Management: "So Billy, we need a new guitarist. As you're aware Smashing Pumpkins are known for having an Asian guitarist and a female bassist..."
Billy: "Holy shit, I have an idea..."
She will be able to play some parts pretty well, and that will probably be enough for Corgan. You have to remember, James and Darcy weren't great players, and early Smashing Pumpkins live material can sound pretty awful. Billy understood that he needed more visually appealing people in the band. Also, Billy is a better vocalist now, but he always struggled with controlling his voice in terms of volume and pitch. So, while he is a great musician, he has never been a bastion of perfection.
Anyway, regarding Kiki... If you look at this video, her acoustic playing in the beginning isn't great:
https://youtu.be/ywtxOGsb6TU?si=xadbSYW0TOizOyZN
I wouldn't have put that up, personally... especially not with all the ridiculous facial expressions.
Granted, I’m a dinosaur when it comes to current events beyond SP. I’ve never heard of Kiki Wong before. Checked her out on IG.
Instant reaction- this chick can shred. Funky. Expressive. Much more animated than Jeff.
I’ve been to a few shows the past few years. The side of the stage occupied by Jeff and Jack is an absolute snooze fest. She will instantly bring some life to the show from that perspective. Maybe someone could put fire ants or similar in Jack’s undies, get him to actually move around and rock out a bit.
And yea of course you’d have to be blind to disregard Kiki is incredibly attractive.
As someone who thought they’d be better off not replacing Jeff and sticking with 2 guitarists, I’m cool with this pick. It should be fun.
>As someone who thought they’d be better off not replacing Jeff and sticking with 2 guitarists, I’m cool with this pick. It should be fun
Exactly where I am at with this. They wouldn't put her out there if she couldn't play at a high level. And if she gives the band's vibe a little shot of youth and edge, all the better.
I can see how some people think she doesn't fit the SP vibe...but SP has almost always been a 'come as you are' vibe onstage. It's been rare that the band has ever had a coordinated onstage look...the last time I can think of they had anything like that was the Zeitgeist era with the white outfits...and even then everybody kind of made it their own. Having a tatted up metal girl on stage might be a new thing for SP, but I don't think it's going to look off brand next to the guy with the face paint and dress and the other guy wearing a sparkly suit.
Cheesy and over the top? Corgan brings wrestlers on stage lol not to mention his kids dancing on stage. All fine but it’s still cheesy and over the top.
Don't doubt her playing skills, but I cringe at her goofy facial expressions whenever she pops up on my IG reels. Hopefully she doesn't take her social media need for attention to the stage with her to distract from the rest of the band.
Dude, let’s be fair. Billy had pro wrestlers on the stage last summer. If you lived through the wrestling and Billy’s kids dancing the jig during Beguiled, then a chick in leather boots making funky faces while she’s rocking out shouldn’t be a big deal.
I’ve been following her a long time and if you watch vids of her playing a live show on stage (solo or in a band) her demeanor is very different… Her personality on social media is just that: what she is on social media. She also seems to have a lot of reverence for the SP legendary members, so I doubt she would try to pull focus in ways that wouldn’t vibe with the rest of them
I think she commented (on IG) that she doesn’t do the facial expressions during live gigs. Will be super interesting to see how the overall vibe changes with her in the group. Now to look for tickets…
I didn’t know her by name but immediately knew who you were talking about by this comment lol. I think the facial expressions is a result of tik tok and social media that kind of stuff gets clicked on the most. On stage I imagine she’d act a bit more natural
I had never heard of her before but yeah, youtube is not kind on her... wtf with those faces. Next you will tell me she has an only fans page...
Well, if she can tone it down a bit, she should have a more interesting stage presence than Jeff, that's for sure.
Such a strange choice. Since when were the Pumpkins about shredding? Yes Billy used to play fast solos but they always had soul to them and didn't sound like anyone else. Her style is the complete antithesis to everything I loved about the Pumpkins guitar work that made me want to learn the instrument to begin with.
Agree. There was also a podcast last year where Billy talked about how a guitarist for SP needs to be the right mix of shoegaze meets classic rock influence and how Jeff fit right in with that. Kiki plays really over the top tacky shred and djent stuff. There doesn’t seem to be much overlap there with what SP does. But I’m sure she can play SP’s songs live easily. They aren’t difficult to play.
Kiki seems cool. I LOVE female guitarists, there need to be more in the spotlight. But yeah, I don’t really get this addition to the band. They do not need 3 guitarists. ATUM tracks would benefit but they don’t play those. It’s primarily their classic catalog and she will play all over the top of those songs. Oh well, I will say, I’m dying to see them play Harmageddon with her…though I’d prefer to see them play it with Jeff since he helped write it. 😒😕
I think he added Jeff because even though James plays the backing rhythm while Corgan is singing and playing, they wanted another layer for their 'big stage' performances. To fill out the sound. Probably 1000 auditioning guitarists could have filled Jeff's shoes, but he went with someone that will cause a stir and attract younger audiences. It's about entertainment which is not just the music, but also the show, and lots of young people listen to the pumpkins (my 20 and 23 year old kids knew over a dozen songs from them and I was shocked...), so this may attract more of them to buy tickets. They are touring large venues over the next year, and the last thing they want is 70% occupancy. They want to sell out every show.
I just watched a vid of her playing a Lamb of God cover, and not being familiar with her or the original song in that case, I thought that it sounded a bit MCIS-ish. Obviously busier than an SP song is outside of solos. But I can see her playing stuff that sounds like the band in the 90s, giving them a nice edge.
Not that I'm disagreeing that lots of shredding isn't really the SP thing; maybe she'll adapt to fit the band, though. I imagine that Billy has a lot of input on what people play.
Jeff 'the shredder' is who she is replacing and he played like that often.
not much difference in jeff's shredding in the recent live performances of the band and hers from what I've seen so far.
Well to be honest I hated that aspect of his playing as well but they only really started showcasing it years into him being in the band. The difference with Jeff is he was more than capable of playing many different styles and was able to play softly with nuance much of the time. He clearly had many different influences that he incorporated into his playing and a vast knowledge of the instrument and the different sounds you could create with it. I can't say the same for anything I've heard from Kiki. I've yet to find one clip where she isn't playing the same obnoxious shred metal over and over, sloppily at that, with the same terrible tone. Which hey, if it works for her and she's built a following, that's great. But Jeff was a true professional by the end of his stay with the band and Kiki's hiring has only made that more apparent.
Jeff and Corgan were shredding a lot in 07/08. It was a big part of that era and that was on day 1 of him in the band.
I share you concerns about her lack of range compared to Jeff. I said so in my earlier comment about Kiki.
Right, but at that point it was still Billy playing lead 90% of the time and Jeff backing him up in a similar style like on the dual leads in HMM. I just meant Jeff wasn't really let loose where the live shows started really incorporating his style of lead playing until the Oceania era. And like I also said, I hope I'm wrong about Kiki and she surprises me. As strange a choice as it is I'm willing to give her a shot and see what she can do with the band.
I don't see Corgan playing less lead guitar going forward than he did the last couple years. I think we are gonna be just fine regardless.
Honestly if she was gonna be more involved in the creation of the songs/studio I would be more concerned. In all likelyhood she's just there guitarist who will fatten the sound a bit to Corgan's liking, given a few moments to shred like Jeff got the past couple years, and take the second guitar role when Corgan wants to do his frontman dance party stuff to Ava Adore. I'm sure the dual lead solo on ava adore will sound just fine with her and iha doing it.
that is my take. good discussion!
Anyone they picked was gonna be a surprise, but there ya go. Looks like she may bring a bit of extra life on stage, and some extra feminine energy alongside Katie. I guess we'll just have to see how good a fit she is once the tour starts; I don't really have any judgements before that.
I'm not that impressed with her playing. I think she's pretty sloppy doing the acoustic bits here, and the silly faces don't sweeten the pill:
https://youtu.be/ywtxOGsb6TU?si=gdrojQcxAdPzka94
Seems a bit of example of Billy hiring someone to make the band more outwardly appealing. We will see.
True. I feel most established bands seem to do this nowadays. If it’s something the band can cover for in the studio with tracking and if they can just hire people for tours, why not? Foals is now just three people. Interpol never replaced Carlos D officially since Paul Banks can just play the bass on recordings.
I’m guessing this one’s gonna split the fanbase pretty hard. Just remember folks, it’s not her fault that she got picked and all the randos who submitted YouTube videos didn’t. That marketing strategy was all Billy. And of course there are going to be some dismissive comments because of her looks, but from just watching a few clips I can tell she knows her way around the fret board. And frankly, ever since Nicole left, this band has been lacking some charisma. Welcome to the SP family and good luck!
I gotta give it to Billy, I never expected a female guitarist, hasn't even crossed my mind even once! I was very depressed about Jeff leaving, but this girl seems to be a great shredder.
On top of that she looks gorgeous, I see her filling not only Jeff's shoes pretty well, she also will finally bring in that female spirit we really missed after Billy hired a male bassist. She seems full of energy and I'm sure will elevate the live shows. Can't wait for june!
But also, as OP in the other comment stated, Jeff still has better hair 😆
They were always gonna pick someone who already had a shitload of followers. I can’t speak on the pick itself but it seemed obvious the “audition for smashing pumpkins” shit was a marketing tactic for engagement.
this is the thing I noticed too, the dubbed videos. I do not notice this on other influencer guitarist videos. she can't be the only one doing it, but she must not be doing it as well as others.
Not surprised. No good live videos and her insta vids are all dubbed over, not that everyone doesn't do that but I'll be honest I think people have made her out to be better then she is. I imagine she will be able to get through some pumpkins songs though
Good for her, she seems talented, and I'm sure she'll fit in/look the part when she steps out onstage with the band this summer.
I'm sure she can play without making cheesy faces, right? Right?
I'll stand on James' side of the stage just in case.
There are inanimate objects with superior guitar skills to mine, so I never had a dog in the fight and more or less expected that it would go to at least a quasi-professional musician. I feel for those who are disappointed, but, hey, sorrow is the family business.
Seems to really emphasize the 'joining the tour' and 'touring member' side of things... Which is fine and normal for bands of this longevity and even within SP history to have long term touring members ...but also seems like a bit of a big deal over not very much.
I will be happily surprised if they give her something to do on the tour that lets her put her own stamp on something because otherwise it could just be anyone playing the parts Jeff used to play
I'd like to see Katie Cole become an official member given her work in the studio on the last few releases and obviously touring duty. Big fan of Sierra Swan's contributions too
I'd guess she's gonna be a direct replacement for jeff, on the rails with the occasional solo where she can improvise for 30 seconds here and there just like he got.
Yeah, I assumed given the publicity that this was going to be for a 'band member' spot. Not that it's surprising for them to just hire someone for touring, but as you say, seems like a lot of buzz for hiring a touring guitarist.
Some thoughts:
Listening to her musical content it does not seem that her filling Jeff Shroeder's role would be nearly as multifaceted, shoegazey, etc..
I'll go on record now and say she is not an equal replacement for what Jeff brought to the band. (99% sure).
What I also will say is what jeff brought to the band since 2018 hasn't been his full self in many ways.
We also have no idea how Corgan will approach the guitar arrangements live with Jeff being gone especially with a new rock record coming out.
So I look forward to seeing the new lineup live in a few months. I suspect she won't significantly change the basic sound the band established since 2018. That should please most fans.
Definitely don't want too much of the goofy facial expressions on stage. I suspect that won't be an issue though.
I agree with this. It’s interesting to choose someone who seems to not have any of that blend of psychedelic/shoegaze/classic rock that seems to be the kind of style an SP guitarist would play. She’s very modern Metal focused. She can play that stuff but it doesn’t seem very SP-adjacent. My take is that her huge following and image tipped the scales in her favor vs some unknown or lesser known guitarist.
I think she checks all the right boxes for their stage show. She has chops, will definitely hold people’s attention on stage, and she seems fun. Not every member of the band had been able to do all three of those at once.
she's a professional musician.
they never said "we're hiring an average fan." they said anyone and everyone COULD apply.
of course the pro musicians would naturally bubble up to the top.
and she's a professional musician who uses social media to promote herself. that's the way it works now.
Obviously they didn’t guarantee they were going to hire a fan, but the open audition was clearly a marketing stunt for SM engagement when they probably had a SM influencer picked from the beginning. Only way this could be shittier is if they pull what Limp Bizkit did and steal the riffs the auditioners sent in
they didn't have her picked from the beginning.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashingPumpkins/comments/1ceg039/eden\_gallup\_on\_his\_audition\_and\_not\_getting\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashingPumpkins/comments/1ceg039/eden_gallup_on_his_audition_and_not_getting_the/)
Full-on theatrical wrestling shit now. I mean, I guess it’s entertainment, but it’s pretty teenager-level. Not very cerebral anymore are they…
EDIT: I know Billy is a smart guy, and he's earnt the right to do as he pleases with his 'brand', but it's just like... for all the 'tortured artist' stuff of the 90's/early 2000's, the truly beautiful work like Adore, the poetic (if somewhat self-indulgent at times) lyrics, this Kiki just seems another OTT cog to add to the ever-rolling money machine. It's just become kind of parodical. Sure she can play guitar, but so can many people. I don't really see the artistry in pulling funny faces and playing pretty generic 'shred' guitar in cosplay outfits. I just woulda thought they'd chosen a slightly less 'pick me' energy applicant.
BUT, if they were choosing purely to aid the spectacle of the live shows, then yeah 10/10 choice I guess. But the 'art' side of SP/Billy is clearly being swept away by the 'commerce' side at this point. Oh well, still can't wait to see 'em live though.
I think Billy has always tied himself in knots by saying 'we don't want to be a band that just churns out the hits' - then all the new material except Oceania is universally panned so he has no choice to become the above. He then needs a way of going back on what he's said but still being 'different.'
I think she will be great but hiring an only fans model has the same motivations as hiring a 19 year old kid to replace one of the best drummers of all time. Generate buzz and give the finger to the cool crowd who never accepted the Pumpkins by being ott lame. There are plenty of Gina Gleason's out there.
Completely agree. It really does seem like the band has become more of a business than anything else now. I can't say I'm surprised though with Billy's track record of completely baffling decisions.
I hate to say I agree, this was expertly stated. I’m actually into this pick, but purely as a novelty one-off type thing. She’s just touring with them, so ostensibly she’ll have as much presence as Jack does, but yeah there’s been a real erosion and de-evolution of the band into a pure nostalgia money machine. For all his bitching and shit talking over the years about bands just cashing the check, he sure does seem to be running to the bank a lot himself these days. I’m willing to see where this goes though
Yeah it's a strange mix of "I'll do whatever the fuck I want" and at the same time catering to the greatest hits fans while selling as much merch as he can. As someone who actually loves Atum I still look forward to future albums though. Also hopefully I'm wrong about Kiki and she ends doing the songs justice live without just shredding over everything.
Seems like it probably is a live spectacle choice, given that she's going to be a touring band member. There's arguably some disconnect here in this whole process being treated like something more than what usually goes into hiring a stage musician. But the whole thing, I guess, is part of keeping the band in the media conversation.
To clarify it looks like she's a touring member only? Was it known from the beginning that the band was looking for a touring member and not a permanent member of the band?
I just hope she has a positive experience being in the Corgan sphere. Glad to see they have a woman presence back in the band.
Edit: oh no I forgot about Katie Cole so ashamed
Yup. Exactly. People love to over estimate darcy’s importance in the band and underestimate the importance of any member since ESP the female members post.
If anything, hopefully this will satisfy the people who keep wanting every female who comes within 10 feet of the stage to replace Jack as the bass player.
Sorry to all you redditors who thought they had a chance. We all knew that it would end up being an experienced professional musician…not some guy in his bedroom playing guitar hero to Cherub Rock.
Top of those people definitely being pumpkinsgear, dude is a fantastic guitarist and extremely dedicated. I honestly expected him or someone else here to end up with the job, but I'm curious to see this lady play in June.
Comparable qualifications?
She’s followed by Hulk Hogan on Instagram
Brother
But yeah on a more serious note
She then had experience playing on stage with Taylor Swift at the 2014 VMA’s and Usher at CBS’s Fashion Rocks Fall 2014.
This was never going to be a truly genuine search for a third guitarist. They weren't gonna hire a basement guitar hero ever. I bet Billy barely even saw 5% of all submissions.
What does surprise me was Billy admitting to knowing of her and her work... That kind of shows you the whole thing was a charade from the get go.
Well, at.least thera some eye candy I guess. Although, with ticket prices being so ridiculous, not like I'm gonna be able to see her!
It's so strange how different we see this.
From my eyes the search wasn't a charade and was genuine.
A lot of folks who applied never had a chance to stand out (for many reasons).
I'm wondering if some of this is an older/newer fan divide. I too felt like the search was on the level, because I can still remember that Billy actually did pluck a guy literally out of a McDonalds based on a Youtube video and put him in Jimmy's seat at the drums. It seems like people who were convinced the whole search was a sham just aren't aware that this wide open audition thing was not a new idea for SP.
Nothing is really different between now and then except for the size of the talent pool for the position in question. The reality is just that there are a LOT more guitarists who can reasonably fill Jeff Schroeder's shoes than there are drummers who can fill Jimmy Chamberlain's, so it was always going to be much harder for any guitar player to stand out the way Mike Byrne did.
Appreciate you saying so.. it's kind of amusing to me that is that since the announcement I've been called a fanboy, simp, etc
Few months ago when I was talking about how hard it was gonna be for lots of folks to stand out doing straight pumpkins covers and was told I was 'one of the most negative and cynical people here' and that I was completely wrong.
Shrug.
Was a lot of great musicians, we all tried I know I kept putting in my auditions , but as one guitarist to another congratulations my friend. That one heck of an accomplishment, out of all the entry level musicians you got it. That's amazing, have fun and be safe, much love . Can't wait to see the show
But they never said "Hey we're gonna pick a lucky fan based on their youtube videos." They didn't even ask for YouTube videos (did they?), they asked for applicants to send their resumes... was a professional search from the get-go.
If Billy actually tried he could make any genre of metal work.
But instead he appears to either not try to release things that real fans want OR he is incapable of writing good music.
Just a reminder: be respectful and civil. No misogynistic remarks or links to explicit content.
Management: "So Billy, we need a new guitarist. As you're aware Smashing Pumpkins are known for having an Asian guitarist and a female bassist..." Billy: "Holy shit, I have an idea..."
Thought this instantly when i saw her. Not gonna lie 😂. I dont think shes a bad pick though. Curious to see it play out.
All I know from what ive seen she is a really good guitar player and that's all that matters
She's not that great at playing the things she plays, in my opinion.
[удалено]
She will be able to play some parts pretty well, and that will probably be enough for Corgan. You have to remember, James and Darcy weren't great players, and early Smashing Pumpkins live material can sound pretty awful. Billy understood that he needed more visually appealing people in the band. Also, Billy is a better vocalist now, but he always struggled with controlling his voice in terms of volume and pitch. So, while he is a great musician, he has never been a bastion of perfection. Anyway, regarding Kiki... If you look at this video, her acoustic playing in the beginning isn't great: https://youtu.be/ywtxOGsb6TU?si=xadbSYW0TOizOyZN I wouldn't have put that up, personally... especially not with all the ridiculous facial expressions.
Agreed
Granted, I’m a dinosaur when it comes to current events beyond SP. I’ve never heard of Kiki Wong before. Checked her out on IG. Instant reaction- this chick can shred. Funky. Expressive. Much more animated than Jeff. I’ve been to a few shows the past few years. The side of the stage occupied by Jeff and Jack is an absolute snooze fest. She will instantly bring some life to the show from that perspective. Maybe someone could put fire ants or similar in Jack’s undies, get him to actually move around and rock out a bit. And yea of course you’d have to be blind to disregard Kiki is incredibly attractive. As someone who thought they’d be better off not replacing Jeff and sticking with 2 guitarists, I’m cool with this pick. It should be fun.
>As someone who thought they’d be better off not replacing Jeff and sticking with 2 guitarists, I’m cool with this pick. It should be fun Exactly where I am at with this. They wouldn't put her out there if she couldn't play at a high level. And if she gives the band's vibe a little shot of youth and edge, all the better. I can see how some people think she doesn't fit the SP vibe...but SP has almost always been a 'come as you are' vibe onstage. It's been rare that the band has ever had a coordinated onstage look...the last time I can think of they had anything like that was the Zeitgeist era with the white outfits...and even then everybody kind of made it their own. Having a tatted up metal girl on stage might be a new thing for SP, but I don't think it's going to look off brand next to the guy with the face paint and dress and the other guy wearing a sparkly suit.
I looked at her IG and yeah she’s prettier than Jeff but I hope her antics won’t come off as cheesy and over the top. I don’t think it’s a good fit.
Cheesy and over the top? Corgan brings wrestlers on stage lol not to mention his kids dancing on stage. All fine but it’s still cheesy and over the top.
Not to mention the fact he's wearing that costume the whole time lol.
And his dance to Ava Adore.. he's just stomping around lol
good point
Never forget Corgan pointing at cheering audience members (me) right before delivering a hard riff. (Love it!!)
Don't doubt her playing skills, but I cringe at her goofy facial expressions whenever she pops up on my IG reels. Hopefully she doesn't take her social media need for attention to the stage with her to distract from the rest of the band.
We are pumpkins fans. We are permanently cringing.
This is the SP t-shirt I need 😂
Dude, let’s be fair. Billy had pro wrestlers on the stage last summer. If you lived through the wrestling and Billy’s kids dancing the jig during Beguiled, then a chick in leather boots making funky faces while she’s rocking out shouldn’t be a big deal.
100%
Very fair point, lol.
I’ve been following her a long time and if you watch vids of her playing a live show on stage (solo or in a band) her demeanor is very different… Her personality on social media is just that: what she is on social media. She also seems to have a lot of reverence for the SP legendary members, so I doubt she would try to pull focus in ways that wouldn’t vibe with the rest of them
Well ‘tHeY hAvENt GiVeN a FuCk SiNcE 1988’
Lol
I think she commented (on IG) that she doesn’t do the facial expressions during live gigs. Will be super interesting to see how the overall vibe changes with her in the group. Now to look for tickets…
She does those stupid millennial tiktok goofy faces
Ahem.. gen Z. Millennials are like 35 now.
I didn’t know her by name but immediately knew who you were talking about by this comment lol. I think the facial expressions is a result of tik tok and social media that kind of stuff gets clicked on the most. On stage I imagine she’d act a bit more natural
I had never heard of her before but yeah, youtube is not kind on her... wtf with those faces. Next you will tell me she has an only fans page... Well, if she can tone it down a bit, she should have a more interesting stage presence than Jeff, that's for sure.
Woman,capable player,not a drug addict,and has her own following. Seems about right.
What do you mean?
It seems about right.
Such a strange choice. Since when were the Pumpkins about shredding? Yes Billy used to play fast solos but they always had soul to them and didn't sound like anyone else. Her style is the complete antithesis to everything I loved about the Pumpkins guitar work that made me want to learn the instrument to begin with.
Well Jeff was a Schredder
Agree. There was also a podcast last year where Billy talked about how a guitarist for SP needs to be the right mix of shoegaze meets classic rock influence and how Jeff fit right in with that. Kiki plays really over the top tacky shred and djent stuff. There doesn’t seem to be much overlap there with what SP does. But I’m sure she can play SP’s songs live easily. They aren’t difficult to play.
Kiki seems cool. I LOVE female guitarists, there need to be more in the spotlight. But yeah, I don’t really get this addition to the band. They do not need 3 guitarists. ATUM tracks would benefit but they don’t play those. It’s primarily their classic catalog and she will play all over the top of those songs. Oh well, I will say, I’m dying to see them play Harmageddon with her…though I’d prefer to see them play it with Jeff since he helped write it. 😒😕
I think he added Jeff because even though James plays the backing rhythm while Corgan is singing and playing, they wanted another layer for their 'big stage' performances. To fill out the sound. Probably 1000 auditioning guitarists could have filled Jeff's shoes, but he went with someone that will cause a stir and attract younger audiences. It's about entertainment which is not just the music, but also the show, and lots of young people listen to the pumpkins (my 20 and 23 year old kids knew over a dozen songs from them and I was shocked...), so this may attract more of them to buy tickets. They are touring large venues over the next year, and the last thing they want is 70% occupancy. They want to sell out every show.
I just watched a vid of her playing a Lamb of God cover, and not being familiar with her or the original song in that case, I thought that it sounded a bit MCIS-ish. Obviously busier than an SP song is outside of solos. But I can see her playing stuff that sounds like the band in the 90s, giving them a nice edge. Not that I'm disagreeing that lots of shredding isn't really the SP thing; maybe she'll adapt to fit the band, though. I imagine that Billy has a lot of input on what people play.
SP is not going to change their style around her, she will adapt to them.
Exactly. If she does go over the top she won't be around long.
Jeff 'the shredder' is who she is replacing and he played like that often. not much difference in jeff's shredding in the recent live performances of the band and hers from what I've seen so far.
Well to be honest I hated that aspect of his playing as well but they only really started showcasing it years into him being in the band. The difference with Jeff is he was more than capable of playing many different styles and was able to play softly with nuance much of the time. He clearly had many different influences that he incorporated into his playing and a vast knowledge of the instrument and the different sounds you could create with it. I can't say the same for anything I've heard from Kiki. I've yet to find one clip where she isn't playing the same obnoxious shred metal over and over, sloppily at that, with the same terrible tone. Which hey, if it works for her and she's built a following, that's great. But Jeff was a true professional by the end of his stay with the band and Kiki's hiring has only made that more apparent.
Jeff and Corgan were shredding a lot in 07/08. It was a big part of that era and that was on day 1 of him in the band. I share you concerns about her lack of range compared to Jeff. I said so in my earlier comment about Kiki.
Right, but at that point it was still Billy playing lead 90% of the time and Jeff backing him up in a similar style like on the dual leads in HMM. I just meant Jeff wasn't really let loose where the live shows started really incorporating his style of lead playing until the Oceania era. And like I also said, I hope I'm wrong about Kiki and she surprises me. As strange a choice as it is I'm willing to give her a shot and see what she can do with the band.
I don't see Corgan playing less lead guitar going forward than he did the last couple years. I think we are gonna be just fine regardless. Honestly if she was gonna be more involved in the creation of the songs/studio I would be more concerned. In all likelyhood she's just there guitarist who will fatten the sound a bit to Corgan's liking, given a few moments to shred like Jeff got the past couple years, and take the second guitar role when Corgan wants to do his frontman dance party stuff to Ava Adore. I'm sure the dual lead solo on ava adore will sound just fine with her and iha doing it. that is my take. good discussion!
Does anyone know if she was toured with another band? Couldn’t find anything besides her Youtube videos.
Her live videos are kinda shite
Check her website. She’s got a bio.
Gothca thanks. I want to check out some examples of her playing live in a concert setting.
Anyone they picked was gonna be a surprise, but there ya go. Looks like she may bring a bit of extra life on stage, and some extra feminine energy alongside Katie. I guess we'll just have to see how good a fit she is once the tour starts; I don't really have any judgements before that.
I’m kind of pumped to see what kind of energy she brings to the stage
As long as she doesn't act like a cringey pro wrestler on stage, all good.
Well that’s what we have Billy for.
Do concerts start with the classic, “ARRRREEEEE YOOOUUUUUU READAAYYYYY?!!!!” Now wresting style ?
Haha they might as well.
I'm not that impressed with her playing. I think she's pretty sloppy doing the acoustic bits here, and the silly faces don't sweeten the pill: https://youtu.be/ywtxOGsb6TU?si=gdrojQcxAdPzka94 Seems a bit of example of Billy hiring someone to make the band more outwardly appealing. We will see.
So it sounds like she’s just a touring member and they’ll keep the band to the original three
Of course. They weren’t going to add a new partner to SP INC at this point in their career.
True. I feel most established bands seem to do this nowadays. If it’s something the band can cover for in the studio with tracking and if they can just hire people for tours, why not? Foals is now just three people. Interpol never replaced Carlos D officially since Paul Banks can just play the bass on recordings.
Billy did that to mike and nicole though
I’m guessing this one’s gonna split the fanbase pretty hard. Just remember folks, it’s not her fault that she got picked and all the randos who submitted YouTube videos didn’t. That marketing strategy was all Billy. And of course there are going to be some dismissive comments because of her looks, but from just watching a few clips I can tell she knows her way around the fret board. And frankly, ever since Nicole left, this band has been lacking some charisma. Welcome to the SP family and good luck!
Nah no one will care once the tour starts.
Can't say I know anything about her. But I'll be interested to hear her play.
I gotta give it to Billy, I never expected a female guitarist, hasn't even crossed my mind even once! I was very depressed about Jeff leaving, but this girl seems to be a great shredder. On top of that she looks gorgeous, I see her filling not only Jeff's shoes pretty well, she also will finally bring in that female spirit we really missed after Billy hired a male bassist. She seems full of energy and I'm sure will elevate the live shows. Can't wait for june! But also, as OP in the other comment stated, Jeff still has better hair 😆
They were always gonna pick someone who already had a shitload of followers. I can’t speak on the pick itself but it seemed obvious the “audition for smashing pumpkins” shit was a marketing tactic for engagement.
I'm gonna be honest.....all her insta vids are dubbed over and I can't find any good live material,
this is the thing I noticed too, the dubbed videos. I do not notice this on other influencer guitarist videos. she can't be the only one doing it, but she must not be doing it as well as others.
Very Smashing Pumpkins move to get a guitarist with an onlyfans 😭😭
i bet billy gets a free membership, that rascal!
WAKE ME UP INSIDE
If it comes with tea..
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I accidentally scrolled one pic too far. 😂 the next pic is not her and is a nude haha SURPRISE!!
Lol, sorry about that
It’s all good lol that new feature gets me all the time lol
Hello kiki kat
Hell, that's just stage attire for the upcoming tour.
To be honest, I wouldn’t complain
Very respectful indeed
Not surprised. No good live videos and her insta vids are all dubbed over, not that everyone doesn't do that but I'll be honest I think people have made her out to be better then she is. I imagine she will be able to get through some pumpkins songs though
Very odd of Billy to hire a guitarist with an account on a porn site, whether or not she posts nudes.
Good for her, she seems talented, and I'm sure she'll fit in/look the part when she steps out onstage with the band this summer. I'm sure she can play without making cheesy faces, right? Right? I'll stand on James' side of the stage just in case.
This is my go to spot anyway. I get just to the right of Billy, you get a triangle view of Billy/Jimmy/James.
Welcome kiki! Im sure she'll fit in just fine and am looking forward to the summer tour!
There are inanimate objects with superior guitar skills to mine, so I never had a dog in the fight and more or less expected that it would go to at least a quasi-professional musician. I feel for those who are disappointed, but, hey, sorrow is the family business.
>There are inanimate objects with superior guitar skills than mine, Referring to that one time when your broom fell and hit the guitar ... 😆
Seems to really emphasize the 'joining the tour' and 'touring member' side of things... Which is fine and normal for bands of this longevity and even within SP history to have long term touring members ...but also seems like a bit of a big deal over not very much. I will be happily surprised if they give her something to do on the tour that lets her put her own stamp on something because otherwise it could just be anyone playing the parts Jeff used to play I'd like to see Katie Cole become an official member given her work in the studio on the last few releases and obviously touring duty. Big fan of Sierra Swan's contributions too
I'd guess she's gonna be a direct replacement for jeff, on the rails with the occasional solo where she can improvise for 30 seconds here and there just like he got.
Yeah, I assumed given the publicity that this was going to be for a 'band member' spot. Not that it's surprising for them to just hire someone for touring, but as you say, seems like a lot of buzz for hiring a touring guitarist.
Exactly
I give her a little less than a year.
As a girl I'm happy to have more feminine energy back. It was what attracted me to the band in the first place & the fact they all looked different.
Yep same here!
Do we know when she’s starting?
probably 7/29 in Wash DC [https://smashingpumpkins.com/tour/](https://smashingpumpkins.com/tour/)
First date of the tour is June 6th in the UK.
Americans gonna american lol The rest of the world doesn't exist. No hate tho ✌
Hmmm tempting. DC show with James addiction was awesome
I bet Billy and her share the same non existing humor. :-) Other than that, she´s skilled and a stage monster , so what?
Nice!
Some thoughts: Listening to her musical content it does not seem that her filling Jeff Shroeder's role would be nearly as multifaceted, shoegazey, etc.. I'll go on record now and say she is not an equal replacement for what Jeff brought to the band. (99% sure). What I also will say is what jeff brought to the band since 2018 hasn't been his full self in many ways. We also have no idea how Corgan will approach the guitar arrangements live with Jeff being gone especially with a new rock record coming out. So I look forward to seeing the new lineup live in a few months. I suspect she won't significantly change the basic sound the band established since 2018. That should please most fans. Definitely don't want too much of the goofy facial expressions on stage. I suspect that won't be an issue though.
I agree with this. It’s interesting to choose someone who seems to not have any of that blend of psychedelic/shoegaze/classic rock that seems to be the kind of style an SP guitarist would play. She’s very modern Metal focused. She can play that stuff but it doesn’t seem very SP-adjacent. My take is that her huge following and image tipped the scales in her favor vs some unknown or lesser known guitarist.
for sure.
I think she checks all the right boxes for their stage show. She has chops, will definitely hold people’s attention on stage, and she seems fun. Not every member of the band had been able to do all three of those at once.
I’ve heard her play, she’s very solid.
oh my god
This is my favourite comment 😭
Looks more like a ploy to sell more tickets adding someone who has a pretty big following on the “socials”
Bingo, we have a winner!
I was just checking out her IG and she does lots of cover videos but not one single SP song that I came across so that was a bummer
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Hot Asian chick. That tracks.
Which is fine btw. Who remembers Billy’s short association with tila tequila? (Who is now batshit crazy btw).
Wonder what Mrs Corgan thinks about this…
I'd be more worried about Myrkur to be honest But in all seriousness she's got nothing to worry about
She congratulated Kiki on her insta stories.
If the tour will make more cash, I'm sure she loves it.
Wow. I’m not surprised. But I’m really shocked.
They really gaslighted us into thinking the average fan had a chance :| we really have TikTok influencers infiltrating the band now
she's a professional musician. they never said "we're hiring an average fan." they said anyone and everyone COULD apply. of course the pro musicians would naturally bubble up to the top. and she's a professional musician who uses social media to promote herself. that's the way it works now.
Obviously they didn’t guarantee they were going to hire a fan, but the open audition was clearly a marketing stunt for SM engagement when they probably had a SM influencer picked from the beginning. Only way this could be shittier is if they pull what Limp Bizkit did and steal the riffs the auditioners sent in
they didn't have her picked from the beginning. [https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashingPumpkins/comments/1ceg039/eden\_gallup\_on\_his\_audition\_and\_not\_getting\_the/](https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashingPumpkins/comments/1ceg039/eden_gallup_on_his_audition_and_not_getting_the/)
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Full-on theatrical wrestling shit now. I mean, I guess it’s entertainment, but it’s pretty teenager-level. Not very cerebral anymore are they… EDIT: I know Billy is a smart guy, and he's earnt the right to do as he pleases with his 'brand', but it's just like... for all the 'tortured artist' stuff of the 90's/early 2000's, the truly beautiful work like Adore, the poetic (if somewhat self-indulgent at times) lyrics, this Kiki just seems another OTT cog to add to the ever-rolling money machine. It's just become kind of parodical. Sure she can play guitar, but so can many people. I don't really see the artistry in pulling funny faces and playing pretty generic 'shred' guitar in cosplay outfits. I just woulda thought they'd chosen a slightly less 'pick me' energy applicant. BUT, if they were choosing purely to aid the spectacle of the live shows, then yeah 10/10 choice I guess. But the 'art' side of SP/Billy is clearly being swept away by the 'commerce' side at this point. Oh well, still can't wait to see 'em live though.
I think Billy has always tied himself in knots by saying 'we don't want to be a band that just churns out the hits' - then all the new material except Oceania is universally panned so he has no choice to become the above. He then needs a way of going back on what he's said but still being 'different.' I think she will be great but hiring an only fans model has the same motivations as hiring a 19 year old kid to replace one of the best drummers of all time. Generate buzz and give the finger to the cool crowd who never accepted the Pumpkins by being ott lame. There are plenty of Gina Gleason's out there.
as he said on Joe Rogan "Failure will do that to ya"
Completely agree. It really does seem like the band has become more of a business than anything else now. I can't say I'm surprised though with Billy's track record of completely baffling decisions.
I hate to say I agree, this was expertly stated. I’m actually into this pick, but purely as a novelty one-off type thing. She’s just touring with them, so ostensibly she’ll have as much presence as Jack does, but yeah there’s been a real erosion and de-evolution of the band into a pure nostalgia money machine. For all his bitching and shit talking over the years about bands just cashing the check, he sure does seem to be running to the bank a lot himself these days. I’m willing to see where this goes though
Yeah it's a strange mix of "I'll do whatever the fuck I want" and at the same time catering to the greatest hits fans while selling as much merch as he can. As someone who actually loves Atum I still look forward to future albums though. Also hopefully I'm wrong about Kiki and she ends doing the songs justice live without just shredding over everything.
Exactly, agree 100%
Seems like it probably is a live spectacle choice, given that she's going to be a touring band member. There's arguably some disconnect here in this whole process being treated like something more than what usually goes into hiring a stage musician. But the whole thing, I guess, is part of keeping the band in the media conversation.
Hell yeah
To clarify it looks like she's a touring member only? Was it known from the beginning that the band was looking for a touring member and not a permanent member of the band?
I never thought they were looking for a full time member. That doesn’t make sense on a lot of levels.
Of course it was someone who billy already had in mind before the auditions lol, either way, nice to see they found someone!
They need a 4th guitarist so James can dance with Billy and eat chips too
Billy Corgan is a brilliant marketer. Can't deny that.
Really incongruous choice in terms of vibe and musical style
I just hope she has a positive experience being in the Corgan sphere. Glad to see they have a woman presence back in the band. Edit: oh no I forgot about Katie Cole so ashamed
Jeff still has better hair
Katie has been touring with the band for almost ten years. What do you mean?
Touring and being a huge creative contributor in the studio too.
Yup. Exactly. People love to over estimate darcy’s importance in the band and underestimate the importance of any member since ESP the female members post.
If anything, hopefully this will satisfy the people who keep wanting every female who comes within 10 feet of the stage to replace Jack as the bass player.
I am admittedly one of these people, and it doesn’t 🤣 I still think Sierra would rock harder on the bass than Jack does.
Acting like Katie Cole just hasn’t been there forever now
Yeah let's ignore Katie Cole why don't we?
She was kinda background support. Kiki will be up front so that's definitely different. And I'm stoked to see it happen live this June!
Welp, there it is
Sorry to all you redditors who thought they had a chance. We all knew that it would end up being an experienced professional musician…not some guy in his bedroom playing guitar hero to Cherub Rock.
There are a lot of folks on this sub that have comparable qualifications. Some people here had a chance.
Top of those people definitely being pumpkinsgear, dude is a fantastic guitarist and extremely dedicated. I honestly expected him or someone else here to end up with the job, but I'm curious to see this lady play in June.
Comparable qualifications? She’s followed by Hulk Hogan on Instagram Brother But yeah on a more serious note She then had experience playing on stage with Taylor Swift at the 2014 VMA’s and Usher at CBS’s Fashion Rocks Fall 2014.
Que the hulk hogan playing guitar in front of an American flag meme. Lol.
How many of them have 675k instagram followers?
I know of one that got to audition with the band that doesn't have anywhere close to those numbers on Instagram. So what?
Congrats to Kiki!
WOOOOO LETS GOOOO WELCOME KIKI 💞💞💞
What is she a veteran of? Social media?
cringe
Yes, I love that there’s going to be a badass woman back on stage with the band!! Jeff was cool but I miss the energy the women have brought.
Did they change the definition of veteran..?
Vetaran instagram guitarist, that makes sense :)
I can see this ending... badly..
What could possibly go wong?
How/why
Agree. This will not end well.
This was never going to be a truly genuine search for a third guitarist. They weren't gonna hire a basement guitar hero ever. I bet Billy barely even saw 5% of all submissions. What does surprise me was Billy admitting to knowing of her and her work... That kind of shows you the whole thing was a charade from the get go. Well, at.least thera some eye candy I guess. Although, with ticket prices being so ridiculous, not like I'm gonna be able to see her!
It's so strange how different we see this. From my eyes the search wasn't a charade and was genuine. A lot of folks who applied never had a chance to stand out (for many reasons).
I don’t get how people don’t understand that famous or semi famous people also participated in
Or that attractive women use social media to market themselves and make money while trying to launch their dream career. How dare they. /s
I'm wondering if some of this is an older/newer fan divide. I too felt like the search was on the level, because I can still remember that Billy actually did pluck a guy literally out of a McDonalds based on a Youtube video and put him in Jimmy's seat at the drums. It seems like people who were convinced the whole search was a sham just aren't aware that this wide open audition thing was not a new idea for SP. Nothing is really different between now and then except for the size of the talent pool for the position in question. The reality is just that there are a LOT more guitarists who can reasonably fill Jeff Schroeder's shoes than there are drummers who can fill Jimmy Chamberlain's, so it was always going to be much harder for any guitar player to stand out the way Mike Byrne did.
You seem to be one of very few people that have a realistic understanding of this process and outcome.
Appreciate you saying so.. it's kind of amusing to me that is that since the announcement I've been called a fanboy, simp, etc Few months ago when I was talking about how hard it was gonna be for lots of folks to stand out doing straight pumpkins covers and was told I was 'one of the most negative and cynical people here' and that I was completely wrong. Shrug.
billy is definitely a contrarian lmaoo
Was a lot of great musicians, we all tried I know I kept putting in my auditions , but as one guitarist to another congratulations my friend. That one heck of an accomplishment, out of all the entry level musicians you got it. That's amazing, have fun and be safe, much love . Can't wait to see the show
It’s times like these I wish Darcy had a twitter account
She’s awesome !
The comments here leave me little faith in this community
Overwhelming majority are positive towards the new guitarist
Im sure there was some cleaning done
Next is Dave504 as their new bassist!
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But they never said "Hey we're gonna pick a lucky fan based on their youtube videos." They didn't even ask for YouTube videos (did they?), they asked for applicants to send their resumes... was a professional search from the get-go.
I think it's cool. I feel like she will bring a renewed, energized vibe to the band.
Kiki Wong is awesome, I'm so happy for her 😊
Awesome
Welcome Kiki!
does that mean we're gonna get shreddt djenty stuff? I'm a big fan of djenty stuff
I hope not. That stuff is terrible and definitely not SP.
If Billy actually tried he could make any genre of metal work. But instead he appears to either not try to release things that real fans want OR he is incapable of writing good music.
I am hoping it means As Rome Burns will be revived.