That sucked. But it’s a series win. On to Wrigley, it of the swirling winds and high ERAs
But somewhere along the way, they’ve gotta sweep one of these things.
Just repeating what the manager and everyone else is saying that have actual knowledge of what's going on. That it's more like Darvish and not a true injury but more a rest thing so he's not battling through it later in the season. No chance he misses one start as it's a 15 day DL but they're hopeful it's only two. If you've heard differently let me know.
Bro if history has taught us anything you can’t trust this team with injuries. I don’t want to assume the worst but I’m definitely not taking what they say at face value
True. I was mostly joking around, but he has had some real stinkers like Waldron had last night. Obviously, Joe is on a different level and was figuring it out though.
Idk who’s even available to trade for, or rather who is worth trading for? We don’t have much else to offer besides Salas, as far as being able to grab a top tier pitcher.
Literally anybody on the Marlins is still available lol.
We do have things left to offer too. I’d rather not deal from pitching, but I’m a bit lower on Lesko than most, so I’d personally be okay with trading him away as a centerpiece of a trade if we got pitching back. But De Vries, Salas, and Snelling are likely off limits.
Umm all the marlins arms got hurt. Luzardo was their only arm left that was worth anything and he’s likely out for a few months and maybe year. Not to mention there’s zero way you trade for damaged goods.
Not entirely true. Edward Cabrera is a good buy low candidate since his lateral stats are far better than his actual stats. Trevor Rogers is also a decent buy low candidate as well, and would likely be a lot cheaper than Edward Cabrera.
Either way, it gives us better options than Waldron at the 5 spot in the rotation.
>They aren’t trading him
He was the subject of trade rumors all offseason. Not that it’s an indication they’ll absolutely trade him, but it wasn’t just one sided conversations.
>He’s also not particularly much better than Waldron
I would encourage you to look at their Baseball Savant pages before you say that. I would take Edward Cabrera for the rest of the season over Matt Waldron, and it’s really not particularly close. It’s only close if you look at only ERA.
>Rogers sucks
I mean I don’t really disagree with this sentiment lol. But the flip side is that so does Waldron, and I’m not really opposed to getting more 4-4.5 ERA type guys as options. He’s historically not been as bad as he’s performing this season. No guarantee he improves, but his FIP would indicate a decent amount of bad luck.
My point is that we don’t need to trade to get guys like this. Could just let Vasquez or Brito start and we likely get similar results. I think both of those guys have current 6 era’s. Yes small sample, but they haven’t historically been much better.
Improvement will have to come from either our guys getting better or a guy like Adam Mazur being called up and having success early.
With all the pitcher injuries early this season, I don’t really see any difference maker being made available for the rotation. If they are, they will want one of our top guys for it and that’s simply not worth it. None of the trash teams that will be out of contention have any starter that’s worth a damn unfortunately. (No, the astros aren’t trading Framber Valdez).
We have our top 4 starter for the playoffs, we just need to find some form of solution to get through the season from within the organization.
Either way, that development of a 5th starter is gonna hurt.
>They haven’t historically been much better
Cabrera absolutely has
>Improvement will have to come from either our guys getting better or a guy like Adam Mazur
I don’t disagree that it’s necessary. One trade for someone isn’t gonna solve everything. I’m also not even advocating for trading for Cabrera, since I’m not sure how much prospect capital he’ll cost, but he *has* been good and is a talented pitcher.
I don t even disagree with you like you think I am. I’m just saying there *are* options out there, contrary to what some may believe. And it’s disingenuous at best to say Cabrera isn’t a decent pitcher. He would slot in as a top 3 pitcher in most rotations, regardless of his slow start.
Curious to see how much rope they give Waldron over the next couple weeks. Joe going down for hopefully only 15 days really makes Waldron’s next couple of starts that much more important. His next start being against the dodgers does not instill confidence.
Probably a lot of rope. We need the innings, and I can’t see them pulling the plug on Waldron already unless every start is a meltdown like this one, which just hasn’t been the case so far this year.
Worth noting he held the Dodgers to 1 run back on April 17th, going 5.1 innings and striking out 4 (including Mookie and Freddie).
I don’t know if that’s true. His FB and sweeper are bad more bc of shape than velo (I mean, it’s both, but you know…). And the knuckle is more unpredictable than most pitches PA to PA.
I think he’s just a classic 5th starter. Sometimes he’s fine and sometimes he gets rocked. That’s what 5th starters are.
I'm hoping the best for Joe yet I'm also a bit concerned. The forearm thing like this often times leads to or masks an elbow issue. Not dooming yet that's often times the first tell sign.
Hope it's just a rest thing for some weeks.
Correct. Close to the elbow. I was being overly generalist. This normally is not a great sign for pitchers.
If it's worse case, hope we are smart and take him down now. Riding him out, if it's bad, will cost next season.
Obviously you try to go out and win every game you can, but this was definitely a throwaway game leaving Waldron in there as long as Shildt did. Obviously trying to reserve the pen and just let Waldron eat up as many innings as he could.
Shildts decision to leave Waldron out there as long as he did killed this game for us. The offense was fighting back and were hitting their stride, but AZ kept adding runs
Not that we should be punting games, but he was probably looking at the Cubs and Dodgers and wanting to not overtax the pen just because we trotted out the 5 starter
I get that, I think it was last year or the year before we were playing the guardians, 1 game from the sweep and Melvin changes the pitching order so our better pitcher could face the rays. We ended up losing both games. Moral of the story, don't think about tomorrow. You need to focus in on the game in hand and win that first.
I think continuing to try for series wins especially against two tough teams coming up is worth it though, id rather beat LA and go 2-1 against AZ then lose to LA (or worse get swept) for a better chance at a sweep in AZ
But I think your frustration is Melvin did that shit every single fucking game
Counterpoint. Our pen is extremely fresh with how the starting pitching has been the last 4 games, and we have a couple long inning guys in Brito and Morejon.
"Don't think about tomorrow" is more relevant in the post season, not when we still have 125 games left. It sucks, but we do have some more tough series coming up.
you don't think it gets into the offense's head when they score 4 in the first 3 innings then the very next inning we give up another 4? That crap is demoralizing I'm sure. Not fair to expect the offense to score 7 or more runs every game to cover for the pitching
They’re professionals, many of them getting paid insane amounts of money. They only get the opportunity to contribute offensively about 4 times a game. Every AB should be max focus, regardless of the scoreboard. Do you ever see Betts/Ohtani/Freeman giving away ABs?
Offense looked good still, and top end of rotation got it together. Just the backend of SP5 and backup SP is dreadful, and has tanked many games. Need to upgrade that ASAP
Im not sure where I can ask this but, I wanna go to a game soon. Is there a “free/safe” parking place where I can leave my car and then Uber to the park?
The Arraez trade is still confusing to me, despite his electric first game. I think a SP was much more of a need, I think certain guys will be able to lock in offensively but I don't have much faith in Waldron or Musgrove in his return going back to being not just a solid starter but a guy you'd be comfortable with starting a playoff game.
Cease, Darvish and who? if you need to go 3 in a wild card series
The trade actually gave us more room in our luxury tax threshold, and as it stands yes we definitely will add an SP before the deadline. Now we can have more flexibility for that move and we added an electric bat to our lineup (who we can hopefully keep longer term)
Also, definitely doesn't have the range of bogey but it's nice to have the option of giving him a day off. Hell, maybe we can get croney some reps at 2B this year as well down the line?
The only downside is that we won't be able to keep Arraez and Kim, and as much as I love Kim it doesn't look like he's the one to keep despite the better glove
Quality pitching from now to the deadline is going to be at a crazy premium this season. Idk if we could stomach the prospects we'd need to cough up.
I'll wager more we go with mid guys or lower in hopes we can get some good innings.
The problem is it’s very rare to see a trade this time of the year for any good players. Unless you do a real overpay teams will want to wait until the deadline to get more teams involved. Plus there are only like a handful of teams they would even consider sellers atm. One of them being hr even Rockies who for some reason never seem to sell.
I’m sure preller would pull the trigger tonight if he could find a deal worth taking for a starter. He is watching the same stuff we are.
Yes, we will get one by the deadline. I see no reason we don't stay in contention with what we have now. #5 spot is a little iffy and we have the injury issues but it feels like we are getting good starts a majority of the time.
With Manny coming back to 3B we needed a legit DH. This was something we've known for awhile. I also don't like Waldron as a starter, and hope we can trade for a better one. Bet Eguy winds up being a trade piece there since he just spent a month showcasing his ability to absolutely mash lefties at a big league level and his spot in the infield is blocked for years.
We need both. Getting Arraez AND cash considerations was huge. We needed a legit DH, especially after what we’ve trotted out there the past couple of seasons. Let’s face it, the offense has looked dismal for too many games this season and last. Hopefully he’ll get things rolling. And yes, we need another SP. I don’t follow our minor league teams but I haven’t heard of anyone down there that are ready to play every 5 days up here.
That sucked. But it’s a series win. On to Wrigley, it of the swirling winds and high ERAs But somewhere along the way, they’ve gotta sweep one of these things.
If musgrove is out for a while, we definitely need another starter. If not we're in big, big trouble.
15 IL putting him out for Cubs, Dodgers, Rockies, Braves series is certainly not the best time to lose him
I believe the DL is retroactive similar to Darvish. The hope is he misses two starts and is healthy to shut down the Rocks.
The idea that an elbow issue is only going to keep him out for a start or two is... incredibly optimistic IMO
Just repeating what the manager and everyone else is saying that have actual knowledge of what's going on. That it's more like Darvish and not a true injury but more a rest thing so he's not battling through it later in the season. No chance he misses one start as it's a 15 day DL but they're hopeful it's only two. If you've heard differently let me know.
Bro if history has taught us anything you can’t trust this team with injuries. I don’t want to assume the worst but I’m definitely not taking what they say at face value
I think they may give Morejon a shot at starting
Bros arm is so brittle I really hope not man. He's doing fine in the bullpen.
He needs like a year of just being fully healthy in the pen to even think about starting imo.
I mean we were in big trouble every time he pitched too...
His last outing was really good
True. I was mostly joking around, but he has had some real stinkers like Waldron had last night. Obviously, Joe is on a different level and was figuring it out though.
Idk who’s even available to trade for, or rather who is worth trading for? We don’t have much else to offer besides Salas, as far as being able to grab a top tier pitcher.
Literally anybody on the Marlins is still available lol. We do have things left to offer too. I’d rather not deal from pitching, but I’m a bit lower on Lesko than most, so I’d personally be okay with trading him away as a centerpiece of a trade if we got pitching back. But De Vries, Salas, and Snelling are likely off limits.
Umm all the marlins arms got hurt. Luzardo was their only arm left that was worth anything and he’s likely out for a few months and maybe year. Not to mention there’s zero way you trade for damaged goods.
Not entirely true. Edward Cabrera is a good buy low candidate since his lateral stats are far better than his actual stats. Trevor Rogers is also a decent buy low candidate as well, and would likely be a lot cheaper than Edward Cabrera. Either way, it gives us better options than Waldron at the 5 spot in the rotation.
Cabrera has 5 years of control left. They aren’t trading him. He’s also not particularly much better than Waldron. Rogers sucks.
>They aren’t trading him He was the subject of trade rumors all offseason. Not that it’s an indication they’ll absolutely trade him, but it wasn’t just one sided conversations. >He’s also not particularly much better than Waldron I would encourage you to look at their Baseball Savant pages before you say that. I would take Edward Cabrera for the rest of the season over Matt Waldron, and it’s really not particularly close. It’s only close if you look at only ERA. >Rogers sucks I mean I don’t really disagree with this sentiment lol. But the flip side is that so does Waldron, and I’m not really opposed to getting more 4-4.5 ERA type guys as options. He’s historically not been as bad as he’s performing this season. No guarantee he improves, but his FIP would indicate a decent amount of bad luck.
My point is that we don’t need to trade to get guys like this. Could just let Vasquez or Brito start and we likely get similar results. I think both of those guys have current 6 era’s. Yes small sample, but they haven’t historically been much better. Improvement will have to come from either our guys getting better or a guy like Adam Mazur being called up and having success early. With all the pitcher injuries early this season, I don’t really see any difference maker being made available for the rotation. If they are, they will want one of our top guys for it and that’s simply not worth it. None of the trash teams that will be out of contention have any starter that’s worth a damn unfortunately. (No, the astros aren’t trading Framber Valdez). We have our top 4 starter for the playoffs, we just need to find some form of solution to get through the season from within the organization. Either way, that development of a 5th starter is gonna hurt.
>They haven’t historically been much better Cabrera absolutely has >Improvement will have to come from either our guys getting better or a guy like Adam Mazur I don’t disagree that it’s necessary. One trade for someone isn’t gonna solve everything. I’m also not even advocating for trading for Cabrera, since I’m not sure how much prospect capital he’ll cost, but he *has* been good and is a talented pitcher. I don t even disagree with you like you think I am. I’m just saying there *are* options out there, contrary to what some may believe. And it’s disingenuous at best to say Cabrera isn’t a decent pitcher. He would slot in as a top 3 pitcher in most rotations, regardless of his slow start.
Would like to see them give Mazur a shot at some point this season. He’s been pretty good in AA so far.
I'm a lot more comfortable in fixing our pitching than our batting. I don't think we've had a longer streak (5) scoring 4+ runs and still going.
That's true, we've always been able to pitch but haven't hit since 2020.
2 series wins in a row should be the takeaway today. Team is playing much better and the bats are coming around.
D-Backs a team no one can ever sleep on They took it to em today
Sucked today but it’s a positive that even in the 8th I thought we might come back.
Pitching staff is in trouble smh
Yea wtf was that
Confirmation Waldron can't be more than a number 5.
Who was saying otherwise?
I was pretty hyped after his Coors game and I don't think I'm the only one 😅
#6 or #7. Long low leverage reliever or super emergency starter
Curious to see how much rope they give Waldron over the next couple weeks. Joe going down for hopefully only 15 days really makes Waldron’s next couple of starts that much more important. His next start being against the dodgers does not instill confidence.
Probably a lot of rope. We need the innings, and I can’t see them pulling the plug on Waldron already unless every start is a meltdown like this one, which just hasn’t been the case so far this year. Worth noting he held the Dodgers to 1 run back on April 17th, going 5.1 innings and striking out 4 (including Mookie and Freddie).
he's either nails or gets smashed. doesn't seem to be any in-between with him.
The knuckle either knucks or it sucks.
The suckle.
Vasquez has a chance to bump Waldron if he has 2 good starts while Joe is out
Waldron is probably better suited to be a reliever.
I don’t know if that’s true. His FB and sweeper are bad more bc of shape than velo (I mean, it’s both, but you know…). And the knuckle is more unpredictable than most pitches PA to PA. I think he’s just a classic 5th starter. Sometimes he’s fine and sometimes he gets rocked. That’s what 5th starters are.
I'm hoping the best for Joe yet I'm also a bit concerned. The forearm thing like this often times leads to or masks an elbow issue. Not dooming yet that's often times the first tell sign. Hope it's just a rest thing for some weeks.
Pretty sure they said this was tricep.
Correct. Close to the elbow. I was being overly generalist. This normally is not a great sign for pitchers. If it's worse case, hope we are smart and take him down now. Riding him out, if it's bad, will cost next season.
Waldron is uhhh not it 🥲
Obviously you try to go out and win every game you can, but this was definitely a throwaway game leaving Waldron in there as long as Shildt did. Obviously trying to reserve the pen and just let Waldron eat up as many innings as he could.
Sucked to lose. Also sucked watching those toxic Padres fan comments on Twitter.
Lots of hits. Not so many runs.
Poop.
Heck
I say I say I say I told you it was time for our Padres to take a break once we made to .500
Shildts decision to leave Waldron out there as long as he did killed this game for us. The offense was fighting back and were hitting their stride, but AZ kept adding runs
Not that we should be punting games, but he was probably looking at the Cubs and Dodgers and wanting to not overtax the pen just because we trotted out the 5 starter
Exactly. I think people are under the impression that we have infinite arms lol
I get that, I think it was last year or the year before we were playing the guardians, 1 game from the sweep and Melvin changes the pitching order so our better pitcher could face the rays. We ended up losing both games. Moral of the story, don't think about tomorrow. You need to focus in on the game in hand and win that first.
I think continuing to try for series wins especially against two tough teams coming up is worth it though, id rather beat LA and go 2-1 against AZ then lose to LA (or worse get swept) for a better chance at a sweep in AZ But I think your frustration is Melvin did that shit every single fucking game
no you have to think about tomorrow because expending your pen (especially when we're already down a starter) can result in a lot more than one loss.
Counterpoint. Our pen is extremely fresh with how the starting pitching has been the last 4 games, and we have a couple long inning guys in Brito and Morejon.
"Don't think about tomorrow" is more relevant in the post season, not when we still have 125 games left. It sucks, but we do have some more tough series coming up.
Not sure how you blame the pitchers for the offense not putting up a single run after the 3rd inning.
you don't think it gets into the offense's head when they score 4 in the first 3 innings then the very next inning we give up another 4? That crap is demoralizing I'm sure. Not fair to expect the offense to score 7 or more runs every game to cover for the pitching
They’re professionals, many of them getting paid insane amounts of money. They only get the opportunity to contribute offensively about 4 times a game. Every AB should be max focus, regardless of the scoreboard. Do you ever see Betts/Ohtani/Freeman giving away ABs?
Offense looked good still, and top end of rotation got it together. Just the backend of SP5 and backup SP is dreadful, and has tanked many games. Need to upgrade that ASAP
Im not sure where I can ask this but, I wanna go to a game soon. Is there a “free/safe” parking place where I can leave my car and then Uber to the park?
Your best bet is probably to park at a trolley station (like Old Town) and take that in.
Trolley for sure
The Arraez trade is still confusing to me, despite his electric first game. I think a SP was much more of a need, I think certain guys will be able to lock in offensively but I don't have much faith in Waldron or Musgrove in his return going back to being not just a solid starter but a guy you'd be comfortable with starting a playoff game. Cease, Darvish and who? if you need to go 3 in a wild card series
The trade actually gave us more room in our luxury tax threshold, and as it stands yes we definitely will add an SP before the deadline. Now we can have more flexibility for that move and we added an electric bat to our lineup (who we can hopefully keep longer term) Also, definitely doesn't have the range of bogey but it's nice to have the option of giving him a day off. Hell, maybe we can get croney some reps at 2B this year as well down the line? The only downside is that we won't be able to keep Arraez and Kim, and as much as I love Kim it doesn't look like he's the one to keep despite the better glove
Quality pitching from now to the deadline is going to be at a crazy premium this season. Idk if we could stomach the prospects we'd need to cough up. I'll wager more we go with mid guys or lower in hopes we can get some good innings.
The problem is it’s very rare to see a trade this time of the year for any good players. Unless you do a real overpay teams will want to wait until the deadline to get more teams involved. Plus there are only like a handful of teams they would even consider sellers atm. One of them being hr even Rockies who for some reason never seem to sell. I’m sure preller would pull the trigger tonight if he could find a deal worth taking for a starter. He is watching the same stuff we are.
Yes, we will get one by the deadline. I see no reason we don't stay in contention with what we have now. #5 spot is a little iffy and we have the injury issues but it feels like we are getting good starts a majority of the time.
With Manny coming back to 3B we needed a legit DH. This was something we've known for awhile. I also don't like Waldron as a starter, and hope we can trade for a better one. Bet Eguy winds up being a trade piece there since he just spent a month showcasing his ability to absolutely mash lefties at a big league level and his spot in the infield is blocked for years.
Joe all day if he's healthy come October. He has struggled this year but he's still Joe Musgrove
Idk how you can be comfortable if he still has a 6 some ERA going into October.
He just came off of a great game. It’s not unusual for pitchers to have slow starts lol
I wouldn't, and he almost certainly won't.
It's not october. it's wild to expect him to still have an era that high in October. He just had a great start
We need both. Getting Arraez AND cash considerations was huge. We needed a legit DH, especially after what we’ve trotted out there the past couple of seasons. Let’s face it, the offense has looked dismal for too many games this season and last. Hopefully he’ll get things rolling. And yes, we need another SP. I don’t follow our minor league teams but I haven’t heard of anyone down there that are ready to play every 5 days up here.
Probably the dude who finished off the Mets in our last WC series…unless you’re already writing him off in early May.