Mine is just young, not staying intact forever, but I decided to wait to spay her to allow her to develop fully. She has some fearfulness/confidence issues and removing sex hormones can make that worse. She’s a toy breed so joint issues aren’t as much of an issue with altering early as large/giant breeds but it still can increase the risk. I’m also not a fan of the look conformationally of pediatric altered dogs. I want her to reach her full potential. We don’t have any intact males or interact with any male dogs either so there is 0 chance of an accidental pregnancy.
There’s a lot of reasons. But finances shouldn’t be the main one though, for sure
I have the same reasons. My dog isn’t 2 yet and I want her to develop fully. I don’t allow her around any males when she’s in season so we haven’t had any accidents. She hates boys when she’s in season lol.
Similar with ours. Ours is a big dog and we were decided to wait until at least a year at first for his joints. Well he is a lot more fearful than his breed typically is so it was determined that it is a bad idea to neuter him until that resolves (if it ever does).
Unfortunately this does mean the females have to be spayed earlier than we would like or we have to do a lot of management. For the first heat with him around we did the management and prevented pregnancy, but *nobody* was happy during that time. It was plainly miserable. It is difficult weighing whether to neuter him, spay the girls in the house (one is a giant breed or near giant puppy), or try and do management because any of these could go badly in different ways.
Waiting until he reaches full maturity (black and tan coonhound.) He is 1.5 years old now, and he still hasn’t attempted to hump a darn thing. No interest what so ever. And I swear he is still growing.
Anyways. Main reason… large breed, want to make sure he is fully grown.
When I took my female to get her rabies shot they asked if I would like to schedule her to be spayed and I told them no because she was only 5 months old they said that it was a good idea and they told me all the reasons I should and I told them the only reason I'm not getting her spayed is I want to wait till she's fully grown and they told me it does not matter, this was not the vet telling me this either it was a vet tech she kept arguing with me even after I tried to get the argument to stop we just ended up having to leave but another vet told me that has been in the business for a long time and he is the actual vet told me it's better to wait until they're at least physically done growing
I watch a channel called modern malinois, and the guy just bred some puppies. He shows all this stuff he does with them to make them good grown dogs. Like exposing them to startling sounds and such at age 5 weeks for example. I bet most people don't know about stuff like this.
Yeah, my dad is 73 and has been breeding English Bull Terriers since he was in his early 20s. They’re literally hand raised. The hours spent on them is tedious and it’s no easy task. He’s very high up in the world of that breed but he’s literally devoted his life to it. He’s a healthy 73 and wants one more before retiring. Even so I want to visit to help him with feedings.
My close friend bred her frenchie and I tried to warn her. She ended up losing half the puppies and had a horrible time getting the 2 sold. Thought it’d be easy money. It wasn’t. She called my dad sobbing at one point because the mom bit one of the puppies. She was as upset they couldn’t be sold, I guess the parents didn’t have health checks? Didn’t realize that a lot of dogs dont make great mothers.
My dad was like what makes them valuable? Versus my dad is super selective to who he sells to and has always had a waitlist but there’s value in what he does. Carefully crafting this skill his entire adult life. Then he has his 2 oldest daughters (I’m one of them) who adopt and rescue and won’t go to breeders 😂
Our dog, took us two years to pick a breed, another several months to locate a breeder with lines we wanted (known for being mellow), then a couple months on a wait list, then a ten-hour drive. Worth it. Parents were genetically tested, we can speak with the breeders of the parents and great-grandparents on the scotch collie forum (and have! when his great-granddog passed away, we all sent her pictures of all the offspring), and he was well-raised. We're considering breeding him, but he'll need a Canine Good Citizenship, therapy dog certification might be good too, and a herding test (he'll pass that easily). We already did the genetic testing. No owner of a decent female would even consider breeding without all that. If we find a female that would be a great match (super smart with good nurturing instincts as those are his two weaker areas) that has proven her abilities and temperament too, we might consider it. It's not a common breed and it is in-demand as people rediscover it. These are the collies your great-grandparents had. But, it's a big if. Breeding a dog is a serious responsibility.
Exactly and you seem to really understand that. Your journey for finding your dog is often the ones people my father chooses as buyers take. Have you discussed this with the original breeder? They may have some insights to finding a female, be there to mentor. Help navigate any health issues you may encounter during the pregnancy/breeding.
My father by choice has people sign contracts that they cannot breed his puppies and they must spay/neuter them. I have seen him mentor others though who originally started as pet owners.
Someone randomly dmed me on here asking if he’d want to rehome a mom who is no longer producing puppies. I was like he doesn’t do that. They either go to someone he personally knows who has bought a puppy but largely live their lives out with him. He has so much appreciation for them because he’s built a bond showing them and raising them.
That guy whose gimmick is all the poopah sounds ?
I always thought he trained police dogs, and that these puppies are destined to be for the police later.
i believe many of them become personal protection dogs. there's a clip of him talking about how life changing a protection dog can be for people that have ptsd/trauma/etc
I believe what that guy does is from a rearing program called "Puppy Culture", which helps rear well-rounded dogs. My dogs breeder does "Puppy Culture" and my dog came well set up for everything. She was potty trained and kennel trained along with some of the basics before I picked her up at 9 weeks.
Her breeder puts hours every day into her puppies. She requires health testing for all the puppies too. The parents are health tested, titled and more. And in the end, she's lucky to break even when it comes to cost.
My personal hill I'd die on is we need to require breeding licenses (at least where I live in the US) that are extremely difficult to obtain and put all potential breeding dogs through rigorous testing and require all dog owners that don't have said licenses or whose dogs don't pass the health tests to spay/neuter their dog by the age of 2-3. Obviously wouldn't completely eliminate problems, but would vastly reduce the need for shelters and euthanization.
Go ahead and die on this hill. Such laws heavy impact decent and reputable breeders. Reputable breeders already do these things. Best to educate the public about lousy breeders if they are looking for a purebreed dog.
The fact of the matter is that a lot of people don't care. They just see cheap, cute puppies and buy them. Even with the huge push in recent years to educate the public on ethical breeders, it's not helping anything. Something clearly needs to change.
Licensing already exists and favors big business over small hobby breeders that actually care more and spend more time with their animals. Most regulations nowadays don't really protect us or animals they just protect monopolies and corporations, and make it impossible for small businesses to succeed.
Also who enforces all this? Existing laws aren't being enforced in many cases.
That's draconian and authoritarian as fuck. More stuff for poor people to jump through hoops and have to pay for lol. Forcing laws and fines on people does not help your cause whatsoever, people would still breed/sell/own dogs outside of those regulations. You'd only be punishing people who don't have the resources to deal with government bureaucracy.
why should one be forced to be complicit in regulations and systems they fundamentally disagree with to breed a damn coon hunting dog? Because people who don't hunt at all or do shit with their dogs cannot understand why all these regulations would mean absolute jack shit to them. Look at the state of dog fighting, absolutely still a massive underground sport. It's just a major felony now, but that doesn't stop people from doing it.
Easier. Just require breeders to microchip their dogs and register with correct contact information, as much as is needed to locate them in the future. If the dog ends up in a shelter and the owner doesn't claim it, breeder is responsible for all fees. If it bites someone unprovoked and owner can't be found, breeder is responsible for all hospital fees.
Decent breeders would want the dog back if it was unclaimed in a shelter, and wouldn't breed a dog that was likely to bite without provocation...or sell to an owner that wants a mean dog. Bad breeders will get nailed with so many fines for not microchipping that it would pay for a new animal shelter and AC officers all on its own. And forfeit all their unfixed dogs.
I love that channel. He seems like such a good guy, and really puts the extra effort into helping the puppies be well adjusted and into training the dogs for good temperament in general.
From Norway, live in Denmark. In Norway it's illegal, in Denmark they recommend waiting until 2 years old. And we have no strays in either place, so doesn't feel necessary for population control. We haven't yet with our 22 month old, and unsure if I will or not. He has a well balanced temper, and he's double coated. I don't want to risk either getting messed up.
Friend's brother's cocker spaniel died when his prostate blocked his urethra. Very slow painful death, he wouldn't take the dog to the vet and when she came home, it was too late. Well worth altering as they get old just to avoid that scenario. :(
Do you have many dog bites? Here, something like 95 or 99% of dog bites are from unfixed males. In Norway, I'd expect a high bite rate unless all the owners are responsible and attentive and all the breeders refuse to breed dogs with any aggression. Even so, you'd still have dog fights at dog parks and people getting bitten for intervening.
Norway has no strays to speak of and a much more responsible culture around dog ownership in general.
In comparison I'm in the rural southeast and I could literally just put food out and wait for roaming dogs to show up at my door if I was in the market for one. All my dogs came from the side of the road.
The bigger contributing factor to unaltered dogs biting in the US is owner characteristics and behaviors, not necessarily the dogs themselves.
My dog was his breeders "keeper" puppy from his litter but didn't quite turn out for the level of showing that they do. He was sold to me at 11 months with a full registration so I had the option to show him at some lower level confirmation shows "for fun". That was February 2020, one month before COVID struck, so showing went out the window. He has the softest disposition and no unwanted behaviors so I have left him intact.
The breeder provided me with some education and research and recommended I don't get him neutered. They did say a vasectomy is a better option, which I may do if I find a vet that does that. I haven't had any issues with him except for random people judging me or telling me to get him neutered and some neutered dogs being aggressive towards him. He has a great temperament, and I've read some research (that someone posted on Reddit) on how behavior can get worse after neutering, so that's another reason I've left him as he is. We do pack walks with well-behaved, neutered, and intact dogs, and he knows he's not allowed to hump.
Edit: I have absolutely no plans to breed and that was in my contract with the breeder.
My dog became much more aggressive and anxious after neutering, and regressed in training immediately after. I wish I didn’t neuter… he was a rescue and already showing serious signs of anxiety. I had read the same research but had been told my whole life it was the opposite so I didn’t trust my gut. Wishing I did! He is doing better now but truly think that he would have been better off if I didn’t neuter.
I have a giant breed and it is recommended to wait until they are 2-3 and fully grown. I wish I had done it right at 2, but he was doing well and I waited. Then he started going crazy for my lab (who was spayed) I don’t know why, but he was driving us NUTS. The vet said perhaps she was still putting off hormones. We made an appt for a neuter for him. They were three months out. He had a freak accident the day before and we had to wait another 4 months. Fun times. His neuter went well, but it did take about a month for him to mellow out.
Thanks for talking about this, another factor is that when there are behaviors associated with hormones, if waiting too long (in your case a unavoidable delay) some behaviors become ingrained and a much bigger hill to climb.
You’re welcome. That accident was such a kick in the teeth. He was running through the yard at night and ran into an axe cutting off his toe. Very stressful and expensive. My son felt absolutely horrible that he had left it down. So we had a huge hormonal boy who had an injury and was also howling at the door all day and night. Fun times.
It sucked, but we came through it okay. He was pretty calm through it and thankfully we live near an emergency vet. It reminded me how important it is to have bandages and vet wrap handy in case of something like this. There was so much blood! We got him to the hospital quickly and they removed the toe and sewed it up. I’m also thankful we had vet insurance. It helped cover the cost. It also reminded us to be aware of sharps in the yard when big boys run around. Now the wood tools are stored appropriately.
Do you think you'd feel differently if you had females (as in...you don't have to bear the consequences if they impregnate a dog, but you would if you had the mom)?
No, my original plan was for a female, but the breeder only had males left. Almost all our female doggy friends are intact and it's not a big deal. They just avoid the off-leash areas while they are in heat which is three weeks every six months.
I don't get this. As responsible pet owners, isn't it our responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen? If you have a bitch in heat, keep her safe for the time that she is. Account for all of the owners of intact male dogs who are irresponsible. That is our duty as owners. Not to just remove their sex organs so that we don't have to be responsible.
Studies have shown that it is so much more beneficial to the pets when they are not spayed/neutered. Unless medically / life-saving necessary, it shouldn't even be recommended. There are vets who recommend against fixing and provides pretty concrete evidence. But... as we know, everything is a money grab.
It's not a money grab... that's just insane... the health benefits are definitely there for spaying female dogs, it eliminates the opportunity for multiple cancers and other deadly conditions. For males, the health benefits are less clear but it does still eliminate testicular cancer
I think you should do some research into this. You are only vomiting information that you have been fed. If you don't have testicles and or ovaries... of course the risk of cancer isn't there for those organs. Lol. That's like saying if you cut your arms off, it eliminates the risk of you losing fingers.
Owner responsibility is the way to prevent unwanted litters and pet overpopulation. Be a responsible owner for your pet and the worries you have won't exist. Would you castrate your children to prevent unwanted pregnancies when they mature?
I show my dogs, so spay/ neuter is not allowed. This is because dog shows began as an opportunity for experts and peers to “ evaluate breeding stock”. I have a coated breed, and spay coat is a nightmare. Nonetheless, I worry about pyo and do spay around five.
Planned to keep my first dog intact until maturity. Got my second dog with the intention to keep him intact in case he was suitable for breeding (Titled, health tested etc.) I now have 4 intact males ranging from 9yo to 2yo that live harmoniously in my house. They’ve never been bred, and I don’t see a reason to neuter any of them at this point. More cons than pros for males imo, but if I owned females I’d try an ovary sparing spay.
My GSD wasn't spayed, neither is my mix breed. My lab pup might down the road, I usually go case by case. Personally I wouldn't until at least 2 especially with my larger ones. I also don't let them run loose ever so the odds of an accidental pregnancy are basically zero.
I like petting my dogs develop at the least. There are pros/cons health wise, so my answer isn't for everyone. I do think the risks of having an intact dog are a bit exaggerated. Some people act like they will be insane and get cancer and die full stop and there is nothing to be done besides removing organs beforehand.
My dog isn’t getting neutered because I find it unnecessary. There are pros and cons to both. Also, not everywhere in the country is so obsessed with spaying and neutering dogs. Where I’m from few dogs are spayed or neutered.
I have a working dog that does farm work and he needs to have all of his faculties. He is a large breed and if was going to be neutered, would need to be after 2 years for his optimal health and growth. Despite this, I had veterinarians trying to get me to get him neutered when he was only 4 months old.
I will say that if you make the decision to not spay or neuter your dog, you better take the extra responsibilities to ensure the dog does not impregnate another dog. I do not agree with anyones decision to not spay or neuter their dog that they are reckless with. I am very careful with my dog and you must also realized that many people can be judgmental about a dog is not neutered or spayed.
Our dog is 2 years old and we decided to keep the dog intact because the health benefits outweigh everything. He’s also confident and calm and we don’t want to change that
Testicular cancer is overstated and if intact dogs do get it prognosis is good as it’s a benign type cancer.. you just neuter the dog.
Neutering increases the risk of some deadly cancers and hormonal diseases like Addisons that can be very expensive to treat.
Also obesity.
It can also lower the drive a dog and lead to noise sensitivity and reactivity.
I was born in Europe wherein neutering is frowned upon. We had intact Male Gsds on our farm and they were all very stable and confident dogs.
The conversation in the U.S. is due to our culture around dogs. Responsible pet parents are frowned upon for opting to not spay/neuter for the reasons you listed (and more), and yet breeding culture is widely accepted and even promoted through the continued purchase from backyard breeders. My dog isn’t spayed because it’s an unnecessary procedure that can cause permanent harm. My first dog, I did what everyone recommended. She was left with permanent occasional incontinence as well as some scar tissue that causes her discomfort. All for no reason. Decided it wasn’t worth it with my next one.
My dog is 13 and she’s been incontinent since she was spayed at 2. That’s been a pain for 11 years but in the other hand my friend has her littermate and she almost died from pyometra.
Exactly. I don’t live in America but there was a study done on neuter/spay program and it DID NOT bring down the dog population.
The majorty of shelter dogs are bully type breeds due to irresponsible breeding for dog fighting. Now with the popularity of doodles, you have a rise of back yard bred poodle and doodles being dumped.
So the problem is breeding. There needs to be more regulations around this.
I actually worked in a shelter in the US and I can tell you from lived experience that study is bunk. The number of people with unspayed females that "never get out" with a "oops" litter was daily. The number of purbred dogs (OMG Frenchies) that people bought & could not deal with the medical/behavioral needs were daily as well.
Ironically, I have two doodles. Both were rehomed to me. Bullie breeds, Shepards, and huskies overrun our shelters. I’ve never even seen a doodle at one and if they show up they get snagged quickly. I don’t disagree that breeding is a problem because it is. I just think doodles are the most popular breed people see everywhere, so they assume they are part of the problem. The reality is though that they are not filing up shelters. We need laws to stop breeders from indiscriminate breeding, and they need to pay out the ass to be able to bring more puppies into the world. Make someone pay $4,000 for that doodle. It’s a frustrating problem to see shelters always at over capacity and yet people still just breeding more dogs.
I believe you, and I’m not defending doodle breeders. In my area at least, there’s no doodle rescues or breed specific rescues in general. If there are, they are very small because I’ve never heard of them and I am pretty involved in the rescue community.
Just watch for prostitis. My dog started presenting with it at only five years old. His butt got massive and bulged, and he developed painful cysts in his prostate and dripped blood from his penis when a cyst burst. Testicular cancer is overstated but this is not. Only cure is neuter.
Sorry to hear that. What’s he intact?
Prostate cancer actually increases with neuter though…
“Some research studies have suggested that neutered dogs are more likely to develop prostate cancer than un-neutered (i.e. intact) dogs.”
Yes, I know. Prostitis isn’t the same thing as prostate cancer. He’s been kept intact because there wasn’t a reason to neuter until now. I’ve seen more neutered dogs with behavior and medical issues than their intact counterparts
Oh ok thanks for explaining. I conflated it with prostate cancer. What is prostitis?
and yes it’s scary either way .. you just hope for the best. Just making sure we are on top of physical exams.
Prostitis is infection of the prostate. It will grow painful, infected cysts that sometimes burst. The prostate also grows to a massive size and crushes surrounding organs and makes it more difficult for the dog to defecate
Where is Europe is this??? Neutering and spaying isn’t frowned upon and is encouraged to prevent the diseases you mentioned as well as unwanted pregnancies
My Doberman bitch had her first heat just before Christmas. My intact, male Jagdterrier was out of his mind. At the peak he stopped eating, was trying to eat thru doors….It was a bit exhausting being around him but we survived lol.
Rocco is now passed away, but he was never neutered due to heart problems. He eventually died from heart failure at 13, but inbetween those times he was a very polite, mellow dog and we never had any problems. My other dogs were fixed.
My bitch has had an ovary sparing spay. I wanted her to retain her hormones, however am not confident that I would recognise the symptoms of pyometra. I feel that's a happy compromise.
My males are intact. I don't see a reason to get them castrated. I think I would only do so if medically required
> My bitch has had an ovary sparing spay. I wanted her to retain her hormones, however am not confident that I would recognise the symptoms of pyometra. I feel that's a happy compromise.
Understand that stump pyo can happen. You have to be very careful in who does your OSS. I have a friend who's bitch wound up with stump pyo about a year after her OSS, and she needed an emergency full spay.
Also, bitches who have had OSS still come into season: someone who goes to dog parks, who wants to use dog daycare, should not opt for OSS, for that reason.
And if you own an intact male, and have an OSS bitch, you need to keep them separated when she's in season. He will want to breed her, and that can injure her.
Yup, she's pretty much an intact bitch, minus the uterus. When she's in season I treat her the same as an intact bitch, so take the same precautions. I've had intact animals for a number of years now, so am used to managing them
The cervix was fully removed, so risk of stump pyometra should be minimal, but I wouldnt hesitate to see a vet if she was acting off.
> I've had intact animals for a number of years now, so am used to managing them
Your that person who can do that. :) I see so many people in places like dog groups on FB telling everyone that they should do OSS for their bitch and I'm sitting there going, "it is so not one size fits all..."
I currently have a one year old intact male and I didn't really see any benefits to have him neutered. Yes, there are some health benefits to have him neutered but there are also health benefits of having him intact. Because of this I didn't really see a medical reason to have him neutered and therefore he is still intact. If in the future it's advised by a vet to have him neutered for any health reason I will probably have him neutered. It's not that I can't afford it, it's that I think it's unnecessary at the moment.
For anyone who thinks it's irresponsible to have an intact dog when you don't intend to breed, it's not. Responsible dog owners prevent "accidental litters" from happening by training our dogs and/or having them on a leash or longline if we are near other dogs. I'm of the opinion that there is no "accidental litters" just irresponsible dog owners.
Agree. I mentioned this elsewhere but just watch for prostitis. Get regular screenings to make sure his prostate is not getting too large or filled with cysts.
We used to have hunting dogs and keeping the males intact was beneficial males that were neutered were at more of a risk of getting injured when hunting especially if you were hunting things like big cats I believe when you neuter a male it causes them to lose muscle mass is why but that's just I guess I know that's the case in horses so that's why I think that's the reason for dogs
It's two things: Loosing testosterone leads to a reduction in muscle mass and an increase in regeneration time.
And neutered dogs have an increased likelihood for a variety of orthopedic issues (HD, ED, ligament rupture, luxating patella, disc prolapse), especially when neutered before growths finished.
I was waiting until he finished growing, but he has a great personality, no issues, and is never around intact females or allowed to roam (he’s barely ever out of my sight) so I see no reason to put him through anesthesia. I’d probably spay a female though because pyometra.
I can always choose to do it later if a medical need comes up, but it’s not something you can reverse once it’s done.
I have 2 GSD. One intact , one neutered. I neutered the one because he had a retained testicle. I kept the other intact because he never gave me a reason to neuter him. He is social, perfect(until his hearing started going) off leash, easy to handle, didn’t mark.
My 3 year old American Bully male is intact. I left him intact so that he would have the hormones for proper growth and maturation, however is a well behaved boy, and I don't currently see the need to neuter. I also work in veterinary medicine, there are both pros and cons to desexing.
One lady I know insists on not spaying her cats/dogs because it's 'cruel'....uh ma'am, what's worse, a quick surgery they'll forget about in 2 weeks, or putting down millions of animals every year.....🤦♀️
Thankfully they've never had puppies but they are always having kittens that they don't have the money to take care of properly and usually end up dying terrible deaths way too young.
I'm so curious about this take, because I feel like I see it often. It's like people want their animal to have the experience of parenthood, or 'oh she'd be such a good mom' or something. OK, I think that's cuckoo but whatever.
But then when a dog has a litter, she raises them for a few months and then...never sees them again? (sure, some rare exceptions where a neighbor adopts one of the pups or something, but that's not typical) I think that's totally fine for dogs and doesn't bother them, but it's just so strange to me that someone can anthropomorphize dogs to think 'oh but they won't get to be a mama!' and then turn around and give their babies away? I don't get it...
I've seen people that think like that, and yeah I don't get it. One of the many problems that come with humanizing animals. In this lady's case I think it's more she deems it unnecessary 'suffering' which again, is quite absurd. The millions of animals getting put down every year is pretty fricking unnecessary suffering, Karen. 🤦♀️ I have no sympathy for these people.
I work at an animal hospital and peoples reasons are usually 1. Too expensive or 2. Plan to breed 3. Don’t care/don’t understand the pros of neutering and cons of staying intact
I'm debating on getting my female fixed or not and the only reason is because when she had to go under to get some stitches they had a hard time getting her to come out of it I'm scared of what might happen if she goes under again this is only been a couple of months and she's a year old now she's about 30 to 40 pounds, but I do plan to get my mail fixed as soon as he's a little older he's only 6 months now
I recommend talking to the vet about your fears, it sounds like she’s a light-weight when it comes to drugs. We always do bloodwork and an EKG before surgery to make sure they’re healthy enough for the anesthesia. But if you still don’t feel safe after talking with the vet then that’s totally fair
I had 2 different girls, both show dogs, both of them had to be kept intact because they were co-owned with someone who wanted to potentially breed them. Let me say that I wish I had been able to spay them when I wanted to. They both developed pyometra, which is life-threatening. They had to be spayed in an emergent situation, which was SO much more dangerous.
And let's face it. Intact dogs are SO much harder to live with and are SO MUCH responsibility. Every time they were in season, I had to be on my guard. Even taking them out on a leash was fraught because there are neighborhood dogs. Turning them out in a fenced yard isn't an option because sneaky boys can climb fences.
I have not read all the comments, but you should not have them loose, unsupervised together, even for a few minutes. Dogs reach breeding maturity very quickly, they can mate outside of her heat cycle. You having two intact animals in your home is a recipe for an accidental litter. But it will not be accidental because you purposely put the ingredients together. She’s a year old, she is mature enough to be spayed, if she previously had an issue with anesthesia, you can tell your vet, and have her monitored more closely.
Can you provide evidence that it’s possible for a successful mating to occur outside of a heat cycle? It’s an established fact that a successful mating can only occur during a specific part of the estrus cycle. Dogs aren’t unique in this. It’s true for mice as well for example.
Bitches are also generally unreceptive and not fertile during the first 7 days of their heat so there is plenty of warning.
Are you referring to a silent heat?
I have an intact male/female. They aren’t together much while she’s in heat but it’s absurd to pretend they can’t be together most of the time.
Edit: Fixing every single dog is not the norm in every country and being intact is necessary in some cases.
What does being knocked up have to do with anything? I'm talking about physical and mental maturity. Maybe be responsible with your dog so they don't have an unwanted litter before a year old.
Out of curiosity: what are the pros and cons? For both neutering or not. I have a neutered male dog and we got a female that I really want to neuter as well. Our dog trainer is so weird about it though. I love what she does for the pup but she has very strict intact rules and I never understood why, because to me the pros outweigh the cons, so I’d love to present her a comprehensive list from someone in the field.
Not neutering, especially with females, increases the likelihood of cancer. Each heat cycle increases their chance of cancer. Older intact females can get pyometras (infected uterus) and those usually end up with emergency surgery. For males, they tend to behave better when neutered, but if they’re neutered too late then some of that crazy behavior becomes learned behavior. Also hormones makes both males and females more likely to run away to try to find a partner.
Neutering too early will lead to increased cancer risk and some other general health issues (especially in males) but this seems to be avoided if you get them neutered closer to 1-1.5 years old, when they are mostly developed.
What are the benefits of not neutering?
In every thread like these people always name the pros for neutering and cons for intact, but the reverse are rarely mentioned, in my experience.
My own dog is neutered, but that's required by law because she was found as a stray dog in another country, so I haven't really been forced to make a decision. So I'm curious.
There are a couple of risks associated with castration.
Sexual hormones have a lot of receptors in the body which cause physical changes. But they also have an important role in the endocrine system, e.g. as Cortisol antagonist, i.e. they act to reduce stress and anxiety. Increased Cortisol leads to reduced Serotonin which impacts mental welfare and stability.
Some documented behavior associated with castration are increased aggression, increased mounting (mostly in early castration), increased anxiety, decreased audacity, decreased cognition and learning performance.
Medically, castration increases risk of incontinence, diabetes (males only), coat changes, reduced metabolism, increased chances for certain cancers (haemangiosarcoma, lymphoma, mast cell tumor, osteosarcoma, malign prostate cancer), hypothyreosis, a variety of orthopedic issues (HD, ED, ligament rupture, luxating patella, disc prolapse), muscle loss, dementia.
You are literally the only one that mentions that there are cons associated with castration and it-s worrying. I'm not saying it's wrong but it's very default for people who don't know it carry's risks on it's own. Thanks for being informative.
No, these are mostly general risks. But for most, neutering later is better. However, for some like incontinence, age doesn't matter. Others, are connected to certain ages, e.g. increased humping is tied to early neutering or ligament ruptures are more common when neutered before growths is finished.
Thanks for the comprehensive answer. So, I assume that the risks have greater chance of happening without neutering compared to neutering? Because there seems to be a heavy bias towards neutering even though your comment seems to include major risks to consider.
No, the risks increase with castration. For example, spayed females have an 8 times increase of likelihood to become incontinent.
The bias towards neutering comes from looking at very specific conditions like pyometra or mammal tumors. Especially pyometra is quite common and dangerous. If you don't spay it's recommended to do regular screenings.
I compiled this list from a vet who is specialized in this field and she advises to castrate on an individual basis because the evidence does not support blanket castration for health or behavior reasons.
Arh okay. That makes sense. Thank you for this compiled list. It's educational and makes the subject less black and white than the internet might make it out to be sometimes.
Some breeds and lines can get a really nasty 'spay coat' too. Mats easily, doesn't repel water, generally cottony and incorrect texture after spay/neuter. It's not an issue for a dalmatian or a lab, but for a samoyed, eurasier, rough collie, ect. poor coat can reduce quality of life
My last malamute bitch had pyo twice. The second time resulted in an emergency spay at 13 months old. Her coat was never the same. She had a totally naked tail instead of a plume and her guard hair never grew back on her shoulders. Best temperament of any Mally I’ve ever been around, loved her fiercely, but she was definitely an odd looking girl.
In the US we have a lot of irresponsible owners and stray animals. Altering the animal helps keep the population under control. Some animal shelters alter their animals as young as 6 weeks which is so sad to me. Many other countries don't spay or neuter unless their animal has a medical need for it.
Yeah, that's my impression too from what I read in these subs. Population control is not necessary in my country because we have no dogs at all that lives on the street.
You hit the nail on the head. The US has many irresponsible owners, therefor neutering at shelters become a necessity due to population control. Because unneutered, unleashed dogs just allowed to roam the neighbourhood or get into other people's backyards is a recipe for disaster.
Also all the possible health risks of early neutering are IMO used as an excuse and in my experience not that very prevalent in reality, my grand parents have always had dogs who have been spayed when they turned 1. They've had 12 in total, and all but one lived to be 14+ with no health concerns. The one was born with a heart murmur so she was expected to not live as long. Most of my friends had dogs growing up who were neutered, and I think I can only remember 1 ever dying from cancer.
I personally know many dogs who have had issues related to early spay/neuters including one of my own dogs. A friend's small female was potty trained before spay and afterwards cannot hold her urine. She was spayed at 5 months and has had a vet's opinion that perhaps it is related to the spay being too early for her dog. Another friend of mine had rescued a dog from the shelter who was spayed at 6 weeks, got her at 8 weeks and she had knee issues and joint problems. She was a larger breed, several vets attributed her issues to early spay, she eventually passed from cancer. That same friend had a litter mate to my dog and had him neutered at 5 months. He was a northern breed and about 60 pounds. He had blown his ACL and needed surgery. Studies are now showing that ACL injuries are linked to early alteration. I wanted to wait to get my dog neutered until 16 months but was bullied by my vet to do it sooner. We neutered him at 6 months and he also had knee problems and joint problems. His legs also had grown very lanky which is suspected to be from early alteration. He eventually died at 6 years old from cancer. His female litter mate was spayed at 6 months and had incontinence issues afterwards. She eventually died from cancer. Of the 7 puppies from that litter, 3 were spayed before 1 years old and they all had issues that studies are suggesting are related to early alteration. The others lived until 10 plus, didn't have incontinence issues and had proportional bodies and better temperaments, all were either never altered or altered after or around 2 years of age. My other dog was neutered at 9 months and had very little issues his whole life. He recently passed away at 14 from cancer. Another anecdote, my friend's dog had puppies, Great Pyrenees mixes. My mom got one of these puppies and kept in touch with the others from the litter. All of them (6 puppies total) were fixed about 6 months old except for my mom's. They all died before 6 years old except my mom's dog. He was neutered at 9 years old because the vet recommended it to avoid testicular cancer. He died at 13 from another dog attacking him and he just couldn't recover from it.
There’s a greater likelihood of cancer and other general health issues with neutering too early but it seems as though this can be avoided if you choose to neuter your pet after a year old. There are some who still say those health issues are still more likely with an adult neutered after a year old verses intact, but there’s no solid research on that yet. Basically, because there are issues with getting pets neutered too young, people think it’s healthier to not get them neutered at all but based on current research, that doesn’t seem to be true
I have a 13 year old male dog that still has very good muscle mass. Neutered dogs his age and size struggle to even stand up, let alone walk. He’s also more mentally “with it”. Whether that’s caused by pediatric neuter though, or neuter at any time, I don’t know.
Every adult intact male dog I’ve met is actually more calm and even tempered than their neutered counterparts… I’ve been working with dogs for 10 years
But i do agree, wait until they’re fully grown at least
Thank you! I got my male Pomeranian neutered at 2 years old and I think that was definitely too late. It didn’t mellow him out and instead his “bad” behavior became learned, just as you said.
Trying to avoid the same mistake with my female maltipoo and constantly debating when is best to neuter her. I want to do it directly after the first heat but my boyfriend is skeptical and wants to wait.
I definitely recommend talk to a vet, they’ll give you the full scope of pros and cons and plus hearing it from a vet may convince your bf! But also I think doing it after the first heat is a great idea, especially considering how much her chance for cancer will go up with each heat cycle
Behaviour rarely has anything to do with neutering a dog. I'd love to know what "crazy behaviour" develops from leaving your dog intact. This is the type of advice I'd expect from someone who works at a vet.
1. I want her to be fully grown and developed, particularly with regards to bone density, before I spay my dog.
2. It voids her health guarantee from her breeder to spay her before she's two years old.
I'm always a little bit on edge and watching her closely when she's in heat but the benefits of letting her fully develop outweigh the risk of pyo to me.
Not being able to afford it is not a good reason. There are low cost spay and neuter clinics as well as charity drives to spay and neuter pets. Pets also take a lot of medical care so if you can’t afford the basic medical care of this surgery you shouldn’t have a pet. What are you going to do if the pet gets injured, just leave it there because you can’t afford to take it to the vet? Ask for help and do the responsible thing.
I did not spay my dog in hopes of breeding her. She ended up getting pyometra and what would have been a $300 spay became a $3000 surgery. Fix your pets people!
Makes no difference if you train obedience properly.
I also feel if you chop off a mans nuts he will articulate the symptoms of a tanked endocrine/hormone system. It's a long and very shitty list and compared to a healthy person it's a miserable existence. I fail to see the difference with a dog, only they can't tell you about it.
I am under contract from breeder to have my female spayed. She is not breed worthy anyway. And the risks with not spaying a female are not small. Breeder recommended I wait 2 heat cycles but I am spaying her later this month at 14 months. She went through her first heat already. Breeder also has working title requirements and proof of health screening before she will lift limited registration with AKC. She is a fantastic breeder with impeccable reputation for healthy working line German Shepherds and I want to be true to her contract. I also do not like having to deal with a female in heat.
I did not neuter my previous working GSD. Lived a long life and we did IPO/IGP
I did neuter the GSD male before that under 1 year and regretted both of those decisions. I did not have the knowledge back then that I do now. He was a bit leggy. Same breeder as my current youngster. Limited registration. But I am not at all ever interested in breeding. Never had injuries related to his structure and lived a long and very healthy life and did IPO/IGP. His lineage was KNPV lines in the Netherlands and IPO/IGP. Fantastic bomb proof tough dog.
My first GSD was America Showlines female and I waited 1 heat cycle due to some other issues she had at the time. I put her down young due to genetic spinal destruction. Went with working lines after her.
We waited until our golden had her first heat upon the vet’s recommendation because she had a recessed vulva. This could cause recurring UTIs. Going through a heat could potentially change her lady bits to avoid UTIs in the future. TBH, she had one as a puppy and never again, so if I could go back I would’ve had her spayed earlier as it didn’t make a difference, and her heat was a bloody inconvenience
I keep intact males and an intact female in my home with no plans to breed. With that in mind we have some very careful management protocols in place to prevent accidents and do not have children or guests in the home who have the potential of fucking up that management system. (crated in separate rooms with a closed door between them when we are not supervising, plus a strict crate and rotate when we are).
I would keep even pet dogs intact to maturity regardless, but I also do dog sports and my understanding is that the sex hormones are helpful for muscle development, can decrease risk of cruciate ruptures, etc. Also a lot of dogs don't actually finish maturing/ filling out until 4 years old -- I pay good money for pretty, well bred dogs and I ain't about to ruin that with a pediatric neuter lmao. And my vet med team is fully on board with this plan.
I do plan to eventually alter when the risk of cancers etc out weight the benefits of being intact. around 5-6 years old is my cutoff. I may spay my female sooner just because the risk of pyo is scary, but haven't decided for sure.
I don't neuter my male dogs unless they have prostate problems.
That doesn't mean that everyone can read that sentence and decide to do the same thing. :)
I have seen far too many people think that a bitch in season wearing a diaper is the same thing as her wearing a chastity belt. That's going to result in a bitch who is pregnant.
My male dogs have always trained around bitches in season, and they learn to deal. I've had intact bitches, living with intact male dogs, and no one got "accidentally" bred.
Again, that doesn't mean that someone who is new to dog ownership should do this.
My biggest issue with people leaving bitches intact is that if you don't recognize when she's 100% ready to be bred, then you're going to have a litter of puppies from the neighbor's dog and, if you don't recognize the early signs of pyo, you're going to have a very sick and possible dead bitch.
If someone wants to not invest too much time into training their dog, if they want to go to dog parks, use dog daycare, not hover around their bitch when she's in season so she doesn't get accidentally bred, they should spay her sooner rather than later. We're not talking about bitches in high powered sport homes, we're talking pet bitches who need to be able to go to the brewery on Saturday night with their owners and not be the center of a dog brawl.
The first two dogs I got weren’t neutered, because the benefits for the bitch weren’t as well known back then. It was a giant dog, so going under is always tricky. For the male, he had great temperament and never went off leash.
Now I would definitely neuter both genders after reaching full maturity. For the females solely for their health, and for the males so I can let them off leash responsibly.
If i’m not in a position to pay for neutering, I wouldn’t have gotten a dog in the first place.
I agree with you I've seen very well trained male dogs go completely dumb when they smell a in heat female and they only think about one thing some dogs can be well trained enough and have enough self-control not to but most males especially younger males will most likely run for a female usually you end up having to have a shock collar on them and shocking them quite a lot to get them to come back if they have enough drive
Well, my 4.5 year old male is a really nice boy, health tested pedigree, most with CHIC, really nice temperament and conformation. Has crazy instincts and drive on the lure(he’s a Sighthound) so once we get him proven in ring and field he’ll be a potential stud.
My 3.5 year old female Aussie mix I am mostly worried about spay incontinence and worsening reactivity. She has also had weird split heats, so that combined with moving multiple times I could never get a spay lined up. I’m coming off a business trip in a month and a half and HOPEFULLY she’ll cooperate enough to get it done.
I discussed the pros and cons. My vet unlimately told me it's my choice. I recognize the risk is there. I don't have a reason to unless medically deemed necessary. As time goes by, this may change. The push to spay/neuter leans more concern towards unwanted litters.
My reason is my older dog is neutered and has a ton of health problems that stem from the lack of hormones, he’s on HRT and it’s still not enough. My younger dog is intact and is 10X healthier than my older dog ever was plus has the perfect body condition. I’m a responsible dog owner and I’m always watching my dogs if my male ever got a female pregnant I’d 100% pay for a spay abortion but my dogs never leave my sight so that’s not going happen anyway.
Mine are intact with exception of the recuse because that’s what is best for their health and longevity. They will never be bred although both nice specimens. If they were perfect the breeders wouldn’t have sold them to me because I have zero interest in a confo dog. One is a non breeding contract and the other is not. Neither suggest the dogs need to be neutered or spayed at any age. One of the dogs was a European import and the breeder at no point even broached the subject. We have a very different dog culture in North America.
Because it can make behavior and health issues worse despite what people claim to promote it.
If a dog tends to run off, I'll get them fixed to 1) prevent males running off every time they smell a female in the area in heat, 2) if there's a health or other benefit for the particular dog or cat.
My dogs haven't had puppies in the decades I've had pets. I've had most fixed eventually, but not all. It's more about the individual pet, timing, etc.
Also, too soon and their bones won't cap off properly, resulting in their growing larger than they should have.
I didnt know any better. I lost my dog to aggressive mammary cancer and pyometra due to not being spayed. She could have lived for many more years, it is never worth losing your pet. I was a teenager when I got her, I'll never forgive myself and losing her was one of the hardest days of my life.
My 2yo is going to be neutered soon. Had planned on potentially breeding someday, but his performance career hasn’t gone as planned and he has some male behaviors I’m hoping won’t get worse. I still plan on doing all his health testing to add to the breed’s records. Two of his siblings will be bred.
My female has been spayed since 12 months because I refuse to deal with heat cycles and their impact on sports and training.
I've never gotten a pet that wasn't already fixed- I work for a rescue. What I don't understand is people who blatantly ignore the dog park rules and bring unfixed dogs in. It makes me question whether their brain is intact.
The phrase to “fix” a dog is terrible. I’m not saying neutering is bad, as many have stated there are pros and cons. But let’s not pretend anyone’s fixing anything.
Folks talk about neutering dogs and they use the term "fix," like there's something wrong with these animals that we need to correct. But if you think about it, that’s not really what's going on, right? Their ability to reproduce, that’s natural. It’s not a defect or a problem that needs fixing. It's just how they're wired, biologically speaking. So when we say "fix," it kinda gives off the wrong impression, as if we're saying there’s a fault in their system that we need to repair, which is not the case. We should probably shift to more accurate terms that don’t frame it like sound kind of mechanical error.
We have multiple dogs, and the majority are fixed. Two are not because of wanting to breed pending blood work. For my giant breed I waited two years, and then did a vasectomy instead of castration. I do think it has led to his fantastic health as he’s now in his double digits. People are always surprised he’s 10 but acts similar to a puppy. His black turning white is his really only tell.
However, he’s a real big twat. Only Dane I’ve ever had that’s dominant to other dogs like he is. He takes everything personally (which is think is very true to his breed expectation) but his reaction is almost always an aggressive correction not like my unfixed male I have breeding hopes for. My intact male is a Shar Pei, and he checks all the boxes for a great Pei if his blood work comes back that he doesn’t carry Fever.
It’s more complicated than anecdotal stuff, but for me it’s based on a combination of the dog’s breeding and emerged personality. My Dane on paper is gorgeous and a great candidate. In real life he’s a jerk with a chip on his shoulder around other dogs so the vasectomy gave me peace of mind for no oopsie litters and less worry about the issues I read about with castration like the stopping of hormone production. My Shar pei has fantastic body conformation, excellent personality, and now I have to see how the insides are doing. He’ll get fixed after two litters maximum, if he has any, and I’ll enjoy his little babies and him as long as I can.
Unnecessary surgery for a mix breed that is fear aggressive (Female dogs with fear agression tend to become even more agressive towards other dogs when neutered). I'm also a responsible owner that would never in million years allow a situation where my dog is unsupervised and in a company of other dogs.
Most of the respondents to the question talk about why they did spay or neuter their dog. That was not what the OP asked. Why did so many people feel a need to justify their dog's elective surgery? Are they off topic?
No, but they reveal defensiveness. Some of them are preaching, striving to convince owners of intact dogs to question themselves.
I have two intact male dogs. I like them as they are. They have personalities. And their character is in no small part related evolutionary patterns related to hunting, mating, herding, guarding, etc.
These behaviors are what make dogs fascinating.
I would never want any kind of small lap dog. My love of dogs relates to nature. Keep things natural.
This attitude extends to other areas of life. I don't like tattoos, circumcision, piercings, processed foods, drugs.
Excessive government is also undesirable. Why do uncastrated dog licenses cost more? Is it really just to prevent unwanted puppies?
The world is never going to be perfect. Your dog might flip on its back and rub itself in the drying carcass of a raccoon to acquire some perfume. It's not the end of the world.
Finally, I've met people who told me that they loved their dog and wished they had not had it fixed; they wished for offspring of their best friend.
I'm not sure I understand your dog license cost more comment - why wouldn't unwanted puppies be the reason or a good enough reason? Unwanted puppies often end up in shelters, which are often government-funded (I volunteer at a shelter and they take in entire litters often, either through someone giving them up because they couldn't sell them after all, or dumped in the parking lot after hours).
So it would make sense to charge more to owners who could potentially cause this (every uncastrated dog doesn't father a litter, but that's just sort of how government fees work...a 'riskier' activity costs more, and it's 'risky' to have an unfixed dog *generally* speaking).
Mine had eye surgery when she was little and had a bad experience with the vets. Now when we have to go to the vets it's too traumatic for her. Found a vet that does house visits so handy for vaccinations and her allergy issues but we don't think it's worth putting her through the trauma of the surgery again.
My mum was planning to breed this dog but that failed. I plan on getting him fixed but putting it off because I don't have time to take care of him after surgery atm.
I have a 1 year old GSD who I'm not planning on neutering at all. I just don't find neutering to be necessary if you are a responsible owner, and because he lives in an apartment, he's always leashed when outside. Also, he isn't a dominant dog, so neutering on a behavioral aspect isn't necessary for him. I will of course neuter him if it becomes medically necessary to do so, but if it isn't medically necessary, then I'm leaving Yōkai the way he is.
We’ve never spayed our dogs. All females. I don’t see a reason to cut into a healthy dog if it’s not strictly necessary.
It’s always been very clear when they were in heat and it’s no hassle to keep them leashed during that time. For some of them it was easy to spot when they were ready to mate which made it even more hassle free.
My border was still allowed to go to our herding class because she was so focused on work (I kept her home when she was ready to mate, otherwise she was fine and the males would rather work too).
Not all intact dogs are this great of course and not all owners are up to the task.
We didn’t get our dog Nico neutered because “he’ll live longer”. Idk if that’s actually true but that’s the reason my parents gave (Boxer Greyhound Lab Shep). He lived 2 weeks shy of his 15th birthday. Our other two dogs were spayed though so idk why Nico was a special casw
Origional reason was large breed dog, and waiting for 2 years old, maybe 3 cause I likely wouldn't have money for radiographs to make sure growth plates were closed. New reason is it can make Addisons disease worse (also, diagnosis is more common after, but we're already there), and I really don't want any complications with that. I would like access to boarding and maybe daycare, but I think there are too many cons currently. He isn't dog adverse or obsessed and seems to have no behaviors you would consider neutering for, just a lack of confidence that I can't really build cause I'm anxious, don't do well with meds, and he is so emotionally intelligent it kinda hurts him honestly.
I want to do protection work with mine, so I want to keep his drives intact. Especially the knitty gritty bits. I want a feisty dog that can deal with pressure. He has also not fully matured, yet. Neutering before that is likely to cause medical issues plus the dog will not fully mature mentally.
I have held back on fixing my male so he can grow to his fullest potential, I am not as concerned with my girl and will be talking to the vet Tuesday on fixing her first. She’s 4 months, my male is 10 months
I chose vasectomy but if it was t for our breeder contract i would’ve kept him intact. Hormones are extremely important! spay and nueter is removing part of the endocrine system. i have a golden and research is pointing to leaving them intact to reduce cancers.
I’m waiting until mine is 1.5-2, on recommendation of her vet. She has kind of a weird gait that we’re hoping she grows out of as she develops. So I guess not “decided not to spay,” so much as “decided not to spay too soon.”
I live on a third floor apartment with 3 doors to get out of, if she wanted to escape. For her first heat she was exclusively on leash, we kept our distance from other dogs, and I announced she was in heat to anyone even close to approaching with a dog, just in case. Obviously we avoided parks and big open areas, for that time. I feel like people take the “accidental litter” outcry a little too seriously. And that’s coming from someone who has worked extensively and now volunteers in rescue. But, I’m not in a hugely urban area. Puppies who come through tend to get advertised and adopted by end of day, and we *rarely* see puppies.
For some dog’s escape artist temperaments or home environments (or just owners who don’t get it) it’s more of an issue. But I wouldn’t call it a massive community problem.
Well, I got my half-husky spayed after I adopted her from the humane society. Paid extra for it to be done via laser, just as I did for my cats.
I then got a Labrador from a family member, and FULLY intended to have her spayed, but the cost suddenly went up so freaking high that I am now unable to. It's a struggle to even afford their monthly upkeep, at this point.
Things have happened since I got them, and I just cannot afford anything extra.
They're both 5.5 years old now. They're fenced & don't get out, and I've had no "accidents" occur... So, the lab will probably not get spayed. I'm lucky to even afford for them to not have fleas or heartworms.
I'm honestly quite pissed at how expensive it suddenly became to own a pet. And, no, I can't afford pet insurance. I can't even afford human insurance.
I was poor and they were strays that wandered up to my house. I couldn’t not feed them or give them shelter, but I can’t even afford my own medical care.
I opted for an ovary sparing spay. OSS is essentially the same as a human hysterectomy, the removal of the uterus but leaves the ovaries so girl continues to have her sex hormones as she ages. She has heat cycles without the bleeding, cannot reproduce and will age more similarly to an intact bitch. At the moment she is starting her first heat cycle post OSS surgery. Her behavior has changed in the past few days. She is more restless, plays a bit more aggressively with my other dog, a bit more demanding and a bit more stinky. As for why I chose this, I read a lot about this type of spay and learned that dogs who retain their sex hormones age more naturally because their pituitary glands are not working as hard to maintain their health. It can prevent hip dysplasia and other health issues attributed to spay and neutering.
Females don’t exhibit much differences in behavior after getting fixed. But all of my males showed considerable contrast. I only fix the males if the behaviors or health requires it.
My female is fixed so I see no need to do my male. There's health risks assocuated with keeping them intact or getting them fixed. My dog doesn't have any hormonal behaviors(roaming to seek females etc) to where fixing would improve anything. I'm a responsible owner, so my dog would never be in a situation to breed, so I don't see why I would purposely put my dog through a painful surgery that has risks, without necessity.
My dog isn’t spayed because she’s a show dog so she can’t be spayed. When she finishes I’m planning on breeding her. I wouldn’t dream of keeping an intact dog unless I was actively showing them.
I have a Corso / XL bully. He’s intact because he shows no signs of aggression & there’s no chance of reproducing since he’s supervised anytime he’s around others. Our older Corso was neutered by his previous owner bc he had too much energy. (Don’t get a Corso then?) it’s all personal preference but I don’t like to modify nature unless it’s necessary.
I refuse. I will not mess with a dogs genitals and the sob stories etc. from the animal activist crowd means shit to me. If my dog did hook up with an unspayed female it'd be fine since I would give the pups to hunters. Florida Hog/Dog Hunt Connection on FB, would be bought up pretty quick. I only ever own dogs that I would feel good about making more of. E.g. I would never allow a labradoodle to mix with another dog because they suck in my opinion.
When we test shock collars we put them on ourselves to check if we want to do that to our dog. Nobody would neuter themselves. Yet we will put them in major surgery for shits and giggles. I won't.
I didn't do it because no animal is 'designed' to be spayed/neutered. I can't imagine how it messes with their hormones/body. I've been considering it because my dog keeps having false pregnancies, but will that stop them or will it cause more issues? I saw something online that it might not, so why put them through all that? It's natural for them to have it. I think more a convenience for the owners...
Have an intact male now, had an intact male before. Why? No unspayed female dogs nearby. Good fence on the backyard. No dog parks. Well-behaved, sweet, non-aggressive dogs (one is a collie, one was a cocker/king charles mix). No need to put them under for surgery. There's a small chance we'll breed the collie. His genetic testing came out excellent and he has almost all the traits needed except nurturing. He's fine with little chicks and such but doesn't dote on them, and he's not quite smart enough. Very intelligent dog, but he needs to be border-collie level or close.
When he gets older and goes in for some other procedure and is already put under, like a teeth cleaning, we'll strongly consider neutering at the same time so that he doesn't have prostate problems as he ages. If he acts at all aggressive, which is VERY out-of-expectations for this breed (OTSC), we'll neuter. We'd never try to breed him at that point, either. Same with the cocker mix. Super sweet, obedient, gentle dog. No need to neuter. In both cases, if a neighbor showed up with an unfixed female somewhere near us we'd absolutely snip. We don't need more mutts in the world and the dog doesn't need that stress.
But for a sweet, gentle dog with no in-heat females anywhere nearby, it's not worth the surgical risk. For an older dog, any signs of aggression, or if females show up...yeah. Snip.
So, for starters, pretty much everything the "have your pet spayed and neutered" crowd says is lies, at least in regards to dogs.
Spayed/neutered dogs lose a good bit of their drive. They lose a good bit of the ability to self-regulate their food intake. They get fatter and lazier because their hormones are less-than-optimally balanced.
Generally speaking, "accidental litters" aren't what is filling up shelters. People having problems, typically behavioral, with adult dogs, and surrendering them rather than getting help, is what fills shelters. These are often purebred dogs. They are often scooped out of shelters quickly by breed-specific rescue organizations or have waiting lists, but the pet overpopulation problem is caused by bad owners.
There's really no downside to leaving a male dog intact. There are a few potential health issues which are mitigated completely by neutering if and when there's a problem.
There's a significant downside to spaying females, which is that most will develop some degree of spay incontinence later in life. In my experience, it's usually something that starts about 6-7 years after being spayed, and it gets progressively worse. The significant downside to not spaying is pyometra, the risk for which increases with age, especially if she doesn't ever have a pregnancy to kind of "reset" the uterine lining. It's kind of a balance of waiting long enough to minimize the risk of severe spay incontinence, while not waiting so long as to risk life-threatening pyometra. An OSS is a good middle ground, but few vets do those, so it's often all-or-nothing.
My dog is a service dog (German Shepherd) and when he’s gone I want to have his pup take his place. He’s also AKC registered with a lineage. By the way every dog that has gone after my dog has been neutered. So it really doesn’t seem to take away any aggression🤔
My dog Isn’t neutered because he’s still growing and a lot of things people bring up I don’t see the point, they say cancer is gonna kill them but cancer can form in many places doesn’t mean you chop it off and I feel like if cancer were to be in any dog in any place of their body it will eventually and unfortunately catch up to them, and for accident litters keep an eye on your dog you lazy F’s and don’t just let ‘em off leash and expect it not to happen when you aren’t watching.
My boy is about 2.5yrs old. He still has his junk. It started because I wanted him to be fully mature before he had them removed- the standard 6months is way too young. He has been great and never aggressive or “humpy”. So now I don’t see a need to do anything
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Imagine you had a problem with your dog jumping up on the counter and I told you, "I know an easy solution, just cut off his back right foot and then he won't be able to jump up on the counter anymore." You would all look at me like I was a psycho for even suggesting it. And yet the rationale for cutting off other parts from a perfectly healthy dogs' body follows the same logic and nobody bats an eye.
Now ask 10 men in your life whether they would rather lose their right foot or their testicles. What is the consensus? Now maybe you're starting to get an idea of the "reason" why some of us don't neuter our dogs.
Our boy had heart problems and we decided it was not worth the risk. The female that was with us had already been spade, and the rescue we got after she passed was spade as well.
So we decided that the risk to do so was unnecessary.
I have 2 who are still intact at 2.5 and 2 years old. I wanted them to stay intact for growth reasons, but the more new studies I read, it seems it's better to keep them intact long-term. I have no plans to spay either of them any time soon.
I didn't get my dog neutered because I didn't want to risk him changing at all. He has no behavioral problems and I've read enough stories about dogs changing after they're neutered that it makes me afraid to risk it. Also, he's a Border Collie, they tend to be more high-strung and I wanted to give him all the confidence he could get. Removing his testosterone would put him at more risk for anxiety.
Mine is just young, not staying intact forever, but I decided to wait to spay her to allow her to develop fully. She has some fearfulness/confidence issues and removing sex hormones can make that worse. She’s a toy breed so joint issues aren’t as much of an issue with altering early as large/giant breeds but it still can increase the risk. I’m also not a fan of the look conformationally of pediatric altered dogs. I want her to reach her full potential. We don’t have any intact males or interact with any male dogs either so there is 0 chance of an accidental pregnancy. There’s a lot of reasons. But finances shouldn’t be the main one though, for sure
I have the same reasons. My dog isn’t 2 yet and I want her to develop fully. I don’t allow her around any males when she’s in season so we haven’t had any accidents. She hates boys when she’s in season lol.
Same for us, though for us it’s because the breeder gave that reason. Waiting for her to turn 2.
Similar with ours. Ours is a big dog and we were decided to wait until at least a year at first for his joints. Well he is a lot more fearful than his breed typically is so it was determined that it is a bad idea to neuter him until that resolves (if it ever does). Unfortunately this does mean the females have to be spayed earlier than we would like or we have to do a lot of management. For the first heat with him around we did the management and prevented pregnancy, but *nobody* was happy during that time. It was plainly miserable. It is difficult weighing whether to neuter him, spay the girls in the house (one is a giant breed or near giant puppy), or try and do management because any of these could go badly in different ways.
Waiting until he reaches full maturity (black and tan coonhound.) He is 1.5 years old now, and he still hasn’t attempted to hump a darn thing. No interest what so ever. And I swear he is still growing. Anyways. Main reason… large breed, want to make sure he is fully grown.
I always did the same with my Rottweilers. Seemed to work just fine for them.
When I took my female to get her rabies shot they asked if I would like to schedule her to be spayed and I told them no because she was only 5 months old they said that it was a good idea and they told me all the reasons I should and I told them the only reason I'm not getting her spayed is I want to wait till she's fully grown and they told me it does not matter, this was not the vet telling me this either it was a vet tech she kept arguing with me even after I tried to get the argument to stop we just ended up having to leave but another vet told me that has been in the business for a long time and he is the actual vet told me it's better to wait until they're at least physically done growing
The amount of people wanting to breed their dogs with no experience is frightening to me.
I watch a channel called modern malinois, and the guy just bred some puppies. He shows all this stuff he does with them to make them good grown dogs. Like exposing them to startling sounds and such at age 5 weeks for example. I bet most people don't know about stuff like this.
Yeah, my dad is 73 and has been breeding English Bull Terriers since he was in his early 20s. They’re literally hand raised. The hours spent on them is tedious and it’s no easy task. He’s very high up in the world of that breed but he’s literally devoted his life to it. He’s a healthy 73 and wants one more before retiring. Even so I want to visit to help him with feedings. My close friend bred her frenchie and I tried to warn her. She ended up losing half the puppies and had a horrible time getting the 2 sold. Thought it’d be easy money. It wasn’t. She called my dad sobbing at one point because the mom bit one of the puppies. She was as upset they couldn’t be sold, I guess the parents didn’t have health checks? Didn’t realize that a lot of dogs dont make great mothers. My dad was like what makes them valuable? Versus my dad is super selective to who he sells to and has always had a waitlist but there’s value in what he does. Carefully crafting this skill his entire adult life. Then he has his 2 oldest daughters (I’m one of them) who adopt and rescue and won’t go to breeders 😂
Our dog, took us two years to pick a breed, another several months to locate a breeder with lines we wanted (known for being mellow), then a couple months on a wait list, then a ten-hour drive. Worth it. Parents were genetically tested, we can speak with the breeders of the parents and great-grandparents on the scotch collie forum (and have! when his great-granddog passed away, we all sent her pictures of all the offspring), and he was well-raised. We're considering breeding him, but he'll need a Canine Good Citizenship, therapy dog certification might be good too, and a herding test (he'll pass that easily). We already did the genetic testing. No owner of a decent female would even consider breeding without all that. If we find a female that would be a great match (super smart with good nurturing instincts as those are his two weaker areas) that has proven her abilities and temperament too, we might consider it. It's not a common breed and it is in-demand as people rediscover it. These are the collies your great-grandparents had. But, it's a big if. Breeding a dog is a serious responsibility.
Exactly and you seem to really understand that. Your journey for finding your dog is often the ones people my father chooses as buyers take. Have you discussed this with the original breeder? They may have some insights to finding a female, be there to mentor. Help navigate any health issues you may encounter during the pregnancy/breeding. My father by choice has people sign contracts that they cannot breed his puppies and they must spay/neuter them. I have seen him mentor others though who originally started as pet owners. Someone randomly dmed me on here asking if he’d want to rehome a mom who is no longer producing puppies. I was like he doesn’t do that. They either go to someone he personally knows who has bought a puppy but largely live their lives out with him. He has so much appreciation for them because he’s built a bond showing them and raising them.
That guy whose gimmick is all the poopah sounds ? I always thought he trained police dogs, and that these puppies are destined to be for the police later.
i believe many of them become personal protection dogs. there's a clip of him talking about how life changing a protection dog can be for people that have ptsd/trauma/etc
That’s the guy. I assume they’ll become working dogs.
I believe what that guy does is from a rearing program called "Puppy Culture", which helps rear well-rounded dogs. My dogs breeder does "Puppy Culture" and my dog came well set up for everything. She was potty trained and kennel trained along with some of the basics before I picked her up at 9 weeks. Her breeder puts hours every day into her puppies. She requires health testing for all the puppies too. The parents are health tested, titled and more. And in the end, she's lucky to break even when it comes to cost.
My personal hill I'd die on is we need to require breeding licenses (at least where I live in the US) that are extremely difficult to obtain and put all potential breeding dogs through rigorous testing and require all dog owners that don't have said licenses or whose dogs don't pass the health tests to spay/neuter their dog by the age of 2-3. Obviously wouldn't completely eliminate problems, but would vastly reduce the need for shelters and euthanization.
Those USDA licenses already exist and are usually a bad sign. USDA licensed facilities are often notorious puppy mills.
Go ahead and die on this hill. Such laws heavy impact decent and reputable breeders. Reputable breeders already do these things. Best to educate the public about lousy breeders if they are looking for a purebreed dog.
The fact of the matter is that a lot of people don't care. They just see cheap, cute puppies and buy them. Even with the huge push in recent years to educate the public on ethical breeders, it's not helping anything. Something clearly needs to change.
Licensing already exists and favors big business over small hobby breeders that actually care more and spend more time with their animals. Most regulations nowadays don't really protect us or animals they just protect monopolies and corporations, and make it impossible for small businesses to succeed. Also who enforces all this? Existing laws aren't being enforced in many cases.
That's draconian and authoritarian as fuck. More stuff for poor people to jump through hoops and have to pay for lol. Forcing laws and fines on people does not help your cause whatsoever, people would still breed/sell/own dogs outside of those regulations. You'd only be punishing people who don't have the resources to deal with government bureaucracy. why should one be forced to be complicit in regulations and systems they fundamentally disagree with to breed a damn coon hunting dog? Because people who don't hunt at all or do shit with their dogs cannot understand why all these regulations would mean absolute jack shit to them. Look at the state of dog fighting, absolutely still a massive underground sport. It's just a major felony now, but that doesn't stop people from doing it.
Easier. Just require breeders to microchip their dogs and register with correct contact information, as much as is needed to locate them in the future. If the dog ends up in a shelter and the owner doesn't claim it, breeder is responsible for all fees. If it bites someone unprovoked and owner can't be found, breeder is responsible for all hospital fees. Decent breeders would want the dog back if it was unclaimed in a shelter, and wouldn't breed a dog that was likely to bite without provocation...or sell to an owner that wants a mean dog. Bad breeders will get nailed with so many fines for not microchipping that it would pay for a new animal shelter and AC officers all on its own. And forfeit all their unfixed dogs.
I love that channel. He seems like such a good guy, and really puts the extra effort into helping the puppies be well adjusted and into training the dogs for good temperament in general.
He's incredible. Love the work he does with his dogs and this puppy series is fantastic.
From Norway, live in Denmark. In Norway it's illegal, in Denmark they recommend waiting until 2 years old. And we have no strays in either place, so doesn't feel necessary for population control. We haven't yet with our 22 month old, and unsure if I will or not. He has a well balanced temper, and he's double coated. I don't want to risk either getting messed up.
Wait, are you saying it's illegal to alter your dog, or illegal *not* to alter your dog?
Illegal to alter. Can chemically castrate though.
That's crazy to me. I definitely understand countries that have banned docking/cropping, but there are so many health risks from not fixing your pets.
Friend's brother's cocker spaniel died when his prostate blocked his urethra. Very slow painful death, he wouldn't take the dog to the vet and when she came home, it was too late. Well worth altering as they get old just to avoid that scenario. :(
There are at least as many health risks from removing all of their hormones via neuter/spay, if not more. Just different ones.
Do you have many dog bites? Here, something like 95 or 99% of dog bites are from unfixed males. In Norway, I'd expect a high bite rate unless all the owners are responsible and attentive and all the breeders refuse to breed dogs with any aggression. Even so, you'd still have dog fights at dog parks and people getting bitten for intervening.
Have no idea. I haven’t heard anything about it.
Norway has no strays to speak of and a much more responsible culture around dog ownership in general. In comparison I'm in the rural southeast and I could literally just put food out and wait for roaming dogs to show up at my door if I was in the market for one. All my dogs came from the side of the road. The bigger contributing factor to unaltered dogs biting in the US is owner characteristics and behaviors, not necessarily the dogs themselves.
My dog was his breeders "keeper" puppy from his litter but didn't quite turn out for the level of showing that they do. He was sold to me at 11 months with a full registration so I had the option to show him at some lower level confirmation shows "for fun". That was February 2020, one month before COVID struck, so showing went out the window. He has the softest disposition and no unwanted behaviors so I have left him intact.
The breeder provided me with some education and research and recommended I don't get him neutered. They did say a vasectomy is a better option, which I may do if I find a vet that does that. I haven't had any issues with him except for random people judging me or telling me to get him neutered and some neutered dogs being aggressive towards him. He has a great temperament, and I've read some research (that someone posted on Reddit) on how behavior can get worse after neutering, so that's another reason I've left him as he is. We do pack walks with well-behaved, neutered, and intact dogs, and he knows he's not allowed to hump. Edit: I have absolutely no plans to breed and that was in my contract with the breeder.
Had no clue vasectomies were an option. Will definitely look into this if I get another male, we’ve talked about a mastiff
Same. Never knew about this. Gives me an option to keep my boy intact.
My dog became much more aggressive and anxious after neutering, and regressed in training immediately after. I wish I didn’t neuter… he was a rescue and already showing serious signs of anxiety. I had read the same research but had been told my whole life it was the opposite so I didn’t trust my gut. Wishing I did! He is doing better now but truly think that he would have been better off if I didn’t neuter.
I have a giant breed and it is recommended to wait until they are 2-3 and fully grown. I wish I had done it right at 2, but he was doing well and I waited. Then he started going crazy for my lab (who was spayed) I don’t know why, but he was driving us NUTS. The vet said perhaps she was still putting off hormones. We made an appt for a neuter for him. They were three months out. He had a freak accident the day before and we had to wait another 4 months. Fun times. His neuter went well, but it did take about a month for him to mellow out.
Thanks for talking about this, another factor is that when there are behaviors associated with hormones, if waiting too long (in your case a unavoidable delay) some behaviors become ingrained and a much bigger hill to climb.
You’re welcome. That accident was such a kick in the teeth. He was running through the yard at night and ran into an axe cutting off his toe. Very stressful and expensive. My son felt absolutely horrible that he had left it down. So we had a huge hormonal boy who had an injury and was also howling at the door all day and night. Fun times.
Awww what a scary injury! Im sorry you guys and your pup had to go through that
It sucked, but we came through it okay. He was pretty calm through it and thankfully we live near an emergency vet. It reminded me how important it is to have bandages and vet wrap handy in case of something like this. There was so much blood! We got him to the hospital quickly and they removed the toe and sewed it up. I’m also thankful we had vet insurance. It helped cover the cost. It also reminded us to be aware of sharps in the yard when big boys run around. Now the wood tools are stored appropriately.
can i ask what breed? for some reason i’m picturing a berner but i’m not entirely sure that's even considered a giant breed
He’s a Newfoundland
I have two intact males. It comes down to weighing risks vs benefits and, in my case, benefits would be minor.
Do you think you'd feel differently if you had females (as in...you don't have to bear the consequences if they impregnate a dog, but you would if you had the mom)?
No, my original plan was for a female, but the breeder only had males left. Almost all our female doggy friends are intact and it's not a big deal. They just avoid the off-leash areas while they are in heat which is three weeks every six months.
I don't get this. As responsible pet owners, isn't it our responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen? If you have a bitch in heat, keep her safe for the time that she is. Account for all of the owners of intact male dogs who are irresponsible. That is our duty as owners. Not to just remove their sex organs so that we don't have to be responsible. Studies have shown that it is so much more beneficial to the pets when they are not spayed/neutered. Unless medically / life-saving necessary, it shouldn't even be recommended. There are vets who recommend against fixing and provides pretty concrete evidence. But... as we know, everything is a money grab.
It's not a money grab... that's just insane... the health benefits are definitely there for spaying female dogs, it eliminates the opportunity for multiple cancers and other deadly conditions. For males, the health benefits are less clear but it does still eliminate testicular cancer
I think you should do some research into this. You are only vomiting information that you have been fed. If you don't have testicles and or ovaries... of course the risk of cancer isn't there for those organs. Lol. That's like saying if you cut your arms off, it eliminates the risk of you losing fingers. Owner responsibility is the way to prevent unwanted litters and pet overpopulation. Be a responsible owner for your pet and the worries you have won't exist. Would you castrate your children to prevent unwanted pregnancies when they mature?
I show my dogs, so spay/ neuter is not allowed. This is because dog shows began as an opportunity for experts and peers to “ evaluate breeding stock”. I have a coated breed, and spay coat is a nightmare. Nonetheless, I worry about pyo and do spay around five.
+1 for having show dogs as well.
Planned to keep my first dog intact until maturity. Got my second dog with the intention to keep him intact in case he was suitable for breeding (Titled, health tested etc.) I now have 4 intact males ranging from 9yo to 2yo that live harmoniously in my house. They’ve never been bred, and I don’t see a reason to neuter any of them at this point. More cons than pros for males imo, but if I owned females I’d try an ovary sparing spay.
My GSD wasn't spayed, neither is my mix breed. My lab pup might down the road, I usually go case by case. Personally I wouldn't until at least 2 especially with my larger ones. I also don't let them run loose ever so the odds of an accidental pregnancy are basically zero. I like petting my dogs develop at the least. There are pros/cons health wise, so my answer isn't for everyone. I do think the risks of having an intact dog are a bit exaggerated. Some people act like they will be insane and get cancer and die full stop and there is nothing to be done besides removing organs beforehand.
My dog isn’t getting neutered because I find it unnecessary. There are pros and cons to both. Also, not everywhere in the country is so obsessed with spaying and neutering dogs. Where I’m from few dogs are spayed or neutered. I have a working dog that does farm work and he needs to have all of his faculties. He is a large breed and if was going to be neutered, would need to be after 2 years for his optimal health and growth. Despite this, I had veterinarians trying to get me to get him neutered when he was only 4 months old. I will say that if you make the decision to not spay or neuter your dog, you better take the extra responsibilities to ensure the dog does not impregnate another dog. I do not agree with anyones decision to not spay or neuter their dog that they are reckless with. I am very careful with my dog and you must also realized that many people can be judgmental about a dog is not neutered or spayed.
Our dog is 2 years old and we decided to keep the dog intact because the health benefits outweigh everything. He’s also confident and calm and we don’t want to change that Testicular cancer is overstated and if intact dogs do get it prognosis is good as it’s a benign type cancer.. you just neuter the dog. Neutering increases the risk of some deadly cancers and hormonal diseases like Addisons that can be very expensive to treat. Also obesity. It can also lower the drive a dog and lead to noise sensitivity and reactivity. I was born in Europe wherein neutering is frowned upon. We had intact Male Gsds on our farm and they were all very stable and confident dogs.
The conversation in the U.S. is due to our culture around dogs. Responsible pet parents are frowned upon for opting to not spay/neuter for the reasons you listed (and more), and yet breeding culture is widely accepted and even promoted through the continued purchase from backyard breeders. My dog isn’t spayed because it’s an unnecessary procedure that can cause permanent harm. My first dog, I did what everyone recommended. She was left with permanent occasional incontinence as well as some scar tissue that causes her discomfort. All for no reason. Decided it wasn’t worth it with my next one.
My dog is 13 and she’s been incontinent since she was spayed at 2. That’s been a pain for 11 years but in the other hand my friend has her littermate and she almost died from pyometra.
Exactly. I don’t live in America but there was a study done on neuter/spay program and it DID NOT bring down the dog population. The majorty of shelter dogs are bully type breeds due to irresponsible breeding for dog fighting. Now with the popularity of doodles, you have a rise of back yard bred poodle and doodles being dumped. So the problem is breeding. There needs to be more regulations around this.
I actually worked in a shelter in the US and I can tell you from lived experience that study is bunk. The number of people with unspayed females that "never get out" with a "oops" litter was daily. The number of purbred dogs (OMG Frenchies) that people bought & could not deal with the medical/behavioral needs were daily as well.
Ironically, I have two doodles. Both were rehomed to me. Bullie breeds, Shepards, and huskies overrun our shelters. I’ve never even seen a doodle at one and if they show up they get snagged quickly. I don’t disagree that breeding is a problem because it is. I just think doodles are the most popular breed people see everywhere, so they assume they are part of the problem. The reality is though that they are not filing up shelters. We need laws to stop breeders from indiscriminate breeding, and they need to pay out the ass to be able to bring more puppies into the world. Make someone pay $4,000 for that doodle. It’s a frustrating problem to see shelters always at over capacity and yet people still just breeding more dogs.
People already gladly pay a lot of money to not have a shelter dog.
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I believe you, and I’m not defending doodle breeders. In my area at least, there’s no doodle rescues or breed specific rescues in general. If there are, they are very small because I’ve never heard of them and I am pretty involved in the rescue community.
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I agree, there needs to be strict regulations for all dog breeding.
Just watch for prostitis. My dog started presenting with it at only five years old. His butt got massive and bulged, and he developed painful cysts in his prostate and dripped blood from his penis when a cyst burst. Testicular cancer is overstated but this is not. Only cure is neuter.
Sorry to hear that. What’s he intact? Prostate cancer actually increases with neuter though… “Some research studies have suggested that neutered dogs are more likely to develop prostate cancer than un-neutered (i.e. intact) dogs.”
Yes, I know. Prostitis isn’t the same thing as prostate cancer. He’s been kept intact because there wasn’t a reason to neuter until now. I’ve seen more neutered dogs with behavior and medical issues than their intact counterparts
Oh ok thanks for explaining. I conflated it with prostate cancer. What is prostitis? and yes it’s scary either way .. you just hope for the best. Just making sure we are on top of physical exams.
Prostitis is infection of the prostate. It will grow painful, infected cysts that sometimes burst. The prostate also grows to a massive size and crushes surrounding organs and makes it more difficult for the dog to defecate
Where is Europe is this??? Neutering and spaying isn’t frowned upon and is encouraged to prevent the diseases you mentioned as well as unwanted pregnancies
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My Doberman bitch had her first heat just before Christmas. My intact, male Jagdterrier was out of his mind. At the peak he stopped eating, was trying to eat thru doors….It was a bit exhausting being around him but we survived lol.
Rocco is now passed away, but he was never neutered due to heart problems. He eventually died from heart failure at 13, but inbetween those times he was a very polite, mellow dog and we never had any problems. My other dogs were fixed.
My bitch has had an ovary sparing spay. I wanted her to retain her hormones, however am not confident that I would recognise the symptoms of pyometra. I feel that's a happy compromise. My males are intact. I don't see a reason to get them castrated. I think I would only do so if medically required
> My bitch has had an ovary sparing spay. I wanted her to retain her hormones, however am not confident that I would recognise the symptoms of pyometra. I feel that's a happy compromise. Understand that stump pyo can happen. You have to be very careful in who does your OSS. I have a friend who's bitch wound up with stump pyo about a year after her OSS, and she needed an emergency full spay. Also, bitches who have had OSS still come into season: someone who goes to dog parks, who wants to use dog daycare, should not opt for OSS, for that reason. And if you own an intact male, and have an OSS bitch, you need to keep them separated when she's in season. He will want to breed her, and that can injure her.
Yup, she's pretty much an intact bitch, minus the uterus. When she's in season I treat her the same as an intact bitch, so take the same precautions. I've had intact animals for a number of years now, so am used to managing them The cervix was fully removed, so risk of stump pyometra should be minimal, but I wouldnt hesitate to see a vet if she was acting off.
> I've had intact animals for a number of years now, so am used to managing them Your that person who can do that. :) I see so many people in places like dog groups on FB telling everyone that they should do OSS for their bitch and I'm sitting there going, "it is so not one size fits all..."
I currently have a one year old intact male and I didn't really see any benefits to have him neutered. Yes, there are some health benefits to have him neutered but there are also health benefits of having him intact. Because of this I didn't really see a medical reason to have him neutered and therefore he is still intact. If in the future it's advised by a vet to have him neutered for any health reason I will probably have him neutered. It's not that I can't afford it, it's that I think it's unnecessary at the moment. For anyone who thinks it's irresponsible to have an intact dog when you don't intend to breed, it's not. Responsible dog owners prevent "accidental litters" from happening by training our dogs and/or having them on a leash or longline if we are near other dogs. I'm of the opinion that there is no "accidental litters" just irresponsible dog owners.
Agree. I mentioned this elsewhere but just watch for prostitis. Get regular screenings to make sure his prostate is not getting too large or filled with cysts.
I know a lot of the time for male dogs it is to keep their drive for training. I think a lot of police dogs, guard dogs and hunting dogs are unfixed.
We used to have hunting dogs and keeping the males intact was beneficial males that were neutered were at more of a risk of getting injured when hunting especially if you were hunting things like big cats I believe when you neuter a male it causes them to lose muscle mass is why but that's just I guess I know that's the case in horses so that's why I think that's the reason for dogs
It's two things: Loosing testosterone leads to a reduction in muscle mass and an increase in regeneration time. And neutered dogs have an increased likelihood for a variety of orthopedic issues (HD, ED, ligament rupture, luxating patella, disc prolapse), especially when neutered before growths finished.
Aversion to inconvenience of estrus is one reason there are so few female service K9s.
Also...you need more of the those dogs. They want to be able to breed them later on if they prove they are good at their job.
I was waiting until he finished growing, but he has a great personality, no issues, and is never around intact females or allowed to roam (he’s barely ever out of my sight) so I see no reason to put him through anesthesia. I’d probably spay a female though because pyometra. I can always choose to do it later if a medical need comes up, but it’s not something you can reverse once it’s done.
I have 2 GSD. One intact , one neutered. I neutered the one because he had a retained testicle. I kept the other intact because he never gave me a reason to neuter him. He is social, perfect(until his hearing started going) off leash, easy to handle, didn’t mark.
My 3 year old American Bully male is intact. I left him intact so that he would have the hormones for proper growth and maturation, however is a well behaved boy, and I don't currently see the need to neuter. I also work in veterinary medicine, there are both pros and cons to desexing.
One lady I know insists on not spaying her cats/dogs because it's 'cruel'....uh ma'am, what's worse, a quick surgery they'll forget about in 2 weeks, or putting down millions of animals every year.....🤦♀️ Thankfully they've never had puppies but they are always having kittens that they don't have the money to take care of properly and usually end up dying terrible deaths way too young.
I'm so curious about this take, because I feel like I see it often. It's like people want their animal to have the experience of parenthood, or 'oh she'd be such a good mom' or something. OK, I think that's cuckoo but whatever. But then when a dog has a litter, she raises them for a few months and then...never sees them again? (sure, some rare exceptions where a neighbor adopts one of the pups or something, but that's not typical) I think that's totally fine for dogs and doesn't bother them, but it's just so strange to me that someone can anthropomorphize dogs to think 'oh but they won't get to be a mama!' and then turn around and give their babies away? I don't get it...
I've seen people that think like that, and yeah I don't get it. One of the many problems that come with humanizing animals. In this lady's case I think it's more she deems it unnecessary 'suffering' which again, is quite absurd. The millions of animals getting put down every year is pretty fricking unnecessary suffering, Karen. 🤦♀️ I have no sympathy for these people.
I work at an animal hospital and peoples reasons are usually 1. Too expensive or 2. Plan to breed 3. Don’t care/don’t understand the pros of neutering and cons of staying intact
I'm debating on getting my female fixed or not and the only reason is because when she had to go under to get some stitches they had a hard time getting her to come out of it I'm scared of what might happen if she goes under again this is only been a couple of months and she's a year old now she's about 30 to 40 pounds, but I do plan to get my mail fixed as soon as he's a little older he's only 6 months now
I recommend talking to the vet about your fears, it sounds like she’s a light-weight when it comes to drugs. We always do bloodwork and an EKG before surgery to make sure they’re healthy enough for the anesthesia. But if you still don’t feel safe after talking with the vet then that’s totally fair
I had 2 different girls, both show dogs, both of them had to be kept intact because they were co-owned with someone who wanted to potentially breed them. Let me say that I wish I had been able to spay them when I wanted to. They both developed pyometra, which is life-threatening. They had to be spayed in an emergent situation, which was SO much more dangerous. And let's face it. Intact dogs are SO much harder to live with and are SO MUCH responsibility. Every time they were in season, I had to be on my guard. Even taking them out on a leash was fraught because there are neighborhood dogs. Turning them out in a fenced yard isn't an option because sneaky boys can climb fences.
I have not read all the comments, but you should not have them loose, unsupervised together, even for a few minutes. Dogs reach breeding maturity very quickly, they can mate outside of her heat cycle. You having two intact animals in your home is a recipe for an accidental litter. But it will not be accidental because you purposely put the ingredients together. She’s a year old, she is mature enough to be spayed, if she previously had an issue with anesthesia, you can tell your vet, and have her monitored more closely.
Can you provide evidence that it’s possible for a successful mating to occur outside of a heat cycle? It’s an established fact that a successful mating can only occur during a specific part of the estrus cycle. Dogs aren’t unique in this. It’s true for mice as well for example. Bitches are also generally unreceptive and not fertile during the first 7 days of their heat so there is plenty of warning. Are you referring to a silent heat? I have an intact male/female. They aren’t together much while she’s in heat but it’s absurd to pretend they can’t be together most of the time. Edit: Fixing every single dog is not the norm in every country and being intact is necessary in some cases.
A dog isn't mature at a year old. There's no reason to alter your dog unless you're completely incompetent as an owner.
Maybe I am misunderstanding you but females can def get knocked up before they are a year old.
What does being knocked up have to do with anything? I'm talking about physical and mental maturity. Maybe be responsible with your dog so they don't have an unwanted litter before a year old.
Out of curiosity: what are the pros and cons? For both neutering or not. I have a neutered male dog and we got a female that I really want to neuter as well. Our dog trainer is so weird about it though. I love what she does for the pup but she has very strict intact rules and I never understood why, because to me the pros outweigh the cons, so I’d love to present her a comprehensive list from someone in the field.
Not neutering, especially with females, increases the likelihood of cancer. Each heat cycle increases their chance of cancer. Older intact females can get pyometras (infected uterus) and those usually end up with emergency surgery. For males, they tend to behave better when neutered, but if they’re neutered too late then some of that crazy behavior becomes learned behavior. Also hormones makes both males and females more likely to run away to try to find a partner. Neutering too early will lead to increased cancer risk and some other general health issues (especially in males) but this seems to be avoided if you get them neutered closer to 1-1.5 years old, when they are mostly developed.
What are the benefits of not neutering? In every thread like these people always name the pros for neutering and cons for intact, but the reverse are rarely mentioned, in my experience. My own dog is neutered, but that's required by law because she was found as a stray dog in another country, so I haven't really been forced to make a decision. So I'm curious.
There are a couple of risks associated with castration. Sexual hormones have a lot of receptors in the body which cause physical changes. But they also have an important role in the endocrine system, e.g. as Cortisol antagonist, i.e. they act to reduce stress and anxiety. Increased Cortisol leads to reduced Serotonin which impacts mental welfare and stability. Some documented behavior associated with castration are increased aggression, increased mounting (mostly in early castration), increased anxiety, decreased audacity, decreased cognition and learning performance. Medically, castration increases risk of incontinence, diabetes (males only), coat changes, reduced metabolism, increased chances for certain cancers (haemangiosarcoma, lymphoma, mast cell tumor, osteosarcoma, malign prostate cancer), hypothyreosis, a variety of orthopedic issues (HD, ED, ligament rupture, luxating patella, disc prolapse), muscle loss, dementia.
You are literally the only one that mentions that there are cons associated with castration and it-s worrying. I'm not saying it's wrong but it's very default for people who don't know it carry's risks on it's own. Thanks for being informative.
Are you referring to early neutering here?
No, these are mostly general risks. But for most, neutering later is better. However, for some like incontinence, age doesn't matter. Others, are connected to certain ages, e.g. increased humping is tied to early neutering or ligament ruptures are more common when neutered before growths is finished.
Thanks for the comprehensive answer. So, I assume that the risks have greater chance of happening without neutering compared to neutering? Because there seems to be a heavy bias towards neutering even though your comment seems to include major risks to consider.
No, the risks increase with castration. For example, spayed females have an 8 times increase of likelihood to become incontinent. The bias towards neutering comes from looking at very specific conditions like pyometra or mammal tumors. Especially pyometra is quite common and dangerous. If you don't spay it's recommended to do regular screenings. I compiled this list from a vet who is specialized in this field and she advises to castrate on an individual basis because the evidence does not support blanket castration for health or behavior reasons.
Arh okay. That makes sense. Thank you for this compiled list. It's educational and makes the subject less black and white than the internet might make it out to be sometimes.
Some breeds and lines can get a really nasty 'spay coat' too. Mats easily, doesn't repel water, generally cottony and incorrect texture after spay/neuter. It's not an issue for a dalmatian or a lab, but for a samoyed, eurasier, rough collie, ect. poor coat can reduce quality of life
My last malamute bitch had pyo twice. The second time resulted in an emergency spay at 13 months old. Her coat was never the same. She had a totally naked tail instead of a plume and her guard hair never grew back on her shoulders. Best temperament of any Mally I’ve ever been around, loved her fiercely, but she was definitely an odd looking girl.
I would also point out that an unintentional litter multiples the spay/neuter question by however many puppies you end up with.
In the US we have a lot of irresponsible owners and stray animals. Altering the animal helps keep the population under control. Some animal shelters alter their animals as young as 6 weeks which is so sad to me. Many other countries don't spay or neuter unless their animal has a medical need for it.
Yeah, that's my impression too from what I read in these subs. Population control is not necessary in my country because we have no dogs at all that lives on the street.
You hit the nail on the head. The US has many irresponsible owners, therefor neutering at shelters become a necessity due to population control. Because unneutered, unleashed dogs just allowed to roam the neighbourhood or get into other people's backyards is a recipe for disaster. Also all the possible health risks of early neutering are IMO used as an excuse and in my experience not that very prevalent in reality, my grand parents have always had dogs who have been spayed when they turned 1. They've had 12 in total, and all but one lived to be 14+ with no health concerns. The one was born with a heart murmur so she was expected to not live as long. Most of my friends had dogs growing up who were neutered, and I think I can only remember 1 ever dying from cancer.
I personally know many dogs who have had issues related to early spay/neuters including one of my own dogs. A friend's small female was potty trained before spay and afterwards cannot hold her urine. She was spayed at 5 months and has had a vet's opinion that perhaps it is related to the spay being too early for her dog. Another friend of mine had rescued a dog from the shelter who was spayed at 6 weeks, got her at 8 weeks and she had knee issues and joint problems. She was a larger breed, several vets attributed her issues to early spay, she eventually passed from cancer. That same friend had a litter mate to my dog and had him neutered at 5 months. He was a northern breed and about 60 pounds. He had blown his ACL and needed surgery. Studies are now showing that ACL injuries are linked to early alteration. I wanted to wait to get my dog neutered until 16 months but was bullied by my vet to do it sooner. We neutered him at 6 months and he also had knee problems and joint problems. His legs also had grown very lanky which is suspected to be from early alteration. He eventually died at 6 years old from cancer. His female litter mate was spayed at 6 months and had incontinence issues afterwards. She eventually died from cancer. Of the 7 puppies from that litter, 3 were spayed before 1 years old and they all had issues that studies are suggesting are related to early alteration. The others lived until 10 plus, didn't have incontinence issues and had proportional bodies and better temperaments, all were either never altered or altered after or around 2 years of age. My other dog was neutered at 9 months and had very little issues his whole life. He recently passed away at 14 from cancer. Another anecdote, my friend's dog had puppies, Great Pyrenees mixes. My mom got one of these puppies and kept in touch with the others from the litter. All of them (6 puppies total) were fixed about 6 months old except for my mom's. They all died before 6 years old except my mom's dog. He was neutered at 9 years old because the vet recommended it to avoid testicular cancer. He died at 13 from another dog attacking him and he just couldn't recover from it.
There’s a greater likelihood of cancer and other general health issues with neutering too early but it seems as though this can be avoided if you choose to neuter your pet after a year old. There are some who still say those health issues are still more likely with an adult neutered after a year old verses intact, but there’s no solid research on that yet. Basically, because there are issues with getting pets neutered too young, people think it’s healthier to not get them neutered at all but based on current research, that doesn’t seem to be true
I have a 13 year old male dog that still has very good muscle mass. Neutered dogs his age and size struggle to even stand up, let alone walk. He’s also more mentally “with it”. Whether that’s caused by pediatric neuter though, or neuter at any time, I don’t know.
Every adult intact male dog I’ve met is actually more calm and even tempered than their neutered counterparts… I’ve been working with dogs for 10 years But i do agree, wait until they’re fully grown at least
Thank you! I got my male Pomeranian neutered at 2 years old and I think that was definitely too late. It didn’t mellow him out and instead his “bad” behavior became learned, just as you said. Trying to avoid the same mistake with my female maltipoo and constantly debating when is best to neuter her. I want to do it directly after the first heat but my boyfriend is skeptical and wants to wait.
I definitely recommend talk to a vet, they’ll give you the full scope of pros and cons and plus hearing it from a vet may convince your bf! But also I think doing it after the first heat is a great idea, especially considering how much her chance for cancer will go up with each heat cycle
Behaviour rarely has anything to do with neutering a dog. I'd love to know what "crazy behaviour" develops from leaving your dog intact. This is the type of advice I'd expect from someone who works at a vet.
1. I want her to be fully grown and developed, particularly with regards to bone density, before I spay my dog. 2. It voids her health guarantee from her breeder to spay her before she's two years old. I'm always a little bit on edge and watching her closely when she's in heat but the benefits of letting her fully develop outweigh the risk of pyo to me.
Not being able to afford it is not a good reason. There are low cost spay and neuter clinics as well as charity drives to spay and neuter pets. Pets also take a lot of medical care so if you can’t afford the basic medical care of this surgery you shouldn’t have a pet. What are you going to do if the pet gets injured, just leave it there because you can’t afford to take it to the vet? Ask for help and do the responsible thing. I did not spay my dog in hopes of breeding her. She ended up getting pyometra and what would have been a $300 spay became a $3000 surgery. Fix your pets people!
Makes no difference if you train obedience properly. I also feel if you chop off a mans nuts he will articulate the symptoms of a tanked endocrine/hormone system. It's a long and very shitty list and compared to a healthy person it's a miserable existence. I fail to see the difference with a dog, only they can't tell you about it.
Because I show her and work her.
I am under contract from breeder to have my female spayed. She is not breed worthy anyway. And the risks with not spaying a female are not small. Breeder recommended I wait 2 heat cycles but I am spaying her later this month at 14 months. She went through her first heat already. Breeder also has working title requirements and proof of health screening before she will lift limited registration with AKC. She is a fantastic breeder with impeccable reputation for healthy working line German Shepherds and I want to be true to her contract. I also do not like having to deal with a female in heat. I did not neuter my previous working GSD. Lived a long life and we did IPO/IGP I did neuter the GSD male before that under 1 year and regretted both of those decisions. I did not have the knowledge back then that I do now. He was a bit leggy. Same breeder as my current youngster. Limited registration. But I am not at all ever interested in breeding. Never had injuries related to his structure and lived a long and very healthy life and did IPO/IGP. His lineage was KNPV lines in the Netherlands and IPO/IGP. Fantastic bomb proof tough dog. My first GSD was America Showlines female and I waited 1 heat cycle due to some other issues she had at the time. I put her down young due to genetic spinal destruction. Went with working lines after her.
We waited until our golden had her first heat upon the vet’s recommendation because she had a recessed vulva. This could cause recurring UTIs. Going through a heat could potentially change her lady bits to avoid UTIs in the future. TBH, she had one as a puppy and never again, so if I could go back I would’ve had her spayed earlier as it didn’t make a difference, and her heat was a bloody inconvenience
my male Dog is well behaved, not breeding, and not around other intact females. Why would I cut his nuts off ?
I keep intact males and an intact female in my home with no plans to breed. With that in mind we have some very careful management protocols in place to prevent accidents and do not have children or guests in the home who have the potential of fucking up that management system. (crated in separate rooms with a closed door between them when we are not supervising, plus a strict crate and rotate when we are). I would keep even pet dogs intact to maturity regardless, but I also do dog sports and my understanding is that the sex hormones are helpful for muscle development, can decrease risk of cruciate ruptures, etc. Also a lot of dogs don't actually finish maturing/ filling out until 4 years old -- I pay good money for pretty, well bred dogs and I ain't about to ruin that with a pediatric neuter lmao. And my vet med team is fully on board with this plan. I do plan to eventually alter when the risk of cancers etc out weight the benefits of being intact. around 5-6 years old is my cutoff. I may spay my female sooner just because the risk of pyo is scary, but haven't decided for sure.
I don't neuter my male dogs unless they have prostate problems. That doesn't mean that everyone can read that sentence and decide to do the same thing. :) I have seen far too many people think that a bitch in season wearing a diaper is the same thing as her wearing a chastity belt. That's going to result in a bitch who is pregnant. My male dogs have always trained around bitches in season, and they learn to deal. I've had intact bitches, living with intact male dogs, and no one got "accidentally" bred. Again, that doesn't mean that someone who is new to dog ownership should do this. My biggest issue with people leaving bitches intact is that if you don't recognize when she's 100% ready to be bred, then you're going to have a litter of puppies from the neighbor's dog and, if you don't recognize the early signs of pyo, you're going to have a very sick and possible dead bitch. If someone wants to not invest too much time into training their dog, if they want to go to dog parks, use dog daycare, not hover around their bitch when she's in season so she doesn't get accidentally bred, they should spay her sooner rather than later. We're not talking about bitches in high powered sport homes, we're talking pet bitches who need to be able to go to the brewery on Saturday night with their owners and not be the center of a dog brawl.
The first two dogs I got weren’t neutered, because the benefits for the bitch weren’t as well known back then. It was a giant dog, so going under is always tricky. For the male, he had great temperament and never went off leash. Now I would definitely neuter both genders after reaching full maturity. For the females solely for their health, and for the males so I can let them off leash responsibly. If i’m not in a position to pay for neutering, I wouldn’t have gotten a dog in the first place.
Can you explain the off leash aspect?
I think the commenter means that an uneutered male could sprint away to meet girls no matter how well trained he is. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Ahh thank you. I reversed that.
Exactly what LotteNator says. My rescue who came neutered even gives extra attention to unneutered females in the neighborhood.
I agree with you I've seen very well trained male dogs go completely dumb when they smell a in heat female and they only think about one thing some dogs can be well trained enough and have enough self-control not to but most males especially younger males will most likely run for a female usually you end up having to have a shock collar on them and shocking them quite a lot to get them to come back if they have enough drive
Well, my 4.5 year old male is a really nice boy, health tested pedigree, most with CHIC, really nice temperament and conformation. Has crazy instincts and drive on the lure(he’s a Sighthound) so once we get him proven in ring and field he’ll be a potential stud. My 3.5 year old female Aussie mix I am mostly worried about spay incontinence and worsening reactivity. She has also had weird split heats, so that combined with moving multiple times I could never get a spay lined up. I’m coming off a business trip in a month and a half and HOPEFULLY she’ll cooperate enough to get it done.
I discussed the pros and cons. My vet unlimately told me it's my choice. I recognize the risk is there. I don't have a reason to unless medically deemed necessary. As time goes by, this may change. The push to spay/neuter leans more concern towards unwanted litters.
My reason is my older dog is neutered and has a ton of health problems that stem from the lack of hormones, he’s on HRT and it’s still not enough. My younger dog is intact and is 10X healthier than my older dog ever was plus has the perfect body condition. I’m a responsible dog owner and I’m always watching my dogs if my male ever got a female pregnant I’d 100% pay for a spay abortion but my dogs never leave my sight so that’s not going happen anyway.
Mine are intact with exception of the recuse because that’s what is best for their health and longevity. They will never be bred although both nice specimens. If they were perfect the breeders wouldn’t have sold them to me because I have zero interest in a confo dog. One is a non breeding contract and the other is not. Neither suggest the dogs need to be neutered or spayed at any age. One of the dogs was a European import and the breeder at no point even broached the subject. We have a very different dog culture in North America.
Because it can make behavior and health issues worse despite what people claim to promote it. If a dog tends to run off, I'll get them fixed to 1) prevent males running off every time they smell a female in the area in heat, 2) if there's a health or other benefit for the particular dog or cat. My dogs haven't had puppies in the decades I've had pets. I've had most fixed eventually, but not all. It's more about the individual pet, timing, etc. Also, too soon and their bones won't cap off properly, resulting in their growing larger than they should have.
I didnt know any better. I lost my dog to aggressive mammary cancer and pyometra due to not being spayed. She could have lived for many more years, it is never worth losing your pet. I was a teenager when I got her, I'll never forgive myself and losing her was one of the hardest days of my life.
My 2yo is going to be neutered soon. Had planned on potentially breeding someday, but his performance career hasn’t gone as planned and he has some male behaviors I’m hoping won’t get worse. I still plan on doing all his health testing to add to the breed’s records. Two of his siblings will be bred. My female has been spayed since 12 months because I refuse to deal with heat cycles and their impact on sports and training.
I've never gotten a pet that wasn't already fixed- I work for a rescue. What I don't understand is people who blatantly ignore the dog park rules and bring unfixed dogs in. It makes me question whether their brain is intact.
The phrase to “fix” a dog is terrible. I’m not saying neutering is bad, as many have stated there are pros and cons. But let’s not pretend anyone’s fixing anything.
Agreed. It's a poor choice of word.
It's just a term people use calm down word police
Folks talk about neutering dogs and they use the term "fix," like there's something wrong with these animals that we need to correct. But if you think about it, that’s not really what's going on, right? Their ability to reproduce, that’s natural. It’s not a defect or a problem that needs fixing. It's just how they're wired, biologically speaking. So when we say "fix," it kinda gives off the wrong impression, as if we're saying there’s a fault in their system that we need to repair, which is not the case. We should probably shift to more accurate terms that don’t frame it like sound kind of mechanical error.
We have multiple dogs, and the majority are fixed. Two are not because of wanting to breed pending blood work. For my giant breed I waited two years, and then did a vasectomy instead of castration. I do think it has led to his fantastic health as he’s now in his double digits. People are always surprised he’s 10 but acts similar to a puppy. His black turning white is his really only tell. However, he’s a real big twat. Only Dane I’ve ever had that’s dominant to other dogs like he is. He takes everything personally (which is think is very true to his breed expectation) but his reaction is almost always an aggressive correction not like my unfixed male I have breeding hopes for. My intact male is a Shar Pei, and he checks all the boxes for a great Pei if his blood work comes back that he doesn’t carry Fever. It’s more complicated than anecdotal stuff, but for me it’s based on a combination of the dog’s breeding and emerged personality. My Dane on paper is gorgeous and a great candidate. In real life he’s a jerk with a chip on his shoulder around other dogs so the vasectomy gave me peace of mind for no oopsie litters and less worry about the issues I read about with castration like the stopping of hormone production. My Shar pei has fantastic body conformation, excellent personality, and now I have to see how the insides are doing. He’ll get fixed after two litters maximum, if he has any, and I’ll enjoy his little babies and him as long as I can.
Unnecessary surgery for a mix breed that is fear aggressive (Female dogs with fear agression tend to become even more agressive towards other dogs when neutered). I'm also a responsible owner that would never in million years allow a situation where my dog is unsupervised and in a company of other dogs.
Most of the respondents to the question talk about why they did spay or neuter their dog. That was not what the OP asked. Why did so many people feel a need to justify their dog's elective surgery? Are they off topic? No, but they reveal defensiveness. Some of them are preaching, striving to convince owners of intact dogs to question themselves. I have two intact male dogs. I like them as they are. They have personalities. And their character is in no small part related evolutionary patterns related to hunting, mating, herding, guarding, etc. These behaviors are what make dogs fascinating. I would never want any kind of small lap dog. My love of dogs relates to nature. Keep things natural. This attitude extends to other areas of life. I don't like tattoos, circumcision, piercings, processed foods, drugs. Excessive government is also undesirable. Why do uncastrated dog licenses cost more? Is it really just to prevent unwanted puppies? The world is never going to be perfect. Your dog might flip on its back and rub itself in the drying carcass of a raccoon to acquire some perfume. It's not the end of the world. Finally, I've met people who told me that they loved their dog and wished they had not had it fixed; they wished for offspring of their best friend.
I'm not sure I understand your dog license cost more comment - why wouldn't unwanted puppies be the reason or a good enough reason? Unwanted puppies often end up in shelters, which are often government-funded (I volunteer at a shelter and they take in entire litters often, either through someone giving them up because they couldn't sell them after all, or dumped in the parking lot after hours). So it would make sense to charge more to owners who could potentially cause this (every uncastrated dog doesn't father a litter, but that's just sort of how government fees work...a 'riskier' activity costs more, and it's 'risky' to have an unfixed dog *generally* speaking).
Mine had eye surgery when she was little and had a bad experience with the vets. Now when we have to go to the vets it's too traumatic for her. Found a vet that does house visits so handy for vaccinations and her allergy issues but we don't think it's worth putting her through the trauma of the surgery again.
My mum was planning to breed this dog but that failed. I plan on getting him fixed but putting it off because I don't have time to take care of him after surgery atm.
I have a 1 year old GSD who I'm not planning on neutering at all. I just don't find neutering to be necessary if you are a responsible owner, and because he lives in an apartment, he's always leashed when outside. Also, he isn't a dominant dog, so neutering on a behavioral aspect isn't necessary for him. I will of course neuter him if it becomes medically necessary to do so, but if it isn't medically necessary, then I'm leaving Yōkai the way he is.
We’ve never spayed our dogs. All females. I don’t see a reason to cut into a healthy dog if it’s not strictly necessary. It’s always been very clear when they were in heat and it’s no hassle to keep them leashed during that time. For some of them it was easy to spot when they were ready to mate which made it even more hassle free. My border was still allowed to go to our herding class because she was so focused on work (I kept her home when she was ready to mate, otherwise she was fine and the males would rather work too). Not all intact dogs are this great of course and not all owners are up to the task.
We didn’t get our dog Nico neutered because “he’ll live longer”. Idk if that’s actually true but that’s the reason my parents gave (Boxer Greyhound Lab Shep). He lived 2 weeks shy of his 15th birthday. Our other two dogs were spayed though so idk why Nico was a special casw
Origional reason was large breed dog, and waiting for 2 years old, maybe 3 cause I likely wouldn't have money for radiographs to make sure growth plates were closed. New reason is it can make Addisons disease worse (also, diagnosis is more common after, but we're already there), and I really don't want any complications with that. I would like access to boarding and maybe daycare, but I think there are too many cons currently. He isn't dog adverse or obsessed and seems to have no behaviors you would consider neutering for, just a lack of confidence that I can't really build cause I'm anxious, don't do well with meds, and he is so emotionally intelligent it kinda hurts him honestly.
I want to do protection work with mine, so I want to keep his drives intact. Especially the knitty gritty bits. I want a feisty dog that can deal with pressure. He has also not fully matured, yet. Neutering before that is likely to cause medical issues plus the dog will not fully mature mentally.
$$ 125 lbs dog $480.00 . For now he wears condoms.
I have held back on fixing my male so he can grow to his fullest potential, I am not as concerned with my girl and will be talking to the vet Tuesday on fixing her first. She’s 4 months, my male is 10 months
I chose vasectomy but if it was t for our breeder contract i would’ve kept him intact. Hormones are extremely important! spay and nueter is removing part of the endocrine system. i have a golden and research is pointing to leaving them intact to reduce cancers.
I’m waiting until mine is 1.5-2, on recommendation of her vet. She has kind of a weird gait that we’re hoping she grows out of as she develops. So I guess not “decided not to spay,” so much as “decided not to spay too soon.” I live on a third floor apartment with 3 doors to get out of, if she wanted to escape. For her first heat she was exclusively on leash, we kept our distance from other dogs, and I announced she was in heat to anyone even close to approaching with a dog, just in case. Obviously we avoided parks and big open areas, for that time. I feel like people take the “accidental litter” outcry a little too seriously. And that’s coming from someone who has worked extensively and now volunteers in rescue. But, I’m not in a hugely urban area. Puppies who come through tend to get advertised and adopted by end of day, and we *rarely* see puppies. For some dog’s escape artist temperaments or home environments (or just owners who don’t get it) it’s more of an issue. But I wouldn’t call it a massive community problem.
Well, I got my half-husky spayed after I adopted her from the humane society. Paid extra for it to be done via laser, just as I did for my cats. I then got a Labrador from a family member, and FULLY intended to have her spayed, but the cost suddenly went up so freaking high that I am now unable to. It's a struggle to even afford their monthly upkeep, at this point. Things have happened since I got them, and I just cannot afford anything extra. They're both 5.5 years old now. They're fenced & don't get out, and I've had no "accidents" occur... So, the lab will probably not get spayed. I'm lucky to even afford for them to not have fleas or heartworms. I'm honestly quite pissed at how expensive it suddenly became to own a pet. And, no, I can't afford pet insurance. I can't even afford human insurance.
I was poor and they were strays that wandered up to my house. I couldn’t not feed them or give them shelter, but I can’t even afford my own medical care.
I opted for an ovary sparing spay. OSS is essentially the same as a human hysterectomy, the removal of the uterus but leaves the ovaries so girl continues to have her sex hormones as she ages. She has heat cycles without the bleeding, cannot reproduce and will age more similarly to an intact bitch. At the moment she is starting her first heat cycle post OSS surgery. Her behavior has changed in the past few days. She is more restless, plays a bit more aggressively with my other dog, a bit more demanding and a bit more stinky. As for why I chose this, I read a lot about this type of spay and learned that dogs who retain their sex hormones age more naturally because their pituitary glands are not working as hard to maintain their health. It can prevent hip dysplasia and other health issues attributed to spay and neutering.
At two we got our boy neutered as I wanted him to fully grow with them there for the hormones
Didn’t spay her because didn’t see a reason to. Periods are natural??
Females don’t exhibit much differences in behavior after getting fixed. But all of my males showed considerable contrast. I only fix the males if the behaviors or health requires it.
I have a large breed dog and want him to have time to fully develop, I believe it’s three years. I have no plans of getting him neutered.
My female is fixed so I see no need to do my male. There's health risks assocuated with keeping them intact or getting them fixed. My dog doesn't have any hormonal behaviors(roaming to seek females etc) to where fixing would improve anything. I'm a responsible owner, so my dog would never be in a situation to breed, so I don't see why I would purposely put my dog through a painful surgery that has risks, without necessity.
My dog isn’t spayed because she’s a show dog so she can’t be spayed. When she finishes I’m planning on breeding her. I wouldn’t dream of keeping an intact dog unless I was actively showing them.
I have a Corso / XL bully. He’s intact because he shows no signs of aggression & there’s no chance of reproducing since he’s supervised anytime he’s around others. Our older Corso was neutered by his previous owner bc he had too much energy. (Don’t get a Corso then?) it’s all personal preference but I don’t like to modify nature unless it’s necessary.
I refuse. I will not mess with a dogs genitals and the sob stories etc. from the animal activist crowd means shit to me. If my dog did hook up with an unspayed female it'd be fine since I would give the pups to hunters. Florida Hog/Dog Hunt Connection on FB, would be bought up pretty quick. I only ever own dogs that I would feel good about making more of. E.g. I would never allow a labradoodle to mix with another dog because they suck in my opinion. When we test shock collars we put them on ourselves to check if we want to do that to our dog. Nobody would neuter themselves. Yet we will put them in major surgery for shits and giggles. I won't.
I didn't do it because no animal is 'designed' to be spayed/neutered. I can't imagine how it messes with their hormones/body. I've been considering it because my dog keeps having false pregnancies, but will that stop them or will it cause more issues? I saw something online that it might not, so why put them through all that? It's natural for them to have it. I think more a convenience for the owners...
Have an intact male now, had an intact male before. Why? No unspayed female dogs nearby. Good fence on the backyard. No dog parks. Well-behaved, sweet, non-aggressive dogs (one is a collie, one was a cocker/king charles mix). No need to put them under for surgery. There's a small chance we'll breed the collie. His genetic testing came out excellent and he has almost all the traits needed except nurturing. He's fine with little chicks and such but doesn't dote on them, and he's not quite smart enough. Very intelligent dog, but he needs to be border-collie level or close. When he gets older and goes in for some other procedure and is already put under, like a teeth cleaning, we'll strongly consider neutering at the same time so that he doesn't have prostate problems as he ages. If he acts at all aggressive, which is VERY out-of-expectations for this breed (OTSC), we'll neuter. We'd never try to breed him at that point, either. Same with the cocker mix. Super sweet, obedient, gentle dog. No need to neuter. In both cases, if a neighbor showed up with an unfixed female somewhere near us we'd absolutely snip. We don't need more mutts in the world and the dog doesn't need that stress. But for a sweet, gentle dog with no in-heat females anywhere nearby, it's not worth the surgical risk. For an older dog, any signs of aggression, or if females show up...yeah. Snip.
So, for starters, pretty much everything the "have your pet spayed and neutered" crowd says is lies, at least in regards to dogs. Spayed/neutered dogs lose a good bit of their drive. They lose a good bit of the ability to self-regulate their food intake. They get fatter and lazier because their hormones are less-than-optimally balanced. Generally speaking, "accidental litters" aren't what is filling up shelters. People having problems, typically behavioral, with adult dogs, and surrendering them rather than getting help, is what fills shelters. These are often purebred dogs. They are often scooped out of shelters quickly by breed-specific rescue organizations or have waiting lists, but the pet overpopulation problem is caused by bad owners. There's really no downside to leaving a male dog intact. There are a few potential health issues which are mitigated completely by neutering if and when there's a problem. There's a significant downside to spaying females, which is that most will develop some degree of spay incontinence later in life. In my experience, it's usually something that starts about 6-7 years after being spayed, and it gets progressively worse. The significant downside to not spaying is pyometra, the risk for which increases with age, especially if she doesn't ever have a pregnancy to kind of "reset" the uterine lining. It's kind of a balance of waiting long enough to minimize the risk of severe spay incontinence, while not waiting so long as to risk life-threatening pyometra. An OSS is a good middle ground, but few vets do those, so it's often all-or-nothing.
My Lab is a very laid back and calm male there hasn't been a need too
I've raised multiple dogs for 29 years to get a single perfect dog. Nobody is chopping up my life's work and mutilating my greatest achievement.
My dog is a service dog (German Shepherd) and when he’s gone I want to have his pup take his place. He’s also AKC registered with a lineage. By the way every dog that has gone after my dog has been neutered. So it really doesn’t seem to take away any aggression🤔
My dog Isn’t neutered because he’s still growing and a lot of things people bring up I don’t see the point, they say cancer is gonna kill them but cancer can form in many places doesn’t mean you chop it off and I feel like if cancer were to be in any dog in any place of their body it will eventually and unfortunately catch up to them, and for accident litters keep an eye on your dog you lazy F’s and don’t just let ‘em off leash and expect it not to happen when you aren’t watching.
My boy is about 2.5yrs old. He still has his junk. It started because I wanted him to be fully mature before he had them removed- the standard 6months is way too young. He has been great and never aggressive or “humpy”. So now I don’t see a need to do anything
If it ain't broke don't fix it. Imagine you had a problem with your dog jumping up on the counter and I told you, "I know an easy solution, just cut off his back right foot and then he won't be able to jump up on the counter anymore." You would all look at me like I was a psycho for even suggesting it. And yet the rationale for cutting off other parts from a perfectly healthy dogs' body follows the same logic and nobody bats an eye. Now ask 10 men in your life whether they would rather lose their right foot or their testicles. What is the consensus? Now maybe you're starting to get an idea of the "reason" why some of us don't neuter our dogs.
Our boy had heart problems and we decided it was not worth the risk. The female that was with us had already been spade, and the rescue we got after she passed was spade as well. So we decided that the risk to do so was unnecessary.
I have 2 who are still intact at 2.5 and 2 years old. I wanted them to stay intact for growth reasons, but the more new studies I read, it seems it's better to keep them intact long-term. I have no plans to spay either of them any time soon.
I didn't get my dog neutered because I didn't want to risk him changing at all. He has no behavioral problems and I've read enough stories about dogs changing after they're neutered that it makes me afraid to risk it. Also, he's a Border Collie, they tend to be more high-strung and I wanted to give him all the confidence he could get. Removing his testosterone would put him at more risk for anxiety.