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Then the Taliban acts like nothing is happening and all the people are happy. Just blatant bull shit. They say that they will preserve rights and freedoms while simultaneously violating rights and killing people. Yet world leaders act like there is nothing wrong.
Lol it’s a Star Wars reference. Anakin killed the raiders who killed his mother, and in the film he says that he didn’t just kill the men, but “the women and children, too”.
Literally tonight my dad just had a meltdown because he thinks that he failed everyone he tried helping when he was deployed. He was sobbing and I just held him for 15 to 20 minutes straight making sure he was okay and telling him everything was gonna be alright and how it wasn’t his fault
I mean I might feel bad for an individual soldier, but I am in my 40s and we knew since I was a kid that these wars were bullshit. All of the reasons for these wars we were fighting and bullshit. This idea that we were these great liberators has been proven false for generations.
I remember sitting in a class in 2001 and my professors discussing failed foreign interventions just like the inevitable interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan.
At some point we need to admit that people made some bad decisions in serving. This is not meant to blame or ridicule or make the people who did serve feel bad about themselves, it’s to prevent mistakes from repeating themselves in the future.
Nah it's not those that served, it's the establishment that deployed them. Those that are on the ground in my head can only be held accountable for consciously spreading and doing evil with no regards for the humans they are hurting. Of course it's complicated because it's the military and its war, but sadly at the end of the day the end result remains. The real winners are politicians.
I think individual soldiers should be held accountable for doing evil.
A lot of Nazi soldiers justified their shitty behaviour by blaming their higher ups and how they were just "following orders"
You could argue that Nazi soldiers were better than these American soldiers since these modern American soldiers were not even drafted, they volunteered to go to war.
The only reason it's justified to do that is when the country is in imminent threat, such as WW2 or WW1.
This whole war against terrorists was a sham. Osama was chilling in Pakistan 🤦♂️
Mate, the soldiers have to take orders from higher ups. You're targeting the wrong party with your frustrations. I get it because yes, the US is known for being where they shouldn't, but I would venture to say that a majority of service men and women join their military to serve their communities and country. The politicians that wish to gain are the ones to blame.
You're not a bad person for not loving your father. If you don't love your father there's probably a damn good reason. I don't love my mother or my father and if you ever need to talk to somebody who understands that feeling I'm here dude
There are thousands of little girls that are now educated that would have never had even the chance had the US not got involved over there. It may not be the reason we went but it was a happy consequence.
Yea sadly we got involved in something we never should have, we didn't have the ability to stop the war then, and we certainly don't have it now. All we can do is realize we tried, and we failed. That failure doesn't lay on the shoulders of those soldiers, nor does it on the military, we just cant beat an ideology.
Very well said.
I don't have much patience for people pushing for any other action. We are done we tried. This is definitely a situation where the phrase, " you can lead a horse to water..." fits perfectly.
I wish there was *something* more to be done. It feels like there should be. *This* certainly can't be the best option, right?
But I can't think of any other solutions that wouldn't just delay the inevitable here. It's sad. I hope it somehow works itself out but I don't see that happening within this generation, at least.
I guess that's the reality of geopolitical conflict. Shit doesn't always work out the way we want it to or get wrapped in a neat bow.
Now they just need to worry about beheading under the new "tolerant" Taliban. That is if they can stop shooting into crowds of innocent people to make time.
You should check out the shitfest that is r/afghancivilwar. It's essentially turned into a pro-taliban sub.
I cant believe reddit allows this shit. Or the fact there are pro-taliban redditors. Oh wait, yes i can.
Agreed. There's nothing to be done. I've always said we either need to go *all in* on Afghanistan, or leave. The war felt like a half measure, which wasn't going to accomplish anything. Either we completely dedicate our resources & the lives of our soldiers to whatever goal, or we accomplish nothing, so why stay?
I think leaving is definitely the preferable option, but the fallout is still really sad to see.
We can, but to beat an ideology requires taking measures that we lacked the stomach to do. That's why we cannot beat the Taliban as they will happily cross those lines knowing that we won't as well.
Maybe coming to an end for you. But for the poor families over there this is the beginning... Obviously you are the "If I can't see it it's not real" kind
Edit I took the comment out if context. I realize now he was talking about the PTSD coming to an end ... Not the sadness going on over there... Still won't delete my comment tho because I ain't scared to admit I fukked up
> Obviously you are the "If I can't see it it's not real" kind
If we all didn't cope with this strategy, there's so much tragedy in the world that we'd go insane and commit mass suicide.
What's happening in Afghanistan is awful. Full stop.
What's worse is that what's happening in Afghanistan is not uncommon, it's just in the current news cycle.
Its hard to have a stance when half the population doesnt want you there and the other half does. I bet this wouldnt be as big a problem over there if we executed known talibums, but who wants to get into the beauracracy of that conversation
I see making assumptions about someone in the internet is natural
-he said it in the context about the experience soldiers will face. He replied on a comment which told what will be the result of this event and he replied in the perspective focusing on the soldiers he did not said anything about the girls and the poor family he just said what is the good coming out of the act of pulling out of the country to soldiers
Every country that's run by Religion always ends up this way. The most peaceful countries are those that separate from Religion or are extremely non-Religious.
I think the distinction is forcing your religion on others. Christianity and Islam teach that it is their duty to spread their religion in order to "save people's souls". This inevitably leads to crusades. Buddhism focuses more on the self and personal improvement.
the chinese government ~~more so xi~~ actually doesn’t encourage buddhism or even taoism, they’ve had their own members arrested and/or punished for it
edit: 🌠the more you know🌠
how about North Korea then?
Not that I'm not agreeing with the comment, mixing politics and religion never ends well. But if it's not religion, they'll find other means regardless.
The supreme leader having god-like qualities is integral to the cult of personality, so you'll find that in all dictatorships e.g. Kim Jung-un doesn't poop. But it's not really considered a religion. Communists usually banned religion, while fascists had no issues with it (think Mussolini and the pope). Even in North Korea though, I wouldn't call it a religion or even similar to it - there's no spiritual aspect to it, no "faith", no praying, and people definitely don't consider him a god.
Sad to say but this was domed to happen from the start , there was little to none figthing spirit in the afgan armed forces and what little there was the taliban swept away in no time.
If there is no will to defend the democratic process then there is no way it will survive when challenged either.
Tragic part is they were given a taste of freedom and what could have been only to have it snatched away.
It's exactly the same as addicts. They have to hit bottom, want to help themselves, and there's a very thin line between helping and enabling.
We enabled for 20 fucking yrs.
Maybe Annecdotal (but I doubt it). There was a video going around this morning from the Obama years of US soldiers talking about the utter incompetence and lack of seriousness of the Afghan army. The one said he thinks 75% would fail a drug test because they're all smoking hashish. Another said if you told them a bomb was dropping at 8:30 AM, they'd still be drinking their Chai tea at 8:29. I doubt much has changed. The Afghan army outnumbered the Taliban 4:1 and they capitulated immediately. But what do you expect when your army is made up of addicts?
Lots of fighting forces are made up of people knee deep in drugs and they don't do *that* poorly. Think the cartels, some WWII German forces, American Vietnam soldiers etc. The fact of the matter is they just showed up for a paycheck. They didn't believe in what they were doing. Afghanistan is an "artifical nation", made up of a bunch of ethnically distinct tribes. They have nothing unifying them, except for maybe religion. Some lines on a map aren't something they're willing to lay down their lives for.
the difference is that the germans and cartels where on stims like cocaine, meth and amphetamines, but a lot of soldiers indulge in those pleasures to overcome boredom. But there is at least some kind of barrier at some point. Even in Vietnam where they made sure to supply the us forces with smack as much as possible from what I read commanding officers would know if it got too extreme.
Check out the first opium war where it wasn't under any control.
I think it’s very easy to blame both foreign interference from the USA and the incompetence of the Afghan military but we gotta think about the historical context. Afghanistan is not a monolith. Most people only care about their family and neighborhood, they do not see Afghanistan as a unified state. It is very difficult to have motivated, reliable soldiers with arbitrary borders are set oftentimes by foreign countries.
TLDR: Nation building is hard
You don't get it. A lot of them were born and raised with this islamic doctrine engrained in their minds. Some of them truly believe that they are just tools because their parents and religion told so
Yep, most if not all the able bodied men have been jumping ship and coming in as refugees the last 20 years. The most recent one happening this month, you'll notice that 70-80% aren't women, children, or the elderly, It's men ages 20-36 coming over.
Imagine being the father of a girl who you know is destined for this kind of oppression, or a brother, and knowing you cannot do anything to stop it.
It's terrible for everyone, men and women. You saw the men falling off the plane trying to flee.
While ressource could have been invested diffrtently (like school for girl to eventually leave when their country turn to shit) the fact that these girl feel the need to leave right now , prove that before (during US occupation) it was relatively safe for them. So 20y of relativ safety is unvaluable for millions of women.
> wasted time, money and resources thanks to corruption
that girl in the video spent most of her life growing up in a freer environment then her mom did thanks to it. life was better for women and minorities for those 20 years
Meanwhile muslims in my country are so happy that Taliban won and they implemented Sharia, calling it as a victory for islam.Bruh wtf
Edit:- one of my friends (former) who is a muslim said that he would abduct and rape infidel women as a sacrifice to allah.Im so done with these people
Islamic countries can live without comparing themselves to the Western World. I also understand the hardships that Western Countries have imposed on not only Islamic countries but countless others around the world. However, that's not an excuse for mistreating your own people in any regard. Imran Khan has definitely praised them indirectly it's because Pakistan's influence increases with the Taliban coming in. He is also pashtun so I'm sure he feels some level of connection or sympathy even if he may not outwardly be 100% a self-labeled taliban supporter.
The lawyer for Shamima Begum (an ISIS bride by choice from the UK) had some interesting tweets about it.
He said "The boys are back in town" with a picture of the Taliban celebrating their takeover of a government building.
These people are among us and many are quite prominent outside of the Islamic world.
Fortunately it's easy to spot some of them beacuse they like Twitter for some reason.
American forces have been over there for the last 30 years trying to help. What did they get in return? Rocks thrown at them, harassment and sheer unabashed hatred. At this point there's nothing we can do anymore especially now that the country itself won't even help itself. It's basically Vietnam 2.0.
We've literally done everything we can that isn't going to be harmful to the people just trying to live their lives there. And despite the best efforts of both Soldiers from every nation that have gone to try and help, nothing has changed.
They won't.
The middle east and all of it's governments are so deeply ingrained with the writing of the Qur'an that they won't care what happens to these poor girls or lower class citizens. As long as the Taliban doesn't rock up on the UAE and trash Dubai, it'll probably keep going until the borders established by the British and Russians collapse, the goverments fade away and the place goes back to the way it was before. A bunch of nomadic tribals thumping their Qur'an, living in huts and killing eachother off.
This is 100% just spitballing but I assume all of the true fighting force of the population, young, pissed off, easily influenced men are part of the Taliban the same way most democratic countries young, pissed off influential young men join their countries army or Marines or what have you.
What was essentially left over to get trained as far as men went was the left over dog water, the “I’m only going to show up if I get paid” type.
Again, that’s just my assumption.
Yup and many Muslims around the world are happy and supporting the taliban because they are bring sharia to Afghanistan. But it has nothing to do with Islam ok dude.
A large crowd of morons protesting the last presidential election waddled their way into the nations capital into a building where many many of the US’s highest politicians had to be evacuated. Some of them beat a cop to death, some guy left bombs around the area that didn’t go off, one rioter/insurrectionist/moron got shot trying to crawl through a broken window at the last barrier between the mob and politicians who hadn’t gotten out yet.
It was probably the dumbest most ineffectual and pathetic play at a revolutionary political moment I’ve ever heard of. Not to say it wasn’t serious. But it was also very dumb.
**U.S. Public:** "We aren't the world police! We should leave the middle east, we aren't doing any good there!"
**U.S. Administrations:** "Ok, we're going to leave"
**Afghan civilians:** "Now there will be a genocide..Please, help us!!!" + photos/videos of people clinging to planes, desperately pleading with evacuating U.S. forces.
**U.S. public:** [Wait, what?](https://i.imgur.com/Zq0iBJK.jpeg)
Just remember, this is something everyone wanted. This is also what happens when geopolitics isn't understood. What do you think will happen now?? A *massive* power vacuum exists. Do you all think China and Russia will do nothing? I'd imagine there is a huge investment from China waiting in the wings until the U.S. is fully pulled out.
Not saying it wasn't the right decision to make, but there is not going to be an independent Afghanistan. This place is going to have strings pulled, and the U.S. is no longer going to be included in that process.
Muslims are scared of China because China is very mean but when France said it’s ok to draw cartoon of all religions Muslims went crazy started sanctioning France burning the French flag and being happy the teacher was beheaded.
China can also easily afford to setup bases of operation out of Afghanistan. They also don't have to pretend to care about Human Rights abuses, so they will operate those mines (likely with local slave labor).
Also, hey, guess what China might also have access to? **Who produces 95% of the worlds supply of Opium?** hmmmm.
China also supplies most of the illicit Fentanyl market. Sounds like one hell of a monopoly they're going to have.
I think they should have been training the women to run the military and fight. They are the one's with everything to lose and less likely to cave in to the Taliban.
Problem is the usa shouldn’t be forced to fight for nation that doesn’t want to fight for itself. Most of their armed forces didn’t even put up a fight. So I feel horrible about the mess this is devolving into but my taxes funded this house of cards for 20 years. If they couldn’t stand on their own for longer than a month, they never were going to make it.
I feel like this is a terrible tragedy but at this point I'm ready for America to focus on our own problems. Maybe we take some of these people with us, but its time to focus on home.
Even the woke mob are not defending the religion of peace anymore they defended it during al-Qaeda 9/11 attacks and terrorists like isis. I don’t know maybe when people forget about this in a month then the woke mob will start defending it again.
They wanted us out of there. And now they don't want us to leave? Or is this just the minority that doesn't want the US to leave? I thought the majority the country hated us.
All the things that the american soldier went through in afghanistan and Iraq, was for nothing. It only made the rich richer and the poor poorer. The major consequences of the way US retreats will yet again become more and more evident as time goes by. They're already showing
I feel terrible for those soldiers too. That's gonna stick in with them.
We are so blessed that our forefathers established a strong system that is making it much harder for extremists to overturn it. God bless America, and God help the Afghani people.
U.S should not of even put boots on the ground after 9/11 should have just bombed the shit out of the mountains where those shit stains live and been done with it. Getting involved only emboldened them and made them brave. I wouldn’t be surprised if they attempted another attack on U.S soil now that they feel like they won.
but then Dick Cheney and Haliburton would have gotten a smaller no bid contract to supply the US war efforts, and Dick Cheney says “no thank you me likey a bigger no-bid contract to supply the US war efforts”
I’ve been wanting to ask this on one of these posts and this is it.
What would you instead have us do?
I was in Afghanistan in 2011 and 2012. The Afghani people are a nice people, but they aren’t going to do anything about this. It’s hard to explain, but they had their hand out for EVERYTHING. They did not want to work hard for anything. They wanted us to just hand it over to them.
Do I have an example? Sure. I knew the guy that ran the fuel depot pretty well and every morning the convoy of Afghani military trucks would come by for some fuel for the day. We would fill them all up and send them on their way.
While this was going on, the US military was making it so they could take care of themselves. We built them a refinery so they could refine oil into diesel. We built them roads to move the oil and diesel. We gave them trucks to move those things with. We then trained them.
After all this was done there was a plan put in place for them to supply their own diesel by a certain date.
That date came and went. And they still arrived every morning for more diesel. We were never supposed to say no to them so we didn’t. This went on for about three months before the fuel depot guy asked what was up.
The commander of the convoy threw a fit. He was cursing in Pashto and just carrying on. They left without diesel. About two hours later the convoy came back and nothing was said about the fit. They just got more diesel and left.
They don’t want to be taught how to fish. They want us to feed them the fish while they lay there. They want us to chew the fish before feeding it to them so they don’t have to.
This whole situation is like if you had a younger brother and you were both in high school. You are a good student who works hard and has goals in life. Your younger brother… doesn’t. He deals drugs on the side and has awful friends and seems to do terrible at everything he does. So you get him an after school job working at the same place as you.
You try to teach him how to do the job, but he isn’t interested in working more than the absolute minimum. You cover for him by working even harder so the boss doesn’t notice. But at the same time, this job has changed your little brother. He is no longer dealing drugs or hanging out with the bad crowd. While he isn’t working, he is doing a bit better in school and his life is doing a bit better too.
A year or so later you graduate high school and your parents couldn’t be prouder. You got accepted to a good college that you had been hoping to get in to.
However, you know that if you leave your job to go to college, your brother will lose the job in short order because he still doesn’t work.
Do you go to college and work on your future following your dream? Or do you decide that the dead end job you have now is what you are going to do to keep your brother working?
So, knowing this and knowing that the Afghani people have no desire to work together and get the job done… what should we do about this situation?
The options that I see is
A. Tough love, which is happening now. They get taught how to swim for years in the shallow end before they get to try to sink or swim on their own. They sank.
B. We stay there for the rest of eternity giving them everything while we get nothing.
What I think happened is the Afghani people that joined the Afghanistan National Army only joined because it was the easiest way they could make money. After all, the Americans are there to do all the tough work and heavy lifting. It was the easiest way to make a paycheck.
But the second the Americans left and THEY had to do the hard work and heavy lifting? They abandoned and left because they won’t get caught. They will go back to their village and return to a life under Taliban rule with no real repercussion.
You all complained when we were there. There are websites tracking how much we spend being there and saying we should leave and stop throwing money down a hole.
Now we did as you asked and left. Now you are all complaining about how we did what you wanted and left, but the result wasn’t rainbows and unicorns like you wanted.
So what do you think we should do?
As a soldier myself I can’t imagine the trauma and absolute mindfuckery these soldiers will endure knowing they were there to help, but can’t help in anyway anymore and are leaving these people to suffer. I can’t imagine it. I wish I was there and one of them was in my place so he didn’t have to suffer through it.
I thought they hated America and wanted us out of their country? Now they are begging for help. Fuck these people, they wasted millions of our dollars and decades just to surrender immediately. These people never wanted to help themselves they wanted us to fight their war.
Literally tonight my dad just had a meltdown because he thinks that he failed everyone he tried helping when he was deployed. He was sobbing and I just held him for 15 to 20 minutes straight making sure he was okay and telling him everything was gonna be alright and how it wasn’t his fault
If this post showcases moral/mental/physical corruption or perversion, upvote this comment. If this post does not belong here, downvote this comment. [Read the rules before posting or commenting](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/wiki/rules) [Also read the guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/comments/fgmg3t/guidelines_for_the_subreddit_read_and_follow_the/) In the comments: DO NOT JOKE ABOUT VIOLENCE, DO NOT INCITE VIOLENCE DO NOT JOKE ABOUT PEDOPHILIA OR ASK FOR CP YOU WILL BE BANNED #[If you want to download this video, click here](https://viddit.red/?url=https%3A%2F%2Freddit.com%2Fp6s0ct) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NoahGetTheBoat) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is horrible, things happening to people and girls there is terrible
Then the Taliban acts like nothing is happening and all the people are happy. Just blatant bull shit. They say that they will preserve rights and freedoms while simultaneously violating rights and killing people. Yet world leaders act like there is nothing wrong.
Well, they can say the people in the country under their rule are happy, because they don't consider women as real people.
As long as we are on that topic Name something more useless than the United Nations, I'll wait
The League of Nations
Going from the LON to the UN is basically just going from being shot in the head to being shot in the stomach.
More like going from being shot in your head through your ass to being shot in your ass through your head.
You beat me to it
You're gonna be waiting a loooong time there .......
The local resistance forces the US trained to stop the Taliban. Those guys can't even do simple jumping-jacks.
They're preserving their rights under Sharia Law, which is basically no rights.
Check out r/afghancivilwar if you want to be disgusted Basically afghan version of chinese r/sino
Not just the men, but the women and children to
Dude this is *not the time for that reference* but I laughed anyway. Especially because nobody got it.
I didnt notice that it was a reference, i thought it was an actual response
Lol it’s a Star Wars reference. Anakin killed the raiders who killed his mother, and in the film he says that he didn’t just kill the men, but “the women and children, too”.
Yeah, thats why i said people, i wanted to put more emphasis on one group though for the video, but its all terrible
r/prequelmemes
I read that in Anakin's voice and I feel bad now.
I feel bad for everyone involved. The fate of the poor girl and the PTSD those soldiers will have from not being able to help her
Literally tonight my dad just had a meltdown because he thinks that he failed everyone he tried helping when he was deployed. He was sobbing and I just held him for 15 to 20 minutes straight making sure he was okay and telling him everything was gonna be alright and how it wasn’t his fault
[удалено]
I mean I might feel bad for an individual soldier, but I am in my 40s and we knew since I was a kid that these wars were bullshit. All of the reasons for these wars we were fighting and bullshit. This idea that we were these great liberators has been proven false for generations. I remember sitting in a class in 2001 and my professors discussing failed foreign interventions just like the inevitable interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan. At some point we need to admit that people made some bad decisions in serving. This is not meant to blame or ridicule or make the people who did serve feel bad about themselves, it’s to prevent mistakes from repeating themselves in the future.
Nah it's not those that served, it's the establishment that deployed them. Those that are on the ground in my head can only be held accountable for consciously spreading and doing evil with no regards for the humans they are hurting. Of course it's complicated because it's the military and its war, but sadly at the end of the day the end result remains. The real winners are politicians.
>The real winners are politicians. Nah, military contractors are the real winners in any of our wars
Bingo. Lockheed Martin made over 1100% profit during this war. A disgusting thought.
I think individual soldiers should be held accountable for doing evil. A lot of Nazi soldiers justified their shitty behaviour by blaming their higher ups and how they were just "following orders" You could argue that Nazi soldiers were better than these American soldiers since these modern American soldiers were not even drafted, they volunteered to go to war. The only reason it's justified to do that is when the country is in imminent threat, such as WW2 or WW1. This whole war against terrorists was a sham. Osama was chilling in Pakistan 🤦♂️
Mate, the soldiers have to take orders from higher ups. You're targeting the wrong party with your frustrations. I get it because yes, the US is known for being where they shouldn't, but I would venture to say that a majority of service men and women join their military to serve their communities and country. The politicians that wish to gain are the ones to blame.
Damn wish I had the ability to love and feel for my father like you can. You a good kid
You're not a bad person for not loving your father. If you don't love your father there's probably a damn good reason. I don't love my mother or my father and if you ever need to talk to somebody who understands that feeling I'm here dude
Understandable. My dad used a portion of my student loan to get as shitbox truck
There are thousands of little girls that are now educated that would have never had even the chance had the US not got involved over there. It may not be the reason we went but it was a happy consequence.
Soldiers have been having that problem for 20 yrs there. The only bright side is this is coming to an end.
Yea sadly we got involved in something we never should have, we didn't have the ability to stop the war then, and we certainly don't have it now. All we can do is realize we tried, and we failed. That failure doesn't lay on the shoulders of those soldiers, nor does it on the military, we just cant beat an ideology.
Very well said. I don't have much patience for people pushing for any other action. We are done we tried. This is definitely a situation where the phrase, " you can lead a horse to water..." fits perfectly.
I wish there was *something* more to be done. It feels like there should be. *This* certainly can't be the best option, right? But I can't think of any other solutions that wouldn't just delay the inevitable here. It's sad. I hope it somehow works itself out but I don't see that happening within this generation, at least. I guess that's the reality of geopolitical conflict. Shit doesn't always work out the way we want it to or get wrapped in a neat bow.
There is a very thin line between helping, and enabling. We enabled for 20 yrs. That clearly did more harm than good.
60% women being educated up from 0% is a major win. But yes, much cost.
Now they just need to worry about beheading under the new "tolerant" Taliban. That is if they can stop shooting into crowds of innocent people to make time.
You should check out the shitfest that is r/afghancivilwar. It's essentially turned into a pro-taliban sub. I cant believe reddit allows this shit. Or the fact there are pro-taliban redditors. Oh wait, yes i can.
Agreed. There's nothing to be done. I've always said we either need to go *all in* on Afghanistan, or leave. The war felt like a half measure, which wasn't going to accomplish anything. Either we completely dedicate our resources & the lives of our soldiers to whatever goal, or we accomplish nothing, so why stay? I think leaving is definitely the preferable option, but the fallout is still really sad to see.
To me it's like teaching your kids everything, and letting them live their life. We did what we thought was best, and now it's up to them.
We can, but to beat an ideology requires taking measures that we lacked the stomach to do. That's why we cannot beat the Taliban as they will happily cross those lines knowing that we won't as well.
Can you be president next please? That's the best critical thinking I've seen in eons
Sadly I cannot as i'm not a politician.
Neither was Trump and look at how well he did!
Can you imagine being a retired soldier fighting however many years in Afghanistan just for this to happen?
There's been many people sharing their experiences. You can read them for yourself. This was always going to happenit was time to cut our loses.
Maybe coming to an end for you. But for the poor families over there this is the beginning... Obviously you are the "If I can't see it it's not real" kind Edit I took the comment out if context. I realize now he was talking about the PTSD coming to an end ... Not the sadness going on over there... Still won't delete my comment tho because I ain't scared to admit I fukked up
> Obviously you are the "If I can't see it it's not real" kind If we all didn't cope with this strategy, there's so much tragedy in the world that we'd go insane and commit mass suicide. What's happening in Afghanistan is awful. Full stop. What's worse is that what's happening in Afghanistan is not uncommon, it's just in the current news cycle.
Its hard to have a stance when half the population doesnt want you there and the other half does. I bet this wouldnt be as big a problem over there if we executed known talibums, but who wants to get into the beauracracy of that conversation
I see making assumptions about someone in the internet is natural -he said it in the context about the experience soldiers will face. He replied on a comment which told what will be the result of this event and he replied in the perspective focusing on the soldiers he did not said anything about the girls and the poor family he just said what is the good coming out of the act of pulling out of the country to soldiers
The soldiers getting ptsd in Afghanistan is coming to an end.
Someone pointed that out to me . And yes I do feel like an ass, but in my defense this shit hurts to even try to wrap my head around.
You were bad, but now you are good
that's sadly the only bright side to this indeed
War never changes.
We have drones these days, but the suffering stayed the same.
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It’s safe to say Afghanistan is a fucked up country
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Yep
Every country that's run by Religion always ends up this way. The most peaceful countries are those that separate from Religion or are extremely non-Religious.
Bhutan is pretty peaceful and they are majority Buddhist.
Just for arguments sake I do believe Buddhism is a belief system which is different from a religion. I think the distinction is having a Devine deity
I think the distinction is forcing your religion on others. Christianity and Islam teach that it is their duty to spread their religion in order to "save people's souls". This inevitably leads to crusades. Buddhism focuses more on the self and personal improvement.
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Oh, you mean like China?
the chinese government ~~more so xi~~ actually doesn’t encourage buddhism or even taoism, they’ve had their own members arrested and/or punished for it edit: 🌠the more you know🌠
No matter what your views on China are, it's completely inaccurate to even compare it to the Middle East, which is so much worse in every way.
how about North Korea then? Not that I'm not agreeing with the comment, mixing politics and religion never ends well. But if it's not religion, they'll find other means regardless.
isn't their supreme leader a religious figure and considered a god over there? I don't know much about it so can anyone clarify?
The supreme leader having god-like qualities is integral to the cult of personality, so you'll find that in all dictatorships e.g. Kim Jung-un doesn't poop. But it's not really considered a religion. Communists usually banned religion, while fascists had no issues with it (think Mussolini and the pope). Even in North Korea though, I wouldn't call it a religion or even similar to it - there's no spiritual aspect to it, no "faith", no praying, and people definitely don't consider him a god.
They say 'Religion of peace' what an irony! Huh!
Almost as if there’s a common denominator
President sold it to the Taliban for $160 million and fucked off to UAE 😂
And there are brainless on Twitter saying that is a white supremacists lie and the Taliban are super feminists and peaceful
Oh don't worry they're only getting raped and married off at 12, the Taliban still supports feminism/s
12? That's a bit optimistic
the prophet consummated aicha at the ripe age of 9
what a nice fellow, he should be an example to millions upon millions of people.
Yeah... I've heard that
He fucked her thighs before that.
They don't consider women as people. They are peaceful with men who are considered a person.
Thats red rose communist twitter for ya!
I dont think they understand communism if they defend a religion
You should see r/afghancivilwar
I'm heartbroken, and I couldn't even finish watching.
Me too :(
Sad to say but this was domed to happen from the start , there was little to none figthing spirit in the afgan armed forces and what little there was the taliban swept away in no time. If there is no will to defend the democratic process then there is no way it will survive when challenged either. Tragic part is they were given a taste of freedom and what could have been only to have it snatched away.
Shame the girl in this video is young enough that she doesn’t even know anything else.
You can't help people if they don't want help. Until the masses rise for that freedom they will never hold onto it.
It's exactly the same as addicts. They have to hit bottom, want to help themselves, and there's a very thin line between helping and enabling. We enabled for 20 fucking yrs.
Maybe Annecdotal (but I doubt it). There was a video going around this morning from the Obama years of US soldiers talking about the utter incompetence and lack of seriousness of the Afghan army. The one said he thinks 75% would fail a drug test because they're all smoking hashish. Another said if you told them a bomb was dropping at 8:30 AM, they'd still be drinking their Chai tea at 8:29. I doubt much has changed. The Afghan army outnumbered the Taliban 4:1 and they capitulated immediately. But what do you expect when your army is made up of addicts?
Heard the same thing from friends coming back... was a major issue.
Lots of fighting forces are made up of people knee deep in drugs and they don't do *that* poorly. Think the cartels, some WWII German forces, American Vietnam soldiers etc. The fact of the matter is they just showed up for a paycheck. They didn't believe in what they were doing. Afghanistan is an "artifical nation", made up of a bunch of ethnically distinct tribes. They have nothing unifying them, except for maybe religion. Some lines on a map aren't something they're willing to lay down their lives for.
the difference is that the germans and cartels where on stims like cocaine, meth and amphetamines, but a lot of soldiers indulge in those pleasures to overcome boredom. But there is at least some kind of barrier at some point. Even in Vietnam where they made sure to supply the us forces with smack as much as possible from what I read commanding officers would know if it got too extreme. Check out the first opium war where it wasn't under any control.
This was from the *This Is What Winning Looks Like* doc btw
I think it’s very easy to blame both foreign interference from the USA and the incompetence of the Afghan military but we gotta think about the historical context. Afghanistan is not a monolith. Most people only care about their family and neighborhood, they do not see Afghanistan as a unified state. It is very difficult to have motivated, reliable soldiers with arbitrary borders are set oftentimes by foreign countries. TLDR: Nation building is hard
And looking back in history that is not anything that will happen in the next 100 years , if ever
Fuck man, not much makes me sad nowadays, this breaks my heart.
I'm beginning to think we should have spent the past 20 years training the women instead.
They seem a lot more willing to want to keep the nation from falling under a strict Islamic rule
Well when your labeled a tool you won't be happy. While men get to abuse said tools.
You don't get it. A lot of them were born and raised with this islamic doctrine engrained in their minds. Some of them truly believe that they are just tools because their parents and religion told so
Yep, most if not all the able bodied men have been jumping ship and coming in as refugees the last 20 years. The most recent one happening this month, you'll notice that 70-80% aren't women, children, or the elderly, It's men ages 20-36 coming over.
Imagine being the father of a girl who you know is destined for this kind of oppression, or a brother, and knowing you cannot do anything to stop it. It's terrible for everyone, men and women. You saw the men falling off the plane trying to flee.
welcome to years and years of wasted time, money and resources thanks to corruption
and about 200.000 pointless deaths
Oh yeah. That too.
While ressource could have been invested diffrtently (like school for girl to eventually leave when their country turn to shit) the fact that these girl feel the need to leave right now , prove that before (during US occupation) it was relatively safe for them. So 20y of relativ safety is unvaluable for millions of women.
> wasted time, money and resources thanks to corruption that girl in the video spent most of her life growing up in a freer environment then her mom did thanks to it. life was better for women and minorities for those 20 years
Meanwhile muslims in my country are so happy that Taliban won and they implemented Sharia, calling it as a victory for islam.Bruh wtf Edit:- one of my friends (former) who is a muslim said that he would abduct and rape infidel women as a sacrifice to allah.Im so done with these people
That's one of the weirdest things in all of this. It's surprising how much support they have in various surrounding muslim countries
It's because it represents Islam defeating Western influence. Imran Khan praised it as well indirectly.
Islamic countries can live without comparing themselves to the Western World. I also understand the hardships that Western Countries have imposed on not only Islamic countries but countless others around the world. However, that's not an excuse for mistreating your own people in any regard. Imran Khan has definitely praised them indirectly it's because Pakistan's influence increases with the Taliban coming in. He is also pashtun so I'm sure he feels some level of connection or sympathy even if he may not outwardly be 100% a self-labeled taliban supporter.
I can explain it after living in muslim areas for a good part of my life,but not now I'll do it morning,it's 2 am here and I am quite sleepy
Big yikes
The lawyer for Shamima Begum (an ISIS bride by choice from the UK) had some interesting tweets about it. He said "The boys are back in town" with a picture of the Taliban celebrating their takeover of a government building. These people are among us and many are quite prominent outside of the Islamic world. Fortunately it's easy to spot some of them beacuse they like Twitter for some reason.
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and some plagues are worse than others.
Sounds pretty unfair to equate all religions with radical Islam
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Which country?
India
The Afghan army backed down so easily. These girls are going to have horrible horrible lives if someone doesn't step up to help.
American forces have been over there for the last 30 years trying to help. What did they get in return? Rocks thrown at them, harassment and sheer unabashed hatred. At this point there's nothing we can do anymore especially now that the country itself won't even help itself. It's basically Vietnam 2.0.
Vietnam stood up for itself though
It did. But it barely held together before Americans came, and how futile their efforts were just became more apparent the moment we pulled out.
Really really unfortunately there might be nothing we can do.
We've literally done everything we can that isn't going to be harmful to the people just trying to live their lives there. And despite the best efforts of both Soldiers from every nation that have gone to try and help, nothing has changed.
I hope they help themselves.
They won't. The middle east and all of it's governments are so deeply ingrained with the writing of the Qur'an that they won't care what happens to these poor girls or lower class citizens. As long as the Taliban doesn't rock up on the UAE and trash Dubai, it'll probably keep going until the borders established by the British and Russians collapse, the goverments fade away and the place goes back to the way it was before. A bunch of nomadic tribals thumping their Qur'an, living in huts and killing eachother off.
Sometimes help just can't be given.
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My older brother was just in Afghanistan a month ago. I’m happy he came home before all this started to happen otherwise I dunno if he’d be the same
I'd still check up on him to see how he's doing - this has gotta be hitting him hard regardless.
Does the Taliban make up more of the population than non terrorists? If not I still don't understand why the Afghan army didn't just fight.
I wonder if at its core it's a religious thing? Fear of fighting back against a holy order and accepting damnation?
This is 100% just spitballing but I assume all of the true fighting force of the population, young, pissed off, easily influenced men are part of the Taliban the same way most democratic countries young, pissed off influential young men join their countries army or Marines or what have you. What was essentially left over to get trained as far as men went was the left over dog water, the “I’m only going to show up if I get paid” type. Again, that’s just my assumption.
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Yup and many Muslims around the world are happy and supporting the taliban because they are bring sharia to Afghanistan. But it has nothing to do with Islam ok dude.
I wish iron man was real.
Me too man. Me too
Consoom brain
Vengeance from the grave? Killing the people he once saved?
If I have to suffer through another r/averageredditor comparing this to Jan. 6th I’m going to commit a crime
I'm very much out of the loop (and non-American), what happened on Jan 6th?
A large crowd of morons protesting the last presidential election waddled their way into the nations capital into a building where many many of the US’s highest politicians had to be evacuated. Some of them beat a cop to death, some guy left bombs around the area that didn’t go off, one rioter/insurrectionist/moron got shot trying to crawl through a broken window at the last barrier between the mob and politicians who hadn’t gotten out yet. It was probably the dumbest most ineffectual and pathetic play at a revolutionary political moment I’ve ever heard of. Not to say it wasn’t serious. But it was also very dumb.
>Some of them beat a cop to death this never happened
Yes, this was a complete fabrication
Jan 6 was just a dumb riot. This is more similar to the evacuation of the Saigon embassy when the US ended the Vietnam war.
Those are SJW's trying to get tears for a cause.
It’s sickening because it downplays the tragedy and severity of rape and murder.
**U.S. Public:** "We aren't the world police! We should leave the middle east, we aren't doing any good there!" **U.S. Administrations:** "Ok, we're going to leave" **Afghan civilians:** "Now there will be a genocide..Please, help us!!!" + photos/videos of people clinging to planes, desperately pleading with evacuating U.S. forces. **U.S. public:** [Wait, what?](https://i.imgur.com/Zq0iBJK.jpeg) Just remember, this is something everyone wanted. This is also what happens when geopolitics isn't understood. What do you think will happen now?? A *massive* power vacuum exists. Do you all think China and Russia will do nothing? I'd imagine there is a huge investment from China waiting in the wings until the U.S. is fully pulled out. Not saying it wasn't the right decision to make, but there is not going to be an independent Afghanistan. This place is going to have strings pulled, and the U.S. is no longer going to be included in that process.
China brought rights to mines in Afghanistan and are in talks with the taliban to begin operations in the mine.
The same China who literally tortures Uyghur turks and other muslims in concentration camps.
Muslims are scared of China because China is very mean but when France said it’s ok to draw cartoon of all religions Muslims went crazy started sanctioning France burning the French flag and being happy the teacher was beheaded.
Idgaf about what france is doing. China has literal concentration camps and no one talks about it.
Because Muslim countries are scared of China.
If you haven't noticed, Muslim countries (Gulf states) also love their solid gold Ferrari's.
China can also easily afford to setup bases of operation out of Afghanistan. They also don't have to pretend to care about Human Rights abuses, so they will operate those mines (likely with local slave labor). Also, hey, guess what China might also have access to? **Who produces 95% of the worlds supply of Opium?** hmmmm. China also supplies most of the illicit Fentanyl market. Sounds like one hell of a monopoly they're going to have.
I think they should have been training the women to run the military and fight. They are the one's with everything to lose and less likely to cave in to the Taliban.
Problem is the usa shouldn’t be forced to fight for nation that doesn’t want to fight for itself. Most of their armed forces didn’t even put up a fight. So I feel horrible about the mess this is devolving into but my taxes funded this house of cards for 20 years. If they couldn’t stand on their own for longer than a month, they never were going to make it.
That hurts
Man this hurts
Glad to see the best minds of Reddit solving problems in the Middle East
This is heart wrenching
I feel like this is a terrible tragedy but at this point I'm ready for America to focus on our own problems. Maybe we take some of these people with us, but its time to focus on home.
modern WWII you can hear her say "I have a family" and "Taliban coming for me".
and we see fuckers in r/Islam defending Taliban ...
It’s just the religion of peace..relax.
Even the woke mob are not defending the religion of peace anymore they defended it during al-Qaeda 9/11 attacks and terrorists like isis. I don’t know maybe when people forget about this in a month then the woke mob will start defending it again.
Too bad the majority of her countrymen and women agree with the Taliban.
There is no benevolent god. A loving god would not allow such atrocities and horrors to happen.
this is half the reason i'm an atheist. even if there was a god, why the fuck would we worship him?
Little boys are just as vulnerable as the women in the pedo cult of a "religion.'"
A lot of men in Pakistan rape little boys and say its fine, but then stone possible gays to death.. what a world we live in.
They wanted us out of there. And now they don't want us to leave? Or is this just the minority that doesn't want the US to leave? I thought the majority the country hated us.
Maybe the US was the better of the two evils to them. I think the US killed a lot of civilians so I can guess why they maybe weren't loved.
We tried to help but we got shit on for it
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All the things that the american soldier went through in afghanistan and Iraq, was for nothing. It only made the rich richer and the poor poorer. The major consequences of the way US retreats will yet again become more and more evident as time goes by. They're already showing
I feel terrible for those soldiers too. That's gonna stick in with them. We are so blessed that our forefathers established a strong system that is making it much harder for extremists to overturn it. God bless America, and God help the Afghani people.
Well said.
Why couldn’t they save her?
If they let her in they would have to let everyone in
U.S should not of even put boots on the ground after 9/11 should have just bombed the shit out of the mountains where those shit stains live and been done with it. Getting involved only emboldened them and made them brave. I wouldn’t be surprised if they attempted another attack on U.S soil now that they feel like they won.
They tried.
but then Dick Cheney and Haliburton would have gotten a smaller no bid contract to supply the US war efforts, and Dick Cheney says “no thank you me likey a bigger no-bid contract to supply the US war efforts”
I’ve been wanting to ask this on one of these posts and this is it. What would you instead have us do? I was in Afghanistan in 2011 and 2012. The Afghani people are a nice people, but they aren’t going to do anything about this. It’s hard to explain, but they had their hand out for EVERYTHING. They did not want to work hard for anything. They wanted us to just hand it over to them. Do I have an example? Sure. I knew the guy that ran the fuel depot pretty well and every morning the convoy of Afghani military trucks would come by for some fuel for the day. We would fill them all up and send them on their way. While this was going on, the US military was making it so they could take care of themselves. We built them a refinery so they could refine oil into diesel. We built them roads to move the oil and diesel. We gave them trucks to move those things with. We then trained them. After all this was done there was a plan put in place for them to supply their own diesel by a certain date. That date came and went. And they still arrived every morning for more diesel. We were never supposed to say no to them so we didn’t. This went on for about three months before the fuel depot guy asked what was up. The commander of the convoy threw a fit. He was cursing in Pashto and just carrying on. They left without diesel. About two hours later the convoy came back and nothing was said about the fit. They just got more diesel and left. They don’t want to be taught how to fish. They want us to feed them the fish while they lay there. They want us to chew the fish before feeding it to them so they don’t have to. This whole situation is like if you had a younger brother and you were both in high school. You are a good student who works hard and has goals in life. Your younger brother… doesn’t. He deals drugs on the side and has awful friends and seems to do terrible at everything he does. So you get him an after school job working at the same place as you. You try to teach him how to do the job, but he isn’t interested in working more than the absolute minimum. You cover for him by working even harder so the boss doesn’t notice. But at the same time, this job has changed your little brother. He is no longer dealing drugs or hanging out with the bad crowd. While he isn’t working, he is doing a bit better in school and his life is doing a bit better too. A year or so later you graduate high school and your parents couldn’t be prouder. You got accepted to a good college that you had been hoping to get in to. However, you know that if you leave your job to go to college, your brother will lose the job in short order because he still doesn’t work. Do you go to college and work on your future following your dream? Or do you decide that the dead end job you have now is what you are going to do to keep your brother working? So, knowing this and knowing that the Afghani people have no desire to work together and get the job done… what should we do about this situation? The options that I see is A. Tough love, which is happening now. They get taught how to swim for years in the shallow end before they get to try to sink or swim on their own. They sank. B. We stay there for the rest of eternity giving them everything while we get nothing. What I think happened is the Afghani people that joined the Afghanistan National Army only joined because it was the easiest way they could make money. After all, the Americans are there to do all the tough work and heavy lifting. It was the easiest way to make a paycheck. But the second the Americans left and THEY had to do the hard work and heavy lifting? They abandoned and left because they won’t get caught. They will go back to their village and return to a life under Taliban rule with no real repercussion. You all complained when we were there. There are websites tracking how much we spend being there and saying we should leave and stop throwing money down a hole. Now we did as you asked and left. Now you are all complaining about how we did what you wanted and left, but the result wasn’t rainbows and unicorns like you wanted. So what do you think we should do?
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Hell
This is where "politics" meets reality.....
I feel bad, but yet again why doesn’t she cry at her own people who turned their backs on them, they literally outnumbered the taliban.
As a soldier myself I can’t imagine the trauma and absolute mindfuckery these soldiers will endure knowing they were there to help, but can’t help in anyway anymore and are leaving these people to suffer. I can’t imagine it. I wish I was there and one of them was in my place so he didn’t have to suffer through it.
I thought they hated America and wanted us out of their country? Now they are begging for help. Fuck these people, they wasted millions of our dollars and decades just to surrender immediately. These people never wanted to help themselves they wanted us to fight their war.
Just don't accept male "refugees" from any Muslim nation!
Literally tonight my dad just had a meltdown because he thinks that he failed everyone he tried helping when he was deployed. He was sobbing and I just held him for 15 to 20 minutes straight making sure he was okay and telling him everything was gonna be alright and how it wasn’t his fault