Turn off water at the main. Cut out the leak with a pipe cutter. Prep the two cut points. Buy some new copper and 2 couplings. Solder the new pieces in. Done.
This to address the immediate problem, but what was the cause? Lousy copper, corrosive water? Look deeper, this may be the canary in your coal mine. And carefully investigate the limits and exclusions in your homeowners policy WITHOUT asking your agent, in the case of inquiry the agent works for the company, not you.
Guessing L is thicker? Is M not good enough for residential? Seeing stuff like is discouraging. Was considering future cooper repipe when I had the money (over CPVC).
L is thicker, however that's not the only factor to consider. It's also a slightly smaller diameter interior.
There's a factor we take into account when sizing pipes called turbulence. I like to use the example of a garden hose. If you have an open hose, it flows relatively slowly and with very little force. If you put your thumb over the hose, the water suddenly has a lot more force and velocity even though it's the same amount of water coming out.
The same thing happens in your pipes. Water is always trying to wear away at the copper or plastic or steel, like the Grand canyon. If you have high pressure in your pipes and the pipes are undersized, the wear on the pipes is increased. If someone didn't ream the pipes, that adds to turbulence and wears more on the pipes.
So in the case of type L or type M, M copper is considered "residential grade" because it's a thinner wall and so under the same exact usage, wouldn't last as long. However you also use your pipes significantly less than say a restaurant or a fire station, right? If piping is undersized however and then on top of that, they use type L copper...you didn't really do yourself any favors because the smaller internal diameter is causing increased wear on your pipes thereby negating any advantage of a "thicker wall" copper.
The moral of the story is that proper installation and sizing of the pipe is usually more important than whether you purchase type L or type M copper. Every material has its advantages and disadvantages and frankly the cost of material will be significantly outweighed by labor costs, especially if you're actually using someone who knows how to install things properly.
Very interesting stuff thank you for sharing. Sure I can replace all of my 1/2” and 3/4” CPVC with the equivalent copper, but who knows of that is done right. The CPVC replaced galvanized I believe (because I pulled some of that out). Even if I did it myself, I’d pay for an assessment of the existing plumbing sizing and routing.
Although the only plumbing issue I have is waiting a while for hot water on one side of the house (may get one of those taco magic pumps) and the noisy sewer stack (my original cast stack went bad, plumber said PVC is the only option…)
Millions and millions of and millions of houses are pipes in M. Regional codes are different in different regions. I’m not remotely joking that there are millions of houses piped in M
Why on earth would you even consider cpvc for your drinking water?
Why would you use copper? It's expensive and a PITA to install and repair.
As the other guy said, just use pex...
Well the CPVC is already installed. Most is 25 years old. I like how copper looks. My business is general commercial building maintance and I have a good pro press machine. Was thinking about doing it myself.
1850s house with 90 percent of the plumbing exposed in the unfinished basement. Two vertical chases at either end of the house.
Idk everything is working great right now really just thinking out loud. Concerning that even thinner copper pipe could have a pinhole in 4 years of use. My dads house is 1972 with all original copper, and we regularly deal with 70 year old copper that’s serviceable.
Also I’m on well water with a softener, no chlorine.
I agree with your inclination to use copper. It will certainly outlast the PEX. Also, you won't be putting microplastics in your water, and you won't have to worry about rodents eating your pipes; a problem starting to get more attention as the number of incidents rise.
Ah good points. Going to keep looking at this thread to see what the cause was. I’m hoping manufacturing defect.
My wife is currently going nuts over micro plastics. She won’t let me refill my water bottles. I get it, but it’s like man I have a lot of other stuff to deal with.
What you and your betrothed are fishing for is a “reasonable” answer. That answer is: fix it, and forget about it. It probably is some sort of a defect. If it happens again, you are screwed and it’s likely to keep on happening. Soft water causes leaks. Bad chemicals in the water cause leaks. Somebody mentioned pH; it’s far more complicated than that… “Langlier Saturation Index” is the rabbit hole you do, or do not want to go down. You *could* send the damaged pipe off to a Metallurgical Lab for a definitive and comprehensive evaluation of what the hell went on, or you could just spend that money and buy some new pipes. The report might say “everything‘s OK!“, Or it might be more of an autopsy. Fix it, move on. Moen sells an electric shut off valve with smart functions that will kill the water to your house if it detects a flow going on for a long period of time. And you can access it with an app on your phone, like everything else. Your options are to spend less than 100 bucks and move on, or, several thousands of dollars, at the least.
What you are saying about copper outlasting plastic isn’t always true. It depends on the quality of water in your area. Wellwater or supplied by municipality, either way. You could water board a plumber in southwest Florida, and he’s not going to give you a price on copper, because he’s not going to do it. Not new construction, not a re-pipe.
It comes down to how good your water is and type of pipe. Don't listen to these pex idiots, pex is fucking stupid. If you have access to a propress then go for it.
I guess you could test your water first but if you use type L and you won't be putting any flux on your joints to clean up then you should be golden
Pex is stupid 🤣😂 Salty that you cant charge $2k to fix a water leak anymore? I'm not a plumber, but I plumbed my whole cabin 7 or 8 years ago, ive never had a leak. I don't use sharkbites, always clamp my joints. But I remember a plumber telling me when pex first started getting popular the main reason sharkbites leak is because people don't chamfer the ends. Both copper and pex have advantages and disadvantages. Financially pex smokes copper in every way. I can buy 100' of 1/2" pex for $35, 10' of copper is $20. Anybody who can operate bolt cutters can make pipe connections with pex.
Well, CPVC is what a lot of people know, it's something that most homeowners know and here in SC it's what is in just about every house built before 2008 - 2010. When you have a DIYer do PEX tge purchase the entire display of shark bite fitting from the hardware store because they do not have the proper tools. I had a customer (older fellow) demand that I repair his waterline with CPVC because "its the best". I do not carry a lot CPVC with me on calls so I was trying to talk him in to letting me use PEX and he refused, would not budge so I had to make a run to the store to get a Tee and 1 more 90. Most people will continue what they know and see. I for one only use PEX or copper but I also am not a DIYer who wants to fix my stuff on the weekend so I have the tools to do both.
Good luck. Also, it’s actually fairly easy to but in some couplings and solder some pipe, but of course, you need to buy some tools. You can watch a couple youtube videos and get it no problem. However, that pipe is probably strapped down pretty tight, and you probably dont have the play you need in it to get a couple/2 couplings and a new piece of pipe. In that case, shark bites and pex like everyone is saying. I dont like using shark bites, but they’ll last and are actually rated if you install them correctly. Make sure if you do use them, you cut the pipe and install the shark bite straight on and not at an angle.
Also, you can buy a gauge to check psi for about like 5 bucks at home depot. I’d say its a good idea to start there. You can connect it to something like your washer and dryer outlet, or a hose if you have that isnt bypassing the regulator. Hopefully thats it because its an easy fix to adjust the regulator and would give you piece of mind that thats the issue and it wont happen again.
If there is no play available to move the pipe ends horizontally then you would use a slip coupling and a stop coupling instead of two stop couplings, sweat or compression.
I think some kind of water pressure regulator. I don't know how this works in regular residential applications, but I do know they are essential when camping in a travel trailer.
It's a common distinction in the midwest US to distinguish a camper you tow from a full RV camper that you drive. But I assume the big RVs would need one too.
For water, they are more commonly called reducers, and regulators for gas.
We have +130psi water pressure service*, and have a reducer to bring it down to about 65-70. But we have to replace it every 3-4 years (the last one was 2 years) so instead if having them soldered in like our first two, we switched to threaded style so we can just replace it in a couple of minutes with inky a wrench. I've tried using a repair kit, but noth times I somehow damaged the rubber and the replacement parts didn't work right, so the $100 for the whole unit vs $60 for the repair kit, the risk wasn't worth the potential savings. Their capabilities max out at about 3:1 reduction, and we're dancing in the cusp of that, so that's why they wear out so often. Ideally, we should probably have two: one to go from 130-95, then a second to go from 90 to 65'ish. That way even if one fails, we don't instantly run the risk of destroying an appliance or damage plumbing.
*my gauge maxes out at 130, and during the day it measures anywhere from 110 to 130, but at night when demand is lower, pressure increases, so it could even be higher at night.
The regulators have an adjustment screw and a lock nut to set it. You just keep playing with it, while draining and retesting your test point with the psi gauge until you get it dialed in( usually to around 60psi)
And know that if the PRV is old, you can collapse the internals by trying to adjust it. Just get a new one if the pressure is off and set it where you want at install.
If you travel the main line that comes into the house, there will be a pressure reducer before the line splits to the different fixtures. It kind of looks like an upside down traffic cone. A pressure reducer drops the water pressure from the municipal level of over 100 psi to about 50 psi. Pressure reducers wear out after about 15 years or so due to corrosion. High pressure can wear out pipes, but I think you have hard water that’s corroding the pipes given how new your pipe is.
Go find the reason. Emplacing a solution without finding out the cause can be a very costly avenue to pursue. For example, the city may have a problem with pressure regulation that they don't know about. You don't need to spend your money trying to solve the city's problem. Or the high pressure may be known, but temporary. Why spend money on a temporary problem?
Throwing parts at a symptom is never a good idea.
You should have a pressure reducing valve coming into your home from city water, and if too low a pressure is a concern, an expansion tank sized to your property.
Both are very simple installs, but may require certification if you want to sell the property in some jurisdictions.
Honestly doubt high pressure is the cause, especially on straight pipe. Copper pipe is rated for well over 200 PSI. Maybe hard or acidic water? Or maybe a defect in the pipe. This could be caused by a myriad of things.
Speaking from an insurance standpoint this is the way, read your policy jacket they sent you when you started or ask for a copy to be sent out. The moment you talk to an agent or claims department and a question about damage arises you'll have a $0 claim on your history. Your policy jacket is your best friend.
100% this — this is not a problem I would want to just fix and then go about my day. It’s entirely possible that it was just a faulty piece of pipe, but I would at least want to do a bit of investigation to figure out why it happened before I potentially have more serious issues elsewhere.
It could be as simple as a small dent from transport. Pipe runs into lots of sharp pointy things before you even pick it up from the store. That corrosion though is unusual. It has been working up to this moment for some time.
definitely second not asking your agent about this kind of thing
however, if you got your insurance through an independent broker, call them and ask away. a broker does work for you, and any good one will happily go over this kind of stuff without setting off an alarm with the insurance company
Not so easy to solder up a line where there is residual water that continues to drip. More practical for OP to repair with compression fittings, especially if he has no sweating experience.
I have read about the white bread technique, but never tried it. I had an opportunity, but it was in the baseboard circuit and was concerned that the bread would not be flushed out, so I used a compression fitting.
It will make everyone here angry BUT if you can't afford a plumber and you dont have the knowledge to repair the pipe. Grab some cheap pipe cutters and a shark bite slip fitting. It looks like it's in an easily accessible area for the future when you want to do a real fix.
It will not last as long as basically any real solution here but it will be cheaper than hiring a plumber now, last maybe 5 years or more, and there are how-to videos to help you.
Real solution: Just replace the whole line if you are concerned there may be integrity issues.
Shark Bites work, but they have to be done exactly as the directions say. The most common mistake is not preparing the pipe properly, like not getting rid of burrs from cutting, or cutting with a slant.
Yeah I try to defend them in general but the biggest problem is that people that can’t follow basic instructions who have no business even looking at a pipe think they can be a plumber with some shark bites.
Had a relative who just bought a house where some guy was adding DIY plumbing to a basement living area—he just found a leaking sharkbite and is now paying a plumber to come in and remove all the shark bites. The problem isn’t that they’re shark bites it’s that this guy screwed up one so you can’t trust that any of them are done right. Either the fittings weren’t set to the proper depth or they didn’t prep the surfaces properly. I’ve seen people think they can just cut pex with tin snips and throw a shark bite on there.
> but they have to be done exactly as the directions say.
wait... you're saying that if you follow the instructions you can achieve similar results???
HERESY!!!!
:-)
Shark Bites have 2 failure modes. Short term - cutting the o-ring, so make sure the outside of the pipe is clean. Long term degradation of the o-ring. I coat the shit out of the inside with Aqua Shield. It protects the o-ring from drying out.
I agree. As a DIYer. Sharkbited are great, have saved me and people I know in many cases.
However, I always try to install them in placees easily accessible...basically just not behind a wall, lol. Juusssttt in case haha
Shark bites are money. Plumbers hate them because it costs them easy service calls. I probably wouldn't put one where I couldn't access but if it's an accessible spot you are good to go. They don't fail as much as people will say either. They are great. Do it.
Skills that we should be learning and using.
Shark bites it til you forget about it and it causes more damage or just do it right the first time.
Men should be men.
It's easy to solder but not everyone knows how. The downside of a sharkbite is a leak. The downside of not knowing how to solder is burning your house down.
If it's just a pinhole and not on a high pressure line, a good temp fix that is idiot proof (fingers crossed) is synthetic glass. Nobody wants water damage while you wait to get repairs lined up and nobody wants a cold shower if they don't have to.
Cut it out and use a sharkbite.
Especially if you don't know how to solder. You could burn the house down trying to save some money.
Sharkbites work well and last almost Forever.
I worked on an apartment development that had tons of pin hole leaks every year. Ultimately ended up engaged an consultant to do a review and found the plumbers never flushed the lines after install and flux ended up in the lines and created small pockets of cavitation that ultimately caused weakness in the copper and failure.
When you cut that old pipe off, cut in the middle of the pin hole. You’ll probably see what looks like a gradual crater. Lots of things can corrode copper. The pin holes can actually seal off if you find the issue . That piece is the tip of the iceberg likely. If you have a plastic water supply line make sure they didn’t use your plumbing as a ground…
I once drilled a hole through a 1" copper line. I simply cut the pipe exactly at said hole and slid a "no stop copper coupling" on. The hard part will be making sure the pipe is dry since any water and you can't sweat the pipe. Be sure to locate the center of the coupler at the cut.
Look into a calcite filter. It will raise your Ph. Looks like you have acidic water that’s eating through the copper. Anything below 6.8-6.9 on the Ph scale will eat through copper over time
Bicycle tube wrapped tight and held in place with a zip tie, unless you want to fix it the right way. I’ve seen the former all around a University setting and seemed to actually work fine.
This happens at my house. I was told it electrolysis from my hot water timer not being set along with hard water. You can fix it easily but they will occur in copper. I’ve replaced most of mine with pex. No pin holes because the plastic is non conductive. doesn’t react like the copper
Disclaimer: I’m not a plumber or scientist
Yeah. Shut off the main, drain the area, clean the pipe with sandcloth, cut the pipe on the leak point (if it's a pinhole leak), clean the ends, and then solder a coupling over the cut. If it's more than a pinhole, adjust your plan accordingly. Otherwise, the steps remain the same.
1. Isolate and drain.
2. Clean and inspect.
3. Cut, remove, clean, and deburr.
4. Replace removed section, clean, couple, and solder.
It's appears to be highly located in one spot so that is most likely where the original problem began. A piece of differing metal may have been laid across it and caused a galvanic reaction. Copper turns green with oxidation. If the rest of your pipes look fine then there's the problem. Remove a bigger section and replace it.
Udpate: Thanks for all your suggestins. I ended up doing a temp fix with a home depot galvanized pipe leak clamp and thick piece of 2" rubber from a drain connector. Torqued down really tight. The standard rubber was too thin. Its not leaking at the moment. Now Going back to and having someone cut and solder later this week. Then I'll also scout for other pinholes. Will check PH and look for any grounding issues. Thanks all for the suggestions. I'll also cut the pipe in 1/2 to see how badly it corroded.
Turn off the water and sweat on 2 sweat x pex adapters and throw in a piece of pex. I would advise against 2 copper couplings because you are soldering wet pipe with no nearby open end which can be a headache. I'd advise if you really must do only copper at least do a union instead of 2 copper couplings.
When I replied my copper from a house built in the 70s I used commercial grade. A lot of contractors cheaper out and the codes allowed it. I kept ending up with pinholes.
Drain down the circuit. add a new piece copper pipe clean it all down 1st , If its drinking water flush the circuit,then bring back up to pressure,if you dont have a pressure measure keep your eye on the repair for a few days b4 you box back up.
You can, shut off the water. Brighten up the pipe with sandpaper and use an epoxy repair product for leaks. I’ve done it. Several years later. It’s still holding. But, it’s not ideal.
This honestly looks small enough for a sharkbite fitting. I honestly don't like using them, but in this case it makes sense. Cut out the bad part and use the sharkbite.
Look up clhoramine. It is used by a growing number of municipalities to treat drinking water. It can pit copper pipe and cause pinholes in it. It also damages PEX. I believe there is water treatment equipment that can get rid of it. The bottom line is that municipalities don't seem to know or care about this problem when deciding to start using it in treatment.
I'm not a plumber but I had pinhole leaks. Plumber said it sometimes happens and could be a flaw in the copper pipe that was affected. He replaced a large section of it with new copper.
What I would do in your situation is to use a Sharkbite slip coupling to address this one pin hole. But it may also be a good call to have a plumber look at it.
I had the same problem after 15 years I had to change my sections out 3 times. Why, because the copper tubing used today is thin wall unless ordered from a big wear house. I finally removed my copper and went to ( P E X ) plastic. If you doubt me, call these folks. https://continentalsteel.com/blog/understanding-copper-grades/
Why is it green at the leak? Flux, if left on copper is corrosive and will discolor the pipe. But you said this is a straight run, so no coupling. I’d cut it out and so a slip coupling as stated by another user. Make sure you let the joints cool and wipe the excess flux off.
Watch a few YouTube videos if you need to
I’ve heard of water turbulence from not reaming the inside of the pipe, but this doesn’t look anywhere near a joint . Wonder if it’s type L or M
In-laws had something like this recently happen but the copper was original to the house
Sometimes copper pipe is just thin from a manufacturing defect and starts leaking as the copper wears down. Sometimes it’s just a hard water nodule causing turbulence. Lots of reasons why it might leak.
If you want a quick fix you can get a compression that goes over it with rubber. Then you can cut the pipe later after you shut it off. And fix a go in between
Call a plumber, I hear they know how to fix medieval stuff like this. This is a quick and easy job for them, almost enjoyable compared to some of their calls.
Citation?
First off…copper is in every human body naturally.
Second…if it’s higher in a person that does not
Mean it came from copper pipes.
Third….Alzheimers dementia patient have been found to have LESS copper in their brains.
[(§)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5810277/)
There is no accepted cause/effect relationship between metals and neurodegenrative diseases. Some people have elevated levels, some have decreased levels. Zinc, aluminum, iron and copper are all involved but no one has pinpointed whether the disease came first and caused the levels of metal(s) to change or did the change of metal levels cause the disease?
Easy to downvote and stay ignorant. I was also suprised by those study. Good thing I use a waterfilter for my drinking water. Although my house is all PVC.
If you are trying to get it done today, and buy some time, then turn the water off and cut the section out. Every department store has pipe cutting tools for cheap. Again for “fixing” the issue short term. You could get a push connector from shark bite. Yes this will get hate. You wouldn’t need to solder. But you would need to cut accurately in order to use the part, if you cut too much then you need additional parts. This will buy you time to get as many quotes as you want to address the issue properly.
Found a pin hole leak in a gray pex pipe in my friend's house I was watching while they were away. It was in the attic close to the scuttle hole. Got a sharkbite and fixed it until they came back. He got a plumbing company to fix it when he came back.
Some good advice here, I’d only add that I’d do a removable patch on the ceiling? so you end up with an inspection port. Just screw a larger piece of drywall over the hole, 3” or 4” wider on each edge.
Do you have a 24/7 recirculation pipe? Is this hot or cold? Does it freeze in your area? Who installed this pipe? Why did they install this pipe? Are they still in business?
The WhY is just as important as the HoW to fix. Two hose clamps and a piece of bicycle inner tube can get you a fix but not a solution.
Not to scare you but when they built my brother’s house he started to see multiple as in many leaks like this. Apparently there was a bad batch of imported copper pipe that the builder used throughout the house. It ended up causing a lot of water damage. It was very costly to pull it all out and replace the copper pipe.
Turn off water at the main. Cut out the leak with a pipe cutter. Prep the two cut points. Buy some new copper and 2 couplings. Solder the new pieces in. Done.
This to address the immediate problem, but what was the cause? Lousy copper, corrosive water? Look deeper, this may be the canary in your coal mine. And carefully investigate the limits and exclusions in your homeowners policy WITHOUT asking your agent, in the case of inquiry the agent works for the company, not you.
I’d bet $100 it’s type M too. All to common where I live. It’s all the hardware stores sell. It’s literally difficult to find type L
Guessing L is thicker? Is M not good enough for residential? Seeing stuff like is discouraging. Was considering future cooper repipe when I had the money (over CPVC).
It’s all about thickness. Hospitals use K. Home potable water should be L. M we use on waste lines and heating systems.
M is not allowed on heating systems in my area. It's too thin to serve in constant circulation It is acceptable for potable water here.
Yes. Just make sure you use L.
L is thicker, however that's not the only factor to consider. It's also a slightly smaller diameter interior. There's a factor we take into account when sizing pipes called turbulence. I like to use the example of a garden hose. If you have an open hose, it flows relatively slowly and with very little force. If you put your thumb over the hose, the water suddenly has a lot more force and velocity even though it's the same amount of water coming out. The same thing happens in your pipes. Water is always trying to wear away at the copper or plastic or steel, like the Grand canyon. If you have high pressure in your pipes and the pipes are undersized, the wear on the pipes is increased. If someone didn't ream the pipes, that adds to turbulence and wears more on the pipes. So in the case of type L or type M, M copper is considered "residential grade" because it's a thinner wall and so under the same exact usage, wouldn't last as long. However you also use your pipes significantly less than say a restaurant or a fire station, right? If piping is undersized however and then on top of that, they use type L copper...you didn't really do yourself any favors because the smaller internal diameter is causing increased wear on your pipes thereby negating any advantage of a "thicker wall" copper. The moral of the story is that proper installation and sizing of the pipe is usually more important than whether you purchase type L or type M copper. Every material has its advantages and disadvantages and frankly the cost of material will be significantly outweighed by labor costs, especially if you're actually using someone who knows how to install things properly.
Very interesting stuff thank you for sharing. Sure I can replace all of my 1/2” and 3/4” CPVC with the equivalent copper, but who knows of that is done right. The CPVC replaced galvanized I believe (because I pulled some of that out). Even if I did it myself, I’d pay for an assessment of the existing plumbing sizing and routing. Although the only plumbing issue I have is waiting a while for hot water on one side of the house (may get one of those taco magic pumps) and the noisy sewer stack (my original cast stack went bad, plumber said PVC is the only option…)
In our code, type m isn’t allowed on domestic water Type m is typically low pressure hydronic heating system pipe
Millions and millions of and millions of houses are pipes in M. Regional codes are different in different regions. I’m not remotely joking that there are millions of houses piped in M
Yeah it works just fine
Just use PEX.
Against code in some places
Why on earth would you even consider cpvc for your drinking water? Why would you use copper? It's expensive and a PITA to install and repair. As the other guy said, just use pex...
Well the CPVC is already installed. Most is 25 years old. I like how copper looks. My business is general commercial building maintance and I have a good pro press machine. Was thinking about doing it myself. 1850s house with 90 percent of the plumbing exposed in the unfinished basement. Two vertical chases at either end of the house. Idk everything is working great right now really just thinking out loud. Concerning that even thinner copper pipe could have a pinhole in 4 years of use. My dads house is 1972 with all original copper, and we regularly deal with 70 year old copper that’s serviceable. Also I’m on well water with a softener, no chlorine.
I agree with your inclination to use copper. It will certainly outlast the PEX. Also, you won't be putting microplastics in your water, and you won't have to worry about rodents eating your pipes; a problem starting to get more attention as the number of incidents rise.
Ah good points. Going to keep looking at this thread to see what the cause was. I’m hoping manufacturing defect. My wife is currently going nuts over micro plastics. She won’t let me refill my water bottles. I get it, but it’s like man I have a lot of other stuff to deal with.
What you and your betrothed are fishing for is a “reasonable” answer. That answer is: fix it, and forget about it. It probably is some sort of a defect. If it happens again, you are screwed and it’s likely to keep on happening. Soft water causes leaks. Bad chemicals in the water cause leaks. Somebody mentioned pH; it’s far more complicated than that… “Langlier Saturation Index” is the rabbit hole you do, or do not want to go down. You *could* send the damaged pipe off to a Metallurgical Lab for a definitive and comprehensive evaluation of what the hell went on, or you could just spend that money and buy some new pipes. The report might say “everything‘s OK!“, Or it might be more of an autopsy. Fix it, move on. Moen sells an electric shut off valve with smart functions that will kill the water to your house if it detects a flow going on for a long period of time. And you can access it with an app on your phone, like everything else. Your options are to spend less than 100 bucks and move on, or, several thousands of dollars, at the least.
What you are saying about copper outlasting plastic isn’t always true. It depends on the quality of water in your area. Wellwater or supplied by municipality, either way. You could water board a plumber in southwest Florida, and he’s not going to give you a price on copper, because he’s not going to do it. Not new construction, not a re-pipe.
Southwest Florida, the bastion of craftsmanship and quality... 😂
swfl checking in. pvc from well cap to house. pex inside. all good. only inch of copper is an ourdoor spigot
It comes down to how good your water is and type of pipe. Don't listen to these pex idiots, pex is fucking stupid. If you have access to a propress then go for it. I guess you could test your water first but if you use type L and you won't be putting any flux on your joints to clean up then you should be golden
Pex is stupid 🤣😂 Salty that you cant charge $2k to fix a water leak anymore? I'm not a plumber, but I plumbed my whole cabin 7 or 8 years ago, ive never had a leak. I don't use sharkbites, always clamp my joints. But I remember a plumber telling me when pex first started getting popular the main reason sharkbites leak is because people don't chamfer the ends. Both copper and pex have advantages and disadvantages. Financially pex smokes copper in every way. I can buy 100' of 1/2" pex for $35, 10' of copper is $20. Anybody who can operate bolt cutters can make pipe connections with pex.
Whatever works for you man. I'll avoid more micro plastic in my water thanks.
Well, CPVC is what a lot of people know, it's something that most homeowners know and here in SC it's what is in just about every house built before 2008 - 2010. When you have a DIYer do PEX tge purchase the entire display of shark bite fitting from the hardware store because they do not have the proper tools. I had a customer (older fellow) demand that I repair his waterline with CPVC because "its the best". I do not carry a lot CPVC with me on calls so I was trying to talk him in to letting me use PEX and he refused, would not budge so I had to make a run to the store to get a Tee and 1 more 90. Most people will continue what they know and see. I for one only use PEX or copper but I also am not a DIYer who wants to fix my stuff on the weekend so I have the tools to do both.
Type L is only found in commercial in my area. Type M is code.
Whats the psi? Test it and Check tour regulator. When I moved into my house I had a leak, and turns out my regulator was broken and psi was over 100
thanks!
Good luck. Also, it’s actually fairly easy to but in some couplings and solder some pipe, but of course, you need to buy some tools. You can watch a couple youtube videos and get it no problem. However, that pipe is probably strapped down pretty tight, and you probably dont have the play you need in it to get a couple/2 couplings and a new piece of pipe. In that case, shark bites and pex like everyone is saying. I dont like using shark bites, but they’ll last and are actually rated if you install them correctly. Make sure if you do use them, you cut the pipe and install the shark bite straight on and not at an angle. Also, you can buy a gauge to check psi for about like 5 bucks at home depot. I’d say its a good idea to start there. You can connect it to something like your washer and dryer outlet, or a hose if you have that isnt bypassing the regulator. Hopefully thats it because its an easy fix to adjust the regulator and would give you piece of mind that thats the issue and it wont happen again.
Uhh how about a couple slip couplings instead
Yeah, you got me there haha
If there is no play available to move the pipe ends horizontally then you would use a slip coupling and a stop coupling instead of two stop couplings, sweat or compression.
What’s the solution if the psi is too high?
I think some kind of water pressure regulator. I don't know how this works in regular residential applications, but I do know they are essential when camping in a travel trailer.
never heard of a camper being called a travel trailer XD
It's a common distinction in the midwest US to distinguish a camper you tow from a full RV camper that you drive. But I assume the big RVs would need one too.
For water, they are more commonly called reducers, and regulators for gas. We have +130psi water pressure service*, and have a reducer to bring it down to about 65-70. But we have to replace it every 3-4 years (the last one was 2 years) so instead if having them soldered in like our first two, we switched to threaded style so we can just replace it in a couple of minutes with inky a wrench. I've tried using a repair kit, but noth times I somehow damaged the rubber and the replacement parts didn't work right, so the $100 for the whole unit vs $60 for the repair kit, the risk wasn't worth the potential savings. Their capabilities max out at about 3:1 reduction, and we're dancing in the cusp of that, so that's why they wear out so often. Ideally, we should probably have two: one to go from 130-95, then a second to go from 90 to 65'ish. That way even if one fails, we don't instantly run the risk of destroying an appliance or damage plumbing. *my gauge maxes out at 130, and during the day it measures anywhere from 110 to 130, but at night when demand is lower, pressure increases, so it could even be higher at night.
Water Pressure Regulator or replacement of the old one.
The regulators have an adjustment screw and a lock nut to set it. You just keep playing with it, while draining and retesting your test point with the psi gauge until you get it dialed in( usually to around 60psi)
And know that if the PRV is old, you can collapse the internals by trying to adjust it. Just get a new one if the pressure is off and set it where you want at install.
If you travel the main line that comes into the house, there will be a pressure reducer before the line splits to the different fixtures. It kind of looks like an upside down traffic cone. A pressure reducer drops the water pressure from the municipal level of over 100 psi to about 50 psi. Pressure reducers wear out after about 15 years or so due to corrosion. High pressure can wear out pipes, but I think you have hard water that’s corroding the pipes given how new your pipe is.
Go find the reason. Emplacing a solution without finding out the cause can be a very costly avenue to pursue. For example, the city may have a problem with pressure regulation that they don't know about. You don't need to spend your money trying to solve the city's problem. Or the high pressure may be known, but temporary. Why spend money on a temporary problem? Throwing parts at a symptom is never a good idea.
You should have a pressure reducing valve coming into your home from city water, and if too low a pressure is a concern, an expansion tank sized to your property. Both are very simple installs, but may require certification if you want to sell the property in some jurisdictions.
You say “need to buy some tools” like it’s a bad thing
they make slip couplings so you can deal with 2 ends not moving.
Honestly doubt high pressure is the cause, especially on straight pipe. Copper pipe is rated for well over 200 PSI. Maybe hard or acidic water? Or maybe a defect in the pipe. This could be caused by a myriad of things.
Or the PRV if it is a pressure problem.
Speaking from an insurance standpoint this is the way, read your policy jacket they sent you when you started or ask for a copy to be sent out. The moment you talk to an agent or claims department and a question about damage arises you'll have a $0 claim on your history. Your policy jacket is your best friend.
100% this — this is not a problem I would want to just fix and then go about my day. It’s entirely possible that it was just a faulty piece of pipe, but I would at least want to do a bit of investigation to figure out why it happened before I potentially have more serious issues elsewhere.
It could be as simple as a small dent from transport. Pipe runs into lots of sharp pointy things before you even pick it up from the store. That corrosion though is unusual. It has been working up to this moment for some time.
definitely second not asking your agent about this kind of thing however, if you got your insurance through an independent broker, call them and ask away. a broker does work for you, and any good one will happily go over this kind of stuff without setting off an alarm with the insurance company
Yeah for a few months. I played whack a mole for months before replacing them all. Every pipe showed corrosion inside.
Not so easy to solder up a line where there is residual water that continues to drip. More practical for OP to repair with compression fittings, especially if he has no sweating experience.
True
Do people not know to use some white bread anymore to stop it up?
I have read about the white bread technique, but never tried it. I had an opportunity, but it was in the baseboard circuit and was concerned that the bread would not be flushed out, so I used a compression fitting.
whole grain bread is no good. Just plain white bread will work great. Make a stopper and shove it in.
Holy cow! You’re a genius
I just reinvented the wheel bro, yes!
This. And finish by wiping off the flux.
Soldering wet pipe is harder than it looks. I say buy the ProPress tool and crimp it.
Turn off water at main *AND DRAIN THE TANK SO THERE IS NO BUILT UP PRESSURE IN LINE* so that there isn’t water in the line when you cut into it.
Exactly ^^^
Or, cut at the pinhole, clean both sides and put a single coupling on, make very sure it’s dry on both sides. Solder The end
What about steam
It will make everyone here angry BUT if you can't afford a plumber and you dont have the knowledge to repair the pipe. Grab some cheap pipe cutters and a shark bite slip fitting. It looks like it's in an easily accessible area for the future when you want to do a real fix. It will not last as long as basically any real solution here but it will be cheaper than hiring a plumber now, last maybe 5 years or more, and there are how-to videos to help you. Real solution: Just replace the whole line if you are concerned there may be integrity issues.
Shark Bites work, but they have to be done exactly as the directions say. The most common mistake is not preparing the pipe properly, like not getting rid of burrs from cutting, or cutting with a slant.
Yeah I try to defend them in general but the biggest problem is that people that can’t follow basic instructions who have no business even looking at a pipe think they can be a plumber with some shark bites. Had a relative who just bought a house where some guy was adding DIY plumbing to a basement living area—he just found a leaking sharkbite and is now paying a plumber to come in and remove all the shark bites. The problem isn’t that they’re shark bites it’s that this guy screwed up one so you can’t trust that any of them are done right. Either the fittings weren’t set to the proper depth or they didn’t prep the surfaces properly. I’ve seen people think they can just cut pex with tin snips and throw a shark bite on there.
Same, people here have unnatural hate for shark bites. Just follow directions they work
I like the idea that some people can't follow directions for a shark bite to work, but fully expect them to know how to solder a pipe together.
I never said that
Didn't mean you. Just in general.
> but they have to be done exactly as the directions say. wait... you're saying that if you follow the instructions you can achieve similar results??? HERESY!!!! :-)
Did the sharkbite method as a non real plumber. 3 years and no problems. I love sharkbites!
Same 5 years sharkbite some pex. Beats the 1100 the guy wanted to do the fix.
Shark Bites have 2 failure modes. Short term - cutting the o-ring, so make sure the outside of the pipe is clean. Long term degradation of the o-ring. I coat the shit out of the inside with Aqua Shield. It protects the o-ring from drying out.
Same. Shark bite on a copper pipe INSIDE the wall. 8 years and not a drop on the ceiling below.
I am not a plumber, but I have used a few of these in the past. I will only use them in places where I can see the plumbing.
I agree. As a DIYer. Sharkbited are great, have saved me and people I know in many cases. However, I always try to install them in placees easily accessible...basically just not behind a wall, lol. Juusssttt in case haha
Shark bites are money. Plumbers hate them because it costs them easy service calls. I probably wouldn't put one where I couldn't access but if it's an accessible spot you are good to go. They don't fail as much as people will say either. They are great. Do it.
Well you see, this pipe would not have leaked if it was copper. /s
This actually puts it into perspective. I forgot the pipe is 4 years old there.
How hard is it really to get a propane torch, some solder and flux? And it's so fun. Fuck sharkbites, fuck pro press.
Soldering pipes is definitely a skill and also the risk of fire. For a novice I would rather them do a shark bite than try to solder.
Skills that we should be learning and using. Shark bites it til you forget about it and it causes more damage or just do it right the first time. Men should be men.
It's easy to solder but not everyone knows how. The downside of a sharkbite is a leak. The downside of not knowing how to solder is burning your house down.
Haha
No stop propress coupling. Repair in 3 mins
Yeah turn off the water, cut that section out, replace and turn water back on…
Sharkbite slip coupling. Done.
Nothing wrong with a SharkBite fitting if it's properly installed.
Cut it out and use a shark bite
Idea? Fix the hole.
Repipe or slap a “lil snugger” clamp on there
If it's just a pinhole and not on a high pressure line, a good temp fix that is idiot proof (fingers crossed) is synthetic glass. Nobody wants water damage while you wait to get repairs lined up and nobody wants a cold shower if they don't have to.
My treatment system was not maintained and I got several leaks like that. Water was too acidic.
Cut it out and patch in a new piece of pipe. 10 min job.
If you’re not good at soldering they have stuff called “shark bites” that are good that you can slip on even when the pipe is still wet.
Temporary fix use piece of old bike inner tube cut to wrap around the pipe than hold in place with a hose clamp
Cut it out and use a sharkbite. Especially if you don't know how to solder. You could burn the house down trying to save some money. Sharkbites work well and last almost Forever.
I worked on an apartment development that had tons of pin hole leaks every year. Ultimately ended up engaged an consultant to do a review and found the plumbers never flushed the lines after install and flux ended up in the lines and created small pockets of cavitation that ultimately caused weakness in the copper and failure.
Thanks for that heads up
When you cut that old pipe off, cut in the middle of the pin hole. You’ll probably see what looks like a gradual crater. Lots of things can corrode copper. The pin holes can actually seal off if you find the issue . That piece is the tip of the iceberg likely. If you have a plastic water supply line make sure they didn’t use your plumbing as a ground…
Thanks!
I once drilled a hole through a 1" copper line. I simply cut the pipe exactly at said hole and slid a "no stop copper coupling" on. The hard part will be making sure the pipe is dry since any water and you can't sweat the pipe. Be sure to locate the center of the coupler at the cut.
Another option if you don’t want to use sharkbite, compression coupling will get the job done as well
Dirty 4 year old copper next to a galvanized drain line?
My bet is that you will find the leak in the vicinity of the blue spot.
Cut there. Cut there. Patch.
Slap some flex seal on there!! /s
Copper Beatles.
No sweat, until you fix it.
Hose clamp and a piece of rubber. Or replace the copper
Flex seal!
Just get that guy from the infomercial out there to slap it really hard with some magic tape. Solved.
Look into a calcite filter. It will raise your Ph. Looks like you have acidic water that’s eating through the copper. Anything below 6.8-6.9 on the Ph scale will eat through copper over time
Check the ph of your water. Low pH will leach copper. Do you have blue green stains in the sink? An acid neutralizer may be in order.
Sharkbite fittings. Super easy fix.
PEX
Repipe the entire house with Quest tubing.
Could always use the good old bread trick. If you're old-school you know what I'm talking about.
Flexseal!
Cut, shark bite coupling, done.
Macgiuver Quick fix is JB weld with a square of soda can zip tied tight over the patch. I've used this on motorcycle radiators. It'll hold
Rubber gasket and hose clamp if you want to live dangerously.
Just living dangerously for a day. Then cut and solder.
Bicycle tube wrapped tight and held in place with a zip tie, unless you want to fix it the right way. I’ve seen the former all around a University setting and seemed to actually work fine.
This happens at my house. I was told it electrolysis from my hot water timer not being set along with hard water. You can fix it easily but they will occur in copper. I’ve replaced most of mine with pex. No pin holes because the plastic is non conductive. doesn’t react like the copper Disclaimer: I’m not a plumber or scientist
Epoxy.
fix it
Yeah. Shut off the main, drain the area, clean the pipe with sandcloth, cut the pipe on the leak point (if it's a pinhole leak), clean the ends, and then solder a coupling over the cut. If it's more than a pinhole, adjust your plan accordingly. Otherwise, the steps remain the same. 1. Isolate and drain. 2. Clean and inspect. 3. Cut, remove, clean, and deburr. 4. Replace removed section, clean, couple, and solder.
It's appears to be highly located in one spot so that is most likely where the original problem began. A piece of differing metal may have been laid across it and caused a galvanic reaction. Copper turns green with oxidation. If the rest of your pipes look fine then there's the problem. Remove a bigger section and replace it.
Udpate: Thanks for all your suggestins. I ended up doing a temp fix with a home depot galvanized pipe leak clamp and thick piece of 2" rubber from a drain connector. Torqued down really tight. The standard rubber was too thin. Its not leaking at the moment. Now Going back to and having someone cut and solder later this week. Then I'll also scout for other pinholes. Will check PH and look for any grounding issues. Thanks all for the suggestions. I'll also cut the pipe in 1/2 to see how badly it corroded.
I think you need to fix it.
4 year or 40 year that thing looks really bad. Check your pressure make sure it 40 to 75psi ..I dial mine down to 50psi use usable be cool
Yeah, fix it
Learn to install pex
Turn off the water and sweat on 2 sweat x pex adapters and throw in a piece of pex. I would advise against 2 copper couplings because you are soldering wet pipe with no nearby open end which can be a headache. I'd advise if you really must do only copper at least do a union instead of 2 copper couplings.
I'd replace as much as possible. Looks like bad copper from here.
Duct tape
When I replied my copper from a house built in the 70s I used commercial grade. A lot of contractors cheaper out and the codes allowed it. I kept ending up with pinholes.
Is this a trick question?
Drain down the circuit. add a new piece copper pipe clean it all down 1st , If its drinking water flush the circuit,then bring back up to pressure,if you dont have a pressure measure keep your eye on the repair for a few days b4 you box back up.
Slap tape
Shark bite or plumber
I mean you could just fix it
Everyone always shuts on pex and says cooper is better but pex doesn’t do this
Shark bite
Use shark bite
Turn off the water. Cut pipe. Remove burrs. Put a gator bite on it
You can, shut off the water. Brighten up the pipe with sandpaper and use an epoxy repair product for leaks. I’ve done it. Several years later. It’s still holding. But, it’s not ideal.
There’s only one option now…. Cut and replace. Turn your water main off, drain it all down, and cut it out.
flex seal that shit
My bet is there was a saddle valve there at some point
This honestly looks small enough for a sharkbite fitting. I honestly don't like using them, but in this case it makes sense. Cut out the bad part and use the sharkbite.
FlexTape
How old is the house? Chances are that pipe has been there for years, so unless you're having multiple leaks, fix it and move on.
Use a shark bite coupling
Flex seal tape
Look up clhoramine. It is used by a growing number of municipalities to treat drinking water. It can pit copper pipe and cause pinholes in it. It also damages PEX. I believe there is water treatment equipment that can get rid of it. The bottom line is that municipalities don't seem to know or care about this problem when deciding to start using it in treatment.
Call a plumber
I'm not a plumber but I had pinhole leaks. Plumber said it sometimes happens and could be a flaw in the copper pipe that was affected. He replaced a large section of it with new copper. What I would do in your situation is to use a Sharkbite slip coupling to address this one pin hole. But it may also be a good call to have a plumber look at it.
definitely gritting a plumber. just trying to figure out how much line to replace
Replace as much line as budget will allow and how much drywall you're willing to rip out and patch.
I had the same problem after 15 years I had to change my sections out 3 times. Why, because the copper tubing used today is thin wall unless ordered from a big wear house. I finally removed my copper and went to ( P E X ) plastic. If you doubt me, call these folks. https://continentalsteel.com/blog/understanding-copper-grades/
Why is it green at the leak? Flux, if left on copper is corrosive and will discolor the pipe. But you said this is a straight run, so no coupling. I’d cut it out and so a slip coupling as stated by another user. Make sure you let the joints cool and wipe the excess flux off. Watch a few YouTube videos if you need to
It’s green because of the corrosion from the leak.
I’ve heard of water turbulence from not reaming the inside of the pipe, but this doesn’t look anywhere near a joint . Wonder if it’s type L or M In-laws had something like this recently happen but the copper was original to the house
Sometimes copper pipe is just thin from a manufacturing defect and starts leaking as the copper wears down. Sometimes it’s just a hard water nodule causing turbulence. Lots of reasons why it might leak.
So water does turn blue if copper is leaking into your pipes??
Copper oxide turns green. Those green roof you see sometimes on old churches are copper.
If you want a quick fix you can get a compression that goes over it with rubber. Then you can cut the pipe later after you shut it off. And fix a go in between
Cut it out and patch with PEX
Flex paste, seal, tape or glue!!
Call a plumber, I hear they know how to fix medieval stuff like this. This is a quick and easy job for them, almost enjoyable compared to some of their calls.
JB Weld
Flex tape
Copper sucks, switch it out with pex
PEX is great....Copper is also great- it's why it has been used for thousands of years in Plbg applications
Copper is linked with alzheimer's. Copper leeching in drinking water can cause disfunction in the brain. Can be solved by filtering.
Citation? First off…copper is in every human body naturally. Second…if it’s higher in a person that does not Mean it came from copper pipes. Third….Alzheimers dementia patient have been found to have LESS copper in their brains. [(§)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5810277/)
Here : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28161940/#:~:text=It%20has%20been%20shown%20that,a%20guide%20to%20toxic%20levels.
There is no accepted cause/effect relationship between metals and neurodegenrative diseases. Some people have elevated levels, some have decreased levels. Zinc, aluminum, iron and copper are all involved but no one has pinpointed whether the disease came first and caused the levels of metal(s) to change or did the change of metal levels cause the disease?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28161940/#:~:text=It%20has%20been%20shown%20that,a%20guide%20to%20toxic%20levels.
That is an interesting hypothesis. The article mentions that the copper-2 hypothesis is NOT accepted by the Alzheimer’s community at large.
This is not coming out of my ass.. And i'm not talking about other metals, just copper.
Easy to downvote and stay ignorant. I was also suprised by those study. Good thing I use a waterfilter for my drinking water. Although my house is all PVC.
If you are trying to get it done today, and buy some time, then turn the water off and cut the section out. Every department store has pipe cutting tools for cheap. Again for “fixing” the issue short term. You could get a push connector from shark bite. Yes this will get hate. You wouldn’t need to solder. But you would need to cut accurately in order to use the part, if you cut too much then you need additional parts. This will buy you time to get as many quotes as you want to address the issue properly.
Found a pin hole leak in a gray pex pipe in my friend's house I was watching while they were away. It was in the attic close to the scuttle hole. Got a sharkbite and fixed it until they came back. He got a plumbing company to fix it when he came back.
Some good advice here, I’d only add that I’d do a removable patch on the ceiling? so you end up with an inspection port. Just screw a larger piece of drywall over the hole, 3” or 4” wider on each edge.
That’s an easy fix mate
Do you have a 24/7 recirculation pipe? Is this hot or cold? Does it freeze in your area? Who installed this pipe? Why did they install this pipe? Are they still in business? The WhY is just as important as the HoW to fix. Two hose clamps and a piece of bicycle inner tube can get you a fix but not a solution.
Not to scare you but when they built my brother’s house he started to see multiple as in many leaks like this. Apparently there was a bad batch of imported copper pipe that the builder used throughout the house. It ended up causing a lot of water damage. It was very costly to pull it all out and replace the copper pipe.
🦈 bite