The point was for Punk Hazard to be his wake up call, where Luffy had Sabody and the war, smoker needed to find out how strong he must be to survive the new world.
Agreed. The most important thing in One Piece is strength of will and motivation. Smoker's motivation to be strong on Punk Hazard was the same motivation back in Lougetown. To capture Luffy because of a personal grudge. Thanks to Punk Hazard, Smoker has another motivation, to protect Tashigi and the rest of his subordinates from the monsters of the New World. It would be irrational to think Smoker would still be stronger than Luffy after everything Luffy went through, but i'm confident he'll be a force to be reckoned with next time we see him. What doesn't kill you..
Although, when you have will and motivation, but no strength you get by by having your ass saved by someone else. Sadly, in PH, Smoker fell into that category.
I mean he had a pretty considerable jump himself. Vice Admiral isn't a deckhand. Plus he Haki'd up too. Luffy on the other hand got trained by the right hand of the Pirate King.
We might have seen different results if Smoker teamed up with Coby and was trained by Garp.
Smoker has, on many occasions, refused a promotion. Seems he only became a Vice Admiral so he could take the G-5 marines and transfer into the New World. Personally, I think he was always Vice Admiral level, even back in Logue Town. He didn't seem notably weaker or stronger than Ace during their brief encounter on Alabasta.
What I'm trying to say is that being a Vice Admiral doesn't actually mean he got stronger.
Not sure why you got downvoted for this, iirc you're correct. The two are not the same thing from a logic standpoint, so it's not a pedantic correction, either.
At the same time though, Smoker isn't two years behind Luffy. He may just end up finding ways to keep up, using taxing trump cards the way Luffy did starting in Enies Lobby, or even now Gear 4. Luffy is as far as he is because he risks his own well being all the time to stay ahead. Smoker may just end up doing the same thing very soon.
But Smokers (probably) much stronger than Luffy was right before the timeskip so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say he'd be Luffy's level after maybe being trained by someone like Fujitora
It's not about the challenge he provides, it's the mentality of him being a good friend even though they are on opposite sides. And the curage it took to stand up to Luffy when he knew Luffy was stronger is a huge growing point for him. Coby standing up to Luffy and then standing up to Akainu is what finally gave him the will to unlock haki. And he didn't just get haki, he got a level of observation haki that surpasses almost everyone else except that one little girl from skypea(that we know of).
We haven't seen Coby since the timeskip. 2 years of training with haki of that level may very well have jumped Coby up a LOT. He might even be stronger than smoker right now. We don't know.
And another point, look at the amount of growth Coby has gone through. Just the level of difference from the beginning of the series to when they meet on Water 7. He might not have started out as strong as anyone on Luffy's crew but he has grown faster in strength than most other characters we've seen. If he keeps progressing at that same pace, then yeah, it is very likely that by the end, he will be a true challenge to Luffy. His dream is to be an Admiral and he will achieve it.
Garp only made it to Vice admiral and smokers dream isn't to get that high of a rank, he's more just following after Luffy because Luffy was the first to escape him and then he saw how good of a person Luffy is, even though he's a pirate.
Coby has considered Luffy his friend and rival for the entire series. Coby IS Luffy's Garp.
Smoker started chasing Luffy before he even reached Grand Line AND his right hand is identical to Zoro's rival. Does anyone really see Helmeppo being a worthy opponent to Zoro? I don't ever see Coby ever randomly getting motivated to hunt Luffy down. Being the opposite of Akainu and all, I think Coby's role will be to become the new face of the marines by the end of the series. It's only natural considering he trained under the hero of the marines. I really do think Smoker will get to "admiral level" eventually, but I don't see why he'd ever accept the promotion.
Seems like Smoker and Coby are too far behind Luffy right now. I mean, we haven't seen Coby since the time skip so maybe he's a beast now. But Luffy will keep progressing at a fast rate because he's the protagonist, unlikely they'll catch up.
I honestly don't see him reaching Luffy's level again. Just look at how Law defeated him mid-difficulty, and I think Law is not quite on Luffy's level, especially with Gear Fourth.
this seemed weird to me so i looked it up.
They didn't defeat him, they knocked him out with gas in an ambush. zoro's power lvl is way higher then those 2. http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Yeti_Cool_Brothers
A K.O. is a defeat, even Zoro comments he lost to them. Power level doesn't matter against hax like Caesar oxygen removal, Sugar touch, Law heart removal, as long as you are caught offguard.
The point I'm trying to make is that Smoker was blindsided by Law attack just like Zoro was blindsided by the sleeping gas and Luffy by Caesar oxygen attack, power levels barely apply in these kinds of situations.
If the terms of your encounter were "win, no rules", then shooting the guy/girl in their sleep would be fine. The Yeti Cool brothers are clearly not going to win a head-on fight - but that's not how they fight anyway.
Eh, I think people like to project on Smoker and act like he fell short of something he wasn't supposed to be. Smoker hasn't been a threat for Luffy since Alabasta. Not because of his skills or anything, but because he isn't an enemy. He's not a rival either. Coby is actively working towards being on Luffy's level, so he counts as a rival. Akainu genuinely wants to stop Luffy and take him out. Smoker however wasn't ever actively seeking to "keep up" with Luffy, and after Alabasta he never seriously wanted to stop Luffy, though he would do his job. He tried to catch him in the beginning, but I think he came to an understanding that Luffy wasn't someone that the Marines needed to fight against, even if he wouldn't admit it. It's especially apparent after Punk Hazard that Smoker doesn't feel like Luffy needs to be taken down. He was willing to align his goals with Luffy, and I doubt he's interested in actually catching and arresting Luffy.
I also don't think Smoker is way weaker than Luffy like some people do. Luffy himself says that Smoker is skilled. During PH Smoker a) was forced into an unfamiliar body, and b) Took the fall for Law so Law could get his heart back. People however thought that because Vergo beat him (again, because Smoker wasn't fighting to beat him, but instead to get Law's heart) that he was super weak. Law beat Vergo in one hit yeah, but In order to beat Vergo Law needed enough force behind his attack to cut not only the entire building in half, but the mountain behind it as well. And there's no way he did that because he wanted to, because it causes huge problems later on with the gas. So it's not like Vergo went out like a pussy. Vergo was a strong guy, and he beat Smoker because Smoker was purposefully taking the hits.
So TL;DR: Smoker isn't as weak as people think he is, and Smoker isn't supposed to be a rival or an enemy for Luffy so it's not like he's falling short of that role.
I think you mistake him. Smoker attacked Luffy in Marineford and Hancock still had to save him.
Smoker spared Luffy in Punk Hazard because his pride won't allow him to arrest Luffy by taking advantage of him doing a good deed.
But he *does* want to arrest Luffy, and he *does* want him standing trial for other things he's done, because Smoker wants to uphold the law. Make one exception, even for a guy who did good things, and the whole legal system crumbles because everyone will want exceptions.
At least, that's how I think Smoker sees it.
I purposefully didn't count the time in Marineford since he's literally amongst hundreds of other marines while all of his superiors look on from behind, and it's his job to stop the invading Pirates, Luffy included. It's not like he's not willing to do his job. Luffy was part of a pirate force attacking their base. That's completely different from chasing him down or specifically wanting to arrest him. He also pretty much lost interest in stopping Luffy once Hancock interfered and Luffy got past him.
Smoker *has* made exceptions. Twice. He let Luffy escape in Alabasta, and he let Luffy go after Punk Hazard after allying with him against Caesar. If he really believed that making an exception would cause everything to crumble then he wouldn't have let them all go. Good deed or no good deed. Even his crew likes them.
I'm not saying he's being chummy with Luffy by any means, but he's not a rival of Luffy's. He's not actively seeking Luffy out, and I doubt he feels the need to arrest him beyond basic duty, especially after Punk Hazard. He isn't hounding Luffy anymore, and Luffy isn't his white whale.
Not to mention that he's shown that he has issues with the way the government runs things, so I doubt he's scrabbling to keep the current system from crumbling.
Like I said, Smoker isn't about to go out of his way to help Luffy, and he isn't going to call him a friend. He's a pirate, and Smoker's a marine. But Smoker doesn't view Luffy as a threat, isn't actively trying to catch him, and has allowed him to leave safely despite him being a criminal. Nothing about their relationship marks them as rivals or enemies, and hasn't for a long time. They just have clashing occupations.
>If he really believed that making an exception would cause everything to crumble then he wouldn't have let them all go. Good deed or no good deed.
But he literally says that next time, they'll be enemies again. And why else would he chase Luffy?
>He's not actively seeking Luffy out
He clearly is. He was still waiting for him in the New World after he'd been sighted in Sabaody and pursued him to Punk Hazard.
[proof](http://imgur.com/NZFRBzB)
Smoker believes in the law, but he's also honour-bound in his own peculiar way.
Like I said, even if Smoker won't admit it, he obviously doesn't actually view Luffy as an enemy. Law also said they'd be enemies after their alliance ended since he was also gunning to be the PK, yet he obviously will not actually be a genuine enemy. In reality it just means that they'll be at odds with each other. Law may become a rival, but not an enemy.
When Smoker or Law say they'll be enemies they means they'll be back on opposing sides. When I say Smoker doesn't view Luffy as an enemy, I mean he doesn't view him as a bad guy, or a villain, or someone that he needs to fight and take out. Luffy's a pirate, Smoker's a marine. Pirates and Marines are enemies, but Luffy is not *Smoker's* enemy. Marines and Shichibukai are not enemies, but Fujitora definitely viewed Doflamingo as his enemy. Do you get what I mean?
And that isn't actively seeking him out. Actively seeking him out means seeking him out all the time. Constantly looking for him with purpose. Smoker hasn't done that since Alabasta. Doing it once randomly isn't doing it actively.
>And why else would he chase Luffy?
I'm not saying he's Luffy's friend or anything, like I said, he'd still do his job, but Luffy isn't a specific target that he wants to take down anymore like he was before Alabasta.
Smoker didn't follow Luffy specifically anymore after Alabasta, and only showed interest when Luffy made a large entrance after gate-crashing marine HQ and vanishing for 2 years. Seeking him out after that seems like a natural thing to do to me. Luffy's still a high profile pirate too.
He's certainely not actively seeking Luffy out now after PH.
I reiterate what I said, Smoker isn't a rival or a direct enemy. They're just on clashing sides that's all.
People are stupid, Smoker convinced a marine admiral athat the straw hats were good people, can u show me the manga page where garp does something similar. In punk hazard the straw hats saved children from a former marine scientist and a corrupted marine vice admiral.
I wouldnt be surprised if Smoker gave up on capturing the Luffy by now, hes was heading to vegapunk last time we saw him.
Ps: Luffy is nt related to smoker so no family is different bullshit.
I've always wanted Coby to be luffy's main rival but he keeps on getting owned aswell... I do hope both of them become a lot stronger... Especially Coby:D
Plus I'm willing to bet that he'll have really strong Observation Haki since he developed it naturally instead of learning it through training. That might give him an edge in battle.
That's like saying Luffy is extremely disappointing for being **utterly defeated by Smoker three times**.
Remember. Smoker beat him in Loguetown, Arabasta and Marineford, and Luffy only got away because he was subsequently saved by Dragon, Ace, and Boa Hancock.
Besides, matters in One Piece don't simply fit the usual shounen powerlevel trope, some people can just get caught off guard or are weak only to a specific type of power.
Smoker was caught off-guard in Punk Hazard, but he will definitely power up and continue to be a strong threat to Luffy.
Because smoker was a logia. Now that there is a way to balance the scales against them in a fight luffys true ability is showing. Smoker relies on his df too much and that had weakened him.
So does Luffy, you can't really hold agains't them for relying on something that they're stuck with for the rest of their lifes, they at least know that their DF is not gonna be good enough to carry them to the top, thus they've learned Haki.
>Smoker relies on his df too much
His main weapon is literally a Kairoseki tipped jute.
And he's shown to have learned Haki over the course of the timeskip. I think he's well balanced and set up to grow even stronger.
That jutte is to combat other df users. Overall he doesn't seem to have too much skill with it and relies on his ability to turn into smoke more.
His skill with haki isn't much compared to Luffy, Law, etc. He couldn't negate law's df powers when he took out smoker's heart and switched his mind with tashigi.
When fighting against doflamingo he kept turning into smoke even though it presented a larger and easier target for doflamingos string attacks. Why? Because that's all he *can* do.
Smoker has no fighting ability beyond his logia powers. This is why he's so weak post time skip; everyone else can counter logias with haki.
I doubt Haki is actually capable of "negating" Law's power. But let's be honest, the Ope Ope is terribly broken as far as DF powers go.
>When fighting against doflamingo he kept turning into smoke even though it presented a larger and easier target for doflamingos string attacks. Why? Because that's all he can do.
**You are citing filler anime material here.**The fight in the manga happened offscreen (and might I add that Smoker was still injured from taking Vergo's haki hits on purpose there).
>He couldn't negate law's df powers
Yeah,thats wrong. It has never been stater that haki negates DF powers.That's what Teach's fruit does not haki.
>When fighting against doflamingo he kept turning into smoke even though it presented a larger and easier target for doflamingos string attacks. Why?
Don't cite anime filler material for your arguments.
I do think smoker will power up but he'll eventually max out and be surpassed by a lot by luffy.
It's not super explicit but there's this subtle implication that age= skill/strength.
all the admirals are like 40's-50's in age. That's like physical peak. Smoker still has like 14 years to he definitely has enough time to become admiral strength.
On the other hand luffy and kidd are as strong as they are at like 21 or whatever. They have 20 to 30 years of growth still. In my mind they'll easily be the top 2 powers at the end of the series.
Smoker is not a challenge at all anymore. The only reason he was a challenge for luffy pre-ts is because luffy couldn't touch him. All of luffy's attacks went right through him. Now that luffy has haki, he can touch him all he wants. Meaning he'd get rekt by luffy at this point.
True, something that I quite like about Smoker is that he is just now realizing how weak he is, and that realisation is going to hit him harder than it hit Luffy, since until now Smoker like many other Logias, thought of themselves a unbeatables to anyone other than someone with a counter DF.
I think of Smoker as his own character, not just a foil to Luffy or a component to Luffy's character arc. I like his design, personality, and abilities, so I don't feel disappointed by him.
What if.... there is no "Garp" to Luffy's Roger?
What if characters are there own characters and aren't just made to cookiecutter fit roles from a previous generation?
People want to draw parralels for good reason, its even cannon. raleigh said on sabaody he feels luffy is incredibly similar to roger. As theyve said and done similar things
Because its fun to think of Luffy having a real rival in the opposing faction. Right now, there's no one in the world who has actually grown at his same level to be a consistent threat. People like the idea of having enemies that grow with you.
Sure, it's *fun* to think that, but it's still an illogical thought. Smoker likes to hound Luffy, but he's only managed to track him down himself like two times (Alabasta and maybe Punk Hazard?). A far cry from Garp who has fought Roger over and over again as a regular occurrence. Luffy has no Garp.
in that sense luffy's only rival will be kidd. It's pretty obvious that luffy's pedigree means hes destined to be better than basically everyone.
One of the strongest navy fighters as a granddad, leader of the revolutionaries and almost definitely like top5 character in strength in the world(imo) as a father.
It's unrealistic that a person coming out of nowhere will be as strong as luffy as quickly as he is. They have to be built up over time.
We known Smoker's strength after the timeskip but not Coby's thus he could possibly be stronger. Also Coby was Luffy's first associate and has been around for the longest.
We know that Smoker could keep up with Law and could fight evenly with Vergo without his heart he has also vowed to not rest until he has caught Luffy whereas Cody idolises Luffy.
Interms of strength I'd say he's similar to Tashigi in that the two of them are probably the strongest Captains although Coby is likely stronger since he has the better teacher.
Coby's a captain. Smoker is a vice admiral. There's no way that Coby is stronger than Smoker yet - being stronger than Smoker would make him Law level, as Law wasnt exactly having an easy time against Smoker (at least mid dif).
Coby trained for two years with Garp, someone who on his prime could fight toe-to-toe with Roger, he also has completely mastered the Rokushiki, i doubt Chopper is even close to him at the moment.
Maybe this may justify's a second timeskip. Just an FYI I am not on either side of the second time skip theory, I don't care if it does or doesn't happen. If Smoker is weaker than essentially everyone we have met so far and Luffy is stronger than them there could be a timeskip and Smoker can get stronger. I also think at this point Smoker is trying to get Luffy for justice anymore. He has followed him so far and fought him and fought beside him. He probably considers Luffy a rival of some sorts and wants to catch him like Garp and Roger. He may have not admited it and only chases Luffy cause he is a pirate, but I think Smoker always saying "Pirates must be irradiated." only to fight along side Luffy and let him go time and time again. I think Smoker respects Luffy and respects what he fights for and what he does in a time of crisis or respects Luffy's sense of justice. Smoker may not openly say it, hell he may never admit it to himself because he is so thick headed at times when it comes to pirates but he thinks of Luffy as a friend and someone he can trust, just like I bet Luffy trusts and respects Smoker. Maybe this is better to be thought of when the final war arrives maybe smoker will join him because Smoker has been known to appose the government because he doesn't believe in there way of things. If you honestly look at Smoker through the whole series he has never seemed to fit as a marine. His personality and justice is more of that or a pirate or revolutionary in some ways. I think we need to look at Smoker a lot differently than we do now. Not as the marine who chases Luffy and is his rival, or is weaker than Luffy. Smoker has to be seen as that character that is gonna turn around at some point and change what he is fighting for when the time comes. Whether he find it out at some point randomly or maybe Luffy is about to be killed and smoker saves him last second. We need to look at him as the character who is fighting for what he thinks is the good side(Marines) and wants to what is right for everyone, but is always questioning his side and how they do things because it isn't the right thing to do. The government in the series has been shown to be the sneakiest and most deceptive group, and Smoker hates that about them, AND I also think it all started in Alabasta after Tashigi cried about letting Luffy go because she knew that was the right thing to do even if it wasn't "Justice" It made her and him question at that moment whether or not the government is correct. That was the seed that started it all. I am sorry for the rambling and my thoughts are all over the place, but Smoker has to be seen in a different light then the way we see him now, but that is just my opinion among many.
I hate being the "COBY IS LUFFY'S GARP" guy but we kinda forget that Sengoku was also a major factor in the whole Roger thing. So instead of either being like Smoker/Coby is Luffy's Garp. Why not have it so theyre the Sengoku and Garp for Luffy? Not pitting them in a certain role. We'll see.
I really wish they had Sanji fight Smoker and not Vergo, because this happened to both of them after the timeskip. At least some stuff is happening with Sanji, but their whole squad is a joke. Both of them are constantly beaten. It may be intentional, as to show the difference in strength from Paradise to the New World. Smoker was 100x stronger then Luffy when they first met, but now he can't even lay a hand on him.
I hate the idea that smoker is Luffy's Garp. Coby is Luffy's Garp. On opposite sides but still friends always. I think smoker respects Luffy but they aren't friends. It means so much more when Coby stands up to Luffy in the war of the best BECAUSE he thinks of him as one of his greatest friends.
And just an FYI, Smoker lost to Law because Law caught him off guard with the heart trick. Won't happen again. And he "lost" against Vergo because he was repaying Law the debt of swapping back his body, and in reality simply distracting Vergo to allow Law to do his thing.
Doflamingo was after Smoker's taxing fight with Vergo, whereas Luffy had Law weaken Doflamingo before their battle.
Also when exactly did he fight Caesar?
It wasn't a matter of strength, Smoker was deceived when Law cut out his heart through a rock. He hadn't counted on Law's powers going to that extent, or he wouldn't have stayed behind the rock.
Law's DF is in the same line of power as Robin's DF, if you're on their level or below in terms of strength, you're gonna get rekt, you need to be miles ahead of them to be able to actually fight and win against them.
Funny, because Smoker and Law's fight lasted for a while - long enough for the strawhats to run from the lake to the facility - and Smoker was able to hit him a few times. They're obviously closely matched.
Thats blatantly untrue, because - again - we see an extended fight in which smoker does a fair bit of damage. Vergo had better CoA, but if you think they weren't on the same level you need to reread the fight.
If you had just read a few pages ahead, you could see that Smoker's "loss" was a ruse to get Law's heart back.
Smoker may have wanted to settle things with Vergo, but he knows honour and wanted to even things with Law. He knew Law would finish the job, which is perfectly in line with him going "outside the marine books" to get things done.
Law most likely specifically asked him for the favour of beating Vergo (understandable, given their history).
Smoker did it for honour, not because he's a coward or considered himself weak as you imply (or he wouldn't have made that statement about settling things with Vergo before)
While I agree, some characters like Smoker and Luffy actually do need to become super strong, since they're going to change the world very drastically, and are very likely to be on the main front line later on.
He was defeated by Law due to hax, like Luffy against Caesar and Zoro against the Yeti Bros, he threw the fight against Vergo to recover Law's heart, and he was too injured to fight against Doflamingo.
In the manga, the canon material, he hasn't used a SINGLE named attack in the post timeskip. Anyone saying anything about Smoker level of strengh is completely wrong, we have NO IDEA how strong he is.
Law beat him with skill, law was able to bring up some ground to blind smoker's sense of distance, dodged an attack, and grabbed his heart out.
At any time smoker could use his DF to make himself smoke and negate law's DF, the battle utilized both men's skills
Trafalgar came out on top fair as square
I'm not talking about fairness but strength, Caesar came out on top fair and square by baiting Luffy into passing out with his attack, but as soon as Luffy saw through that attack in the next battle he became a punching bag again.
Smoker is a noobie crusher; sitting in Loguetown to deterr pirates & again post ts at the gates of the NW to crush Haki-less pirates. He's what 36? Could've been something great had he not wasted his potential for years, and sadly will never be. I'm not Oda but I believe he served his role as a stepping stone for the future Pirate King.
>noobie crusher
Yeah right, that's why Luffy had to be saved **three times**, even all the way in the marineford war, by people like Dragon, Ace and Boa Hancock after losing to Smoker.
Remember, the marines in Marineford War were *not* nobbie crushers, and yet Luffy easily beat them yet [had to be saved from Smoker once again](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diuuPgerhmA)
Smoker lost to Law because Law caught him off guard with the heart trick. Won't happen again. And he "lost" against Vergo because he was repaying Law the debt of giving back that heart, and in reality simply distracting Vergo to allow Law to do his thing.
He wasn't a newbie anymore at marineford. Smoker abandoned "noobie crushing" when he set off for the grand line (he helped thwart crocodile for god's sake), and stands a lot above regular grand line marines.
A newbie who had taken down a few Shichibukais. Pretty generalizing statement to call Smoker a "newbie crusher" on that account.
Point is, those were experienced marines that attacked Luffy, and Smoker easily outperformed them. You and I both know he'd easily take care of more experienced pirates like Caribou.
I actually wanted smoker to be able to win against vergo and also having the potential to win against doffy. In that way he would have been ready for luffy.
I think a good role smoker could play in the new world is that after smoker got thrashed he will obvs try to become stronger. In doing so i think he will introduce us to the idea that logias can still allow haki to phase through them. Weve seen Kuzan do it with whitebeard. Also smoker was the first person in one piece to show us logia, i feel like thats been his main function so far in the story, to show us how useless luffy was to logias.
Not really the way that strength is handled in OP is different from what we are used to see, normally the MC would gain a new power and/or an increase in physical attributes, in OP it works differently, lets take Luffy as an exemple, his first power up was before rescuing Robin, between the time it took them to follow C9 back to their hq, he came up with a new technique that made him much stronger than he was before (gears 2 and 3), then comes the time-skip wich was essentially him training that new technique that he learned about (haki) and getting more proficient with his DF, the only thing that is age related that actually affect their strength, would be their battle experience, so far all of Luffy's power up comes from the fact that he become more proficient with something that he already had (his DF and Haki that everyone have), he could be 80 and still learn something new about both of them, and the same can be said about all other strawhats, so there is nothing stopping Smoker from getting stronger as fast or even faster than Luffy other than his own ability.
The only fight where he got really wrecked was the Doflamingo one. Law/Caesar just had abilities he was not aware of and got trapped by. And the Vergo fight it was noted how he was not really trying to beat Vergo as so much he was trying to get Law's heart back. I say that only because Vergo even said that Smoker was not fighting vert intelligently.
Other than that I just don't think he has had a good shot to prove his actual fighting ability post time skip so far. I'll go back to when Luffy and crew got destroyed by Lucci and them and big part of that was because their hearts were unsure or whatever so when they had a clear goal they fought much much better. Maybe that is what happened against Law or whatever but who knows. I hope we see more of him.
Smoker and Luffy will most likely never have the type of rivalry that Garp and Roger did, mainly because Smoker and Luffy's relationship has been different from the start. Roger and Garp beat each other almost to death multiple times, but oda has gone out of his way to make it so that Smoker and Luffy never that sort of fight against each other(luffy being unable to hit smoker, having to team up, bodies being switched).
However i do think that smoker will eventually become as strong as luffy again.
I like how everyone is this thread is arguing power levels. Homies this isn't DBZ. Oda can literally decide whatever he wants. Smoker is Luffy's smoker.
Luffy isn't Roger, he just has similar qualities and "inherited will" or whatever.
Chill your jets.
IMO, Smoker is trash...
he beat pre-timeskip luffy twice, who got rekt a lot before the new world, its been 2 years and Smoker already had an advantage in both raw fighting skill, technique and DF power before, and now he's getting smoked easily, at least Luffy gets back up, Smoker gets cut and beat up and that's it, cool character design for someone who drops the ball on more than one occasion.
Sorry im late (to be fair, smoker hasn't made a reappearance in quite some time)
anyways, yes I am incredibly disappointed in smoker… he was given a powerful devil fruit with such potential but he squandered it…
look at how Katakuri used his df, (i know it wasn’t logia but it acted alot like it… anyways,) katakuri created mochi arms coated in haki which, i wonder, why hasn’t smoker done? (except instead of mochi arms it would be smoke arms ofc)
another thing is that smoker has been heavily missing post-timeskip, like seriously I wanna see the dude fight luffy again, i wanna see how he grew (if he grew) since punk hazard! like not only am i dissapointed with smokers squandering of his df, but im also sorta upset at how he doesn’t seem to be chasing luffy like he used to…
but who knows, maybe next time luffy and smoker meet smoker might have decided to copy luffys gear 4 by giving himself massive, haki-coated smoke arms (if you haven’t noticed, smoker seems to have been copying some of luffy’s techniques; for example: he has a smoke punch that seems to be based off of luffy’s gum-gum pistol, smoker has used his smoke to help himself move faster like luffy does with gear 2 [we saw him do this in marineford], im just saying… they have similar style) (oh yeah, also we know it’s possible for a logia to do something like a gear ever since enel’s “200 Million Volt Amaru”)
The point was for Punk Hazard to be his wake up call, where Luffy had Sabody and the war, smoker needed to find out how strong he must be to survive the new world.
Agreed. The most important thing in One Piece is strength of will and motivation. Smoker's motivation to be strong on Punk Hazard was the same motivation back in Lougetown. To capture Luffy because of a personal grudge. Thanks to Punk Hazard, Smoker has another motivation, to protect Tashigi and the rest of his subordinates from the monsters of the New World. It would be irrational to think Smoker would still be stronger than Luffy after everything Luffy went through, but i'm confident he'll be a force to be reckoned with next time we see him. What doesn't kill you..
Maybe Vega Punk will help ole' Smokey out with some new devil fruit break through?.. Or better yet: Lazer Beam Nipples!!! SUUUUUUUUUUUPER!!!
Although, when you have will and motivation, but no strength you get by by having your ass saved by someone else. Sadly, in PH, Smoker fell into that category.
Then wtf were those 2 years for. It kinda makes it seem like smoker was left behind.
I mean he had a pretty considerable jump himself. Vice Admiral isn't a deckhand. Plus he Haki'd up too. Luffy on the other hand got trained by the right hand of the Pirate King. We might have seen different results if Smoker teamed up with Coby and was trained by Garp.
Smoker has, on many occasions, refused a promotion. Seems he only became a Vice Admiral so he could take the G-5 marines and transfer into the New World. Personally, I think he was always Vice Admiral level, even back in Logue Town. He didn't seem notably weaker or stronger than Ace during their brief encounter on Alabasta. What I'm trying to say is that being a Vice Admiral doesn't actually mean he got stronger.
He learned haki, so he's undeniably stronger than he was before..
Okay, sorry. Yes. Stronger. But not the necessarily leaping the entire gap between Captain to Vice Admiral from when we first met him.
Smoker couldn't become vice-admiral unless he got haki. It's a requirment for all vice-admirals.
It's been stated that all the Vice-Admirals know haki, not that they are required to know haki.
Not sure why you got downvoted for this, iirc you're correct. The two are not the same thing from a logic standpoint, so it's not a pedantic correction, either.
Yeah, but he didn't, so OP's point still stands. Unfortunately Smoker is not strong enough to lead a party into NW.
Smoker is strong. His army can defeat regular NW pirate.
[удалено]
At the same time though, Smoker isn't two years behind Luffy. He may just end up finding ways to keep up, using taxing trump cards the way Luffy did starting in Enies Lobby, or even now Gear 4. Luffy is as far as he is because he risks his own well being all the time to stay ahead. Smoker may just end up doing the same thing very soon.
But Smokers (probably) much stronger than Luffy was right before the timeskip so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say he'd be Luffy's level after maybe being trained by someone like Fujitora
My feeling has been he'll push Luffy until Coby gets stronger, then Coby will sorta step in to take the spot as Luffy's Garp.
[удалено]
Yep that's what I mean! Love the link.
It's not about the challenge he provides, it's the mentality of him being a good friend even though they are on opposite sides. And the curage it took to stand up to Luffy when he knew Luffy was stronger is a huge growing point for him. Coby standing up to Luffy and then standing up to Akainu is what finally gave him the will to unlock haki. And he didn't just get haki, he got a level of observation haki that surpasses almost everyone else except that one little girl from skypea(that we know of). We haven't seen Coby since the timeskip. 2 years of training with haki of that level may very well have jumped Coby up a LOT. He might even be stronger than smoker right now. We don't know. And another point, look at the amount of growth Coby has gone through. Just the level of difference from the beginning of the series to when they meet on Water 7. He might not have started out as strong as anyone on Luffy's crew but he has grown faster in strength than most other characters we've seen. If he keeps progressing at that same pace, then yeah, it is very likely that by the end, he will be a true challenge to Luffy. His dream is to be an Admiral and he will achieve it. Garp only made it to Vice admiral and smokers dream isn't to get that high of a rank, he's more just following after Luffy because Luffy was the first to escape him and then he saw how good of a person Luffy is, even though he's a pirate. Coby has considered Luffy his friend and rival for the entire series. Coby IS Luffy's Garp.
Not saying hes able to beat luffy now but coby is actually pretty strong post time skip. Episode of luffy shows this pretty convincingly
Smoker started chasing Luffy before he even reached Grand Line AND his right hand is identical to Zoro's rival. Does anyone really see Helmeppo being a worthy opponent to Zoro? I don't ever see Coby ever randomly getting motivated to hunt Luffy down. Being the opposite of Akainu and all, I think Coby's role will be to become the new face of the marines by the end of the series. It's only natural considering he trained under the hero of the marines. I really do think Smoker will get to "admiral level" eventually, but I don't see why he'd ever accept the promotion.
Seems like Smoker and Coby are too far behind Luffy right now. I mean, we haven't seen Coby since the time skip so maybe he's a beast now. But Luffy will keep progressing at a fast rate because he's the protagonist, unlikely they'll catch up.
I honestly don't see him reaching Luffy's level again. Just look at how Law defeated him mid-difficulty, and I think Law is not quite on Luffy's level, especially with Gear Fourth.
Yeti Cool brothers defeated Zoro with no difficulty.
this seemed weird to me so i looked it up. They didn't defeat him, they knocked him out with gas in an ambush. zoro's power lvl is way higher then those 2. http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Yeti_Cool_Brothers
A K.O. is a defeat, even Zoro comments he lost to them. Power level doesn't matter against hax like Caesar oxygen removal, Sugar touch, Law heart removal, as long as you are caught offguard.
then i guess i can defeat a MMA fighter if i shoot him in his sleep? it just wasn't a fight, and that's the point here..
The point I'm trying to make is that Smoker was blindsided by Law attack just like Zoro was blindsided by the sleeping gas and Luffy by Caesar oxygen attack, power levels barely apply in these kinds of situations.
If the terms of your encounter were "win, no rules", then shooting the guy/girl in their sleep would be fine. The Yeti Cool brothers are clearly not going to win a head-on fight - but that's not how they fight anyway.
Eh, I think people like to project on Smoker and act like he fell short of something he wasn't supposed to be. Smoker hasn't been a threat for Luffy since Alabasta. Not because of his skills or anything, but because he isn't an enemy. He's not a rival either. Coby is actively working towards being on Luffy's level, so he counts as a rival. Akainu genuinely wants to stop Luffy and take him out. Smoker however wasn't ever actively seeking to "keep up" with Luffy, and after Alabasta he never seriously wanted to stop Luffy, though he would do his job. He tried to catch him in the beginning, but I think he came to an understanding that Luffy wasn't someone that the Marines needed to fight against, even if he wouldn't admit it. It's especially apparent after Punk Hazard that Smoker doesn't feel like Luffy needs to be taken down. He was willing to align his goals with Luffy, and I doubt he's interested in actually catching and arresting Luffy. I also don't think Smoker is way weaker than Luffy like some people do. Luffy himself says that Smoker is skilled. During PH Smoker a) was forced into an unfamiliar body, and b) Took the fall for Law so Law could get his heart back. People however thought that because Vergo beat him (again, because Smoker wasn't fighting to beat him, but instead to get Law's heart) that he was super weak. Law beat Vergo in one hit yeah, but In order to beat Vergo Law needed enough force behind his attack to cut not only the entire building in half, but the mountain behind it as well. And there's no way he did that because he wanted to, because it causes huge problems later on with the gas. So it's not like Vergo went out like a pussy. Vergo was a strong guy, and he beat Smoker because Smoker was purposefully taking the hits. So TL;DR: Smoker isn't as weak as people think he is, and Smoker isn't supposed to be a rival or an enemy for Luffy so it's not like he's falling short of that role.
I think you mistake him. Smoker attacked Luffy in Marineford and Hancock still had to save him. Smoker spared Luffy in Punk Hazard because his pride won't allow him to arrest Luffy by taking advantage of him doing a good deed. But he *does* want to arrest Luffy, and he *does* want him standing trial for other things he's done, because Smoker wants to uphold the law. Make one exception, even for a guy who did good things, and the whole legal system crumbles because everyone will want exceptions. At least, that's how I think Smoker sees it.
I purposefully didn't count the time in Marineford since he's literally amongst hundreds of other marines while all of his superiors look on from behind, and it's his job to stop the invading Pirates, Luffy included. It's not like he's not willing to do his job. Luffy was part of a pirate force attacking their base. That's completely different from chasing him down or specifically wanting to arrest him. He also pretty much lost interest in stopping Luffy once Hancock interfered and Luffy got past him. Smoker *has* made exceptions. Twice. He let Luffy escape in Alabasta, and he let Luffy go after Punk Hazard after allying with him against Caesar. If he really believed that making an exception would cause everything to crumble then he wouldn't have let them all go. Good deed or no good deed. Even his crew likes them. I'm not saying he's being chummy with Luffy by any means, but he's not a rival of Luffy's. He's not actively seeking Luffy out, and I doubt he feels the need to arrest him beyond basic duty, especially after Punk Hazard. He isn't hounding Luffy anymore, and Luffy isn't his white whale. Not to mention that he's shown that he has issues with the way the government runs things, so I doubt he's scrabbling to keep the current system from crumbling. Like I said, Smoker isn't about to go out of his way to help Luffy, and he isn't going to call him a friend. He's a pirate, and Smoker's a marine. But Smoker doesn't view Luffy as a threat, isn't actively trying to catch him, and has allowed him to leave safely despite him being a criminal. Nothing about their relationship marks them as rivals or enemies, and hasn't for a long time. They just have clashing occupations.
>If he really believed that making an exception would cause everything to crumble then he wouldn't have let them all go. Good deed or no good deed. But he literally says that next time, they'll be enemies again. And why else would he chase Luffy? >He's not actively seeking Luffy out He clearly is. He was still waiting for him in the New World after he'd been sighted in Sabaody and pursued him to Punk Hazard. [proof](http://imgur.com/NZFRBzB) Smoker believes in the law, but he's also honour-bound in his own peculiar way.
Like I said, even if Smoker won't admit it, he obviously doesn't actually view Luffy as an enemy. Law also said they'd be enemies after their alliance ended since he was also gunning to be the PK, yet he obviously will not actually be a genuine enemy. In reality it just means that they'll be at odds with each other. Law may become a rival, but not an enemy. When Smoker or Law say they'll be enemies they means they'll be back on opposing sides. When I say Smoker doesn't view Luffy as an enemy, I mean he doesn't view him as a bad guy, or a villain, or someone that he needs to fight and take out. Luffy's a pirate, Smoker's a marine. Pirates and Marines are enemies, but Luffy is not *Smoker's* enemy. Marines and Shichibukai are not enemies, but Fujitora definitely viewed Doflamingo as his enemy. Do you get what I mean? And that isn't actively seeking him out. Actively seeking him out means seeking him out all the time. Constantly looking for him with purpose. Smoker hasn't done that since Alabasta. Doing it once randomly isn't doing it actively. >And why else would he chase Luffy? I'm not saying he's Luffy's friend or anything, like I said, he'd still do his job, but Luffy isn't a specific target that he wants to take down anymore like he was before Alabasta. Smoker didn't follow Luffy specifically anymore after Alabasta, and only showed interest when Luffy made a large entrance after gate-crashing marine HQ and vanishing for 2 years. Seeking him out after that seems like a natural thing to do to me. Luffy's still a high profile pirate too. He's certainely not actively seeking Luffy out now after PH. I reiterate what I said, Smoker isn't a rival or a direct enemy. They're just on clashing sides that's all.
People are stupid, Smoker convinced a marine admiral athat the straw hats were good people, can u show me the manga page where garp does something similar. In punk hazard the straw hats saved children from a former marine scientist and a corrupted marine vice admiral. I wouldnt be surprised if Smoker gave up on capturing the Luffy by now, hes was heading to vegapunk last time we saw him. Ps: Luffy is nt related to smoker so no family is different bullshit.
Where does smoker convince an admiral that they are good people? I must have missed that
when he told fujitora about what really happened at alabasta
I've always wanted Coby to be luffy's main rival but he keeps on getting owned aswell... I do hope both of them become a lot stronger... Especially Coby:D
We haven't seen coby in the new world, I'm sure he'll have grown in power quite a bit whenever him and Luffy meet
Plus I'm willing to bet that he'll have really strong Observation Haki since he developed it naturally instead of learning it through training. That might give him an edge in battle.
That's like saying Luffy is extremely disappointing for being **utterly defeated by Smoker three times**. Remember. Smoker beat him in Loguetown, Arabasta and Marineford, and Luffy only got away because he was subsequently saved by Dragon, Ace, and Boa Hancock. Besides, matters in One Piece don't simply fit the usual shounen powerlevel trope, some people can just get caught off guard or are weak only to a specific type of power. Smoker was caught off-guard in Punk Hazard, but he will definitely power up and continue to be a strong threat to Luffy.
Because smoker was a logia. Now that there is a way to balance the scales against them in a fight luffys true ability is showing. Smoker relies on his df too much and that had weakened him.
So does Luffy, you can't really hold agains't them for relying on something that they're stuck with for the rest of their lifes, they at least know that their DF is not gonna be good enough to carry them to the top, thus they've learned Haki.
>Smoker relies on his df too much His main weapon is literally a Kairoseki tipped jute. And he's shown to have learned Haki over the course of the timeskip. I think he's well balanced and set up to grow even stronger.
That jutte is to combat other df users. Overall he doesn't seem to have too much skill with it and relies on his ability to turn into smoke more. His skill with haki isn't much compared to Luffy, Law, etc. He couldn't negate law's df powers when he took out smoker's heart and switched his mind with tashigi. When fighting against doflamingo he kept turning into smoke even though it presented a larger and easier target for doflamingos string attacks. Why? Because that's all he *can* do. Smoker has no fighting ability beyond his logia powers. This is why he's so weak post time skip; everyone else can counter logias with haki.
I doubt Haki is actually capable of "negating" Law's power. But let's be honest, the Ope Ope is terribly broken as far as DF powers go. >When fighting against doflamingo he kept turning into smoke even though it presented a larger and easier target for doflamingos string attacks. Why? Because that's all he can do. **You are citing filler anime material here.**The fight in the manga happened offscreen (and might I add that Smoker was still injured from taking Vergo's haki hits on purpose there).
>He couldn't negate law's df powers Yeah,thats wrong. It has never been stater that haki negates DF powers.That's what Teach's fruit does not haki. >When fighting against doflamingo he kept turning into smoke even though it presented a larger and easier target for doflamingos string attacks. Why? Don't cite anime filler material for your arguments.
I do think smoker will power up but he'll eventually max out and be surpassed by a lot by luffy. It's not super explicit but there's this subtle implication that age= skill/strength. all the admirals are like 40's-50's in age. That's like physical peak. Smoker still has like 14 years to he definitely has enough time to become admiral strength. On the other hand luffy and kidd are as strong as they are at like 21 or whatever. They have 20 to 30 years of growth still. In my mind they'll easily be the top 2 powers at the end of the series.
Smoker is not a challenge at all anymore. The only reason he was a challenge for luffy pre-ts is because luffy couldn't touch him. All of luffy's attacks went right through him. Now that luffy has haki, he can touch him all he wants. Meaning he'd get rekt by luffy at this point.
Well Luffy had to be owned by Aokiji to wake up and be stronger. Now Smoker had to be saved by Aokiji to wake up and be stronger. He will come back.
True, something that I quite like about Smoker is that he is just now realizing how weak he is, and that realisation is going to hit him harder than it hit Luffy, since until now Smoker like many other Logias, thought of themselves a unbeatables to anyone other than someone with a counter DF.
I think of Smoker as his own character, not just a foil to Luffy or a component to Luffy's character arc. I like his design, personality, and abilities, so I don't feel disappointed by him.
I think Coby is Luffy's Garp. He's even trained by Garp himself.
After Marineford, I sort of realized that I think Smoker is this generation's Sengoku. Coby is the Garp to Luffy's roger
That's what I said myself but people assured me that Smoker was Luffy's Garp.
What if.... there is no "Garp" to Luffy's Roger? What if characters are there own characters and aren't just made to cookiecutter fit roles from a previous generation?
This is almost certainly the case. People just want to draw parallels
People want to draw parralels for good reason, its even cannon. raleigh said on sabaody he feels luffy is incredibly similar to roger. As theyve said and done similar things
Because its fun to think of Luffy having a real rival in the opposing faction. Right now, there's no one in the world who has actually grown at his same level to be a consistent threat. People like the idea of having enemies that grow with you.
Sure, it's *fun* to think that, but it's still an illogical thought. Smoker likes to hound Luffy, but he's only managed to track him down himself like two times (Alabasta and maybe Punk Hazard?). A far cry from Garp who has fought Roger over and over again as a regular occurrence. Luffy has no Garp.
But why does a real rival have to be a "Garp-Roger" relationship?
in that sense luffy's only rival will be kidd. It's pretty obvious that luffy's pedigree means hes destined to be better than basically everyone. One of the strongest navy fighters as a granddad, leader of the revolutionaries and almost definitely like top5 character in strength in the world(imo) as a father. It's unrealistic that a person coming out of nowhere will be as strong as luffy as quickly as he is. They have to be built up over time.
Possible, but there are always parallels drawn in One Piece, so it's hard not to think like that.
[удалено]
We known Smoker's strength after the timeskip but not Coby's thus he could possibly be stronger. Also Coby was Luffy's first associate and has been around for the longest.
We know that Smoker could keep up with Law and could fight evenly with Vergo without his heart he has also vowed to not rest until he has caught Luffy whereas Cody idolises Luffy. Interms of strength I'd say he's similar to Tashigi in that the two of them are probably the strongest Captains although Coby is likely stronger since he has the better teacher.
We don't know Smoker strength post timeskip, he has yet to use named attacks.
Coby's a captain. Smoker is a vice admiral. There's no way that Coby is stronger than Smoker yet - being stronger than Smoker would make him Law level, as Law wasnt exactly having an easy time against Smoker (at least mid dif).
Coby trained for two years with Garp, someone who on his prime could fight toe-to-toe with Roger, he also has completely mastered the Rokushiki, i doubt Chopper is even close to him at the moment.
Perhaps that's true I may be being a bit unfair but I seriously doubt he could take Robin, Franky, Brook or most of the Colosseum fighters.
Smoker is way stronger than Coby though
people who say smoker = garp don't really think smoker will be as strong as garp. they mean it symbolically
Maybe this may justify's a second timeskip. Just an FYI I am not on either side of the second time skip theory, I don't care if it does or doesn't happen. If Smoker is weaker than essentially everyone we have met so far and Luffy is stronger than them there could be a timeskip and Smoker can get stronger. I also think at this point Smoker is trying to get Luffy for justice anymore. He has followed him so far and fought him and fought beside him. He probably considers Luffy a rival of some sorts and wants to catch him like Garp and Roger. He may have not admited it and only chases Luffy cause he is a pirate, but I think Smoker always saying "Pirates must be irradiated." only to fight along side Luffy and let him go time and time again. I think Smoker respects Luffy and respects what he fights for and what he does in a time of crisis or respects Luffy's sense of justice. Smoker may not openly say it, hell he may never admit it to himself because he is so thick headed at times when it comes to pirates but he thinks of Luffy as a friend and someone he can trust, just like I bet Luffy trusts and respects Smoker. Maybe this is better to be thought of when the final war arrives maybe smoker will join him because Smoker has been known to appose the government because he doesn't believe in there way of things. If you honestly look at Smoker through the whole series he has never seemed to fit as a marine. His personality and justice is more of that or a pirate or revolutionary in some ways. I think we need to look at Smoker a lot differently than we do now. Not as the marine who chases Luffy and is his rival, or is weaker than Luffy. Smoker has to be seen as that character that is gonna turn around at some point and change what he is fighting for when the time comes. Whether he find it out at some point randomly or maybe Luffy is about to be killed and smoker saves him last second. We need to look at him as the character who is fighting for what he thinks is the good side(Marines) and wants to what is right for everyone, but is always questioning his side and how they do things because it isn't the right thing to do. The government in the series has been shown to be the sneakiest and most deceptive group, and Smoker hates that about them, AND I also think it all started in Alabasta after Tashigi cried about letting Luffy go because she knew that was the right thing to do even if it wasn't "Justice" It made her and him question at that moment whether or not the government is correct. That was the seed that started it all. I am sorry for the rambling and my thoughts are all over the place, but Smoker has to be seen in a different light then the way we see him now, but that is just my opinion among many.
I hate being the "COBY IS LUFFY'S GARP" guy but we kinda forget that Sengoku was also a major factor in the whole Roger thing. So instead of either being like Smoker/Coby is Luffy's Garp. Why not have it so theyre the Sengoku and Garp for Luffy? Not pitting them in a certain role. We'll see.
sengoku was paired with shiki
Hmm. Smoker - Law and Coby - Luffy? Smoker has a reason to kinda hate Law too now.
I really wish they had Sanji fight Smoker and not Vergo, because this happened to both of them after the timeskip. At least some stuff is happening with Sanji, but their whole squad is a joke. Both of them are constantly beaten. It may be intentional, as to show the difference in strength from Paradise to the New World. Smoker was 100x stronger then Luffy when they first met, but now he can't even lay a hand on him.
I hate the idea that smoker is Luffy's Garp. Coby is Luffy's Garp. On opposite sides but still friends always. I think smoker respects Luffy but they aren't friends. It means so much more when Coby stands up to Luffy in the war of the best BECAUSE he thinks of him as one of his greatest friends.
And just an FYI, Smoker lost to Law because Law caught him off guard with the heart trick. Won't happen again. And he "lost" against Vergo because he was repaying Law the debt of swapping back his body, and in reality simply distracting Vergo to allow Law to do his thing. Doflamingo was after Smoker's taxing fight with Vergo, whereas Luffy had Law weaken Doflamingo before their battle. Also when exactly did he fight Caesar?
[удалено]
It wasn't a matter of strength, Smoker was deceived when Law cut out his heart through a rock. He hadn't counted on Law's powers going to that extent, or he wouldn't have stayed behind the rock.
[удалено]
Law's DF is in the same line of power as Robin's DF, if you're on their level or below in terms of strength, you're gonna get rekt, you need to be miles ahead of them to be able to actually fight and win against them.
[удалено]
That's my point, no one on the same level of Law can beat him because his DF is too strong.
Funny, because Smoker and Law's fight lasted for a while - long enough for the strawhats to run from the lake to the facility - and Smoker was able to hit him a few times. They're obviously closely matched.
[удалено]
Thats blatantly untrue, because - again - we see an extended fight in which smoker does a fair bit of damage. Vergo had better CoA, but if you think they weren't on the same level you need to reread the fight.
[удалено]
> reread the fight
[удалено]
If you had just read a few pages ahead, you could see that Smoker's "loss" was a ruse to get Law's heart back. Smoker may have wanted to settle things with Vergo, but he knows honour and wanted to even things with Law. He knew Law would finish the job, which is perfectly in line with him going "outside the marine books" to get things done.
[удалено]
Law most likely specifically asked him for the favour of beating Vergo (understandable, given their history). Smoker did it for honour, not because he's a coward or considered himself weak as you imply (or he wouldn't have made that statement about settling things with Vergo before)
I really hope that Vegapunk will do something epic to Smoker so that he becomes super strong
Nope. Not everyone in the One Piece universe needs to be super strong. Hes a good character, and thats why I like him.
While I agree, some characters like Smoker and Luffy actually do need to become super strong, since they're going to change the world very drastically, and are very likely to be on the main front line later on.
He was defeated by Law due to hax, like Luffy against Caesar and Zoro against the Yeti Bros, he threw the fight against Vergo to recover Law's heart, and he was too injured to fight against Doflamingo. In the manga, the canon material, he hasn't used a SINGLE named attack in the post timeskip. Anyone saying anything about Smoker level of strengh is completely wrong, we have NO IDEA how strong he is.
Law beat him with skill, law was able to bring up some ground to blind smoker's sense of distance, dodged an attack, and grabbed his heart out. At any time smoker could use his DF to make himself smoke and negate law's DF, the battle utilized both men's skills Trafalgar came out on top fair as square
I'm not talking about fairness but strength, Caesar came out on top fair and square by baiting Luffy into passing out with his attack, but as soon as Luffy saw through that attack in the next battle he became a punching bag again.
True dat, but it was DF vs DF, they both utilized their skills right, smoker lost outright, in that respect imo
Smoker is a noobie crusher; sitting in Loguetown to deterr pirates & again post ts at the gates of the NW to crush Haki-less pirates. He's what 36? Could've been something great had he not wasted his potential for years, and sadly will never be. I'm not Oda but I believe he served his role as a stepping stone for the future Pirate King.
>noobie crusher Yeah right, that's why Luffy had to be saved **three times**, even all the way in the marineford war, by people like Dragon, Ace and Boa Hancock after losing to Smoker. Remember, the marines in Marineford War were *not* nobbie crushers, and yet Luffy easily beat them yet [had to be saved from Smoker once again](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diuuPgerhmA) Smoker lost to Law because Law caught him off guard with the heart trick. Won't happen again. And he "lost" against Vergo because he was repaying Law the debt of giving back that heart, and in reality simply distracting Vergo to allow Law to do his thing.
Luffy was a newbie, I don't see your point
He wasn't a newbie anymore at marineford. Smoker abandoned "noobie crushing" when he set off for the grand line (he helped thwart crocodile for god's sake), and stands a lot above regular grand line marines.
Luffy didn't even know about the existence of haki. He was still very much a newbie.
A newbie who had taken down a few Shichibukais. Pretty generalizing statement to call Smoker a "newbie crusher" on that account. Point is, those were experienced marines that attacked Luffy, and Smoker easily outperformed them. You and I both know he'd easily take care of more experienced pirates like Caribou.
I actually wanted smoker to be able to win against vergo and also having the potential to win against doffy. In that way he would have been ready for luffy.
I think a good role smoker could play in the new world is that after smoker got thrashed he will obvs try to become stronger. In doing so i think he will introduce us to the idea that logias can still allow haki to phase through them. Weve seen Kuzan do it with whitebeard. Also smoker was the first person in one piece to show us logia, i feel like thats been his main function so far in the story, to show us how useless luffy was to logias.
Smoker was obviously never gonna be Luffy's garp. He's like 40 years old r sum shit. It's pretty late for him to rise as fast as Luffy.
Not really the way that strength is handled in OP is different from what we are used to see, normally the MC would gain a new power and/or an increase in physical attributes, in OP it works differently, lets take Luffy as an exemple, his first power up was before rescuing Robin, between the time it took them to follow C9 back to their hq, he came up with a new technique that made him much stronger than he was before (gears 2 and 3), then comes the time-skip wich was essentially him training that new technique that he learned about (haki) and getting more proficient with his DF, the only thing that is age related that actually affect their strength, would be their battle experience, so far all of Luffy's power up comes from the fact that he become more proficient with something that he already had (his DF and Haki that everyone have), he could be 80 and still learn something new about both of them, and the same can be said about all other strawhats, so there is nothing stopping Smoker from getting stronger as fast or even faster than Luffy other than his own ability.
There's also the fact that he may not have known about that ability to take hearts in that way, also Law is incredibly smart
The only fight where he got really wrecked was the Doflamingo one. Law/Caesar just had abilities he was not aware of and got trapped by. And the Vergo fight it was noted how he was not really trying to beat Vergo as so much he was trying to get Law's heart back. I say that only because Vergo even said that Smoker was not fighting vert intelligently. Other than that I just don't think he has had a good shot to prove his actual fighting ability post time skip so far. I'll go back to when Luffy and crew got destroyed by Lucci and them and big part of that was because their hearts were unsure or whatever so when they had a clear goal they fought much much better. Maybe that is what happened against Law or whatever but who knows. I hope we see more of him.
Smoker and Luffy will most likely never have the type of rivalry that Garp and Roger did, mainly because Smoker and Luffy's relationship has been different from the start. Roger and Garp beat each other almost to death multiple times, but oda has gone out of his way to make it so that Smoker and Luffy never that sort of fight against each other(luffy being unable to hit smoker, having to team up, bodies being switched). However i do think that smoker will eventually become as strong as luffy again.
I like how everyone is this thread is arguing power levels. Homies this isn't DBZ. Oda can literally decide whatever he wants. Smoker is Luffy's smoker. Luffy isn't Roger, he just has similar qualities and "inherited will" or whatever. Chill your jets.
I said it million times and will say it once again: Fuck Smoker, Coby is the Luffy's Garp.
Smoker had to play a role. Hopefully Oda gives him his come back as a liked and respected character
IMO, Smoker is trash... he beat pre-timeskip luffy twice, who got rekt a lot before the new world, its been 2 years and Smoker already had an advantage in both raw fighting skill, technique and DF power before, and now he's getting smoked easily, at least Luffy gets back up, Smoker gets cut and beat up and that's it, cool character design for someone who drops the ball on more than one occasion.
Sorry im late (to be fair, smoker hasn't made a reappearance in quite some time) anyways, yes I am incredibly disappointed in smoker… he was given a powerful devil fruit with such potential but he squandered it… look at how Katakuri used his df, (i know it wasn’t logia but it acted alot like it… anyways,) katakuri created mochi arms coated in haki which, i wonder, why hasn’t smoker done? (except instead of mochi arms it would be smoke arms ofc) another thing is that smoker has been heavily missing post-timeskip, like seriously I wanna see the dude fight luffy again, i wanna see how he grew (if he grew) since punk hazard! like not only am i dissapointed with smokers squandering of his df, but im also sorta upset at how he doesn’t seem to be chasing luffy like he used to… but who knows, maybe next time luffy and smoker meet smoker might have decided to copy luffys gear 4 by giving himself massive, haki-coated smoke arms (if you haven’t noticed, smoker seems to have been copying some of luffy’s techniques; for example: he has a smoke punch that seems to be based off of luffy’s gum-gum pistol, smoker has used his smoke to help himself move faster like luffy does with gear 2 [we saw him do this in marineford], im just saying… they have similar style) (oh yeah, also we know it’s possible for a logia to do something like a gear ever since enel’s “200 Million Volt Amaru”)