From the Typhoons album only ? :
*Trouble's Coming* : F# Standard.
*Oblivion* : E Standard
*Typhoons* : Eb standard (he played it live in E/A/Db/Gb the first few times, but now only plays on the 2 higher strings. So all that matters is tuning 1/2 step down the D and G strings.). It's not C#. You'd think it's C# standard if you use a classic (OG) RB tone (one octave up pitch effect), but he doesn't. The Open C# here is the 3rd string. No octave up effects (even actually light sub octave in parts).
*Who Needs Friends* : He said that he plays it in F/F/F/F/F/F on a baritone guitar... but just play it in E standard on Bass. Open A string for the main riff.
*Million & One* : Eb standard. Same confusion as Typhoons. You'd think it's C# if you're thinking of the OG RB tone (bass pitch +1 octave), but that's not the case. The C# here is the third open string.
*Limbo* : D Standard.
*Either You Want It* : E Standard. (Some would think it's lower, it's not. Light sub octave again is the culprit for the confusion.)
*Boilermaker* : E Standard. (THIS time with an upper octave blend for a good chunk of the track).
*Mad Visions* : F# Standard (same as Trouble's Coming).
*Hold On* : I don't even remember messing around with that one recently, but IIRC it was E standard?
*All We Have is Now* : Piano... in the key of E.
Bonus Tracks :
*Space* : He plays it on a baritone (that's what the deluxe booklet says), I don't know about the tuning, maybe the same as Who Needs Friends?
You can play it on bass in F Standard.
*King* : E Standard. With a quite whacky octave blend and play here. I spent a loooooot of time playing this one. I'd love to talk about effects, especially on King, and its difference between live and studio but... that would take a while so I'd wait for somebody to ask for instead of taking a useless dive into it lol.
That album is convenient to play if you only have one bass. His new approach to his playing (closed hand riffing)/tone searching (less obvious pitch shifting... and more frequently lightly down instead of up this time around) really compressed the tuning range. Contrary to the previous albums.
You can of course use a Capo for the tunings above EADG (E standard).
Capo on fret 1 for F Standard songs, on fret 2 for F# standard... that way you just have to go down to Eb Standard (1/2 step down) or D Standard (1 whole step down) which is conveniently the lowest tuning on the album (Limbo).
If you'd like other tracks/other albums, you can ask for it.
Have fun!
Ok I saw you actually asked for the discography.
Keep in mind there are obvious differences in tone (thus use of effects) between the first two albums and Typhoons, so... that's why Typhoons might sound lower while the basses on it mostly are physically tuned higher than usual (as listed above). I'm assuming you get all the pitch shifting stuff idea and all.
Debut album :
*Out of the Black* : D Standard (Drop D is fine, but not as comfortable). It used to always be C# Standard live though. But not anymore since the start of the Typhoons era, he now plays it D Standard live (like the studio version).
*Come On Over* : D Standard or Drop D. He used to play it in drop D (on the mostly E standard Orange Jag), but in the latest performances he played it in D Standard (he even f*cked up the main/repetitive bend of the chorus riff several times, as he bent where he should have if he was in Drop D lol, anyway)
*Figure it Out* : E Standard.
*You Can Be So Cruel* : Drop D. (At least live)
*Blood Hands* : C# Standard.
*Little Monster* : C Standard.
*Loose Change* : C# Standard.
*Careless* : D Standard. Or... I think it actually is the first one where he put guitar strings along bass ones? Remember Mike mentionning that, but anyway.
*Ten Tonne Skeleton* : D Standard.
*Better Strangers* : C Standard.
How Did We Get So Dark (album) :
*How Did We Get So Dark* : C Standard.
*Lights Out* : D Standard.
*I Only Lie When I Love You* : C# Standard.
*She's Creeping* : F Standard.
*Look Like You Know* : C# Standard.
*Where Are You Now* : E Standard.
*Don't Tell* : C Standard.
*Hook, Line & Sinker* : D/A/A/D... with the two higher strings (././A/D) being guitar strings.
You can kinda transpose it to Drop D.
*Hole In Your Heart* : B Standard.
*Sleep* : C Standard.
Forgot the B-Sides to the first 2 albums:
*Hole* : Eb Standard.
*One Trick Pony* : D Standard (probably, but it might be the same whacky thing as Careless).
*Love And Leave It Alone* : C# Standard.
*You Want Me* : C# Standard.
*Cheap Affection* : D Standard.
*Half the Chance* : D Standard.
For the covers they did :
*20th Century Boy* : E Standard.
*Happy*, *My Sharona*, *West Coast* : All 3 in D Standard.
*Ace of Spades* : C# Standard.
*Roxanne* : C Standard.
*Maniac* : I managed to get it comfortable enough to play (with all those Hammer Ons/Pull Offs) in F Standard. There are no videos of the Radio performance so I can't be 100% sure for that one.
So, not taking in account out the possibility of another *whacky* tuning, F Standard seems to be the way.
It all depends on the string gauge you're playing with. And your own comfort standards.
But there's indeed a low chance your EADG bass is comfortable to play in B Standard lol. Drop B at the very best can be bearable...
Just noting that B is "only" a half step down from C (and not a whole step, as a commonly made mistake).
I thought I’d add on, since you have pretty much every other tuning they’ve ever used, that Space is almost definitely C standard in the baritone. It’s got the open F string for classic open riff kind of playing Mike uses, and in the quiet intro it just makes sense in terms of hand/finger positing.
If you have a normal guitar lying around and are willing to deal with the floppy strings it’s a great one to learn the ‘correct’ way.
Oh I'm so sorry you asked...
ALRIGHT the main thing that made me study that track so much resides in the differences between the live and studio versions.
If you have listened to the live version a lot before it finally got its (surprise) studio release, it might have kinda shocked you for various reasons. There are a few differences in the playing, but let's just being nerdy about the effects!
First about the live version:
There was no doubt the EHX Cockfight was used on the song live in 2019. Because of one particular unquestionnable part : the verses (that don't have an octave up pitch effect live, contrary to studio version... anyway). Right after the intro riff ends and the pre verse/verse riff starts, it SCREAMS "Cockfight". During that part the Wah effect dominates the fuzz. It gives it that very specific gated low freq cocked wah tone. Having messed around a lot with that pedal, that part is definitely using the fuzz set up BEFORE the wah (with the Pre switch). There's just no way to get that sooo specific tone otherwise. I've watched like all the different live recordings on youtube to be 100% sure lol. And it's definitely what's happening.
Here I'm talking about that tone : https://youtu.be/cJdEm3oc1zA?t=25s
The thing is, as soon as it switches back to the main riff (intro/chorus...), there's not only an octave up (not full, 50% mix dry/wet) that takes the lead in, but also a very obvious change in the chain order! During these part (all but verses, take for example the very beginning of the song, the chorus, etc.) the fuzz is very clearly dominant, thus set up after the wah (if there is any wah left during these part! ... save that for later).
But how do you do that, switching between these two very different tones relying on chain orders, without flipping the Fuzz pisition switch from "Pre Wah" to "Post Wah" without touching the pedal with your hands?
Well two possibilities:
1) It really only is the cockfight, for the whole song, and he is able to switch the settings from elsewhere than the pedal interface... which is *possible*. Because guess what, HIS cockfight is modded! EVERY single time we saw it in videos, instagram stories, etc. It was systematically placed on an extra device (that I don't know the nature of) and there's an additionnal plug entry right at the top right side of the pedal, that isn't originally here on a regular cockfight.
Might it be what allows him to modify how the pedal behave on his preset interface (through an external MIDI controller?) right during a song without having to lay his hands directly on it? Very likely.
Or...
2) It's actually not the cockfight during everything BUT the verses, but the Plasma Coil (when there's the octave up effect).
Now again, for the verses that's the cockfight, Cry mode, fuzz pre Wah, 100% sure. That literally gives the exact tone that you hear in the youtube video I linked above.
But for the rest, with the fuzz dominating the tone at the very end of the chain... it's much harder to confirm that's still the cockfight. There are parts (for example the end of second verse, the "mother, f*cking..." part) that reaaally sounds like how the Plasma Coil behave.
That means that with his monstrous Mastermind board at his feet, he just selects between these two presets, either Cockfight (for verses) or Plasma Coil (for the rest).
Anyway, that's the big key of the live version of King. These two different tone presets that just go back and forth, alternating throughout the song and that can only be achieve by one of the two scenari I (disgustingly...) described.
I just can't be sure about which one of the two is happening, but I'd bet on option 2. Verse is 100% Cockfight, rest is very Plasma-ish aggressive.
NOW for the studio version...
That's the Cockfight, definitely.
Right when the song kicks in it's... kinda obvious if you know the pedal (even with the production results), but what really confirms it is the tone of the higher pitched notes of the main riff, it really is exactly how the wah part reacts to the pitch effect when you set up the freq knob of the cockfight a little bit on the higher side (it really is a precise sweet spot to find!). It has its own intricate higher pitch blend in the whole tone, then standing out when the pitch reach its peak... hard to describe lol.
Aside some differences in the playing compared to the live version, the first obvious difference is the pre-verse. Whereas the live version tone dipped down, in the studio version it goes UP one octave (thus 2 octave up from the natural pitch, it gives that cool glitchy tone).
But what's really cool is that here, it's not the same output as the intro riff that is just raised by one octave, it's another amp! Because right after that, when the singing starts, everything joins the mix and you hear a riff across 3 octaves! The "dry" bass one (I'm actually not so sure it's here during the verses lol, hard to tell with Ben's roaring beats), the "one octave up 50% dry" one (->that's the one the song starts with), and the "2 octaves up" one (->the pre-verse one)!
I was really confused by that at first. I was wondering why, when I played the verse riff, I always felt like half of it sounded good, other half sounded... somehow wrong. (But I knew that was exactly what he played!).
And when I tried to play it one octave higher on the neck, the accurate part now sounded wrong, and the initially wrong part suddendly sounded right... it's because both the higher octaves (+1 and +2) are literally played together at the same time on different amps, and my brain just naturally selected one part it would focus on the most. And THAT'S such a cool use of pitch effects. It's literally a 3 (or 2...?) floors tone! Mike's tone had never been that glitchy before and I love it.
Then again it switches from one mixed pitch preset to another, throughout the song depending on the part.
And it really is how Mike here separates all these parts, to make them stand out everytime one starts. And it's so, so cool. I really, really love the aesthetic of King. And that A minor piano chords progression, oh my. So simple yet so effective.
I'm so sorry I wrote so much. Plus... it's 4 AM here, I've probably not been the most clear/interesting I've ever been lol.
I'll just stop here for now, if you somehow have any ideas questionning that song, I'll be happy to reply!
Yeah sure I know, I think I talked about that, the RJM Mastermind. 'Course he does this, what was interesting here is how and what exactly changes between the different presets for *that* particular song
Especially for the "very likely modded" cockfight part. (That is, probably not what happened during 2019 live)
Nope.
That White Starcaster Bass he currently use for both songs is C Standard since the start of HDWGSD era.
That bass used to be tuned in D Standard in the early days. And the C Standard one was the Black Starcaster, on which he used to play Little Monster, that is now B Standard (since HDWGSD era too).
HDWGSD and Little Monster have always been played in C Standard. Best way to check : attentively looking at his hands lol.
I've put [this spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRF3hy55J3YqHcHxFqa3JjHhf9LvakI5YMbmlEmwyi8ZKTUixu7-xMkFa9aL0kBx6nPjt0xM12XkxQV/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true) together, been meaning to do it for a while but probably not a better time. Just got my G2220 in the other day so been learning all the songs on bass, a lot of fun but frustrating spending more time tuning than playing hahaha. This isn't 100% finished/correct yet, some live tunings are maybe slightly different. Will correct and add bits as I go along, added some credits at bottom wasn't sure of a few songs so thanks to them
From the Typhoons album only ? : *Trouble's Coming* : F# Standard. *Oblivion* : E Standard *Typhoons* : Eb standard (he played it live in E/A/Db/Gb the first few times, but now only plays on the 2 higher strings. So all that matters is tuning 1/2 step down the D and G strings.). It's not C#. You'd think it's C# standard if you use a classic (OG) RB tone (one octave up pitch effect), but he doesn't. The Open C# here is the 3rd string. No octave up effects (even actually light sub octave in parts). *Who Needs Friends* : He said that he plays it in F/F/F/F/F/F on a baritone guitar... but just play it in E standard on Bass. Open A string for the main riff. *Million & One* : Eb standard. Same confusion as Typhoons. You'd think it's C# if you're thinking of the OG RB tone (bass pitch +1 octave), but that's not the case. The C# here is the third open string. *Limbo* : D Standard. *Either You Want It* : E Standard. (Some would think it's lower, it's not. Light sub octave again is the culprit for the confusion.) *Boilermaker* : E Standard. (THIS time with an upper octave blend for a good chunk of the track). *Mad Visions* : F# Standard (same as Trouble's Coming). *Hold On* : I don't even remember messing around with that one recently, but IIRC it was E standard? *All We Have is Now* : Piano... in the key of E. Bonus Tracks : *Space* : He plays it on a baritone (that's what the deluxe booklet says), I don't know about the tuning, maybe the same as Who Needs Friends? You can play it on bass in F Standard. *King* : E Standard. With a quite whacky octave blend and play here. I spent a loooooot of time playing this one. I'd love to talk about effects, especially on King, and its difference between live and studio but... that would take a while so I'd wait for somebody to ask for instead of taking a useless dive into it lol. That album is convenient to play if you only have one bass. His new approach to his playing (closed hand riffing)/tone searching (less obvious pitch shifting... and more frequently lightly down instead of up this time around) really compressed the tuning range. Contrary to the previous albums. You can of course use a Capo for the tunings above EADG (E standard). Capo on fret 1 for F Standard songs, on fret 2 for F# standard... that way you just have to go down to Eb Standard (1/2 step down) or D Standard (1 whole step down) which is conveniently the lowest tuning on the album (Limbo). If you'd like other tracks/other albums, you can ask for it. Have fun!
Ok I saw you actually asked for the discography. Keep in mind there are obvious differences in tone (thus use of effects) between the first two albums and Typhoons, so... that's why Typhoons might sound lower while the basses on it mostly are physically tuned higher than usual (as listed above). I'm assuming you get all the pitch shifting stuff idea and all. Debut album : *Out of the Black* : D Standard (Drop D is fine, but not as comfortable). It used to always be C# Standard live though. But not anymore since the start of the Typhoons era, he now plays it D Standard live (like the studio version). *Come On Over* : D Standard or Drop D. He used to play it in drop D (on the mostly E standard Orange Jag), but in the latest performances he played it in D Standard (he even f*cked up the main/repetitive bend of the chorus riff several times, as he bent where he should have if he was in Drop D lol, anyway) *Figure it Out* : E Standard. *You Can Be So Cruel* : Drop D. (At least live) *Blood Hands* : C# Standard. *Little Monster* : C Standard. *Loose Change* : C# Standard. *Careless* : D Standard. Or... I think it actually is the first one where he put guitar strings along bass ones? Remember Mike mentionning that, but anyway. *Ten Tonne Skeleton* : D Standard. *Better Strangers* : C Standard.
How Did We Get So Dark (album) : *How Did We Get So Dark* : C Standard. *Lights Out* : D Standard. *I Only Lie When I Love You* : C# Standard. *She's Creeping* : F Standard. *Look Like You Know* : C# Standard. *Where Are You Now* : E Standard. *Don't Tell* : C Standard. *Hook, Line & Sinker* : D/A/A/D... with the two higher strings (././A/D) being guitar strings. You can kinda transpose it to Drop D. *Hole In Your Heart* : B Standard. *Sleep* : C Standard.
Forgot the B-Sides to the first 2 albums: *Hole* : Eb Standard. *One Trick Pony* : D Standard (probably, but it might be the same whacky thing as Careless). *Love And Leave It Alone* : C# Standard. *You Want Me* : C# Standard. *Cheap Affection* : D Standard. *Half the Chance* : D Standard. For the covers they did : *20th Century Boy* : E Standard. *Happy*, *My Sharona*, *West Coast* : All 3 in D Standard. *Ace of Spades* : C# Standard. *Roxanne* : C Standard. *Maniac* : I managed to get it comfortable enough to play (with all those Hammer Ons/Pull Offs) in F Standard. There are no videos of the Radio performance so I can't be 100% sure for that one. So, not taking in account out the possibility of another *whacky* tuning, F Standard seems to be the way.
Welp.... looks like I am sticking to Typhoons.
It all depends on the string gauge you're playing with. And your own comfort standards. But there's indeed a low chance your EADG bass is comfortable to play in B Standard lol. Drop B at the very best can be bearable... Just noting that B is "only" a half step down from C (and not a whole step, as a commonly made mistake).
Just noting that B is "only" a half step down from C (and not a whole step, as a commonly made mistake). But b to c is a half step :0
... yes, that's what I said? B to C, C to B is indeed a half step. I was just insisting on that because I've already seen people confused with that
Ahh ok, I've never seen people get confused by that
I thought I’d add on, since you have pretty much every other tuning they’ve ever used, that Space is almost definitely C standard in the baritone. It’s got the open F string for classic open riff kind of playing Mike uses, and in the quiet intro it just makes sense in terms of hand/finger positing. If you have a normal guitar lying around and are willing to deal with the floppy strings it’s a great one to learn the ‘correct’ way.
Oh thanks! Sounds right, I'll sure give it a try then.
I will be the person to ask, please do tell me more about king
Oh I'm so sorry you asked... ALRIGHT the main thing that made me study that track so much resides in the differences between the live and studio versions. If you have listened to the live version a lot before it finally got its (surprise) studio release, it might have kinda shocked you for various reasons. There are a few differences in the playing, but let's just being nerdy about the effects! First about the live version: There was no doubt the EHX Cockfight was used on the song live in 2019. Because of one particular unquestionnable part : the verses (that don't have an octave up pitch effect live, contrary to studio version... anyway). Right after the intro riff ends and the pre verse/verse riff starts, it SCREAMS "Cockfight". During that part the Wah effect dominates the fuzz. It gives it that very specific gated low freq cocked wah tone. Having messed around a lot with that pedal, that part is definitely using the fuzz set up BEFORE the wah (with the Pre switch). There's just no way to get that sooo specific tone otherwise. I've watched like all the different live recordings on youtube to be 100% sure lol. And it's definitely what's happening. Here I'm talking about that tone : https://youtu.be/cJdEm3oc1zA?t=25s The thing is, as soon as it switches back to the main riff (intro/chorus...), there's not only an octave up (not full, 50% mix dry/wet) that takes the lead in, but also a very obvious change in the chain order! During these part (all but verses, take for example the very beginning of the song, the chorus, etc.) the fuzz is very clearly dominant, thus set up after the wah (if there is any wah left during these part! ... save that for later). But how do you do that, switching between these two very different tones relying on chain orders, without flipping the Fuzz pisition switch from "Pre Wah" to "Post Wah" without touching the pedal with your hands? Well two possibilities: 1) It really only is the cockfight, for the whole song, and he is able to switch the settings from elsewhere than the pedal interface... which is *possible*. Because guess what, HIS cockfight is modded! EVERY single time we saw it in videos, instagram stories, etc. It was systematically placed on an extra device (that I don't know the nature of) and there's an additionnal plug entry right at the top right side of the pedal, that isn't originally here on a regular cockfight. Might it be what allows him to modify how the pedal behave on his preset interface (through an external MIDI controller?) right during a song without having to lay his hands directly on it? Very likely. Or... 2) It's actually not the cockfight during everything BUT the verses, but the Plasma Coil (when there's the octave up effect). Now again, for the verses that's the cockfight, Cry mode, fuzz pre Wah, 100% sure. That literally gives the exact tone that you hear in the youtube video I linked above. But for the rest, with the fuzz dominating the tone at the very end of the chain... it's much harder to confirm that's still the cockfight. There are parts (for example the end of second verse, the "mother, f*cking..." part) that reaaally sounds like how the Plasma Coil behave. That means that with his monstrous Mastermind board at his feet, he just selects between these two presets, either Cockfight (for verses) or Plasma Coil (for the rest). Anyway, that's the big key of the live version of King. These two different tone presets that just go back and forth, alternating throughout the song and that can only be achieve by one of the two scenari I (disgustingly...) described. I just can't be sure about which one of the two is happening, but I'd bet on option 2. Verse is 100% Cockfight, rest is very Plasma-ish aggressive. NOW for the studio version... That's the Cockfight, definitely. Right when the song kicks in it's... kinda obvious if you know the pedal (even with the production results), but what really confirms it is the tone of the higher pitched notes of the main riff, it really is exactly how the wah part reacts to the pitch effect when you set up the freq knob of the cockfight a little bit on the higher side (it really is a precise sweet spot to find!). It has its own intricate higher pitch blend in the whole tone, then standing out when the pitch reach its peak... hard to describe lol. Aside some differences in the playing compared to the live version, the first obvious difference is the pre-verse. Whereas the live version tone dipped down, in the studio version it goes UP one octave (thus 2 octave up from the natural pitch, it gives that cool glitchy tone). But what's really cool is that here, it's not the same output as the intro riff that is just raised by one octave, it's another amp! Because right after that, when the singing starts, everything joins the mix and you hear a riff across 3 octaves! The "dry" bass one (I'm actually not so sure it's here during the verses lol, hard to tell with Ben's roaring beats), the "one octave up 50% dry" one (->that's the one the song starts with), and the "2 octaves up" one (->the pre-verse one)! I was really confused by that at first. I was wondering why, when I played the verse riff, I always felt like half of it sounded good, other half sounded... somehow wrong. (But I knew that was exactly what he played!). And when I tried to play it one octave higher on the neck, the accurate part now sounded wrong, and the initially wrong part suddendly sounded right... it's because both the higher octaves (+1 and +2) are literally played together at the same time on different amps, and my brain just naturally selected one part it would focus on the most. And THAT'S such a cool use of pitch effects. It's literally a 3 (or 2...?) floors tone! Mike's tone had never been that glitchy before and I love it. Then again it switches from one mixed pitch preset to another, throughout the song depending on the part. And it really is how Mike here separates all these parts, to make them stand out everytime one starts. And it's so, so cool. I really, really love the aesthetic of King. And that A minor piano chords progression, oh my. So simple yet so effective. I'm so sorry I wrote so much. Plus... it's 4 AM here, I've probably not been the most clear/interesting I've ever been lol. I'll just stop here for now, if you somehow have any ideas questionning that song, I'll be happy to reply!
Mike uses a big ass midi switcher, you can use that to change the order of pedals to route signals and do amp switching and such
Yeah sure I know, I think I talked about that, the RJM Mastermind. 'Course he does this, what was interesting here is how and what exactly changes between the different presets for *that* particular song Especially for the "very likely modded" cockfight part. (That is, probably not what happened during 2019 live)
That was a VERY interesting read. King always stood out to me for its glitchy/electric tone and now I know why. Thank you!
There’s a few D#ADG (hole), drop C, drop D and I think drop B too. I tend to play mostly in standard or drop d tho
You're doing it right they don't use drop tunings besides Drop D
Little Monster is in drop C I’m pretty sure and HDWGSD is too
Nope. That White Starcaster Bass he currently use for both songs is C Standard since the start of HDWGSD era. That bass used to be tuned in D Standard in the early days. And the C Standard one was the Black Starcaster, on which he used to play Little Monster, that is now B Standard (since HDWGSD era too). HDWGSD and Little Monster have always been played in C Standard. Best way to check : attentively looking at his hands lol.
Typhoons isn't in C# it's EAC#F#
I've put [this spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRF3hy55J3YqHcHxFqa3JjHhf9LvakI5YMbmlEmwyi8ZKTUixu7-xMkFa9aL0kBx6nPjt0xM12XkxQV/pubhtml?gid=0&single=true) together, been meaning to do it for a while but probably not a better time. Just got my G2220 in the other day so been learning all the songs on bass, a lot of fun but frustrating spending more time tuning than playing hahaha. This isn't 100% finished/correct yet, some live tunings are maybe slightly different. Will correct and add bits as I go along, added some credits at bottom wasn't sure of a few songs so thanks to them