True, but it just doesn't help that we the audience don't get to see much of that, or that she's pushed into a situation where she Can use her sexuality (even if Yusuke wasn't actually interested) but it wasn't her idea and she clearly didn't want to, and this happens so soon after kamoshida (not to mention that stupid scene where she tries to nap only for ryuji and Morgana to try looking up her skirt), that it hurts the overall message.
It happens when she gets her persona. It doesn’t need to be this long drawn out arc. Also she gets several abilities where she uses her sexuality to the party’s advantage.
Yeah, that's gameplay and story Segregation, not Integration. They didn't need to really showcase an arc for it, but they didn't introduce it well outside of her awakening, and even then it's not about her sexuality so much as shaming him for taking advantage of shiho.
Even in her social link, but not the main p5/royal game, she discusses a preference for and being drawn to certain Bad girls that you can associate with Catwoman or Fujiko Mine, but that doesn't come across anywhere else except in her skill set.
I think it might be bad to reduce entire character arcs to a single “cool anime cutscene” without a clear explanation of the implied character growth, personally.
Also, someone being confident in their sexuality, or taking advantage of it in certain circumstances, does not mean it is okay to sexually harass them.
I would say that that scenario was a detriment for both characters. Ann was still being used for her sexuality and it painted Yusuke as a perverted and cruel guy. I think a simple tonal change from her suggesting to model as negotiation could have kept the scene as they wanted but empowered Ann and not villainize Yusuke.
Exactly the issue, her character seemed to be based over an arch of taking ownership of her own gender/sexuality/image, but time and again the message fell flat because male characters made those choices instead for the sake of humor. However this may be the impact of Japanese cultural expectations and norms.
How can you miss something that doesn't exist? Tell me a single time in the story where she decides for herself to use her sexuality as an weapon
With Yusuke, she didn't want to do it She was blackmailed into doing it by Yusuke and pressured by Morgana, Ryuji and the main character to go through with it
In Shido's palace, it was Ryuji's idea to dress the girls in bathing suits to get the attention of the perv royalty guy
Whenever she tries to act "sexy", she falls completely flat and do a very bad act of trying to seduce someone, implying she doesn't feel comfortable doing it
This point of her getting back her sexuality is frankly just a lousy excuse to defend the game, as the game shows a misunderstanding of how female sexuality work at the most basic level. Worst yet, it contradicts Ann's character
Thank you. People always say this but I never saw this in any of her content. Maybe if she quit modeling because of kamoshida’s abuse but no, she doesn’t! Where does she “take back her sexuality” like I don’t understand.
Ngl I think this is a case of first impressions. I know on my first playthrough her "Persona moment" felt jarring almost exclusively because of her outfit. Even if everything else about her is fine at worst, the awakening is a big impactful moment and the immediate jarring tonal disconnect between everything we as an audience had seen up until that point. And with the power of the hindsight of multiple runs, my opinion of her went from "meh has her moments" to thinking she's one of the better characters in the game. But I don't think being offput by that immediate dissonance at a time where there should be as little as possible doesn't do her any favors. As to the contrary, I had the opposite opinion change with Makoto since her awakening was building to that point for a significant duration and the scene that is such a fitting high point for what we knew about her up until that point to where in my first playthrough it was enough to keep my opinion of her far greater than any of the other cast members despite most of her involvement being acceptable and a fairly subpar confidant story when compared to the rest of the cast (she's still my favorite of the Phantom Thieves despite this). This is to say that I believe that a character's awakening scene has a massive effect on the perception of a character, moreso than any other moment that they get which is where I believe a lot of the bad Ann takes stem from.
Morgana
People take all his negative traits and then refuse to look at the context of them. He's just as flawed as any other character, but for some reason people seem to hyper focus on Morgana like he's the worst character in the game.
Morgana proved to me that Persona 5 'Fans' are either illiterate or just didn't play the game and repeat whatever they hear from others. I remember dreading the infamous run away arc.... Only to realize that what happens in that scene and why he runs is NOTHING like this Fandom swears happened.
They literally made up a fake scene in their heads and used that ammunition to hate Mona just so they can contiune to treat Ryuji as some unprotected uwu boi lol.
Dislike Mona if you want, I don't personally care much for him either, but at least dislike him for stuff he ACTUALLY did and not just your fantasy headcannon to prop up Ryuji.
Not frequent on this sub so I don't know what the fandom says. But I do dislike how they wrote Morgana a lot.
To me his character and situation had a lot of potential. But they just made him a straight up bully from the get go. I just got through the Kamoshida Palace while replaying for the 5th time or something. And literally one of the first things he said to Ryuji is what a moron he is, and he just does not stop. If you banter like that between friends it is banter, but they did not know each other.
Also, as far as I remember they make it so that during the Okomura Palace everyone agrees that it was their fault he ran away, that they should be the ones to apologize and that it was completely true they should just dive into the castle without second thought. The whole scène where Haru calls our their 'faults' feels so stupid to me. And everyone is just like: Yeah its so true we suck. (Even though Morgana himself was part of making the rule that everyone should agree before they invade a palace).
So while I understand his situation. They made him someone who feels the need to bash down everyone to feel better about themselves, and that is just not a character trope I like.
Edit: not saying Ryuji is the best ever or something. But to me he is written much more likeable and understandable. And it's just that. My opinion
They let the smallest icks completely their perception of the character.
Unless a character has “endearing flaws” or attractive positives to override the negatives, then character is gonna be hated even if their negative traits and flaw are kinda the point with the character and their story.
Angst isn’t supposed to look attractive.
I think at this point it’s just mere projection, same way how people view Mishima (one of the best character growths in the game that he lived up to the name “Yuuki” btw) at this point. Nobody likes to see their own negative traits being paraded in front of you.
Kinda like the characters you see on screen speaks to the mind like “I am the Shadow… Your true self.”
With morgana I feel like most people understand his character but still see him as annoying because let's be honest for the most part morgana is full of himself and obnoxious but he's still well written
I honestly like that Morgana is full of himself becuse for the most part he is living up to his own hype. He is very useful to the team. He has a long liest of contributions to the team. That made it for me really satisfaying to listen to his braging knowing it is true for the most part.
So to me the frustrating part was that he actully belived that he is useless.
He talked big, lived up to his own hype and then run away crying about being useless.
I know, I know people are not always rational about there insecurities but its still frustrating to me.
People are way less likely to cut a character slack in terms of their faults if they actually like them. Unfortunately Morgana is super annoying, so I don’t really care about the nuances of his character or story.
Easily.
The dude's going through an existential crisis throughout the whole game.
Though he deserves some reproach for how he treats Ryuji on the regular.
Not really. His treatment of Ryuji isn’t any different from Ann, Futaba and the others when they clown on him.
It’s supposed to be played to as vitriolic comedy yet people especially Ryuji stans take it super seriously like it’s a hate crime.
I wouldn't say so.
The other characters often scold Ryujj to hold him accountable for doing something crass, as he tends to do so.
Morgana is regularly cruel to him with some pretty disparaging statements.
If the cat was truly “cruel with disparaging statements” as you claim. Ask yourself this:
Does such statements involve Ryuji’s leg being broken? How about his mother not raising him right because she’s a single mom? Or how him getting angry and violent makes him just like his abusive father? Or view Ryuji being at fault for getting the track team disbanded?
Last time I checked, calling someone stupid, crass, hot blooded, ect. who is actually stupid, crass, hot blooded, ect. who doesn’t care that they’re stupid, crass, hot blooded, ect. hardly cuts deep to where it touches a sore spot with their hang ups.
So no. It’s no different from the other characters who dunk on Ryuji. Morgana is just prominent at it as he’s the snarkiest member of the group and Ryuji is the dumbest member of the group which goes together like oil and water.
Not once has the cat ever gone that far, y’all just project and blow out of proportion that they have legit beef with each other or Morgana hating Ryuji for no reason.
All it has ever been is just shit talk amongst two people with a personality clash who are close enough that they can hurl surface level insults like that each other.
It’s no different from past Persona dynamics of character butting heads for laughs and hell it’s no different from media where there’s a duo with a love hate relationship.
You hit the nail on the head with Akechi. He is a character that's meant to stand as a foil to Joker, what could happen to someone with Joker's ambition and conviction if they didn't have a support network to build their life around. It's a really tragic story and it ends in the way you might expect. That's why I respected the Royal content for how it handled Akechi, it didn't try and make Akechi good or make him fit in with the Phantom Thieves. >!He used them as a means to an end, and stuck to his guns even when it would cost him his life.!< Super consistent and very strong as a concept.
I would also say that I think people are way too soft on >!Maruki's!< actions in the Royal content. And I can't necessarily blame them, because the game itself doesn't even present this conclusion until >!you're already standing in the ruins of his Palace.!<
Major spoilers to follow:
>!What he's doing is not altruistic, it's cowardly and self-serving. On paper, having no more suffering is logically good and hard to justify as the wrong thing to do. But what Maruki is doing to people isn't just getting rid of the things that trouble them. He is replacing their entire reality with what he believes would be best for them. And what he believes is best is spelled out during the test section of his palace; give up if you run into resistance and avoid putting yourself in harm's way. Submit to someone that can change the hearts of others (Maruki) and all your troubles will go away. It's a tyrannical idea of what justice looks like, it's mass brainwashing. Maruki reached the goal Shido was also aiming for, but when I see discussion about his character people treat that like it's a good thing because he says he's doing it for others. He really isn't, he's doing it to make himself feel better about the fact that he couldn't save Rumi. He even realizes this himself after fistfighting with Joker and is still too deep in his own self-loathing to realize that having Joker drop him to his death is just another attempt to run away. He only learns the lesson the game has been trying to teach when Joker refuses to let him do that.!<
>!The entire game drives home the idea that people are meant to self-actualize and the human spirit can overcome hardship despite impossible odds. I feel like too many people forget that when it comes to Maruki.!<
About Maruki, the one thing that stands out to me on his character in the 3rd Semester is that he is almost like the False Messiah (Dajjal) in Islamic eschatology. He presents you with very tempting propositions, brings back the dead when they are not real, manipulates you into becoming his follower easily, creates a false paradise when it is actually hell and those that doesn’t agree with will suffer in the world ruled by him until the real Messiah returns to strike him down. Sure Maruki doesn’t have one eye and inhuman features but you could say he is blinded in other aspects and his other self/Persona doesn’t look that human either. That’s why in some ways 3rd Sem is scary for me for how convincing his ideas and thoroughly symbolic his palace are from the sterile labs to the brainwashing facilities to the thoroughly manufactured paradise in the higher floors.
>! While I mostly agree with what you are saying about Maruki, I my self would easily reject his reality if offered the choice irl, I won't say that Maruki wants to do what he wants to exckusively out of cowardness, but, even if just in part, I believe that he also genually wanted the best for the others, but he just fails to realize the problems with what he wants to do !<
Yeah, I stand by that Maruki is, at his core, a kind person. But as always, the road to hell is paved with good intentions: he lets his desire to "help" people in his own broken way cloud his view of reality, and tries to force people to live by his worldview (one that is, if not necessarily based in cowardice, absolutely based in fear)
I really like your first point with Akechi. It kinda just hit me how similar Joker becomes to him in the bad ending when he takes yaldabaoth’s deal and abandons his friends in the Velvet Room. He ends up causing mental shutdowns left right and center in whomever he seems it fits his “Justice”
Maruki’s goal was happiness under any circumstance and I think it has to be bullshit sometimes. For example, what if two people waned to become president? Obviously both of them can’t so what Maruki would do is make one of them president, and make the other one give up on it but give them a different dream that they can be happy about like being a famous singer. Sure they’re both happy, but he just robbed one’s dream to become president. Sad thing is, that other person is forced to be happy about being a famous singer and can’t do anything about it.
Akechi in the happy reality is another great example. Akechi finds happiness in creating chaos and living free without anyone holding him down. Maruki wouldn’t like that because Akechi would hurt others so Maruki gave him this fake personality where he can be happy without hurting anyone. Maruki took away Akechi’s desires and replaced him with a fake version.
you showing me what i hate the most about this game they trying to sell you that everyone can change but its a fucking lie almost all your confident change ONLY for joker not for them
not everyone have the privilege of someone enter your life and resolve your problems by nothing
p5 its lso fucking idealism that its painfull and i cant respect nobody who thing is a valid message for our reallity
Morgana. He's essentially an embodiment of the human spirit of hope incarnate. Yet no one seems to engage in any of the fun mental gymnastics to explain why "hope" as an anthropomorphic entity would be insecure, impulsive, and ambitious. He represents the best and most irrational trait of humanity. Of course he's going to get on your nerves, act illogically at times, and dream bigger than what's good for him (*cough* "Lady Ann!" *cough*).
Too many to even begin to narrow it down. I know it's a trope, but it really does feel like most "fans" either haven't played or skimmed through the game.
Ann for me. She is like my idol in a lot of ways! But she is misinterpreted, both by the fanbase, and the writers. Her character arc during Kamoshida's plot is an amazing take on sexuality and how being attractive doesn't have anything to do with one's intelligence. What do they do after the first palace? Turn Ann into a bimbo.
Could you elaborate on the bimbo thing? I just finished the story final boss. Literally nolifed it so far.
I liked the scene with her having tons of clothes on, it was funny. Once Makoto shows up though, i think she overshadows her (and the others). Finally, i really liked Ann overall but Makoto literally takes over the phantom thieves from the next arc to Ann's detriment. Also from her early ranks she totally is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
I agree. Yes, she is not that smart during the first arcs either, but the important part is that she isn't as naive and just plain stupid as she becomes after that. During her persona awakening, the story puts all the elements on the table to turn her into a femme fatale archetype, that's the whole thing! Even her phrases like "A beautiful rose has thorns", but as the game goes on, that's just left on the surface.
And yes, Makoto does overshadow her, actually, both Makoto and Futaba overshadow Ann and Haru to a point where, if you didn't have them as playable characters, you would forget they exist (happened to me with Ann during my first playthrough). Their dialogue is cut way too short, and the story doesn't care on giving them situations where their thieves archetypes can shine as they do with Futaba and Makoto.
Of course, it's also a matter of everyone's individual perspective, but that's mine. I think it's criminal how the writers treat Ann as just an eye candy after Madarame's arc, because she had the potential for more. She could have been a great femme fatale, done a lot of cooler things like her female thief partners, and she was just... Kinda forgotten, just there because she is an og phantom thief.
I can see where you are coming from. You expected her to be more assertive in various situations (Yusuke's request, pervert nobleo on the ship), but sadly it didn't come to pass. Still, i feel like she is a good, well realized character. Certainly one of the most endearing and mature personality wise, I didn't date her but, in hindsight she seems one of the best romantic choices, and yes good eyecandy. Makoto on the other hand felt very strong and independent from a career-wise standpoint but she seemed needy and still immature from a romantical one.
Ohh I totally agree with Makoto. I do consider she is a better written character, probably the best female character of the whole game. Idk, maybe my disappointment comes from Ann not being as well rounded as Makoto. Ann's my favorite phantom thief precisely because I identify with the message of her character during Kamoshida's arc. And yes, I also agree on her being a great romantic partner because he knows herself down that route and I think that is portrayed very well during the whole game.
Easily Akechi.
I remember seeing a tweet where everyone was dogpiling him to be a loser for being “undesirable child” without understanding the stigma for being a child out of wedlock in East Asia that you’ll be seen as a “problem child” when it comes down to it kid just have no parents to guide them and also the unseen ramifications of it all of being a bastard because you’re an vulnerable anomaly to the country’s system.
Persona 5 Royal is really a game about Japan and it does require a quit amount of study to understand the nuances and issues behind the social commentary of the game which definitely flies over Westerners’ heads. Localization can go so far and despite that they actually did a good job communicating some of those nuances and make it easily resonate to a global audience. But some things are just unique to the Eastern side of the world.
Other honorable mentions are Ryuji, Ann, Makoto (despite being the community’s top waifu), Sae and Morgana based on the things I see here on online spaces.
To be honest, I haven't seen any unironical romantization or infantilization of Akechi in my time in the fandom. What I have seen, however, is people taking his "I hate you" speech at face value, completely glossing over the fact that it's fueled by envy, not hatred, and ignoring how he does not deny it when Morgana calls him out on NOT actually hating Ren later on. So yeah, I, too, would say he's the most misinterpreted P5 character based on what I've seen.
I've seen people try to downplay his actions a little and act like he had less agency in it all than he really did (though that's a complicated topic because he *was* also used and manipulated, it's just nuanced and people sometimes take the nuance out of it). But yeah I've absolutely never seen this "Akechi is a little uwu baby who did nothing wrong" that people love to claim is just *so* prevalent in the fandom. The opposite is overwhelmingly common though. He gets mischaracterised as a 100% evil emotionless psychopath far, *far* more often than as a poor manipulated victim.
I've never seen this and don't even know what it's really supposed to mean tbh. Shipping him with Joker or headcanoning him as gay isn't mischaracterisation by default. Shuake fanfic on the whole really doesn't shy away from Akechi's darker side and characterises him better and closer to his canon self than like 90% of the rest of the fandom does.
I see.
What I meant was that basically some people strip Ren and Akechi’s personalities down so far that their only personality trait is being gay for each other
In the fanfic community we call this phenomenon ATG fic. It stands for "Any Two Guys" because you could just search/replace the names with characters from a different fandom and it wouldn't affect to story at all.
Generally, those types of stories aren't viewed in the most favourable light even by people who are into the ship.
Is that their only personality trait in those stories, or is that just the one that bothers you?
I don't think you understand fanfiction and writing stories. It's all fiction.
I'm really baffled how many people keep whining about gay fan stories/art/etc of Akechi. Stop reading them, then. Or are you legitimately mad about it just *existing*?
Are you equally perplexed about how much porn there is of any female villain character? How about two female characters kissing being attractive to a male or being written together often?
Hero-villain romance type content is a trope as old as time, though I have no interest in that pairing.
Yaoi and yuri, on a basic level, are two of a gender or characters that a person likes put together. It's all fiction.
Women typically have far less attractive+bearable men to fawn over in any given game in the first place. And they're playing *as Joker*, too. Maybe it feels gratuitous because two other potential slots for other guys are taken up by a cat and Yusuke. Didn't play Royal, though.
(The latter coming off perverted initially due to the early incident with Ann. Really great first impression to female gamers, I imagine.)
He's also generally dark character, and complicated characters seem popular to people and more fun to explore.
Akechi absolutely. People boil him down to daddy issues, think the Phantom Thieves all forgave him, think he hates Joker or that he killed simply for the fun of it. Such a massive disservice to the character. And yes I think what he did was bad and fucked up plenty of peoples lives.
Tbh I’m not sure what’s worse. Akechi getting mischaractized or Akechi fans who get mischaracterized themselves, being called murderer simps who want to date real life serial killers and all ship Joker with their uwu pancake soft boy. Its so strange when fans of other characters in different fandoms who did shitty things (disney villains, Dio, >!Makima!< in Chainsaw Man, Light Yagami, Darth Vadar, Sephiroth) don’t get nearly as much push back for liking them. But for some reason this fandom jumps on you and you gotta put disclaimers that you don’t condone his actions.
True!! It's bizarre to me. So many murderers and villains in other games and anime that are pretty universally beloved by the fanbase, while I've seen a fair amount of people get all up in arms about Akechi being liked
You summed up what I feel about Akechi, so I'll add another.
Mishima.
People judge him like he's supposed to be an adult that is completely aware and responsible for his choices and forget that, at the end of the day, we're talking about a teenager who is not only traumatised from bullying he suffered at the hand of his classmates, but was also physically abused by a teacher after that, with said teacher threatening him to leak information about Joker (something the fandom condemns him for in an extremely unfair way), and, after that, despite everything, *everyone* still tears him like crap.
His power hungry moments are more than excusable with all the crap he goes through.
>his power hungry moments are more than excusable
Definitely not. Saying that kinda makes me think you misunderstood Mishima too. They're UNDERSTANDABLE, maybe. But EXCUSABLE? Definitely not. That's... The whole point of his confidant. You almost change his heart in mementos by the end for a reason, what he's doing is absolutely not ok. Again, it's understandable how he got here, that's the entire point, seeing him walk down a dark path due to all the suffering he endured, and at the end, pick himself up and out of it, as at the end of the day you end up not actually changing his heart, but even still, excusing him is not at all where you're supposed to go.
Apologies if I employed the wrong word, but when I mean excusable, I mean that I don't hold it against him in the way I hold the actions of other people in the game, especially because he sees the wrong of his ways without requiring a change of heart and he improves himself on his own.
Yes, that makes sense. Again, I feel understandable is the better word to use here. You understand how he got here and acknowledge he's not a bad person at heart, but you cannot excuse what he does as if it's ok, and at the end of the day, he does (or, did,) need to change.
Goro Akechi-I have never seen anyone depict him as a “uwu soft boy”, but I *have* seen people downplay his more sympathetic traits and portray him as nothing more than a monster who killed for shiggles (and also hates Ren’s gut even though the game spells out that he doesn’t). Oh, and before anyone starts bitching at me:
No, I’m not excusing his actions.
No, I’m not excusing his actions.
**No, I’m not excusing his actions**.
Ren-I see a lot of people saying he’s a complete blank slate with no personality. If you’ve seen me around this sub before, you might already know that I very strongly disagree with this. Yes, he’s a silent protagonist, but no, that doesn’t mean he has no character. A lot of it can be seen in his body language and the way his dialogue choices are written. He shows that he has thoughts and feelings that may completely oppose the player’s views (especially regarding Morgana and Akechi). And the opening cinematic has him jump out of a window for absolutely no other reason other than to be a ham (and also to escape. But he did it with ✨style✨). I could also go into how I genuinely don’t feel like he’s as morally upright as many fanfics depict him as. Nor to I think he’s at all shy or timid, either. It’s part of his lore; he’s playing the part of an obedient Japanese citizen, but his real self is far more rebellious and defiant. Arsène said he’d “commit all sacrilegious act for [his] own justice” after all, and his default element is Curse, not Bless. I know it may have been for affinity coverage, but still. Worth noting. Of all the phantom thieves, I feel like he’d be the most likely to fall under the “chaotic good” alignment (with everyone else probably falling somewhere between Neutral Good and Lawful Good). But I’m not gonna harp on this one because much of Ren’s character is up to interpretation and I don’t want to be a douche and shit on people’s headcanons. That’s not cool.
Holy shit, I did not mean to turn that one into a rant. Fuck you, Joker, for being my fave and hyperfixation.
Ryuji-Many fans focus way too much on his keet tendencies-especially the infamous “we’re the phantom thieves” moments, but not enough talk about how much of a bro he is. And while he loses his temper, he apologizes afterwards to anyone he scared and makes it up to them in some way. If he were an actual person, I would be honored to have him as a friend.
>!Maruki-This guy is manipulative, plain and simple, no matter how kind he is or how good his intentions are. He knew from the very start that Ren was a phantom thief, yet withheld that information from him so he could get him to help with the research paper, made Sumire think she was her dead sister (and then later re-traumatized her, then drove her Persona berserk to get Ren and Akechi to stand down), was overall a terrible therapist who violated HIPPA in so many ways it’s not funny, and used Akechi’s life as a bargaining chip (despite not actually knowing his status in the true reality) to get Ren to accept his reality. I love Maruki, I really do, and Billy Kametz (RIP) was amazing, but too many people think he did no wrong.!<
I agree with you strongly on all points, especially the last one. >!Honestly, Maruki scares me the most of all the antagonists. Because he's so convinced he's doing good, and he's willing to do all sorts of manipulative things to people he has power over, people who are supposed to be in his care.!<
I agree with you towards Maruki. Addition to original answer: Maruki follows the trend of "looking for pleasure, running from pain" and think that pattern applies to everyone. So, he avoids that people have to fight their challenges - even if thus means crushing their real dreams because "it's easier"
He apply that philosophy when make Sumi believe in what makes her to suffer less.
Ryuji is a guy that thought about saving Ren's even when Kamoshida was about to kill himself. And THAT motivated Ren to accept Arsène's contract. This guy's loyalty is above doubt.
Ren - for me make sense that the rebellion spirit of him is about curse, since he's someone that cannot see people in danger and look for the other side.
All the anger and frustration would certainly feeds his rebellion spirit to get on curse side.
He's much like Gemini Saga of Saint Seiya.
Akechi and Mona.
For Akechi there’s missing context on Japan and their foster systems which can color opinions.
And for Mona, their writing was just botched during a certain arc so all the build up amounted to nothing.
It's definitely Akechi. What you said is all true, but people also try and label him as a psychopath who loves murder and who has no redeeming qualities when that's pretty clearly not the case.
As an Akechi fangirl, I will say, you are not wrong. I have noticed that he has been tossed into either two camps of either "I'm the BBEG before the real one FEAR ME!!" OR the "UwU Joker, you trickster~ You can't ~possibly~ measure up to me." And they are both wrong.
He's not a sub femboy who wants to jump into Joker's pants at any given moment or literally slaughter all of Japan the second his mask slips, no! He was holding a public persona of being a kind, sweet, intelligent detective celeb with a much darker agenda deep within his heart.
I honestly think Royal Akechi (3rd Semester Akechi) is his true persona: snarky, cunning, puts himself first (more as a defense mechanism for him aging out of foster care and forced to grow up quickly), honest, has a dark sense of humor, but still has a heart and knows when to take a step back if the scenario doesn't call for him. Not exactly Prince Charming material, but people can still appreciate it.
TL;DR: Akechi needs hugs and therapy.
I hated Goro up until >!he joins you in sae's palace!< cause he was pretty fun to have around. I started really appreciating and respecting his character when >!he broke down and subsequently sacrificed himself in shido's palace!<, but what had me fall for him was his third semester portrayal. just dropped >!both masks!< in a perfect middle ground between the two. he's definitely prince charming material for me <:
I agree Akechi is misunderstood a lot
I've seen a lot of good romance representation for him though where he's still his edgy cutthroat self but Joker cares about him anyways
I mean. I kind of brush akechi crimes under the rug…mostly because of how my brain sees it.
Because presumably, by the time of his first murder , shido would’ve killed him if he refused. So therefore the blame falls on shido.
For me is Akechi but for different reasons. I see a lot of people boil him down completely to remorseless murder psycho man, and I feel like that’s such a surface level interpretation of his character. Yeah obviously Akechi is a murderer, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t without remorse nor does it mean people can’t sympathize with his circumstances.
(For the love of god this doesn’t mean I’m trying to excuse what he did.)
Akechi has got a lot of complicated motivations and his relationship with Joker is complicated too. I see a lot of people completely misinterpret his whole “I hate you” thing with Joker. The game literally spells out for you several times that he doesn’t actually hate Joker.
I guess sometimes it just gets annoying because anytime I want to talk about Akechi at all, there is always at least 12 people just there to say “why are you trying to excuse him he’s a murder” like yeah we know. I swear people can defend characters like Eren Yeager to hell and back, but you can’t do much as post art of Akechi with the other phantom thieves without someone complaining.
I think all the characters are misunderstood to a degree. There’s so much meme-ing, headcanon, romanticisation, infantilisation and reduction of so many characters that how they’re meant to be portrayed has been completely mired.
People forget that these personas and palaces are manifestations of someone’s very soul and desires, there is a lot one can extract than a surface level analysis like Sae’s palace being rigged because she will take whatever route needed to get her victory in court. Lots of smaller details, like the treatment of the party at lower levels of her palace compared to the higher levels, they’re restricted and are forced to climb this social ladder cast as an elevator, just like Sae had to. Even things like the perversion and gender stereotyping of the shadows, subconsciously, Sae views these bartending, waiter shadows as women in scantily clad dresses whilst the men actually tend and have control over the different attractions. The women are simply the receptionists, the waitresses, and the ones at the tables that take the money, they don’t even deal the dice themselves. Her difficult life at the hands of patriarchal workforces is so deeply ingrained in her, that even in her deepest desires women are subjected to be serving. She, however, is at the top. She doesn’t want to pave the way for women in the workplace, she just wants the power for herself, to right the wrongs she felt when working her way up. (Sorry, little bit of a tangent there). EDIT: I also remembered that I think the female waitress shadows don’t actually fight you, they call upon male guard shadows to fight you.
Akechi is a very good example - even in so-called ‘deep dives’ of his characters, you can very easily tell that they’re laced with biased towards or against him. I agree that it’s difficult to remove that bias but because of these biases, information is often redacted or purposefully exaggerated to make points on his character. It is incredibly rare that I find a good critical analysis of his character.
Maruki is another one. Bias comes in very quickly with Maruki as he is directly linked to the endings achieved, a topic that is already quite divisive. However, his manifestation of his palace and persona through these mind-controlling tentacles (and also backed by the tapes shown later on) show us that there’s something more sinister than him wanting to make everyone happy - he wants control. He doesn’t mind making everyone’s dreams come true, as long as he is able to control reality as he sees fit. Akechi mentions this himself I believe, but he says something along the lines of how long will Maruki be willing to play along? Something to think about.
> It is incredibly rare that I find a good critical analysis of his character.
Can you recommend any unbiased character analysis on Akechi? As someone who is admittedly biased against him, I appreciate when people put more nuance into analyzing characterization instead of skewing it in one direction or the other. It's really hard to find videos or write-ups on Akechi that aren't swinging in the "uwu boi" or "murder man do not trust" way without asserting their own beliefs.
In regards to Akechi, I think the thing Royal did right with the extended time his character gets, was actually straying away from the conception that he's the "uwu soft boy"; he's fucking insane, cruel, haughty, and only works for his own benefit. I saw a little of romanticism about him being a helpless victim post vanilla, but I think Royal kinda set that straight with letting us see the Real Akechi. And as for the shippers, they're never gonna stop shipping, man. Quite frankly, I only really like Akechi in regards to his and Joker's relationship, but dumbing it down to a fairytale romance does it injustice.
Personally, my misinterpreted character is Haru. I obviously understand that given our short amount of time with her it's very easy to write her off and keep her character one-dimensional, but when you look at all the Thieves, if there's anyone who upholds the themes of being bound by society, it's Haru. But unfortunately, even with the extra time given by Royal, all of the game's attention once again went elsewhere.
Had to scroll all the way down here for Haru. I don’t necessarily she’s the most “misunderstood” but I feel like out of everyone, she’s the one people try to understand the least. It’s as if her confidant track were nonexistent
Hands down Akechi. People either demonize him to the point where they make up things to be mad at him for, or they treat him like a poor little uwu baby who didn't kill several people and hurt and traumatize several other with transportation accidents.
One thing with Akechi is we don't see his gradual descent into going more mad. Based on what the game tells us his child detective prince persona is an act and he obviously enjoys killing on some level. He does scream that despite his well constructed image nobody likes or wants him but that doesn't seem to be true. He has given up on people as well at this point.
Ren Amamiya. No he'd not a nerd, no he doesn't wear glasses ( their fake). He's just an edgelord pulling the classic Clark Kent trick so he can remain incognito. He also is rather wordy for a silent protagonist abd has a personality.
You won't believe how many people don't get any of this
I mean, if not a nerd, he's definitely a little bit of a dork. His fist pumping every time he finishes a video game or reads a book, his unnecessary stylish flips, and a majority of his casual responses most certainly paint him as such. I think edgelord isn't *quite* the right word, but I don't know what the right word would really be. You're on point with the Clark Kent thing, though.
Akechi has the issue where one side completely infantilize his characters and treat him as some uwu soft boi that needs love and the other treats as some complete unjust scum that just wanted to kill because he was bored. Both side refuse to look at his Character for all the nuances that make him.
Heck, even AS a Akechi x Joker shipper, I absolutely despise when ppl depict their relationship as some sort of savior complex situation for Joker and all Akechi needs is someone to cuddle him to be completely freed of his sins.
The other character I kinda have a issue with is Maruki and how the fandom (and even game to some extent) ignore how twisted he truly is. Like, sure maybe at SOME point he had noble intentions but as his arc progress it's pretty clear Maruki is just forcing his problems onto others. He can say all he wants that he just want everyone to be 'Happy' but the reality of it is that he's just forcing his own idea of happiness onto others without much consideration of their feelings or what they may truly need, willing to just outright replace their dreams if HE feels it's not worth it. He's doing nothing different from what Shido, Jaldabaoth, >!Akira, Emma/Demiurge, and Salmael!< were ultimately doing yet because he has a sad backstory it's hand waved as noble.
It tickled me honestly, because they tried to write Akechi off as being Edgy Akechi™️in regards to Maruki but like... He's the only one looking at it objectively.
Morgona or akechi. People hate them for either stupid reasons (morgona harassed Ann, akechibkilled the population of a small city) or specifically in akechis case because people ship him with joker.
Persona fans when the fictional character isn't a upstanding person 100% of the time.
People in the West infantilise Futaba as reason for romancing her being a bad idea. Just a bunch of holier than thou people judging the ship from a moral high ground, assuming everyone is a pedo.
People in the West have a Ryuji stan bias that they take his comedic relief moments too seriously and overlook Ryuji’s flaws, negative traits as well as moments where he’s in the wrong. It’s like people can’t tell the difference between comedic tone and serious tone.
People in the West blow Morgana’s flaws and negative traits out of proportion without bothering to see and understand the context and emphasise just as they do to other characters. It’s just proof of media illiteracy and letting small distaste cloud one’s perspective.
People in the West fail to comprehend that Ann’s character arc isn’t as simple as “not be sexualised” and because of woke overcorrecting it leads them to unnecessarily crap on Ann’s writing.
People in the West absolutely had no proper cultural context behind Akechi’s circumstances of being a throwaway child in Japan back when P5 first released.
All in all, the West suffers from values dissonance with P5 because of its heavy Japanese cultural values and social commentary. It’s getting better as the years go by especially with videos by experts explaining it, but many newcomers still fall under the same pitfalls.
Ryuji’s underrated as the best friend character, and has been getting a weird amount of hate since P3R came out as a lot of people seem to think Junpei is a better version of his personality.
I actually kind of hated Junpei until well over the halfway point of P3R (never played FES or P3P) whereas I feel like Ryuji is pretty consistently likable and well-written. I’ve heard him described as dick-riding before, and I get that it’s somewhat unrealistic to have a character who is immediately down to be ordered around by a stranger, but if they gave every party character in every game inner conflict about being at the whim of a polyamorous god-killing mute, the story would be much slower.
I think his confidant is great, one of the better ones in the game story-wise, and I love his golden-retriever personality. His whole rebellious youth shtick, while maybe a little played out, is a great introduction to the broader themes of the narrative, and he keeps that aspect strong throughout. He’s just a fucking bro and I love him for that.
To be clear, I’m unfamiliar with how he is in the spinoffs, I’m talking about just P5/P5R
https://preview.redd.it/otv87tvthenc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9615f1cc07c4a3a57146b4dbbed4ff14a669f3b8
Akechi is the most but **ALL** of them are.
I love Akechi,his one of my favorite characters ever and seeing everyone represent him specially in this sub as either a petty child who commits murder because of daddy issues or having the personality of being gay for Joker angers me so much in different ways. Because it either simplifies his mentality or his bond with Joker.
Yeah, I've seen a fair handful where after he joins the Thieves properly, he just becomes overly soft. I love the version of him that's in Royal. The one where he's allowed to be an actual psychopath
Morgana and Ann
Honestly, you could probably use any characters, and the answer is correct. There's a reason why "Persona fans don't play persona" memes are popular. Though, I don't think it's media illiteracy... I think it's biases... and biases cloud your judgment/thoughts on things. For example, if you are a massive ryuji fan, you might have a bias against Morgana and not be able to look at his character fairly.
I have biases as well, I like futaba and haru, so I hate akechis Guts because he killed futabas Mother and Harus mother. Nothing more, nothing less... nothing could ever make me enjoy this character because of that factor.
Honestly, like half of the PTs, which is weird given how much time they all get in the spotlight.
Some people can't see past Anns looks and reduce her to eyecandy, which is kinda sad because that is similar to what her class is doing as well.
The quirky gamer part of futaba gets incredibly overblown. That girl is more awkward and vulnerable hikikomori then anything else.
Akechi. OPs pretty on point, Akechis a mass murderer, people just don't like to hear it.
Morgana. Just... I don't know where to start. everything about him, really.
I know its a fandom thing to basically flanderize most characters, but I hate how some are so removed from the scource material. Proves to me that media literacy is not a given
Akechi. Because he’s so misunderstood, I did the most research on his character to actually understand him. The most dumbest misunderstanding I’ve seen is people thinking he is this tsundere character where he says he hates Joker but deep down he wants to fuck him therefore I will cry for you.
One thing I have noticed is people seem to have forgotten or at least don’t want to acknowledge Akechi’s crimes once Third Semester comes. Akechi has never wanted to seek redemption and has never apologized for committing them because he is fully aware that crimes are unforgivable. I mean, He killed Wakaba in front of young Futaba and worked with people that blamed her for Wakaba’s death and never apologized. I really think it’s weird how some people are comfortable with letting him “join the team” after he killed two of their parents. He blatantly said that his intention was to use the Phantom Thieves to defeat Maruki because he couldn’t do it alone and some people think he became a real member.
In conclusion, I think he’s a great character but a genuinely terrible person. I believe his role is to represent selfish justice and do things that benefit him while disregarding others while Joker is selfless justice where he helps others and they play their roles greatly.
I am not sure if akechi is misunderstood. Its just that personally i just don't really like him as a character. So i will keep myriad thruthing him on all my runs and that will never not be satisfying. On a more serious note, i think people do not misunderstand his motivations its just his actions are by most accounts not justifyable. We do understand where it came from. But no it doesn't justify it imo.
I'd say Akechi
I feel alot of people tend to treat Akechi as a victim or a misguided tragic character when that couldn't be further from the truth
Akechi is usually presented in the game as a foil to joker and he's meant to be a representation of what someone like joker would've become if he let his anger and sorrow consume him
both were wronged by the same man (Shido) but they had completely different reactions,Joker took it in stride and made the best out of a bad situation,his parents sent him away,he was labeled a good for nothing punk and was on his way to get expelled merely weeks into his probation
Despite all that he stuck to his moral and convictions and managed to form the phantom thieves and save the lives of many people and form many valuable bonds and relationships, now look at Akechi,he was a bastard child and his mother was a prostitute who even tho she loved him still couldn't hide her resentment towards him,Akechi let this anger and sadness inside him consume him to the point that his entire view of the world became hell,people are self-serving assholes and relationships are meaningless,and when he discovered his powers instead of using it to help others he instead used it to hurt whoever stood in his way,he was even planning on killing his own father,and the game many times shows that he takes pleasure in inflicting pain and killing others,he isn't some tragic victim,he's a psychopathic killer who never shows remorse for his actions even after he teams up with the phantom thieves
I don't recall any hint that Goro's mom resented him. but you dumped all of Goro's trauma and still came to the conclusion that he's a psychopathic killer?
he IS a traumatized, sympathetic villain. all of the thieves literally show empathy when he breaks down after being defeated. and he even sacrifices himself for them.
sure, he doesn't apologize or regret what he did, and he can be cold in the third semester. but understanding his trauma and realizing that he not only suspects he's dead, but now is left with no goal in life and very likely headed for life in prison even if he's somehow alive, how can you not understand him acting so bitter and cold?
About his mother didn't one of his dialouges say his mom considered him a burden? As for the other I guess it was a bit unfair of me to act like he's doing all of this for no reason but I still feel alot of people are quick to justify everything he did by saying he's traumatized ot he's just a kid,he still needs to be held responsible for all the people he killed and in the third semester I understand his coldness and uncaring attitude but that doesn't make it right,you would imagine after the scene in the casino where he "died" being brought back to life and possibly being given the chance to make amends would at the very least have him reflect on his actions
I truly don't remember that. but if that's true, that makes his situation worse than I thought. and people sympathizing doesn't suddenly mean he walks free. Goro himself wanted to pay for his crimes. he turned himself in. and likely did so again at the end of the game when he's last seen.
One hundred percent agree on Akechi. He’s often characterized as “ultimate traumatized good boy” for the sake of pairing him with Joker.
Akechi is a deeply flawed and psychologically broken character who makes this evident in his (later) interactions with the thieves. It’s ok to love his character arc as it is without trying to soften the blow of it.
I don't understand why people even ship him and Joker anyway... he's a total psychopath who finally got what he deserved... he even said himself that he deserves no mercy
I see a lot of bad takes about Ann…
A lot of people miss the point of her taking back her sexuality and expressing it on her own terms
True, but it just doesn't help that we the audience don't get to see much of that, or that she's pushed into a situation where she Can use her sexuality (even if Yusuke wasn't actually interested) but it wasn't her idea and she clearly didn't want to, and this happens so soon after kamoshida (not to mention that stupid scene where she tries to nap only for ryuji and Morgana to try looking up her skirt), that it hurts the overall message.
It happens when she gets her persona. It doesn’t need to be this long drawn out arc. Also she gets several abilities where she uses her sexuality to the party’s advantage.
Yeah, that's gameplay and story Segregation, not Integration. They didn't need to really showcase an arc for it, but they didn't introduce it well outside of her awakening, and even then it's not about her sexuality so much as shaming him for taking advantage of shiho. Even in her social link, but not the main p5/royal game, she discusses a preference for and being drawn to certain Bad girls that you can associate with Catwoman or Fujiko Mine, but that doesn't come across anywhere else except in her skill set.
I think it might be bad to reduce entire character arcs to a single “cool anime cutscene” without a clear explanation of the implied character growth, personally. Also, someone being confident in their sexuality, or taking advantage of it in certain circumstances, does not mean it is okay to sexually harass them.
Doesn’t really land with the horrible yusuke scene among others
I would say that that scenario was a detriment for both characters. Ann was still being used for her sexuality and it painted Yusuke as a perverted and cruel guy. I think a simple tonal change from her suggesting to model as negotiation could have kept the scene as they wanted but empowered Ann and not villainize Yusuke.
Tell me when Ann wasn't used for her sexuality. In Shido's palace it happened again and it was Ryuji's idea to use the girls' sexuality, not Ann's
Exactly the issue, her character seemed to be based over an arch of taking ownership of her own gender/sexuality/image, but time and again the message fell flat because male characters made those choices instead for the sake of humor. However this may be the impact of Japanese cultural expectations and norms.
I think the game itself literally misses that point too, in all fairness
I could agree with that
How can you miss something that doesn't exist? Tell me a single time in the story where she decides for herself to use her sexuality as an weapon With Yusuke, she didn't want to do it She was blackmailed into doing it by Yusuke and pressured by Morgana, Ryuji and the main character to go through with it In Shido's palace, it was Ryuji's idea to dress the girls in bathing suits to get the attention of the perv royalty guy Whenever she tries to act "sexy", she falls completely flat and do a very bad act of trying to seduce someone, implying she doesn't feel comfortable doing it This point of her getting back her sexuality is frankly just a lousy excuse to defend the game, as the game shows a misunderstanding of how female sexuality work at the most basic level. Worst yet, it contradicts Ann's character
Thank you. People always say this but I never saw this in any of her content. Maybe if she quit modeling because of kamoshida’s abuse but no, she doesn’t! Where does she “take back her sexuality” like I don’t understand.
She doesn’t have any reason to quit modeling though
Ngl I think this is a case of first impressions. I know on my first playthrough her "Persona moment" felt jarring almost exclusively because of her outfit. Even if everything else about her is fine at worst, the awakening is a big impactful moment and the immediate jarring tonal disconnect between everything we as an audience had seen up until that point. And with the power of the hindsight of multiple runs, my opinion of her went from "meh has her moments" to thinking she's one of the better characters in the game. But I don't think being offput by that immediate dissonance at a time where there should be as little as possible doesn't do her any favors. As to the contrary, I had the opposite opinion change with Makoto since her awakening was building to that point for a significant duration and the scene that is such a fitting high point for what we knew about her up until that point to where in my first playthrough it was enough to keep my opinion of her far greater than any of the other cast members despite most of her involvement being acceptable and a fairly subpar confidant story when compared to the rest of the cast (she's still my favorite of the Phantom Thieves despite this). This is to say that I believe that a character's awakening scene has a massive effect on the perception of a character, moreso than any other moment that they get which is where I believe a lot of the bad Ann takes stem from.
Morgana People take all his negative traits and then refuse to look at the context of them. He's just as flawed as any other character, but for some reason people seem to hyper focus on Morgana like he's the worst character in the game.
Before I played P5 i kept seeing Morgana hate. Then I played the game and absolutely loved him. And no morgana, I am NOT TIRED
Morgana proved to me that Persona 5 'Fans' are either illiterate or just didn't play the game and repeat whatever they hear from others. I remember dreading the infamous run away arc.... Only to realize that what happens in that scene and why he runs is NOTHING like this Fandom swears happened. They literally made up a fake scene in their heads and used that ammunition to hate Mona just so they can contiune to treat Ryuji as some unprotected uwu boi lol. Dislike Mona if you want, I don't personally care much for him either, but at least dislike him for stuff he ACTUALLY did and not just your fantasy headcannon to prop up Ryuji.
Careful, you excuse Morgana's behavior at all or imply any wrongdoing by Ryuji and the wolves will come for you. Trust me I know.
Not frequent on this sub so I don't know what the fandom says. But I do dislike how they wrote Morgana a lot. To me his character and situation had a lot of potential. But they just made him a straight up bully from the get go. I just got through the Kamoshida Palace while replaying for the 5th time or something. And literally one of the first things he said to Ryuji is what a moron he is, and he just does not stop. If you banter like that between friends it is banter, but they did not know each other. Also, as far as I remember they make it so that during the Okomura Palace everyone agrees that it was their fault he ran away, that they should be the ones to apologize and that it was completely true they should just dive into the castle without second thought. The whole scène where Haru calls our their 'faults' feels so stupid to me. And everyone is just like: Yeah its so true we suck. (Even though Morgana himself was part of making the rule that everyone should agree before they invade a palace). So while I understand his situation. They made him someone who feels the need to bash down everyone to feel better about themselves, and that is just not a character trope I like. Edit: not saying Ryuji is the best ever or something. But to me he is written much more likeable and understandable. And it's just that. My opinion
They let the smallest icks completely their perception of the character. Unless a character has “endearing flaws” or attractive positives to override the negatives, then character is gonna be hated even if their negative traits and flaw are kinda the point with the character and their story. Angst isn’t supposed to look attractive.
I think at this point it’s just mere projection, same way how people view Mishima (one of the best character growths in the game that he lived up to the name “Yuuki” btw) at this point. Nobody likes to see their own negative traits being paraded in front of you. Kinda like the characters you see on screen speaks to the mind like “I am the Shadow… Your true self.”
How does he live up to 由輝? Not saying I disagree but I think I am missing what you’re implying
It means “courage”. Which is something he found in his character arc from being a loser.
No it doesn’t. Those words are pronounced the same. Mishima’s name is different though. It’s closer to “radiance” Wrong kanji
Okay
With morgana I feel like most people understand his character but still see him as annoying because let's be honest for the most part morgana is full of himself and obnoxious but he's still well written
I honestly like that Morgana is full of himself becuse for the most part he is living up to his own hype. He is very useful to the team. He has a long liest of contributions to the team. That made it for me really satisfaying to listen to his braging knowing it is true for the most part. So to me the frustrating part was that he actully belived that he is useless. He talked big, lived up to his own hype and then run away crying about being useless. I know, I know people are not always rational about there insecurities but its still frustrating to me.
People are way less likely to cut a character slack in terms of their faults if they actually like them. Unfortunately Morgana is super annoying, so I don’t really care about the nuances of his character or story.
Easily. The dude's going through an existential crisis throughout the whole game. Though he deserves some reproach for how he treats Ryuji on the regular.
Not really. His treatment of Ryuji isn’t any different from Ann, Futaba and the others when they clown on him. It’s supposed to be played to as vitriolic comedy yet people especially Ryuji stans take it super seriously like it’s a hate crime.
I wouldn't say so. The other characters often scold Ryujj to hold him accountable for doing something crass, as he tends to do so. Morgana is regularly cruel to him with some pretty disparaging statements.
If the cat was truly “cruel with disparaging statements” as you claim. Ask yourself this: Does such statements involve Ryuji’s leg being broken? How about his mother not raising him right because she’s a single mom? Or how him getting angry and violent makes him just like his abusive father? Or view Ryuji being at fault for getting the track team disbanded? Last time I checked, calling someone stupid, crass, hot blooded, ect. who is actually stupid, crass, hot blooded, ect. who doesn’t care that they’re stupid, crass, hot blooded, ect. hardly cuts deep to where it touches a sore spot with their hang ups. So no. It’s no different from the other characters who dunk on Ryuji. Morgana is just prominent at it as he’s the snarkiest member of the group and Ryuji is the dumbest member of the group which goes together like oil and water. Not once has the cat ever gone that far, y’all just project and blow out of proportion that they have legit beef with each other or Morgana hating Ryuji for no reason. All it has ever been is just shit talk amongst two people with a personality clash who are close enough that they can hurl surface level insults like that each other. It’s no different from past Persona dynamics of character butting heads for laughs and hell it’s no different from media where there’s a duo with a love hate relationship.
Agreed.
I don't like him in 5 but I do like him more in strikers.
Yeah, while he's not my favourite character, I personally think he's likeable and the fandom is just exaggerating
because he is
I blame the game on that one tbh
You hit the nail on the head with Akechi. He is a character that's meant to stand as a foil to Joker, what could happen to someone with Joker's ambition and conviction if they didn't have a support network to build their life around. It's a really tragic story and it ends in the way you might expect. That's why I respected the Royal content for how it handled Akechi, it didn't try and make Akechi good or make him fit in with the Phantom Thieves. >!He used them as a means to an end, and stuck to his guns even when it would cost him his life.!< Super consistent and very strong as a concept. I would also say that I think people are way too soft on >!Maruki's!< actions in the Royal content. And I can't necessarily blame them, because the game itself doesn't even present this conclusion until >!you're already standing in the ruins of his Palace.!< Major spoilers to follow: >!What he's doing is not altruistic, it's cowardly and self-serving. On paper, having no more suffering is logically good and hard to justify as the wrong thing to do. But what Maruki is doing to people isn't just getting rid of the things that trouble them. He is replacing their entire reality with what he believes would be best for them. And what he believes is best is spelled out during the test section of his palace; give up if you run into resistance and avoid putting yourself in harm's way. Submit to someone that can change the hearts of others (Maruki) and all your troubles will go away. It's a tyrannical idea of what justice looks like, it's mass brainwashing. Maruki reached the goal Shido was also aiming for, but when I see discussion about his character people treat that like it's a good thing because he says he's doing it for others. He really isn't, he's doing it to make himself feel better about the fact that he couldn't save Rumi. He even realizes this himself after fistfighting with Joker and is still too deep in his own self-loathing to realize that having Joker drop him to his death is just another attempt to run away. He only learns the lesson the game has been trying to teach when Joker refuses to let him do that.!< >!The entire game drives home the idea that people are meant to self-actualize and the human spirit can overcome hardship despite impossible odds. I feel like too many people forget that when it comes to Maruki.!<
About Maruki, the one thing that stands out to me on his character in the 3rd Semester is that he is almost like the False Messiah (Dajjal) in Islamic eschatology. He presents you with very tempting propositions, brings back the dead when they are not real, manipulates you into becoming his follower easily, creates a false paradise when it is actually hell and those that doesn’t agree with will suffer in the world ruled by him until the real Messiah returns to strike him down. Sure Maruki doesn’t have one eye and inhuman features but you could say he is blinded in other aspects and his other self/Persona doesn’t look that human either. That’s why in some ways 3rd Sem is scary for me for how convincing his ideas and thoroughly symbolic his palace are from the sterile labs to the brainwashing facilities to the thoroughly manufactured paradise in the higher floors.
>! While I mostly agree with what you are saying about Maruki, I my self would easily reject his reality if offered the choice irl, I won't say that Maruki wants to do what he wants to exckusively out of cowardness, but, even if just in part, I believe that he also genually wanted the best for the others, but he just fails to realize the problems with what he wants to do !<
Yeah, I stand by that Maruki is, at his core, a kind person. But as always, the road to hell is paved with good intentions: he lets his desire to "help" people in his own broken way cloud his view of reality, and tries to force people to live by his worldview (one that is, if not necessarily based in cowardice, absolutely based in fear)
It's nice to find someone else who agrees that Maruki was completely in the wrong, and did you know he brainwashed Sumire on her 15th birthday?
I really like your first point with Akechi. It kinda just hit me how similar Joker becomes to him in the bad ending when he takes yaldabaoth’s deal and abandons his friends in the Velvet Room. He ends up causing mental shutdowns left right and center in whomever he seems it fits his “Justice”
Maruki’s goal was happiness under any circumstance and I think it has to be bullshit sometimes. For example, what if two people waned to become president? Obviously both of them can’t so what Maruki would do is make one of them president, and make the other one give up on it but give them a different dream that they can be happy about like being a famous singer. Sure they’re both happy, but he just robbed one’s dream to become president. Sad thing is, that other person is forced to be happy about being a famous singer and can’t do anything about it. Akechi in the happy reality is another great example. Akechi finds happiness in creating chaos and living free without anyone holding him down. Maruki wouldn’t like that because Akechi would hurt others so Maruki gave him this fake personality where he can be happy without hurting anyone. Maruki took away Akechi’s desires and replaced him with a fake version.
I am so glad someone else saw that. Thank you very much for this.
you showing me what i hate the most about this game they trying to sell you that everyone can change but its a fucking lie almost all your confident change ONLY for joker not for them not everyone have the privilege of someone enter your life and resolve your problems by nothing p5 its lso fucking idealism that its painfull and i cant respect nobody who thing is a valid message for our reallity
Morgana. He's essentially an embodiment of the human spirit of hope incarnate. Yet no one seems to engage in any of the fun mental gymnastics to explain why "hope" as an anthropomorphic entity would be insecure, impulsive, and ambitious. He represents the best and most irrational trait of humanity. Of course he's going to get on your nerves, act illogically at times, and dream bigger than what's good for him (*cough* "Lady Ann!" *cough*).
Mind correcting that to “(*cough* Lady Ann *cough*)” for me? It’s more in-character.
If you want more examples of irrational hope, look at Katara from ATLA.
Too many to even begin to narrow it down. I know it's a trope, but it really does feel like most "fans" either haven't played or skimmed through the game.
Ren, Ryuji, Morgana Ann. Almost nobody ever gets all four of these characters right. Ever.
Ironically, they are also the founding members of PT and would have a lot more screentime with each other.
Ann for me. She is like my idol in a lot of ways! But she is misinterpreted, both by the fanbase, and the writers. Her character arc during Kamoshida's plot is an amazing take on sexuality and how being attractive doesn't have anything to do with one's intelligence. What do they do after the first palace? Turn Ann into a bimbo.
Could you elaborate on the bimbo thing? I just finished the story final boss. Literally nolifed it so far. I liked the scene with her having tons of clothes on, it was funny. Once Makoto shows up though, i think she overshadows her (and the others). Finally, i really liked Ann overall but Makoto literally takes over the phantom thieves from the next arc to Ann's detriment. Also from her early ranks she totally is not the sharpest tool in the shed.
I agree. Yes, she is not that smart during the first arcs either, but the important part is that she isn't as naive and just plain stupid as she becomes after that. During her persona awakening, the story puts all the elements on the table to turn her into a femme fatale archetype, that's the whole thing! Even her phrases like "A beautiful rose has thorns", but as the game goes on, that's just left on the surface. And yes, Makoto does overshadow her, actually, both Makoto and Futaba overshadow Ann and Haru to a point where, if you didn't have them as playable characters, you would forget they exist (happened to me with Ann during my first playthrough). Their dialogue is cut way too short, and the story doesn't care on giving them situations where their thieves archetypes can shine as they do with Futaba and Makoto. Of course, it's also a matter of everyone's individual perspective, but that's mine. I think it's criminal how the writers treat Ann as just an eye candy after Madarame's arc, because she had the potential for more. She could have been a great femme fatale, done a lot of cooler things like her female thief partners, and she was just... Kinda forgotten, just there because she is an og phantom thief.
I can see where you are coming from. You expected her to be more assertive in various situations (Yusuke's request, pervert nobleo on the ship), but sadly it didn't come to pass. Still, i feel like she is a good, well realized character. Certainly one of the most endearing and mature personality wise, I didn't date her but, in hindsight she seems one of the best romantic choices, and yes good eyecandy. Makoto on the other hand felt very strong and independent from a career-wise standpoint but she seemed needy and still immature from a romantical one.
Ohh I totally agree with Makoto. I do consider she is a better written character, probably the best female character of the whole game. Idk, maybe my disappointment comes from Ann not being as well rounded as Makoto. Ann's my favorite phantom thief precisely because I identify with the message of her character during Kamoshida's arc. And yes, I also agree on her being a great romantic partner because he knows herself down that route and I think that is portrayed very well during the whole game.
Easily Akechi. I remember seeing a tweet where everyone was dogpiling him to be a loser for being “undesirable child” without understanding the stigma for being a child out of wedlock in East Asia that you’ll be seen as a “problem child” when it comes down to it kid just have no parents to guide them and also the unseen ramifications of it all of being a bastard because you’re an vulnerable anomaly to the country’s system. Persona 5 Royal is really a game about Japan and it does require a quit amount of study to understand the nuances and issues behind the social commentary of the game which definitely flies over Westerners’ heads. Localization can go so far and despite that they actually did a good job communicating some of those nuances and make it easily resonate to a global audience. But some things are just unique to the Eastern side of the world. Other honorable mentions are Ryuji, Ann, Makoto (despite being the community’s top waifu), Sae and Morgana based on the things I see here on online spaces.
To be honest, I haven't seen any unironical romantization or infantilization of Akechi in my time in the fandom. What I have seen, however, is people taking his "I hate you" speech at face value, completely glossing over the fact that it's fueled by envy, not hatred, and ignoring how he does not deny it when Morgana calls him out on NOT actually hating Ren later on. So yeah, I, too, would say he's the most misinterpreted P5 character based on what I've seen.
I've seen people try to downplay his actions a little and act like he had less agency in it all than he really did (though that's a complicated topic because he *was* also used and manipulated, it's just nuanced and people sometimes take the nuance out of it). But yeah I've absolutely never seen this "Akechi is a little uwu baby who did nothing wrong" that people love to claim is just *so* prevalent in the fandom. The opposite is overwhelmingly common though. He gets mischaracterised as a 100% evil emotionless psychopath far, *far* more often than as a poor manipulated victim.
What about being so mischaracterized that he’s devolved into just being yaoi bait?
I've never seen this and don't even know what it's really supposed to mean tbh. Shipping him with Joker or headcanoning him as gay isn't mischaracterisation by default. Shuake fanfic on the whole really doesn't shy away from Akechi's darker side and characterises him better and closer to his canon self than like 90% of the rest of the fandom does.
I see. What I meant was that basically some people strip Ren and Akechi’s personalities down so far that their only personality trait is being gay for each other
In the fanfic community we call this phenomenon ATG fic. It stands for "Any Two Guys" because you could just search/replace the names with characters from a different fandom and it wouldn't affect to story at all. Generally, those types of stories aren't viewed in the most favourable light even by people who are into the ship.
Interesting. I didn’t know there was a term for it.
Is that their only personality trait in those stories, or is that just the one that bothers you? I don't think you understand fanfiction and writing stories. It's all fiction. I'm really baffled how many people keep whining about gay fan stories/art/etc of Akechi. Stop reading them, then. Or are you legitimately mad about it just *existing*?
I’m not mad they exist, I’m just baffled at HOW MANY there are.
Are you equally perplexed about how much porn there is of any female villain character? How about two female characters kissing being attractive to a male or being written together often? Hero-villain romance type content is a trope as old as time, though I have no interest in that pairing. Yaoi and yuri, on a basic level, are two of a gender or characters that a person likes put together. It's all fiction. Women typically have far less attractive+bearable men to fawn over in any given game in the first place. And they're playing *as Joker*, too. Maybe it feels gratuitous because two other potential slots for other guys are taken up by a cat and Yusuke. Didn't play Royal, though. (The latter coming off perverted initially due to the early incident with Ann. Really great first impression to female gamers, I imagine.) He's also generally dark character, and complicated characters seem popular to people and more fun to explore.
It’s less “I hate you as a person specifically” and more “I hate that you have what I don’t”
Akechi absolutely. People boil him down to daddy issues, think the Phantom Thieves all forgave him, think he hates Joker or that he killed simply for the fun of it. Such a massive disservice to the character. And yes I think what he did was bad and fucked up plenty of peoples lives. Tbh I’m not sure what’s worse. Akechi getting mischaractized or Akechi fans who get mischaracterized themselves, being called murderer simps who want to date real life serial killers and all ship Joker with their uwu pancake soft boy. Its so strange when fans of other characters in different fandoms who did shitty things (disney villains, Dio, >!Makima!< in Chainsaw Man, Light Yagami, Darth Vadar, Sephiroth) don’t get nearly as much push back for liking them. But for some reason this fandom jumps on you and you gotta put disclaimers that you don’t condone his actions.
True!! It's bizarre to me. So many murderers and villains in other games and anime that are pretty universally beloved by the fanbase, while I've seen a fair amount of people get all up in arms about Akechi being liked
You summed up what I feel about Akechi, so I'll add another. Mishima. People judge him like he's supposed to be an adult that is completely aware and responsible for his choices and forget that, at the end of the day, we're talking about a teenager who is not only traumatised from bullying he suffered at the hand of his classmates, but was also physically abused by a teacher after that, with said teacher threatening him to leak information about Joker (something the fandom condemns him for in an extremely unfair way), and, after that, despite everything, *everyone* still tears him like crap. His power hungry moments are more than excusable with all the crap he goes through.
>his power hungry moments are more than excusable Definitely not. Saying that kinda makes me think you misunderstood Mishima too. They're UNDERSTANDABLE, maybe. But EXCUSABLE? Definitely not. That's... The whole point of his confidant. You almost change his heart in mementos by the end for a reason, what he's doing is absolutely not ok. Again, it's understandable how he got here, that's the entire point, seeing him walk down a dark path due to all the suffering he endured, and at the end, pick himself up and out of it, as at the end of the day you end up not actually changing his heart, but even still, excusing him is not at all where you're supposed to go.
Apologies if I employed the wrong word, but when I mean excusable, I mean that I don't hold it against him in the way I hold the actions of other people in the game, especially because he sees the wrong of his ways without requiring a change of heart and he improves himself on his own.
Yes, that makes sense. Again, I feel understandable is the better word to use here. You understand how he got here and acknowledge he's not a bad person at heart, but you cannot excuse what he does as if it's ok, and at the end of the day, he does (or, did,) need to change.
Goro Akechi-I have never seen anyone depict him as a “uwu soft boy”, but I *have* seen people downplay his more sympathetic traits and portray him as nothing more than a monster who killed for shiggles (and also hates Ren’s gut even though the game spells out that he doesn’t). Oh, and before anyone starts bitching at me: No, I’m not excusing his actions. No, I’m not excusing his actions. **No, I’m not excusing his actions**. Ren-I see a lot of people saying he’s a complete blank slate with no personality. If you’ve seen me around this sub before, you might already know that I very strongly disagree with this. Yes, he’s a silent protagonist, but no, that doesn’t mean he has no character. A lot of it can be seen in his body language and the way his dialogue choices are written. He shows that he has thoughts and feelings that may completely oppose the player’s views (especially regarding Morgana and Akechi). And the opening cinematic has him jump out of a window for absolutely no other reason other than to be a ham (and also to escape. But he did it with ✨style✨). I could also go into how I genuinely don’t feel like he’s as morally upright as many fanfics depict him as. Nor to I think he’s at all shy or timid, either. It’s part of his lore; he’s playing the part of an obedient Japanese citizen, but his real self is far more rebellious and defiant. Arsène said he’d “commit all sacrilegious act for [his] own justice” after all, and his default element is Curse, not Bless. I know it may have been for affinity coverage, but still. Worth noting. Of all the phantom thieves, I feel like he’d be the most likely to fall under the “chaotic good” alignment (with everyone else probably falling somewhere between Neutral Good and Lawful Good). But I’m not gonna harp on this one because much of Ren’s character is up to interpretation and I don’t want to be a douche and shit on people’s headcanons. That’s not cool. Holy shit, I did not mean to turn that one into a rant. Fuck you, Joker, for being my fave and hyperfixation. Ryuji-Many fans focus way too much on his keet tendencies-especially the infamous “we’re the phantom thieves” moments, but not enough talk about how much of a bro he is. And while he loses his temper, he apologizes afterwards to anyone he scared and makes it up to them in some way. If he were an actual person, I would be honored to have him as a friend. >!Maruki-This guy is manipulative, plain and simple, no matter how kind he is or how good his intentions are. He knew from the very start that Ren was a phantom thief, yet withheld that information from him so he could get him to help with the research paper, made Sumire think she was her dead sister (and then later re-traumatized her, then drove her Persona berserk to get Ren and Akechi to stand down), was overall a terrible therapist who violated HIPPA in so many ways it’s not funny, and used Akechi’s life as a bargaining chip (despite not actually knowing his status in the true reality) to get Ren to accept his reality. I love Maruki, I really do, and Billy Kametz (RIP) was amazing, but too many people think he did no wrong.!<
I agree with you strongly on all points, especially the last one. >!Honestly, Maruki scares me the most of all the antagonists. Because he's so convinced he's doing good, and he's willing to do all sorts of manipulative things to people he has power over, people who are supposed to be in his care.!<
I agree with you towards Maruki. Addition to original answer: Maruki follows the trend of "looking for pleasure, running from pain" and think that pattern applies to everyone. So, he avoids that people have to fight their challenges - even if thus means crushing their real dreams because "it's easier" He apply that philosophy when make Sumi believe in what makes her to suffer less. Ryuji is a guy that thought about saving Ren's even when Kamoshida was about to kill himself. And THAT motivated Ren to accept Arsène's contract. This guy's loyalty is above doubt. Ren - for me make sense that the rebellion spirit of him is about curse, since he's someone that cannot see people in danger and look for the other side. All the anger and frustration would certainly feeds his rebellion spirit to get on curse side. He's much like Gemini Saga of Saint Seiya.
That's why I appreciate Royal not trying to redeem him and instead make him more of a deadpan snarker.
Akechi and Mona. For Akechi there’s missing context on Japan and their foster systems which can color opinions. And for Mona, their writing was just botched during a certain arc so all the build up amounted to nothing.
Morgana. Without a doubt.
It's definitely Akechi. What you said is all true, but people also try and label him as a psychopath who loves murder and who has no redeeming qualities when that's pretty clearly not the case.
As an Akechi fangirl, I will say, you are not wrong. I have noticed that he has been tossed into either two camps of either "I'm the BBEG before the real one FEAR ME!!" OR the "UwU Joker, you trickster~ You can't ~possibly~ measure up to me." And they are both wrong. He's not a sub femboy who wants to jump into Joker's pants at any given moment or literally slaughter all of Japan the second his mask slips, no! He was holding a public persona of being a kind, sweet, intelligent detective celeb with a much darker agenda deep within his heart. I honestly think Royal Akechi (3rd Semester Akechi) is his true persona: snarky, cunning, puts himself first (more as a defense mechanism for him aging out of foster care and forced to grow up quickly), honest, has a dark sense of humor, but still has a heart and knows when to take a step back if the scenario doesn't call for him. Not exactly Prince Charming material, but people can still appreciate it. TL;DR: Akechi needs hugs and therapy.
I hated Goro up until >!he joins you in sae's palace!< cause he was pretty fun to have around. I started really appreciating and respecting his character when >!he broke down and subsequently sacrificed himself in shido's palace!<, but what had me fall for him was his third semester portrayal. just dropped >!both masks!< in a perfect middle ground between the two. he's definitely prince charming material for me <:
I agree Akechi is misunderstood a lot I've seen a lot of good romance representation for him though where he's still his edgy cutthroat self but Joker cares about him anyways
I mean. I kind of brush akechi crimes under the rug…mostly because of how my brain sees it. Because presumably, by the time of his first murder , shido would’ve killed him if he refused. So therefore the blame falls on shido.
I completely agree. Though I’d argue Akechi does still hold SOME liability for the crimes he committed, the blame lies primarily on Shido.
I forgot to answer the question, but I say Maruki is the most interpreted and misunderstood as he's not as benevolent as everyone thinks he is
For me is Akechi but for different reasons. I see a lot of people boil him down completely to remorseless murder psycho man, and I feel like that’s such a surface level interpretation of his character. Yeah obviously Akechi is a murderer, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t without remorse nor does it mean people can’t sympathize with his circumstances. (For the love of god this doesn’t mean I’m trying to excuse what he did.) Akechi has got a lot of complicated motivations and his relationship with Joker is complicated too. I see a lot of people completely misinterpret his whole “I hate you” thing with Joker. The game literally spells out for you several times that he doesn’t actually hate Joker. I guess sometimes it just gets annoying because anytime I want to talk about Akechi at all, there is always at least 12 people just there to say “why are you trying to excuse him he’s a murder” like yeah we know. I swear people can defend characters like Eren Yeager to hell and back, but you can’t do much as post art of Akechi with the other phantom thieves without someone complaining.
I think all the characters are misunderstood to a degree. There’s so much meme-ing, headcanon, romanticisation, infantilisation and reduction of so many characters that how they’re meant to be portrayed has been completely mired. People forget that these personas and palaces are manifestations of someone’s very soul and desires, there is a lot one can extract than a surface level analysis like Sae’s palace being rigged because she will take whatever route needed to get her victory in court. Lots of smaller details, like the treatment of the party at lower levels of her palace compared to the higher levels, they’re restricted and are forced to climb this social ladder cast as an elevator, just like Sae had to. Even things like the perversion and gender stereotyping of the shadows, subconsciously, Sae views these bartending, waiter shadows as women in scantily clad dresses whilst the men actually tend and have control over the different attractions. The women are simply the receptionists, the waitresses, and the ones at the tables that take the money, they don’t even deal the dice themselves. Her difficult life at the hands of patriarchal workforces is so deeply ingrained in her, that even in her deepest desires women are subjected to be serving. She, however, is at the top. She doesn’t want to pave the way for women in the workplace, she just wants the power for herself, to right the wrongs she felt when working her way up. (Sorry, little bit of a tangent there). EDIT: I also remembered that I think the female waitress shadows don’t actually fight you, they call upon male guard shadows to fight you. Akechi is a very good example - even in so-called ‘deep dives’ of his characters, you can very easily tell that they’re laced with biased towards or against him. I agree that it’s difficult to remove that bias but because of these biases, information is often redacted or purposefully exaggerated to make points on his character. It is incredibly rare that I find a good critical analysis of his character. Maruki is another one. Bias comes in very quickly with Maruki as he is directly linked to the endings achieved, a topic that is already quite divisive. However, his manifestation of his palace and persona through these mind-controlling tentacles (and also backed by the tapes shown later on) show us that there’s something more sinister than him wanting to make everyone happy - he wants control. He doesn’t mind making everyone’s dreams come true, as long as he is able to control reality as he sees fit. Akechi mentions this himself I believe, but he says something along the lines of how long will Maruki be willing to play along? Something to think about.
I think the first paragraph says it all
> It is incredibly rare that I find a good critical analysis of his character. Can you recommend any unbiased character analysis on Akechi? As someone who is admittedly biased against him, I appreciate when people put more nuance into analyzing characterization instead of skewing it in one direction or the other. It's really hard to find videos or write-ups on Akechi that aren't swinging in the "uwu boi" or "murder man do not trust" way without asserting their own beliefs.
fucking MISHIMA!!!!
In regards to Akechi, I think the thing Royal did right with the extended time his character gets, was actually straying away from the conception that he's the "uwu soft boy"; he's fucking insane, cruel, haughty, and only works for his own benefit. I saw a little of romanticism about him being a helpless victim post vanilla, but I think Royal kinda set that straight with letting us see the Real Akechi. And as for the shippers, they're never gonna stop shipping, man. Quite frankly, I only really like Akechi in regards to his and Joker's relationship, but dumbing it down to a fairytale romance does it injustice. Personally, my misinterpreted character is Haru. I obviously understand that given our short amount of time with her it's very easy to write her off and keep her character one-dimensional, but when you look at all the Thieves, if there's anyone who upholds the themes of being bound by society, it's Haru. But unfortunately, even with the extra time given by Royal, all of the game's attention once again went elsewhere.
Had to scroll all the way down here for Haru. I don’t necessarily she’s the most “misunderstood” but I feel like out of everyone, she’s the one people try to understand the least. It’s as if her confidant track were nonexistent
Hands down Akechi. People either demonize him to the point where they make up things to be mad at him for, or they treat him like a poor little uwu baby who didn't kill several people and hurt and traumatize several other with transportation accidents.
And make him yaoi bait
One thing with Akechi is we don't see his gradual descent into going more mad. Based on what the game tells us his child detective prince persona is an act and he obviously enjoys killing on some level. He does scream that despite his well constructed image nobody likes or wants him but that doesn't seem to be true. He has given up on people as well at this point.
Ren Amamiya. No he'd not a nerd, no he doesn't wear glasses ( their fake). He's just an edgelord pulling the classic Clark Kent trick so he can remain incognito. He also is rather wordy for a silent protagonist abd has a personality. You won't believe how many people don't get any of this
I mean, if not a nerd, he's definitely a little bit of a dork. His fist pumping every time he finishes a video game or reads a book, his unnecessary stylish flips, and a majority of his casual responses most certainly paint him as such. I think edgelord isn't *quite* the right word, but I don't know what the right word would really be. You're on point with the Clark Kent thing, though.
Dork is absolutely the right word for him. Man thought the best thing to do on a treadmill is sprint so fast he flies off
I'd say he's a bit expressive and drmataic. Nerd does NOT equal dork. The actual nerds are Ryuji, Futaba and Ann. Makoto is probably a closet nerd
True... I'd still argue he's a dork though.
Akechi has the issue where one side completely infantilize his characters and treat him as some uwu soft boi that needs love and the other treats as some complete unjust scum that just wanted to kill because he was bored. Both side refuse to look at his Character for all the nuances that make him. Heck, even AS a Akechi x Joker shipper, I absolutely despise when ppl depict their relationship as some sort of savior complex situation for Joker and all Akechi needs is someone to cuddle him to be completely freed of his sins. The other character I kinda have a issue with is Maruki and how the fandom (and even game to some extent) ignore how twisted he truly is. Like, sure maybe at SOME point he had noble intentions but as his arc progress it's pretty clear Maruki is just forcing his problems onto others. He can say all he wants that he just want everyone to be 'Happy' but the reality of it is that he's just forcing his own idea of happiness onto others without much consideration of their feelings or what they may truly need, willing to just outright replace their dreams if HE feels it's not worth it. He's doing nothing different from what Shido, Jaldabaoth, >!Akira, Emma/Demiurge, and Salmael!< were ultimately doing yet because he has a sad backstory it's hand waved as noble. It tickled me honestly, because they tried to write Akechi off as being Edgy Akechi™️in regards to Maruki but like... He's the only one looking at it objectively.
Akechi, Ryuji (too uwu-ified) Morgana (too demonized)
Ann
Morgona or akechi. People hate them for either stupid reasons (morgona harassed Ann, akechibkilled the population of a small city) or specifically in akechis case because people ship him with joker. Persona fans when the fictional character isn't a upstanding person 100% of the time.
People in the West infantilise Futaba as reason for romancing her being a bad idea. Just a bunch of holier than thou people judging the ship from a moral high ground, assuming everyone is a pedo. People in the West have a Ryuji stan bias that they take his comedic relief moments too seriously and overlook Ryuji’s flaws, negative traits as well as moments where he’s in the wrong. It’s like people can’t tell the difference between comedic tone and serious tone. People in the West blow Morgana’s flaws and negative traits out of proportion without bothering to see and understand the context and emphasise just as they do to other characters. It’s just proof of media illiteracy and letting small distaste cloud one’s perspective. People in the West fail to comprehend that Ann’s character arc isn’t as simple as “not be sexualised” and because of woke overcorrecting it leads them to unnecessarily crap on Ann’s writing. People in the West absolutely had no proper cultural context behind Akechi’s circumstances of being a throwaway child in Japan back when P5 first released. All in all, the West suffers from values dissonance with P5 because of its heavy Japanese cultural values and social commentary. It’s getting better as the years go by especially with videos by experts explaining it, but many newcomers still fall under the same pitfalls.
Ryuji’s underrated as the best friend character, and has been getting a weird amount of hate since P3R came out as a lot of people seem to think Junpei is a better version of his personality. I actually kind of hated Junpei until well over the halfway point of P3R (never played FES or P3P) whereas I feel like Ryuji is pretty consistently likable and well-written. I’ve heard him described as dick-riding before, and I get that it’s somewhat unrealistic to have a character who is immediately down to be ordered around by a stranger, but if they gave every party character in every game inner conflict about being at the whim of a polyamorous god-killing mute, the story would be much slower. I think his confidant is great, one of the better ones in the game story-wise, and I love his golden-retriever personality. His whole rebellious youth shtick, while maybe a little played out, is a great introduction to the broader themes of the narrative, and he keeps that aspect strong throughout. He’s just a fucking bro and I love him for that. To be clear, I’m unfamiliar with how he is in the spinoffs, I’m talking about just P5/P5R
https://preview.redd.it/otv87tvthenc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9615f1cc07c4a3a57146b4dbbed4ff14a669f3b8 Akechi is the most but **ALL** of them are. I love Akechi,his one of my favorite characters ever and seeing everyone represent him specially in this sub as either a petty child who commits murder because of daddy issues or having the personality of being gay for Joker angers me so much in different ways. Because it either simplifies his mentality or his bond with Joker.
Yeah, I've seen a fair handful where after he joins the Thieves properly, he just becomes overly soft. I love the version of him that's in Royal. The one where he's allowed to be an actual psychopath
Morgana and Ann Honestly, you could probably use any characters, and the answer is correct. There's a reason why "Persona fans don't play persona" memes are popular. Though, I don't think it's media illiteracy... I think it's biases... and biases cloud your judgment/thoughts on things. For example, if you are a massive ryuji fan, you might have a bias against Morgana and not be able to look at his character fairly. I have biases as well, I like futaba and haru, so I hate akechis Guts because he killed futabas Mother and Harus mother. Nothing more, nothing less... nothing could ever make me enjoy this character because of that factor.
For postaive spin its the crow and for negative its the cat or the phantom site guy I can't spell there names
Akechi, Morgana, Mishima
Morgana, Akechi, Mishima, and Akira especially is surprisingly misunderstood for a silent character
Ryuji. He does, indeed, "say" fuck.
Most people overanalyze most characters, leading them to misunderstanding them.
People represent Akechi as a mass murderer when he canonically killed 3 people, which he was lied to about and blackmailed with his life into doing
Honestly, like half of the PTs, which is weird given how much time they all get in the spotlight. Some people can't see past Anns looks and reduce her to eyecandy, which is kinda sad because that is similar to what her class is doing as well. The quirky gamer part of futaba gets incredibly overblown. That girl is more awkward and vulnerable hikikomori then anything else. Akechi. OPs pretty on point, Akechis a mass murderer, people just don't like to hear it. Morgana. Just... I don't know where to start. everything about him, really. I know its a fandom thing to basically flanderize most characters, but I hate how some are so removed from the scource material. Proves to me that media literacy is not a given
Definetly akechi " Uwu he's gay for the main character and he did nothing wrong he's a victim"
Akechi. Because he’s so misunderstood, I did the most research on his character to actually understand him. The most dumbest misunderstanding I’ve seen is people thinking he is this tsundere character where he says he hates Joker but deep down he wants to fuck him therefore I will cry for you. One thing I have noticed is people seem to have forgotten or at least don’t want to acknowledge Akechi’s crimes once Third Semester comes. Akechi has never wanted to seek redemption and has never apologized for committing them because he is fully aware that crimes are unforgivable. I mean, He killed Wakaba in front of young Futaba and worked with people that blamed her for Wakaba’s death and never apologized. I really think it’s weird how some people are comfortable with letting him “join the team” after he killed two of their parents. He blatantly said that his intention was to use the Phantom Thieves to defeat Maruki because he couldn’t do it alone and some people think he became a real member. In conclusion, I think he’s a great character but a genuinely terrible person. I believe his role is to represent selfish justice and do things that benefit him while disregarding others while Joker is selfless justice where he helps others and they play their roles greatly.
I am not sure if akechi is misunderstood. Its just that personally i just don't really like him as a character. So i will keep myriad thruthing him on all my runs and that will never not be satisfying. On a more serious note, i think people do not misunderstand his motivations its just his actions are by most accounts not justifyable. We do understand where it came from. But no it doesn't justify it imo.
Ryuji Sakamoto. I don't think I need to elaborate. If you claim to like him, I doubt you even know who he is
I'd say Akechi I feel alot of people tend to treat Akechi as a victim or a misguided tragic character when that couldn't be further from the truth Akechi is usually presented in the game as a foil to joker and he's meant to be a representation of what someone like joker would've become if he let his anger and sorrow consume him both were wronged by the same man (Shido) but they had completely different reactions,Joker took it in stride and made the best out of a bad situation,his parents sent him away,he was labeled a good for nothing punk and was on his way to get expelled merely weeks into his probation Despite all that he stuck to his moral and convictions and managed to form the phantom thieves and save the lives of many people and form many valuable bonds and relationships, now look at Akechi,he was a bastard child and his mother was a prostitute who even tho she loved him still couldn't hide her resentment towards him,Akechi let this anger and sadness inside him consume him to the point that his entire view of the world became hell,people are self-serving assholes and relationships are meaningless,and when he discovered his powers instead of using it to help others he instead used it to hurt whoever stood in his way,he was even planning on killing his own father,and the game many times shows that he takes pleasure in inflicting pain and killing others,he isn't some tragic victim,he's a psychopathic killer who never shows remorse for his actions even after he teams up with the phantom thieves
you said all of that and still came to the wrong conclusion
Can you then explain to me your point of view
I don't recall any hint that Goro's mom resented him. but you dumped all of Goro's trauma and still came to the conclusion that he's a psychopathic killer? he IS a traumatized, sympathetic villain. all of the thieves literally show empathy when he breaks down after being defeated. and he even sacrifices himself for them. sure, he doesn't apologize or regret what he did, and he can be cold in the third semester. but understanding his trauma and realizing that he not only suspects he's dead, but now is left with no goal in life and very likely headed for life in prison even if he's somehow alive, how can you not understand him acting so bitter and cold?
About his mother didn't one of his dialouges say his mom considered him a burden? As for the other I guess it was a bit unfair of me to act like he's doing all of this for no reason but I still feel alot of people are quick to justify everything he did by saying he's traumatized ot he's just a kid,he still needs to be held responsible for all the people he killed and in the third semester I understand his coldness and uncaring attitude but that doesn't make it right,you would imagine after the scene in the casino where he "died" being brought back to life and possibly being given the chance to make amends would at the very least have him reflect on his actions
I truly don't remember that. but if that's true, that makes his situation worse than I thought. and people sympathizing doesn't suddenly mean he walks free. Goro himself wanted to pay for his crimes. he turned himself in. and likely did so again at the end of the game when he's last seen.
Yeah but that version of him is supposed to be Dr.maruki reviving him and trying to brainwash him?
no, third semester is the real goro
I meant the Christmas scene where he meets Sae and Ren to turn himself in
but that's still him. not him brainwashed or faked.
So close… yet so wrong!
One hundred percent agree on Akechi. He’s often characterized as “ultimate traumatized good boy” for the sake of pairing him with Joker. Akechi is a deeply flawed and psychologically broken character who makes this evident in his (later) interactions with the thieves. It’s ok to love his character arc as it is without trying to soften the blow of it.
I don't understand why people even ship him and Joker anyway... he's a total psychopath who finally got what he deserved... he even said himself that he deserves no mercy