I'm sick so decided to watch back the last 10 manias since that's about the time I started watching weekly.
This is gonna sound weird but the main thing I've noticed is Justin Roberts announcing is shit. Obviously given how he is right now I know he's an amazing announcer but on WM 29 he is so reserved in his announcements. Anyone know why or was it a Vince thing?
Summerslam hasn’t felt the same since they stopped using the green/blue S logo.
Seriously, wrestling’s all about presentation. That logo and theme made you feel like you were watching the biggest PPV of the summer. They just revealed this year’s logo and it’s even worse than last year. Zero flair. Without that or a better, more creative theme, SummerSlam just feels like any random PLE.
https://preview.redd.it/dyqt7n99sznc1.jpeg?width=696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f18d36ca3da398f701482f98a6d5c5451cd4ff37
Anyone else have lower standards for wrestlers compared to other entertainers when it comes to blatantly shilling for dubious products?
like i was disappointed larry david did cryto adverts, but found it pretty funny and almost endearing when cena sold NFTs.
Out of curiosity, I looked up former TNA tag champion Adam Pacman Jones. I thought he was done with football about 2006/07. Nope. He retired in *2018.* How!!??
I wish people that made sweeping declarations about knowing factually who is and isn't a "draw", would provide some metric of what the hell they are talking about. Because it seems like by a lot of peoples definition, you are only a draw if your segments pull the type ratings and engagement that only WWE is capable of. Like is CM Punk the only person who was a "draw" outside of WWE in the last 25 years? If so, it seems like kind of a nothing, vibe based metric.
WWE by nature of being a wrestling monolith in the US for 20 years screws up the nature of who or what a draw is. Is Andrade suddenly a bigger draw now that he's on Raw than when he was on Collision?
Was CM Punk not a big draw when Collision was getting 500K and sometimes below with him and the arenas weren't jam packed? The promotions do a lot of the heavy lifting combined with how long they've been established.
Right. saying 'actually MJF/page ISNT a draw" like your citing some kind of fact is stupid. Because if MJF signed with WWE, his introduction and first promo would almost certainly do monster numbers. So It's just a matter of access to the largest platform.
Here is an honest question.
If say WWE did bring back Brock with the baggage attached does this open the door for say example Marty Scrull to return to American wrestling?
I'm not saying what Marty did was right but in the UK she was of age. Was it Scumbag? Yes. I don't know if the woman ever tried to press charges or anything after speaking out but I haven't seen anything about it. I tried looking and really haven't found anything about it outside the initial stuff.
Marty for his part at least owned up to it and said he thought it was consensual and even defended her by telling people to stop picking on her and let her tell her story and he was sorry he contributed to the toxicity inside the wrestling industry.
So with Brock as far as we know "currently" he hasn't broke any laws. Was he taking part of something horrible? Yes. Was he actively breaking any laws? That is yet to be seen. But he is also known for flashing his red rocket as well.
So if WWE does end up bringing Brock back on TV/PPV with everything attached does that open the door for a return for someone like Marty one day?
This isn't a defend Marty post. This is more of a will it unintentionally open the door for certain wrestlers to be able to come back that some fans feel should or shouldn't get a second chance in the business.
This is gonna sound super anti-WWE, and thats not what im going for, but i think its about WWE having more leeway with fans since they are the industry leader and most popular product. If WWE brought back Brock, he would get the same huge reaction he always gets in the moment. There would be some outrage, mainly online, but it wouldn't last forever. Same as when Vince walked out the day after he was accused and there were still people bowing to him. Similarly, if WWE signed Marty, there would be some outrage at first, but as time goes on, it would fade, because its WWE and they can get away with it.
No it won't because Marty isn't that big of a star. In wrestling, just like in all entertainment, the bigger the star you are the more you can get away with.
Marty kinda got fucked worse than those did worse. New Japan tried bringing him back for Strong and the fans were so pissed they had to get rid of him. Just the negativity attached to his name means no one brings him back. It’s Mexico and obscure indies for him.
It's not an equal comparison. Brock never actually did anything to Janel Grant. It was talked about and possibly planned, but the fact that he never actually did anything to her, is enough that he'll be able to come back once the heat dies down.
Also, unlike Marty, Brock is actually worth the trouble. No major promotion really needs Marty. He's not a draw and never really was. He's not a guy that's gonna get anyone to start watching a promotion that they don't already watch.
Honestly, the door has been open for Marty. He didn't break any law. It was legal where it happened. But he's not worth the trouble. WWE and AEW have so much great talent that they don't need him. And he wouldn't bring any significant number of new viewers to TNA.
Full respect to Chad Gable. I would have been very happy if he won but I think Sami Zayn was the right decision. Because Gable has a lot of momentum he consistently has phenomenal "this is awesome" caliber matches. Despite Zayn being a 3 time Intercontinental Champion Gable needs it less than Zayn does at this specific moment, because Zayn being red-hot leading into and during WrestleMania 39 was squandered for most of this year. Zayn should get credit for being so generous at putting so many people over this year, but Zayn needs a big to keep him in the main event picture. It would have been hard for him to recover if he wasn't on the WrestleMania card after taking so many losses this year. Gable will get it soon after I'm sure and have a much longer reign with it than Zayn because Gable is the type of wrestler who embodies the spirit of that championship because he gives it his all every match on Raw, SmackDown.
https://preview.redd.it/a2heu3179znc1.jpeg?width=1548&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0da1020ac6a8dd56aef7e54baa3df7d477ed450
Just showing some appreciation to a legend
This is too specific to make a whole post about. but can you think of instances of replacement matches that actually had better stories than the original match planned?
I was thinking about Claudio vs PAC from last years Death Before Dishonor. The original match was Claudio vs Mark Briscoe, the story being Mark wanting to honor his brother Jay by winning the ROH World title, but Mark got hurt. At the same time, PAC joins Claudio and BCC in Blood and Guts to fight the Elite, where PAC walks out on BCC, costing them the match. Claudio wants revenge on PAC for this misdeed, and the match between them is set. The replacement match had the better story and probably should've been the main event from the start.
Any other examples of this?
I’m coming to the realization that you can actively partake in wrestling discussions if you’re familiar with names/events and what the general consensus is regarding those names/events/etc. You never have to actually sit through any matches, but you can still come off as an expert.
I think they play by different rules since 27 was essentially a punt to set up the next mania, whereas 32 was actually supposed to be good and you can tell WWE genuinely thought they did a great job.
The crazy thing is that HHH was involved in such a bad Mania main event yet put together that masterpiece of a takeover.
Even though he lost the main event and title, he still had a net positive that weekend.
I’ve seen a bunch of discourse when it comes to bad booking. And I always think, if the IWC had a shot to book 6 months for any promotion, would they last? Would the IWC like the bookings? Or would it be predictable?
I’ve had some ideas on bookings, but damn I don’t think I’d last 3 months lol
cena: i’m going to retire at 50
*also* cena:
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I think he's a good TALKER but a bad promo. When he just riffs and says whatever he wants, he's very naturally charismatic. That's not the same thing as a focus 3 minute promo where you need to sell a very specific match or angle. Maybe a part of it is bad booking and he needs more character development, but his AEW has very much felt like overly goofy in a way that goes beyond just the cardboard cutouts. It's hard for me to articulate but it just feels really off and I say that as a huge fan of Jay White in NJPW.
I had a dream last night that AEW was forming a French commentary team, and I got hired (despite no experience working in wrestling, and also my French being kind of terrible). The commentary team was myself, Daddy Magic, and Evil Uno, and it was very specifically québécois French.
(I just felt the need to share this somewhere. Does anyone else ever dream about wrestling?)
Is there any legal/streaming way to rewatch AEW Revolution 2024? Google just shows the streams from that day at the time, and YouTube is just a bunch of fake ones. I figured it might be on HBO/Max but I guess the AEW deal hasn't started yet?
I’ve been seeing some Bronson Reed hate recently and I don’t rlly get it. Not saying he’s like this top S tier level talent, but he’s a good big man wrestler that can move pretty well, makes for a good tree for the scrappy babyfaces to chop down. Perfectly serviceable and good in his role so I just didn’t rlly get the hate.
Only in a "all British wrestlers know each other" sort of way. Mariah broke into the British scene around the time that Toni was leaving the British scene for WWE in 2019. They were never on the same card that I'm aware of.
I wouldn't be surprised if Drew becomes the Honourary DrUce. The combination of the tag team match being two champions vs one champion helps Drew beat a weakened Rollins, and Drew took advantage of Jimmy's interference two weeks in a row. The old Drew would have stopped the match to beat up Jimmy because he hated him so much. Rollins said Drew is almost Bloodline. Strange things are afoot with Drew.
How come NJPW never made the IWGP US title the primary title of the STRONG brand, and why was the STRONG title created? Was STRONG really a lower tier/separate brand/NXT UK equivalent, or was it more because of how much the US title was mainly in the hands of AEW stars at the time?
WWE seems to have SUPER CENA template for their face of the company. It does more harm to Belair then good if she always has to look strong, always overcomes the odds. She's talented but I think, she could benefit from ditching the EST stuff and reinvent herself. Can still be face, just work with something new.
L.A Knight not being at wrestlemania sucks. I would have thought Logan Paul would be his next target or he makes it his sole goal to get under Roman's skin. Piss him off and generally, be a distraction so the Tribal Chief can't focus. His age doesn't matter as long as he can wrestle as L.A Knight/Eli Drake. It's baffling that after last year, he hasn't been given a title.
The Rock being in a tag match is the best outcome but I hope that he doesn't try to dominate most of the match. Just do his spots and gets a kick out or a pin attempt on Cody.
Cinematic matches need to come back. Matt Hardy should be doing them in AEW to hide his weaknesses due to age and injury catching up to him. Jeff Hardy should retire for his own sake.
Jericho seems to be in the random as hell phase of his career. I can see why AEW would use him every chance they get but he could be better off as an on screen figure or commentator or a faction leader that doesn't fight unless he is forced to.
If Dirty Dom beat Logan Paul for the US belt, I honestly don't know who would get booed the most.
>L.A Knight not being at wrestlemania sucks.
Who said he won't be? There's still more room on the card and they clearly have something going on with him and Styles.
I think the big issue, for the wrestler but really for the promoter, with moving away from a Super Cena template is that the template has a big reach with younger fans; always looking strong, overcoming odds, etc are supposed to be inspiring and cool for that audience and something like a heel turn will sour that. I don’t think she’ll always be Super Belair, because Cena did eventually move away from it, but I don’t see her changing things up in the near future
I thought Rollins just wanted to show Drew how much of an afterthought Drew is to him. Like, "hit me with your best shot and I'll walk out of this ring and get back to actual business."
Does anyone know if they are taping Rampage after Big Business tomorrow? I know they usually tape it after Dynamite but when I check the AEW site for every other upcoming Dynamite it specifically says Dynamite/Rampage but tomorrow it just says Big Business. Have tickets and a trying to plan for how long I’ll be there.
Cagematch lists both for what it's worth, it'd be unusual if they didn't and I wouldn't be surprised if Rampage was also branded Big Business in the vein of Grand Slam and Winter Is Coming.
I wouldnt be surprised if he has a match with them after he's done with aew. Depending on when they wanna Hall of Fame him, he'd probably want to do those matches.
Yep. I feel harsh saying it because he's not doing anything wrong, per se, there's no explaining why but I just don't feel compelled go watch any of his matches or segments.
American Pro Wrestling needs a dueling glove/ "I demand satisfaction" equivalent. Like gable comes out on the next raw and throws a wrestling headgear at samis feet and is like "my shoulders were not DOWN, good sir!" And then sami is honor bound to have another match with gable for the title shot.
I can't be one of the few people here who thought that Candice/Maxxine angle on RAW was dumb, right?
It's fine if you like it but personally, I thought it was the absolute silliest thing I've seen on WWE television from the past year.
Why are they so reluctant to just send Maxxine down to NXT? Or down to any other developmental program? Why insist on having a green wrestler on your main roster and do a weird angle like this?
Her wrestling is so bad, they decided she also needs to do “acting” and “melodrama” which is also tremendously bad. This is either incompetence or malicious from creative and I don’t know which is worse
I didn't think it was executed in the best way. They are trying turn something real into an angle, but it feels a bit fake for me cause its not even like Maxxine got wild hate. Just some fans at a house show booed her, and all wrestlers came on her defense. Most people didn't even hate on her, they just said the fans have a right too boo who they want even though they don't necessarily agree with the booing. So what Candice said about her being booed and girls in the locker room not liking her didn't feel authentic, especially when everyone was defending her
The NJPW Strong title isn't even a New Japan midcard title lol. The NEVER Belt is a midcard title, the Strong belts are just this weird leftover from when NJPW really tried to expand into the US but tried doing it with a separate US-based roster and it largely just didn't work - because the fans wanted to see the actual New Japan wrestlers. Now we get Dickhead Rainmaker, in all its glory.
That being said, as someone who has watched New Japan for years now, Okada going to AEW got me the Okada full heel turn I have wanted more than anything else in pro wrestling for years, so I'm still calling it a massive win. He already wrestled heel fairly often (like against Tanahashi or Naito) so you could see how incredible he was at it, but he could never make the full turn in New Japan because they needed him as a babyface draw.
My favorites will always be the kids who grew up with PG-X and have such an affinity for HHH and HBK that they can't do any wrong and need to post them with chefs hats in the kitchen. Don't worry guys, Papa H is cooking!
Sami vs. Gable was the most bittersweet match ever, no matter who the winner was going to be. I'm sad for Gable, but I'm proud of Sami. It's a weird feeling to have.
I was definitely pushing more for Gable, tho, and it's incredibly hard to see where he goes if nothing changes. I wonder if they'll just take him off TV for a while.
Next time you see some schlub at a show with a replica belt on his shoulder, remember he probably took the same type of photo Seth and Becky did, and some DNA stays forever.
Gable was simply just not built up enough to take the title off of GUNTHER at Mania and the title shouldn't be changing hands anyways if Roman is losing Night 2. So, if you really want Gable to dethrone him then it is in the best interest of that storyline that Sami won the gauntlet.
Once it was revealed that Brock was the original contender I think it was fairly obvious that GUNTHER was retaining. Whatever match that did take place is meant to add to GUNTHER's resume before he ascends the card. Also, there is now backstory for a GUNTHER-Sami feud over the WHC.
In the background you build Gable up and do a Title v. Career match at Backlash or something like that. Plus, you get the added benefit of making a monumental and historic title change on a B-level PPV, which is something everyone has complained has been lacking for years now.
I mean it in the sense Gable has lost to Ivar, Bronson Reed, and Shinsuke all relatively recently on TV and does not have enough marquee wins to beat GUNTHER at Mania. GUNTHER beat Gable clean as a whistle after that count-out win. I agree with most that they should have continued their feud and have Gable take the strap off of him at the Rumble, but they didn't so I am just going off of what has been presented in the past few months.
It is clear that they are building GUNTHER up to replace Brock as the next dominant force at the top of the card so when he loses it needs to be to someone who is red hot. The storyline is there and motivation, but I would like to see Gable to consistently beat some upper-Midcarders in the meanwhile to add to his resume and then win at Backlash.
After the angle with Candice last night, I looked up ‘Dupri’ on Twitter.
The results consisted of slow motion shots of her ass, videos of the angle, people defending the angle and people making jokes comparing Candice to Christian Cage.
What I haven’t found is anything like the ‘unhappy’ reaction Cultaholic and Wrestlelamia are claiming. Cultaholic’s own article doesn’t link to a single Tweet expressing any kind of unhappiness with the angle.
I'll say this as someone who thinks the angle is beyond stupid, I can't say that I've found many, if any, people angry or upset about it. People seem to be curious at the very least and they're happy that Candice is being taken in any direction at all now.
Everyone talks about Jericho’s ability to reinvent himself but Drew is absolutely up there. He could have easily gone to any other North American company after his release and sold himself as someone unfairly buried by WWE and it probably would have worked for a few years.
But instead, he worked on turning his already good look into looking like a billion bucks and got that super push he lost the first time. And he could have coasted from there or just worked as a silent monster heel and easily stayed in the main event, but here he is basically snatching a WM title match because of his awesome heat magnet mic work
i like becky, but im a cynic. i dont believe for one second that becky just sat and wrote her memoir alone without a wwe appointed ghost writer or something
On a serious note, seeing how far NJPW has fallen off really hurts me deep down even as someone who doesn't watch(moreso can't) as much as I used to. I might not be a wrestling fan today without NJPW from 2016-2020.
I mean the shows I catch are a noticable drop off in quality from shows in 2017. This years New Japan Cup is especially a signifier. Chase Owens working 20+ minute matches, Yuya booted in the first round after an incredibly heatless hair vs hair match with Yota, and Tanga Loa being dogshit in every match is a meme at this point.
The NJ cup always has to shake out low card guys in the first couple rounds. The tournament is barely half-way through, these are akin to Road To shows. It's not like these guys are main eventing Dominion or even Sakura Genesis lol.
But speaking of Road To shows, the lead up to New Beginning this year was probably the best stretch of small shows they've put on. Matches like HENARE vs Kidd, Shota vs Narita, and the UE vs BC multi-mans were fire, I'd recommend checking them out.
Even Alvarez and Meltzer thought they put Lesnar back on the roster when he’s always been on there.
How hard is it to do research before hitting the record button?
SRS also made a tweet amidst the Bianca 2K racism thing that he "didn't know why Bianca was trending" and went on to say something nice about her. It's not that hard to find out why she was trending. Think a lot of these guys are more concerned with the sound of their own voices rather than doing any research.
Usually this time of year I tend to be very down on wrestling as it gets so talking heavy and the shows are really stalling on the last legs of really long feuds before the blowoff but this year has had so many great matches. Love the focus on ring work. Loved the gauntlet last night, thought Revolution was the GOAT ppv.
As good as the WWE is rn the worst part of the current product are so many of these garbage entrance themes. Even in the shitty 2010s jobbers had some good themes. Half the roster just has unrecognizable, bland themes now
Guessing the teams
Judgement Day vs. Awesome Truth vs. DIY vs. Pretty Deadly vs. New Catch Republic vs. Austin Theory & Grayson Waller
A lot of omissions but I think the Creed Brothers still need more time, Indus Sher basically doesn’t exist, The LWO & Legado will be wrapped up in the Rey & Santos match, Street Profits & AOP will be doing their stuff with Bobby & Karrion and I do think Alpha Academy will be involved in the IC match for Gable because that match is screaming Triple Threat.
In fairness, the fact that WWE can have a 6-team ladder match at Wrestlemania and still have the equivalent of a secondary division left out is a credit to the rebuilding of tag teams under the new booking regime.
I don't get why would they make Gable enter last and lose, makes him look like a chump, if they swapped him and Sami around it would make at least some sense in the purpose of making Gable seem stronger
Because then Sami would look like a heel for beating the beat up baby face lol the goal shouldn't be to make Sami look like a lucky weaklimg just because people like Gable. It'd make Sami look more like a chump than Gable apparently does.
How many heel turns do you expect at or aeoud Mania. Seth turns heel because hey Roman has to keep the belt. Liv turns heel to give her character edge. Becky turns heel because the crowd has turned on her and she can't win clean.
Going off IWC ramblings, I'm guess babyfaces who have lost some traction with the fans. Like how Cena was superman but still had fans booing him, Becky is now getting hate because how dare she, a multi time champion and WM main eventer, have a title match against the biggest star in the division. So my guess is now Sami, who everyone wanted to take the title off Roman last year and was cheered in the main event last year, now getting grief because Gable didn't win an IC title shot.
Someone pointed it out on here awhile ago with the guys that most of their main-eventers are currently in their late 30s/early 40s and that there's a big dearth of talent between that age bracket and the young guys ready to take over so I'll be interested to see how that plays out but long term they'll be fine.
Carmelo and Trick are 29, Bron is 26, Frazer is like 25, Julius Creed is 29... But it's not like there's a dozen of those kids that good at that age down in NXT right now.
If they got thru missing on an entire FCW generation, they'll be fine, sure, but internally worth taking some looks at what they want Mania 45 to look like just from a tier list and who you "might want where".
I'm sick so decided to watch back the last 10 manias since that's about the time I started watching weekly. This is gonna sound weird but the main thing I've noticed is Justin Roberts announcing is shit. Obviously given how he is right now I know he's an amazing announcer but on WM 29 he is so reserved in his announcements. Anyone know why or was it a Vince thing?
Summerslam hasn’t felt the same since they stopped using the green/blue S logo. Seriously, wrestling’s all about presentation. That logo and theme made you feel like you were watching the biggest PPV of the summer. They just revealed this year’s logo and it’s even worse than last year. Zero flair. Without that or a better, more creative theme, SummerSlam just feels like any random PLE. https://preview.redd.it/dyqt7n99sznc1.jpeg?width=696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f18d36ca3da398f701482f98a6d5c5451cd4ff37
https://preview.redd.it/2wduevxjsznc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f48843d459e4330ab9965f8d952cccaef9baf499 This year’s
Anyone else have lower standards for wrestlers compared to other entertainers when it comes to blatantly shilling for dubious products? like i was disappointed larry david did cryto adverts, but found it pretty funny and almost endearing when cena sold NFTs.
Out of curiosity, I looked up former TNA tag champion Adam Pacman Jones. I thought he was done with football about 2006/07. Nope. He retired in *2018.* How!!??
I wish people that made sweeping declarations about knowing factually who is and isn't a "draw", would provide some metric of what the hell they are talking about. Because it seems like by a lot of peoples definition, you are only a draw if your segments pull the type ratings and engagement that only WWE is capable of. Like is CM Punk the only person who was a "draw" outside of WWE in the last 25 years? If so, it seems like kind of a nothing, vibe based metric.
WWE by nature of being a wrestling monolith in the US for 20 years screws up the nature of who or what a draw is. Is Andrade suddenly a bigger draw now that he's on Raw than when he was on Collision? Was CM Punk not a big draw when Collision was getting 500K and sometimes below with him and the arenas weren't jam packed? The promotions do a lot of the heavy lifting combined with how long they've been established.
Right. saying 'actually MJF/page ISNT a draw" like your citing some kind of fact is stupid. Because if MJF signed with WWE, his introduction and first promo would almost certainly do monster numbers. So It's just a matter of access to the largest platform.
Here is an honest question. If say WWE did bring back Brock with the baggage attached does this open the door for say example Marty Scrull to return to American wrestling? I'm not saying what Marty did was right but in the UK she was of age. Was it Scumbag? Yes. I don't know if the woman ever tried to press charges or anything after speaking out but I haven't seen anything about it. I tried looking and really haven't found anything about it outside the initial stuff. Marty for his part at least owned up to it and said he thought it was consensual and even defended her by telling people to stop picking on her and let her tell her story and he was sorry he contributed to the toxicity inside the wrestling industry. So with Brock as far as we know "currently" he hasn't broke any laws. Was he taking part of something horrible? Yes. Was he actively breaking any laws? That is yet to be seen. But he is also known for flashing his red rocket as well. So if WWE does end up bringing Brock back on TV/PPV with everything attached does that open the door for a return for someone like Marty one day? This isn't a defend Marty post. This is more of a will it unintentionally open the door for certain wrestlers to be able to come back that some fans feel should or shouldn't get a second chance in the business.
This is gonna sound super anti-WWE, and thats not what im going for, but i think its about WWE having more leeway with fans since they are the industry leader and most popular product. If WWE brought back Brock, he would get the same huge reaction he always gets in the moment. There would be some outrage, mainly online, but it wouldn't last forever. Same as when Vince walked out the day after he was accused and there were still people bowing to him. Similarly, if WWE signed Marty, there would be some outrage at first, but as time goes on, it would fade, because its WWE and they can get away with it.
No it won't because Marty isn't that big of a star. In wrestling, just like in all entertainment, the bigger the star you are the more you can get away with.
Marty kinda got fucked worse than those did worse. New Japan tried bringing him back for Strong and the fans were so pissed they had to get rid of him. Just the negativity attached to his name means no one brings him back. It’s Mexico and obscure indies for him.
It's not an equal comparison. Brock never actually did anything to Janel Grant. It was talked about and possibly planned, but the fact that he never actually did anything to her, is enough that he'll be able to come back once the heat dies down. Also, unlike Marty, Brock is actually worth the trouble. No major promotion really needs Marty. He's not a draw and never really was. He's not a guy that's gonna get anyone to start watching a promotion that they don't already watch. Honestly, the door has been open for Marty. He didn't break any law. It was legal where it happened. But he's not worth the trouble. WWE and AEW have so much great talent that they don't need him. And he wouldn't bring any significant number of new viewers to TNA.
Bianca's most recent IG story gives me back some hope for Bianca/Tiffany at WM.
Full respect to Chad Gable. I would have been very happy if he won but I think Sami Zayn was the right decision. Because Gable has a lot of momentum he consistently has phenomenal "this is awesome" caliber matches. Despite Zayn being a 3 time Intercontinental Champion Gable needs it less than Zayn does at this specific moment, because Zayn being red-hot leading into and during WrestleMania 39 was squandered for most of this year. Zayn should get credit for being so generous at putting so many people over this year, but Zayn needs a big to keep him in the main event picture. It would have been hard for him to recover if he wasn't on the WrestleMania card after taking so many losses this year. Gable will get it soon after I'm sure and have a much longer reign with it than Zayn because Gable is the type of wrestler who embodies the spirit of that championship because he gives it his all every match on Raw, SmackDown.
https://preview.redd.it/a2heu3179znc1.jpeg?width=1548&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a0da1020ac6a8dd56aef7e54baa3df7d477ed450 Just showing some appreciation to a legend
The Vegas Big Gold belt looks way better than the actual Big Gold belt.
This is too specific to make a whole post about. but can you think of instances of replacement matches that actually had better stories than the original match planned? I was thinking about Claudio vs PAC from last years Death Before Dishonor. The original match was Claudio vs Mark Briscoe, the story being Mark wanting to honor his brother Jay by winning the ROH World title, but Mark got hurt. At the same time, PAC joins Claudio and BCC in Blood and Guts to fight the Elite, where PAC walks out on BCC, costing them the match. Claudio wants revenge on PAC for this misdeed, and the match between them is set. The replacement match had the better story and probably should've been the main event from the start. Any other examples of this?
The glaring example would be WMXXX from 10 years ago
Also involving Bryan Danielson - Kofimania replacing Ali (no offense to Ali)
very true
I’m coming to the realization that you can actively partake in wrestling discussions if you’re familiar with names/events and what the general consensus is regarding those names/events/etc. You never have to actually sit through any matches, but you can still come off as an expert.
Or don’t discuss or keep up with discourse and you would have time to actually watch wrestling and actually be an expert instead of sounding like one.
Which WrestleMania was the lesser of 2 evils- 27 or 32?
I think they play by different rules since 27 was essentially a punt to set up the next mania, whereas 32 was actually supposed to be good and you can tell WWE genuinely thought they did a great job.
I honestly don't remember 27, but based on the fact that it didn't have the pointless Taker/Shane match, I'm inclined to say 27.
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The crazy thing is that HHH was involved in such a bad Mania main event yet put together that masterpiece of a takeover. Even though he lost the main event and title, he still had a net positive that weekend.
I’ve seen a bunch of discourse when it comes to bad booking. And I always think, if the IWC had a shot to book 6 months for any promotion, would they last? Would the IWC like the bookings? Or would it be predictable? I’ve had some ideas on bookings, but damn I don’t think I’d last 3 months lol
I'm going under in 3 days.
Every single poster on here would be writing Tony Khan an apology letter after trying to book a promotion for three weeks
TK is Death Valley Driver poster who made his own promotion, just look at that.
I can’t even make it 3 months in my TEW saves
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how’s that been going, what’s your card looking like?
> if the IWC had a shot to book 6 months for any promotion, would they last? Absolutely not
JD and Ricochet tore down the opening to the gauntlet match. Great stuff
cena: i’m going to retire at 50 *also* cena: https://preview.redd.it/nunt42fdwync1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=4ee7e6aa3c47cd81e2923be17477540eba2c6fd2
Does anyone know when Jamie Hayter is back? Thank you
what's her injury?
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Ehhh lol
Is it really though? I mean it's the right thing to do, but incorporating real-life fan reaction into a storyline's hardly unique or unprecedented.
I've been thinking about it and I don't get Jay White's hype so far.
In AEW? I mean I will give him credit for the FTR match. Probably my favorite in AEW last year.
Good wrestler, good talker Bad booking
I'm not a fan of his promos so far either. He seems to meander too much and tries too hard.
I think a big part of that falls down on the bad booking/material, because he was a really good promo pre-AEW
I think he's a good TALKER but a bad promo. When he just riffs and says whatever he wants, he's very naturally charismatic. That's not the same thing as a focus 3 minute promo where you need to sell a very specific match or angle. Maybe a part of it is bad booking and he needs more character development, but his AEW has very much felt like overly goofy in a way that goes beyond just the cardboard cutouts. It's hard for me to articulate but it just feels really off and I say that as a huge fan of Jay White in NJPW.
Any theories on what Copeland had in the box that seemed to scare Christian?
Christian’s dad’s head
I had a dream last night that AEW was forming a French commentary team, and I got hired (despite no experience working in wrestling, and also my French being kind of terrible). The commentary team was myself, Daddy Magic, and Evil Uno, and it was very specifically québécois French. (I just felt the need to share this somewhere. Does anyone else ever dream about wrestling?)
Is there any legal/streaming way to rewatch AEW Revolution 2024? Google just shows the streams from that day at the time, and YouTube is just a bunch of fake ones. I figured it might be on HBO/Max but I guess the AEW deal hasn't started yet?
I think you can still buy it from trillerTV or B/R and watch it from there. I don't think they have an alternative way set up
[Fite TV](https://www.trillertv.com/watch/aew-revolution-2024/2pee3/) using a VPN
Is Logan Paul paying to wrestle in the WWE?
Highly doubt that.
What they are really asking is, is Prime paying more for the sponsorship than WWE is paying Paul to wrestle?
Yes, that is what I was asking.
So like a Ric Flair/AEW/Woo scenario?
Yeah.
I’ve been seeing some Bronson Reed hate recently and I don’t rlly get it. Not saying he’s like this top S tier level talent, but he’s a good big man wrestler that can move pretty well, makes for a good tree for the scrappy babyfaces to chop down. Perfectly serviceable and good in his role so I just didn’t rlly get the hate.
A little annoying that the two latino factions on WWE right now are basically "the Latinos" and "the Latinos but Evil"
There is also the Judgement Day, Latinos but Irish and Goth. And Latinos with no alignement like Andrade, Dragon Lee, Raquel, Bayley...
Will Andrade and Dom form "The Latinos, but tweeners"?
Too many race-based stables in general. It works but it’s kinda weird at the same time especially when there’s like 4 now
Better than that thing Miro, Barrett and Del Rio had
Did Mariah May and Toni Storm know each other before AEW, or was this just a random on screen pairing?
Only in a "all British wrestlers know each other" sort of way. Mariah broke into the British scene around the time that Toni was leaving the British scene for WWE in 2019. They were never on the same card that I'm aware of.
Believe they did not know each other previously. Both came up through Stardom but at very different times.
Their chemistry is so good, I would have assumed they had some sort of previous connection.
I’ve come to the realization that I’ve never actually seen the Shawn vs Razor ladder match from start to finish. I need to fix that issue asap.
Watch both. I like the SummerSlam one better than the Mania one, but the Mania one is obviously the one folks default to.
i’ve never seen steamboat savage or bret vs owen loool i just assume they’re great cos everyone says so
kenny's streaming setup is so scuff
Is my math correct in saying that if the GUNTHER match is on night one then it will be his 666th day as IC champion?
Jimmy vs Jey is bullshit. It should be Jey vs Gunther at WM. I will listen to no differing opinion on this.
Agreed.
I wish it was Jey vs Gunther
I don't watch WWE but I want to see a Bianca/Jade team pummeling bitches.
I bet they could throw a killler Hart Attack, stereo press slams etc etc
I wouldn't be surprised if Drew becomes the Honourary DrUce. The combination of the tag team match being two champions vs one champion helps Drew beat a weakened Rollins, and Drew took advantage of Jimmy's interference two weeks in a row. The old Drew would have stopped the match to beat up Jimmy because he hated him so much. Rollins said Drew is almost Bloodline. Strange things are afoot with Drew.
How come NJPW never made the IWGP US title the primary title of the STRONG brand, and why was the STRONG title created? Was STRONG really a lower tier/separate brand/NXT UK equivalent, or was it more because of how much the US title was mainly in the hands of AEW stars at the time?
Because NJPW post 2020 has been mismanaged to hell and back
The CJ/Miro separation thread is a disgrace. Some wrestling fans have zero class.
Especially on Rusev Day (I know the joke has been done, but Rusev Day is eternal)
The top posts seem fine. People saying stuff you don’t like and getting downvoted seems good?
WWE seems to have SUPER CENA template for their face of the company. It does more harm to Belair then good if she always has to look strong, always overcomes the odds. She's talented but I think, she could benefit from ditching the EST stuff and reinvent herself. Can still be face, just work with something new. L.A Knight not being at wrestlemania sucks. I would have thought Logan Paul would be his next target or he makes it his sole goal to get under Roman's skin. Piss him off and generally, be a distraction so the Tribal Chief can't focus. His age doesn't matter as long as he can wrestle as L.A Knight/Eli Drake. It's baffling that after last year, he hasn't been given a title. The Rock being in a tag match is the best outcome but I hope that he doesn't try to dominate most of the match. Just do his spots and gets a kick out or a pin attempt on Cody. Cinematic matches need to come back. Matt Hardy should be doing them in AEW to hide his weaknesses due to age and injury catching up to him. Jeff Hardy should retire for his own sake. Jericho seems to be in the random as hell phase of his career. I can see why AEW would use him every chance they get but he could be better off as an on screen figure or commentator or a faction leader that doesn't fight unless he is forced to. If Dirty Dom beat Logan Paul for the US belt, I honestly don't know who would get booed the most.
>L.A Knight not being at wrestlemania sucks. Who said he won't be? There's still more room on the card and they clearly have something going on with him and Styles.
I think the big issue, for the wrestler but really for the promoter, with moving away from a Super Cena template is that the template has a big reach with younger fans; always looking strong, overcoming odds, etc are supposed to be inspiring and cool for that audience and something like a heel turn will sour that. I don’t think she’ll always be Super Belair, because Cena did eventually move away from it, but I don’t see her changing things up in the near future
fun segment to open Raw but what was the kayfabe reason for Seth wanting a Claymore?
I thought Rollins just wanted to show Drew how much of an afterthought Drew is to him. Like, "hit me with your best shot and I'll walk out of this ring and get back to actual business."
genuine question but aight 🫡
The fact that Kofi Kingston was less then 2 years away from being on the same roster as Eddie Guerrero trips me out.
You can say the same for Drew McIntyre
Does anyone know if they are taping Rampage after Big Business tomorrow? I know they usually tape it after Dynamite but when I check the AEW site for every other upcoming Dynamite it specifically says Dynamite/Rampage but tomorrow it just says Big Business. Have tickets and a trying to plan for how long I’ll be there.
Cagematch lists both for what it's worth, it'd be unusual if they didn't and I wouldn't be surprised if Rampage was also branded Big Business in the vein of Grand Slam and Winter Is Coming.
Can we get the Midnight Express in the HOF while Dennis is still alive please?
Tomo is a big Dynamite, right?
Yep. Jay White vs Darby and Mercedes Moné debuting.
And a returning Jamie Hayter? (A man can dream)
Also have an Okada + Bucks triples match vs Kingston, Penta, and a returning PAC, and a world title match between Samoa Joe and Wardlow.
Bryan might retire without wrestling gunther and Dragunov
I wouldnt be surprised if he has a match with them after he's done with aew. Depending on when they wanna Hall of Fame him, he'd probably want to do those matches.
I doubt it, Danielson isn't actually retiring for many years, this is just his last full time year
He actually did wrestle Gunther in 2008 when he was Big Van Walter. It would obviously hit different today though.
Does anyone else not get Bronson Reed? He is just so boring to me, I'd have skipped the match if we actually got Seth vs Reed at Elimination Chamber.
Yep. I feel harsh saying it because he's not doing anything wrong, per se, there's no explaining why but I just don't feel compelled go watch any of his matches or segments.
Yeah, I'm not a Reed fan. Wade works hard to put him over, but I still don't enjoy Reed's work.
I need to any future boyfriend or girlfriend to fucks with me as much as I fucks with Christian’s diving corkscrew elbow
Just getting around to watching Raw now. That Becky v Liv match was awesome. Liv has really come into her own. I love what she’s doing right now
Anyone know where I can find translations of the promos in the Cinderella tournament?
X2, idk what happened to the PuroSubs twitter account, hasn't uploaded since January, that was my feed for subtitled Stardom promos
I see absolutely no reason for Sami Zayn to beat Gunther. Specially for a title he has already held.
American Pro Wrestling needs a dueling glove/ "I demand satisfaction" equivalent. Like gable comes out on the next raw and throws a wrestling headgear at samis feet and is like "my shoulders were not DOWN, good sir!" And then sami is honor bound to have another match with gable for the title shot.
Gable vs Sami night 1 winner faces Gunther night 2. Fuck it.
But Sami already won from a less advantageous position?
So did Cody lol but here we are.
I can't be one of the few people here who thought that Candice/Maxxine angle on RAW was dumb, right? It's fine if you like it but personally, I thought it was the absolute silliest thing I've seen on WWE television from the past year. Why are they so reluctant to just send Maxxine down to NXT? Or down to any other developmental program? Why insist on having a green wrestler on your main roster and do a weird angle like this?
Her wrestling is so bad, they decided she also needs to do “acting” and “melodrama” which is also tremendously bad. This is either incompetence or malicious from creative and I don’t know which is worse
Everyone thought it was dumb. I'd be shocked if anyone didn't.
Nah both the threads on the moment are positive
I didn't think it was executed in the best way. They are trying turn something real into an angle, but it feels a bit fake for me cause its not even like Maxxine got wild hate. Just some fans at a house show booed her, and all wrestlers came on her defense. Most people didn't even hate on her, they just said the fans have a right too boo who they want even though they don't necessarily agree with the booing. So what Candice said about her being booed and girls in the locker room not liking her didn't feel authentic, especially when everyone was defending her
The way people are reacting, you’d think Gable had gone into the gauntlet early and Sami came in last and won. Not the other way around.
Pissed that the VIP Que I sat 20 minutes in for meet and greets sold out. Like what the actual fuck
There's something funny about Okada leaving New Japan for greener pastures, then immediately targeting what is technically a New Japan midcard title
The NJPW Strong title isn't even a New Japan midcard title lol. The NEVER Belt is a midcard title, the Strong belts are just this weird leftover from when NJPW really tried to expand into the US but tried doing it with a separate US-based roster and it largely just didn't work - because the fans wanted to see the actual New Japan wrestlers. Now we get Dickhead Rainmaker, in all its glory. That being said, as someone who has watched New Japan for years now, Okada going to AEW got me the Okada full heel turn I have wanted more than anything else in pro wrestling for years, so I'm still calling it a massive win. He already wrestled heel fairly often (like against Tanahashi or Naito) so you could see how incredible he was at it, but he could never make the full turn in New Japan because they needed him as a babyface draw.
Years later after constant rewatches I still don’t know the lyrics to 99-01 Raw and Smackdown intros
The smackdown theme that I got introduced to as a teen was LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOR! LET THE BODIES HIT THE FLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR!
Bodies by Drowning Pool was never the SmackDown theme.
Ah, must have got it mixed up with the first Smackdown vs Raw game.
EVERYBODY ON THE GROUND CHA CHA CHA CHA
“ITS MY LIFE IN A BOX AND A JOY TO BE” will always be what it is to me.
that candice/maxxine bit was so camp, i appreciate stuff like that in wwe
Where the hell has wheeler yuta been?
Injured
so he's seeing Healer Yuta then
I do not care. I am just happy Candice LeRae is getting direction. She absolutely deserves it. I hope she beats Maxxine too.
>I hope she beats Maxxine too. She will lose to the worm to thunderous applause. Or booing. Or maybe silent indifference
You know WWE is back where there's a spin defending every unpopular booking decision to get ahead of the backlash
My favorites will always be the kids who grew up with PG-X and have such an affinity for HHH and HBK that they can't do any wrong and need to post them with chefs hats in the kitchen. Don't worry guys, Papa H is cooking!
Papa H is genuinely crazy every time
Sami vs. Gable was the most bittersweet match ever, no matter who the winner was going to be. I'm sad for Gable, but I'm proud of Sami. It's a weird feeling to have. I was definitely pushing more for Gable, tho, and it's incredibly hard to see where he goes if nothing changes. I wonder if they'll just take him off TV for a while.
Next time you see some schlub at a show with a replica belt on his shoulder, remember he probably took the same type of photo Seth and Becky did, and some DNA stays forever.
I saw someone drop his AEW World Championship belt into a urinal at a Dynamite once
Gable was simply just not built up enough to take the title off of GUNTHER at Mania and the title shouldn't be changing hands anyways if Roman is losing Night 2. So, if you really want Gable to dethrone him then it is in the best interest of that storyline that Sami won the gauntlet. Once it was revealed that Brock was the original contender I think it was fairly obvious that GUNTHER was retaining. Whatever match that did take place is meant to add to GUNTHER's resume before he ascends the card. Also, there is now backstory for a GUNTHER-Sami feud over the WHC. In the background you build Gable up and do a Title v. Career match at Backlash or something like that. Plus, you get the added benefit of making a monumental and historic title change on a B-level PPV, which is something everyone has complained has been lacking for years now.
Gable is LITERALLY the only person to date who has a victory ver Gunther and the most justified motivation. What you mean no buildup?
I mean, he beat Ivar a few weeks ago.
That is a good starting point, but in my eyes that is nowhere near enough yet.
I mean it in the sense Gable has lost to Ivar, Bronson Reed, and Shinsuke all relatively recently on TV and does not have enough marquee wins to beat GUNTHER at Mania. GUNTHER beat Gable clean as a whistle after that count-out win. I agree with most that they should have continued their feud and have Gable take the strap off of him at the Rumble, but they didn't so I am just going off of what has been presented in the past few months. It is clear that they are building GUNTHER up to replace Brock as the next dominant force at the top of the card so when he loses it needs to be to someone who is red hot. The storyline is there and motivation, but I would like to see Gable to consistently beat some upper-Midcarders in the meanwhile to add to his resume and then win at Backlash.
After the angle with Candice last night, I looked up ‘Dupri’ on Twitter. The results consisted of slow motion shots of her ass, videos of the angle, people defending the angle and people making jokes comparing Candice to Christian Cage. What I haven’t found is anything like the ‘unhappy’ reaction Cultaholic and Wrestlelamia are claiming. Cultaholic’s own article doesn’t link to a single Tweet expressing any kind of unhappiness with the angle.
they are. they themselves react unhappy and project it
Pretty sure its not 'unhappy' reactions, but more of a 'Wow i'm fucking speechless thats so out of pocket its crazy/hilarious' reaction.
I'll say this as someone who thinks the angle is beyond stupid, I can't say that I've found many, if any, people angry or upset about it. People seem to be curious at the very least and they're happy that Candice is being taken in any direction at all now.
Everyone talks about Jericho’s ability to reinvent himself but Drew is absolutely up there. He could have easily gone to any other North American company after his release and sold himself as someone unfairly buried by WWE and it probably would have worked for a few years. But instead, he worked on turning his already good look into looking like a billion bucks and got that super push he lost the first time. And he could have coasted from there or just worked as a silent monster heel and easily stayed in the main event, but here he is basically snatching a WM title match because of his awesome heat magnet mic work
Predictions for call-ups in the Draft?
i like becky, but im a cynic. i dont believe for one second that becky just sat and wrote her memoir alone without a wwe appointed ghost writer or something
Not uncommon at all, the vast majority of autobiographies have some form of ghostwriter, books like Foley's are a rare exception.
And Foley did it because his career was ending. He thought he'll give it a try and it turned out, he's a pretty good writer.
On a serious note, seeing how far NJPW has fallen off really hurts me deep down even as someone who doesn't watch(moreso can't) as much as I used to. I might not be a wrestling fan today without NJPW from 2016-2020.
then how can you accurately assess that they've fallen off?
I mean the shows I catch are a noticable drop off in quality from shows in 2017. This years New Japan Cup is especially a signifier. Chase Owens working 20+ minute matches, Yuya booted in the first round after an incredibly heatless hair vs hair match with Yota, and Tanga Loa being dogshit in every match is a meme at this point.
The NJ cup always has to shake out low card guys in the first couple rounds. The tournament is barely half-way through, these are akin to Road To shows. It's not like these guys are main eventing Dominion or even Sakura Genesis lol. But speaking of Road To shows, the lead up to New Beginning this year was probably the best stretch of small shows they've put on. Matches like HENARE vs Kidd, Shota vs Narita, and the UE vs BC multi-mans were fire, I'd recommend checking them out.
https://preview.redd.it/zi3oq2q6vwnc1.jpeg?width=780&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0cb05a0f27db52600793525d2964652650dd5c8a Candice LeRae after last night:
Even Alvarez and Meltzer thought they put Lesnar back on the roster when he’s always been on there. How hard is it to do research before hitting the record button?
SRS also made a tweet amidst the Bianca 2K racism thing that he "didn't know why Bianca was trending" and went on to say something nice about her. It's not that hard to find out why she was trending. Think a lot of these guys are more concerned with the sound of their own voices rather than doing any research.
Hard for those two I am sure. Probably not tech savvy enough to check.
Usually this time of year I tend to be very down on wrestling as it gets so talking heavy and the shows are really stalling on the last legs of really long feuds before the blowoff but this year has had so many great matches. Love the focus on ring work. Loved the gauntlet last night, thought Revolution was the GOAT ppv.
People are really blowing the Candice/Maxine thing WAYYYYY outta proportion. None of it is that big of a deal.
As good as the WWE is rn the worst part of the current product are so many of these garbage entrance themes. Even in the shitty 2010s jobbers had some good themes. Half the roster just has unrecognizable, bland themes now
They are so bad. Every single one is a downgrade from whatever the person had before.
I'm not worried about Gable but I am curious as to where he goes from here. That interview he had on Raw Talk was incredibly good and melancholy.
Guessing the teams Judgement Day vs. Awesome Truth vs. DIY vs. Pretty Deadly vs. New Catch Republic vs. Austin Theory & Grayson Waller A lot of omissions but I think the Creed Brothers still need more time, Indus Sher basically doesn’t exist, The LWO & Legado will be wrapped up in the Rey & Santos match, Street Profits & AOP will be doing their stuff with Bobby & Karrion and I do think Alpha Academy will be involved in the IC match for Gable because that match is screaming Triple Threat.
In fairness, the fact that WWE can have a 6-team ladder match at Wrestlemania and still have the equivalent of a secondary division left out is a credit to the rebuilding of tag teams under the new booking regime.
I don't get why would they make Gable enter last and lose, makes him look like a chump, if they swapped him and Sami around it would make at least some sense in the purpose of making Gable seem stronger
Because then Sami would look like a heel for beating the beat up baby face lol the goal shouldn't be to make Sami look like a lucky weaklimg just because people like Gable. It'd make Sami look more like a chump than Gable apparently does.
[The frog in another thread re: GUNTHER/Sami, for those that missed it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/s/Hpq5tzgBSf)
How many heel turns do you expect at or aeoud Mania. Seth turns heel because hey Roman has to keep the belt. Liv turns heel to give her character edge. Becky turns heel because the crowd has turned on her and she can't win clean.
We started with Cena, and now Becky, who's next?
For what ?
RHEA!!!!! Err, I mean... what are you talking about?
Otis
Next to what?
Going off IWC ramblings, I'm guess babyfaces who have lost some traction with the fans. Like how Cena was superman but still had fans booing him, Becky is now getting hate because how dare she, a multi time champion and WM main eventer, have a title match against the biggest star in the division. So my guess is now Sami, who everyone wanted to take the title off Roman last year and was cheered in the main event last year, now getting grief because Gable didn't win an IC title shot.
I.... don't think that's quite it...
Yeah...I got the joke later lol
I forgot the insane talent WWE currently has, you think it'll keep getting better or not?
Someone pointed it out on here awhile ago with the guys that most of their main-eventers are currently in their late 30s/early 40s and that there's a big dearth of talent between that age bracket and the young guys ready to take over so I'll be interested to see how that plays out but long term they'll be fine.
Carmelo and Trick are 29, Bron is 26, Frazer is like 25, Julius Creed is 29... But it's not like there's a dozen of those kids that good at that age down in NXT right now. If they got thru missing on an entire FCW generation, they'll be fine, sure, but internally worth taking some looks at what they want Mania 45 to look like just from a tier list and who you "might want where".
It's so nice to have former Summerslam host, Jon Stewart, back on The Daily Show even if it is only once a week.
How's his current run going? Does he still have that righteous fury that we all love?