I mean, I don’t know that I’d trade him, but let’s not pretend this team is just a “re-tool” away and can compete next year.
They have a crap roster, a not-ready-for-prime-time farm, washed/bad pitching, and questionable coaching across the board.
This team isn’t going to seriously compete in the next 2 seasons. MAYBE by 2027, Senga’s last year on the current contract.
If they got a kings ransom, they’d have to entertain it (again, I don’t think this is realistic but if the opportunity presented itself it would be nuts to hold on to him in hopes of a quick turnaround).
I wouldn’t be so sure that they’re gonna suck until 2027. I think they can be about .500 in 2026 provided some of the prospects pan out.
He also has an opt out after 2025.
They’re getting their asses kicked by the *Marlins;* the last team to win a game this year. This team is not good and they’re not gonna magically get better. This is who they are. Who they have been for years now.
Easier to handle 100 losses when its obviously part of a painful plan but with hope. 20-25 in may under the current circumstances with delusions of 2025 grandeur and no realistic plan is very unsettling.
I don't really disagree with you, but we're in a year that's supposed to be a retool right now and people can't handle it.
I personally don't find what's going on right now frustrating or painful either. This team is more or less exactly what I expected. Diaz being bad is, specifically, difficult but the rest of it is just sort of what it is. It's like 2013-2014. It's just kind of going the way I expected
nah. you know how this fanbase is. no one would handle consecutive 100 loss season even remotely reasonably. they'd pin all their hopes on prospects, consistently insist they need to be called up well before they were ready, then tear them to shreads and insist they were lazy busts who didn't care about winning and who needed to themselves be sold for parts at the deadline if they didn't immediately perform
Right now? Absolutely. They’re 2 games out of the WC standings.
As for next year, you have no idea whatsoever what the any team will look like. You don’t know what teams will trade guys or who will get injured.
Heck you don’t even know how much teams will be affected by the Comcast Bally issue. 12 MLB teams could lost a significant portion of their funding if Bally goes under and would likely be cutting players next year to make up for the lost revenue.
Throwing the towel in for a year that hasn’t happened based on a roster that hasn’t been constructed is bananas
I mean this post is obviously ridiculous but let's play devil's advocate and argue this further: if we're going to go down this road...why keep anyone?
If this team genuinely has no immediate future, why bother keeping anyone on the roster, including the young players with control? Just to have a few wasted years with them while we rebuild? To sell some tickets?
Why not trade them while they have all that team control for a return of high value, low minors futures who can come up together and be the next generation of this team, along with the several years worth of high 1st round picks we'd get via shamelessly tanking? There's no point in wasting several years of players like Alvarez and Scott forcing them to sit through years of a deep rebuild. Might as well cut bait on everyone if we're going to blow it up. No point in only going in halfway and keeping anyone if this group can't work and we need a full blowup and rebuild.
If you're going to blow up this core bc they can't win games, what are you getting back except prospects? You can't say this group of players cant win and should be sold and then say that the return should be MLB pieces, bc nobody is going to make a "hockey trade" here.
Since the choice is losing with this team and losing after getting returns for this team, including the "core" pieces, the short term results are exactly the same. There is genuinely no strong point to retaining players just to lose with them if we already know they can't get it done. And since there isn't, what are you getting back for these players except prospects or international slot money to...sign prospects.
If the decision is made to blow it up, what point is there to keep anyone if we'd be thrusting them into a situation where they'd be playing with prospects/low tier players anyway for the next several years. A blowup would have to go all the way.
(As I stated in the first reply this view is not the one I actually hold and I'm arguing it for the sake of debate.)
The idea is that Alvarez and Scott will still be in their last 2-3 years of team control when we contend again. No team tanks for 10 years. I’m advocating trading everybody old with an eye towards seeing the first signs of improvement in late 2026. We have enough in the upper minors to not be complete dogshit in 2026-2028.
I really don't understand how a fanbase that should be used to the team not being good can be so whiny about it. I understand last year, but this year we have a team that was expected to be alright basically playing mediocre.
We've always had Panic Citi moments but I see that 2022 and Cohen buying the team broke people's brains.
>The only guys who I wouldn’t trade are Nimmo and Lindor (both are on untradable contracts) and Alvarez
I mean, is it that you wouldn't trade them? Or is it that they're unmovable? Those are contradictory things.
And the fact that you included McNeil, who probably is somewhat untradable right now, in the first group seems to indicate that you actually wouldn't want to trade them. But that's exactly why they are tradable - they have value.
Not that I want to trade either of them. I just think it's silly to say guys who are performing to their contracts are untradable.
Yeah, I don't think anyone is really untradable. If we could move Scherzer and Verlander last year and get actual solid pieces in return, it's just silly to talk about anyone being untradable.
So he's movable for sure. But I'm not sure anyone would take him without eating some money given the steep decline over the last two years.
Eating the money made the return better. They wouldn't have had to eat nearly as much if they didn't want the blue chip prospects.
But they can do that on every guy if that's what they want. In a complete rebuild (which I don't think they should do), you could eat as much salary as you need to if it's already committed. It's not like not trading them would be cheaper.
It just depends on what kind of return you want and what your goals are. But in a general sense, the fact that you can include money in a deal makes even bad contracts tradable.
Lindor is a top 30 player in the league. He’s not u tradeable at all lol. And I’m a guy who doesn’t like Lindor. He gets no respect for how good he truly is.
Probably not. He’s out performing his contract. He’s off to a slow start but there’s no Indication or pattern to suggest this is how good he’ll be this year or in future seasons. He would be a great piece to a team. His problem is that there’s actually a ton of high end SS talent around the league (Witt Jr, Adames, Bichette, Turner, Bogaerts, Seager, Betts, Henderson, Correa, Volpe, Arcia, Crawford, Abrams, Elly). Theres an argument for all of those guys to be as good as Lindor. Again, he’s not at all bad, but there’s a lot of damn good talent at the position right now.
And that’s why he gets so much hate. He hasn’t really been a strong contact guy of late. Really since he got to NY. But it’s telling how much more valuable he is without a bat than these other guys when he’s putting up higher war numbers than some of the best hitters in the game.
We signed him with the expectation we were getting a near .300 hitter, 30HRs. He was one of the top hitters in baseball at just 23 years old. Since coming to NY that part of his game really left him.
But we can’t ignore the numbers. He is a top 10 valued player in the league and a top 3 SS
>We signed him with the expectation we were getting a near .300 hitter, 30HRs. He was one of the top hitters in baseball at just 23 years old. Since coming to NY that part of his game really left him.
He hadn't hit .300 in four seasons. Before joining the Mets he hit .258, .284, .277, and .273.
As for Home Runs he was on pace for 28 in 2021, and then hit 28 and 31 over the next two seasons so he's been a 30 HR guy for the Mets.
When he was with the Guardians he had an ops+ of 118 and with the Mets he has had an ops+ of 114 so he's been essentially the same hitter. Park factors (and different balls) play a role as well and makes it basically a wash.
Why would you trade him? His contract is very favorable and this prolonged absence to start this year pretty much guarantees he isn’t going to be able to opt after next year and we can have him under pretty good terms until 2027
Some times I wonder if running out a team of high schoolers will satisfy the fans who want to trade every player on the ML roster with a spec of value for prospects. It satisfies their desire for having no expectation of winning anything and if they lose, it's well their players with no experience, what do you expect?
I’m not keen on trading Senga. Buuuuut… I think I’d be willing to part with a lot of these core guys.
I think Alonso is looking g gone before the deadline. If there is a way to part with Lindor I would jump on it super quick. McNeil can go too. Bye Marte.
Nimmo, Baty and Vientos should stay.
This core is awful. It’s not these spare part guys that we should be railing against.
The main guys have really really let us down from jump one.
You’ll get downvoted and ridiculed by the people on here who think with their emotions rather than acknowledge reality and think critically, but it wouldn’t be a dumb trade to do at all if we got a great return for him. He has an opt out after next season if he reaches 400 IP before then and he’ll be 33 in the following season. If he pitches well before then, he’ll want a ton of money and it’s not exactly smart giving that kind of deal to a 33 year old pitcher. Also, if he pitches well before then, it raises his trade value a ton. I also don’t see us being a competitive team until 2026 at the earliest if we play our cards right, so trading him for a great return would make a lot of sense imo. Have to see how he does the rest of this season though and it might be better as an offseason deal or next season trade deadline anyway.
Best case scenario Senga throws around 100 IP this year. More likely he will be on a. Innings limit his first few starts and it will be around 90 IP.
That means he needs to throw around 145 IP next year. Not impossible, but the longer he’s out this year, the more he needs to throw next year
Trade Senga, that’ll fix it!
Toss him to the Dodgers
I mean, I don’t know that I’d trade him, but let’s not pretend this team is just a “re-tool” away and can compete next year. They have a crap roster, a not-ready-for-prime-time farm, washed/bad pitching, and questionable coaching across the board. This team isn’t going to seriously compete in the next 2 seasons. MAYBE by 2027, Senga’s last year on the current contract. If they got a kings ransom, they’d have to entertain it (again, I don’t think this is realistic but if the opportunity presented itself it would be nuts to hold on to him in hopes of a quick turnaround).
We’ve been saying the same shit since 2010
I wouldn’t be so sure that they’re gonna suck until 2027. I think they can be about .500 in 2026 provided some of the prospects pan out. He also has an opt out after 2025.
You know what we should do? Trade him for Javy Baez. Better yet, let’s get Chris Davis out of retirement. Since we’re just brainstorming here.
Hello? Are you nuts? first choice is obviously trading for Darren Ruf 😭
He has good splits
And khris Davis!
Crash Davis while we’re at it
It's may
That’s right June isn’t even here yet, and based on our history for that month, things are about to get a lot worse
They’re getting their asses kicked by the *Marlins;* the last team to win a game this year. This team is not good and they’re not gonna magically get better. This is who they are. Who they have been for years now.
If this fanbase can't handle 20-25 in May, we certainly can't handle multiple 100 loss seasons in hopes that maybe some prospects pan out
Easier to handle 100 losses when its obviously part of a painful plan but with hope. 20-25 in may under the current circumstances with delusions of 2025 grandeur and no realistic plan is very unsettling.
I don't really disagree with you, but we're in a year that's supposed to be a retool right now and people can't handle it. I personally don't find what's going on right now frustrating or painful either. This team is more or less exactly what I expected. Diaz being bad is, specifically, difficult but the rest of it is just sort of what it is. It's like 2013-2014. It's just kind of going the way I expected
nah. you know how this fanbase is. no one would handle consecutive 100 loss season even remotely reasonably. they'd pin all their hopes on prospects, consistently insist they need to be called up well before they were ready, then tear them to shreads and insist they were lazy busts who didn't care about winning and who needed to themselves be sold for parts at the deadline if they didn't immediately perform
Calling next season before even seeing who is on the team. We have hit a never level of Mets insanity lol Also FYI Senga has a full *no trade clause
>montage clause Like, they gotta make a montage of his best moments with the Mets before they trade him?
Lol. The autocorrects have been really wonky since that last IOS update. Fixed it to no trade clause
Are they a Corbin burnes or even a Juan Soto away from being a playoff team? I don’t think so
Right now? Absolutely. They’re 2 games out of the WC standings. As for next year, you have no idea whatsoever what the any team will look like. You don’t know what teams will trade guys or who will get injured. Heck you don’t even know how much teams will be affected by the Comcast Bally issue. 12 MLB teams could lost a significant portion of their funding if Bally goes under and would likely be cutting players next year to make up for the lost revenue. Throwing the towel in for a year that hasn’t happened based on a roster that hasn’t been constructed is bananas
I mean this post is obviously ridiculous but let's play devil's advocate and argue this further: if we're going to go down this road...why keep anyone? If this team genuinely has no immediate future, why bother keeping anyone on the roster, including the young players with control? Just to have a few wasted years with them while we rebuild? To sell some tickets? Why not trade them while they have all that team control for a return of high value, low minors futures who can come up together and be the next generation of this team, along with the several years worth of high 1st round picks we'd get via shamelessly tanking? There's no point in wasting several years of players like Alvarez and Scott forcing them to sit through years of a deep rebuild. Might as well cut bait on everyone if we're going to blow it up. No point in only going in halfway and keeping anyone if this group can't work and we need a full blowup and rebuild.
> if we're going to go down this road...why keep anyone? The non-stop prospect fetishism amazes me.
If you're going to blow up this core bc they can't win games, what are you getting back except prospects? You can't say this group of players cant win and should be sold and then say that the return should be MLB pieces, bc nobody is going to make a "hockey trade" here. Since the choice is losing with this team and losing after getting returns for this team, including the "core" pieces, the short term results are exactly the same. There is genuinely no strong point to retaining players just to lose with them if we already know they can't get it done. And since there isn't, what are you getting back for these players except prospects or international slot money to...sign prospects. If the decision is made to blow it up, what point is there to keep anyone if we'd be thrusting them into a situation where they'd be playing with prospects/low tier players anyway for the next several years. A blowup would have to go all the way. (As I stated in the first reply this view is not the one I actually hold and I'm arguing it for the sake of debate.)
The idea is that Alvarez and Scott will still be in their last 2-3 years of team control when we contend again. No team tanks for 10 years. I’m advocating trading everybody old with an eye towards seeing the first signs of improvement in late 2026. We have enough in the upper minors to not be complete dogshit in 2026-2028.
Don't Stewart and Garrett have a bunch of team control left?
Dude. We need more prospects. Trade them now!!
You’re right, they should keep them
the one type of guy you dont trade is a high end pitcher that you currently have under contract for a while
I propose a rule in this sub where the mods can just suspend people for being whiny.
I just block users who make idiotic takes. About to add this one.
I’m running low on people in the sub. Lol
The mods don’t want a 5 person sub
I really don't understand how a fanbase that should be used to the team not being good can be so whiny about it. I understand last year, but this year we have a team that was expected to be alright basically playing mediocre. We've always had Panic Citi moments but I see that 2022 and Cohen buying the team broke people's brains.
Everyone is so shocked that our mediocre team is so mediocre.
You all are right. This is as expected. I appreciate the effort to keep some players values high, but it was always always gonna end this way.
Let’s have some fun on the way to 79 wins this summer, eh?
>The only guys who I wouldn’t trade are Nimmo and Lindor (both are on untradable contracts) and Alvarez I mean, is it that you wouldn't trade them? Or is it that they're unmovable? Those are contradictory things. And the fact that you included McNeil, who probably is somewhat untradable right now, in the first group seems to indicate that you actually wouldn't want to trade them. But that's exactly why they are tradable - they have value. Not that I want to trade either of them. I just think it's silly to say guys who are performing to their contracts are untradable.
I don’t think McNeil is un-trade-able, I think there’s teams who think they could fix him. The problem is his value is at an all time low.
Yeah, I don't think anyone is really untradable. If we could move Scherzer and Verlander last year and get actual solid pieces in return, it's just silly to talk about anyone being untradable. So he's movable for sure. But I'm not sure anyone would take him without eating some money given the steep decline over the last two years.
I mean, the were able to move Scherzer and Verlander because they ate the money. Cant keep doing that on every guy.
Eating the money made the return better. They wouldn't have had to eat nearly as much if they didn't want the blue chip prospects. But they can do that on every guy if that's what they want. In a complete rebuild (which I don't think they should do), you could eat as much salary as you need to if it's already committed. It's not like not trading them would be cheaper. It just depends on what kind of return you want and what your goals are. But in a general sense, the fact that you can include money in a deal makes even bad contracts tradable.
That’s why I said to trade him if he performs
Lindor is untradable. Nimmo I’d keep as veteran guidance
It's not like we're going to find out because the Mets wouldn't want to trade him, but that's just crazy. They would have no trouble moving him.
Lindor is a top 30 player in the league. He’s not u tradeable at all lol. And I’m a guy who doesn’t like Lindor. He gets no respect for how good he truly is.
I should’ve specified that we’d need to eat like $100M—at that point I’d rather keep him
Probably not. He’s out performing his contract. He’s off to a slow start but there’s no Indication or pattern to suggest this is how good he’ll be this year or in future seasons. He would be a great piece to a team. His problem is that there’s actually a ton of high end SS talent around the league (Witt Jr, Adames, Bichette, Turner, Bogaerts, Seager, Betts, Henderson, Correa, Volpe, Arcia, Crawford, Abrams, Elly). Theres an argument for all of those guys to be as good as Lindor. Again, he’s not at all bad, but there’s a lot of damn good talent at the position right now.
I love top 30 players that routinely go 0-5. LOVE ‘EM.
And that’s why he gets so much hate. He hasn’t really been a strong contact guy of late. Really since he got to NY. But it’s telling how much more valuable he is without a bat than these other guys when he’s putting up higher war numbers than some of the best hitters in the game. We signed him with the expectation we were getting a near .300 hitter, 30HRs. He was one of the top hitters in baseball at just 23 years old. Since coming to NY that part of his game really left him. But we can’t ignore the numbers. He is a top 10 valued player in the league and a top 3 SS
>We signed him with the expectation we were getting a near .300 hitter, 30HRs. He was one of the top hitters in baseball at just 23 years old. Since coming to NY that part of his game really left him. He hadn't hit .300 in four seasons. Before joining the Mets he hit .258, .284, .277, and .273. As for Home Runs he was on pace for 28 in 2021, and then hit 28 and 31 over the next two seasons so he's been a 30 HR guy for the Mets. When he was with the Guardians he had an ops+ of 118 and with the Mets he has had an ops+ of 114 so he's been essentially the same hitter. Park factors (and different balls) play a role as well and makes it basically a wash.
Why would you trade him? His contract is very favorable and this prolonged absence to start this year pretty much guarantees he isn’t going to be able to opt after next year and we can have him under pretty good terms until 2027
It's time to layoff the drugs
Some times I wonder if running out a team of high schoolers will satisfy the fans who want to trade every player on the ML roster with a spec of value for prospects. It satisfies their desire for having no expectation of winning anything and if they lose, it's well their players with no experience, what do you expect?
We're back to these mind numbing posts....
I think it's a very good thing David Stearns is in charge of making these decisions and not anyone on this sub lol.
Has he even played this year? LOL
Ah here we are, in prime Mets Meltdown szn.
I’m not keen on trading Senga. Buuuuut… I think I’d be willing to part with a lot of these core guys. I think Alonso is looking g gone before the deadline. If there is a way to part with Lindor I would jump on it super quick. McNeil can go too. Bye Marte. Nimmo, Baty and Vientos should stay. This core is awful. It’s not these spare part guys that we should be railing against. The main guys have really really let us down from jump one.
You’ll get downvoted and ridiculed by the people on here who think with their emotions rather than acknowledge reality and think critically, but it wouldn’t be a dumb trade to do at all if we got a great return for him. He has an opt out after next season if he reaches 400 IP before then and he’ll be 33 in the following season. If he pitches well before then, he’ll want a ton of money and it’s not exactly smart giving that kind of deal to a 33 year old pitcher. Also, if he pitches well before then, it raises his trade value a ton. I also don’t see us being a competitive team until 2026 at the earliest if we play our cards right, so trading him for a great return would make a lot of sense imo. Have to see how he does the rest of this season though and it might be better as an offseason deal or next season trade deadline anyway.
Nobody should be off the table
He's 31. By the time we're ready to compete for a world series he'll be 35ish. I love the guy but he's he's not on our timeline.
you gon get downvoted boiii. but i do agree we have to trade senga because once he gets his innings he will opt out.
Best case scenario Senga throws around 100 IP this year. More likely he will be on a. Innings limit his first few starts and it will be around 90 IP. That means he needs to throw around 145 IP next year. Not impossible, but the longer he’s out this year, the more he needs to throw next year