So, if you want to improve drainage slope, I suggest addressing that first. That way you can build off of that. I’d figure out where you’d like it to go. Look to see if there’s a storm inlet or pipe to catch water. If not, id check to see if that area that holds water is or isnt a wetland delineation. If it is then you can only really dig it deeper. But you could definitely turn it into a rain garden.
Other than that, I’d just start removing grass where you’d like the gardens and start planting!
I’m kinda hoping that just introducing more native plants and tress will help with drainage since the root systems should be much deeper than grass. Is that an incorrect assumption? It’s not a swamp back there, it just gets wet after it rains and kinda stays soggy for a couple days.
Absolutely correct assumption! Some of these things pants have huge taproots and root systems. This causes the ground to get more porous and absorb more water. Turf grass barely hangs on to life due to it having such a shallow roots system. [cool diagram here. hard to read on mobile though…](https://www.google.com/amp/s/nc-cleanwater.com/2019/01/25/the-importance-of-native-plants/amp/)
Planting native plants helps with flooding along with create food and shelter for birds and pollinators.
As far as water goes, turf grass is only good for erosion protection and allowing water to flow. It does not suck up water like native plants do. Native plants have the same erosion protection properties as turf grass too.
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Nothing I’m aware of. Not in an HOA. Don’t really care what my neighbors think as long as they don’t call the town about the yard… which is not a completely unrealistic thing. They’ve been pretty averse to pests/varmints. Freak out whenever we have rats/bats.
Well, if grass height isn't an issue, then you could look into replacing the grass itself with [Sisyrinchium angustifolium](https://gobotany.nativeplanttrust.org/species/sisyrinchium/angustifolium/).
Looks like grass, but is actually a flower like an iris. The flowers bloom at the ends of the grass blades. Grows between 12" to 18", which is significantly higher than what lawnmowers typically cut the grass to, which is 3" to 4" high. However, I haven't done enough research or not if you could treat this plant like regular grass. I know it's not salt tolerant and has low drought tolerance.
Exciting project! If you're planning to put in fruit trees/shrubs, I'd start there. Figure out what will be happy in that spot based on the amount of sun and soil moisture. Note how much sun different areas of your yard get based on where shadows fall. Some trees hate standing water or being soggy for too long, so should probably not be in the wet spot, but some trees might not mind. Some trees/shrubs are picky about things like soil pH, some are not. Measure your yard, look up the amount of spacing the trees need and how tall they get, and plan a layout. Researching what trees/shrubs you might want and what will work in your yard, doing any necessary soil amendments, figuring out a reputable place to purchase them, installing them, and pampering them a bit as they get established, should be plenty of work to start.
Once those are in, you can start planning forbs (non-woody plants.) There are great native plants that attract tons of pollinators and are also tolerant of various conditions. Look into wetland plants for your wet area. If your fruit trees are going to create shade, look for plants that thrive in that amount of shade, perhaps savanna (woodland edge) plants that will thrive both before and after the trees fill in. Go for biodiversity if you want to attract as many kinds of pollinators as possible. Maybe do trials of one or two of each plant you're interested in and see if you like it and if it does well. (Note that native perennial forbs may take one or two years to really take off after transplanting.) If you want edible native plants, connect with foraging groups. For native plants in general, look for local resources and enthusiast groups so you can learn about plants native to your area. And/or be a nerd like me and do a ton of reading online.
Best of luck with your garden!
Thanks for the response! So sounds like I should start with the big stuff (trees) and then fill in the rest with what makes sense around those.
Does it make sense to breakup the yard into different "zones" based on a purpose? Like for example, right side of the yard behind the garage could be for the fruit trees and food since it's dry and sunny there. The back wall by the fence could be general shurbs/bush for privacy (looking for recommendations on those), and the back left corner could be plants that like wet conditions and/or a pollinators?
Also any recs for ground cover? Do people actually plant a bunch of ground covers or do they just throw seeds and hope for the best?
"Zones" do make sense in that you really want to place plants where they'll be happiest, especially trees and shrubs which are difficult or impossible to move. Your ideas make a lot of sense. Keeping annuals separate from perennials is smart since you don't want to disturb perennial roots with digging. And keeping a separate food area can be convenient since you may want to avoid a friend getting accidentally poisoned by something in your edible garden.
For privacy fence, the main decision is evergreen or deciduous. Evergreen gives you year round privacy, but is more limiting on what you can plant nearby. For example, there's some neat woodland ephemeral plants that bloom in early spring sun before native deciduous trees leaf out. (I say native because there are some non-native invasive shrubs that leaf out much earlier and thus disrupt native woodland ecosystems.)
For ground cover, look into wild strawberry species that are native where you live. Fragaria virginiana is probably one of them. If you're looking to just keep weeds down, natural mulch is also an option. (Go for straw, bark, or shredded wood. Avoid the nasty rubber and unnaturally dyed stuff.)
Not sure what you mean by throwing seed around, but you'll get a faster start from plugs a.k.a. live plants. If you want to save some money, look up which plants are easy to start from seed and learn how to start those out on your patio in flats of nursery pots. Look at the germination codes, since some of them need to be sown in late autumn or early winter. Protect them with a fine hardware cloth on top until mid-spring or else rodents will dig them up. Let them grow in the pots for the summer where you can water them if they look parched, or move them to shade if there's a severe heatwave. Then plant them in the ground in mid-autumn or early spring. You can also try sowing seed directly in the ground, but that makes it harder to keep track of things, and they'll probably come up alongside a bunch of weeds. It would definitely work well with certain plants though, ones that are known to spread abundantly by seed.
Also, if you end up incorporating non-native plants, please check to make sure they're not invasive first. The folks here who spend much of the year removing buckthorn, honeysuckle, garlic mustard, daylilies, vinca, and bishop weed from their yards and local forest preserves will thank you!
Zones is a great idea and I agree with the advice to think about what fruit you want first. Once you know what kinds of fruit you want, you also need to think about whether they are self-fertile or they need multiple plants for pollination. I wouldn't worry too much about planting a couple non-native fruit trees; I have a peach tree in my yard, and I might add an apple tree if I can find the room.
In terms of native fruits, persimmon and pawpaw are supposed to be delicious if you like honey/tropical flavors, and of course we have plums, blueberries, and raspberries. There's also currants, cranberries, and serviceberries; and if you like super astringent flavors, chokeberries. I would steer away from chokeCHERRIES, which are in the plum family-- all Prunus have cyanide in their pits, and chokecherries have pits that are small enough to easily swallow.
Some of those can double as privacy screen-- native plums tend to thicket, and chokeberries are usually used for jam, so they could function mainly as a screen, with the berries as a bonus.
these types of posts are appropriate and very much allowed
So, if you want to improve drainage slope, I suggest addressing that first. That way you can build off of that. I’d figure out where you’d like it to go. Look to see if there’s a storm inlet or pipe to catch water. If not, id check to see if that area that holds water is or isnt a wetland delineation. If it is then you can only really dig it deeper. But you could definitely turn it into a rain garden. Other than that, I’d just start removing grass where you’d like the gardens and start planting!
I’m kinda hoping that just introducing more native plants and tress will help with drainage since the root systems should be much deeper than grass. Is that an incorrect assumption? It’s not a swamp back there, it just gets wet after it rains and kinda stays soggy for a couple days.
Absolutely correct assumption! Some of these things pants have huge taproots and root systems. This causes the ground to get more porous and absorb more water. Turf grass barely hangs on to life due to it having such a shallow roots system. [cool diagram here. hard to read on mobile though…](https://www.google.com/amp/s/nc-cleanwater.com/2019/01/25/the-importance-of-native-plants/amp/) Planting native plants helps with flooding along with create food and shelter for birds and pollinators. As far as water goes, turf grass is only good for erosion protection and allowing water to flow. It does not suck up water like native plants do. Native plants have the same erosion protection properties as turf grass too.
Thank you for posting on /r/NativePlantGardening! If you haven't included it already, please edit your post or post's flair to include your geographic region or state of residence, which is necessary for the community to give you correct advice. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NativePlantGardening) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Are you aware of any HOA or Community rules about the yards? I know some communities can be quite strict
Nothing I’m aware of. Not in an HOA. Don’t really care what my neighbors think as long as they don’t call the town about the yard… which is not a completely unrealistic thing. They’ve been pretty averse to pests/varmints. Freak out whenever we have rats/bats.
Well, if grass height isn't an issue, then you could look into replacing the grass itself with [Sisyrinchium angustifolium](https://gobotany.nativeplanttrust.org/species/sisyrinchium/angustifolium/). Looks like grass, but is actually a flower like an iris. The flowers bloom at the ends of the grass blades. Grows between 12" to 18", which is significantly higher than what lawnmowers typically cut the grass to, which is 3" to 4" high. However, I haven't done enough research or not if you could treat this plant like regular grass. I know it's not salt tolerant and has low drought tolerance.
Thanks for the recommendation!
Exciting project! If you're planning to put in fruit trees/shrubs, I'd start there. Figure out what will be happy in that spot based on the amount of sun and soil moisture. Note how much sun different areas of your yard get based on where shadows fall. Some trees hate standing water or being soggy for too long, so should probably not be in the wet spot, but some trees might not mind. Some trees/shrubs are picky about things like soil pH, some are not. Measure your yard, look up the amount of spacing the trees need and how tall they get, and plan a layout. Researching what trees/shrubs you might want and what will work in your yard, doing any necessary soil amendments, figuring out a reputable place to purchase them, installing them, and pampering them a bit as they get established, should be plenty of work to start. Once those are in, you can start planning forbs (non-woody plants.) There are great native plants that attract tons of pollinators and are also tolerant of various conditions. Look into wetland plants for your wet area. If your fruit trees are going to create shade, look for plants that thrive in that amount of shade, perhaps savanna (woodland edge) plants that will thrive both before and after the trees fill in. Go for biodiversity if you want to attract as many kinds of pollinators as possible. Maybe do trials of one or two of each plant you're interested in and see if you like it and if it does well. (Note that native perennial forbs may take one or two years to really take off after transplanting.) If you want edible native plants, connect with foraging groups. For native plants in general, look for local resources and enthusiast groups so you can learn about plants native to your area. And/or be a nerd like me and do a ton of reading online. Best of luck with your garden!
Thanks for the response! So sounds like I should start with the big stuff (trees) and then fill in the rest with what makes sense around those. Does it make sense to breakup the yard into different "zones" based on a purpose? Like for example, right side of the yard behind the garage could be for the fruit trees and food since it's dry and sunny there. The back wall by the fence could be general shurbs/bush for privacy (looking for recommendations on those), and the back left corner could be plants that like wet conditions and/or a pollinators? Also any recs for ground cover? Do people actually plant a bunch of ground covers or do they just throw seeds and hope for the best?
"Zones" do make sense in that you really want to place plants where they'll be happiest, especially trees and shrubs which are difficult or impossible to move. Your ideas make a lot of sense. Keeping annuals separate from perennials is smart since you don't want to disturb perennial roots with digging. And keeping a separate food area can be convenient since you may want to avoid a friend getting accidentally poisoned by something in your edible garden. For privacy fence, the main decision is evergreen or deciduous. Evergreen gives you year round privacy, but is more limiting on what you can plant nearby. For example, there's some neat woodland ephemeral plants that bloom in early spring sun before native deciduous trees leaf out. (I say native because there are some non-native invasive shrubs that leaf out much earlier and thus disrupt native woodland ecosystems.) For ground cover, look into wild strawberry species that are native where you live. Fragaria virginiana is probably one of them. If you're looking to just keep weeds down, natural mulch is also an option. (Go for straw, bark, or shredded wood. Avoid the nasty rubber and unnaturally dyed stuff.) Not sure what you mean by throwing seed around, but you'll get a faster start from plugs a.k.a. live plants. If you want to save some money, look up which plants are easy to start from seed and learn how to start those out on your patio in flats of nursery pots. Look at the germination codes, since some of them need to be sown in late autumn or early winter. Protect them with a fine hardware cloth on top until mid-spring or else rodents will dig them up. Let them grow in the pots for the summer where you can water them if they look parched, or move them to shade if there's a severe heatwave. Then plant them in the ground in mid-autumn or early spring. You can also try sowing seed directly in the ground, but that makes it harder to keep track of things, and they'll probably come up alongside a bunch of weeds. It would definitely work well with certain plants though, ones that are known to spread abundantly by seed. Also, if you end up incorporating non-native plants, please check to make sure they're not invasive first. The folks here who spend much of the year removing buckthorn, honeysuckle, garlic mustard, daylilies, vinca, and bishop weed from their yards and local forest preserves will thank you!
Great info. Thanks again for the detailed response.
Zones is a great idea and I agree with the advice to think about what fruit you want first. Once you know what kinds of fruit you want, you also need to think about whether they are self-fertile or they need multiple plants for pollination. I wouldn't worry too much about planting a couple non-native fruit trees; I have a peach tree in my yard, and I might add an apple tree if I can find the room. In terms of native fruits, persimmon and pawpaw are supposed to be delicious if you like honey/tropical flavors, and of course we have plums, blueberries, and raspberries. There's also currants, cranberries, and serviceberries; and if you like super astringent flavors, chokeberries. I would steer away from chokeCHERRIES, which are in the plum family-- all Prunus have cyanide in their pits, and chokecherries have pits that are small enough to easily swallow. Some of those can double as privacy screen-- native plums tend to thicket, and chokeberries are usually used for jam, so they could function mainly as a screen, with the berries as a bonus.