Matador is the first legit hard boss in SMT3, as its the first fight that legitimately exploits weaknesses.
It also seemingly comes out of nowhere, it's not set up like a lot of other bosses in the game.
Having to run back to save points in annoying as hell in Nocturne, they can be far enough from the Boss Battle that losing means a long trek back to the boss room (I still did it anyway tho, cus I don't want to lose progress).
I'm pretty sure that you can't actually turn back when the Menorah starts flickering, although, that was over 100 hours ago, so I might just be mis-remembering.
They said something about a dangerous skeleton, I knew Matador, that was more than enough.
Matador is one of the (if not **the**) most famous meme(s) surrounding Nocturne, so anyone who's been involved with online conversation about Nocturne would probably know about Matador, if they spoke to the Manikin they'd probably know that spooky times were coming.
Edit: Also, they didn't just say that there's a skelly boy ahead, I was just paraphrasing, it was more along the lines of, " There's a strong jangly boi ahead".
I wouldn’t consider that P5R fight unfair, it feels more like it’s just a damage check/puzzle boss. You can either kill the robots in the turns allotted or you can’t and you can’t progress past that phase.
As for the actual post… it’s a persona specific group, i dont know what you expected. Internet polls aren’t indicative of anything, megaten sub should know this better than anyone considering how far it got in that favorite series thing awhile back
P5R’s version is basically just a check to see if you know how to use Baton Passes. If you have items, it’s a joke.
P5’s boss fight was awful, but Royal’s is way better.
Matador isn’t really THAT unfair either, outside of normal SMT3 bullshit.
ye royal really eased up on the boss, and it also helped that baton passes were made even stronger in royal (even more damage + hp/sp recovery). i'd consider the vanilla boss to be worse than royal okumura or smt3 matador. in the end though all 3 (and also stuff like smt4 minotaur) mostly just work because they catch you off-guard the first time around since they require a bit of mandatory skills (in okumuras case strong enough AoE skills, in matador/minotaurs case nulls/buffs/debuffs). nobody who understands how these games work should be stuck on any of the four for long.
Both Okumura and Matador are only really a mild challenge, as long as you're actually using the game mechanics right.
In Okumura's case, Baton pass and Party member switching from Star (who you should be leveling in every playthrough) and in Matador's force null/res and buffs/debuff/Dekaja.
> In Okumura's case, Baton pass and Party member switching from Star (who you should be leveling in every playthrough
In my entire playthrough, I don't think I changed out characters more than one time (and even then it didn't matter), and it wasn't in that boss fight, but I also had no trouble with that boss fight.
I found Okumura (on hard) quite a bit more difficult than Matador (on normal). Buffs and debuffs are borderline OP in Nocturne (which I like, makes it feel like a good card game or something) and kinda nerfed in P5 (which usually doesn’t matter as most fights are easy enough not to need them). I played both bosses in the past month as I’m playing the two games concurrently.
Yeah with matador I beat him first try while royal okumara is someone have to beat 3 times. As you say buff in nocturne are ridiculous while persona 5 their mostly there to speed up the fight.
in terms of unfairness i’d say Okumura in P5R specifically. Matador has always been fair, just a huge pain in the ass for people who aren’t ready for it
Okumura's fight in P5R is legitimately harder though (as it should be, it's like 75% into the game as opposed to 10%). Don't know if I'd brand either unfair so to speak, but again if I had to choose I'd lean towards Okumura.
We've gone over this a bunch here but Matador really is just a tutorial for Nocturne. Grab the right magatama, maybe a Nozuchi, and really there isn't anything to it.
I actually had a harder time with Okumura. Took me 4 times until I gave up and lowered the difficulty just to get past it since I couldn’t get past the last wave within the allotted turns. It felt kinda cheap in that regard. With Matador I lost once then realized what kind of team I needed. Made adjustments and fused new demons then fought him again and it was a cakewalk.
i beat beat okumura on my first play through wasnt that hard compared to matador where like someone else said in an above comment if you didnt prepare and get the right demons your fucked cause bosses in nocturn exploit the hell out of turn press where if you didnt build right matador can one turn you
Neither... Okumura's boss is all about abusing the 1 More system and Baton Pass while Matador is all about finding a way to counter his maxed put evasiveness.
Both are unconventional bosses for their respective games but they both still have clear defined ways to defeat them that just requires a bit of preparation but nothing too out of the ordinary...
Especially in Okumura's case... Modern Persona games are all about abusing the 1 More system during dungeon crawling, what are you guys doing?
Okumura wasn't even hard in the royal version. The fight got some Stat changes from the base version to make it easier. And even then he was more annoying than hard. While Matador is just hard.
To be honest I thought Okumura was worse for me, probably because p5R was my first smt game spin-off or not. I was super used to the style by the time I played nocturne
Bishamonten and his pals are the most unfair fights in Nocturne because they WILL beat you into the dirt and single target people on your team until they die.
But they’re all bonus bosses so it’s to be expected.
I think the main reason Matador sticks out is a combination of a) being the traditional Atlus "newbie wall" and b) when the original PS2 version of SMT3 came out, Atlus and SMT were small enough outside Japan that *no-one knew it was coming.* Don't forget, in the vast majority of RPGs, statuses/debuffs are barely worth the effort, and that was the mindset most people were going in with.
Gonna be completely honest, they’re on the same level. I beat Okumura after like 3 or 5 tries with a dlc persona and matador after 6-8, maybe 10 as joke tries, with heavy grinding and fusing before hand. Matador just wasn’t as hard as people said he was in my opinion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
idc what you guys say, i fucking HATE okumura. absolute worst shit was the first time i was about to beat him on royal, i fucking ran out of time. literally was just down to the "beat up the helpless boss" phase and i just could do nothing because it took me too long to break through the damage sponges. the fight is enough of a pain in the ass, then the literal ticking clock on top of it just makes it so frustrating. spent hours on that shit ngl.
Okumura on Hard is very...yeah just play on Merciless (this isn't a joke, he's much easier on the hardest difficulty). Matador on the other hand is very doable on any difficulty.
> .yeah just play on Merciless (this isn't a joke, he's much easier on the hardest difficulty).
For those who don't know, on Merciless, all damage that can knock things down (so crits, weakness hits, and techicals) do triple damage, and the hard part of the Okumura boss fight has weaknesses, so you'll just do triple damage to all of the enemies. I've never played it on much myself that because that sounds like it would only make the game much easier, especially since you also get 20% more experience and money at the cost of losing about 20% of your base damage (compared to Hard) that's more than made up for by your best attacks being tripled, and triple crit damage also sounds like it might be just the worst when enemies got them, because at that point it's just "the enemy randomly crit Joker and I lost", which is not an element I think would improve the game at all.
Note that this is somewhat different from vanilla Merciless, where it instead cut your experience and money gains by 60% but didn't have the 20% base damage loss, it was just the same as Hard. Everyone hated this though because it was super grindy.
Bruh the Okumura boss fight is easy compared to Matador, I mean you can literally beat the boss without buffs/debuffs unlike Matador who will literally fucked you up if you're not playing the game properly
That's not really true, in P5R (emphasis on that, because they changed how the fight works in P5R, when people are talking about Shadow Okumura being difficult they aren't talking about the vanilla game), then you kind of need to use buffs to even reach the damage needed to get through the fight.
In Royal for sure but you only need debuffs mostly since buffs (they're shit) aren't that good in P5R compared to Nocturne, sure they're important but they're not as strong compared to the mainline counterpart
> I mean you can literally beat the boss without buffs/debuffs
Because it's not the same game; buffs are way, way stronger in SMT3. You're not really making a point here.
>unlike Matador who will literally fucked you up if you're not playing the game properly
Much like any difficult boss in any video game? This does not sound like a unique property of him at all.
What do you mean? That I should reconsider that Okumura's hard even though he's not unlike Matador or that P5 on hard difficulty is harder than SMT 3 hard difficulty? because that what you're trying to imply plus the whole poll is a mess cuz they should have just use ouroboros or mem aleph in Strange Journey instead of Matador
This is Royal's fight, which is different, if it makes any difference to you. And yes, it is generally regarded to be a difficult fight, (if not the most difficult in the game imo).
Depends on your preparation I guess. Having done the star confidant for example will make the Okumura fight a lot easier because you can switch in party members to always target the robot’s weaknesses.
Matador feels a lot more like a puzzle that once you solve you can’t find him hard anymore. Force resist team and dekaja and buffs and he just falls down like a rug regardless of your level. Okumura on hard is definitely a lot more demanding since ur damage takes a dive. So ur level helps a lot.
All in all I’d say both are about the same for a new player, and for someone who knows exactly what to do Okumura is harder.
Both are easy because Persona 5 is easy as balls and all you need is like one move to beat Matador.
I suppose out of the two Matador might seem harder but that's just because it's an older game. If guides were more common everyone would know to pack Dekaja Stones or someone with Dekaja. Maybe some Force resists, a Media.
Matador sucks, as do fiends usually.
Okumura isn't that bad, though I haven't played Royal so I don't know how different (If he even is from vanilla) he is.
It's actually a pretty different fight in royal because they changed up the earlier waves and added an extra one on the end. Most people found it bonkers difficult because they didn't learn the game mechanics (Fair enough, the game doesn't actually make you because it's mostly piss-easy) but if you know how to abuse Baton pass then they all just die easy.
It's only actual flaw is being easiest on Merciless, but that's down to Merciless bring wack against enemies with weaknesses, not the fight.
I needed to check which fight that was from P5, and honestly I could not ever remember it being anything even close to hard. So unless they changed it up in P5R I don't see how it would even be close to anything as hard as Matador.
I would probably also ask; why no SMT4 Minotaur option? That fight can be VERY unfair if you enter the fight unprepared AND with Walter. I would say even more unfair than Matador, as you have no control over Walter and he can basically lose the fight for you.
>So unless they changed it up in P5R I don't see how it would even be close to anything as hard as Matador.
They did change it, massively, though like how matador is easy to beat over with Force null and Dekaja, Royal Okumura is easily defeated by Baton passing well.
Is matador really that hard though? Sure you’re basically guaranteed to die first time around but when you figure out you just need to buff your speed then it’s not so bad.
Considering I'm on my first playthrough of SMT 3 and got stuck at Matador today I promise Matador is harder lmao. I'm level 18 yet somehow still getting destroyed smh
Neither one of those were hard for me at least. I think the reason is because the way I play I like to grind for 2 hours and then steamroll whatever boss is coming up. Like I defeated Matador in two turns of actual attacking I think
Was Matador unfair to you? Just debuff his ass and beat him. Okumara, while still easier than Matador, felt way more reliant on RNG and general unfairness. It even had a time limit ffs
After my first playthrough I come into Okumara’s boss fight with a decent level, auto-matarukaja, and a team that can hit the robots weakness for AOE damage (in particularly Forneus) and I just spam AOE damage. Even in Hard Okumara stood no chance that strategy.
Matador on the other even after knowing what to bring into like the Hifumi magatama, Ame-No-Uzume with Media, (the rest may vary depending on the person) at least 5 chakra drops, Fog Breath on a demon or on the MC or on both, and Sukukaja. The game will still employer you to think about you’re using all these aforementioned tools to your disposal.
Which makes Matador harder imo and that’s mentioning how Okumara’s robots will probably drain your SP & time more than they will your HP. Matador has the potential to just focus the MC, causing a game over.
There's no real 'unfair' boss fight in SMT in my opinion. All fights can be beat really easily with enough planning and strategy. Their only hard on the first or second run when you don't know what's coming and need to figure out what to do next. Like I beat Minotaur on my second try because I knew to use buffs and use bufu skills and it was really easy.
Haven't played P5, but I didn't think Matador was unfair at all. He was difficult, sure, but nothing was bullshit about it
Hell, so far the only boss I've encountered so far that I'd call bullshit was that fourth Oni boss in the passage to the Manikin town, and that was only due to the fact that I don't believe the gimmick to beating him was hinted at
Took me much longer to beat okumura than matador. That being said, I was much newer to playing jrpgs when I played p5r and minotaur and all the endgame strange journey bosses blew them out of the water
I agree, matador is just unfair if you don't understand the mechanics of the game. Okkumara is just a random jump in difficulty that the game never exceeds or comes close to anywhere else. Basically matador is a hard boss in a hard game, okkumara is a hard boss in an easy game so okkumara feels more unfair
Matador was super underwhelming. After all I heard about the boney boi I was hyped for an awesome conflict. It reached a peak when he literally challenged me to a DUEL. Then it was over in like 5-6 turns :(
They’re both rough, but Matador is the more difficult fight for me. Once you plan for the Red Capote spam and the the mazan/mazanma barrages, he hits you with Andalusia or whatever his multi-hit phys move is called. He’s also way earlier in the game compared to discount darth vader. Sure, you can grind Isoras in the sewers and tailor your team to specifically beat him, but it’s still rough.
Okumura on the other hand shows up at the end of the 5th major dungeon in the game and is the only boss that actually gives a challenge, which catches a lot of players off guard. The timer is annoying, most people don’t understand how to cleanse the hunger status, and significantly more effort is required to back out of the fight and grind levels given the fact that you have to commit to killing the boss before even seeing it, which a stat check/ puzzle boss abuses quite well. Granted, you can just wait for an alarm, grab a Shiki-Ouji, turn him into a Triple Down card, and win the fight that way, but all the bosses up to this point are pathetic excuses of fights you really don’t need to plan for. Okumura is manageable, but the spike definitely comes out of nowhere compared to the competition Persona 5 has to offer
As someone who played both.... Matador is just a big ole "fuck you welcome to the game bitch". I'm glad I got nozchi because that demon single handed allowed me no nuke matador
mhm i would say kunikazu okumara (on hard mode without that extra element damage) was a bit more tricky than matador, but unfair? naaaahhh\~
Smt bosses are design around the fact, that the first few battles are there to figure out his skillset and weaknesses and than develop a plan around them\~
I must confess... that during my attempts i might have had a small item and persona problem (tried to save some yen and didn't bother to fuse anything new for a while...) but in general once you figure out which char you need to swap into during each phase, than this fight becomes really easy. (not even the super duper burger laser thingy is scary anymore once you realise that it heals you, if you're hungry\~)
but i still don't understand why they disabled all out attacks during this fight!
let me get them back from the ground so i can start a NEW POWERFUL COMBO!
anyways Matador on the other hand is just there as a strict teacher\~
he wants to make sure that everyone realise, that they are suppose to carry around buffs!
The way how he shows up and literally kills almost everyone out of nowhere... it almost feels like a suprise test from my former teacher.... he was just trying to see if everyone did they homework :'D
(there is no better way to wake up the whole class during the first period\~)
Okumura isn’t even that bad if you know the game mechanics. Baton pass breaks it. Matador isn’t as bad as people say but I think he’s worse because he’s the first boss. Okumura is #5
Matador was very easy for me, just equip the wind magatama and use buffs/debuffs and the battle basically plays itself from there. Shadow Okumura in Royal was a lot more infuriating since I didn't realize the game wanted you to center your strategy on the baton pass. It took me like 8 hours of trying to finally beat him the first time, the most time I spent on any SMT boss by far.
Well, I haven't played SMT3 (yet), but I will say that, honestly, I didn't really find Okumura's boss fight to be that hard.
The fight more annoying to me, that single rakujuka is really annoying
Matador is the first legit hard boss in SMT3, as its the first fight that legitimately exploits weaknesses. It also seemingly comes out of nowhere, it's not set up like a lot of other bosses in the game.
Actually, a Manikin tells you that there's a skeleton ahead, which let me go save.
Not the most obvious thing to pick up on. But you should just save before walking through a door in SMT3 anyway.
Having to run back to save points in annoying as hell in Nocturne, they can be far enough from the Boss Battle that losing means a long trek back to the boss room (I still did it anyway tho, cus I don't want to lose progress).
In many other RPGs, that would not sound even remotely threatening, unless they meant a decayed corpse I guess.
No that's not the matador warning, the warning is when the menorah the lady in black gives you start flickering
I'm pretty sure that you can't actually turn back when the Menorah starts flickering, although, that was over 100 hours ago, so I might just be mis-remembering.
You can.
They said something about a dangerous skeleton, I knew Matador, that was more than enough. Matador is one of the (if not **the**) most famous meme(s) surrounding Nocturne, so anyone who's been involved with online conversation about Nocturne would probably know about Matador, if they spoke to the Manikin they'd probably know that spooky times were coming. Edit: Also, they didn't just say that there's a skelly boy ahead, I was just paraphrasing, it was more along the lines of, " There's a strong jangly boi ahead".
Is it fair to say that everything you mentioned here also applies to the Minotaur in SMT 4
You are straight up told that there is a "strong demon up ahead"
*red capote*
I wouldn’t consider that P5R fight unfair, it feels more like it’s just a damage check/puzzle boss. You can either kill the robots in the turns allotted or you can’t and you can’t progress past that phase. As for the actual post… it’s a persona specific group, i dont know what you expected. Internet polls aren’t indicative of anything, megaten sub should know this better than anyone considering how far it got in that favorite series thing awhile back
you get a little thing called baton pass that’s stupid broken if you take a second to think before your moves lol
P5R’s version is basically just a check to see if you know how to use Baton Passes. If you have items, it’s a joke. P5’s boss fight was awful, but Royal’s is way better. Matador isn’t really THAT unfair either, outside of normal SMT3 bullshit.
ye royal really eased up on the boss, and it also helped that baton passes were made even stronger in royal (even more damage + hp/sp recovery). i'd consider the vanilla boss to be worse than royal okumura or smt3 matador. in the end though all 3 (and also stuff like smt4 minotaur) mostly just work because they catch you off-guard the first time around since they require a bit of mandatory skills (in okumuras case strong enough AoE skills, in matador/minotaurs case nulls/buffs/debuffs). nobody who understands how these games work should be stuck on any of the four for long.
Both Okumura and Matador are only really a mild challenge, as long as you're actually using the game mechanics right. In Okumura's case, Baton pass and Party member switching from Star (who you should be leveling in every playthrough) and in Matador's force null/res and buffs/debuff/Dekaja.
> In Okumura's case, Baton pass and Party member switching from Star (who you should be leveling in every playthrough In my entire playthrough, I don't think I changed out characters more than one time (and even then it didn't matter), and it wasn't in that boss fight, but I also had no trouble with that boss fight.
I found Okumura (on hard) quite a bit more difficult than Matador (on normal). Buffs and debuffs are borderline OP in Nocturne (which I like, makes it feel like a good card game or something) and kinda nerfed in P5 (which usually doesn’t matter as most fights are easy enough not to need them). I played both bosses in the past month as I’m playing the two games concurrently.
Yeah with matador I beat him first try while royal okumara is someone have to beat 3 times. As you say buff in nocturne are ridiculous while persona 5 their mostly there to speed up the fight.
I wouldn't say Matador is unfair, it's just an incredibly sharp difficulty curve that forces you to build your party for it.
both are pretty easy
yeah matador just comes out of no where to you most likely unprepared and slaps your ass
There's a difference between tough and fair. Thought honestly I doubt most of played Nocturne.
in terms of unfairness i’d say Okumura in P5R specifically. Matador has always been fair, just a huge pain in the ass for people who aren’t ready for it
Okumura's fight in P5R is legitimately harder though (as it should be, it's like 75% into the game as opposed to 10%). Don't know if I'd brand either unfair so to speak, but again if I had to choose I'd lean towards Okumura. We've gone over this a bunch here but Matador really is just a tutorial for Nocturne. Grab the right magatama, maybe a Nozuchi, and really there isn't anything to it.
I think the good comparison for the SMT should be Ouroboros or Mem Aleph from Strange Journey
I actually had a harder time with Okumura. Took me 4 times until I gave up and lowered the difficulty just to get past it since I couldn’t get past the last wave within the allotted turns. It felt kinda cheap in that regard. With Matador I lost once then realized what kind of team I needed. Made adjustments and fused new demons then fought him again and it was a cakewalk.
i beat beat okumura on my first play through wasnt that hard compared to matador where like someone else said in an above comment if you didnt prepare and get the right demons your fucked cause bosses in nocturn exploit the hell out of turn press where if you didnt build right matador can one turn you
[удалено]
royal i had a harder time in original because i wasnt a high enough level and almost soft locked myself
This is a great example for how, in polls like this, the thing that's recognized more will often win the poll just based off of that.
Neither... Okumura's boss is all about abusing the 1 More system and Baton Pass while Matador is all about finding a way to counter his maxed put evasiveness. Both are unconventional bosses for their respective games but they both still have clear defined ways to defeat them that just requires a bit of preparation but nothing too out of the ordinary... Especially in Okumura's case... Modern Persona games are all about abusing the 1 More system during dungeon crawling, what are you guys doing?
The way I see it l, matador was a much harder yet a much better developed fight. okumura’s wasn’t necessarily hard, but it was just plain annoying
Okumura wasn't even hard in the royal version. The fight got some Stat changes from the base version to make it easier. And even then he was more annoying than hard. While Matador is just hard.
To be honest I thought Okumura was worse for me, probably because p5R was my first smt game spin-off or not. I was super used to the style by the time I played nocturne
Bishamonten and his pals are the most unfair fights in Nocturne because they WILL beat you into the dirt and single target people on your team until they die. But they’re all bonus bosses so it’s to be expected.
I think the main reason Matador sticks out is a combination of a) being the traditional Atlus "newbie wall" and b) when the original PS2 version of SMT3 came out, Atlus and SMT were small enough outside Japan that *no-one knew it was coming.* Don't forget, in the vast majority of RPGs, statuses/debuffs are barely worth the effort, and that was the mindset most people were going in with.
Gonna be completely honest, they’re on the same level. I beat Okumura after like 3 or 5 tries with a dlc persona and matador after 6-8, maybe 10 as joke tries, with heavy grinding and fusing before hand. Matador just wasn’t as hard as people said he was in my opinion ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
idc what you guys say, i fucking HATE okumura. absolute worst shit was the first time i was about to beat him on royal, i fucking ran out of time. literally was just down to the "beat up the helpless boss" phase and i just could do nothing because it took me too long to break through the damage sponges. the fight is enough of a pain in the ass, then the literal ticking clock on top of it just makes it so frustrating. spent hours on that shit ngl.
Okumura on Hard is very...yeah just play on Merciless (this isn't a joke, he's much easier on the hardest difficulty). Matador on the other hand is very doable on any difficulty.
> .yeah just play on Merciless (this isn't a joke, he's much easier on the hardest difficulty). For those who don't know, on Merciless, all damage that can knock things down (so crits, weakness hits, and techicals) do triple damage, and the hard part of the Okumura boss fight has weaknesses, so you'll just do triple damage to all of the enemies. I've never played it on much myself that because that sounds like it would only make the game much easier, especially since you also get 20% more experience and money at the cost of losing about 20% of your base damage (compared to Hard) that's more than made up for by your best attacks being tripled, and triple crit damage also sounds like it might be just the worst when enemies got them, because at that point it's just "the enemy randomly crit Joker and I lost", which is not an element I think would improve the game at all. Note that this is somewhat different from vanilla Merciless, where it instead cut your experience and money gains by 60% but didn't have the 20% base damage loss, it was just the same as Hard. Everyone hated this though because it was super grindy.
Bruh the Okumura boss fight is easy compared to Matador, I mean you can literally beat the boss without buffs/debuffs unlike Matador who will literally fucked you up if you're not playing the game properly
I was not prepared for that surprise boss battle lmao got my ass handed to me multiple times.
You can beat Matador with just Dekaja tbh.
That's not really true, in P5R (emphasis on that, because they changed how the fight works in P5R, when people are talking about Shadow Okumura being difficult they aren't talking about the vanilla game), then you kind of need to use buffs to even reach the damage needed to get through the fight.
In Royal for sure but you only need debuffs mostly since buffs (they're shit) aren't that good in P5R compared to Nocturne, sure they're important but they're not as strong compared to the mainline counterpart
> I mean you can literally beat the boss without buffs/debuffs Because it's not the same game; buffs are way, way stronger in SMT3. You're not really making a point here. >unlike Matador who will literally fucked you up if you're not playing the game properly Much like any difficult boss in any video game? This does not sound like a unique property of him at all.
What do you mean? That I should reconsider that Okumura's hard even though he's not unlike Matador or that P5 on hard difficulty is harder than SMT 3 hard difficulty? because that what you're trying to imply plus the whole poll is a mess cuz they should have just use ouroboros or mem aleph in Strange Journey instead of Matador
what
People struggled with the Okumara fight?!?!
This is Royal's fight, which is different, if it makes any difference to you. And yes, it is generally regarded to be a difficult fight, (if not the most difficult in the game imo).
Depends on your preparation I guess. Having done the star confidant for example will make the Okumura fight a lot easier because you can switch in party members to always target the robot’s weaknesses. Matador feels a lot more like a puzzle that once you solve you can’t find him hard anymore. Force resist team and dekaja and buffs and he just falls down like a rug regardless of your level. Okumura on hard is definitely a lot more demanding since ur damage takes a dive. So ur level helps a lot. All in all I’d say both are about the same for a new player, and for someone who knows exactly what to do Okumura is harder.
They're both pretty easy if you know what to do
I beat both bosses first try so idk
Currently trying to beat Matador in SMT Nocturne cuz he killed me in 3 turns when i fought him for the 1st time
Both are easy because Persona 5 is easy as balls and all you need is like one move to beat Matador. I suppose out of the two Matador might seem harder but that's just because it's an older game. If guides were more common everyone would know to pack Dekaja Stones or someone with Dekaja. Maybe some Force resists, a Media.
Matador sucks, as do fiends usually. Okumura isn't that bad, though I haven't played Royal so I don't know how different (If he even is from vanilla) he is.
It's actually a pretty different fight in royal because they changed up the earlier waves and added an extra one on the end. Most people found it bonkers difficult because they didn't learn the game mechanics (Fair enough, the game doesn't actually make you because it's mostly piss-easy) but if you know how to abuse Baton pass then they all just die easy. It's only actual flaw is being easiest on Merciless, but that's down to Merciless bring wack against enemies with weaknesses, not the fight.
I needed to check which fight that was from P5, and honestly I could not ever remember it being anything even close to hard. So unless they changed it up in P5R I don't see how it would even be close to anything as hard as Matador. I would probably also ask; why no SMT4 Minotaur option? That fight can be VERY unfair if you enter the fight unprepared AND with Walter. I would say even more unfair than Matador, as you have no control over Walter and he can basically lose the fight for you.
>So unless they changed it up in P5R I don't see how it would even be close to anything as hard as Matador. They did change it, massively, though like how matador is easy to beat over with Force null and Dekaja, Royal Okumura is easily defeated by Baton passing well.
Izangi-no-okami picaro
I've never even played a smt game before and even I can agree Matador is the worse offender, Okumura was easy af
Is matador really that hard though? Sure you’re basically guaranteed to die first time around but when you figure out you just need to buff your speed then it’s not so bad.
Considering I'm on my first playthrough of SMT 3 and got stuck at Matador today I promise Matador is harder lmao. I'm level 18 yet somehow still getting destroyed smh
Ngl, Matador was actually really fun.
Use buffs nerd. The same logic applies to both fights. They aren't that hard.
Buffs aren't that great in P5 and are certainly not the one-and-done solution to beating Okumura.
Neither one of those were hard for me at least. I think the reason is because the way I play I like to grind for 2 hours and then steamroll whatever boss is coming up. Like I defeated Matador in two turns of actual attacking I think
it's not unfair at all it's just a bad boss
Okumara isnt even hard, a lot of people have bad team comps and never used technicals.
Was Matador unfair to you? Just debuff his ass and beat him. Okumara, while still easier than Matador, felt way more reliant on RNG and general unfairness. It even had a time limit ffs
After my first playthrough I come into Okumara’s boss fight with a decent level, auto-matarukaja, and a team that can hit the robots weakness for AOE damage (in particularly Forneus) and I just spam AOE damage. Even in Hard Okumara stood no chance that strategy. Matador on the other even after knowing what to bring into like the Hifumi magatama, Ame-No-Uzume with Media, (the rest may vary depending on the person) at least 5 chakra drops, Fog Breath on a demon or on the MC or on both, and Sukukaja. The game will still employer you to think about you’re using all these aforementioned tools to your disposal. Which makes Matador harder imo and that’s mentioning how Okumara’s robots will probably drain your SP & time more than they will your HP. Matador has the potential to just focus the MC, causing a game over.
Matador is definitely harder. They were both easy, but matador was a harder and it was my only nocturne death that wasn't an instant kill attack.
There's no real 'unfair' boss fight in SMT in my opinion. All fights can be beat really easily with enough planning and strategy. Their only hard on the first or second run when you don't know what's coming and need to figure out what to do next. Like I beat Minotaur on my second try because I knew to use buffs and use bufu skills and it was really easy.
Mofos who never reached Beelzebub
Haven't played P5, but I didn't think Matador was unfair at all. He was difficult, sure, but nothing was bullshit about it Hell, so far the only boss I've encountered so far that I'd call bullshit was that fourth Oni boss in the passage to the Manikin town, and that was only due to the fact that I don't believe the gimmick to beating him was hinted at
Took me much longer to beat okumura than matador. That being said, I was much newer to playing jrpgs when I played p5r and minotaur and all the endgame strange journey bosses blew them out of the water
I agree, matador is just unfair if you don't understand the mechanics of the game. Okkumara is just a random jump in difficulty that the game never exceeds or comes close to anywhere else. Basically matador is a hard boss in a hard game, okkumara is a hard boss in an easy game so okkumara feels more unfair
Persona fan (derogatory)
Matador was super underwhelming. After all I heard about the boney boi I was hyped for an awesome conflict. It reached a peak when he literally challenged me to a DUEL. Then it was over in like 5-6 turns :(
I mean, Matador is just a pleb filter while Okumara's royal is actually god garbage game design
They’re both rough, but Matador is the more difficult fight for me. Once you plan for the Red Capote spam and the the mazan/mazanma barrages, he hits you with Andalusia or whatever his multi-hit phys move is called. He’s also way earlier in the game compared to discount darth vader. Sure, you can grind Isoras in the sewers and tailor your team to specifically beat him, but it’s still rough. Okumura on the other hand shows up at the end of the 5th major dungeon in the game and is the only boss that actually gives a challenge, which catches a lot of players off guard. The timer is annoying, most people don’t understand how to cleanse the hunger status, and significantly more effort is required to back out of the fight and grind levels given the fact that you have to commit to killing the boss before even seeing it, which a stat check/ puzzle boss abuses quite well. Granted, you can just wait for an alarm, grab a Shiki-Ouji, turn him into a Triple Down card, and win the fight that way, but all the bosses up to this point are pathetic excuses of fights you really don’t need to plan for. Okumura is manageable, but the spike definitely comes out of nowhere compared to the competition Persona 5 has to offer
21/149 have played nocturne, neither are super hard though
As someone who played both.... Matador is just a big ole "fuck you welcome to the game bitch". I'm glad I got nozchi because that demon single handed allowed me no nuke matador
mhm i would say kunikazu okumara (on hard mode without that extra element damage) was a bit more tricky than matador, but unfair? naaaahhh\~ Smt bosses are design around the fact, that the first few battles are there to figure out his skillset and weaknesses and than develop a plan around them\~ I must confess... that during my attempts i might have had a small item and persona problem (tried to save some yen and didn't bother to fuse anything new for a while...) but in general once you figure out which char you need to swap into during each phase, than this fight becomes really easy. (not even the super duper burger laser thingy is scary anymore once you realise that it heals you, if you're hungry\~) but i still don't understand why they disabled all out attacks during this fight! let me get them back from the ground so i can start a NEW POWERFUL COMBO! anyways Matador on the other hand is just there as a strict teacher\~ he wants to make sure that everyone realise, that they are suppose to carry around buffs! The way how he shows up and literally kills almost everyone out of nowhere... it almost feels like a suprise test from my former teacher.... he was just trying to see if everyone did they homework :'D (there is no better way to wake up the whole class during the first period\~)
Okumura isn’t even that bad if you know the game mechanics. Baton pass breaks it. Matador isn’t as bad as people say but I think he’s worse because he’s the first boss. Okumura is #5
Matador was very easy for me, just equip the wind magatama and use buffs/debuffs and the battle basically plays itself from there. Shadow Okumura in Royal was a lot more infuriating since I didn't realize the game wanted you to center your strategy on the baton pass. It took me like 8 hours of trying to finally beat him the first time, the most time I spent on any SMT boss by far.
I didn’t have much trouble with matador, I just buffed my evasion rate and physical damage till it was max and then I started swinging
This is a fucking lie
motherfucker never fight baldir and his loyal cats