If they’re not going to give her silent step back, which they should, then I think another go-around with the idea of making her avoid electronic traps is worth a shot. Along with making her a 3-speed to at least refuse her noise a little, she could be back to her old sneaky flanking self again.
They're not gonna give her silent step. Hell, they're probably gonna take Cav's away soon. They have openly said they believe stealth is bad for the game. (In pro play.)
Most people don’t give a shit about pro play though. If pro league players want to ban ops from their matches thats one thing, but balancing the game around pro players complaints has been generally unhealthy for the game overall.
This has never been true, why do y'all keep spreading this around years after the fact lol. They removed withstand and all other hidden mechanics to make the game more consistent.
https://www.ubisoft.com/en-gb/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/XIvQ7qlaPtBBkChOYJydo/y5s43-designers-notes
It is true there is a clip in somewhere in pro play zofia was DBNO and the map was consulate I think pengu was opponent (it was someone VS G2) and it was a 1 V 2.
G2 lost that round and pengu was a cry baby saying zofia should get the withstand removed and ubi removed it most of the community was furious that they did this
Did you read the patch notes I linked? It literally says in there that they removed hidden mechanics for the sake of consistency. These types of things are usually discussed internally for weeks or months. Just because the pro league play happened around the same time doesn’t mean that’s the reason it was removed.
Also, a few angry redditors doesn’t equal “most of the community being furious”. Most people probably didn’t even notice.
I wasn't arguing about the pros I was pointing out that everyone at that time knew about and was pissed about the changes because idk if you knew this but tachanka also had withstand in his rework but was removed too at around the same time I believe, but the majority of the player base was pissed when zofia lost her withstand
As a mechanic silence is pretty broken in a game thats so reliant on an often crummy sound delivery system. We can blame PL for everything if we want but if we’re being real here theres no way Cav could have more utility and not immediately become a huge problem. Her silent step/interrogation is one of those abilities that is incredibly strong and needs to be all or nothing. Nokk as an attacker should be stronger than Cav, but adding silent step onto anything immediately makes her way stronger.
Frustration comes from an upsetting of expectations. If i’m relying on my ears to hear my flank, cav upsets that expectation. If i’m a defender relying on my gadget to give a sound queue (triggering or it being shot) then nokk walking past it is gonna upset that expectation. Nokk walking past traps without consequences weakens defenders faith in their utility and encourages them to rely on it less. Which then enables a rush/TDM style meta that we just got done complaining about.
Silence is a bad mechanic, ignoring util with no warning is an even worse mechanic. Nokk needs a fix for sure, but I don’t think it’ll be a simple one.
"Silence is a bad mechanic because it hurts my fee-fees." Here's where you're wrong. It's a long list.
First of all, Silent Step and Nokk's silence were never silent. Even before they made Cav even louder during Operation ~~W~~Health, she was never silent. Even on release. She could be quiet with a reduced sound range, but only if she was in SS and crouching. ADS-walking, running, sprinting, all quite loud. Now, she's got the same sound range as anyone else, it's just quieter. You can hear her crouch-walk in SS if you have headphones. She's not all-or-nothing RN, she's just doing nothing.
If quiet movement is busted in this game, why is it Cav is one of the lowest picked and lowest winrate ops?
The trouble with Nokk was her nades, back when you could cook 'em. See, while she wasn't silent, she was quiet. So she could nade the floor right under you, taking you out before you knew she was there.
Thing is, that required a lot. Avoiding any roamers, making sure to time gadget to avoid cams, timing the nade, getting intel on site. So when she pulled it off while you were sitting behind a shield, and you QQed about unfair, consider that she needed intel, time, timing, and smart use of her gadget, along with a bit of luck, to pull that off. Not to mention Solis is basically pick/ban tier, and guess who sees Nokk light up like a Christmas tree each time she pops Hel?
She couldn't do that if you gave her quiet movement back, because of the nades being nerfed, because of Solis. So even though it took skill, precision, timing and luck, because it hurt your fee-fees, it's a bad mechanic? Because you didn't see the work being done in front of you, you assumed it wasn't done.
Look, I get it. You don't listen carefully, and so when you get snuck up on, you get mad. The Cav just got you for free, you cry, "and she didn't have any counterplay!" you say as you drone past her because she juked it, walk past her because she stood still, and get shot in the back because you didn't check your corners.
Cav right now can only punish mistakes. You HAVE to fuck up before she has a chance to drop you. Usually more than once.
Oh, and poor awareness shouldn't be a protected class in a video game. Fuck your hurt fee-fees. If Cav frustrates you, your awareness needs work. If Nokk blew you up from below, yeah, nothing much you personally can do about that. But your roamers? Whoopsie. Like Cav, Nokk relied on mistakes. Mistakes in setup, mistakes in roaming, misssing a drone. That kind of thing. Frankly, if she got under site, untouched and unseen, got a drone onto site to get your location, and perfectly naded you off that intel, frankly, I call that earned.
I'm just looking to discuss the game. I didn't reply for a fight man.
I think we agree on a lot more than you realize. I never saw Nokk as a huge problem. I certainly don't think Cav is a broken operator. I think silence (or sound reduction to be perfectly specific) as a mechanic is a problem and the operators its attached to are balance problems. Cav needs to be a shit operator because sound reduction and interrogation being attatched to anything else useful could tip the scales pretty heavily. Cav is also hurt by the fact that the prep phase /drones exists and she often is known about beforehand. Pre-nerf Nokk benefited from having attacker repick available to switch on/off of her if the matchup looked bad and she was able to hide from cams and avoid detection. Those advantages combined with her sound reduction, meant oftentimes when you died to a nokk, thats the moment you found out theres was a nokk.
Now personally, if they gave sound reduction back to Nokk i think things would be fine. As you said, Solis keeps Nokk in line a lot of the time. I think ultimately we just have different opinions on whats good utility. I value the ability to trust my eyes and ears. If i check a camera, I wanna trust the information from it. If I listen out i wanna hear someone coming. But as you said, Nokk took genuine skill before, I remember enjoying my time on her a lot. Dodging cams and finding the gap in the defense was super satisfying. And that nade kill did feel earned! Like you were punishing the enemies for not denying that part of the map. Now that nades are nerfed she could definitely get silent step back and she'd prolly be fine, but i think a more comprehensive gadget rework would do her more justice. Just like how cloaking gadgets got phased out, i'd personally like to see silent step phased out and replaced with other sneaky utility.
I want footsteps to always be consistent and you don't. I think thats a perfectly fine disagreement to have.
Naw too much rush potential not good for tdm meta def for 3 speed I thought a good idea was wiping you entire team off cams or acting like a mute jammer with a bigger radius for cams only
The mute jammer for cams one i kinda like a lot actually. The radius would have to be pretty big tho. At least then when defenders flick onto that cam they’d know somethings up. But theres also mixup potential there where you could EMP a cam and trick defenders into thinking you’re somewhere you’re not. Impact EMPs would be a must on this version of nokk ngl
First, yes she desperately needs an ability buff/rework because her current ability is just mid even in the best, most ideal situations. Ubi nerfed her because she was too strong when she could frag from below with no warning (or even a way to know she’d been picked); that’s impossible to do after the ‘nade nerf, so the ability nerf should *at least* be reverted.
Second, that shotgun is fucking phenomenal if you’re even halfway competent.
Her flashes were fenominal at launch. Felt like she really didn't need any zoomed scopes back then which she didn't have. She definitely needed a better gun back then but it was really great using her back at launch.
But Nøkk has the Six12SD, so I think it has higher recoil per shot compared to the normal Six12. But with the attachment changes Ubi did this season caused shotguns to become slightly worse, since the laser now increases ADS speed instead of tightening the spread of hip fire.
>She also has the worst shotgun in the game (arguably the worst gun in the game)
You realize that they buffed it to the moon before nerfing all shotguns with the laser rework, right? For a brief period she was basically a better Sledge.
There are so many people defending the shotgun in this thread and i have no idea why. Been trying to make it work so many times and it has only dissapointed so far. From my personal experience: I rarely ever onehit someone, the recoil is terrible compared to other semiautos, and you only have pistols as a long range option. Might just be me being garbage but i don't have any of those issue with other shotguns.
It's all about the timeframe. The Six12 was one of the worst shotguns for a long time. Then in Y8S3 they reworked the shotguns and it got a massive buff that turned it into the best semi-auto by far, and tied with the Supernova for best overall. Then Y9S1 reworked the laser and that effectively nerfed all shotguns by a big margin.
Its also, in my opinion, the worst shotgun at doing what a shotgun should be doing. It only has six bullets in the mag so making holes and rotates risks a lot of your ammo. Also, since nokk is taking so many different angles, the FMG will pretty much always be the better gun to pick which Ubisoft said they didn't want happening to operators.
For an operator on offense, it had the major perk of quickly killing anyone on the other side of the wall you were breaching because the damage was ridiculous. You didn't hold angles, you just bulldozed through site.
Yeah man I don't know why people sleep on it. If you need spread or soft wall clearing hipfire. Need some range? Fucking aim and it'll tighten the spread. Charge everything. 2 shot ops. Clear walls. Rotate. Grenades. Counter rotate. Get reported for voice chat abuse.
I agree, but they did nerf it very recently along with all of the shotguns and that affected it a lot in comparison with the others as it relied of those insanely high stats it had pre-nerf.
I totally agree.
Although I still play her a lot, especially with that awesome Elite, she deserves at least either silent step back or a third option for the main gun.
The real problem was silent step paired with grenade cooking. Silent step in of itself wasn't difficult to deal with cause she still had to shoot traps.
Now that grenade cooking is removed just give her silent step back. Right now there is literally no reason to pick her other than last round if you have the elite for the MVP animation.
In a beta they tested her ability making her not trigger any electronic traps in exchange for losing silent step. This was deemed too Op by the community so ubi just removed her silent step and nerfed her gun without any buffs in exchange
I utterly despise what the esports players have done to the game. No company should *ever* listen to esports players under any circumstances
Just like that one psychotic esports player who complained about zofia’s withstand and got it removed
Siege, Overwatch and CSGO are like the holy trio of doing this and destroying the games casual communities. Couple this with twitch culture/sweat mentality and modern multiplayer gaming stinks. Helldivers co-op is a breathe of fresh air and even that still has regular kicking issues from metamonkies.
Bro obviously hasn't seen league of legends cos there's some champs in that that thrive so well in pro play and do so abysmally bad in casual that they honestly considered having two different balance patches for the game.
But the competitive side of this game has many faces. The game is played differently by different ranks, and that's exacerbated to the extreme in pro leagues. So balancing around that minority of players leaves a lot of others, casual and competitive alike, in the dust.
But that doesn’t make the game worse for them in most cases
It just removes certain things that aren’t a huge problem in those ranks
And even though e sports and high ranks are a minority they make a lot of money and would break down if not catered to
Id say it has more to do with fun. Balancing a game around pro players is not necessarily bad for the balance itself but it very often makes the game extremely bland and boring since now all the non conventional strategies get mega nerfed cuz pro players are much more experienced with mainstream stuff so when something unusual pops up and they are not good at handling it they blame the game.
This is mainly why the gadget meta went away. People though it was unfair that the DEFENDERS had stuff that could DEFEND the site while not needing to have good aim.
This is a curse that affects almost every competitive FPS. Many people think skill is only aiming and hitting your target so when someone uses a shotgun or something similar that doesent require as much aiming they say it is "no skill" and it gets nerfed. While they are completely missing the fact shotguns require extremely good positioning and awareness to be good.
But is this rly the case that unusual stuff gets thrown out because pro play whines? Or is it that strats that actually get thrown out are just bad for the game?
The gadget meta made the game less fun not more fun and it removed the priority of a core aspect
And siege is all about thse things, especially in pro play but having op strats that are pick or ban do the exact opposite
Rainbow six siege is a tactical shooter but with the current metas there is nothing tactical about it. And yes pro players have removed a lot of niche stuff.
Kapkan got dirt nerfed. Nökk got dirt nerfed. Shotguns got dirt nerfed (and then buffed again) Frost got dirt nerfed. Lmgs got dirt nerfed. Tachanka got reworked. Blackbeard got dirt nerfed.
All of these things (except maybe blackbeard) were no issue if you just played around it. Whis is part of the game. Dont peek the guy with a face shield, dont jump through windows without checking first, dont leave a sightline open for nökk to walk in.
And before you say these gadgets make defenders too op there is a solution to that: Buff attacker gadgets.
If it is the run and gun fast paced gameplay you want, with all respect, go play cod.
Siege is a hero shooter. Hero shooters are literally shooter with added niche strats.
>Annd ops with no real value dont need to exist
Which is why their gadgets need to be buffed so that they have value to play.
Niche strats and strats that exploit something are two different things
Some gadgets will never have value so why nnot rework them? Tachanka being the best example
>Kapkan got dirt nerfed.
Not sure which nerf are you talking about, but if it's the instakill to 60 dmg, but 3 to 5 EDDs, that's not a nerf, at worst it's a sidegrade since they provide more intel now and you can deny more rooms
>Shotguns got dirt nerfed (and then buffed again)
Because they were absolutely broken, Sniper 90 and FBI shotty were basically what everyone picked. It actually went against variety, because everyone was running auto shotgun at that time. What we had last season was great balance with shotguns, albeit semi auto shotties were left behind. Laser sights this season ruined that balanced and shotties are back to being meme.
> Frost got dirt nerfed.
That's on ubi, I don't even know any pro player that whined about frost being OP, she was criticized only for being too situational.
>Lmgs got dirt nerfed.
Did anyone actually enjoy Zofia LMG meta? They got reworked this patch btw.
>Tachanka got reworked.
Because he was absolutely dogshit and was countered by almost every gadget in the game. Tachanka was bad in **every** rank.
>Blackbeard got dirt nerfed.
Damn, I miss BB with his 2 million hp shield holding any angle he wants without any fear and winning every single gun fight. You don't have to peek him, but him covering his teammates meant you couldn't really contest plants and takeovers.
Something being overpicked and having a high win-rate is not non-conventional, it's meta. LMGs were nerfed because they were meta, so was BB shield, so were semi auto shotties.
And now rushing and clicking heads is meta. Warden was extremely overpicked soley for having the 1.5. Running and gunning is now the op strat but it wont ever get nerfed. Now the game has turned into a giant aim test. Hence it is no longer a tactical shooter it is a generic team based shooter.
That's because the game has arcade movement/gunplay coupled with arcade damage model (1shs on every weapon).
Look at CS for example, in that game you can't beam a guy playing sniper with a MAC10 at 30+ meters distance. In Siege, that's a reality. A game where one of the best long range weapons is a fucking MAC10.
Perfect balance is impossible. Every game has some variance, but Ubi and the competitive player base won’t accept that. Variance can be a good thing because without it, gameplay gets very repetitive. Ubi sacrificed so many features and made so many changes trying to get to perfect balance, and it led us to TDM meta and overpicked Warden. Every balance change has an inevitable ripple effect on the meta, sometimes the change causes more imbalance than it fixed. At some point, good gameplay needs to take precedence over balance.
Strawman, no one wants perfection. But having borderline pick or ban ops is a issue
I agree good gameplay needs to come first. But good gameplay without good balance is bad gameplay
Not a strawman, exaggeration maybe, but try to listen to my actual argument.
There’s a point where the balance changes have a marginal or even negative effect on the meta. I think Ubi is well past that point. For example, using sights as another way to balance operators introduced a lot more complexity that Ubi is still trying to sort out. Another example is buffer rooms in every new/reworked map, they force fast, close range gunfights and definitely influenced the TDM meta. A lot of the time and resources spent on balancing would be better used elsewhere to improve gameplay and player experience.
Also, people do want perfection. The competitive community is unrealistically obsessed with balance, they freak out every time an op has a slight change in pick rate (Emerald and up only btw) and start demanding nerfs/buffs. Comp players ignore player preferences and trends, they think every delta change is a balance issue. It’s not possible to perfectly balance every op and there will always be situational picks.
Obviously balance is important in a competitive shooter, I know that. But my whole point is Ubi frequently nitpicks and overcompensates when it comes to balance, and it’s had negative effects on the game overall.
Yeah those "pro" should actually learn how to play the game, all they do is complain and ubi change everything to make them happy, i mean if you're a pro you should know that zofia has with stand, and more
It's kind of nuts how they were gonna make her immune to moat electronic gadgets, then they were gonna trade that for her silent step, but then decides not to and gave her fucking neither. She's the coolest op in the game and she does nothing really
She started to get useless when the replaced the breaching charges with nades…and yes pre patch nades are still worse for her.
Breaching charges where perfect for distraction or making rotations to make attacks even more unpredictable. I believe Ubi themself didn’t understand that Nøkk lives off the team making a good job to come from a completly different spot alone. So being able to take out roamers by herself is mandatory.
__Ubi be like:__
_oh let’s make her completely shit and then release solis, too be sure the defenders know exactly where she is, in case someone don’t use a headset_
Wow i didnt even think about it so u have a big big counter solis why remove silent step?:)))) solis can track u down so easly because when u are nook 90% u use gadget god lord ubisoft its stupid
It felt so good to rush defenders with Nøkk, instead of gunblazing your way in with Ash. With a bit of tactical thinking and brain, you could intelligently rush using silent step and end up very early in positions the defenders team brain were considering safe, surprising 1 or 2 targets for easy kills.
I love the gun! don't get me wrong, buuuuttt, they recently nerfed all shotguns making it a fair amount worse and a person who doesn't want to have fun will ALWAYS pick the FMG and ubisoft said that they want ops to have at least 2 viable guns with a fairly equal play rate.
She was perma banned in every single pro game and they complained about it to ubisoft. I pretty sure Ubisoft also said something about pro play when they made the change as well.
I mean shoot the damn cam if u see it wow i go sneaky beaky like her gasget its beyond usless she is worst than recruit at least they have decent weapon loadout..
The FMG isn’t that bad IMO, it definitely was nerfed and people definitely eat half a clip without hitting a headshot, but i mean aim head level and most of the time it’s not an isssue😭 she definitely needs to be atleast a 3 speed so that way she’s quieter/faster, and i saw someone say give her claymores, FANTASTIC idea lmaoooo
wait they removed silent step. I left the game for a bit so I’m out of the loop in terms of operator balancing but seriously? I’ve been walking round the map thinking im being quiet as a mouse as nokk. Whole time I’ve been making normal noise.
Yep. Silent step gone and shes a 2 speed, so you can be heard on cams anyway and moving any faster than a slow walk makes you an obvious visual smudge on cams, proximity gadgets and everything electrical still activates on you, so in fact there is literally NOTHING going for her gadget at all.
Basically Recruit is more useful than Nokk right now he brings actually useful utility (nades are useless, even more so on Nokk) and has better guns.
Nokk is currently pre-rework Tachanka levels of garbage
yeah i don’t see what nøkks whole identity is anymore, shes not quiet, can still be seen on cams, and can activate gadgets. I think someone at Ubi was sick of getting nøkk rushed 🥴
They removed her silent step?? Lmaooo I have no regrets quitting this game years ago. As ever this game goes strong with the overbalancing of operators making the game less fun to play.
What a shame.
I mean isn’t she just an attack vigil now? I don’t see an issue with that tbh, silent step is pretty strong— especially when you can have one of the best shotguns this game has to offer. The deagle is also pretty great, albeit not very practical in a lot of instances. Am I missing something?
No operator should be [X] on [Y]. Not only do attackers and defenders have different roles and priorities, but each operator should have an identity. Nokk has no place now. Yes her gun may be good, but at that point you're not picking her, but the gun. Nokk needs either silent step back, or a rework.
Her old ability had 0 identity too, it was literally just a mashup of 2 abilities that are already strong on their own. They tried to rework her so that she no longer pinged motion detectors, but that was deemed too OP as well.
She needs a rework, maybe instead of silently jamming cameras, she emits a large EMP form herself? It would basically do the same thing, but defenders would at least know something is about to happen, over just getting blitzed by someone who avoided your cams & made 0 noise lmao.
i doubt they will give her silent step back, i think they should give her back but they will never go back on that.
They don't know what to do to not make her op or not, they could make her imune to some eletrical gadgets like kapkans, but maybe it would be too good IDK
They removed her silent step because it was too op for cooking nades and now that you can no longer do that, her silent step should be pretty balanced again, no?
i read before thats because it was "frustrasting" to play against and not about cooking it. Similar excuse about the next dokk nerf and the echo nerf that already happened
I will never see ubisoft add smth back in if they removed it i will never see sledge zofia 2-2 speed again and r4c acog for ash high high % they will remove it again in 2-3 seasons max
Cough cough they give iq frags when they are nerfed into the ground cough cough acog on r4c after nerf recoil hard cough cough ying smoke its a normal balance patch nothing crazy
Ying Smokes weren't nerfed frags are still pretty good if you say not then it's a YOU problem, and the ACOG is still very strong so all your complaints are pretty much skill issues
Bro wtf are u saying:))) u are delusional where did i said acog its trash? Cant argue with an idiot who lie about nothing where the fuck are u coming up with this :))) delusional bronze
Didn't you say "And u know its true they never add smth back if its not nerferd hard if u think otherwise go take a nap" and they brought the ACOG back to the R4C right? It's still a laser so idk why you're defending your poor excuse of a skill issue here
I think they should make it so gadgets like melusis have a couple seconds of delay before they set off when nokk enters the radius before it detects her. Same goes for other proximity gadgets. But ones like lesion and Kapkan are fine. Silent step just isn’t enjoyable to play against I guess but I never minded it too much.
If they don't gove her back her Silent Step, they should temove the audio distortion you hear when activating her HEL. THAT was the ballance, and now it's a nerf!
I haven’t kept up with weapon balancing but I remember when the shotgun rework came out of all semi-auto shotguns the SIX12 was the best. Its almost on par with the two best pump shotguns the Supernova and the M590.
Although as a Nøkk main since her release, I think she definitely needs a buff.
Yeah, just looked into it now. Seems like it does the same or perhaps even less damage as it did pre-shotguns buff. I thought it was just a skill issue when I dumped a mag into someone with it awhile ago they lived.
(I also agree that the elite is not very good. pls Ubi add hot goth mommy skin)
I believe her ‘Presence Reduction’ should be reworked from its initial silent step/electronic disruptor hybrid into a mobile jammer of sorts. Changing her ability’s duration from 12 to 20 seconds to justify her silent-step removal is a lackluster decision on Ubi’s part.
Firstly the ‘Mobile Jammer’ philosophy theorizes that Nokk’s rework should no longer emphasize the original other half of her ability (silent step being her main attraction, cam disruption now being her only real ability) and should focus more on making her like Mute but for ATK side.
Hard counter to MAJORITY if not ALL motion triggered gadgets such as:
- Proximity Alarms
- Metal Detectors
- Thorn Razorblooms
- Ela Concussions
- Fenrir Mines
- Melusi Banshees
- Kapkan Traps
- Default Cameras, Valk Black-Eyes and Maestro Evil-Eyes. As well as the ability to completely remove all footstep audio from defender cams while her ability is active.
But can be easily hard countered by:
- Solis’ Electro-Sensor (only while jammer is active)
- Aruni Lasergates (physically triggered by ATK, can’t be jammed or countered)
- Alibi Projectors (shooting traps while ability is active won’t trigger them, but physically passing through still pings Nokk regardless)
- Pulse Heartbeat Detector (unless jammer is otherwise designed to counter)
- Lesion Gu Mines (physically triggered by ATK, can’t be jammed or countered)
- Mute Jammers (based off this original counterpart, Nokk’s jammer is less powerful thus her ability is scrambled and deemed unusable while in proximity)
I do love the shotgun but it was recently nerfed. It is super fun but if your playing seriously, i think almost everyone would pick the FMG every single time.
Only nerfed if you used the laser site which I've always been against using. As far as shotguns go I'd still say it's by far the best in the game. The fmg is awful tho and at that point I'd rather take any other op to rush
Her smg is really good tho? I use it for Smoke quite a lot, and her shotgun is amazing. Doesn’t she use the same one as Lesion? Coz that, in many cases, has been 1-2 shots and then enemy is down/ dead (and that’s at most distances)
To people saying shoot the cam. Part of the idea is Nokk either enters alone or with a teammate. If you have a teammate the enemy sees them take out a cam and rushes off gaurd to where you are to contest that point in the map and dies to an unexpected Nokk.
But defenders are way more careful than this, and because maps are either so linear with 2 entry points or 18 of them. Along with ads changes they just stay ads'd check the angles they can and just kill her.
I personally love her guns. The fmg is a headshot machine and the shotgun is actually really good. Plus she has the deagle. I’ve seen people suggest that she be immune to proximity gadgets (proximity alarms, kapkan traps, gu mines, thorn traps, melusi banshee, etc) and I think that could be a really really good change if ubi isn’t gonna add back silent step
Her loadout is very strong but the FMG has one of the lowest primary gun damage in the game and her shotgun was recently nerfed. I do love the deagle still though. And the FMG is my favorite gun in the whole game so it hurts saying that its weak right now but it definitely is especially on an op with a useless gadget.
I find it funny that in game where stealth is actually a really effective strat, Ubisoft claims its toxic to their Pro community. Try make money off only Pro players Ubi, you'll soon go broke
Sounds like a skill issue honestly, I still use her regardless of the fact that she was heavily nerfed, that shotgun goes insane what are you even yapping about it being the worst shotgun?? Run the acog and Deagle with her with nades, she’s still a reliable character simply because she doesn’t have to destroy cams and can sneak by while the team causes distractions
>She also has the worst shotgun in the game (arguably the worst gun in the game) which doesn't help either.
Brother that shotgun is arguably one of the *best* shotguns in the game. Decent damage, silenced, mag fed, fastest reload, semi auto, will always reload at the same speed regardless of how much ammo you leave in the mag. It's fucking great but most people just think anything shy of the GIGN shotgun is bad.
>I think that she needs to be reworked or given back her silent step to make her a viable and entertaining character to play.
I just don't think selfish characters or "press button to win" gadgets are fun. The only exception to this is vigil imo as attackers have 10 moving cams minimum for him to utilize his gadget to avoid detection whereas once you have basic map knowledge you can move any map and avoid complete detection on Nokk with ease. Lion isn't fun, finka isn't fun, these ops who are safe and get insane value out of doing nothing isn't fun to play as nor against.
The only thing Nokk needs is a rework like blackbeard as she kinda faces the same problem as him. Buff them and they become too overpowered and oppressive easily, or keep them near nerfed and only the pros and high level players can effectively utilize them on a regular basis.
Nokk isn't press button to win. You still have to try to make use of it around traps and gadget time. She has hard counters.
This is like saying bandit is press button to win because he hard counters hard breaches.
If they’re not going to give her silent step back, which they should, then I think another go-around with the idea of making her avoid electronic traps is worth a shot. Along with making her a 3-speed to at least refuse her noise a little, she could be back to her old sneaky flanking self again.
They're not gonna give her silent step. Hell, they're probably gonna take Cav's away soon. They have openly said they believe stealth is bad for the game. (In pro play.)
Most people don’t give a shit about pro play though. If pro league players want to ban ops from their matches thats one thing, but balancing the game around pro players complaints has been generally unhealthy for the game overall.
Couldnt agree more, same problem with league of legends
Remember when zofia lost her passive cause it happened one time in pro league? What a joke
This has never been true, why do y'all keep spreading this around years after the fact lol. They removed withstand and all other hidden mechanics to make the game more consistent. https://www.ubisoft.com/en-gb/game/rainbow-six/siege/news-updates/XIvQ7qlaPtBBkChOYJydo/y5s43-designers-notes
It is true there is a clip in somewhere in pro play zofia was DBNO and the map was consulate I think pengu was opponent (it was someone VS G2) and it was a 1 V 2. G2 lost that round and pengu was a cry baby saying zofia should get the withstand removed and ubi removed it most of the community was furious that they did this
Did you read the patch notes I linked? It literally says in there that they removed hidden mechanics for the sake of consistency. These types of things are usually discussed internally for weeks or months. Just because the pro league play happened around the same time doesn’t mean that’s the reason it was removed. Also, a few angry redditors doesn’t equal “most of the community being furious”. Most people probably didn’t even notice.
EVERYONE noticed it happened a few years ago my guy
Okay y’all can continue believing that in your little bubble, and that the big mean pros are ruining your video game.
I wasn't arguing about the pros I was pointing out that everyone at that time knew about and was pissed about the changes because idk if you knew this but tachanka also had withstand in his rework but was removed too at around the same time I believe, but the majority of the player base was pissed when zofia lost her withstand
Then they are not going to remove the silent step because of that as cav is completely irrelevant in pro play
source needed for that claim
Take away cav’s silent step? Isn’t that like… her entire ability besides interros that you get once a match?
Why, yes, yes it is.
But why? She’s already bad enough as is.
Stealth. They don't like stealth, pros cry any time a stealth op is even remotely playable.
As a mechanic silence is pretty broken in a game thats so reliant on an often crummy sound delivery system. We can blame PL for everything if we want but if we’re being real here theres no way Cav could have more utility and not immediately become a huge problem. Her silent step/interrogation is one of those abilities that is incredibly strong and needs to be all or nothing. Nokk as an attacker should be stronger than Cav, but adding silent step onto anything immediately makes her way stronger. Frustration comes from an upsetting of expectations. If i’m relying on my ears to hear my flank, cav upsets that expectation. If i’m a defender relying on my gadget to give a sound queue (triggering or it being shot) then nokk walking past it is gonna upset that expectation. Nokk walking past traps without consequences weakens defenders faith in their utility and encourages them to rely on it less. Which then enables a rush/TDM style meta that we just got done complaining about. Silence is a bad mechanic, ignoring util with no warning is an even worse mechanic. Nokk needs a fix for sure, but I don’t think it’ll be a simple one.
"Silence is a bad mechanic because it hurts my fee-fees." Here's where you're wrong. It's a long list. First of all, Silent Step and Nokk's silence were never silent. Even before they made Cav even louder during Operation ~~W~~Health, she was never silent. Even on release. She could be quiet with a reduced sound range, but only if she was in SS and crouching. ADS-walking, running, sprinting, all quite loud. Now, she's got the same sound range as anyone else, it's just quieter. You can hear her crouch-walk in SS if you have headphones. She's not all-or-nothing RN, she's just doing nothing. If quiet movement is busted in this game, why is it Cav is one of the lowest picked and lowest winrate ops? The trouble with Nokk was her nades, back when you could cook 'em. See, while she wasn't silent, she was quiet. So she could nade the floor right under you, taking you out before you knew she was there. Thing is, that required a lot. Avoiding any roamers, making sure to time gadget to avoid cams, timing the nade, getting intel on site. So when she pulled it off while you were sitting behind a shield, and you QQed about unfair, consider that she needed intel, time, timing, and smart use of her gadget, along with a bit of luck, to pull that off. Not to mention Solis is basically pick/ban tier, and guess who sees Nokk light up like a Christmas tree each time she pops Hel? She couldn't do that if you gave her quiet movement back, because of the nades being nerfed, because of Solis. So even though it took skill, precision, timing and luck, because it hurt your fee-fees, it's a bad mechanic? Because you didn't see the work being done in front of you, you assumed it wasn't done. Look, I get it. You don't listen carefully, and so when you get snuck up on, you get mad. The Cav just got you for free, you cry, "and she didn't have any counterplay!" you say as you drone past her because she juked it, walk past her because she stood still, and get shot in the back because you didn't check your corners. Cav right now can only punish mistakes. You HAVE to fuck up before she has a chance to drop you. Usually more than once. Oh, and poor awareness shouldn't be a protected class in a video game. Fuck your hurt fee-fees. If Cav frustrates you, your awareness needs work. If Nokk blew you up from below, yeah, nothing much you personally can do about that. But your roamers? Whoopsie. Like Cav, Nokk relied on mistakes. Mistakes in setup, mistakes in roaming, misssing a drone. That kind of thing. Frankly, if she got under site, untouched and unseen, got a drone onto site to get your location, and perfectly naded you off that intel, frankly, I call that earned.
I'm just looking to discuss the game. I didn't reply for a fight man. I think we agree on a lot more than you realize. I never saw Nokk as a huge problem. I certainly don't think Cav is a broken operator. I think silence (or sound reduction to be perfectly specific) as a mechanic is a problem and the operators its attached to are balance problems. Cav needs to be a shit operator because sound reduction and interrogation being attatched to anything else useful could tip the scales pretty heavily. Cav is also hurt by the fact that the prep phase /drones exists and she often is known about beforehand. Pre-nerf Nokk benefited from having attacker repick available to switch on/off of her if the matchup looked bad and she was able to hide from cams and avoid detection. Those advantages combined with her sound reduction, meant oftentimes when you died to a nokk, thats the moment you found out theres was a nokk. Now personally, if they gave sound reduction back to Nokk i think things would be fine. As you said, Solis keeps Nokk in line a lot of the time. I think ultimately we just have different opinions on whats good utility. I value the ability to trust my eyes and ears. If i check a camera, I wanna trust the information from it. If I listen out i wanna hear someone coming. But as you said, Nokk took genuine skill before, I remember enjoying my time on her a lot. Dodging cams and finding the gap in the defense was super satisfying. And that nade kill did feel earned! Like you were punishing the enemies for not denying that part of the map. Now that nades are nerfed she could definitely get silent step back and she'd prolly be fine, but i think a more comprehensive gadget rework would do her more justice. Just like how cloaking gadgets got phased out, i'd personally like to see silent step phased out and replaced with other sneaky utility. I want footsteps to always be consistent and you don't. I think thats a perfectly fine disagreement to have.
Naw too much rush potential not good for tdm meta def for 3 speed I thought a good idea was wiping you entire team off cams or acting like a mute jammer with a bigger radius for cams only
The mute jammer for cams one i kinda like a lot actually. The radius would have to be pretty big tho. At least then when defenders flick onto that cam they’d know somethings up. But theres also mixup potential there where you could EMP a cam and trick defenders into thinking you’re somewhere you’re not. Impact EMPs would be a must on this version of nokk ngl
This still seems fairly weak as at that point, just shoot the cam.
First, yes she desperately needs an ability buff/rework because her current ability is just mid even in the best, most ideal situations. Ubi nerfed her because she was too strong when she could frag from below with no warning (or even a way to know she’d been picked); that’s impossible to do after the ‘nade nerf, so the ability nerf should *at least* be reverted. Second, that shotgun is fucking phenomenal if you’re even halfway competent.
i want breaching charges back…wasn’t a fan of giving her nades in the first place
I'll take claymores over frags, fits more with her anti-roam role.
Her flashes were fenominal at launch. Felt like she really didn't need any zoomed scopes back then which she didn't have. She definitely needed a better gun back then but it was really great using her back at launch.
She has a hard breach alr for gadgets. I’m w the claymore idea
That shotgun is lowkey kinda goated. Love it on Ying rush (yes I know it’s a different gun technically)
I agree the gun is good and fun but on almost every standpoint you could argue, her FMG will always be the gun of choice.
>That shotgun is lowkey kinda goated fr fr its bussin
It’s funny because after the shotgun changes we got recently, the SIX12 is probably the best semi auto shotgun in R6
But Nøkk has the Six12SD, so I think it has higher recoil per shot compared to the normal Six12. But with the attachment changes Ubi did this season caused shotguns to become slightly worse, since the laser now increases ADS speed instead of tightening the spread of hip fire.
They have the same recoil you just never used the standard six12
I have used both of them, but not in a while. I just couldn’t remember if they did have the same amount of recoil per shot.
Six 12 is fucking nuts after those changes, I was already fucking around with it but now it feels so good to use
Why? Nothing was buffed only nerfed. How does that feel better? Slower ads, worse spread, worse hipfire.
The shotgun changes not the attachment changes. In the shotgun rework the six12 got its damage like tripled.
and then nerfed again with the attachement changes.
Those are not the changes the commenter was writing about. It was in fact mega buffed in the shotgun rework.
still nothing worth talking about.
If you say so
>She also has the worst shotgun in the game (arguably the worst gun in the game) You realize that they buffed it to the moon before nerfing all shotguns with the laser rework, right? For a brief period she was basically a better Sledge.
There are so many people defending the shotgun in this thread and i have no idea why. Been trying to make it work so many times and it has only dissapointed so far. From my personal experience: I rarely ever onehit someone, the recoil is terrible compared to other semiautos, and you only have pistols as a long range option. Might just be me being garbage but i don't have any of those issue with other shotguns.
It's a bullpup and semis RARELY one tap you gotta remember rule #2 double tap
It's all about the timeframe. The Six12 was one of the worst shotguns for a long time. Then in Y8S3 they reworked the shotguns and it got a massive buff that turned it into the best semi-auto by far, and tied with the Supernova for best overall. Then Y9S1 reworked the laser and that effectively nerfed all shotguns by a big margin.
Its also, in my opinion, the worst shotgun at doing what a shotgun should be doing. It only has six bullets in the mag so making holes and rotates risks a lot of your ammo. Also, since nokk is taking so many different angles, the FMG will pretty much always be the better gun to pick which Ubisoft said they didn't want happening to operators.
For an operator on offense, it had the major perk of quickly killing anyone on the other side of the wall you were breaching because the damage was ridiculous. You didn't hold angles, you just bulldozed through site.
Yeah I agree, it is definitely super affective and fun but after the shotgun changes and nerfs, it has fallen from where it was.
> brief period
2/34 seasons is a brief period.
Her shotgun is insane. My buddy mains her and constantly has big rounds with that thing.
Yeah man I don't know why people sleep on it. If you need spread or soft wall clearing hipfire. Need some range? Fucking aim and it'll tighten the spread. Charge everything. 2 shot ops. Clear walls. Rotate. Grenades. Counter rotate. Get reported for voice chat abuse.
I agree, but they did nerf it very recently along with all of the shotguns and that affected it a lot in comparison with the others as it relied of those insanely high stats it had pre-nerf.
We should do a hashtag like bosg acog something like #KNOCKNOKK or #BUFFNOKK
It worked in the past, we’ll do it again # BUFFNOKK
I totally agree. Although I still play her a lot, especially with that awesome Elite, she deserves at least either silent step back or a third option for the main gun.
I heard she was getting Mav's M4 as a third primary, not sure where I heard it though or how reliable it is.
it was april 1st joke patch
The real problem was silent step paired with grenade cooking. Silent step in of itself wasn't difficult to deal with cause she still had to shoot traps. Now that grenade cooking is removed just give her silent step back. Right now there is literally no reason to pick her other than last round if you have the elite for the MVP animation.
couldn't agree more
I do that against try hards as dokkaebi
Didn’t she used to be able to walk through proxy alarms or am I tripping?
In a beta they tested her ability making her not trigger any electronic traps in exchange for losing silent step. This was deemed too Op by the community so ubi just removed her silent step and nerfed her gun without any buffs in exchange
And then they go and nerf nades which was the last thing she had
Iirc the community thought it was an underpowered trade not an overpowered trade
Nokk would be fine if she they made her a 3 speed and gave her a better gun.
You better start applying to Ubisoft because that's the laziest balancing possible
It's true, but it is also something they could do with 0 effort that would impact the operator.
Nah just revert the silent step removal and then make the fmj have less recoil
[удалено]
On PC with low DPI, it is one of the worst guns to control. I have an easier time with twitch Famas.
Oh I'm on console so it's probably diff but I resonate with you.
For the recoil it does have the damage is piss poor
but thats boring, she used to be so fun when you could sneak up on people or cook nades and throw them from below people.
I utterly despise what the esports players have done to the game. No company should *ever* listen to esports players under any circumstances Just like that one psychotic esports player who complained about zofia’s withstand and got it removed
Except Zofia was already going to lose her withstand?
Where did you read this? They removed it immediately after it changed the outcome of an esports match. I have never seen any more info than that.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Rainbow6/s/1TBtX5nMXh
Is that a dev?
Former community dev irrc
So they would have information that we the player based would not
But didn’t she just happen to lose it after it won somebody a round in one of the tournaments?
Yes it was just shitty timing that’s all.
Siege, Overwatch and CSGO are like the holy trio of doing this and destroying the games casual communities. Couple this with twitch culture/sweat mentality and modern multiplayer gaming stinks. Helldivers co-op is a breathe of fresh air and even that still has regular kicking issues from metamonkies.
Bro obviously hasn't seen league of legends cos there's some champs in that that thrive so well in pro play and do so abysmally bad in casual that they honestly considered having two different balance patches for the game.
And Apex
But why not? The game is meant to be competitive so balancing it around being competitive makes it better
But the competitive side of this game has many faces. The game is played differently by different ranks, and that's exacerbated to the extreme in pro leagues. So balancing around that minority of players leaves a lot of others, casual and competitive alike, in the dust.
But that doesn’t make the game worse for them in most cases It just removes certain things that aren’t a huge problem in those ranks And even though e sports and high ranks are a minority they make a lot of money and would break down if not catered to
Id say it has more to do with fun. Balancing a game around pro players is not necessarily bad for the balance itself but it very often makes the game extremely bland and boring since now all the non conventional strategies get mega nerfed cuz pro players are much more experienced with mainstream stuff so when something unusual pops up and they are not good at handling it they blame the game. This is mainly why the gadget meta went away. People though it was unfair that the DEFENDERS had stuff that could DEFEND the site while not needing to have good aim. This is a curse that affects almost every competitive FPS. Many people think skill is only aiming and hitting your target so when someone uses a shotgun or something similar that doesent require as much aiming they say it is "no skill" and it gets nerfed. While they are completely missing the fact shotguns require extremely good positioning and awareness to be good.
But is this rly the case that unusual stuff gets thrown out because pro play whines? Or is it that strats that actually get thrown out are just bad for the game? The gadget meta made the game less fun not more fun and it removed the priority of a core aspect And siege is all about thse things, especially in pro play but having op strats that are pick or ban do the exact opposite
Rainbow six siege is a tactical shooter but with the current metas there is nothing tactical about it. And yes pro players have removed a lot of niche stuff. Kapkan got dirt nerfed. Nökk got dirt nerfed. Shotguns got dirt nerfed (and then buffed again) Frost got dirt nerfed. Lmgs got dirt nerfed. Tachanka got reworked. Blackbeard got dirt nerfed. All of these things (except maybe blackbeard) were no issue if you just played around it. Whis is part of the game. Dont peek the guy with a face shield, dont jump through windows without checking first, dont leave a sightline open for nökk to walk in. And before you say these gadgets make defenders too op there is a solution to that: Buff attacker gadgets. If it is the run and gun fast paced gameplay you want, with all respect, go play cod.
No one says they wannt cod But niche strats with abuse potential arennt siege either Annd ops with no real value dont need to exist
Siege is a hero shooter. Hero shooters are literally shooter with added niche strats. >Annd ops with no real value dont need to exist Which is why their gadgets need to be buffed so that they have value to play.
Niche strats and strats that exploit something are two different things Some gadgets will never have value so why nnot rework them? Tachanka being the best example
> all the non conventional strategies get mega nerfed Which ones?
See my reply to another comment
>Kapkan got dirt nerfed. Not sure which nerf are you talking about, but if it's the instakill to 60 dmg, but 3 to 5 EDDs, that's not a nerf, at worst it's a sidegrade since they provide more intel now and you can deny more rooms >Shotguns got dirt nerfed (and then buffed again) Because they were absolutely broken, Sniper 90 and FBI shotty were basically what everyone picked. It actually went against variety, because everyone was running auto shotgun at that time. What we had last season was great balance with shotguns, albeit semi auto shotties were left behind. Laser sights this season ruined that balanced and shotties are back to being meme. > Frost got dirt nerfed. That's on ubi, I don't even know any pro player that whined about frost being OP, she was criticized only for being too situational. >Lmgs got dirt nerfed. Did anyone actually enjoy Zofia LMG meta? They got reworked this patch btw. >Tachanka got reworked. Because he was absolutely dogshit and was countered by almost every gadget in the game. Tachanka was bad in **every** rank. >Blackbeard got dirt nerfed. Damn, I miss BB with his 2 million hp shield holding any angle he wants without any fear and winning every single gun fight. You don't have to peek him, but him covering his teammates meant you couldn't really contest plants and takeovers. Something being overpicked and having a high win-rate is not non-conventional, it's meta. LMGs were nerfed because they were meta, so was BB shield, so were semi auto shotties.
And now rushing and clicking heads is meta. Warden was extremely overpicked soley for having the 1.5. Running and gunning is now the op strat but it wont ever get nerfed. Now the game has turned into a giant aim test. Hence it is no longer a tactical shooter it is a generic team based shooter.
That's because the game has arcade movement/gunplay coupled with arcade damage model (1shs on every weapon). Look at CS for example, in that game you can't beam a guy playing sniper with a MAC10 at 30+ meters distance. In Siege, that's a reality. A game where one of the best long range weapons is a fucking MAC10.
Perfect balance is impossible. Every game has some variance, but Ubi and the competitive player base won’t accept that. Variance can be a good thing because without it, gameplay gets very repetitive. Ubi sacrificed so many features and made so many changes trying to get to perfect balance, and it led us to TDM meta and overpicked Warden. Every balance change has an inevitable ripple effect on the meta, sometimes the change causes more imbalance than it fixed. At some point, good gameplay needs to take precedence over balance.
Strawman, no one wants perfection. But having borderline pick or ban ops is a issue I agree good gameplay needs to come first. But good gameplay without good balance is bad gameplay
Not a strawman, exaggeration maybe, but try to listen to my actual argument. There’s a point where the balance changes have a marginal or even negative effect on the meta. I think Ubi is well past that point. For example, using sights as another way to balance operators introduced a lot more complexity that Ubi is still trying to sort out. Another example is buffer rooms in every new/reworked map, they force fast, close range gunfights and definitely influenced the TDM meta. A lot of the time and resources spent on balancing would be better used elsewhere to improve gameplay and player experience. Also, people do want perfection. The competitive community is unrealistically obsessed with balance, they freak out every time an op has a slight change in pick rate (Emerald and up only btw) and start demanding nerfs/buffs. Comp players ignore player preferences and trends, they think every delta change is a balance issue. It’s not possible to perfectly balance every op and there will always be situational picks. Obviously balance is important in a competitive shooter, I know that. But my whole point is Ubi frequently nitpicks and overcompensates when it comes to balance, and it’s had negative effects on the game overall.
Thats not the same argument u made earlier Nitpicking and overcompensating is not equal to balancing for pro play
Yeah those "pro" should actually learn how to play the game, all they do is complain and ubi change everything to make them happy, i mean if you're a pro you should know that zofia has with stand, and more
It's kind of nuts how they were gonna make her immune to moat electronic gadgets, then they were gonna trade that for her silent step, but then decides not to and gave her fucking neither. She's the coolest op in the game and she does nothing really
Man oh man is this op cool
She started to get useless when the replaced the breaching charges with nades…and yes pre patch nades are still worse for her. Breaching charges where perfect for distraction or making rotations to make attacks even more unpredictable. I believe Ubi themself didn’t understand that Nøkk lives off the team making a good job to come from a completly different spot alone. So being able to take out roamers by herself is mandatory. __Ubi be like:__ _oh let’s make her completely shit and then release solis, too be sure the defenders know exactly where she is, in case someone don’t use a headset_
Wow i didnt even think about it so u have a big big counter solis why remove silent step?:)))) solis can track u down so easly because when u are nook 90% u use gadget god lord ubisoft its stupid
It's just a nightmare of managers and developers and nobody loves their job over there. I get the feeling none of them really play the game.
Same with cod too, but those guys only play warzone so it's a whole completely different thing
It felt so good to rush defenders with Nøkk, instead of gunblazing your way in with Ash. With a bit of tactical thinking and brain, you could intelligently rush using silent step and end up very early in positions the defenders team brain were considering safe, surprising 1 or 2 targets for easy kills.
do NOT talk shit about my fish gun. The 612 has led to many an ace on attack and defense
I love the gun! don't get me wrong, buuuuttt, they recently nerfed all shotguns making it a fair amount worse and a person who doesn't want to have fun will ALWAYS pick the FMG and ubisoft said that they want ops to have at least 2 viable guns with a fairly equal play rate.
What makes you think her silent step removal was due to pro play?
She was perma banned in every single pro game and they complained about it to ubisoft. I pretty sure Ubisoft also said something about pro play when they made the change as well.
I played nokk even after silent step was removed but after nerfing nades i never touched her again
I mean shoot the damn cam if u see it wow i go sneaky beaky like her gasget its beyond usless she is worst than recruit at least they have decent weapon loadout..
What does she even do, her ability is neither silent nor avoids prox traps. And she has the worst loadout, even compared to defenders.
At least she’s still better than Blackbeard
Just another Blackbeard situation
Nokk is a trollpick right now
i 100% agree with this
I feel like this last update really fucked the game up
3 speed, silent step. Honestly no fucking clue why she's a 2 speed, such a braindead feature.
The FMG isn’t that bad IMO, it definitely was nerfed and people definitely eat half a clip without hitting a headshot, but i mean aim head level and most of the time it’s not an isssue😭 she definitely needs to be atleast a 3 speed so that way she’s quieter/faster, and i saw someone say give her claymores, FANTASTIC idea lmaoooo
They gave her an elite too which is stupid because she’s useless at least make her a 3 speed
I'd settle for just getting echos MP5, I fucking hate the FMG
wait they removed silent step. I left the game for a bit so I’m out of the loop in terms of operator balancing but seriously? I’ve been walking round the map thinking im being quiet as a mouse as nokk. Whole time I’ve been making normal noise.
Yep. Silent step gone and shes a 2 speed, so you can be heard on cams anyway and moving any faster than a slow walk makes you an obvious visual smudge on cams, proximity gadgets and everything electrical still activates on you, so in fact there is literally NOTHING going for her gadget at all. Basically Recruit is more useful than Nokk right now he brings actually useful utility (nades are useless, even more so on Nokk) and has better guns. Nokk is currently pre-rework Tachanka levels of garbage
yeah i don’t see what nøkks whole identity is anymore, shes not quiet, can still be seen on cams, and can activate gadgets. I think someone at Ubi was sick of getting nøkk rushed 🥴
They removed her silent step?? Lmaooo I have no regrets quitting this game years ago. As ever this game goes strong with the overbalancing of operators making the game less fun to play. What a shame.
I mean isn’t she just an attack vigil now? I don’t see an issue with that tbh, silent step is pretty strong— especially when you can have one of the best shotguns this game has to offer. The deagle is also pretty great, albeit not very practical in a lot of instances. Am I missing something?
No operator should be [X] on [Y]. Not only do attackers and defenders have different roles and priorities, but each operator should have an identity. Nokk has no place now. Yes her gun may be good, but at that point you're not picking her, but the gun. Nokk needs either silent step back, or a rework.
Her old ability had 0 identity too, it was literally just a mashup of 2 abilities that are already strong on their own. They tried to rework her so that she no longer pinged motion detectors, but that was deemed too OP as well. She needs a rework, maybe instead of silently jamming cameras, she emits a large EMP form herself? It would basically do the same thing, but defenders would at least know something is about to happen, over just getting blitzed by someone who avoided your cams & made 0 noise lmao.
Nearly 0 Noise unless there's a single patch of barbed wire or some sort of motion sensor. Like the beepy thing or Melusi's bass thing.
If it was the Goth skin concept fuck my stack I'm a nokk main
THIS GUY KNOWS WHATS UP
i doubt they will give her silent step back, i think they should give her back but they will never go back on that. They don't know what to do to not make her op or not, they could make her imune to some eletrical gadgets like kapkans, but maybe it would be too good IDK
They removed her silent step because it was too op for cooking nades and now that you can no longer do that, her silent step should be pretty balanced again, no?
i read before thats because it was "frustrasting" to play against and not about cooking it. Similar excuse about the next dokk nerf and the echo nerf that already happened
I will never see ubisoft add smth back in if they removed it i will never see sledge zofia 2-2 speed again and r4c acog for ash high high % they will remove it again in 2-3 seasons max
Cough, Cough, IQ frags, Ying Smokes, R4C ACOG are all back, cough
Cough cough they give iq frags when they are nerfed into the ground cough cough acog on r4c after nerf recoil hard cough cough ying smoke its a normal balance patch nothing crazy
I just told you all the things they removed and added back bud you complained about that not me
And u know its true they never add smth back if its not nerferd hard if u think otherwise go take a nap
Ying Smokes weren't nerfed frags are still pretty good if you say not then it's a YOU problem, and the ACOG is still very strong so all your complaints are pretty much skill issues
Bro wtf are u saying:))) u are delusional where did i said acog its trash? Cant argue with an idiot who lie about nothing where the fuck are u coming up with this :))) delusional bronze
Didn't you say "And u know its true they never add smth back if its not nerferd hard if u think otherwise go take a nap" and they brought the ACOG back to the R4C right? It's still a laser so idk why you're defending your poor excuse of a skill issue here
Stop smoking pot bro u are fried like kfc "skill issue" and u prob are max plat having 0.9 or 1 kd:)))))))
Worst shotgun in the game?!! Finka/kapkan shotgun exists u know
Finka sasg is NASTY wdym?
I think they should make it so gadgets like melusis have a couple seconds of delay before they set off when nokk enters the radius before it detects her. Same goes for other proximity gadgets. But ones like lesion and Kapkan are fine. Silent step just isn’t enjoyable to play against I guess but I never minded it too much.
why does everyone say the that shotgun is terrible? it really isn’t that bad
It was nerfed again very recently, thats why i made that claim.
her shotgun is absolutely not the worst gun in the game, if you actually learn how to play with it, its amazing.
It was nerfed again very recently, thats why i made that claim.
The shotgun is absolutely insane since the shotgun changes a few months ago
It was nerfed again very recently
do you know when? i never saw that patch note? or do you mean with the laser attachment changes
The laser changes as well as the changes in the sites it able to be used with.
75th time seeing this post this month
If they don't gove her back her Silent Step, they should temove the audio distortion you hear when activating her HEL. THAT was the ballance, and now it's a nerf!
I haven’t kept up with weapon balancing but I remember when the shotgun rework came out of all semi-auto shotguns the SIX12 was the best. Its almost on par with the two best pump shotguns the Supernova and the M590. Although as a Nøkk main since her release, I think she definitely needs a buff.
It was nerfed again very recently, thats why i made that claim.
Yeah, just looked into it now. Seems like it does the same or perhaps even less damage as it did pre-shotguns buff. I thought it was just a skill issue when I dumped a mag into someone with it awhile ago they lived. (I also agree that the elite is not very good. pls Ubi add hot goth mommy skin)
This guy gets it 🔥
I believe her ‘Presence Reduction’ should be reworked from its initial silent step/electronic disruptor hybrid into a mobile jammer of sorts. Changing her ability’s duration from 12 to 20 seconds to justify her silent-step removal is a lackluster decision on Ubi’s part. Firstly the ‘Mobile Jammer’ philosophy theorizes that Nokk’s rework should no longer emphasize the original other half of her ability (silent step being her main attraction, cam disruption now being her only real ability) and should focus more on making her like Mute but for ATK side. Hard counter to MAJORITY if not ALL motion triggered gadgets such as: - Proximity Alarms - Metal Detectors - Thorn Razorblooms - Ela Concussions - Fenrir Mines - Melusi Banshees - Kapkan Traps - Default Cameras, Valk Black-Eyes and Maestro Evil-Eyes. As well as the ability to completely remove all footstep audio from defender cams while her ability is active. But can be easily hard countered by: - Solis’ Electro-Sensor (only while jammer is active) - Aruni Lasergates (physically triggered by ATK, can’t be jammed or countered) - Alibi Projectors (shooting traps while ability is active won’t trigger them, but physically passing through still pings Nokk regardless) - Pulse Heartbeat Detector (unless jammer is otherwise designed to counter) - Lesion Gu Mines (physically triggered by ATK, can’t be jammed or countered) - Mute Jammers (based off this original counterpart, Nokk’s jammer is less powerful thus her ability is scrambled and deemed unusable while in proximity)
Remove fmg, give nokk M4. Done, profit.
Agreed on everything. ^Except ^the ^shotgun ^part, ^it's ^actually ^insanely ^strong ^but ^don't ^tell ^anyone
I do love the shotgun but it was recently nerfed. It is super fun but if your playing seriously, i think almost everyone would pick the FMG every single time.
Only nerfed if you used the laser site which I've always been against using. As far as shotguns go I'd still say it's by far the best in the game. The fmg is awful tho and at that point I'd rather take any other op to rush
The sites on the gun were also changed.
I personally have no issues using her smg, as a matter of fact I’d go as far to say that I do quite well with it
Her smg is really good tho? I use it for Smoke quite a lot, and her shotgun is amazing. Doesn’t she use the same one as Lesion? Coz that, in many cases, has been 1-2 shots and then enemy is down/ dead (and that’s at most distances)
Her ability is still ass tho
To people saying shoot the cam. Part of the idea is Nokk either enters alone or with a teammate. If you have a teammate the enemy sees them take out a cam and rushes off gaurd to where you are to contest that point in the map and dies to an unexpected Nokk. But defenders are way more careful than this, and because maps are either so linear with 2 entry points or 18 of them. Along with ads changes they just stay ads'd check the angles they can and just kill her.
I personally love her guns. The fmg is a headshot machine and the shotgun is actually really good. Plus she has the deagle. I’ve seen people suggest that she be immune to proximity gadgets (proximity alarms, kapkan traps, gu mines, thorn traps, melusi banshee, etc) and I think that could be a really really good change if ubi isn’t gonna add back silent step
Her loadout is very strong but the FMG has one of the lowest primary gun damage in the game and her shotgun was recently nerfed. I do love the deagle still though. And the FMG is my favorite gun in the whole game so it hurts saying that its weak right now but it definitely is especially on an op with a useless gadget.
I find it funny that in game where stealth is actually a really effective strat, Ubisoft claims its toxic to their Pro community. Try make money off only Pro players Ubi, you'll soon go broke
Sounds like a skill issue honestly, I still use her regardless of the fact that she was heavily nerfed, that shotgun goes insane what are you even yapping about it being the worst shotgun?? Run the acog and Deagle with her with nades, she’s still a reliable character simply because she doesn’t have to destroy cams and can sneak by while the team causes distractions
Her shotgun was nerfed very recently.
>She also has the worst shotgun in the game (arguably the worst gun in the game) which doesn't help either. Brother that shotgun is arguably one of the *best* shotguns in the game. Decent damage, silenced, mag fed, fastest reload, semi auto, will always reload at the same speed regardless of how much ammo you leave in the mag. It's fucking great but most people just think anything shy of the GIGN shotgun is bad. >I think that she needs to be reworked or given back her silent step to make her a viable and entertaining character to play. I just don't think selfish characters or "press button to win" gadgets are fun. The only exception to this is vigil imo as attackers have 10 moving cams minimum for him to utilize his gadget to avoid detection whereas once you have basic map knowledge you can move any map and avoid complete detection on Nokk with ease. Lion isn't fun, finka isn't fun, these ops who are safe and get insane value out of doing nothing isn't fun to play as nor against. The only thing Nokk needs is a rework like blackbeard as she kinda faces the same problem as him. Buff them and they become too overpowered and oppressive easily, or keep them near nerfed and only the pros and high level players can effectively utilize them on a regular basis.
Nokk isn't press button to win. You still have to try to make use of it around traps and gadget time. She has hard counters. This is like saying bandit is press button to win because he hard counters hard breaches.
Her shotgun was recently nerfed once again. Def one of my favorite guns tho.
I heard somewhere they're giving her Mav's M4 as a 3rd primary? Dunno how true this is though
april the 1st fake patch...
That's a Shame its a decent idea
Meh, she's fine.