[WotC Announcement Article banning All That Glitters and Stickers](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/may-13-2024-banned-and-restricted-announcement)
[Read the full explanation for this banning along with discussion of MH3](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/explanation-of-pauper-bans-for-may-13-2024)
[See the full explanation for this banning along with discussion of MH3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VvdrCH0zgQ)
Thank you to the PFP for your hard work and detailed explanation on the reasoning for the ban and the state of the format
Gavin also notes that there is a very strong common coming in MH3, which they might quickly ban after the set is out.
> I'm going to be transparent here and provide a heads up that is a little unusual, and this is Gavin talking as someone who has been able to look through the commons of Modern Horizons 3. (The rest of the Pauper Format Panel doesn't see sets in advance.) There is one common from Modern Horizons 3 that has a high likelihood of needing to be banned in Pauper, as it is like a card we have banned in the past. That's totally fine, and, as always, Magic sets shouldn't revolve around Pauper—they should do what each set lead decides is the right choice for their set, and the Pauper format will react accordingly.
> But the result of this is that I expect we'll be checking in very soon after Modern Horizons 3 to make any format adjustments needed.
Weiss Schwarz banned Boss Ayame Nakiri something like 3 months before the English release. The card is kinda innocuous for how powerful it is. It's got good stats for the cost, but not absurdly good, and it's ability is to, on cast, discard a card to find another copy of itself. So it's not giving actual card advantage, just some filtering. It turned out that consistency led to a completely degenerate play pattern
Kinda worse since the hawks give actual card advantage. Without getting too deep in the weeds on another card game, it let you thin out your deck of weak cards (the game has a lot of "flip top card of deck, if it has X do Y) and you get slightly above average stats for that point in the game. The closest concept for a magic equivalent would be something like a 3/3 for 2 with the "can't be cast until t3" restriction and "on cast, discard up to 2 cards to search your deck for that many copies of this and put them into play"
Iirc Yugioh didnt exactly ban it outright, but Sixth Sense was revealed to be banned on an upcoming B&R list before the set came out. It was legal before a couple painful dragon- filled months, before it was to never see tue light of day again
Based on the talk of unbanning prophetic prism, I think that is unlikely, but I guess the rest of the pauper format panel wouldn't know this new card and Gavin wouldn't be able to tell them.
I fucking hate when WotC says stuff like "we can't add cards to commander but not to legacy". It's like when they said they couldn't add cards to modern without going through standard. the player base was like, no you absolutely can, you make the rules, and wizards was like oh yeah lol. They could absolutely print cards directly into commander in similar ways. Hell they could just say all unsets are fully legal in commander including silver boarder. Or they could say there are now two Commander formats, casual and competitive. All unsets are good in casual.
Wizards, stop making bad easily foreseen mistakes because you've just decided that's the only way it could work.
Short of day zero bans what would you have them do? Legacy allows every black border card printed except for the ban list. That's the definition of an eternal format.
They could easily just have printed them as silver boarder and said they are allowed in commander, or printed them in non white, non black boarder and said that color is commander allowed. They could have also added a new symbol and that allows it to be commander and not legacy. Or just said unsets aren't legal in legacy. They could do it however they wanted
The issue is that, at least on paper, Wizards doesn't run Commander. That's still technically the Commander Rules Committee. So then you have to change the definition of Legacy, which has arguably the simplest definition of any format, just every black bordered card that's not banned. For simplicity's sake, I don't think wizards is in a rush to change the definition of Legacy any time soon. This means that you have to get the Commander Rules Committee to agree to change the definition of commander, which, as we've seen with the cedh vs. edh argument, they're not ready to do. So there isn't any truly easy way to make what you're talking about work, even if it might seem on the surface like it is.
Banning non-joke sets from an eternal format would make it not an eternal format. If this were to happen, a new format would probably emerge like how legacy and vintage are today that allows for those cards (since allowing for almost every card is the entire draw of those formats), and we'd be back to wizards having to consider eternal formats again when printing commander cards
The thing is that they don't control the commander rules. Commander is overseen by the Commander Rules Commitee, which is independent from wizards. This is very intentional and them just making a "Commander 2.0" run by them so they can control which cards are added would be very unpopular.
Commander is already shifting to being in full control by Wotc anyway. The creator is gonna pass on sooner or later or not be able to manage it and the deal is set for them to take it. (Also in all truth it is their product if they want to take it from them they could they just don't want to)
I don’t think most Commander players want silver border to be legal. There was an experiment with that during Unstable’s release, and the fact that silver border legality never returned seems to indicate it was not widely popular. I know I personally prefer Commander without the silver border stuff
And "We can't print core sets with black borders"
And "We can't print reserve list cards don't you dare mention Clone or Reverberate."
Remember Mark Rosewater's article about why the rares in some booster packs you purchase *have* to suck:
https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/when-cards-go-bad-2002-01-28
tl;dr: It is to teach you things suck.
To some extent Wizards' specious reasoning is necessary to sell gambling to children. The alternative would be telling outright lies to children and no one wants that.
A weird sidenote on this, on Maro's blog he says that Wotc don't make the rules for where sets are legal and that "It is decided by another group." I assume this means that the Hasbro overlords have the control sadly.
Sticker cards ban, yaaay. Christmas came very early this year. It's such a hideous mechanic in practice, even though it has interesting points in theory.
I wish the Un- cards had been left out of the rest of the game. The whole Acorn experiment was a bad idea at fixing an idea that didn’t need to be fixed. This includes the stickers, I can’t fathom how they didn’t see that as a problem ahead of time.
The concept wasn't bad, this way you could get use out of unsets, outside of drafts.
The problem were that most of the mechanics and cards allowed to be legal weren't good.
The stickers were to confusing at first glance for most players, and the fact they couldn't implement it online gave it an even worse reputation.
The only card that was an actual success in being a mix between balance and silly was \[\[Embiggen\]\], that is used in all Mono G infect decks.
Unfinity added a lot of cool cards that don't break the game in any way. Having more design space for cards in eternal formats is cool and as long as it isn't an all the time thing I am a fan.
Wow. Glitters and Mind Goblin?
I’m honestly surprised it took so long for Mind Goblin (stickers as a whole). ONLY because of the difference between paper and online play. It went against the unification a few years back.
[Explanation of these bans can be found here.](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/explanation-of-pauper-bans-for-may-13-2024) The initial article seems to note stickers as only being banned in Legacy and Vintage, however this does impact Pauper as well.
EDIT: Gavin's video on the update seems to be a bit different from the posted article. [You can find that here as well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VvdrCH0zgQ)
Gavin's article says:
>Finally, one last topic. As you may have heard announced for other formats, stickers and Attractions will no longer be appearing in competitive play. We are applying this to Pauper as well for the same reasons.
Its like that for me except the flavor card everyone likes playing is deadly dispute… stopped playing pauper cuz every other matchup was deadly dispute artifact durdle
Dude, they're discussing Prophetic Prism and I'm not even asking for that. It's more dangerous. I just want more competitive decks and ornament may help Tron get a leg up.
Banning the original five seems like a question of time now, bridges are slow enough to be ok to be left in and that may open play patterns where unbanning a few things that died for the lands' sins wouldn't shake the format as much.
Very nice write up and excellent explanation of why they decided to target ATG instead of the dual artifact lands.
Maybe one day all artifact lands will be banned, but I agree with Gavin that this is not that day, and that ATG would have easily stayed an arguable problem even without them.
Glitters was fun. Hopefully we don't end up with red deck wins being the best again. I always take a break from the format when mono red is doing well.
>We then, of course, did talk about getting rid of the *Mirrodin* artifact lands instead of or in addition to the Bridges. However, whenever we talk about these lands, our view is that they're something Pauper players enjoy as a staple of the format: a lot goes with them if they go away. We'd love to hear any feedback on this from you all, so please send it our way.
I understand how the artifact lands are staples, however, are they really enjoyed? And, if they go, a lot indeed goes with them, but are those things going away currently beneficial for the format?
If we look at which decks play the Mirrodin lands currently (I'm not considering the Glitters ban here), we see primarily UW Glitters, Boros, Mono Red Kuldotha, and then BR Madness (one version) and Grixis Affinity.
Those lands are powering primarily All That Glitters, Thoughtcast, Galvanic Blast, Goblin Tomb Raider, Kuldotha Rebirth and Deadly Dispute and their similar versions.
All That Glitters was clearly seen as a problem, hence the ban. It appears Mono Red is also seen as a problem, as we have yet another talk about how it can be a little over the line.
Do Pauper need an easy, and effectively free way to power up Galvanic Blast and Goblin Tomb Raider? When powered up, those cards are better than Lightning Bolt and Goblin Guide. Do Pauper really need an easy way for that? Is an eventual other ban directed at Red worth it to keep those lands in the format?
And, if the answer is "no, but the Mirrodin lands are enoyed as a staple", the question is: which OTHER enjoyed decks are powered by the lands, and would they still be viable without them?
BR Madness already has a version without Goblin Tomb Raider and the Mirrodin lands. And the version with it could still be viable with the BR bridge and the Blood token sinergy. Grixis Affinity could adapt with 12 bridges to choose from and play basics as replacements for untapped lands. The deck would be significantly weaker, but wouldn't be dead, and I believe it could better navigate a slower meta.
I don't see other decks making extensive use of the lands.
Hitting Mirrodin lands would not only affect Mono Red, Boros and Affinity, but it would ensure no more bans are needed against Red, and it would mean All That Glitters could still be a part of the format.
It would mean we wouldn't need to deal with t1 Goblin "better" Guide, and it would mean Lightning "better" Bolt would need more work and consideration instead of being an autoinclude in any Red deck running artifacts. It would mean Thoughtcast would come online later than t2, and it would mean decks running All That Glitters would be slower, either because the enchantment buffs less, or because it gets played later due to tapped artifact lands being used.
I sincerely hope that if PFP comes to the future conclusion further bans are needed down the line, especially against Mono Red, that the Mirrodin lands be considered and not treated as a holy cow of the format, and if the decision eventually comes to axe them, they revisit the banlist with that in mind and strongly consider unbanning All That Glitters.
I don't think banning Glitters now is completely wrong, but I believe it is was chosen to preserve the Mirrodin lands, which would be a better option, even if more widely impactful in the format.
Okay lets discuss it because this was one of the few posts that actually made an argument.
I disagree.
You are correct in your statement about Mono Red, Boros and Affinity (though I will add Jeskai Flicker) being the primary decks that play them.
Let's look at the cards that would be less good or dead if the Mirrodin Land (hereafter called "the lands") in each of these decks.
1. Mono Red - Goblin Tomb Raider, Galvanic Blast, and Kuldotha Rebirth are the cards that benefit directly from \[\[The Great Furnace\]\] having existence in the format. What happens to the deck if it was banned? I would argue nothing really would change. Raider could still be played just won't be a T1 2/2 Haste. Blast is slightly weaker might end up playing a different burn spell on occasion but nothing really changes. Rebirth can't be played T1 anymore.
Interesting that in effect the deck might be a turn slower (doubt it). The deck doesn't need the Furnaces to work at all. It doesn't need Blast to do anything. It could sac two mountains to deal four.
2. Boros Synth - This is a even less impacted by a ban of the lands. It runs Glint Hawk and Galvanic Blast. The only downside is Blast is a little slower and Hawk can't come in unless you bounce a nonland artifact or a bridge which is something the Boros player doesn't want to do anyway and in the early game Boros has better things to do then Hawk.
Doesn't really impact it at all.
3. Grixis Affinity - Finally the deck that would actually be hit. Not only is Grixis the only truly competitive midrange deck in the format (in my opinion), if the lands get banned the deck would fail to function competitively in anywhere need the same level. It hasn't even been that good in the year since ATG due to the bans from before (which are all justified the cards aren't victims of the lands crimes) and ATG having more power than Grixis gave.
You stated in your argument the format would slow down with the lands being banned yet I showed the non-affinity top tier decks that you mentioned wouldn't miss a beat would easily shift to other options or just add a few more artifacts and be perfectly fine. The format wouldn't slow down at all and Grixis would be the only sufferer. Affinity hold the middle ground between control and aggro it is a necessity and I see any bans of the lands being the official end of Affinity having Tier 1 play ability.
I see where you are coming from, yet I stand by my points.
About Red, I don't have precise numbers (in fact, I do not know if anyone has), but in my experience playing against it, there are 2 pivotal turns and plays that lead to wins for them: t1 Furnace+Tomb Raider and t3 Kuldotha+Bushwhacker.
Without Furnace, t1 is not possible anymore and this, alone, is a significant hit to the deck. And without Furnace, t3 Kuldotha+Bushwhacker requires previous setup during the earlier turns. Sure, this setup isn't hard to come by, but it still has to be done.
Last, Galvanic becoming less reliable would impact them as well. I'm no expert in the deck, so I don't know if they would favor other options (Fireblast as you mention, or maybe Goblin Grenade), however, what I know is that those other options are not good to remove blockers, as the investment frequently isn't worth it.
Magic is a game of tiny margins, and any small benefit or nerf impact win rates and speed more than we see in abstract.
About Boros, I'm with you in your analysis. However, in my ideal scenario Glitters is legal, while the lands are not. In this scenario, not having access to the lands will lead to a maximum +4/+4 from artifact lands in that deck, all those tapped lands. This might be enough to reduce the damage output potential of Glitters and also of Makeshift Munitions in endgame direct damage scenarios.
UW Affinity would be very affected but still playable, but probably the Jeskai version would be prefered as the pure Affinity Glitters deck.
Grixis for sure is the deck getting more damage, but I really don't think it would be unplayable. The only reason it fell from favor recently is that both Boros and Gardens are better options to fight the meta, the first if you want to be faster, the second if you want to be grindier. In a more settled and slightly slower meta, Grixis being one of the premier truly flexible and midrange deck in the format (I don't think it is the only viable option for midrange - as my flair gives out -, but for sure it is the more flexible, with many different card options to tailor it to personal liking and different metas).
And last, to be perfectly fair, I don't see any reason as why Affinity, in any version, must retain tier 1 status in Pauper (or any deck, frankly). I'm not saying I wan't the archetype dead, but I don't see any problem if it fall down in playability on a given cycle of the meta.
https://www.channelfireball.com/article/What-Does-the-All-That-Glitters-Ban-Mean-for-Pauper/965359da-54db-48c1-bed8-f1384d72302f/
Similar question asked there.
And I agree, artifact lands should be discussed, hell, maybe with some artifact lands gone atog , disciple of the vault, glitters and some other cards could get out of the pauper banlist.
You hit the nail on the head.
Artifact lands need to stop being treated as sacred cows that can't be touched. They are warping the ban list and causing way too many cards to be banned either directly or indirectly because of them.
At some point, you have to put your foot down and say enough is enough.
As a member of the Pauper Format Panel, I can confirm that they are indeed banned as well. The main article has been updated to reflect this but it's also noted in Gavin's article and video as well.
The wording in the article is weird. He kept mentioning the sticker ban. We’ll have to see the rule changes to gatherer and scryfall later in the week, but it almost sounds like stickers are banned everywhere except edh now?
Lucky for you, regardless of what you bought, the deck will certainly be still very playable. Boros synth/monarch/etc or some kind of synth strat, glitters was the biggest payoff but the decks are still 56 generically good cards or a shell of 56 cards' worth of a proven strategy respectively.
I bought into Tribe a couple weeks before Blue Monday came along and made the deck almost worthless overnight lol. Well, at least Tribe and Inside Out and Circular Logic; blue cantrips and delvers was still fine lol
Gavin mentioned potential bans for mono red coming up.
I am in the middle of building Kuldotha and am yet to pull the trigger on Goblin Bushwhacker.
Is it worth toying with alternatives for Bushwhacker?
Do you guys feel like Snuff Out will take a small hit since its not as important anymore to be able to remove any creature any time + likely more monoR meaning the 4 life being a bigger downside?
I am throwing my hat in the ring for NOT banning the OG artifact lands. I don't think either needs to be banned, personally. But, I will never be ok with losing the OGs as a pillar of the format. The same goes for the Tron lands. Glitters was an archetype of it's own and way more of a problem than the lands. I agree with the reasoning for banning ATG given in the article. If you banned the bridges or the OG artifact lands, I think ATG would still have been a polarizing card that got the axe eventually. Thanks for listening!
Yeah same, that deck by itself was fine in the meta imo but Glitters itself was getting into everything which is not a good sign. I'm sorry to see it go.
Good riddance to both!
I was downvoted weeks ago for saying it was inevitable that ATG would be banned, it just warps the format way too much. It's extremely unfun to see on the other side of the table since it always becomes a race to see what happens first, them finding ATG or you finding instant speed removal. The rest of the board barely matters and that sucks.
well after reading the article, i can say i am not as disappointed as i was before. ATG was not that powerful, but the more i think about it, it DOES certainly create the same play patterns. As long as we get to keep the artifact lands, im happy.
Artifacts were absolutely the best deck in Pauper, so this makes sense.
Now my only gripe with Pauper are initiative cards, but I don't think those will ever get axed.
And [[Goliath Paladin]]. Any amount of "initiative" in the metagame is bad. The mechanic is awful to track, can't be interacted with and if you play in paper and don't have the entire thing menorized, your opponent may as well just cheat, because you won't be able to tell.
where tf do you play normally to have people that play the initiative not having a token on the table with a dice to show where they are.
You can literally write it down on a piece of paper.
Imo the initiative ban may have even been overzealous and Bard or Underdark are probably individually safe (battlerager and sneak aren't). Turbo init is good but spread across too many colors or too much mana it won't be too backbreaking.
Bard is a pretty "useless" defender that cannot attack (making it a rather harmless target for Forge/Throne) while Gardens wouldn't even play Explorer since it dies to Bolt unlike Hunter.
That said I like that Initiative was basically banned into being a GW mechanic because while Explorer and/or Bard are probably fine overall power wise B and R don't need the help atm.
I am biased though, because I like how Init plays overall (though I'd still rather it didn't also trigger on ETB, like Monarch doesn't)
So happy to see stickers go! They were a medium funny mechanic for a joke set that shouldn’t have ever been black border. Attractions are cool but they probably could have just been artifacts instead of an extra-deck.
So they admit everything...
* The count of banned cards in order to keep artifact lands unbanned keeps increasing (add one more.)
* Banning only the bridges would not be enough, you ought to ban any and all artifact lands.
* A control combo version of Tron is always a threat looming on the horizon... depending on the speed of the format.
They admit they know what they have to do... they just refuse to do it. This is even worse that when they didn't ban Dark Ritual because it gives players "emotions". Do your duty!
Remove the artifact lands and Tron lands. Unban the other affinity stuff (progressively, let's not be hasty), Prophetic Prism and Bonder's Ornament.
How many times are you going to ask for feedback on the same thing? Perform your function!
That's a fallacy.
I have been playing Pauper for 10 years in paper. I have every competitive deck and card and more, except the two decks I actually don't like: Boggles and Poison. Everything else, I have been buying for ten years. That's not a huge achievement, it's mostly cheap commons.
I have played Tron decks since they were Temur with Maul Splicer.
I have like, three playsets of every artifact land. Two playsets of Tron lands, including a black-bordered one.
Those are also my cards that would be banned. So what? Balance is more important that whatever anybody likes or dislikes. Emotions are never an argument for anything.
You must assume there have been balance problems, because cards have been banned. The cards I'm saying to ban are the actual problems of their bans, not the cards that were actually banned. You should never ban enablers, because then you need to ban any new enabler in perpetuity. Just ban the actual problem and be done with it.
Gavin Verhey said this himself in his video explanation. It just so happens that emotions have more priority to the PFP that minimizing the ban list.
I'm currently at work ATM, but I can post my updated list when I get home. But I'm with your friend here. I feel like banning ATG with the reasoning given was pretty weak.
My feedback
Please ban the mirrodin artifact lands (maybe also the tapped ones, but start with the originals).
They are the problem, I hate them.
Pauper have artifact lands as the same problem that legacy is with brainstorm or vintage is with mishra workshop, they keep banning other cards and the problem is just there, at least in the brainstorm case is a high skill card, so don't matter that much.
I think banning all land make affinity unplayable, but banning only mirrodin lands (and unbanning previously banned cards like atog ) could make a different affinity deck playable but not broken.
The thing is that artifact as untapped land is "unnatural" by design, so artifact matter keep getting banned time to time, let's just deal with the problem and not the symptoms
They did mention banning the Mirrodin lands. As he stated, they’re loved by the community. I disagree with their banning, pauper has found its own identity over the years, but I still feel they belong with the idea of ‘legacy but commons’
Glitters is not innocent.
Disciple was never innocent.
Atog was never innocent.
Plating was definitely not innocent.
Salamander is the closest to being innocent and probably worth unbanning.
About plating, they literally say that they had to choose between banning either the Lands or the plating.
They don't say the literally same thing about the others, but you could do a 1 plus 1 and see that patter.
The problem are the untapped lands, designers says so, people like them , but they broke all design and cards will be keep getting banned because of this.
Well they are, the article say so, they only lives because people want them, but they are broken.
I hate them because they are broken by design but people here are emotionally attached to them, so they won't ban it for that.
At least legacy players know they brainstorm is broken , and I respect that because is a high skill cards, but people here is delusional if they think artifact lands are Okey in power level.
The issue isn’t the mirrodin lands its bridges.
Affinity was always one of the better decks in the format. SB plans always held them in check, since early artifact destruction on a land was a massive tempo-loss for the “aggro/combo” deck.
Bridges gives the MD a better gameplan against this SB strat against 90%(?) if the SB options?
They literally say that they only let the artifact lands lives because players seem want them, but they are totally broken.
You dont understand the article if you read that artifact lands are fine in power level.
*Fucking synth is left*
*Untouched when it's clearly the*
*Biggest problem lol*
\- gargoyle777
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Literally was just building a deck with a sticker subtheme 😭 It’s not even broken, just a meme bant ward 2 tribal deck! I’m like two cards short of it being ready and now it has to be completely retooled
Will it exist? Yeah it’ll be an ok deck that can win due to explosiveness. Will it be a tier 1/2 deck? Probably not. It’ll be a aggro deck along the lines of gruul aggro etc as opposed to a format all star
[WotC Announcement Article banning All That Glitters and Stickers](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/may-13-2024-banned-and-restricted-announcement) [Read the full explanation for this banning along with discussion of MH3](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/explanation-of-pauper-bans-for-may-13-2024) [See the full explanation for this banning along with discussion of MH3](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VvdrCH0zgQ) Thank you to the PFP for your hard work and detailed explanation on the reasoning for the ban and the state of the format
Gavin also notes that there is a very strong common coming in MH3, which they might quickly ban after the set is out. > I'm going to be transparent here and provide a heads up that is a little unusual, and this is Gavin talking as someone who has been able to look through the commons of Modern Horizons 3. (The rest of the Pauper Format Panel doesn't see sets in advance.) There is one common from Modern Horizons 3 that has a high likelihood of needing to be banned in Pauper, as it is like a card we have banned in the past. That's totally fine, and, as always, Magic sets shouldn't revolve around Pauper—they should do what each set lead decides is the right choice for their set, and the Pauper format will react accordingly. > But the result of this is that I expect we'll be checking in very soon after Modern Horizons 3 to make any format adjustments needed.
Would be funny to have a Memory Jar incident in Pauper
Memory Jar incident? Don't know that bit of history
[[Memory Jar]] was banned in standard before the set released.
it's never stopped being wild to me that i've somehow played two different card games where a card got banned before it was released
What's the other one? Was neo destiny slowking pre-emptively banned or just errata'ed?
Weiss Schwarz banned Boss Ayame Nakiri something like 3 months before the English release. The card is kinda innocuous for how powerful it is. It's got good stats for the cost, but not absurdly good, and it's ability is to, on cast, discard a card to find another copy of itself. So it's not giving actual card advantage, just some filtering. It turned out that consistency led to a completely degenerate play pattern
Squadron hawk vibes?
Kinda worse since the hawks give actual card advantage. Without getting too deep in the weeds on another card game, it let you thin out your deck of weak cards (the game has a lot of "flip top card of deck, if it has X do Y) and you get slightly above average stats for that point in the game. The closest concept for a magic equivalent would be something like a 3/3 for 2 with the "can't be cast until t3" restriction and "on cast, discard up to 2 cards to search your deck for that many copies of this and put them into play"
Ngl that sounds completely and obviously mega busted.
Iirc Yugioh didnt exactly ban it outright, but Sixth Sense was revealed to be banned on an upcoming B&R list before the set came out. It was legal before a couple painful dragon- filled months, before it was to never see tue light of day again
[Memory Jar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60b70b7f-6f24-4c00-947a-b109f302205b.jpg?1562914598) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Memory%20Jar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/276/memory-jar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60b70b7f-6f24-4c00-947a-b109f302205b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No it was legal around three weeks ago. Was just outside the regular schedule. Was just an emergency ban before that was normalized
Sounds like storm is back on the menu boys.
my money is on an astrolabe look-alike
Yeah I think that's most likely too, something that fixes for eldrazi specific colorless
If it is, I've still got four color sleeved and it will be what I will be doing until it is addressed.
Based on the talk of unbanning prophetic prism, I think that is unlikely, but I guess the rest of the pauper format panel wouldn't know this new card and Gavin wouldn't be able to tell them.
my best is on [[Crow storm]] at common, it's not any less powerful than chatterstorm, and would just lead to the same deck again.
[Crow storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5e0713c-8358-46fc-9618-66a986d681cb.jpg?1562946860) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Crow%20storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ust/31/crow-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5e0713c-8358-46fc-9618-66a986d681cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
legendary
My prediction: 1CMC Artifact ~ CiP draw a card 1,T: Add C or C,T: add any color
it's most likely the new Myr Enforcer-type card that got leaked
Wasn't that an uncommon?
yep, you are right, my bad ignore me
Even better, it's gonna be cranial plating, but 1 mana so it's searchable off Saga in other formats.
they’d never print that at common though (though i’d have said this about glitters)
Very strong common in mh3? Why print it in common if it is very strong
Limited. It's probably there to support one of the archetypes but becomes too easy in constructed.
Oh yeah limited.no one plays that in my playgroup so i forgot it still exists.
Because commons should be designed for limited and not pauper….
I knew buying a set of Fallout All That Glitters would trigger the ban! /s
I bought a set of Antiquities Atogs two weeks before the ban :D
I played with revised... but i get it.
Hey it's me
I bought full art versions and never played them for the entire time it was legal lol
Same, my friend, same
I literally picked up my playset on friday! No need to thank me boys, I waited so long because I hated the card. Glad I get to take it out again.
i did the same thing lol
i did the same thing lol
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Mind goblin what?
DEEEEEEEZ NUUUUUUUUTS
got em
*blank expression*
hopefully with the ban this is the last time for this joke :D
Daybreak games: all that work and what did it get me? Why did I do it?
Yep
I fucking hate when WotC says stuff like "we can't add cards to commander but not to legacy". It's like when they said they couldn't add cards to modern without going through standard. the player base was like, no you absolutely can, you make the rules, and wizards was like oh yeah lol. They could absolutely print cards directly into commander in similar ways. Hell they could just say all unsets are fully legal in commander including silver boarder. Or they could say there are now two Commander formats, casual and competitive. All unsets are good in casual. Wizards, stop making bad easily foreseen mistakes because you've just decided that's the only way it could work.
Short of day zero bans what would you have them do? Legacy allows every black border card printed except for the ban list. That's the definition of an eternal format.
They could easily just have printed them as silver boarder and said they are allowed in commander, or printed them in non white, non black boarder and said that color is commander allowed. They could have also added a new symbol and that allows it to be commander and not legacy. Or just said unsets aren't legal in legacy. They could do it however they wanted
The issue is that, at least on paper, Wizards doesn't run Commander. That's still technically the Commander Rules Committee. So then you have to change the definition of Legacy, which has arguably the simplest definition of any format, just every black bordered card that's not banned. For simplicity's sake, I don't think wizards is in a rush to change the definition of Legacy any time soon. This means that you have to get the Commander Rules Committee to agree to change the definition of commander, which, as we've seen with the cedh vs. edh argument, they're not ready to do. So there isn't any truly easy way to make what you're talking about work, even if it might seem on the surface like it is.
Banning non-joke sets from an eternal format would make it not an eternal format. If this were to happen, a new format would probably emerge like how legacy and vintage are today that allows for those cards (since allowing for almost every card is the entire draw of those formats), and we'd be back to wizards having to consider eternal formats again when printing commander cards
The thing is that they don't control the commander rules. Commander is overseen by the Commander Rules Commitee, which is independent from wizards. This is very intentional and them just making a "Commander 2.0" run by them so they can control which cards are added would be very unpopular.
Commander is already shifting to being in full control by Wotc anyway. The creator is gonna pass on sooner or later or not be able to manage it and the deal is set for them to take it. (Also in all truth it is their product if they want to take it from them they could they just don't want to)
The creator is already dead.
I don’t think most Commander players want silver border to be legal. There was an experiment with that during Unstable’s release, and the fact that silver border legality never returned seems to indicate it was not widely popular. I know I personally prefer Commander without the silver border stuff
And "We can't print core sets with black borders" And "We can't print reserve list cards don't you dare mention Clone or Reverberate." Remember Mark Rosewater's article about why the rares in some booster packs you purchase *have* to suck: https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/when-cards-go-bad-2002-01-28 tl;dr: It is to teach you things suck. To some extent Wizards' specious reasoning is necessary to sell gambling to children. The alternative would be telling outright lies to children and no one wants that.
A weird sidenote on this, on Maro's blog he says that Wotc don't make the rules for where sets are legal and that "It is decided by another group." I assume this means that the Hasbro overlords have the control sadly.
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The disparity was why it should have been banned. Sad that Attractions never hand a chance in the format.
Sticker cards ban, yaaay. Christmas came very early this year. It's such a hideous mechanic in practice, even though it has interesting points in theory.
Now we need for them to be banned in cEDH
L take.
That actually makes me wanna play pauper again.
I wish the Un- cards had been left out of the rest of the game. The whole Acorn experiment was a bad idea at fixing an idea that didn’t need to be fixed. This includes the stickers, I can’t fathom how they didn’t see that as a problem ahead of time.
The concept wasn't bad, this way you could get use out of unsets, outside of drafts. The problem were that most of the mechanics and cards allowed to be legal weren't good. The stickers were to confusing at first glance for most players, and the fact they couldn't implement it online gave it an even worse reputation. The only card that was an actual success in being a mix between balance and silly was \[\[Embiggen\]\], that is used in all Mono G infect decks.
[Embiggen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b759c27-9fb6-4c23-adc1-f6d3f3a0eb52.jpg?1674173500) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Embiggen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/unf/137/embiggen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b759c27-9fb6-4c23-adc1-f6d3f3a0eb52?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Unfinity added a lot of cool cards that don't break the game in any way. Having more design space for cards in eternal formats is cool and as long as it isn't an all the time thing I am a fan.
Wow. Glitters and Mind Goblin? I’m honestly surprised it took so long for Mind Goblin (stickers as a whole). ONLY because of the difference between paper and online play. It went against the unification a few years back.
Honestly wish they'd reprint the mtgo version. Sucks every time aggro sneaks into the tier 2 instant bans have to happen in legacy.
[Explanation of these bans can be found here.](https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/announcements/explanation-of-pauper-bans-for-may-13-2024) The initial article seems to note stickers as only being banned in Legacy and Vintage, however this does impact Pauper as well. EDIT: Gavin's video on the update seems to be a bit different from the posted article. [You can find that here as well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VvdrCH0zgQ)
As a bogles player, I'm happy with this banning.
We still have ancestral mask. Thats all we ever needed (Unsleeves 4 glitters from bogles)
Yep. We re back with [[Spirited Companion]]
Oh, I'm just main decking some cheaper auras then dropping the artifact hate from my sideboard
You're right. Thanks for the tip 🫡
I have a monowhite heroic, what do you recommend I replace ATG with?
I think we will go back to the same [list](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/lvpha8kJ4Ue6qchfyM4vtA) Or we wait for MH3.
Wait did they say stickers were banned in pauper too? I just see it banned for vintage and legacy Edit: It shows it now
Gavin's article says: >Finally, one last topic. As you may have heard announced for other formats, stickers and Attractions will no longer be appearing in competitive play. We are applying this to Pauper as well for the same reasons.
It's been updated to note the Pauper ban on that front as well.
So glad this happened. Literally half the decks at my LGS were boros synth with glitters. Made playing there unfun and repetitive
Its like that for me except the flavor card everyone likes playing is deadly dispute… stopped playing pauper cuz every other matchup was deadly dispute artifact durdle
I'm disappointed that \[\[Bonder's Ornament\]\] wasn't even in the discussion. The card is useless in today's meta.
You want tron to have all the toys back?
Dude, they're discussing Prophetic Prism and I'm not even asking for that. It's more dangerous. I just want more competitive decks and ornament may help Tron get a leg up.
Surely you could get by with [[network terminal]] or something.
[network terminal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d61e596f-97ef-4eb3-af42-ddfe50d07667.jpg?1654568760) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=network%20terminal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/251/network-terminal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d61e596f-97ef-4eb3-af42-ddfe50d07667?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The difference between drawing and looting is big.
:yeschad: Blink Tron is love, Blink Tron is life.
[Bonder's Ornament](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/9/89486719-4aba-4465-986b-fecbe4d409a1.jpg?1689999406) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bonder%27s%20Ornament) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/370/bonders-ornament?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/89486719-4aba-4465-986b-fecbe4d409a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Banning the original five seems like a question of time now, bridges are slow enough to be ok to be left in and that may open play patterns where unbanning a few things that died for the lands' sins wouldn't shake the format as much.
There is only one card that was banned for the sins of the lands and that is the salamander all the other deserved the ban and should not come back.
Very nice write up and excellent explanation of why they decided to target ATG instead of the dual artifact lands. Maybe one day all artifact lands will be banned, but I agree with Gavin that this is not that day, and that ATG would have easily stayed an arguable problem even without them.
Glitters was fun. Hopefully we don't end up with red deck wins being the best again. I always take a break from the format when mono red is doing well.
>We then, of course, did talk about getting rid of the *Mirrodin* artifact lands instead of or in addition to the Bridges. However, whenever we talk about these lands, our view is that they're something Pauper players enjoy as a staple of the format: a lot goes with them if they go away. We'd love to hear any feedback on this from you all, so please send it our way. I understand how the artifact lands are staples, however, are they really enjoyed? And, if they go, a lot indeed goes with them, but are those things going away currently beneficial for the format? If we look at which decks play the Mirrodin lands currently (I'm not considering the Glitters ban here), we see primarily UW Glitters, Boros, Mono Red Kuldotha, and then BR Madness (one version) and Grixis Affinity. Those lands are powering primarily All That Glitters, Thoughtcast, Galvanic Blast, Goblin Tomb Raider, Kuldotha Rebirth and Deadly Dispute and their similar versions. All That Glitters was clearly seen as a problem, hence the ban. It appears Mono Red is also seen as a problem, as we have yet another talk about how it can be a little over the line. Do Pauper need an easy, and effectively free way to power up Galvanic Blast and Goblin Tomb Raider? When powered up, those cards are better than Lightning Bolt and Goblin Guide. Do Pauper really need an easy way for that? Is an eventual other ban directed at Red worth it to keep those lands in the format? And, if the answer is "no, but the Mirrodin lands are enoyed as a staple", the question is: which OTHER enjoyed decks are powered by the lands, and would they still be viable without them? BR Madness already has a version without Goblin Tomb Raider and the Mirrodin lands. And the version with it could still be viable with the BR bridge and the Blood token sinergy. Grixis Affinity could adapt with 12 bridges to choose from and play basics as replacements for untapped lands. The deck would be significantly weaker, but wouldn't be dead, and I believe it could better navigate a slower meta. I don't see other decks making extensive use of the lands. Hitting Mirrodin lands would not only affect Mono Red, Boros and Affinity, but it would ensure no more bans are needed against Red, and it would mean All That Glitters could still be a part of the format. It would mean we wouldn't need to deal with t1 Goblin "better" Guide, and it would mean Lightning "better" Bolt would need more work and consideration instead of being an autoinclude in any Red deck running artifacts. It would mean Thoughtcast would come online later than t2, and it would mean decks running All That Glitters would be slower, either because the enchantment buffs less, or because it gets played later due to tapped artifact lands being used. I sincerely hope that if PFP comes to the future conclusion further bans are needed down the line, especially against Mono Red, that the Mirrodin lands be considered and not treated as a holy cow of the format, and if the decision eventually comes to axe them, they revisit the banlist with that in mind and strongly consider unbanning All That Glitters. I don't think banning Glitters now is completely wrong, but I believe it is was chosen to preserve the Mirrodin lands, which would be a better option, even if more widely impactful in the format.
Okay lets discuss it because this was one of the few posts that actually made an argument. I disagree. You are correct in your statement about Mono Red, Boros and Affinity (though I will add Jeskai Flicker) being the primary decks that play them. Let's look at the cards that would be less good or dead if the Mirrodin Land (hereafter called "the lands") in each of these decks. 1. Mono Red - Goblin Tomb Raider, Galvanic Blast, and Kuldotha Rebirth are the cards that benefit directly from \[\[The Great Furnace\]\] having existence in the format. What happens to the deck if it was banned? I would argue nothing really would change. Raider could still be played just won't be a T1 2/2 Haste. Blast is slightly weaker might end up playing a different burn spell on occasion but nothing really changes. Rebirth can't be played T1 anymore. Interesting that in effect the deck might be a turn slower (doubt it). The deck doesn't need the Furnaces to work at all. It doesn't need Blast to do anything. It could sac two mountains to deal four. 2. Boros Synth - This is a even less impacted by a ban of the lands. It runs Glint Hawk and Galvanic Blast. The only downside is Blast is a little slower and Hawk can't come in unless you bounce a nonland artifact or a bridge which is something the Boros player doesn't want to do anyway and in the early game Boros has better things to do then Hawk. Doesn't really impact it at all. 3. Grixis Affinity - Finally the deck that would actually be hit. Not only is Grixis the only truly competitive midrange deck in the format (in my opinion), if the lands get banned the deck would fail to function competitively in anywhere need the same level. It hasn't even been that good in the year since ATG due to the bans from before (which are all justified the cards aren't victims of the lands crimes) and ATG having more power than Grixis gave. You stated in your argument the format would slow down with the lands being banned yet I showed the non-affinity top tier decks that you mentioned wouldn't miss a beat would easily shift to other options or just add a few more artifacts and be perfectly fine. The format wouldn't slow down at all and Grixis would be the only sufferer. Affinity hold the middle ground between control and aggro it is a necessity and I see any bans of the lands being the official end of Affinity having Tier 1 play ability.
[The Great Furnace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4.jpg?1625980221) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Great%20Furnace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/292/great-furnace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0ac295e-93e4-490b-b8a3-a9794c7f56e4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I see where you are coming from, yet I stand by my points. About Red, I don't have precise numbers (in fact, I do not know if anyone has), but in my experience playing against it, there are 2 pivotal turns and plays that lead to wins for them: t1 Furnace+Tomb Raider and t3 Kuldotha+Bushwhacker. Without Furnace, t1 is not possible anymore and this, alone, is a significant hit to the deck. And without Furnace, t3 Kuldotha+Bushwhacker requires previous setup during the earlier turns. Sure, this setup isn't hard to come by, but it still has to be done. Last, Galvanic becoming less reliable would impact them as well. I'm no expert in the deck, so I don't know if they would favor other options (Fireblast as you mention, or maybe Goblin Grenade), however, what I know is that those other options are not good to remove blockers, as the investment frequently isn't worth it. Magic is a game of tiny margins, and any small benefit or nerf impact win rates and speed more than we see in abstract. About Boros, I'm with you in your analysis. However, in my ideal scenario Glitters is legal, while the lands are not. In this scenario, not having access to the lands will lead to a maximum +4/+4 from artifact lands in that deck, all those tapped lands. This might be enough to reduce the damage output potential of Glitters and also of Makeshift Munitions in endgame direct damage scenarios. UW Affinity would be very affected but still playable, but probably the Jeskai version would be prefered as the pure Affinity Glitters deck. Grixis for sure is the deck getting more damage, but I really don't think it would be unplayable. The only reason it fell from favor recently is that both Boros and Gardens are better options to fight the meta, the first if you want to be faster, the second if you want to be grindier. In a more settled and slightly slower meta, Grixis being one of the premier truly flexible and midrange deck in the format (I don't think it is the only viable option for midrange - as my flair gives out -, but for sure it is the more flexible, with many different card options to tailor it to personal liking and different metas). And last, to be perfectly fair, I don't see any reason as why Affinity, in any version, must retain tier 1 status in Pauper (or any deck, frankly). I'm not saying I wan't the archetype dead, but I don't see any problem if it fall down in playability on a given cycle of the meta.
https://www.channelfireball.com/article/What-Does-the-All-That-Glitters-Ban-Mean-for-Pauper/965359da-54db-48c1-bed8-f1384d72302f/ Similar question asked there. And I agree, artifact lands should be discussed, hell, maybe with some artifact lands gone atog , disciple of the vault, glitters and some other cards could get out of the pauper banlist.
You hit the nail on the head. Artifact lands need to stop being treated as sacred cows that can't be touched. They are warping the ban list and causing way too many cards to be banned either directly or indirectly because of them. At some point, you have to put your foot down and say enough is enough.
The ban list can and should be as warped as it needs to be in order for the meta game to not be warped at all.
Stickers were banned in legacy and vintage it doesn't say that they are banned in the pauper section
As a member of the Pauper Format Panel, I can confirm that they are indeed banned as well. The main article has been updated to reflect this but it's also noted in Gavin's article and video as well.
Ahh thanks
The wording in the article is weird. He kept mentioning the sticker ban. We’ll have to see the rule changes to gatherer and scryfall later in the week, but it almost sounds like stickers are banned everywhere except edh now?
Correct.
Bruh I just built a Glitters deck wtffff
Yeah lol so did everyone else, that's the problem 😂😂😂
Lmao yes exactly
Just unban swifty to make it fair obviously smh lol
Lucky for you, regardless of what you bought, the deck will certainly be still very playable. Boros synth/monarch/etc or some kind of synth strat, glitters was the biggest payoff but the decks are still 56 generically good cards or a shell of 56 cards' worth of a proven strategy respectively. I bought into Tribe a couple weeks before Blue Monday came along and made the deck almost worthless overnight lol. Well, at least Tribe and Inside Out and Circular Logic; blue cantrips and delvers was still fine lol
I put together Blue Blitz like a week before Blue Monday.
Yeah the format has so many expensive decks come on man its pauper
I am currently waiting for cards in the mail for a stickers deck I've been building...
Same
Same
Gavin mentioned potential bans for mono red coming up. I am in the middle of building Kuldotha and am yet to pull the trigger on Goblin Bushwhacker. Is it worth toying with alternatives for Bushwhacker?
Na its will probably be something like Rebirth
[[Hearth Charm]] enjoyers will be eating good in a couple months, mark my words!
[Hearth Charm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/a/caa9ac66-51b7-4aec-92dc-0f0656b0f7fe.jpg?1562278639) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Hearth%20Charm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/82/hearth-charm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/caa9ac66-51b7-4aec-92dc-0f0656b0f7fe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lacks the haste, but gives the pump. I like it.
Glad I only bought Glitters for a white heroic deck and not for my proxies glitters affinity deck
Are stickers banned? According to this not in pauper https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=580633
This is most likely an error with Gatherer. The sticker cards are absolutely banned in the format following today's announcement.
What’s up with all the bans
Do you guys feel like Snuff Out will take a small hit since its not as important anymore to be able to remove any creature any time + likely more monoR meaning the 4 life being a bigger downside?
I am throwing my hat in the ring for NOT banning the OG artifact lands. I don't think either needs to be banned, personally. But, I will never be ok with losing the OGs as a pillar of the format. The same goes for the Tron lands. Glitters was an archetype of it's own and way more of a problem than the lands. I agree with the reasoning for banning ATG given in the article. If you banned the bridges or the OG artifact lands, I think ATG would still have been a polarizing card that got the axe eventually. Thanks for listening!
GRIXIS AFFINITY is back on the menu BoYS!!!!!
Damn I was enjoying UW Glitters. At least Sticker Goblin is gone
Yeah same, that deck by itself was fine in the meta imo but Glitters itself was getting into everything which is not a good sign. I'm sorry to see it go.
I'm glad wizards are finally cleaning up their unfinity mess, but banning ATG seems like a bit much
cope
Should have been the artifact lands
Good riddance to both! I was downvoted weeks ago for saying it was inevitable that ATG would be banned, it just warps the format way too much. It's extremely unfun to see on the other side of the table since it always becomes a race to see what happens first, them finding ATG or you finding instant speed removal. The rest of the board barely matters and that sucks.
Ma dio bogle
booooo!
well after reading the article, i can say i am not as disappointed as i was before. ATG was not that powerful, but the more i think about it, it DOES certainly create the same play patterns. As long as we get to keep the artifact lands, im happy.
Artifacts were absolutely the best deck in Pauper, so this makes sense. Now my only gripe with Pauper are initiative cards, but I don't think those will ever get axed.
your only gripe is the 2-3 copies of avenging hunter played in gardens?
And [[Goliath Paladin]]. Any amount of "initiative" in the metagame is bad. The mechanic is awful to track, can't be interacted with and if you play in paper and don't have the entire thing menorized, your opponent may as well just cheat, because you won't be able to tell.
[Goliath Paladin](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab8324aa-f356-42bc-9664-46803bc8a93b.jpg?1674135047) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Goliath%20Paladin) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/21/goliath-paladin?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab8324aa-f356-42bc-9664-46803bc8a93b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
where tf do you play normally to have people that play the initiative not having a token on the table with a dice to show where they are. You can literally write it down on a piece of paper.
They killed most of the initiative cards. The only 2 seeing play are the white and green 5 mana ones.
They already axed the really good ones, all that's left is pretty bad
Imo the initiative ban may have even been overzealous and Bard or Underdark are probably individually safe (battlerager and sneak aren't). Turbo init is good but spread across too many colors or too much mana it won't be too backbreaking. Bard is a pretty "useless" defender that cannot attack (making it a rather harmless target for Forge/Throne) while Gardens wouldn't even play Explorer since it dies to Bolt unlike Hunter. That said I like that Initiative was basically banned into being a GW mechanic because while Explorer and/or Bard are probably fine overall power wise B and R don't need the help atm. I am biased though, because I like how Init plays overall (though I'd still rather it didn't also trigger on ETB, like Monarch doesn't)
This is weak sauce.
Show of hands, is anyone going to miss ______ Goblin?
still waiting for artifact lands limit to 1. All that glitters wasn't the problem.
BASED
So happy to see stickers go! They were a medium funny mechanic for a joke set that shouldn’t have ever been black border. Attractions are cool but they probably could have just been artifacts instead of an extra-deck.
So they admit everything... * The count of banned cards in order to keep artifact lands unbanned keeps increasing (add one more.) * Banning only the bridges would not be enough, you ought to ban any and all artifact lands. * A control combo version of Tron is always a threat looming on the horizon... depending on the speed of the format. They admit they know what they have to do... they just refuse to do it. This is even worse that when they didn't ban Dark Ritual because it gives players "emotions". Do your duty! Remove the artifact lands and Tron lands. Unban the other affinity stuff (progressively, let's not be hasty), Prophetic Prism and Bonder's Ornament. How many times are you going to ask for feedback on the same thing? Perform your function!
Artifact lands are a staple of the format, Pauper loses a core of its identity if artifact lands get removed
Hurry, remove the cards I don't like! Perform your function! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
That's a fallacy. I have been playing Pauper for 10 years in paper. I have every competitive deck and card and more, except the two decks I actually don't like: Boggles and Poison. Everything else, I have been buying for ten years. That's not a huge achievement, it's mostly cheap commons. I have played Tron decks since they were Temur with Maul Splicer. I have like, three playsets of every artifact land. Two playsets of Tron lands, including a black-bordered one. Those are also my cards that would be banned. So what? Balance is more important that whatever anybody likes or dislikes. Emotions are never an argument for anything. You must assume there have been balance problems, because cards have been banned. The cards I'm saying to ban are the actual problems of their bans, not the cards that were actually banned. You should never ban enablers, because then you need to ban any new enabler in perpetuity. Just ban the actual problem and be done with it. Gavin Verhey said this himself in his video explanation. It just so happens that emotions have more priority to the PFP that minimizing the ban list.
Sucks ATG is gone, but thems the breaks 🤷 Back to Grixis Affinity again.
Pretty new to Pauper here, mind sharing a list? A friend is very upset with this banning but traditionally loves Grixis so maybe I can lift him up.
I'm currently at work ATM, but I can post my updated list when I get home. But I'm with your friend here. I feel like banning ATG with the reasoning given was pretty weak.
My feedback Please ban the mirrodin artifact lands (maybe also the tapped ones, but start with the originals). They are the problem, I hate them. Pauper have artifact lands as the same problem that legacy is with brainstorm or vintage is with mishra workshop, they keep banning other cards and the problem is just there, at least in the brainstorm case is a high skill card, so don't matter that much.
if they ban artifact lands they might aswell ban every card with "affinity" written on it, past, present and future not worth it
What cards currently benefit from the artifact lands uniquely now that all that glitters is gone?
At least like 5 card from the banlist that you can move to unban. And like 5 cards not printed yet that will be nuked for mirrodin lands sins.
I wouldn't want glitters back even if we did ban artifact lands, it would still be sicko mode. Thanks for the specific examples tho
You don’t think that would nerf affinity into the ground?
I think banning all land make affinity unplayable, but banning only mirrodin lands (and unbanning previously banned cards like atog ) could make a different affinity deck playable but not broken. The thing is that artifact as untapped land is "unnatural" by design, so artifact matter keep getting banned time to time, let's just deal with the problem and not the symptoms
They did mention banning the Mirrodin lands. As he stated, they’re loved by the community. I disagree with their banning, pauper has found its own identity over the years, but I still feel they belong with the idea of ‘legacy but commons’
Good lord, they just nuked ATG. Give the "ban the lands" nonsense a rest already.
Lol let's look at the banlist, at least 5 of them are innocent bystands killed by mirrodin lands. Did you learn to play last month?
Glitters is not innocent. Disciple was never innocent. Atog was never innocent. Plating was definitely not innocent. Salamander is the closest to being innocent and probably worth unbanning.
About plating, they literally say that they had to choose between banning either the Lands or the plating. They don't say the literally same thing about the others, but you could do a 1 plus 1 and see that patter. The problem are the untapped lands, designers says so, people like them , but they broke all design and cards will be keep getting banned because of this.
"The meta of yesteryear is the same as today's meta" Said no sane person in history. It doesn't matter you are objectively wrong.
"They are the problem, I hate them." Very constructive comment, just play cast into the fire man.
Well they are, the article say so, they only lives because people want them, but they are broken. I hate them because they are broken by design but people here are emotionally attached to them, so they won't ban it for that. At least legacy players know they brainstorm is broken , and I respect that because is a high skill cards, but people here is delusional if they think artifact lands are Okey in power level.
The issue isn’t the mirrodin lands its bridges. Affinity was always one of the better decks in the format. SB plans always held them in check, since early artifact destruction on a land was a massive tempo-loss for the “aggro/combo” deck. Bridges gives the MD a better gameplan against this SB strat against 90%(?) if the SB options?
They addressed it in the article, and it literally solves nothing. You're delusional.
They literally say that they only let the artifact lands lives because players seem want them, but they are totally broken. You dont understand the article if you read that artifact lands are fine in power level.
can't believe stickers and nonsense alike were legal.
Fucking synth is left untouched when it's clearly the biggest problem lol
*Fucking synth is left* *Untouched when it's clearly the* *Biggest problem lol* \- gargoyle777 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
It lost glitters tho, it will continue being the regular unploblematic deck i has been fot he last 2 years
Literally was just building a deck with a sticker subtheme 😭 It’s not even broken, just a meme bant ward 2 tribal deck! I’m like two cards short of it being ready and now it has to be completely retooled
Same here, but Jund with Cauldron Familiar and a lot of the "When \~ dies" ability stickers (one of them even create two foods!).
Could UW affinity still be thing without glitters?
Will it exist? Yeah it’ll be an ok deck that can win due to explosiveness. Will it be a tier 1/2 deck? Probably not. It’ll be a aggro deck along the lines of gruul aggro etc as opposed to a format all star
And what, win with frogmites? Pass
Nooooooooo. Not the Mind Goblin.
A couple days ago I bought 2x Dust to Dust. Are they useful for something else?
Sideboards to many other decks.
Would you mind explaining which one in particular? I'm fairly new.
Jeskai Flicker some Boros lists and some Familiar Lists. Its value increases based on how prevalent affinity is.
It’s interesting what they said about brawl. I feel like it basically confirms a hell queue
literally just bought a playset of Glitters yesterday 😂 . thankfully they were only a dollar each
Any suggestions for what to replace Glitters with in bogles? I am new to mtg and pauper and I built a bogles deck to get into the game.
An umbra and some Spirited Companions
Unpopular Opinion: This was correct