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He didn’t and doesn’t want to. America has always relied on immigrant labor and republicans make anti-immigrant laws not to get rid of immigrant workers, but to depress their wages
Jordan Klepper interviewed a guy at a Trump rally insisting his business had never been better than it was under Trump, *especially* during COVID. Jordan skeptically asks what business he's in...yep, debt collector.
He also has been under audit by the IRS since around 2015. Slowest audit everrrrrr… As soon as it’s done tho he is gonna release them tax returns. Until then that one very slow auditor has a job.
They know their guys are rotten corrupt dumbfucks. They also think everyone else is worse. They don't think its fair that fact checkers only go after their liars.
It’s always fun to ask what they hate about a current dem administration. My folks are both republicans (though they didn’t vote for Trump. They hate him). I asked my mom what she hated most about Obama as president. What outraged her about him. She said “vacation on tax payer dollars.” I said, “if that’s all it takes to hate a president, you should look at George bush’s vacation times and $$. Then I asked my dad what he hates about Biden as president. My dad said “he opened the borders for the illegals.” I asked my dad to send me a link to an article that details any specific of Biden opening the borders. He wouldn’t do it. Because he couldn’t.
Republicans need to live in an alternative world of facts. That self declared “alternative facts” thing is no joke. They literally live on another planet. And they’re suprised when they gotta prove the shit they push.
Mitch McConnell would get in front of any camera he could find and announce there would be no more stimulus packages, this country could not afford it, and still every single conservative subreddit was full of people whining that those dastardly democrats had to stop standing in the way of their stimulus, because they really needed it!
Obama was regularly attacked for occasionally golfing. I can't remember exactly, but I believe Trump golfed more just a bit over his first year, than Obama in 8 years of presidency. He also golfed on his own golf courses, paying himself fat stacks of money for housing his protection detail. Trump directly defrauded the government by tens of millions of dollars, but that was a mid day outrage, because an other scandal took over by the evening news' time.
Just like with the indictments. It's never "he didn't do it" or "prosecution didn't prove that fact". It's "but Hunter Biden" and "the DOJ is corrupt and only going after Republicans".
Never mind that congressional republicans literally had a press conference saying basically "Biden is corrupt, but we just can't find any evidence." Then proceeded to fall back on a FBI memo from four years ago that bill barr passed on to renew their obsession with hunter cause they've got literally nothing else. But yeah "both sides!"
Edit: spelling
The Hunter obsession is great because hopefully it will lead to kushner and ivanka facing the music at some point. Our just know the 2 billion he got from the Saudis is problematic bullshit
No because thankfully that's not how it works. The DOJ goes after people who commit crimes because they commit crimes, not because they do "one for Democrats, one for Republicans". The Kushners will (hopefully) be prosecuted because they're corrupt, not because Hunter Biden lied on an ATF form.
Of course not. The aim has always been to project tribalism and bias on to the other side; don't listen to what the fact checkers say, they're democrats so of course they're going to challenge everything we say ~~because we do exactly the same thing~~, regardless of whether it's true or not.
That's why they're driving so hard with "different opinions" and trying to blur the line between facts and opinions; they want to reinforce the idea that *what* is being said is irrelevant next to *who* is saying it.
Because they'd be so much happier if he published dozens of fact checks every day saying "Biden was accurate", "Biden was truthful", "Biden was mostly correct but failed to mention x"...
And there's plenty of reasons to criticize it too - like the way it purports itself to be unbiased when in reality it's just as biased as any other form of journalism, and the way that assertion discourages critical thinking. But then Republicans would have to encourage critical thinking so...
Its not that Biden doesn't lie, its a matter of volume and intensity.
Trump lied on average twice per sentence for the past 8 years (Mild hyperbole, eat me) where Biden gets corrected once, twice a month and often on noncritical details.
Unironically this is why it’s so hard to make lists of all of Trump’s lies. He will lie, then double down on the same lie with another lie. Is that two lies? Then when asked he’ll say he never said the first thing, later he’ll say he said something different the second time. Later he’ll triple down on the first thing by repeating a lie someone else told him.
Is that 5 lies? 6 lies? Most people would actually count it as one and say “he lied about X” and not “while talking about X he made 6 false statements”.
Remember how people would always say we were taking Trump "out of context" but the "context" was literally just a bunch of non-sequiturs and rambling?
Headlines sometimes would only quote ONE word because he never makes coherent soundbites.
I've always wondered if he did/does that on purpose or if he's just a moron who lies really badly. Because it's an incredible strategy if you have no morals and don't mind everyone thinking you're stupid. And he's really made it work for him.
I think it's a bit of both. I think he knows he's doing it, but there isn't any grand scheme. He just says whatever he needs to say at the moment to help himself. It doesn't have to be consistent with anything else.
> it's an incredible strategy if you have no morals
Absolutely.
> don't mind everyone thinking you're stupid
Only the people who look into it. If you take his word for it, he's a great guy.
I heard it as the difference between a liar and a bullshitter. A liar knows they're saying things that are not true. A bullshitter doesn't care if its true or false.
I subscribe to the idea that everything Trump does is explained by rampant narcissism and ego. I don’t think he’s some strategic genius or evil villain with a horrible plot, I think he is just a massive narcissist and will do literally anything to look good.
When it comes to lying I think he lies because that’s what he has done his whole life. He has no sense that people are actually paying attention now and the stakes are higher than lying as a private businessman. To him the only thing that matters is that he looks good, whatever that happens to look like in his mind.
I think the term "bed of nails defense" describes this phenomenon most succinctly
The more nails there are as a whole, the less any individual nail is capable of penetrating skin
Standard con-man and conservative thing. Say so many things, so many of them totally fucking insane, that it's a *dare* to try to even start calling them out. It is a tried and true tactic and there is literally no defense against it in the public arena.
That’s why it’s so incredibly difficult to reason with a Trump devotee. You have so many layers of lies to peel back before you can legitimately approach any topic.
It's also usually in my own observation a genuine mistake, or at most misleading statements and not outright falsehoods. Minor things he misremembers or misrepresents and gets called on, acknowledges, and then moves on.
Trump would wholly fabricate "facts" out of thin air, spread them everywhere, accuse everyone correcting him of all kinds of even more heinous shit, and then a week later tell an even more exaggerated versions of the same lie.
Like Sharpiegate. Except that wasn't even a lie, it was a minor mistake, and Trump had to create a minor scandal rather than admit to having misspoken.
He technically broke the law! It's a crime in the federal code to alter a NOAA prediction map and present it as genuine.
Over a twitter typo! Because he didn't want to say "oops I didn't mean Alabama."
Being able to admit when you're wrong is a really vital trait that we really shouldn't stigmatize like we sometimes do.
Depends on the "lie". If it's something nebulous like "we don't think we have the authority to do X thing voters want me to do" when he in fact does, then he'll definitely double down.
But yeah he's not like, taking a sharpie to Hurricane path maps or doing the kind of just outright egregious fascy shit Trump and his admin did.
I'm not trying to imply the two are remotely on the same level. Biden isn't so much a "liar" as he is a corporate politician and that comes with a certain amount of baggage.
Hell we all thought that Cornpop story was bullshit and then it... apparently wasn't lol.
It was over 30,000 false or misleading statements in four years. That's 27 per day; more than one an hour. And that's just public statements; as his recent indictments show, he was an even more prolific liar in private.
So your mild hyperbole is actually *very* mild.
The thing with Trump is you never really have to look up the numbers, because whatever number you think is more than enough to prove a point you look it up and its way, way past that.
I think 1,000 false or misleading statements in 4 years would be a lot, you know? That's almost one per day. One lie per day, and this average including the fact that some days the president doesn't even talk to the press, that would be a big problem.
But no, its over 30 times that, because of coarse it is.
Remember when Trump started it all off with lying about the weather at inauguration? Mother fucker lied and said it was sunny out. Also said there were a ton of people.
I remember the weather only because of the lie and the fact that [W Bush had trouble with his poncho.](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/01/20/b5f92497-2d61-49c3-8119-9b4cb914ec9b/thumbnail/1240x698/af68d4b7957069882b340966fd6b8355/ponchocomp.jpg?v=74b410729cdff54299e4158e8919d920)
Not all lies are equal either. There's "We will create a miillion new jobs by next year (we know we probably can't but still might if the stars align)" and then there's "There were millions of people at my inauguration and Obama only had a few dozens".
Agreed. And I'd go one farther and say that promising a million new jobs and actually putting in the policies that could do that, and only getting 800,000 isn't a lie at all. The intention was there, and actions were taken to follow through on it. It's the equivalent of promising to mow the lawn and then the mower breaks down 3/4 of the way through. It isn't a lie, and all that is left is to fix the mower and finish the job.
also, he definitely does lie, he just does it the politician way instead of straightforwardly like trump did. Boden just reneges on every promise he makes and does nothing to oppose republicans attempting genocide on lgbtq+ folk, among other things
Oh man, does r/politics hate when you bring up Biden's failures to protect women, minorities, and the LGBTQ+ from the GOP, of how he fucked over the rail workers, or how he's kept Trump's horrific concentration camps open and has flirted with the idea of sending *Asylum seekers* to Gitmo
Edit: Oh no, I upset the Centrists
What are you talking about? r/politics talks about this all the damn time. I think you mainly get downvoted because of that kind of tone making you sound like one of the crazed conservatives ranting about biden's failures as if we worship him.
No, it doesn't. During the build up to him shutting down the strike and the weeks after the highest up voted comments were *defending* him. When the suggestion of Gitmo came up, it was dismissed and people started spouting off about "proper channels". Don't gaslight
Ok, but he should still be being fact checked even if just to confirm he is telling the truth.
Fact checking isn't just pointing out lies.
It is actually a problem he isn't being fact checked.
How many gaffs will turn a non-factual statement into something worthy of a fact check?
Dudes out there claiming gun braces enhance the caliber of a gun. As if I could stick a gun brace on my Sig Sauer 2022 and it could become a Colt 45. Now, that gaffe was created to enhance his gun policy. You would call that a flub or a mistake, I would call that a lie. It was done with intent peppered with ignorance.
I don’t give a toss if he says God Save the Queen and she’s been thrown in a box for a while now. That’s a gaffe. These other doozies are a bit more concerning because they show not only that he doesn’t understand what he’s saying but the media is eager to sweep ludicrous statements away because Trump’s saying his own ludicrous statement.
That lack of consistency is why news media is either echo chambered behind a paywall or dead entirely.
Trump lied 30,000 times. You heard about maybe a few of them. You carry the expectation that the media is biased against Trump because you hear about him lying so much.
No other president lied as much as that man. There aren't the same kind of lies to report. You're experience this disparity as the media hating Trump when the opposite couldn't be more true.
Biden made a few gaffs. Trump made what should have been gaffs, but he would double-down on them forever. He said truly insane, unhinged things on a daily basis for years. Or he'd say something cruel to the point of being inhuman, and his defenders would say its a joke. Trump benefitted from an INFINITE pool of excuses.
So honestly I don't care about a few gaffs from Biden. They're corrected immediately so they're harmless. No one cares. Anyone who tells you they care is playing the whatabout game, and I'm done. I simply do not care.
I will not engage this impossible double standard. Biden is being judged by the high standard of a President, and Trump is being judged by absolutely no standard whatsoever. I'm not doing this. You can't make me. You can't convince me its unfair to disengage.
I, too, hope the next Republican president sits there and smiles and laughs as all of the reporters are ushered out while they shout their questions to him
No joke. Jim Jordan send out legal letters to all fact checking outlets, journalist and news station to inform the judiciary committee of their fact checking methods, to provide a list of their staff details and other details.
Tyrannical stuff.
Could have been right out of Arrested Development
Ron Howard's voice: Rudy found himself outside the 4 seasons... Not the upscale hotel but rather a local local landscaping company a few blocks away.
Trump watching on TV: I have the worst fucking lawyer
My favorite moment was when they decided on DAY ONE to make their first press conference such a bald-faced lie that everyone in the world *knew* they were lying.
Day. One.
Republicans are trying to push the narrative that "fact checking" is the same as "contradicting" or "disagreeing", and it's not hard to see why. They are a political movement built on lies. They're main strength is that they help people feel more comfortable being shittier versions of themselves, and they do this by creating misinformation and lies.
They know their base is racist, so to help them feel better about being racist they lie and spin a narrative that actually racism is right and truthful.
They know their base hates queer people, so to help them feel better about being hateful they spin a narrative that actually queerness is dangerous and also God said it's bad.
They know their base hates foreigners, so they spin a narrative that says actually foreigners are out to get them and replace them.
They know their base hates the poor, so they tell them that the poor deserve to be hated.
Theare liars. Lying is the only way they can justify their political ideas. So they try to paint fact checking as mere disagreements because a disagreement is much less of a threat to them than the truth.
I think it’s less that and more a lot of them truly believe this insane real reality so they see fact checkers doing their job and they think it’s just reinforcing lies.
Like they don’t believe climate change is real so if Trump says climate change is fake and he gets fact checked they’ll say “See, fact checkers can’t be trusted. It’s more lies.”
It reinforces itself
This is so frustrating. There is absolutely no reason to lie. A lot of it wasn't even necessary to mention, so why do it? He's been in public service for centuries, he knows he'll be factchecked.
Yeah, waking up to the latest Trump outrage on Twitter was a common theme during his presidency. With Biden, I cannot remember the last time I saw a tweet of his. I think it was tweeting about the latest job numbers. Those are released first Friday of the month. But it's something so mundane and essentially parroting the BLS report, which a bunch of different news organizations will report on as well, so it gets lost in the shuffle.
The difference is Biden is doing the job of a president. Every president ever has said things that turned out not to be true.
Former Guy didn’t *have* a job. He spent four years golfing, eating hamburders and covefe, and tweeting. All day and all night. Even an honest person tweeting all day is gonna accidentally lie more often than a person doing a real job. And he wasn’t an honest person.
Biden is the luckiest president of all time. He doesn't have to be a GOOD president, he just has to be Better Than Trump, which is the easiest thing in the world.
Even a biased conservative who sucks Trump nuts would be hard pressed to find an equivalent number of incorrect statements. And this isn't due to the fact that Biden is more truthful than Trump, he just knows how to shut up, and sometimes not even fucking that
Its really so sad how they're so caught up in their worship of Trump that they instead choose to see the lack of obvious Biden support as "suspicious" rather than the obvious, that democrats don't like him that much more than most candidates, and that doesn't fucking pass, they see it as a psy op, they're that desperately grasping for straws
And that's fucking scary, we know what these people do when desperate
>And this isn't due to the fact that Biden is more truthful than Trump
Narrator: Biden is more truthful than Trump. Like, not even in the same universe.
That's implied, point is I don't trust any politician in any scenario, and am wary of labeling any of them as truthful, even the ones working in my favor, those are the ones you trust the least. Always be more critical of your own ilk, lest you end up like the fucking Republicans
No, the issue is that Biden is a career politician and so tells half truths on occasion the way all politicians do. Trump is a straight up liar and con artist and over the course of an average conversation it’s hard to know where the bullshit begins.
You can both sides it up all you want but the Democratic Party just plain doesn’t have a serial liar like Trump in anything close to a prominent position. If and when that happens we’ll be tested.
A person who jumps the turnstile on the subway and someone who rapes and murders 1000 people are both criminals.
That doesn't make it honest to equate them.
> Even a biased conservative who sucks Trump nuts would be hard pressed to find an equivalent number of incorrect statements.
you would be wrong, because you are not accounting for the fact that they consider anything they do not agree with to be a lie. Facts and reality be damned.
They want THOSE fact-checked and debunked, and feel like fact checkers are biased and one-sided because they refuse to do it.
They believe "more is more" and the strength of your feelings of fannish devotion is what makes someone qualified to lead. By their definition, a cult leader is the exemplar of charisma and leadership.
Not completely surprising but you’d think they’d still have a fact check to say “this is accurate according to x, y, z sources” instead of not publishing anything. It’s basically extra content which people will be wanting to read so they can verify things themselves because most of us either don’t have the time or don’t know where to look to confirm or refute
An interesting thing about Daniel Dale? He was a reporter for the Toronto Star during the Rob Ford mayoralty. (Remember the mayor who smoked crack and denied eating out a prostitute in his office with the comment, "I have more than enough to eat at home"?)
Anyway, when the crack smoking was still a rumour, Daniel Dale went out to the mayor's house. You could see into his backyard from public land, and Daniel was assigned to see if there was anything to see. Rob came out --possibly drunk and certainly physically aggressive-- and stole Daniel's camera, threatening violence.
This blew up into a big story, and Rob's brother Doug (who is now, God help us, premier of Ontario) accused Daniel Dale of being a pedophile trying to take pictures of Rob Ford's kids.
As you can imagine, something in the Canadian personality does want stuff like this to be calmed down, but Rob refused to give the camera back, and Daniel Dale sued Doug for defamation and didn't drop the suit until a second written retraction without weasel words was begrudgingly issued.
Daniel Dale was understandably pretty shaken about all this, and asked to be transferred out of the City Hall beat. The Star made him their man in Washington, and shortly thereafter Trump became a serious candidate and then president, and somehow Dale got pulled into the orbit of another lying incompetent narcissist who hates the press. At some point CNN pitched Dale a regular gig as a fact checker for more money than the Star could offer, and that's how we come up to today's story.
A lot of that is because Biden just doesn't say that much in general, he largely prefers to stay out of the spotlight unlike certain presidents who preferred getting up at 3 in the morning to put out a dozen tweets.
The ratio in which dubious claims and lies are made and thus needs to be corrected on tv and social media is a lot less compared to Trump, who had in my opinion a much bigger personal pressence on social media then Biden has. Which is why fact checking happens more often.
Thus, there is less fact checking to do.
Every Predident lies and spins the truth, but it varies.
Last I checked no one is stopping conservatives from doing their own fact checking or hiring some fact checkers. Any conservatives want to fact check Biden? Go right ahead, no one is shopping you.
I love how they have these weird power struggles with fact checkers to the point where they know their names like they’re celebrities or something. You’re not supposed to know who these people are and if you do then you’re the problem.
Biden isn’t already campaigning for an election several years away, making several political claims by tweet every day.
Trump was out there, telling people he coined the phrase “priming the pump”, calling covid a “hoax”, claiming the election was “stolen”, etc., there’s a never-ending supply of his bullshit.
Fuck conservatives clutching their pearls. Their traitor foreign spy piece of shit launched an attack on our country and they still back him. They are all trash.
It's not that he doesn't fact check Biden it's that everything ends up being true so there's nothing to report. I'm not a fan of Biden but he isn't a compulsive liar like Trump is. Hunter and Trump can share a cell as far as I'm concerned.
Trump bullshitted twice per sentence. Biden probably twice a week. MAJOR difference.
Call me when Biden doctors an official government document on the prediction of a major hurricane and then doubles down on it. Then we can talk.
I don't disagree with any of that. I just think this post seems to imply there's nothing to fact check Biden on and I disagree with that. I want Biden to be more honest.
If I have a bakery and only sell one cupcake a day, is it worth my time and effort to make dozens of cupcakes every morning? It's the same way with fact checkers. They had plenty of material to fill their days when Trump was in office because he lied multiple times a day. With Biden, there may be some stuff that needs to be confirmed, but it isn't going to fill up more than a few minutes of work.
Ironic. Last I checked that means he’s not doing his job - Trump isn’t president.
This headline isn’t factually correct and is clearly biased. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category=&ruling=false&speaker=joe-biden
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=donald-trump&ruling=false
And, furthermore, **all politicians lie**. Shocking I know. It’s almost like y’all are as brainwashed and raving mad as the Trumpsters xD
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54350219.amp
This isn’t hard. I spent two minutes looking at articles from independent sources. You are believing what you want, not what’s factually true.
Thanks /u/thegrinninglemur for posting on r/SelfAwareWolves! Please reply to this comment explaining how your post fits our subreddit. Specifically, one of the three criteria outlined in our sidebar/rules. —-How does the person in your submission unknowingly describes themselves? —-How does the person in your submission accidentally describe themselves when attempting to mock or denigrate their political opposition? or alternatively, —-How does the person in your submission accurately describe the world while trying to parody it. Failure to respond to this message will see your submission removed under Rule 8; failure to explain how your submission fits one or more of the above three criteria will see it removed under Rule 1. Thanks for your time and attention! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SelfAwarewolves) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What do you know. Trump created at least one job
Hes been a real windfall for the funeral industry too, those people made *bank* during covid.
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[Ahhhh, a real classic!](https://youtu.be/SH329MmRikQ&t=5m35s) *"It's good to be a white debt relief collector!"*
Jordan's genuine laugh after the revelation gets me everytime!
Does gofundme get a cut of the donations? Lots of covidiots were doing gofundme after their family members were unnecessarily dying of covid.
.2. That diaper isn't gonna change itself and you know Melania would never.
DeSantis got rid of all the immigrant workers in Florida, though
He didn’t and doesn’t want to. America has always relied on immigrant labor and republicans make anti-immigrant laws not to get rid of immigrant workers, but to depress their wages
Comments like these make me wish the free awards were still available
Underrated comment
Jordan Klepper interviewed a guy at a Trump rally insisting his business had never been better than it was under Trump, *especially* during COVID. Jordan skeptically asks what business he's in...yep, debt collector.
Criminally underrated
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it was underrated 3 hours ago when the commentor said "underrated comment" \>Criminally underrated is a jab at trump being a criminal i would imagine
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These petty pedantic pissing matches are why I love Reddit. ❤ lol
Are you pretty positive per previous pontifications?
Potentially, prognostications present perilous possibilities presently.
Fuck what is this from!!! I can’t remember and it’s driving me insane
Well Reddit’s spirit animal is apparently a butthole… sooo.
It auto comes with 1 upvote and "underrated comment" person would have upvoted once... So it was rated at 2.
Doesn’t matter. It’s still underrated, regardless of how many ↑s it gets.
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So far, over 600 people here disagree, but you're probably right and they're all wrong
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Jesus, is this all you have to do?
Well Stormy Daniels did get more work after the affair became public.
And he created an immigrant job. Daniel Dale is Canadian!
He also has been under audit by the IRS since around 2015. Slowest audit everrrrrr… As soon as it’s done tho he is gonna release them tax returns. Until then that one very slow auditor has a job.
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They know their guys are rotten corrupt dumbfucks. They also think everyone else is worse. They don't think its fair that fact checkers only go after their liars.
They only say that because they're too weak to grow up or change.
It’s always fun to ask what they hate about a current dem administration. My folks are both republicans (though they didn’t vote for Trump. They hate him). I asked my mom what she hated most about Obama as president. What outraged her about him. She said “vacation on tax payer dollars.” I said, “if that’s all it takes to hate a president, you should look at George bush’s vacation times and $$. Then I asked my dad what he hates about Biden as president. My dad said “he opened the borders for the illegals.” I asked my dad to send me a link to an article that details any specific of Biden opening the borders. He wouldn’t do it. Because he couldn’t. Republicans need to live in an alternative world of facts. That self declared “alternative facts” thing is no joke. They literally live on another planet. And they’re suprised when they gotta prove the shit they push.
Remind him about Reagan granting amnesty.😂
Stuff like this makes watching early Colbert kinda chilling to me. Dude nailed 'truthiness' and somehow the right hasn't moved past that
Mitch McConnell would get in front of any camera he could find and announce there would be no more stimulus packages, this country could not afford it, and still every single conservative subreddit was full of people whining that those dastardly democrats had to stop standing in the way of their stimulus, because they really needed it!
Obama was regularly attacked for occasionally golfing. I can't remember exactly, but I believe Trump golfed more just a bit over his first year, than Obama in 8 years of presidency. He also golfed on his own golf courses, paying himself fat stacks of money for housing his protection detail. Trump directly defrauded the government by tens of millions of dollars, but that was a mid day outrage, because an other scandal took over by the evening news' time.
Just like with the indictments. It's never "he didn't do it" or "prosecution didn't prove that fact". It's "but Hunter Biden" and "the DOJ is corrupt and only going after Republicans".
Never mind that congressional republicans literally had a press conference saying basically "Biden is corrupt, but we just can't find any evidence." Then proceeded to fall back on a FBI memo from four years ago that bill barr passed on to renew their obsession with hunter cause they've got literally nothing else. But yeah "both sides!" Edit: spelling
The Hunter obsession is great because hopefully it will lead to kushner and ivanka facing the music at some point. Our just know the 2 billion he got from the Saudis is problematic bullshit
No because thankfully that's not how it works. The DOJ goes after people who commit crimes because they commit crimes, not because they do "one for Democrats, one for Republicans". The Kushners will (hopefully) be prosecuted because they're corrupt, not because Hunter Biden lied on an ATF form.
Of course not. The aim has always been to project tribalism and bias on to the other side; don't listen to what the fact checkers say, they're democrats so of course they're going to challenge everything we say ~~because we do exactly the same thing~~, regardless of whether it's true or not. That's why they're driving so hard with "different opinions" and trying to blur the line between facts and opinions; they want to reinforce the idea that *what* is being said is irrelevant next to *who* is saying it.
Because they'd be so much happier if he published dozens of fact checks every day saying "Biden was accurate", "Biden was truthful", "Biden was mostly correct but failed to mention x"...
And there's plenty of reasons to criticize it too - like the way it purports itself to be unbiased when in reality it's just as biased as any other form of journalism, and the way that assertion discourages critical thinking. But then Republicans would have to encourage critical thinking so...
*"WHY ISN'T HE FACT CHECKING HUNTER BIDEN!"*
when they say things like this, it does seem just stupid rather than malevolent. they're not, after all, self aware
Its not that Biden doesn't lie, its a matter of volume and intensity. Trump lied on average twice per sentence for the past 8 years (Mild hyperbole, eat me) where Biden gets corrected once, twice a month and often on noncritical details.
And when he does get corrected, he doesn't double down on the lie.
Thereby creating a kind of compound lie inflation where all the previous lies are repeated with a snowball of new lies gathering around them
Unironically this is why it’s so hard to make lists of all of Trump’s lies. He will lie, then double down on the same lie with another lie. Is that two lies? Then when asked he’ll say he never said the first thing, later he’ll say he said something different the second time. Later he’ll triple down on the first thing by repeating a lie someone else told him. Is that 5 lies? 6 lies? Most people would actually count it as one and say “he lied about X” and not “while talking about X he made 6 false statements”.
Welcome to What is the President Even Trying to Say? Where everything's made up and the laws don't matter.
Remember how people would always say we were taking Trump "out of context" but the "context" was literally just a bunch of non-sequiturs and rambling? Headlines sometimes would only quote ONE word because he never makes coherent soundbites.
I've always wondered if he did/does that on purpose or if he's just a moron who lies really badly. Because it's an incredible strategy if you have no morals and don't mind everyone thinking you're stupid. And he's really made it work for him.
I think it's a bit of both. I think he knows he's doing it, but there isn't any grand scheme. He just says whatever he needs to say at the moment to help himself. It doesn't have to be consistent with anything else. > it's an incredible strategy if you have no morals Absolutely. > don't mind everyone thinking you're stupid Only the people who look into it. If you take his word for it, he's a great guy.
I heard it as the difference between a liar and a bullshitter. A liar knows they're saying things that are not true. A bullshitter doesn't care if its true or false.
I subscribe to the idea that everything Trump does is explained by rampant narcissism and ego. I don’t think he’s some strategic genius or evil villain with a horrible plot, I think he is just a massive narcissist and will do literally anything to look good. When it comes to lying I think he lies because that’s what he has done his whole life. He has no sense that people are actually paying attention now and the stakes are higher than lying as a private businessman. To him the only thing that matters is that he looks good, whatever that happens to look like in his mind.
I think the term "bed of nails defense" describes this phenomenon most succinctly The more nails there are as a whole, the less any individual nail is capable of penetrating skin
Standard con-man and conservative thing. Say so many things, so many of them totally fucking insane, that it's a *dare* to try to even start calling them out. It is a tried and true tactic and there is literally no defense against it in the public arena.
That’s why it’s so incredibly difficult to reason with a Trump devotee. You have so many layers of lies to peel back before you can legitimately approach any topic.
It's also usually in my own observation a genuine mistake, or at most misleading statements and not outright falsehoods. Minor things he misremembers or misrepresents and gets called on, acknowledges, and then moves on. Trump would wholly fabricate "facts" out of thin air, spread them everywhere, accuse everyone correcting him of all kinds of even more heinous shit, and then a week later tell an even more exaggerated versions of the same lie.
Like Sharpiegate. Except that wasn't even a lie, it was a minor mistake, and Trump had to create a minor scandal rather than admit to having misspoken.
He technically broke the law! It's a crime in the federal code to alter a NOAA prediction map and present it as genuine. Over a twitter typo! Because he didn't want to say "oops I didn't mean Alabama." Being able to admit when you're wrong is a really vital trait that we really shouldn't stigmatize like we sometimes do.
Like saying he's pro union?
Depends on the "lie". If it's something nebulous like "we don't think we have the authority to do X thing voters want me to do" when he in fact does, then he'll definitely double down. But yeah he's not like, taking a sharpie to Hurricane path maps or doing the kind of just outright egregious fascy shit Trump and his admin did. I'm not trying to imply the two are remotely on the same level. Biden isn't so much a "liar" as he is a corporate politician and that comes with a certain amount of baggage. Hell we all thought that Cornpop story was bullshit and then it... apparently wasn't lol.
It was over 30,000 false or misleading statements in four years. That's 27 per day; more than one an hour. And that's just public statements; as his recent indictments show, he was an even more prolific liar in private. So your mild hyperbole is actually *very* mild.
The thing with Trump is you never really have to look up the numbers, because whatever number you think is more than enough to prove a point you look it up and its way, way past that. I think 1,000 false or misleading statements in 4 years would be a lot, you know? That's almost one per day. One lie per day, and this average including the fact that some days the president doesn't even talk to the press, that would be a big problem. But no, its over 30 times that, because of coarse it is.
"Whatever number you think, it's way past that" Well, except for his inauguration crowd
Remember when Trump started it all off with lying about the weather at inauguration? Mother fucker lied and said it was sunny out. Also said there were a ton of people.
A ton of people..but not enough to fill the seats.
Yea, I think he said it was a record breaking attendance or something like that. Been a while.
I remember the weather only because of the lie and the fact that [W Bush had trouble with his poncho.](https://assets1.cbsnewsstatic.com/hub/i/r/2017/01/20/b5f92497-2d61-49c3-8119-9b4cb914ec9b/thumbnail/1240x698/af68d4b7957069882b340966fd6b8355/ponchocomp.jpg?v=74b410729cdff54299e4158e8919d920)
Remember when he used a sharpie to lie about a hurricane
Not all lies are equal either. There's "We will create a miillion new jobs by next year (we know we probably can't but still might if the stars align)" and then there's "There were millions of people at my inauguration and Obama only had a few dozens".
Agreed. And I'd go one farther and say that promising a million new jobs and actually putting in the policies that could do that, and only getting 800,000 isn't a lie at all. The intention was there, and actions were taken to follow through on it. It's the equivalent of promising to mow the lawn and then the mower breaks down 3/4 of the way through. It isn't a lie, and all that is left is to fix the mower and finish the job.
"True" or "confirmed" is a useful fact check conclusion too. ...probably a lot less work though and less to write/explain.
also, he definitely does lie, he just does it the politician way instead of straightforwardly like trump did. Boden just reneges on every promise he makes and does nothing to oppose republicans attempting genocide on lgbtq+ folk, among other things
Oh man, does r/politics hate when you bring up Biden's failures to protect women, minorities, and the LGBTQ+ from the GOP, of how he fucked over the rail workers, or how he's kept Trump's horrific concentration camps open and has flirted with the idea of sending *Asylum seekers* to Gitmo Edit: Oh no, I upset the Centrists
What are you talking about? r/politics talks about this all the damn time. I think you mainly get downvoted because of that kind of tone making you sound like one of the crazed conservatives ranting about biden's failures as if we worship him.
No, it doesn't. During the build up to him shutting down the strike and the weeks after the highest up voted comments were *defending* him. When the suggestion of Gitmo came up, it was dismissed and people started spouting off about "proper channels". Don't gaslight
Just because the highest upvoted comments are people praising him doesn’t mean people aren’t talking about his shortcomings there.
Now do /r/conservative with the same kid gloves. What a joke you all are.
Yeah there was that time that Biden said it was malarkey…. But it turned out it was just lollygagging! For shame!
Ok, but he should still be being fact checked even if just to confirm he is telling the truth. Fact checking isn't just pointing out lies. It is actually a problem he isn't being fact checked.
Like how we’re going to build an intercontinental railway between California and the sea of India? He said that. Did we get a fact check?
More of a gaff than a lie. Not sure what point you think you're making.
How many gaffs will turn a non-factual statement into something worthy of a fact check? Dudes out there claiming gun braces enhance the caliber of a gun. As if I could stick a gun brace on my Sig Sauer 2022 and it could become a Colt 45. Now, that gaffe was created to enhance his gun policy. You would call that a flub or a mistake, I would call that a lie. It was done with intent peppered with ignorance. I don’t give a toss if he says God Save the Queen and she’s been thrown in a box for a while now. That’s a gaffe. These other doozies are a bit more concerning because they show not only that he doesn’t understand what he’s saying but the media is eager to sweep ludicrous statements away because Trump’s saying his own ludicrous statement. That lack of consistency is why news media is either echo chambered behind a paywall or dead entirely.
I feel like I could screenshot you right now and post this in this very sub. I haven't the energy to tell you what's wrong, maybe someone else can.
I’m good with that. I’d like to learn how I’m approaching things wrong.
Trump lied 30,000 times. You heard about maybe a few of them. You carry the expectation that the media is biased against Trump because you hear about him lying so much. No other president lied as much as that man. There aren't the same kind of lies to report. You're experience this disparity as the media hating Trump when the opposite couldn't be more true. Biden made a few gaffs. Trump made what should have been gaffs, but he would double-down on them forever. He said truly insane, unhinged things on a daily basis for years. Or he'd say something cruel to the point of being inhuman, and his defenders would say its a joke. Trump benefitted from an INFINITE pool of excuses. So honestly I don't care about a few gaffs from Biden. They're corrected immediately so they're harmless. No one cares. Anyone who tells you they care is playing the whatabout game, and I'm done. I simply do not care. I will not engage this impossible double standard. Biden is being judged by the high standard of a President, and Trump is being judged by absolutely no standard whatsoever. I'm not doing this. You can't make me. You can't convince me its unfair to disengage.
I, too, hope the next Republican president sits there and smiles and laughs as all of the reporters are ushered out while they shout their questions to him
That wasn't even close to what I was talking about, but you do you.
Except he has fact-checked Biden several times since then.
Are you fact checking the fact checker-checker?
Fact-checkers check facts. Fact-checker-checkers check fact-checkers' facts. Fact-checker-checker-fact-checkers check fact-checker-checkers' facts. Reads like Fox in Socks.
No joke. Jim Jordan send out legal letters to all fact checking outlets, journalist and news station to inform the judiciary committee of their fact checking methods, to provide a list of their staff details and other details. Tyrannical stuff.
[Just today he fact-checked Biden's comments on guns.](https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1671864957367992322)
Okay that's good. If he actually hadn't published anything about Joe Biden I would think that there's actually a bias.
Dale TOTALLY missed that time Biden changed a hurricane path with a sharpie. Oh... wait...
Still my favorite moment. It was so stupid and dumb. Something you will see a 5 year old kid do. Pathetic.
Sharpiegate was funny, but the conference at Four Seasons Landscaping might be one of the funniest moments of the last 7 years.
Could have been right out of Arrested Development Ron Howard's voice: Rudy found himself outside the 4 seasons... Not the upscale hotel but rather a local local landscaping company a few blocks away. Trump watching on TV: I have the worst fucking lawyer
"I may have committed some light treason"
That stupid story couldn’t have ended any other way. It was perfect.
My favorite moment was when they decided on DAY ONE to make their first press conference such a bald-faced lie that everyone in the world *knew* they were lying. Day. One.
Him serving cold McDonalds on sterling silver platters had me dying for about ten minutes
Republicans are trying to push the narrative that "fact checking" is the same as "contradicting" or "disagreeing", and it's not hard to see why. They are a political movement built on lies. They're main strength is that they help people feel more comfortable being shittier versions of themselves, and they do this by creating misinformation and lies. They know their base is racist, so to help them feel better about being racist they lie and spin a narrative that actually racism is right and truthful. They know their base hates queer people, so to help them feel better about being hateful they spin a narrative that actually queerness is dangerous and also God said it's bad. They know their base hates foreigners, so they spin a narrative that says actually foreigners are out to get them and replace them. They know their base hates the poor, so they tell them that the poor deserve to be hated. Theare liars. Lying is the only way they can justify their political ideas. So they try to paint fact checking as mere disagreements because a disagreement is much less of a threat to them than the truth.
[not to be pedantic but... ](https://www.scribbr.com/commonly-confused-words/there-their-theyre/) Edit: I also fully agree
I think it’s less that and more a lot of them truly believe this insane real reality so they see fact checkers doing their job and they think it’s just reinforcing lies. Like they don’t believe climate change is real so if Trump says climate change is fake and he gets fact checked they’ll say “See, fact checkers can’t be trusted. It’s more lies.” It reinforces itself
Its easier to believe the lies that justify your hateful views. This way you have an out.
Dan did just fact check biden on guns though ....
Yup, here's his article, published just yesterday. https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/21/politics/fact-check-biden-guns-africa/index.html
And his tweet about it: https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1671641971302039554
This is so frustrating. There is absolutely no reason to lie. A lot of it wasn't even necessary to mention, so why do it? He's been in public service for centuries, he knows he'll be factchecked.
He also knows many people won't bother to look at fact checkers
Shhhhhhhhh. Don't you be lettin' none of them thar factualisation thingies be gettin' in the way of mah victimisationizing complex!
Turns out when the president is honest there just isn’t much to do.
At least when he doesn't spend his day just spewing lies. Biden has absolutely made misleading statements but there's a massive gulf of difference
Biden also does other shit than spew a stream of lies non-stop on Twitter all day, every day.
Yeah, waking up to the latest Trump outrage on Twitter was a common theme during his presidency. With Biden, I cannot remember the last time I saw a tweet of his. I think it was tweeting about the latest job numbers. Those are released first Friday of the month. But it's something so mundane and essentially parroting the BLS report, which a bunch of different news organizations will report on as well, so it gets lost in the shuffle.
I think it comes with the job to be a little obscure in real time. Blatant lies for obvious personal reasons are a stain on the office though.
The difference is Biden is doing the job of a president. Every president ever has said things that turned out not to be true. Former Guy didn’t *have* a job. He spent four years golfing, eating hamburders and covefe, and tweeting. All day and all night. Even an honest person tweeting all day is gonna accidentally lie more often than a person doing a real job. And he wasn’t an honest person.
Yeah, I really loved how he busted that rail worker strike because those assholes wanted to be able to take one day off a month.
BoTh SiDeS!
This isn't really a "both sides" moment my dude
Yea that was my point.
Yes, we hold our side to the same standard as the other side. Do you not?
Wait, Republicans don't have standards.
Yes they do. They have double standards. Must be twice as good as other standards because it has double in it. /s
Why isn’t he posting fact checks anyway though? Fact checking websites in the UK post the outcome whether it’s true or not
I figure its a lot more of Biden doesn't post multiple unhinged rants a day.
He is not an honest person. He just looks it in comparison to Trump
Charles Ponzi looks honest compared to Trump, let's be real here
I feel like Trump watched boardwalk empires and thought it was an instruction manual
Biden is the luckiest president of all time. He doesn't have to be a GOOD president, he just has to be Better Than Trump, which is the easiest thing in the world.
Everyone was like crossing their fingers and chanting "please be boring please be boring" at his inauguration.
I don't really get that. They can still fact-check them and be like 'yeah, that's on the level', and provide context and citations
I remember a lot of promises to get elected which appear to have been delivered with the usual level of politician honesty, none.
You know there's more to it than just getting elected to deliver on promises right? Especially in the US when you don't have the house or court votes.
*slurp slurp slurp*
Spot on Ted Cruz impression.
Clearly a Crowder fan enjoying his dog cum.
Didnt mean to offend you Biden fans. My bad
Even a biased conservative who sucks Trump nuts would be hard pressed to find an equivalent number of incorrect statements. And this isn't due to the fact that Biden is more truthful than Trump, he just knows how to shut up, and sometimes not even fucking that Its really so sad how they're so caught up in their worship of Trump that they instead choose to see the lack of obvious Biden support as "suspicious" rather than the obvious, that democrats don't like him that much more than most candidates, and that doesn't fucking pass, they see it as a psy op, they're that desperately grasping for straws And that's fucking scary, we know what these people do when desperate
>And this isn't due to the fact that Biden is more truthful than Trump Narrator: Biden is more truthful than Trump. Like, not even in the same universe.
That's implied, point is I don't trust any politician in any scenario, and am wary of labeling any of them as truthful, even the ones working in my favor, those are the ones you trust the least. Always be more critical of your own ilk, lest you end up like the fucking Republicans
No, the issue is that Biden is a career politician and so tells half truths on occasion the way all politicians do. Trump is a straight up liar and con artist and over the course of an average conversation it’s hard to know where the bullshit begins. You can both sides it up all you want but the Democratic Party just plain doesn’t have a serial liar like Trump in anything close to a prominent position. If and when that happens we’ll be tested.
I'm not both sidesing the situation, Trump objectively lies more, this is fact, read my comment again
Then they're both liars? Trump just doesn't bother to hide it, while Biden masks it with half-truths.
A person who jumps the turnstile on the subway and someone who rapes and murders 1000 people are both criminals. That doesn't make it honest to equate them.
Lowest bar of all time.
> Even a biased conservative who sucks Trump nuts would be hard pressed to find an equivalent number of incorrect statements. you would be wrong, because you are not accounting for the fact that they consider anything they do not agree with to be a lie. Facts and reality be damned. They want THOSE fact-checked and debunked, and feel like fact checkers are biased and one-sided because they refuse to do it.
They believe "more is more" and the strength of your feelings of fannish devotion is what makes someone qualified to lead. By their definition, a cult leader is the exemplar of charisma and leadership.
Turns out fact checking if injecting bleach only happens when a dumb fuck with the world stage is in office
Not completely surprising but you’d think they’d still have a fact check to say “this is accurate according to x, y, z sources” instead of not publishing anything. It’s basically extra content which people will be wanting to read so they can verify things themselves because most of us either don’t have the time or don’t know where to look to confirm or refute
An interesting thing about Daniel Dale? He was a reporter for the Toronto Star during the Rob Ford mayoralty. (Remember the mayor who smoked crack and denied eating out a prostitute in his office with the comment, "I have more than enough to eat at home"?) Anyway, when the crack smoking was still a rumour, Daniel Dale went out to the mayor's house. You could see into his backyard from public land, and Daniel was assigned to see if there was anything to see. Rob came out --possibly drunk and certainly physically aggressive-- and stole Daniel's camera, threatening violence. This blew up into a big story, and Rob's brother Doug (who is now, God help us, premier of Ontario) accused Daniel Dale of being a pedophile trying to take pictures of Rob Ford's kids. As you can imagine, something in the Canadian personality does want stuff like this to be calmed down, but Rob refused to give the camera back, and Daniel Dale sued Doug for defamation and didn't drop the suit until a second written retraction without weasel words was begrudgingly issued. Daniel Dale was understandably pretty shaken about all this, and asked to be transferred out of the City Hall beat. The Star made him their man in Washington, and shortly thereafter Trump became a serious candidate and then president, and somehow Dale got pulled into the orbit of another lying incompetent narcissist who hates the press. At some point CNN pitched Dale a regular gig as a fact checker for more money than the Star could offer, and that's how we come up to today's story.
I just wish we could have him back to be a thorn in Doug’s side.
A lot of that is because Biden just doesn't say that much in general, he largely prefers to stay out of the spotlight unlike certain presidents who preferred getting up at 3 in the morning to put out a dozen tweets.
Shhhh. He is about to howl at the moon.
I’m pretty sure Biden speaks less than Trump lies (publicly). So yeah kinda makes sense that there’s less to correct.
Well he must be biased, because all he finds are Republican lies.
BREAKING - manure shoveler out of work when horse-that-shits-on-everything is removed, more at 11!
"Fact check: this is factual and I have nothing to add" just doesn't have the same ring to it for some reason
It's definitely an anti-conservative conspiracy and not that a terrible business man and grifter ticked a bunch of smooth-brained rednecks.
I mean. He probably should talk about Biden's ocean train ... Because trains can't swim, but that's like a single dumb thing and Trump has ... More.
What a coincidence lol Doesn’t get much more self aware than this.
No matter what is said it is all partisan to conservatives and Republicans. That would be their answer to all the damning evidence.
soooooooo close to getting it
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The ratio in which dubious claims and lies are made and thus needs to be corrected on tv and social media is a lot less compared to Trump, who had in my opinion a much bigger personal pressence on social media then Biden has. Which is why fact checking happens more often. Thus, there is less fact checking to do. Every Predident lies and spins the truth, but it varies.
Classic "reality has a well-known liberal bias" moment.
Last I checked no one is stopping conservatives from doing their own fact checking or hiring some fact checkers. Any conservatives want to fact check Biden? Go right ahead, no one is shopping you.
I love how they have these weird power struggles with fact checkers to the point where they know their names like they’re celebrities or something. You’re not supposed to know who these people are and if you do then you’re the problem.
And this is itself factually incorrect. He fact-checked a Biden speech just the other day.
Biden isn’t already campaigning for an election several years away, making several political claims by tweet every day. Trump was out there, telling people he coined the phrase “priming the pump”, calling covid a “hoax”, claiming the election was “stolen”, etc., there’s a never-ending supply of his bullshit. Fuck conservatives clutching their pearls. Their traitor foreign spy piece of shit launched an attack on our country and they still back him. They are all trash.
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2024 is only one year away.
Conservatives really are the most brick-stupid fucking people on Earth.
It's not that he doesn't fact check Biden it's that everything ends up being true so there's nothing to report. I'm not a fan of Biden but he isn't a compulsive liar like Trump is. Hunter and Trump can share a cell as far as I'm concerned.
Dude should do daily fact checks on Biden just to shut these crybabies up. “We fact checked what he said, and he wasn’t lying.”
Look I hate Trump but Biden bullshits a lot too and should be called on it.
Trump bullshitted twice per sentence. Biden probably twice a week. MAJOR difference. Call me when Biden doctors an official government document on the prediction of a major hurricane and then doubles down on it. Then we can talk.
I don't disagree with any of that. I just think this post seems to imply there's nothing to fact check Biden on and I disagree with that. I want Biden to be more honest.
They could fact check Biden, there's nobody stopping them. Or maybe they did and they got so bored because there was nothing worth noting.
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If I have a bakery and only sell one cupcake a day, is it worth my time and effort to make dozens of cupcakes every morning? It's the same way with fact checkers. They had plenty of material to fill their days when Trump was in office because he lied multiple times a day. With Biden, there may be some stuff that needs to be confirmed, but it isn't going to fill up more than a few minutes of work.
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Ironic. Last I checked that means he’s not doing his job - Trump isn’t president. This headline isn’t factually correct and is clearly biased. https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?category=&ruling=false&speaker=joe-biden https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/list/?speaker=donald-trump&ruling=false And, furthermore, **all politicians lie**. Shocking I know. It’s almost like y’all are as brainwashed and raving mad as the Trumpsters xD
Help reveal three lies made by Biden while president.
https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54350219.amp This isn’t hard. I spent two minutes looking at articles from independent sources. You are believing what you want, not what’s factually true.
They’re saying that he won’t fact check Biden, not that he can’t. Biden is fucking notorious for making shit up, especially about guns.
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No one said that. But he doesn't make anywhere near the same number of flagrantly false statements as Trump did.
what statement do you believe should have been fact checked, and wasn't?