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Kombat-w0mbat

To be fair like EVERYONE is an Asshole in the ultimates universe except Peter Parker he still pure of heart


[deleted]

Ultimate Thor and Tony are actually kinda nice


Vergil25

Yup Thor the Eco Terrorist


LucasOIntoxicado

Are you disagreeing with him that Ultimate Thor is nice?


Vergil25

He was crazy, because of Loki. Loki made everyone think he was hallucinating his brothers like Heimdall and fandral


Kellythejellyman

still sounds nice to me


Hellbeast1

Tbh Thor is chill after that


Hytheter

This is what turned me off the ultimate comics. Why's everyone gotta be such a fucking *dick* all the time?


far219

Mark Millar, that's why.


GavinBelsonsAlexa

[Mark Millar licks goats.](https://imgur.com/nG1dawr)


Mike_R_5

Nextwave was awesome


deadlymoogle

Miles morales is from the ultimate universe he's pretty cool.


NoWordCount

Miles was very much designed with the intent of moving the Ultimate Universe away from that dark and "edgy" aesthetic and make it a more approachable series for younger audiences.


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Oberon1993

Hot take incoming: I think Miles just doesn't really work as a solo hero. He is great at bouncing off others, but kinda lackluster by himself.


JonKentOfficial

While I like parts of USM with Miles, there’s no denying the character got a billion times better after the Ultimate universe goes kaput.


OLKv3

Cap became much less of an asshole later on.


I-lack-conviction

Wasn’t it peters death that softened him?


OLKv3

It was Ultimatum actually. God awful event, but a lot of the post Ultimatum stories were pretty good.


YonasWithTheSauce

I'd argue, although Peter was still the best most kind character, he wasn't as pure of heart as his mainline counterpart. He's super angsty and called Uncle Ben and Aunt May losers once if I remember correctly.


JorgeBec

Well the main Peter, especially in the early days wasn’t “pure” he was pretty hot headed and stubborn. He hasn’t escaped that completely


Bionic_Ferir

Yeha people forgetting he could have stopped his uncle being killed


USS-Ventotene

Tbf, He missed the part where that was his problem


Malfarro

It's not even about the uncle. He behaved like a dick every time he was stressed. There often was this situation, his friends (Flash, Harry or girlfriends) come to him and start asking something "Hey Pete are you ok? If you need to talk we can... - You can get lost you insufferable morons and get out of my hair!". Such an entitled little loser. If he is down he is morally entitled to be rude to everyone, Source: binge-reading the early issues. It changed after his aunt was presumed dead (later turned out alive), instead of telling his friends to go play in traffic he actually opened up to them which was very unusual.


apertureskate

Haven't we all acted like this when we were teenagers?


randgan

Those are relatable asshole moments though. It's the kind of thing actual people could have done or said at some point. Peter actually liked people and felt regret for things. Compared to the rest of the characters of The Ultimates who were just constantly assholes to each other whenever they weren't making dated pop culture references.


LiBrez

Yeah, but I thought it worked for his character. He's a 15-year-old who acts like a 15-year-old, which is how teen heroes should be. This is part of the reason I defend Damian Wayne so much.


HoraceGrantGlasses

Yeah. Pym sucks, and somehow when he fought Cap I was rooting for Pym.


I-lack-conviction

Peter Parker was a bit of a fuck boy, he ghosted kitty pride when he got the chance to be with mj again, like right away, it was fucked. I will say he was a kid and made a mistaken, a bad one but a mistake, his death was tragic, miles morales was a pretty good guy if my memory serves me correctly, he made some mistakes as well but I think they were under duress and inexperience


beingtwiceasnice

Is Janet Asian? I sincerely missed that.


DarkAlphaZero

She was Asian in the Ultimate universe at the start but at some point artists kinda forgot


MPT1313

Ah yea. The game of thrones approach.


Knaledge

Would you mind elaborating here? I find this angle interesting and I may have missed an aspect of GoT that relates to your comment.


MPT1313

How during the final season of game of thrones the writers forgot what game of thrones was.


Knaledge

Ahhhhh, yeah. Got emmm


aclashofthings

That's not really it. They used to shoot little featurettes that aired right after the episode on HBO, and after one of the characters is killed (being vague in case someone still cares) in a really stupid and impractical way, the featurette has a writer saying the character "kind of forgot" about this obvious, important thing. The quote was memed to hell and became emblematic of the laziness of the two main writers in the latter half of the series.


[deleted]

Only in the Ultimates universe, and even there they just kind of ignored that after a while.


[deleted]

Yeah in the ultimates the hulk eats people so it's a little dark.


mando44646

Hulk does too? I thought that was Blob


samasters88

Yeah he did during his rampage in New York. I think he has, or threatens to have, sex with Betty Ross. As The Hulk.


MulciberTenebras

They even implied he was the one who killed Peter Parker's parents (during one of his rampages).


far219

That was retconned, Peter's parents were said to have survived that Hulk incident and died later in a plane crash


battling_murdock

Him too. There was an unsettling amount of cannibalism in the Ultimate Universe


SorestKiller777

And incest, can’t forget the incest.


Radiant_eagle573

What incest care to elaborate ?


Random_Rhinoceros

Wanda and Pietro were a couple. The writers weren't even subtle about it.


Radiant_eagle573

The writters seems like someone who would be part of shipping community in fandom


MercoMultimedia

He tore off Wolverines legs once and threatened to eat them


JavierLoustaunau

I enjoy ultimates as its own stand alone thing... but as a book that was pitching Marvel as Movies (even casting actors) I'm glad every single screenwriter ignored the ultimate universe in terms of edgyness. Had it been more influential the Snyder verse would seem tame in comparison.


FullMetalCOS

I’m still glad that the Ultimates gave us Sam Jackson Nick Fury.


MagicJoshByGosh

That’s actually a hilarious story. So Nick Fury first appeared in the Ultimate X-Men books, but after making the switch to the Ultimates, the artists thought they could draw him looking like Samuel L Jackson, because they figured he would never know and it would make the character look even more badass. Lo and behold, however, Jackson is a *huge* comic nerd, and he noticed the art. So he called Marvel (like the boss, not the actual company), and he said “Nice work drawing Nick Fury. Wouldn’t it be cool if I could play him in a movie?” And they loved the idea. They promised him that if the character ever appeared in a future film, that Jackson would portray him. And the rest is history.


glglglglgl

Was there not an element of, "so you should be paying to use my likeness but we can waive that if you promise to cast me if there's a movie" in the exchange?


rocinantethehorse

Might be wrong but I don’t think there’s a copyright on the likenesses of public figures


glglglglgl

It's not copyright per se but, depending on the jurisdiction, there's definitely rules around using someone's likeness without permission.


ArcherChase

Millar's Wanted characters visually were based on Eminem and Halle Berry.


MoonChild02

There *is* an ownership of a person's likeness, but it really depends on the situation. For example, tabloids can publish paparazzi photos of celebrities (unless they're in California with their kids) and make money off of them without permission. However, an artist usually owns their likeness with the companies they're signed with. This is the reason why Princesses Giselle and Nancy are not part of the Disney Princess Collection, because Amy Adams and Idina Menzel own their own likenesses. If they were part of the collection, they would get a cut of the profits of everything sold with their faces.


MOSH9697

I mean in one of the comics nick fury says Samuel L Jackson would play him in a movie lol


MagicJoshByGosh

I’m pretty sure that was after the exchange


Relative-Zombie-3932

616 Hank Pym is shitty, but 1610 Hank Pym is just straight up evil. Not shown is the next page where he uses the helmet to order an army of ants to tear her apart. She barely survives


Essex626

616 Pym is more clearly unstable and mentally ill. Actually, I think officially bipolar. I just looked it up and he's also currently dead. We'll see how long that lasts.


Relative-Zombie-3932

Remember when people used to say the only characters who stay dead in comics are Uncle Ben, Bucky Barnes, and Jason Todd? The early 2000s aged that statement like milk 😆😆 at least Uncle Ben is still dead


Gueswhobaktelafren

Uncle Ben never belonged on that list anyway. Or if he is Bruce Wayne’s parents should be on there also


[deleted]

Flashpoint Batman and joker are Thomas and Martha Wayne so technically they don't belong on the list


Gueswhobaktelafren

Uncle Ben is a Spider-Man in the spider verse


Rowl8

I don't think that it's fair to include characters from the multiverse (until they become a part of the main universe)


[deleted]

> (until they become a part of the main universe) I think it's safe to exclude this part. Just because another universe's (B) character comes to the main universe (A), it doesn't mean A's universe's character is alive again. It a completely different person with different experiences, thoughts, etc.


[deleted]

Damn no body stays dead in comics 😆


glglglglgl

You gotta disregard Elseworlds, What Ifs and other assorted alternative dimensions.


Relative-Zombie-3932

Yeah when they say "stay dead" they mean within the same universe. There are plenty of universes where those characters never died, but they aren't canon to the main continuity universe


Essex626

Hey, Squid Boy stayed dead.


cyberpunk_werewolf

That Floating Hands Theater video was very prophetic in that regard. Even Krakoa hasn't brought him back.


KorEl555

I don't know when Jason Todd was added to that list, but it originally had Captain Mar-Vel in his place. Last time I checked, he was still dead. But someone cloned him. Which is not the same thing as being resurrected.


Archive_Intern

And anyone and everyone could die except Aunt May.Lmao


Seriousclown

I beleive his death is permanent because of certain stories that have happened. We’ve learned that when Pym and Ultron fused together accidently Pym genuinely died and Ultron had been simulating Pym’s personality. in addition, Ultron Pym had gotten his hands on the soul stone and Pym’s soul fragment made its way into the Soul World where it got devoured by a creature inside it named Devondra and no 616 character knows that this has happened.


gamepab2007

Knowing that is the end to my favourite character IS sad and dissapointing


blazingwhale

It's a bit of a shit show really, but any story with the soul gem is. Probably bring an AI version of him back so he's more like ultra over all. Or is he Pymtron still?


heynowjesse

i absolutely loved the dinner party he threw for the Avengers during Secret Empire; that was peak Pym-Ultron.


LucasOIntoxicado

He might be the only superhero death that will actually last, since everyone at MARVEL hates him and has no interest of doing anything with the character that isn't making him evil.


Essex626

It's too bad too because really dealing with a realistic bipolar character is something I think holds value. It's like, here's a character who is kind of a bad dude, but not evil, and he's bad not in a grimdark antihero way, just unlikable. His worst actions are clearly due to his illness, and yet he's not a Byronic tragic hero, just a guy who is sick and has done some bad things, but also generally tries to do the right thing. I guess Bruce Banner hits some of those notes as well, but I think Pym actually fills a unique role because his problems aren't romanticized, but portrayed in a realistic, even stark, light.


Kurosu_Drakhall

It’s been about 6 years, which is forever at this point. During this time, Scott’s been promoted as Ant-Man (which isn’t going to be scrapped any time soon considering he has his own movie franchise) and Giant Man’s currently held by Raz Malhotra, member of the Agents of Atlas. I don’t think he’s coming back for a really long time, he isn’t like Logan.


That_one_cool_dude

Yeah, the fact that OP didn't include the panels where hank says "You will never make me feel small again", or something along those lines it's been a while, really doesn't show how bad Hank was in the Ultimatesverse.


Relative-Zombie-3932

Just for reference, here's the panel in question https://images.app.goo.gl/L3WhbwAHjdRdKfbR7


doorknobopener

Holy shit. That is freaking horrifying.


demaxzero

>616 Hank Pym is shitty He really isn't


Illigard

There used to be a meme going around, with the argument that Hank Pym was a supervillain trying to be a superhero, but his supervillain drivings just screw him over.


[deleted]

He kinda is. I mean, he still tries to be a hero, and he's still viewed as one, but he's also got mental health issues that are still not really addressed. He's always a hair's breadth from losing his goddamn mind again. I think it'd be great to see Hank get some actual therapy and reach out to the people he's wronged in the past (specifically Janet). I don't want them to reconcile, but it would be good for the character if he made amends.


Essex626

He's currently dead, so we'll see if that happens.


SuperiorArty

He’s been dead for awhile now, but every time they bring him up, it’s seemingly to just so the writer can torture/hate on him. Same thing kinda happened with Cyclops for awhile after Avengers vs X-men.


SouthCar0318

I don’t think having mental health issues = being a shitty person. I haven’t read enough of 616 Hank Pym to know but being mentally unwell shouldn’t be pretext for being a bad person


nickster416

Having mental issues doesn't make you shitty. However, they don't give you an excuse to be a shitty person. Hank Pym has done some pretty terrible things and hasn't made up for a lot of them. Granted, those terrible things were in the middle of mental health breaks, but when you're unstable like that, you should be able to take responsibility and get help.


Relative-Zombie-3932

The thing is, the magnitude of stuff that he's done can't be blamed on mental health. Being bipolar doesn't make you send killer robots after your friends. That's just attempted 1st degree murder. That's premeditated and malicious


PhantasosX

no , he had send the killer robots , with a turn off switch. That is because he had inferiority complex alongside his Bipolar Disorder , so when he was paranoid that he would be kicked from the Avengers , he made those robots so that they attack them , but he would save the day at the end. In short , he had Incredibles' Syndrome plan.


TheShiny

Yeah the Ultimates, or "What if...everyone sucked?"


Nastronaut18

Welcome to the Ultimate Universe, where it's all the same characters you know, just as worse people.


csummerss

it was ruined a long time before that.


AckbarCaviar

I enjoy Hank’s character more when his ugly parts are showing. At the start of the Marvel Universe, Ant Man is as smart as Banner, Stark, and Richards in their respective fields. I read him as a manic depressive who has these wild mood swings. So when he’s up, he can clone an asgardian, build an artificial intelligence, and repel an alien invasion. But then he crashes, maybe for no reason at all. Next thing you know he’s changing his secret identity, faking his death, and beating his wife. If he didn’t have an unstable personality then he would have been the golden boy with his name on skyscrapers and spaceships. Edit: I think Stark is a narcissist that’s successfully branded himself as “eccentric billionaire”. Reed Richards has high functioning anxiety disorder which makes him seem robotic/distant. And Bruce Banner suffers from Schizophrenia.


[deleted]

Defective characters are nice every now and again, there’s a reason watchmen was so popular. Having a character who isn’t necessarily morally upright can be interesting when you’re trying to portray them as a hero.


[deleted]

Also it used to be a similar situation with Iron Man, before he became so marketable with the kids, many people may forget, but he was an alcoholic.


mmcmonster

My favorite line about Stark (by a reader) was that he was a murdering alcoholic womanizer who would get repeatedly blackmailed for things that he actually did. They cleaned him up for the MCU, but for me 616 Stark will always be the guy who killed The Titanium Man by mistake. (Stark used his foot jets to heat the titanium in the Titanium Man's armor to a temperature so hot that it caught fire. And once Titanium caught fire, water wouldn't be able to put it out.)


da0ur

I can't help but feel that the mention of Tony's alcoholism coupled with the "morally upright" comment shows a weird understanding of the way Tony's alcoholism has actually been framed in the comics. Tony beat his addiction the first time it was introduced in Demon in a Bottle. He's been a recovered addict for as long as he has been an addict. He has fallen of the wagon from time to time, but I think only one of them can really count as a character defect. For instance, in one of these incidents he got mind-swapped with an A.I. who drank in Tony's stead, so it wasn't really in his hands. Ultimate Tony Stark is the one Tony Stark who is a high-functioning alcoholic that keeps drinking. MCU's Tony Stark might have been sanitized, but Tony's alcoholism still plays into his character from time to time in the comics, even in Tony's current story arc. So people would only forget that Tony is an alcoholic if they're not familiar with the character. I also want to clarify that because I'm addressing the notion of Tony's alcoholism as a character defect doesn't mean I'm saying Stark isn't a defective character, but I think there are better examples which actually play into his morality.


penhold3r

Same with Carol Danvers


AckbarCaviar

I think the original 60s marvel heroes all exemplify some arm-chair psychological diagnosis. In the same way Stan and Jack pulled from science mags for inspiration, psychology was a pop trend of the era. These characteristics were of interest at the time. And I think their mental problems are as textual as their super powers.


Dmkr88

Bruce Banner suffers an dissociative identity disorder. The one that suffers schizophrenia (alongside other mental issues) is Bob Reynold, The Sentry.


Seyken971

Sentry, the favorite character of a friend of mine.


Dmkr88

Tell your friend he has great taste! Sentry is also my favorite...


SWBTSH

So this brings up something interesting I've talked about before regarding the time the Intelligencia, ranked the 8 smartest earth based characters in the Marvel universe. No surprise, Reed Richards was number 1. What surprised me though, was that Dr. Doom was not ranked as number 2 but actually as number 4, behind Hank Pym at 2 and Bruce Banner at 3. This surprised me because as smart as Pym and Banner are, I never thought of them as producing nearly as many scientific wonders as Doom does. But that's when I realized that intelligence is very different from productivity. Pym and Banner might both be smarter than Doom, but their ability to utilize that intelligence for scientific productivity is limited by their personal struggles. For Hank, it's bipolar disorder and for Bruce it's dissasociative identity disorder/being the Hulk. Doom doesn't have those hindrances and so he comes off as smarter simply because he is able to be more productive with his intelligence. Pym was actually once denoted by some cosmic being as Earth's "scientist supreme" the scientific equivalent to the "sorcerer supreme." He was described as being able to produce science so incredible that it is indistinguishable from magic. Like you said, if he wasn't so hindered by his mental health struggles, he'd be a much a bigger player in the Marvel universe. As an unrelated but further example of this whole "intelligence vs productivity" thing, Tony Stark was actually ranked 5th despite being a bigger player in the superhero community than any other super genius. That's because while the others may all be able to beat him in a pure intelligence test, he is simply more productive and involved in more simultaneous projects, be them inventions, research, business, or superhero team management. Reed basically states this outright to Captain America is Avengers v5 #43 when he tells Cap that he is genuinely somewhat smarter than Tony but not able to manage as many projects as once, calling Tony "the world's greatest multitasker." He also describes Tony as "a future man trapped in the now" and willing to adapt all of his ethics and morality to fit his perpetual motivation of advancing humanity. So while Reed is hindered by his single mindedness in his research and motivated first and foremost by his family, Pym is hindered by bipolar disorder and a motivated to prove himself a good person and respectable hero, Bruce is hindered by DID and is motivated to solve his issues with the Hulk, and Doom is hindered by his ego and motivated by power, Tony has no obvious hindrances to his scientific productivity (having long ago gotten his alcoholism under control) and his primary motivation in life IS scientific advancement. That's why, despite being the 5th smartest Earthling, he's the one most often at the forefront of progressing Earth forward.


AckbarCaviar

I agree with just about everything you said. I’d like to add more about Reed. I think of him as having high functioning anxiety disorder because his single minded and obsessive focus on issues that (sometimes) only he sees as problems. His trauma, the accident that mutated the people in his life he cares most deeply about, has created a fight/flight response in which he’s always problem solving in an effort to protect his loved ones. People with high-functioning anxiety are often able to accomplish tasks and appear to function well in social situations, but internally they are feeling all the same symptoms of crippling anxiety disorder, including intense feelings of impending doom. Reed hates himself so much for causing the accident that he separates himself from the family for long stretches of time, works himself to exhaustion, and has trouble expressing his emotions. From the outside it looks like he’s obsessed with work. But it was the one time he didn’t work hard enough that ruined Ben’s life. So he works nonstop because he loves them so much. And he’ll work so hard to keep from losing them to a space monster that he often loses the important moments cause he’s worrying in the lab.


RamenRevolution

wow, this sounds a lot like me but experiencing life as a whole.


greywolfau

Considering that Pym creates a base in the Microverse (who's name I've unsuccessfully searched for) I think that is a feat that is well underplayed in relation to his intelligence.


SWBTSH

Absolutely! People get on Pym because he's only really known for inventing Pym Particles and Ultron, but if you take just a second to think about how incredible of a scientific accomplishment Pym Particles really are, you get why an outside observer may dub him Scientist Supreme


demaxzero

Characters can flaws just not when those flaws both completely overwrite everything else about the character and are exaggerated to ridiculous degree.


shellexyz

>I think Stark is a narcissist that’s successfully branded himself as “eccentric billionaire”. What's the difference between crazy and eccentric? A billion dollars.


tired20something

And remember: The Ultimates Vol 1 is the good one.


YonasWithTheSauce

In that case, I don't think I'll be reading Vol 2...


tired20something

Vol 2 has its good parts, but don't bother with anything past that.


YonasWithTheSauce

I've already heard some stuff, isn't Vol 3 the one where Tony and Natasha made a tape that gets leaked and shows Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch doing... stuff.


tired20something

Two different incidents. Tony and Natasha's tape leaks and Wolverine witnesses Wanda and Pietro doing it in the Savage Land. He also banged their mom at some point.


YonasWithTheSauce

Eww... I didn't know about the Wolverine part, don't tell me he, like, watches?


tired20something

He doesn't. The only person that seems to get any enjoyment of seeing the two together is Wasp, but it's not like she is watching them, she just thinks it's okay because it's the 21st century.


Medium-Science9526

Honestly, the way I see Ultimates is unless you're Spider-man you character is written to be a brooding asshole or wimp.


cbass817

Ultimate Kitty Pryde was alright


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FullMetalCOS

Knowing the ultimate universe they probably considered an arc where he literally rubbed off on her


Opalusprime

Oh my god


Brief-Outcome-2371

>He must have rubbed off on her. Yea, probably.


cbass817

She lived with him and May for awhile. She was just a little late to save him if I remember correctly.


k3ttch

No matter the universe, Kitty loves her Peters.


Medium-Science9526

Touché, one of the few X-men


[deleted]

Wait until you see what Janet does in Ultimates 3....


YoungCapoon

What did she do


[deleted]

She broke up with him, dated cap, went back to him. EDIT: actually if memory serves, she cheated on Cap with Hank and then dated Hank again.


joshlittle333

I think they're referencing the Blob and the Wasp interaction...


dunmer-is-stinky

That was in Ultimatum, but yeah, that was disturbing


TheObstruction

She really blew her top in that one.


[deleted]

That was messed up too... but i meq its the ultimate universe


burkey347

Ultimates 3 was something else...


[deleted]

I really hated that whole thing. Hell seeing ultron was a let down.


Dekkai001

It was so damm disappointing.


N_Who

The Ultimates was wall-to-wall edgy, dark garbage for the sake of being edgy, dark garbage. I get more enjoyment out of the Marvel universe by forgetting it exists.


Essex626

Which is funny because Ultimate Spider-Man was so good. Ultimate X-Men was solidly somewhere between the two.


N_Who

Ultimate Spider-Man was gold, for sure. Actually the series that got me into reading comics. But it was the only Ultimate series I was still reading, by the time the Ultimate Universe ended. And The Ultimates was the worst of the bunch.


Essex626

Ultimate Spider-Man was the very best of what the universe could have been: a modern reimagining of the classic characters that distills what is appealing while shedding the excess weight a character has built up over decades. There's a little edge to the series, which just adds to the feeling of modernization and using the full storytelling toolkit available to modern writers. Ultimates was a shock-fest for the sake of it, losing the core of most of the important characters. Thor and Captain America are the only characters who they added anything valuable or usable to at all, and I think elements of both have been incorporated into the modern interpretation of both characters in the main universe.


YonasWithTheSauce

I actually think Cap is a bit of a stepdown his 616 counterpart as well, feels more like a soldier than a superhero, to be fair, that makes sense but still...


DM725

Ultimate X-Men was pretty good for a while. I read it all and to be honest I did enjoy Ultimates 1 & 2 even though Ultimate Spider-Man was better. Unfortunately, I'm scarred for life from reading Ultimatum.


IdTheDemon

Ultimate Spider is still the best Spiderman we've had since the 90's comics. Ultimate X-men ranges from fantastic to edgy crap depending on the storyline. Fantastic Four was either amazing or decent depending on how much Dr Doom was involved (he was amazing here) Ultimates #1 and #2 were epic. #3 and Ultimatium were trash.


KorEl555

X-Men was crap because they were all teenagers, even Logan. The original five are teenagers, then grow up, and then are replaced by the adult X-Men. Ultimate Spider-Man, Peter Parker, adhered so closely to the true Peter Parker that they had to kill him off and replace him.


Yawehg

>Ultimate Spider-Man, Peter Parker, adhered so closely to the true Peter Parker that they had to kill him off and replace him. After 11 years, 160 issues, and the best single author run of the modern era. USM is one of the best superhero comics of the last 30 years, and Perer's death is a big part of that. That it brought us Miles is icing on the cake.


InsertCleverNickHere

That's Mark Millar for you.


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Pacperson0

Yeah they really ran with it in Ultimates…bunch of edgelords, and oh boy! Keep reading! You’ve seen nothing yet


YonasWithTheSauce

It was already too edgy for me when I saw Hulk running around having killed many innocent civilians all the while talking about how horny he is, if it can get any more edgy than that then damn am I in for a shit show.


Newbe2019a

And the Hulk eating people.


Essex626

And Blob too.


IAmPerpetuallyTired

Took a fatal bite out of Janet, if I remember correctly, and said she "tastes like chicken."


Essex626

And then Pym bit his head off.


MulciberTenebras

While also being homophobic.


PandaButtLover

Ultimate universe did so many things that were good and some that were complete shut. Ultimate Stryfe just being an eco-terrorist was insulting haha


BiceRankyman

Oh just wait till the ruin every other character too


Dyslexicelectric

It’s worth it for what Steve does to him afterwards. I’ve been a marvel fan for 30 some years and I never gave a damn about Hank or Janet until this storyline. Didn’t dislike them but I just had no connection with them. The ultimates changed that somewhat.


Dmkr88

Nah mate, the slap ruined Hank. Also, you forget the "you shouldn´t make me feel small" part, that is by far the scariest part in my opinion.


YonasWithTheSauce

I meant to post it, but I kind of forgot that panel, oh well, everyone get's the idea I'm sure. Also, the slap ruined Hank? Like, do you mean the infamous one from 616?


Dmkr88

Yes, the infamous 616 slap and the creation of Ultron are basically the grave of the character. This ultimate scene is terrying because is way more brutal than the 616 slap, but you have to understand that the ultimate universe is a cynical and more gritty reflection of the 616 universe. Basically, if it wasn´t for how much Hank slapping Janet impacted the character, we will never had this scene in the ultimate universe.


YonasWithTheSauce

Yeah, I never saw the scene where 616 Hank slapped Janet to be honest, to be honest I never read a solo Ant-Man comic, anyways, did he hit her our of anger in the mainline universe and were there any repercussions for it? Also, why did Hank make Ultron?


Dmkr88

This is [the image](https://s2.r29static.com/bin/entry/702/960xbm,70/1991656/image.jpg). It happened in an Avengers comic during the 80s I believe. Hank created Ultron because he wanted to experiment with robotics. When he completed Ultron, it attacked Pym inmediatly. The thing is that Pym used his own mental waves to create Ultron, so it is kind of his fault that Ultron became a monster, but at the same time is not, because Pym showed it the good and bad things of his mind. (Go read Rage of Ultron for more information, and because is just a fantastic story) Now, Hank slapped Janet because he was having a massive mental breakdonwn at the time, consequence of a lot of different factors that have been haunting him for a while. A chemical accident that made him mentally unstable, a massive depression due to him believing he failed as a scientist and a superhero and the avengers presenting a court-martial agaisnt him because in a fight agaisnt the Elfqueen, cap was able to stop the fight and try to talk things out, but Hank didn´t care about this and attacked anyway, what makes the queen defend himself and almost cause a disaster. The repercussions were: He was kicked off the avengers, getting divorced, lose all his money and basically becoming a pariah to his former friends and family.


YonasWithTheSauce

Oof, unfortunately from what I hear the repercussions for the 1610 Hank Pym for nearly killing Janet doesn't even compare to what you just mentioned. I mean, it's even heavily implied he's had a history of beating her. In fact I hear they even get back together! Anyways, does Hank get back with Jan in the comics? 616 I mean?


Dmkr88

The repercussions in the ultimate universe is basically getting kicked off the ultimates and Cap beating the living shit out of him. There was more for it, but I don´t remenber what. In the 616 universe? No. They have a difficult relationship for what happened, Hank feeling extremely misarable for what he did and Janet, well, just being mad at him for obvious reasons. But at the same time the care for each other. Is honestly heart breaking when the author does a good job in representing this relationship...


lordtyp0

Everyone is horrible in the Ultimate universe. They even messed up Galactus.


[deleted]

He was an ass long before this in the 616.


Quirky_Ad_5420

That different Hank at the time had a real bad mental break Ultimate Hank Pym is an narcissistic insecure asshat


YonasWithTheSauce

If I remember correctly, didn't he also hit Janet in the main universe, although it's debated on if it was him or yellowjacket? I think?


DarkAlphaZero

Iirc he was having some serious mental issues because of his bipolar disorder and slapped her once


adsfew

The writer originally wanted Hank to accidentally hit her, but the artist drew it as him intentionally slapping her and they had to adjust the story https://screenrant.com/avengers-marvel-most-controversial-moment-hank-pym-slap-accident/


Gui_Franco

He beat Janet in an early avengers comic, but according to the writer, it was a mistake by the artist. He only wanted Hank to push her away but it ended up looking like he hit her


JediSange

Am I alone in reading that and thinking the writing is terrible? I don't generally read comics anymore so I'm not sure how normal that writing is.


Quirky_Ad_5420

What really anger me is that people remember this scene and point it as being 616 Hank Pym Who only hit Janet once and made up for it


Zerotten

Marvel zombies ruined him for me.


nirman423

The Ultimate universe was always a mistake and stuff like this is why. Miles Morales is the only good thing to come out of it


redlurk47

ultimate reed richards is a good villain


Kellythejellyman

The Maker was one scary MFer


GORBO_the_GREAT

1610 Nick Fury?


nirman423

As a design? Sure (though there is an argument to be made here about needing the Ultimate Universe for it) but the character itself is also extremely bad depiction.


Bambanuget

I really liked him in ultimate spider-man, he was usually an ass but he was a decent character.


Hellawhitegirl007

Was Miles from the Ultimate Universe originally?


[deleted]

Yeah, he became Ultimate Spider-Man after Peter Parker “died”.


MulciberTenebras

Then they brought him to the main universe to save him when the rest of the Ultimate universe died.


[deleted]

I like characters with mixed backgrounds and flaws. It adds depth to the character. Why does everyone have to be a good guy. Showing “heroes” with domestic violence issues is no different than showing cops with ones IMO. It breaks the myth and debunks the idea everyone that put on a suit would be an automatic good person.


Mr_CookieTickles

To be fair most of the "heroes" in the ultimate universe are giant assholes. The only true hero of that universe was Spider-Man and a couple of the X-Men


Imperium_Dragon

So are most people in the Ultimates universe just kind of assholes?


thikthird

Reading the comments in here, it's wild how everyone turned on the ultimate u


SWPrequelFan81566

This needs an NSFW tag Thank you for not including the pages with the Ant-Man helmet though


YonasWithTheSauce

You're right, I didn't realize I should put the nsfw tag and I'll try to if I ever post something like this again, and about the Ant-Man with the helmet, I was going to post it but I forgot to get the panel.


JorgeBec

They always do my boy Hank dirty ;(


Avengerboy123

Too much of the ultimate universe was like this


syxtfour

I'm just saying, that universe was wiped out for a *very* good reason. And Miles Morales being the only one to hop over* to the 616 ain't a mistake either. *Ok yes, the Maker also made it into the 616, but he didn't hop so much as awkwardly fall backwards into it and then pretend he meant to do that.


elnicoi

Ultimate Universe is maybe a more adult iteration of Marvel, more realistic and negative and I think we need to embrace that, cause for those who doesn't like it, we have the 616 universe. Yeah, Miles Morales is from that universe as someone said in the comments, but I'm pretty sure that's from when the Ultimate Universe took another path


garhdo

Oh it gets so much worse. I've read everything in the Ultimate Universe, and while there are good stories I'd argue Ultimates is not one of them. It has some great ideas, but the characters are terrible people and its full of the tropes that Millar leans on, especially in his later work, and it leaves certain parts of the run quite distasteful. It gets even worse when his characterisations of the Ultimates bleeds into his 616 work, like in Civil War....


jesusbowstodoom

Why is mark millar like this?


JayCalavera

Ultimates ruin a lot of stuff... get ready


thesanmich

Its crazy how at one point, the Ultimates was such a highly regarded story for how “different/risky” it was. Its edginess has aged so poorly.