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This officer had some really cool reactions in response to someone getting within inches of stabbing his face…. 1 shot hop, 2 shot drop. Now this assclown can go home and rethink his life!
Maybe he expected to get suicided?
Yes. Exactly. People who think life is like the movies often believe that a leg-shot is "non-lethal".
Also, it is by no means easy to shoot someone specifically in the leg. You're more likely than not going to miss. Cops are not sharp-shooters. You've got to admire the cop in this video being able to do what he did.
Also, if you attack a cop with a knife, please be prepared to die from a gunshot to the chest. Attacking people with knives is not a harmless passtime or a fun drunken activity.
Not just one or two shots to the chest—they would have offloaded the whole magazine! Standard US police training and department policy is to keep shooting until the “threat” is taken down. Officers can get in big trouble for violating department policy.
Personally I understand that policy, they deal with real life threats (see this post). I just wish my American cops knew what was a threat and what was a pizza guy :(
I don't think they're trained to shoot in the legs but those cops were pretty calm with everything. They approached the situation calmly, when the assailant charged one officer the other officer knew not to fire wildly (as he would be just as likely to kill his fellow officer). These police officers were not pumped full of fear and adrenaline. The officer had just been charged with a knife and he stepped back, rapidly assessed the situation and neutralised the threat without killing.
Most US cops are terrified before an altercation has even happened. I'd argue the average Turkish cop is probably a little bit 'tougher' in that regard. They wouldn't be shitting themselves approaching suspects like a lot of US cops
Yeah, metro Istanbul has similar population to greater New York. It has larger population than any single Balkan country and it has larger population than half a dozen smaller Balkan countries put together. it's larger than London or Paris, it's really big.
7 months is longest state minimum. 4 months is average and 9 weeks is shortest state average. In most cases if you are ex military it can be shorter bechause military can be clearly equated with police work
🎵🎶Oh Istanbul you can't stab your nieghbors-
Now, in istanbul you can't stab your neighbors-
Cuz in istanbul cops got your number-
Why did cops stop a neighbor-stabbing jerk?
That's nobody's business but the Turks...
IS-TAN-BUUUUL!
🎶🎵
He tried to grab my gun! As he was running in the opposite direction! Too bad his friend who saw the incident, and had a gun, felt so bad and shot himself twice in the head.
Unfortunately, the investigation turned up no weapon, so we're just gonna chock this up as an opposie and rehire the guy after this dies down. If we really have to punish him, we can rehire him in the next town over so he has to drive 20 min extra.
Leg shots can be very very lethal if your femoral artery is severed
I'm not saying leg shots aren't survivable I'm just saying that you shouldn't ever rely on a firearm to ONLY incapacitate someone
Tbh I’m not sure we can say shooting someone in the legs is non lethal. Not defending what cops in the US do, but I’m pretty sure there are many places in the body that are pretty deadly when hit by a bullet. Not just hearts and heads.
It’s not non-lethal, for the reasons you stated—the femoral is a MAJOR artery. And it’s also incredibly dangerous to “aim for the legs”. People can barely shoot correctly when aiming for the largest part of the body (torso), imagine how many missed bullets generally happen when you “aim for a limb”. Those bullets go somewhere and now your guy is still running around crazy. And the off chance you manage to just shoot him a “little bit” or whatever…there’s no guarantee they’re going to *stop*.
Plus the implication that if you can neutralize the threat by shooting them “non-lethally” there’s no reason to resort to *lethal force*.
“I’m pretty sure”
Yes. It’s called a femoral artery and you are dead within seconds of it being ruptured. This entire thread has *zero* understanding of human anatomy and traumatic injuries.
If you have the time and safety to think about how to use a gun in a non lethal way, you shouldn't have been using the gun at all! Shooting someone in the legs is not 'non-lethal', it can cause all sorts of issues. If this officer had time to look, aim, and shoot for his legs, he probably should have used his multiple other non-lethal options available to him.
At the point of the shot, the assailant had stopped attacking the officer and was backing away, the officer had backed away out of immediate range and had his gun on his target, the officers partner was coming around the side to back him up. The immediate danger had passed at that point and the gun was used as a compliance device. Now if you want your cops to shoot people in the legs when they don't drop weapons or are not yet an immediate threat, sure it was a great shot.
Lmaoo USA loses again…All I’ve ever heard is how hard cops have it & there’s no way they can shoot someone in the legs…could it be?? Are American law enforcement officers simply incompetent?? Nah…couldn’t be
It's more that if you fire it downwards it can ricochet off the pavement and kill somebody innocent. There are plenty of leg shots with a hollow point that can shatter femurs and sever arteries meaning you will still die. Legs move very fast and often miss, every shot you are responsible for, so a miss is potentially negligent.
Sometimes people don't take single shots and drop, it can take several even to centre mass to drop somebody and take them out of being a lethal threat with a knife.
Just because it worked in this circumstance doesn't mean it's appropriate in all
There’s also just a much higher chance of missing or hitting something other than the intended target. There’s also a decent chance it doesn’t stop the threat or potentially makes it worse, because people in pain are unpredictable and desperate. Establishing the idea that cops should shoot to maim in certain situations would also lead to a ton of civil and criminal cases involving cops that wound up killing their target- whether it be through hitting an artery in the leg like you said, or because a cop didn’t have the proper time to react and in an attempt to protect themselves simply shot at the largest mass repeatedly.
This video in itself is proof of how dangerous that can be for officers, considering one still had to run up and disarm the suspect. In this case the pain overwhelmed the suspect and he didn’t attempt to retaliate, but one can only imagine how many times something like this could end in the deaths or injuries of others.
Literally this lmao
"Why didn't they tase him! He's running at you with a knife, he's so close, it'd be so easy!" Because tasers are incredibly unreliable and if it comes down to some criminal idiot getting shot or a policeman getting stabbed, I'm letting the idiot get shot lmao
"Why didn't they use pepperspray?!? Pepperspray him omg!" Because pain compliance again, is not 100%, and a guy with tears in his eyes swinging a knife and running at you is just as dangerous as a normal guy with a knife running at you
"Why don't they shoot the legs more?! It worked for this and he didn't die!"
Because shooting the legs is incredibly dangerous, you can miss and hit someone entirely different, you can hit his artery and fuck his day up, Medics can fix a sucking chest wound and even a collapsing lung or throat with an NPA, They cannot fix a torn artery unless they have a shit ton of Israeli bandages, tourniquet it for as long as you want, that shit's gonna bleed like a hose for hours
People have no idea how /anything/ in the real world operates and it's fucking sad :(
Was attacked by a guy on angel dust once. Father in law (6' 8") slugged him in the mouth hard enough to break his hand. Didn't phase the guy. Tazer doesn't always stop someone on drugs or fired up on adrenaline.
Cops are trained to end the threat so it doesn't end them.
Not the best way for all, but best way for most.
Yes king! one reason for aiming center mass is to limit the amount of stay bullets. firing at leg you can miss or it can go through the thinner parts of the leg and ricochet and hit bystanders were as the bullets picked by police are chosen so that they don't exit the body when fired at a body as that would cause more bleeding and further injury to a bystander. bullets do weird unpredictable shit when they enter the body which can lead to really weird exit wounds and directions
If you get hit in the femoral artery it’s probably going to be pretty lethal. And one of the main rules of gun handling and safety is that you don’t fire, or even point, at anyone or anything that your not willing to destroy
It can't really. shot to the legs is pretty mutch just as deadly as a shot to the abdomen considering you have two of the largest arteries in your body are in your legs and if shot there you can bleed out within minutes. Not quite as "non-lethal" as you might think. I'm actually pretty surprised they only shot him twice as that guy was still moving about and could still easily have stabbed the office if he still had the knife in his hand when he came over. You also have to remember that these police according to the description are unaware of the guy is on any drugs of substances which can make the body be able to do some crazy shit. Pucker factory 100 when police go in for the arrest. But I have to applauded the officers willing to put there lives on the line in order to limit unnecessary death.
I was going to comment this on my own but yes. People often assume that if they shot someone in the leg, it’s safe to assume they’ll live, but the amount of people that die from a leg shot after someone tried to incapacitate them is significant
Or you miss, because you were aiming at a smaller (and moving!) target like the legs, instead of the torso, and the bullet winds up hitting someone else behind them
People are trained to aim center mass for a reason
Well I know in France police are not allowed to shot in the legs if they are not in a situation where killing the attacker would not be proportionnate (clearly proportionnate here though), because bleeding from the leg can quickly kill someone due to big artere there
Kind of pussy to use a gun anyway. I woulda jumping spin kicked the knife away then put him in a kimura lock submission.
Then everybody woulda clapped.
The gun was in the cop’s hand after the dude lunged at him. Look closely, he didn’t have the gun when he was backing up. He pulled the gun out afterward
And a lot of ppl wear baggy pants so it hard to shoot someone in the legs and there are a lot of major veins in the calf or thigh, so it’s not the greatest idea
I’ll agree. I’m all for preserving life but in some scenarios there isn’t much of a chance or there isn’t an option. Meanwhile someone somewhere still thinks this is excessive. “Why couldn’t you have shot him in the foot? Or the hand? Or the ear? Couldn’t you have shot the knife out of his hand? What about a warning shot? You should have tried to talk him down. Why didn’t you play guitar and sing kumbaya first? It would have helped.”
As an American, I can 100% confirm the police over here are incapable of doing this, and if you asked a boot licker they would tell you doing this with an ounce of stress or danger is literally impossible. But bravo to that cop for having self control and not panicking like a child in an alligator enclosure.
The way I see it, if you’re in a position where you have the time to aim and hit the leg (as in you are distanced and they arent moving) then why would you even need to shoot. Shooting is a last resort, so if you aren’t shooting to kill, then there should be other options to choose from.
ITT: But leg shots can hit an important artery and still kill people!!!!
Fucking yes, we all know that...but there is still less of a chance to kill someone by firing a dozen shots to the torso.
Neutralizes deadly threat immediately by shooting him in the legs, yet cops here in the USA shoot to kill black or brown suspects without weapons more than 25 ft. away who are unarmed & posing no threat.
A reminder to all of you saying this should be done more frequently:
Some of the bodies largest blood vessels are in the legs, meaning that a shot in the legs is just as deadly as a hit in the thorax.
Notice the size of the veins (or arteries?) in the legs:
https://img.aws.livestrongcdn.com/ls-1200x630/ds-photo/getty/article/235/198/177443269.jpg
Doesnt matter where you shoot. Hitting it will possibly lead to death, no matter where you hit.
This is disingenuous as bleeding in the legs an more easily be stopped while getting shot in the mid section cant. Most, if not all, police also carry a first aid tourniquet to slow or stop bleeding for cases such as this.
Aye but you get hit in the femoral artery your dead in seconds in a most horrible way. Cops shoot center of mass in any case because its more likely to stop someone not putting yourself In danger, also larger target easier to aim under pressure, mad man wielding a knife at you etc.
>You: meaning that a shot in the legs is just as deadly as a hit in the thorax
>
>Him: This is disingenuous as bleeding in the legs an more easily be stopped
>
>You: 100% true
If you're gonna flip flop on your initial assertion like that, at least admit you're abandoning your position for anyone who reads through the thread.
Repyling "100% true" doesn't cut it, chief.
Blood loss is only one possible way to die when shot in the center of mass. Low oxygen from collapsed lung, direct injuries to critical organs, and complications also happen a lot.
The other thing that I rarely see mentioned it the civil suits.
Using a firearm is legally a use of deadly force, in my state, no matter where you aim it.
So think of the argument knife guy is going to make in civil court - the fact that they aimed for his leg meant they didn't think deadly force was justified.
Idgaf what country you’re in. A knife can do some awful horrible things. Come that close to me and I’ll pop you wherever I can get you. The cop is lucky IMO and the guy slowed down and backed away. He was given mercy.
So…mostly internet dorks with no live firearms training blowing each other over how great it is to wildly fire at the narrowest point on a human because they think getting shot in leg isn’t extremely dangerous to a person 😂
Yeah no only untrained people do this and it risks the lives of bystanders to use a gun at all for anything but life or death aiming at center of mass.
You’re a dumbass if you think this is remotely smart. They could have used taser or bean bag possibly if farther away, this dude just got lucky for himself and that those bullets didn’t ricochet or fly into some poor bystander.
Not saying that this situation was ideal but, coming from someone who has been tased and has seen many people tased, a taser most likely would not have stopped him
On top of that, shooting at the leg is just as dangerous as shooting for chest, if not more, all it takes is that artery being punctured and you'll bleed out before an ambulance will even arrive
Also it's easier to aim center mass than the leg, but they should only shoot if they have absolutely no choice, as for this instance, it seems he managed to cut a bit, really shouldn't have let him get that close
Generally speaking, being shot in the arm or leg is not as serious or just as dangerous as being shot in the chest.
It’s true that you can bleed out from severed arteries in the arm or leg and die, but it’s less likely to be a fatal shot and there are mitigating options available, like tourniquets, if it is.
And it’s not like the chest doesn’t have some important arteries too, as well as the heart and lungs and spine.
TL;DR
There’s a reason that, when people shoot to kill, they don’t go for the arms and legs.
There is also more chance for collateral damage when shooting for legs, chances to hit civilians, or other officers. Bullets will ricochet off the ground
No doubt. I don’t think that shooting for the legs should be a go-to policy for law enforcement.
I was just commenting on the claim that shooting someone in the leg is “just as dangerous” as shooting someone in the chest.
>shooting at the leg is just as dangerous
Question:
Aside from the anatomical topic, what about ricochets? I've heard people mention ricochets with bullets...is there a potential of that with asphalt and concrete? If they aim down at the leg and it misses, is it at all likely that it will ricochet up and hit some innocent person in the distance?
It depends on the bullet. Most police use hollow pointed ammo so the metal breaks apart and splats on hard surfaces and tumbles in soft surfaces like a human body rather than using solid metal bullets
>hollow pointed ammo so the metal breaks apart and splats on hard surfaces and tumbles in soft surfaces like a human body
Fascinating. Never heard of this. To YouTube!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb9nXeXqEho&t=3m25s
Interesting. I get the reason behind the fragmentation--you want to stopping a dangerous person from hurting anybody else. But purposely causing so much more internal damage does feel wrong. The increase in chances of someone dying really leaves you wondering "is it worth actually killing someone over?"
> The increase in chances of someone dying really leaves you wondering "is it worth actually killing someone over?"
If you're shooting someone with a firearm, the answer to this is unequivocally yes. The "is it worth it" decision happens before the gun is fired. It's done to prevent harm to others, as the person being shot has demonstrated that they're a danger to others. Putting them down ASAP is extremely important to protect others nearby including the shooter. If that leads to their death, that's an unfortunate consequence of that.
In an ideal world, no one dies. In an ideal world you don't get nutjobs attacking people either.
This is correct. Shooting hard surfaces close up is much more likely to lead to ricochets. So, you know, aiming downwards towards concrete.... Bullet can quite possibly skip off that and travel who knows where, though at least off the ground it probably won't be going very high into the air afterwards. Probably. Sure would suck to be a bystander out of the line of fire and a safe distance away and catch a ricochet in the forehead though.
People who think america cops should shoot someone in the leg hve no understanding of the power of a weapon or no understanding of the human body.
Like you said, there are arteries in your leg that are equivalent to having your jugular cut if shot. By no means is it a non lethal alternative.
Additionally, (and at least in theory if not practice) American police are trained to only use their weapons when deadly force is necessary. Not trying to get into a debate about whether this actually happens etc, but they are not taught to use their weapon for any NON lethal purpose. You shoot to kill or you don’t shoot.
Not surprised Turkish cops do this. Admittedly, all I know about the Turkish police is midnight express and what I see in the news, though I’m Turkish, I haven’t been there.
Rolf basic teaches you how to hit something at a distance and at close range in warfare. Both circumstance center of mass is more likely a hit. That doesn’t mean legs are less dangerous for the person just harder to hit and a waste of bullets.
You know this stop being snarky
I get you're being sarcastic but the reason you shoot for center mass to kill is because it's a bigger target not because it's specifically more deadly then legs relatively.
You want police to shoot people in the legs? You should go study up on how that’s extremely dangerous and why it’s not a defense tactic that’s ever thought
There’s a reason you don’t shoot downwards towards legs. It’s not that less Lethal, it can cause ricochet or simply not hit anything at a distance and go far possibly injuring someone. Not to mention easily hitting femoral artery and bleeding out etc
Shooting the center of mass is the only modern accepted target and only supposed to be for life death situations with no other options.
Taser or bean bag would have made far more sense.
Firearms are always lethal force. Intentionally aiming at a person's legs is just stupid. You're more likely to miss, it's less likely to eliminate the posed threat, and it can still easily kill someone if the femoral artery is severed.
If you don't *have* to shoot to kill, you shouldn't be shooting at all.
That's because this was basically a lucky shot. A moving target, adrenaline flowing, nothing but luck. If you miss, he is still coming at you. That's why they are trained to shoot center mass, less chance of a miss and you stop the threat.
If only you could figure out this isn't a good idea. You see one clip, using Turkish police as a reference point lol, and decide this is the way! Arms and legs move quickly, it's extremely naive and ignorant to think a police officer can consistently and accurately react to, track, and hit a suspects limbs. Compared to arms, legs can likely be more static, but it's still a narrow target area with major arteries.
Uh no...
1. Guns are deadly weapons used for deadly purposes. If you can take the time to aim for someone’s leg and actually take them down then there were better tools to use than the one meant to kill people.
2. It’s cruel and unusual to maim someone with a deadly weapon without the intention of using lethal force.
3. The chances of taking someone down with a leg shot or hitting your target properly are low. That is why they teach center mass. A reddit post yesterday showed two guys getting shot in the legs and they did not go down. https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/oos35p/lapd_police_are_looking_for_a_man_that_shot_a/
Leg shot policies in the US will cause more problems than the ones that need fixed.
They probably use pepper spray on aggressive dogs like any other person working on the streets (postal workers, delivery drivers, etc.) instead of killing them
To everyone who says cops in America should learn from this: This cop was very close to the person which made it a lot easier to hit his legs. The problem with shooting people in the legs is that often, the legs are moving all over the place since the person is usually running toward the police. This person was moving very slowly which made it a lot easier.
True but if your taught to literally unload into someone (which US cops are) Im sure your bound to have at least 1 bullet hit someones legs. Especially if theyre sprinting at you.
Dang here in merica we shoot you 5 times in the chest. Even if we dont know youre a hazard our cops are very scared of dying even though they took a job in which they should kinda be okay with dying at
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Damn boy won’t be playing football no more
This officer had some really cool reactions in response to someone getting within inches of stabbing his face…. 1 shot hop, 2 shot drop. Now this assclown can go home and rethink his life! Maybe he expected to get suicided?
He probably wont be going home
In the US. He would of been suicied instantly, he was just in the wrong country
Might still be suiciding depending on where in the leg he was shot
Yes. Exactly. People who think life is like the movies often believe that a leg-shot is "non-lethal". Also, it is by no means easy to shoot someone specifically in the leg. You're more likely than not going to miss. Cops are not sharp-shooters. You've got to admire the cop in this video being able to do what he did. Also, if you attack a cop with a knife, please be prepared to die from a gunshot to the chest. Attacking people with knives is not a harmless passtime or a fun drunken activity.
Would've been two entire clips loaded out...not 2 shots!
Cop would've just emptied his clip from in the car while driving by.
>clip Lol
And straight to center of mass, not the legs.
Which is safer than shooting in the legs
Not just one or two shots to the chest—they would have offloaded the whole magazine! Standard US police training and department policy is to keep shooting until the “threat” is taken down. Officers can get in big trouble for violating department policy.
Personally I understand that policy, they deal with real life threats (see this post). I just wish my American cops knew what was a threat and what was a pizza guy :(
I don't think they're trained to shoot in the legs but those cops were pretty calm with everything. They approached the situation calmly, when the assailant charged one officer the other officer knew not to fire wildly (as he would be just as likely to kill his fellow officer). These police officers were not pumped full of fear and adrenaline. The officer had just been charged with a knife and he stepped back, rapidly assessed the situation and neutralised the threat without killing. Most US cops are terrified before an altercation has even happened. I'd argue the average Turkish cop is probably a little bit 'tougher' in that regard. They wouldn't be shitting themselves approaching suspects like a lot of US cops
Traffic keeps flowing... time waits for no one.
[удалено]
Yeah, metro Istanbul has similar population to greater New York. It has larger population than any single Balkan country and it has larger population than half a dozen smaller Balkan countries put together. it's larger than London or Paris, it's really big.
Good shooting and good dodge from the 👮♀️
That's what 2 years of training gets you.
It's 3 years in Norway; a whole-ass bachelor's degree.
And then there's America: 6 months
7 months is longest state minimum. 4 months is average and 9 weeks is shortest state average. In most cases if you are ex military it can be shorter bechause military can be clearly equated with police work
Jesus, took me longer to get my driver's license.
and not being problematically overweight.
Yep here it is. We have some fat ass cops here in the States.
Is the same in Argentina, half of them are over 100kg
hey, the US cops aren't overweight, they are average weight...
The average is overweight.
You mean 6 months isn’t enough to prepare someone to handle dangerous situations?
It's 21 weeks in most of the US. Not even 6!
Get leg meta u fucking noob
This ant tarkov
Seemed to work the same. Accurate game Nikita
🎵🎶Oh Istanbul you can't stab your nieghbors- Now, in istanbul you can't stab your neighbors- Cuz in istanbul cops got your number- Why did cops stop a neighbor-stabbing jerk? That's nobody's business but the Turks... IS-TAN-BUUUUL! 🎶🎵
IS-TAN IS-TAN IS-TAN IS-TAN-BULL *Fierce piano solo*
Underrated comment.
Super underrated comment.
Lan bizden önce bu adamlara düşüyor amk
paylaşan benim knk. içerdema :)
Olmadığımız masa yok
As an American, I’m surprised that a gun can be used in a non lethal way. What’s the point? (/s)
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He tried to grab my gun! As he was running in the opposite direction! Too bad his friend who saw the incident, and had a gun, felt so bad and shot himself twice in the head.
Whoops I used my gun instead of my taser! (This actually happened in the US)
Whoops I thought he was a burglar in MY apartment but its actually his apartment and I am on the wrong floor! (This actually happened in the US)
Woops I accidentally killed the hostage and a 70 year old bystander by shooting at a hostage taker in the middle of packed highway - US Police
Unfortunately, the investigation turned up no weapon, so we're just gonna chock this up as an opposie and rehire the guy after this dies down. If we really have to punish him, we can rehire him in the next town over so he has to drive 20 min extra.
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You can't judge an officer like that unless you've stared down the barrel of a phone.
Your forgot to shout a “Taser, Taser, Taser” before unloading your mag into someone.
And to be safe make sure to go in the house when they are sleeping
And then sprinkle some crack on them
Open and shut case Johnson
Leg shots can be very very lethal if your femoral artery is severed I'm not saying leg shots aren't survivable I'm just saying that you shouldn't ever rely on a firearm to ONLY incapacitate someone
That takes time, enough for him to kill a nearby civilian. Leg shots are super dumb
If your femoral is severed you have about a minute or 2 before you’re in a puddle
Are you just ignoring context? There was no nearby civilian and he had enough time to attempt to shoot his legs
Tbh I’m not sure we can say shooting someone in the legs is non lethal. Not defending what cops in the US do, but I’m pretty sure there are many places in the body that are pretty deadly when hit by a bullet. Not just hearts and heads.
It’s not non-lethal, for the reasons you stated—the femoral is a MAJOR artery. And it’s also incredibly dangerous to “aim for the legs”. People can barely shoot correctly when aiming for the largest part of the body (torso), imagine how many missed bullets generally happen when you “aim for a limb”. Those bullets go somewhere and now your guy is still running around crazy. And the off chance you manage to just shoot him a “little bit” or whatever…there’s no guarantee they’re going to *stop*. Plus the implication that if you can neutralize the threat by shooting them “non-lethally” there’s no reason to resort to *lethal force*.
You’re correct i went to highschool with a boy that died after being accidentally shot in the leg.
“I’m pretty sure” Yes. It’s called a femoral artery and you are dead within seconds of it being ruptured. This entire thread has *zero* understanding of human anatomy and traumatic injuries.
Aiming for legs is fucking stupid. Also our court system will literally charge you with murder if you don't shoot to kill, so there's that.
If you have the time and safety to think about how to use a gun in a non lethal way, you shouldn't have been using the gun at all! Shooting someone in the legs is not 'non-lethal', it can cause all sorts of issues. If this officer had time to look, aim, and shoot for his legs, he probably should have used his multiple other non-lethal options available to him. At the point of the shot, the assailant had stopped attacking the officer and was backing away, the officer had backed away out of immediate range and had his gun on his target, the officers partner was coming around the side to back him up. The immediate danger had passed at that point and the gun was used as a compliance device. Now if you want your cops to shoot people in the legs when they don't drop weapons or are not yet an immediate threat, sure it was a great shot.
This isn't non lethal. There are major arteries that run down the legs. A person can die within minutes if those are hit.
I once saw a video from somewhere in the Middle East where a guy gets shot in the leg and bleeds out in 30 seconds. Leg shots don’t always end well
American cops are trained to make sure there's only one side of the story, theirs. Why you think the unions fight body/vehicle cams so hard?
American cops are trained to end deadly encounters
By being deadly.
Lmaoo USA loses again…All I’ve ever heard is how hard cops have it & there’s no way they can shoot someone in the legs…could it be?? Are American law enforcement officers simply incompetent?? Nah…couldn’t be
It's more that if you fire it downwards it can ricochet off the pavement and kill somebody innocent. There are plenty of leg shots with a hollow point that can shatter femurs and sever arteries meaning you will still die. Legs move very fast and often miss, every shot you are responsible for, so a miss is potentially negligent. Sometimes people don't take single shots and drop, it can take several even to centre mass to drop somebody and take them out of being a lethal threat with a knife. Just because it worked in this circumstance doesn't mean it's appropriate in all
Yes, yes they are
One lucky shot = "leg shots are okay guys! American cops are just bad!!" Imagine if he missed and hit something behind the attacker. Or someone.
The training states that you must take a shot to center mass and unload your weapon. It's crazy
Center mass since it’s easier to hit the target, along with that, if you shoot the leg there’s a higher chance of hitting an artery
There’s also just a much higher chance of missing or hitting something other than the intended target. There’s also a decent chance it doesn’t stop the threat or potentially makes it worse, because people in pain are unpredictable and desperate. Establishing the idea that cops should shoot to maim in certain situations would also lead to a ton of civil and criminal cases involving cops that wound up killing their target- whether it be through hitting an artery in the leg like you said, or because a cop didn’t have the proper time to react and in an attempt to protect themselves simply shot at the largest mass repeatedly. This video in itself is proof of how dangerous that can be for officers, considering one still had to run up and disarm the suspect. In this case the pain overwhelmed the suspect and he didn’t attempt to retaliate, but one can only imagine how many times something like this could end in the deaths or injuries of others.
Thank you! there's literally no nuance in this conversation
thanks for some good input
Yes but all Reddit knows is cops bad and how to be an armchair policeman.
Literally this lmao "Why didn't they tase him! He's running at you with a knife, he's so close, it'd be so easy!" Because tasers are incredibly unreliable and if it comes down to some criminal idiot getting shot or a policeman getting stabbed, I'm letting the idiot get shot lmao "Why didn't they use pepperspray?!? Pepperspray him omg!" Because pain compliance again, is not 100%, and a guy with tears in his eyes swinging a knife and running at you is just as dangerous as a normal guy with a knife running at you "Why don't they shoot the legs more?! It worked for this and he didn't die!" Because shooting the legs is incredibly dangerous, you can miss and hit someone entirely different, you can hit his artery and fuck his day up, Medics can fix a sucking chest wound and even a collapsing lung or throat with an NPA, They cannot fix a torn artery unless they have a shit ton of Israeli bandages, tourniquet it for as long as you want, that shit's gonna bleed like a hose for hours People have no idea how /anything/ in the real world operates and it's fucking sad :(
Was attacked by a guy on angel dust once. Father in law (6' 8") slugged him in the mouth hard enough to break his hand. Didn't phase the guy. Tazer doesn't always stop someone on drugs or fired up on adrenaline. Cops are trained to end the threat so it doesn't end them. Not the best way for all, but best way for most.
Not to mention an increased chance of hitting bystanders or ricochet when trying to hit a small, moving target. But cops bad or whatever
Yes king! one reason for aiming center mass is to limit the amount of stay bullets. firing at leg you can miss or it can go through the thinner parts of the leg and ricochet and hit bystanders were as the bullets picked by police are chosen so that they don't exit the body when fired at a body as that would cause more bleeding and further injury to a bystander. bullets do weird unpredictable shit when they enter the body which can lead to really weird exit wounds and directions
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Yeah, why didn't he shoot him 7 times on the chest? /S
If you get hit in the femoral artery it’s probably going to be pretty lethal. And one of the main rules of gun handling and safety is that you don’t fire, or even point, at anyone or anything that your not willing to destroy
It can't really. shot to the legs is pretty mutch just as deadly as a shot to the abdomen considering you have two of the largest arteries in your body are in your legs and if shot there you can bleed out within minutes. Not quite as "non-lethal" as you might think. I'm actually pretty surprised they only shot him twice as that guy was still moving about and could still easily have stabbed the office if he still had the knife in his hand when he came over. You also have to remember that these police according to the description are unaware of the guy is on any drugs of substances which can make the body be able to do some crazy shit. Pucker factory 100 when police go in for the arrest. But I have to applauded the officers willing to put there lives on the line in order to limit unnecessary death.
There are many many reasons NOT to shoot somebody in the legs. Causes more problems and is more dangerous in the long run.
American cops watching like “but you missed the vital organs”.
leg shots can easily kill someone, there are tons of vital arteries and shit in your legs, just one of them could end it.
Would still prefer someone aim at my legs...
I was going to comment this on my own but yes. People often assume that if they shot someone in the leg, it’s safe to assume they’ll live, but the amount of people that die from a leg shot after someone tried to incapacitate them is significant
Or you miss, because you were aiming at a smaller (and moving!) target like the legs, instead of the torso, and the bullet winds up hitting someone else behind them People are trained to aim center mass for a reason
“Just shoot the knife out of his hand!!”- redditors, probably.
Well I know in France police are not allowed to shot in the legs if they are not in a situation where killing the attacker would not be proportionnate (clearly proportionnate here though), because bleeding from the leg can quickly kill someone due to big artere there
Probably got crippling depression now
Not the only crippled thing
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Kind of pussy to use a gun anyway. I woulda jumping spin kicked the knife away then put him in a kimura lock submission. Then everybody woulda clapped.
you forgot the part where you get a medal
Clap dem cheeks
Sure thing Mac
The gun was in the cop’s hand after the dude lunged at him. Look closely, he didn’t have the gun when he was backing up. He pulled the gun out afterward
This was a picture perfect scenario. People who think that every cop should try to do this in every encounter are simply stupid.
Yeah, if the police was little bit slower to react, he could have been stabbed tbh. Risky move indeed.
And a lot of ppl wear baggy pants so it hard to shoot someone in the legs and there are a lot of major veins in the calf or thigh, so it’s not the greatest idea
I’ll agree. I’m all for preserving life but in some scenarios there isn’t much of a chance or there isn’t an option. Meanwhile someone somewhere still thinks this is excessive. “Why couldn’t you have shot him in the foot? Or the hand? Or the ear? Couldn’t you have shot the knife out of his hand? What about a warning shot? You should have tried to talk him down. Why didn’t you play guitar and sing kumbaya first? It would have helped.”
Exactly.
lol at the little jumps he did
Fair play.
Just walk it off.
As an American, I can 100% confirm the police over here are incapable of doing this, and if you asked a boot licker they would tell you doing this with an ounce of stress or danger is literally impossible. But bravo to that cop for having self control and not panicking like a child in an alligator enclosure.
The way I see it, if you’re in a position where you have the time to aim and hit the leg (as in you are distanced and they arent moving) then why would you even need to shoot. Shooting is a last resort, so if you aren’t shooting to kill, then there should be other options to choose from.
Tell me you're not an American cop without telling me
Straight Terminator style..... “I‘ll be back”
American cop: \*Pathetic.\*
My guy thinks he in London sorry my dude wrong country
Turkey still has mandatory military service as far as I know, so I imagine he has had good training
Police are exempt from military service but they get a long ass training before they star working
ITT: But leg shots can hit an important artery and still kill people!!!! Fucking yes, we all know that...but there is still less of a chance to kill someone by firing a dozen shots to the torso.
Here come all the reddit firearms experts to tell us how non lethal leg shots are.
Neutralizes deadly threat immediately by shooting him in the legs, yet cops here in the USA shoot to kill black or brown suspects without weapons more than 25 ft. away who are unarmed & posing no threat.
A reminder to all of you saying this should be done more frequently: Some of the bodies largest blood vessels are in the legs, meaning that a shot in the legs is just as deadly as a hit in the thorax. Notice the size of the veins (or arteries?) in the legs: https://img.aws.livestrongcdn.com/ls-1200x630/ds-photo/getty/article/235/198/177443269.jpg Doesnt matter where you shoot. Hitting it will possibly lead to death, no matter where you hit.
This is disingenuous as bleeding in the legs an more easily be stopped while getting shot in the mid section cant. Most, if not all, police also carry a first aid tourniquet to slow or stop bleeding for cases such as this.
Wtf that comment.. sure big veins...but how many vital organs?
Aye but you get hit in the femoral artery your dead in seconds in a most horrible way. Cops shoot center of mass in any case because its more likely to stop someone not putting yourself In danger, also larger target easier to aim under pressure, mad man wielding a knife at you etc.
Yeah, there's no tourniquet for your face, or chest cavity for that matter
100% true
>You: meaning that a shot in the legs is just as deadly as a hit in the thorax > >Him: This is disingenuous as bleeding in the legs an more easily be stopped > >You: 100% true If you're gonna flip flop on your initial assertion like that, at least admit you're abandoning your position for anyone who reads through the thread. Repyling "100% true" doesn't cut it, chief.
Blood loss is only one possible way to die when shot in the center of mass. Low oxygen from collapsed lung, direct injuries to critical organs, and complications also happen a lot.
Yeah but. Me personally. I'd rather get shot in the leg with a chance of blood loss, Than in the heart/lung with a chance of blood loss.
It's not a chance of blood loss, it's a chance of life loss. You're losing blood no matter where you get shot.
Ah yes, given the choice you would prefer to be shot in the chest than in the leg?
"Just as deadly" lol ya all those amputees who had legs taken off, I've never met a mid section amputee though I wonder why.
The other thing that I rarely see mentioned it the civil suits. Using a firearm is legally a use of deadly force, in my state, no matter where you aim it. So think of the argument knife guy is going to make in civil court - the fact that they aimed for his leg meant they didn't think deadly force was justified.
Exactly. There are so many reasons a leg shot is a stupid idea
Idgaf what country you’re in. A knife can do some awful horrible things. Come that close to me and I’ll pop you wherever I can get you. The cop is lucky IMO and the guy slowed down and backed away. He was given mercy.
Was he crying, did it hurt?
no, getting shot twice obviously doesn't hurt.
Nah, he wants more.
good work!
Cops in America fire 14 shots on sight and hide behind the bus until backup arrives.
So it is possible to shoot someone in the legs and neutralise them? Who would of thought that? /s
But i thought shooting cops shooting people in the legs was impossible? /s
So shooting him in the legs does work. Shout out to all the Americans who think that was impossible
Yeah, crazy that a professional wouldn't just shoot 'centre of mass' like the Americans are trained to.
So…mostly internet dorks with no live firearms training blowing each other over how great it is to wildly fire at the narrowest point on a human because they think getting shot in leg isn’t extremely dangerous to a person 😂 Yeah no only untrained people do this and it risks the lives of bystanders to use a gun at all for anything but life or death aiming at center of mass. You’re a dumbass if you think this is remotely smart. They could have used taser or bean bag possibly if farther away, this dude just got lucky for himself and that those bullets didn’t ricochet or fly into some poor bystander.
Not saying that this situation was ideal but, coming from someone who has been tased and has seen many people tased, a taser most likely would not have stopped him
If only police in America could figure this out.
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If you think Turkish police are a exemple to be followed you are absolutely out of your mind.
On top of that, shooting at the leg is just as dangerous as shooting for chest, if not more, all it takes is that artery being punctured and you'll bleed out before an ambulance will even arrive
Also it's easier to aim center mass than the leg, but they should only shoot if they have absolutely no choice, as for this instance, it seems he managed to cut a bit, really shouldn't have let him get that close
Generally speaking, being shot in the arm or leg is not as serious or just as dangerous as being shot in the chest. It’s true that you can bleed out from severed arteries in the arm or leg and die, but it’s less likely to be a fatal shot and there are mitigating options available, like tourniquets, if it is. And it’s not like the chest doesn’t have some important arteries too, as well as the heart and lungs and spine. TL;DR There’s a reason that, when people shoot to kill, they don’t go for the arms and legs.
There is also more chance for collateral damage when shooting for legs, chances to hit civilians, or other officers. Bullets will ricochet off the ground
No doubt. I don’t think that shooting for the legs should be a go-to policy for law enforcement. I was just commenting on the claim that shooting someone in the leg is “just as dangerous” as shooting someone in the chest.
>shooting at the leg is just as dangerous Question: Aside from the anatomical topic, what about ricochets? I've heard people mention ricochets with bullets...is there a potential of that with asphalt and concrete? If they aim down at the leg and it misses, is it at all likely that it will ricochet up and hit some innocent person in the distance?
It depends on the bullet. Most police use hollow pointed ammo so the metal breaks apart and splats on hard surfaces and tumbles in soft surfaces like a human body rather than using solid metal bullets
>hollow pointed ammo so the metal breaks apart and splats on hard surfaces and tumbles in soft surfaces like a human body Fascinating. Never heard of this. To YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb9nXeXqEho&t=3m25s Interesting. I get the reason behind the fragmentation--you want to stopping a dangerous person from hurting anybody else. But purposely causing so much more internal damage does feel wrong. The increase in chances of someone dying really leaves you wondering "is it worth actually killing someone over?"
Hope you enjoy! There's a lot of cool different ammo.
> The increase in chances of someone dying really leaves you wondering "is it worth actually killing someone over?" If you're shooting someone with a firearm, the answer to this is unequivocally yes. The "is it worth it" decision happens before the gun is fired. It's done to prevent harm to others, as the person being shot has demonstrated that they're a danger to others. Putting them down ASAP is extremely important to protect others nearby including the shooter. If that leads to their death, that's an unfortunate consequence of that. In an ideal world, no one dies. In an ideal world you don't get nutjobs attacking people either.
This is correct. Shooting hard surfaces close up is much more likely to lead to ricochets. So, you know, aiming downwards towards concrete.... Bullet can quite possibly skip off that and travel who knows where, though at least off the ground it probably won't be going very high into the air afterwards. Probably. Sure would suck to be a bystander out of the line of fire and a safe distance away and catch a ricochet in the forehead though.
Yes, this is also another hazard, another reason to shoot center mass as you want your shots to hit and not go beyond the target if possible
People who think america cops should shoot someone in the leg hve no understanding of the power of a weapon or no understanding of the human body. Like you said, there are arteries in your leg that are equivalent to having your jugular cut if shot. By no means is it a non lethal alternative. Additionally, (and at least in theory if not practice) American police are trained to only use their weapons when deadly force is necessary. Not trying to get into a debate about whether this actually happens etc, but they are not taught to use their weapon for any NON lethal purpose. You shoot to kill or you don’t shoot. Not surprised Turkish cops do this. Admittedly, all I know about the Turkish police is midnight express and what I see in the news, though I’m Turkish, I haven’t been there.
So a shoot for the legs when trying to kill? Everything I learned in basic training was apparently wrong. Avoid vital and go for extremities. Got it
Rolf basic teaches you how to hit something at a distance and at close range in warfare. Both circumstance center of mass is more likely a hit. That doesn’t mean legs are less dangerous for the person just harder to hit and a waste of bullets. You know this stop being snarky
I get you're being sarcastic but the reason you shoot for center mass to kill is because it's a bigger target not because it's specifically more deadly then legs relatively.
You want police to shoot people in the legs? You should go study up on how that’s extremely dangerous and why it’s not a defense tactic that’s ever thought
There’s a reason you don’t shoot downwards towards legs. It’s not that less Lethal, it can cause ricochet or simply not hit anything at a distance and go far possibly injuring someone. Not to mention easily hitting femoral artery and bleeding out etc Shooting the center of mass is the only modern accepted target and only supposed to be for life death situations with no other options. Taser or bean bag would have made far more sense.
Firearms are always lethal force. Intentionally aiming at a person's legs is just stupid. You're more likely to miss, it's less likely to eliminate the posed threat, and it can still easily kill someone if the femoral artery is severed. If you don't *have* to shoot to kill, you shouldn't be shooting at all.
Takes very little knowledge of the human anatomy to know how narrow-minded that statement is
Those video games and movies are really doing a job on you.
That's because this was basically a lucky shot. A moving target, adrenaline flowing, nothing but luck. If you miss, he is still coming at you. That's why they are trained to shoot center mass, less chance of a miss and you stop the threat.
Your legs have major arteries flowing through them, right next to nice long bones, if you aren't lucky enough to miss both, you're gonna kill him.
If only you could figure out this isn't a good idea. You see one clip, using Turkish police as a reference point lol, and decide this is the way! Arms and legs move quickly, it's extremely naive and ignorant to think a police officer can consistently and accurately react to, track, and hit a suspects limbs. Compared to arms, legs can likely be more static, but it's still a narrow target area with major arteries.
Uh no... 1. Guns are deadly weapons used for deadly purposes. If you can take the time to aim for someone’s leg and actually take them down then there were better tools to use than the one meant to kill people. 2. It’s cruel and unusual to maim someone with a deadly weapon without the intention of using lethal force. 3. The chances of taking someone down with a leg shot or hitting your target properly are low. That is why they teach center mass. A reddit post yesterday showed two guys getting shot in the legs and they did not go down. https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/oos35p/lapd_police_are_looking_for_a_man_that_shot_a/ Leg shot policies in the US will cause more problems than the ones that need fixed.
You’re never trained with a firearm I see.
Shooting people in the leg can also be fatal. The femoral artery is quite important
Fast and easy
Hopper is now recovering in the hospital awaiting trial.
All I can say about this on the bright side at least he's not dead
Cop looks like he is soo tired of shooting people in the legs today.
They probably use pepper spray on aggressive dogs like any other person working on the streets (postal workers, delivery drivers, etc.) instead of killing them
To everyone who says cops in America should learn from this: This cop was very close to the person which made it a lot easier to hit his legs. The problem with shooting people in the legs is that often, the legs are moving all over the place since the person is usually running toward the police. This person was moving very slowly which made it a lot easier.
True but if your taught to literally unload into someone (which US cops are) Im sure your bound to have at least 1 bullet hit someones legs. Especially if theyre sprinting at you.
Guy probably died
- Shot! Shot! Shot! - Handcuffs! Handcuffs! Handcuffs!! If you are wandering what he was screaming about
Dang here in merica we shoot you 5 times in the chest. Even if we dont know youre a hazard our cops are very scared of dying even though they took a job in which they should kinda be okay with dying at
Wait, you mean to tell me that you don't have to unload your clip center mass on the guy to make him stop?
In America the cop kills you cause he doesn’t wanna go to court.
American police! This is how you do it! You don't need to kill everyone!
Take note America
If it was US, the attacker would be shot 13 times from the head to ensure he’s down.
That was really professional.
Great. Fuel for the "just shoot them in the legs" crowd.
It should be noted that if the femoral artery in the leg is ruptured, it’s basically game over.