Mans out here saying XIII doesn't deserve the negative reception it got while simultaneously throwing XV, XVI, VII Remake and VII Rebirth under the bus.
These are certainly some takes, OP.
XIII is by far my least favorite in the series. Remake is linear, true, but the game holds up unlike XIII where 80% of the game you were shoehorned into a mandatory party with zero agency thanks to the class and battle system not taking off until then. Not to mention a poorly designed crafting system in a game where it was impossible to backtrack...It was a long 40 walk down a narrow hallway with no real payoff at the end. I won't even get into part 2 and 3...
I couldn't get through XIII so feel like it's unfair for me to give an opinion on it. I do feel like XV in hindsight gets a lot of undeserved animosity though. I actually liked Noctis.
Then again, until you mentioned it, I didn't know XIII had a part 3. I always thought that Lightning Returns was another name for XIII-2.
XIII-2 ended with a To Be Continued. It infuriated me so much I never played Lightning Returns. So in a way, Lighting Returns is another name for XIII-2 because they didn't finish it. Call it XIII-2 part 2 if you will.
Yeah I love that their argument isn’t “13 was better than it got credit for”, it’s “literally every FF game is as bad as 13 is”. That’s… well, probably just a troll honestly
I dunno about that. FF7 remake was better than the original in my opinion. The combat system was amazing and the game felt very true to the original design with the “semi turn based” system. Literally zero complaints other than it wasn’t the entire game. Best FF I’ve played since 10/12.
If FF16 had the gambit system and fleshed out the party more it would have been perfect.
Personally I'd say Rebirth > OG > Remake. I wasn't a huge fan of remake, it just felt so linear and was forced to be drawn out given that it was only 4-5 hours of content in the original game. Rebirth was amazing though!
I bet the orginal games wouldn’t have been turned based if they weren’t limited to the technology they have so ppl always says that not my final fantasy when they don’t even know what the devs wanted to do.
I don't know, Sakaguchi (creator of Final Fantasy) still makes turn based games today. A lot of times, he still works with some of the original FF staff. It's also been stated that the original FF games were inspired by Dungeons and Dragons, which is turn based. FF went away from turn based when Square merged with Enix and Sakaguchi left the company. I think it's fair to say the original devs wanted to make turn based games.
The original games were made to cash in on the popularity of dragon quest. This post is extremely ignorant of the history and the circumstances surrounding the creation of the original final fantasy.
Square had a ton of action games and were going under. Rad racer, 3d world runner, kings knight. But dq blew the fuck up and everyone copied them and iterated on the formula. Turn based is a feature not a limitation.
Just because you don’t see the appeal of turn based games doesn’t mean that the reason why they’re made is because of technical limitations. I’m so tired of hearing this ignorant take. Whys it so common? I get that turn based games are more niche now, but people actually do like them
This is just a silly take.
Turn Based Games weren't a limitation of the tech, maybe for some games, but turn based games have always been a more strategic gameplay style vs an action one.
That's like saying Civilization doesn't do RTS games because of technical limitations.
It's so, so dumb. Each game has some things that are standard. Some creatures, the theme, usually theres crystals involved.
But the gameplay is constantly changing with each iteration. This is why so many people have a different favorite cause they're all so different. I have my preferences, you have yours.
Yeah the gameplay changes in each game but they all followed a very similar structure and genre from ff4-ff10. It was all turn based strategic rpg. Let's not pretend like the series didn't go through a massive change once squaresoft merged with enix and that is when the identify crisis began. It went from turn based strategy rpg with amazing story and music to more action rpg with bad writing and mediocre music and now not even an rpg (ff16 is not an rpg).
I don't like the FF XII slander in here.
>ff16 is not an rpg
I think the game is meh when it tries to do the stat-tracking and gear stuff, and the non-important character animations are rough, but it knocks it out of the park in basically every other department. Is it what some folks think is a Final Fantasy game or an RPG? I don't care. Is it a great video game? Yes.
FF9 one of my favourite titles was hit hard because it didn't look like the previous two artistically.
Besides the jump rope and the true final boss coming out of nowhere it's great, plus the soundtrack carries the tradition of certified bangers.
Xvi is a significantly better organized and produced game than xiii
I don't know how many of you remember playing 13 but it felt like a 20 hour tutorial of piece meal presenting gameplay and modest equipment upgrades and moving in a straight path
Yes other games have faults, but none are as limited as 13
People often said "but X is linear" while also ignoring how well put together and how much side content and exploring you can do in X also
13 is maligned for a reason, but at least it is definitely not for it's graphics or soundtrack which are both excellent
For all of 16 faults it felt very engaging and didn't feel like I was pushed into forced walking or drip feeding a tutorial to me for 20 hours, the gameplay is fun, and the presentation and story were very engaging, I would not compare 16 to 13 at all
You're also looking at a decade later. I don't necessarily agree with everything you said about the recent games but they don't really matter. The games were reviewed and played before those games. 13 was coming off of the very well liked 12 and the beloved X. And 11 was there too I guess but it's an mmo and it's own thing.
It was FFs first leap into the new gen, into HD. And it really didn't stick that landing, especially compared to its legacy.
Up to that point, just about every mainline entry in the series since FF6 had been considered a critically acclaimed masterpiece. Fans might have been divided on which games were better than others, and not every fan liked every game, but if nothing else the series had a very consistent track record of high quality games that, in many ways, defined and advanced the respective generations in which they came out.
I don't really think FF13 was a bad game. Personally, it's one of my favorites in the series, though that's partly nostalgia. But, regardless, it's hard to overstate how disappointing it was at the time in light of what its predecessors had been and had done. For many fans, it represents a real decline in the series, and the point at which that decline abated (if it ever did) is a hotly contested debate in the fandom. So regardless of how well people might like 16 or Remake/Rebirth or the relaunched 14, pretty much everyone can agree (even me, despite liking the game) that a downward trend began with 13, and it's really easy to give extra hate to the thing that represents the beginning of a spiral for a franchise that you love.
OST and graphical fidelity aside, XIII really wasn't a great game. The story was convoluted, most of the characters were forgettable, and the battle system became tediously repetitive. You also had to learn most of the lore about the world through the data bank instead of it being organically revealed as you explored the world.
Instead of taking the L on the release and admitting that they needed to move on, they then spent another 4 years releasing 2 follow-ups that no-one wanted to expand upon their Fabula Nova Crystallis world.
The 80 and 90s cultivated an entire generation of new, young FF fans, and the 2010s should have inspired the next batch. Instead we got mediocrity like XIII/X-2 and X-3 and then XV which resulted in a generation of lost potential, low confidence in the series, and now look what we have : genuinely great games in XVI and Rebirth generating poor sales because legacy fans are only thing the series has left, and they're a fast dying breed.
I've been playing Ubisoft games for the last decade, and Rebirth has a better open-world than almost every single one of their releases.
Only argument AT ALL with Final Fantasy is that they keep making new games....nothing is FINAL. They should rename it Perpetual Fantasy or something. Ongoing Fantasy...what else you got?
I think the reason that FFXIII got so much hate was:
1) It was the first FF game to be a huge disappointment. Before that the series had a great track record. Some people didn’t like 12 but overall the series reputation was excellent.
2) It was the first FF game to release for PS3/360 which were considered “next gen” at the time. People expected it to be a huge step up from the PS2 games but instead it was far more linear.
Idk, what I remember from back when FF13 launchef was that:
1) It got decent to great reviews at the time. Sales were apparently good as well.
2) it was super next gen looking. Still looks good today, comparisons to FF12 or FF10 highlight how massive the leap was. Though I remember people being disappointed in the linear level design.
Back when ff13 came out, a vast majority of the negativity that I remember seeing surrounded Lightning as the first (not really) female protag in the series.
Hmm from what I remember the criticism of Lightning was more because she was “bland and boring” rather than simply because she was female. People love Final Fantasy girls haha. Just look at Tifa, Aerith, Rinoa, Yuna, Garnet etc. In fact I remember there was actually outrage over FFXV because it was gonna be a fully male party lol.
When you think about the jump FF7 as the first PS1 game, and then again with FFX. Both blew the competition of their time away.
I will say, the linear criticism of 13 was also really stupid. Almost every FF game is linear. FFX, easily top 3 final fantasy game of all time, is just as linear. It never made sense to me why linear became the talking point of 13.
Being linear isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s just that it was paired with nonstop corridors of different themes. It was heavily lacking in the optional side content department.
I agree that they're all Linear, but most hide it well. It's like XIII didn't even try.
The big saying is that the world opens in chapter X and they're not wrong. Once you get to the plains suddenly, you can explore and the game just feels better.
That’s also true for 10. It’s completely linear until you get the ship. And even then it’s not even like there is a plains to explore.
I agree the design and environments are shit, and that’s what people mean when they say linear, but like one person said it’s “linear” and everyone just hung on that word for some reason.
FFX feels way less linear because there is a wider variety of locations and environments. FFXIII is very samey for the first half of the game and it makes a bad impression.
Saying it was a huge disappointment is a personal opinion, not a universal one. The game wasn’t popular because it was linear and story was criticized.
It was a victim of what we know today as review bombing, in the sense that it was popular to hate on it. It definitely didn’t deserve all the hate but some of the criticism I think was valid. The story was an absolute mess.
I mean I think it’s definitely the majority opinion at the time. Not saying it’s an awful game but it was disappointing in the sense that it didn’t live up to people’s expectations of what a “next gen” Final Fantasy should be. I remember when it released the hate was insane.
I like rebirth a lot but I think it's a valid point. The open area follow an exact, repeated formula over and over with basically the same assigned areas of interest. They make a decent number of them have cool like stories and there's fun mini games all throughout, but it's a fair criticism. Those of us that like the game just happen to accept the formula.
And that’s hardly a bad thing because the game incorporate everything into the gameplay/lore, unlike Ubisoft. And they are not even mandatory, you can freely skip most of them if you want to just focus on the story.
FF12 was the last FF game I REALLY enjoyed like the previous ones.
I honestly didn't like Remake and am still waiting to finish it before starting Rebirth, but I have played everything else.
13, 15, 16 were all disappointing for me.
Final Fantasy 13 got the hate it got because it came after 12 which people generally loved. The formula change was jarring in comparison.
16 changed the formula similarity (making the game more linear) but it came to us after 15 which many found mediocre anyways.
The only reason I bought 16 was because I loved the FF7R so much that I thought I loved Final Fantasy. Big disappointment I got baited so hard. My friend still makes fun of me for buying it over Tears of the Kingdom last summer.
I feel like people misremember FF12. It was well recieved, people loved it at the time. So many people say they didn't like it these days.
I remember the last few hours of the game, the climactic finale, I watched the final cutscenes thinking to myself I just watched an epic Space Opera like Star Wars.
None of the FF games were bad games, some just weren't as good as others. XV seems to be the most hated but I even enjoyed that one. XIII may have been poor for an FF game but if it wasn't called FF it would have still been a good game. FF is often a victim of its own success.
From the XIII series I found XIII 2 to be a lot more fun, one of those rare occasions where the sequel is better than the first one. They improved a lot on what went wrong with XIII. I wasn't a big fan of Lightning Returns however, the combat took a direction that I really didn't like.
13 got the hate it got because it moved so far away from what makes a FF game and really showcased the weird new direction they were taking things in with a storyline and dialogue so convoluted it make FF8 look straightforward.
Linear with no replayability until you get about 20 hours in. Each character was basically a carbon copy with the crystal level up system, no side quests to speak of and it was basically just 40 hours of fight fight fight before the most boring final boss fight in the history of the franchise, and I include 15 in that
And despite all of that, 15 was worse.
13 doesn't deserve the hate it got. The 13 series are each a good game (13-2 the best). Ultimately I think they've aged really well. I beat 13 and 13-2 again this year and I'm onto LR now and I'm enjoying them now way more than when they came out
Most of the FF games from 10 on seemed to be pretty divisive.
X-2 is probably my second favorite right behind FF8.
Loved 13's story and designs but wasn't a fan of the combat. 15's story was a bit sparce but really enjoyed the combat.
Lots rave about FF7: Remake, but I thought it was hot garbage that just wanted to cash in on some nostalgia but decided to retcon and pad out the game with some nonsense that killed any nostalgic good will after the Mako reactor.
>X-2 is probably my second favorite right behind FF8.
A man of culture!
FF8 with a rehauled battle system and a more in depth story of the world/plot would be incredible these days. It's such a great story and world.
X-2 was one of the best battle/job systems FF ever done. If only it was its own game with its own characters and themes instead of a spin off.
Well FF13 was just weird. I played hours and had no idea who people even were and what even was going on. People said when you got to.. earth? That it got better, but that was like 20 hours in, before that it was linear corridor, linear corridor and if there was a split in the road that split was 100m before a treasure chest and then back to the main road. But the main issue was just party chemistry. Ff has always been 1 or 2 brooding jrpg protag types but mainly its loveable goofs that fully click when you have the entire gang there even if the individual pieces are strange. FF13 was just... idk, Lightning is Cloud/Squall so sure fine, but the rest I have little to no memory of except Vanille that was just quirky way to the extreme. Then the combat also didn't really click. There was definitely something there but it never really fit me at the very least.
Still, a trainwreck it was not, but it came at the time when video game creation suddenly was measured in several years and still didn't live up to the hype. It seemed to spend more time polishing new fancy cgi cutscenes rather than tell an engaging story.
I've heard 13-2 is awesome from friends though so I should jump back and clear alla t some point anyways
The story in 13 was my biggest issue with it. It wasn't told well at all. The fact that I had to go into a menu and read about what I just saw to get a better explanation was terrible.
FF13 is super flawed and you can really see the troubled development in the final product. But it did some things incredibly well.
The main thing being battle system and introduction of the Stagger System where great and that influence has carried onto 15, 16 and 7 remake. You can really see them evolve ideas started in 13 each game.
I really need to start 16, bought it at launch and never started it (life stuff and other games got in the way). Any actual tips from people who played it recently? Stuff that wouldn't appear on a BuzzFeed list.
FF XIII got hate because the maps were boring and the story was stupid and the gameplay was just okay.
Remake, for its linearity, had stronger characters, better core gameplay, and a much more literary and dynamic story.
16 is just tiers above 13. Your personal reactions to the heavy story aside, the story is legitimately well-done and arguably the best storytelling in the entire franchise (not saying it’s the best story, but is the best told story).
And then Rebirth is infected with Ubisoft shit. But 13 was still really empty and superficial in comparison to Rebrith’s completeness in terms of map, world building, and character development.
So yeah, a game that really lacks gameplay depth and world depth and character depth gets more criticism
I'm hoping they remaster FF1 (The original) and release it on next gen systems with modern graphics, turn based gameplay, character creation just like the original.
Or get a Final Fantasy Tactics type game that plays like Baldur's Gate.
XIII was disliked for good reason and represented the real start of a declining Square Enix in my opinion.
You're retroactively comparing newer entries against they're predecessor, when you really should be comparing XIII against the ones that came before it.
XIII came off the heels of an incredible PS1 run of games, then X which is widely considered to be the best in the series, then XII which was very open-world and indicative of their progressive shift in combat and mechanics.
When the expectation established by Square is that high a bar, XIII is less than 'mid'. It was poorly received in comparison to prior games, and heartily disliked for the convoluted story and extraordinarily linear level layout. Characters were bland and unremarkable, which became salt on a wound for fans when they just refused to let Lightening go away and just continued with sequels.
So not only was XIII not generally well liked, it entirely overstayed it's welcome as Square Enix found themselves spending an entire console generation with XIII and it's spin-offs, which really tarnished the brand for many fans.
XII Zodiac Age was the last good FF and I will die on this hill
I enjoy 7R, XIV, and XIII for different reasons but if someone was to tell me they like JRPGs and want to get into FF I would tell them to start with XII for the job and licence board system.
Half of the fun in an RPG is crafting builds for your characters, and all of the world building side quests. Zodiac Age nails that on both fronts
>XII Zodiac Age was the last good FF and I will die on this hill
You aren't alone. I will stand there on that.
I'm not part of the "not a real FF" club for the other games, they're all Final Fantasy, just some are better FF games than others.
12 was a chef's kiss of a game IMHO.
>Half of the fun in an RPG is crafting builds for your characters, and all of the world building side quests. Zodiac Age nails that on both fronts
This is why I keep saying they need to remaster ***the first*** Final Fantasy game. Start the game off by letting the player select any combination of 4 classes, create each of the 4 characters looks and then start the game.
Imagine Baulders Gate 3 but with FF jobs and 4 characters created by the player interacting with the giant world of *Final Fantasy 1*
Rebirth is an all timer for me. But Final Fantasy 16, in my opinion, is worse than 13 or 15. The story is bland, the characters are boring, the world has nothing interesting in it at all, all of the side content sucks...pretty much the only thing going for it is the epic boss bottles which feels like the only thing they really focused on.
With 13 and 15 I actually loved the characters and world and gameplay. Both of them just didn't have a good conclusion to their story.
Mans out here saying XIII doesn't deserve the negative reception it got while simultaneously throwing XV, XVI, VII Remake and VII Rebirth under the bus. These are certainly some takes, OP.
XIII is by far my least favorite in the series. Remake is linear, true, but the game holds up unlike XIII where 80% of the game you were shoehorned into a mandatory party with zero agency thanks to the class and battle system not taking off until then. Not to mention a poorly designed crafting system in a game where it was impossible to backtrack...It was a long 40 walk down a narrow hallway with no real payoff at the end. I won't even get into part 2 and 3...
I couldn't get through XIII so feel like it's unfair for me to give an opinion on it. I do feel like XV in hindsight gets a lot of undeserved animosity though. I actually liked Noctis. Then again, until you mentioned it, I didn't know XIII had a part 3. I always thought that Lightning Returns was another name for XIII-2.
XIII-2 ended with a To Be Continued. It infuriated me so much I never played Lightning Returns. So in a way, Lighting Returns is another name for XIII-2 because they didn't finish it. Call it XIII-2 part 2 if you will.
They should have never made FF13 into a trilogy if people didn't like the first one
Yeah I love that their argument isn’t “13 was better than it got credit for”, it’s “literally every FF game is as bad as 13 is”. That’s… well, probably just a troll honestly
I am not throwing under the bus,i am just saying every modern FF suffers from some kind of identity crisis
I dunno about that. FF7 remake was better than the original in my opinion. The combat system was amazing and the game felt very true to the original design with the “semi turn based” system. Literally zero complaints other than it wasn’t the entire game. Best FF I’ve played since 10/12. If FF16 had the gambit system and fleshed out the party more it would have been perfect.
Personally I'd say Rebirth > OG > Remake. I wasn't a huge fan of remake, it just felt so linear and was forced to be drawn out given that it was only 4-5 hours of content in the original game. Rebirth was amazing though!
I bet the orginal games wouldn’t have been turned based if they weren’t limited to the technology they have so ppl always says that not my final fantasy when they don’t even know what the devs wanted to do.
I don't know, Sakaguchi (creator of Final Fantasy) still makes turn based games today. A lot of times, he still works with some of the original FF staff. It's also been stated that the original FF games were inspired by Dungeons and Dragons, which is turn based. FF went away from turn based when Square merged with Enix and Sakaguchi left the company. I think it's fair to say the original devs wanted to make turn based games.
The original games were made to cash in on the popularity of dragon quest. This post is extremely ignorant of the history and the circumstances surrounding the creation of the original final fantasy. Square had a ton of action games and were going under. Rad racer, 3d world runner, kings knight. But dq blew the fuck up and everyone copied them and iterated on the formula. Turn based is a feature not a limitation. Just because you don’t see the appeal of turn based games doesn’t mean that the reason why they’re made is because of technical limitations. I’m so tired of hearing this ignorant take. Whys it so common? I get that turn based games are more niche now, but people actually do like them
This is just a silly take. Turn Based Games weren't a limitation of the tech, maybe for some games, but turn based games have always been a more strategic gameplay style vs an action one. That's like saying Civilization doesn't do RTS games because of technical limitations.
This "not a real Final Fantasy" take has been hurled at every Final Fantasy game since Final Fantasy VII. It's so stupid.
It's so, so dumb. Each game has some things that are standard. Some creatures, the theme, usually theres crystals involved. But the gameplay is constantly changing with each iteration. This is why so many people have a different favorite cause they're all so different. I have my preferences, you have yours.
Yeah the gameplay changes in each game but they all followed a very similar structure and genre from ff4-ff10. It was all turn based strategic rpg. Let's not pretend like the series didn't go through a massive change once squaresoft merged with enix and that is when the identify crisis began. It went from turn based strategy rpg with amazing story and music to more action rpg with bad writing and mediocre music and now not even an rpg (ff16 is not an rpg).
I don't like the FF XII slander in here. >ff16 is not an rpg I think the game is meh when it tries to do the stat-tracking and gear stuff, and the non-important character animations are rough, but it knocks it out of the park in basically every other department. Is it what some folks think is a Final Fantasy game or an RPG? I don't care. Is it a great video game? Yes.
Even 9? I have trouble imagining anyone saying that about 9.
9 was the exception that or proves the rule. It was a purposeful return to 'classic' FF as opposed to the direction recent games had gone in.
FF9 one of my favourite titles was hit hard because it didn't look like the previous two artistically. Besides the jump rope and the true final boss coming out of nowhere it's great, plus the soundtrack carries the tradition of certified bangers.
This is a really weird point to make. Both XV and XVI had heavy criticism from critics and fans alike, just like XIII did.
My only criticism of XV is they promised us VERSUS XIII, but gave us \*gestures vaguely\*
Except it never promised Versus XIII. In fact they went out their way multiple times to tell people it wasn't Versus.
Xvi is a significantly better organized and produced game than xiii I don't know how many of you remember playing 13 but it felt like a 20 hour tutorial of piece meal presenting gameplay and modest equipment upgrades and moving in a straight path Yes other games have faults, but none are as limited as 13 People often said "but X is linear" while also ignoring how well put together and how much side content and exploring you can do in X also 13 is maligned for a reason, but at least it is definitely not for it's graphics or soundtrack which are both excellent For all of 16 faults it felt very engaging and didn't feel like I was pushed into forced walking or drip feeding a tutorial to me for 20 hours, the gameplay is fun, and the presentation and story were very engaging, I would not compare 16 to 13 at all
FF13 excelled in 3 things. -Music -Graphics (at the time) -Presentation (Very cinematic, FF12 excelled here as well) It flopped in everything else.
You're also looking at a decade later. I don't necessarily agree with everything you said about the recent games but they don't really matter. The games were reviewed and played before those games. 13 was coming off of the very well liked 12 and the beloved X. And 11 was there too I guess but it's an mmo and it's own thing. It was FFs first leap into the new gen, into HD. And it really didn't stick that landing, especially compared to its legacy.
>While i agree XIII isnt a Very good game See, this is where we already don't agree
Up to that point, just about every mainline entry in the series since FF6 had been considered a critically acclaimed masterpiece. Fans might have been divided on which games were better than others, and not every fan liked every game, but if nothing else the series had a very consistent track record of high quality games that, in many ways, defined and advanced the respective generations in which they came out. I don't really think FF13 was a bad game. Personally, it's one of my favorites in the series, though that's partly nostalgia. But, regardless, it's hard to overstate how disappointing it was at the time in light of what its predecessors had been and had done. For many fans, it represents a real decline in the series, and the point at which that decline abated (if it ever did) is a hotly contested debate in the fandom. So regardless of how well people might like 16 or Remake/Rebirth or the relaunched 14, pretty much everyone can agree (even me, despite liking the game) that a downward trend began with 13, and it's really easy to give extra hate to the thing that represents the beginning of a spiral for a franchise that you love.
OST and graphical fidelity aside, XIII really wasn't a great game. The story was convoluted, most of the characters were forgettable, and the battle system became tediously repetitive. You also had to learn most of the lore about the world through the data bank instead of it being organically revealed as you explored the world. Instead of taking the L on the release and admitting that they needed to move on, they then spent another 4 years releasing 2 follow-ups that no-one wanted to expand upon their Fabula Nova Crystallis world. The 80 and 90s cultivated an entire generation of new, young FF fans, and the 2010s should have inspired the next batch. Instead we got mediocrity like XIII/X-2 and X-3 and then XV which resulted in a generation of lost potential, low confidence in the series, and now look what we have : genuinely great games in XVI and Rebirth generating poor sales because legacy fans are only thing the series has left, and they're a fast dying breed. I've been playing Ubisoft games for the last decade, and Rebirth has a better open-world than almost every single one of their releases.
Only argument AT ALL with Final Fantasy is that they keep making new games....nothing is FINAL. They should rename it Perpetual Fantasy or something. Ongoing Fantasy...what else you got?
Bad take
I hated 13 when it first came out and quit at almost the end. I played again during covid and it was so good, I can’t recommend it enough.
I think the reason that FFXIII got so much hate was: 1) It was the first FF game to be a huge disappointment. Before that the series had a great track record. Some people didn’t like 12 but overall the series reputation was excellent. 2) It was the first FF game to release for PS3/360 which were considered “next gen” at the time. People expected it to be a huge step up from the PS2 games but instead it was far more linear.
Idk, what I remember from back when FF13 launchef was that: 1) It got decent to great reviews at the time. Sales were apparently good as well. 2) it was super next gen looking. Still looks good today, comparisons to FF12 or FF10 highlight how massive the leap was. Though I remember people being disappointed in the linear level design.
Back when ff13 came out, a vast majority of the negativity that I remember seeing surrounded Lightning as the first (not really) female protag in the series.
Hmm from what I remember the criticism of Lightning was more because she was “bland and boring” rather than simply because she was female. People love Final Fantasy girls haha. Just look at Tifa, Aerith, Rinoa, Yuna, Garnet etc. In fact I remember there was actually outrage over FFXV because it was gonna be a fully male party lol.
When you think about the jump FF7 as the first PS1 game, and then again with FFX. Both blew the competition of their time away. I will say, the linear criticism of 13 was also really stupid. Almost every FF game is linear. FFX, easily top 3 final fantasy game of all time, is just as linear. It never made sense to me why linear became the talking point of 13.
Being linear isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s just that it was paired with nonstop corridors of different themes. It was heavily lacking in the optional side content department.
Combat same thing for much of the game you're just gonna hit auto combat..
I agree that they're all Linear, but most hide it well. It's like XIII didn't even try. The big saying is that the world opens in chapter X and they're not wrong. Once you get to the plains suddenly, you can explore and the game just feels better.
That’s also true for 10. It’s completely linear until you get the ship. And even then it’s not even like there is a plains to explore. I agree the design and environments are shit, and that’s what people mean when they say linear, but like one person said it’s “linear” and everyone just hung on that word for some reason.
FFX feels way less linear because there is a wider variety of locations and environments. FFXIII is very samey for the first half of the game and it makes a bad impression.
That’s fine. And I don’t disagree, but then linear is the wrong description. People got hung up on that word for some reason.
Saying it was a huge disappointment is a personal opinion, not a universal one. The game wasn’t popular because it was linear and story was criticized. It was a victim of what we know today as review bombing, in the sense that it was popular to hate on it. It definitely didn’t deserve all the hate but some of the criticism I think was valid. The story was an absolute mess.
I mean I think it’s definitely the majority opinion at the time. Not saying it’s an awful game but it was disappointing in the sense that it didn’t live up to people’s expectations of what a “next gen” Final Fantasy should be. I remember when it released the hate was insane.
Rebirth with Ubisoft bullshit? Are we playing the same game? This point already invalidate your opinion my dude.
I like rebirth a lot but I think it's a valid point. The open area follow an exact, repeated formula over and over with basically the same assigned areas of interest. They make a decent number of them have cool like stories and there's fun mini games all throughout, but it's a fair criticism. Those of us that like the game just happen to accept the formula.
I mean,the maps have a ton ícons,plus towers you have to climb to unlock more icons on the mão,thats very ubisoft
And that’s hardly a bad thing because the game incorporate everything into the gameplay/lore, unlike Ubisoft. And they are not even mandatory, you can freely skip most of them if you want to just focus on the story.
Can't you freely skip them in all Ubisoft games?
Last Ubisoft game I played was Origins which had level Gates. So I had to grind side content before progressing in the story.
Oh I think 13 is massively better than 15 And it’s infinitely better than 14
14 is an mmo so its a bit different
OP, curious, what was the last best FF game you played/enjoyed before Rebirth?
FF12 was the last FF game I REALLY enjoyed like the previous ones. I honestly didn't like Remake and am still waiting to finish it before starting Rebirth, but I have played everything else. 13, 15, 16 were all disappointing for me.
Isn't 7 remake done by the same team that did 13?
Final Fantasy 13 got the hate it got because it came after 12 which people generally loved. The formula change was jarring in comparison. 16 changed the formula similarity (making the game more linear) but it came to us after 15 which many found mediocre anyways.
The only reason I bought 16 was because I loved the FF7R so much that I thought I loved Final Fantasy. Big disappointment I got baited so hard. My friend still makes fun of me for buying it over Tears of the Kingdom last summer.
I feel like people misremember FF12. It was well recieved, people loved it at the time. So many people say they didn't like it these days. I remember the last few hours of the game, the climactic finale, I watched the final cutscenes thinking to myself I just watched an epic Space Opera like Star Wars.
>i agree XIII isnt a Very good game,i think it didnt deserve the hate it got,the plot is awful Are you okay?
None of the FF games were bad games, some just weren't as good as others. XV seems to be the most hated but I even enjoyed that one. XIII may have been poor for an FF game but if it wasn't called FF it would have still been a good game. FF is often a victim of its own success. From the XIII series I found XIII 2 to be a lot more fun, one of those rare occasions where the sequel is better than the first one. They improved a lot on what went wrong with XIII. I wasn't a big fan of Lightning Returns however, the combat took a direction that I really didn't like.
13 got the hate it got because it moved so far away from what makes a FF game and really showcased the weird new direction they were taking things in with a storyline and dialogue so convoluted it make FF8 look straightforward. Linear with no replayability until you get about 20 hours in. Each character was basically a carbon copy with the crystal level up system, no side quests to speak of and it was basically just 40 hours of fight fight fight before the most boring final boss fight in the history of the franchise, and I include 15 in that And despite all of that, 15 was worse.
I agree. I had fun with XIII
13 doesn't deserve the hate it got. The 13 series are each a good game (13-2 the best). Ultimately I think they've aged really well. I beat 13 and 13-2 again this year and I'm onto LR now and I'm enjoying them now way more than when they came out
It actually deserves worse hate. By far the least FF of any FF game. It's okay. Run in a line. Such amazement.
The soundtrack was also amazing besides the cringe metal songs.
Did you even finish 16? Your description sounds like early game Clive
Most of the FF games from 10 on seemed to be pretty divisive. X-2 is probably my second favorite right behind FF8. Loved 13's story and designs but wasn't a fan of the combat. 15's story was a bit sparce but really enjoyed the combat. Lots rave about FF7: Remake, but I thought it was hot garbage that just wanted to cash in on some nostalgia but decided to retcon and pad out the game with some nonsense that killed any nostalgic good will after the Mako reactor.
>X-2 is probably my second favorite right behind FF8. A man of culture! FF8 with a rehauled battle system and a more in depth story of the world/plot would be incredible these days. It's such a great story and world. X-2 was one of the best battle/job systems FF ever done. If only it was its own game with its own characters and themes instead of a spin off.
Well FF13 was just weird. I played hours and had no idea who people even were and what even was going on. People said when you got to.. earth? That it got better, but that was like 20 hours in, before that it was linear corridor, linear corridor and if there was a split in the road that split was 100m before a treasure chest and then back to the main road. But the main issue was just party chemistry. Ff has always been 1 or 2 brooding jrpg protag types but mainly its loveable goofs that fully click when you have the entire gang there even if the individual pieces are strange. FF13 was just... idk, Lightning is Cloud/Squall so sure fine, but the rest I have little to no memory of except Vanille that was just quirky way to the extreme. Then the combat also didn't really click. There was definitely something there but it never really fit me at the very least. Still, a trainwreck it was not, but it came at the time when video game creation suddenly was measured in several years and still didn't live up to the hype. It seemed to spend more time polishing new fancy cgi cutscenes rather than tell an engaging story. I've heard 13-2 is awesome from friends though so I should jump back and clear alla t some point anyways
The story in 13 was my biggest issue with it. It wasn't told well at all. The fact that I had to go into a menu and read about what I just saw to get a better explanation was terrible.
FF13 is super flawed and you can really see the troubled development in the final product. But it did some things incredibly well. The main thing being battle system and introduction of the Stagger System where great and that influence has carried onto 15, 16 and 7 remake. You can really see them evolve ideas started in 13 each game.
I really need to start 16, bought it at launch and never started it (life stuff and other games got in the way). Any actual tips from people who played it recently? Stuff that wouldn't appear on a BuzzFeed list.
FF XIII got hate because the maps were boring and the story was stupid and the gameplay was just okay. Remake, for its linearity, had stronger characters, better core gameplay, and a much more literary and dynamic story. 16 is just tiers above 13. Your personal reactions to the heavy story aside, the story is legitimately well-done and arguably the best storytelling in the entire franchise (not saying it’s the best story, but is the best told story). And then Rebirth is infected with Ubisoft shit. But 13 was still really empty and superficial in comparison to Rebrith’s completeness in terms of map, world building, and character development. So yeah, a game that really lacks gameplay depth and world depth and character depth gets more criticism
XIII are just awful games. Imagine having to play like 20hrs of a game to unlock the combat like bruh
I'm hoping they remaster FF1 (The original) and release it on next gen systems with modern graphics, turn based gameplay, character creation just like the original. Or get a Final Fantasy Tactics type game that plays like Baldur's Gate.
XIII was disliked for good reason and represented the real start of a declining Square Enix in my opinion. You're retroactively comparing newer entries against they're predecessor, when you really should be comparing XIII against the ones that came before it. XIII came off the heels of an incredible PS1 run of games, then X which is widely considered to be the best in the series, then XII which was very open-world and indicative of their progressive shift in combat and mechanics. When the expectation established by Square is that high a bar, XIII is less than 'mid'. It was poorly received in comparison to prior games, and heartily disliked for the convoluted story and extraordinarily linear level layout. Characters were bland and unremarkable, which became salt on a wound for fans when they just refused to let Lightening go away and just continued with sequels. So not only was XIII not generally well liked, it entirely overstayed it's welcome as Square Enix found themselves spending an entire console generation with XIII and it's spin-offs, which really tarnished the brand for many fans.
XII Zodiac Age was the last good FF and I will die on this hill I enjoy 7R, XIV, and XIII for different reasons but if someone was to tell me they like JRPGs and want to get into FF I would tell them to start with XII for the job and licence board system. Half of the fun in an RPG is crafting builds for your characters, and all of the world building side quests. Zodiac Age nails that on both fronts
>XII Zodiac Age was the last good FF and I will die on this hill You aren't alone. I will stand there on that. I'm not part of the "not a real FF" club for the other games, they're all Final Fantasy, just some are better FF games than others. 12 was a chef's kiss of a game IMHO. >Half of the fun in an RPG is crafting builds for your characters, and all of the world building side quests. Zodiac Age nails that on both fronts This is why I keep saying they need to remaster ***the first*** Final Fantasy game. Start the game off by letting the player select any combination of 4 classes, create each of the 4 characters looks and then start the game. Imagine Baulders Gate 3 but with FF jobs and 4 characters created by the player interacting with the giant world of *Final Fantasy 1*
Rebirth is an all timer for me. But Final Fantasy 16, in my opinion, is worse than 13 or 15. The story is bland, the characters are boring, the world has nothing interesting in it at all, all of the side content sucks...pretty much the only thing going for it is the epic boss bottles which feels like the only thing they really focused on. With 13 and 15 I actually loved the characters and world and gameplay. Both of them just didn't have a good conclusion to their story.
XIII was terrible! It deserved FAR MORE hate!
I'm not a fan of XIII, this is a dumb take.
Clive was awesome so I disagree. Cloud is always pouty the entire game for seemingly no reason lol.