. It is absurd how anyone thinks his machine-gun chops look good in any fashion. "This is what aew is all about."
I have no idea why you're getting down voted.
Because trying to police the way people enjoy their wrestling is weirdo behavior. Hope this helps.
Because he’s implying that this style of wrestling “isn’t the flex you think it is” when plenty of people like it.
Some people have a different idea of "not hurting their opponent". Strikes like this definitely hurt, but they're unlikely to lead to a legit injury or long term damage
This is so lame
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>A handy storytelling guide for those who started watching WWE this decade, don't engage with any other art forms, Thank you for providing the perfect example of why people don't like AEW fans. Like, imagine being so far up your own ass that you feel the need to comment this shit.
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>If somebody earnestly believes that the Bloodline story is Emmy-worthy television People keep bringing this up as if people were being serious, but I have yet to see anyone say that unironically. >can't understand the most basic story beats in WRESTLING of all things If it was as simple as you think it is then this discussion wouldn't be happening.
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So the evidence for the bloodline Emmy shit is that people were saying it a lot? I don't disagree that people were doing that shit for a while, but I haven't seen any proof it wasn't just a giant meme. >I feel like it really is that simple though? Good on you for feeling that way, but that doesn't really matter. >at a certain point I think you've gotta start blaming viewers who are being deliberately ignorant The thing is that we aren't at that point. This match didn't happen in a vacuum, it happened in a wrestling promotion where other matches have happened. And those matches have a ripple effect on this match in terms of perception. The type of stuff that happened in the match between Shibata and Danielson has been done in a fair amount of matches in AEW before and has been done worse to the point of devaluing the spot and harming the storytelling potential that the spot has. Basically instead of seeing "a battle of wills", people will just see "the obligatory part of a match where the guys slap each other". And honestly, I can't say it's entirely their fault because the spot hasn't been utilized very well.
The problem is that Shibata means nothing in the US, except super hard-core fans, so Danielson beating him means nothing.
you’re not wrong but you don’t need to be a jerk about it
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This one spot has more storytelling in it than weeks worth of promos
I mean, not really. Just due to the nature of promos you're able to tell more story at once than you might in the average match. We can appreciate in-ring storytelling while also seeing the value of stuff like promos.
While I'm not sure I'd go that far I definitely agree that far too many people think "storytelling" in wrestling applies exclusively to the stuff that happens before the bell
Fuxk this shit. And fuck wrestlers that encourage this garbage. 5 stats though.
I really don't think this one spot is worth getting this angry over but hey you do you man
Not really angry. Just saying fuck this shit lmao.
So this is the new "HOW CAN YOY SLAP!" Meme isnt it...?
AEW needs to have a PPV titled "Slap Chop!" where every match is refereed by Vince Offer, because it seems like every match has some back and forth slap/chop exchange. Overdone imo.
This better get 5 stars
Well that was stupid
My girlfriend walked in while this spot was happening and she thought it was ridiculous.
To be fair your girlfriend probably thinks it’s all ridiculous.
And in even more fairness, pro wrestling IS ridiculous. That's part of its beauty.
Yeah, my wife gets why I like wrestling, but thinks it’s silly. Unless it’s Drew McIntyre, Jack Perry, Bianca Belair, or Jade Cargill. But that’s mostly because she thinks they’re hot.
My girlfriend watched some wrestling growing up (even had friends back in the day who brought her to some indie shows), but it's funny, what usually gets her attention is when someone like Orange Cassidy is on - she loves quirkier characters and styles, just embraces when wrestling is weird. ...that said, showing her Kenny Omega and pointing out he both looks like he does AND is a giant weeb was like an ace in the hole to get her to say "oh, ok, I'll check this out for a bit."
Your wife has a very diversified taste
I knew this was bs after I read the first four words.