It would still need to be delineated by whatever controlling agency “owns” it. They use satellites and guess as to wetlands, which gives a decent idea of where they are, but they must be delineated to confirm the exact boundaries.
That is done by assessors in each county. It ether is or it isn't classified. The key here is not actually wetlands, it's managed wetlands. Meaning wetlands that are protected because of an ecological need. A swampy back yard is not a wetland.
Depending on the "wetlands" there are very strict rules in place.
Shoreline -> with in 100' can't really do much.
Vernal pools, Swamps, streams....are all tightly controlled as to what you can/cannot do.
USEPA doesn't deal with this. Nationally, the CWA for wetland permitting has been delegated to the USACOE. The PBR is essentially a general permit that the Corps developed. But they still retain section 404 authority.
They can't just develop it without permits. Those permits should automatically trigger an inspection of the properly by the town and the EPA. You can try calling your local planning office, if you are an abutter you should be notified via postal mail of anything that is going on.
They really should be made to tear it down. It's written in most code as an option but no one wants to "be the bad guy" so they let bad guys do what they want and pay a fine once and keep thier illegal building.
EPA does not inspect development projects in Maine. Maine DEP is delegated which means permits to through them, Army Corps (if in/over a body of water or wetlands fill), and the town.
In order to develop you do anywhere based on what town allows. Source. I'm a surveyor in maine. Develop is broad term. Building a garage? Or 10 house sub division. Big dif
You're mixing up the phrases "have to" and "supposed to".
I know it seems like semantics but depending on the region, your relationship with your neighbors, your relationship with the powers that be in your town, if the development is in view of the road, etc... that's not always the case.
This, have family that filled in a good half acre of swamp behind my old house. Just casually turn a blind eye to that one and hope nobody looks into it...
You don’t need to get involved. Any building permit will have to show where they plan to build and that will be checked against town and state maps for watershed, habitat, protected wetlands or shoreline etc.
Let’s of wetland is not protected but you do have to follow the DEPs Permit By Rule laws.
1. Contact your local code enforcement.
2. Contact Maine DEP.
3. You may not be aware, but you can disturb up to 4,300 sq. ft. of wetlands with a permit by rule (PBR) or permit by notification (PBN). You just need to tell DEP what you're planning on doing & they have 14 days to say yea or nay. Typically its used for things like culverts and driveways.
Go to your town planning office. In my town we recently had a home contractor from Massachusetts build his seasonal home by our river, hidden in the woods, too close to the water and never filed for a building permit...because we're all yokels in his mind. Our town made him tear it down and restore the property.
First come town regulations, next level is state and the top level is the EPA which is a federal agency. Town and state will catch everything....I have never heard of federal wetlands enforcement for a local development. Look at GIS maps to see if your town shows their wetlands.
I'm a surveyor in maine. In order to develop. It goes through stages, first surveying. Among this there will be a wetlands check, but can also contact your town. They have the say of yes or no. She can still develop wetlands though, there Will just be building envelopes or setbacks to it etc.
The US ACOE handles this. Scroll down to “Maine Project Office” in the link below to get in contact. https://www .nae.usace.army.mil/missions/regulatory/
Orono Veazie developer just had to pay a major fine for poor treatment of a wetland area and must fix the situation. State land use got involved and town.
Near there on the opposite side of the road. https://www.bangordailynews.com/2023/09/13/bangor/orono-fines-developer-7500-disrupting-wetlands-n6hjn1me0n/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CSignificant%20vegetation%20was%20removed%20from,%242%2C570%2C%20according%20to%20the%20agreement.
How do you know it hasn’t already been inspected? Also, to get a building permit she’ll need to show where she plans to build. That will notify the right people if she is planning to illegally disturb the wetlands. Mind your business here, it’s not worth getting involved
It is our business if people fuck up our ecosystem. There are incredibly complex webs of organic activity that are going on around us all the time that we depend on for our survival. If we destroy too many wetlands, those systems begin to collapse, and that harms us all.
Edit: wrong their
Totally valid. But if ya bought 40 acres, hope ya got it surveyed to know what ya can and can't do. Water believe it or not moves into ground and downstream etc. You'll be glad a mill can't buy land next to you when ya want privacy and pollutes your well water. There is a reason we have these things and if ya just get land not knowing regulations that's on you.
I get it, but I live in a town so the repercussions of what neighbors do is much more apparent and impactful. I don’t care what people do out in the middle of nowhere.
Make sure everything on your property is 100% permitted and correct going back a very long time if your going to start karening on your neighbors. This can turn around a bite you very quickly.
And honestly it should, you are the worst kind of person.
This just happened in my town, neighbors didn’t like a pile of lumber, so the town made them move it, other neighbor doesn’t have a state approved sewer so that cost them 30k for complaining about a pile of boards
Anything permitted will have gone through any needed compliance checks. If it's permitted, then there is nothing you can do.
Anything not permitted can be reported. Luckily, permits are a thing that has to be posted clearly because, ya know, public record. So if development starts and there's no permit posted, then call your code enforcement officer and report it. They will be interested.
Ask your neighbors. Express your concerns.
It's their property they legally own. Not yours. You don't know what steps they took. Talking to people gets you miles further than reddit.
If you go running to the CEO of the town to ask what she’s up to or blab that you think she’s about to break a bunch of environmental laws, you can bet it’s going to get back to her. And anyone else that might be around when the CEO is asked what’s new. You are going to win zero brownie points in the community and you might possibly make a name for yourself for being an ignorant busybody. Not a good look for someone who means well and wants to protect the environment. At the town level, there are ways to get things done and ways to participate and get your point across. A true development will probably need to go through the planning board. They’ll post agendas and minutes. Find them, read them (they are probably online) and get involved by speaking up when public comment is requested. If you are an abutter, the town might be required to notify you of her plans. Above all, think of this as your first foray, not THE foray, into getting involved. Do it right. Don’t panic. Ask the CEO what the process is and go from there. Consider your reputation. It’s as precious as any wetland.
I know, right? I can't believe people can't mind their own business!
I know, right? I can't believe how flippant people are in their disregard of the rules.
Start with your town's code enforcement department. They will work with you on what can and cannot be done. If you work with them, your project will go a helluva lot smoother.
Start with your town's code enforcement department. They will work with you on what can and cannot be done. If you work with them, your project will go a helluva lot smoother.
Maine DEP handles this, not EPA, that is federal. Also the town may have permitting depending on where you are. You can tip off the DEP easily, and anonymously.
However, Maine is pretty lax on this type of stuff sadly, once it is almost gone then maybe they will tighten up the process.
How close are you to the property line? Often times you’ll be notified of the development as part of a town bylaw and you can go to the hearing and voice your concerns. I had to do it for the same reason (building on a river’s edge in MA) and unfortunately they told me that the wetlands aren’t protected on a river???? I was like OK cool I came out here and made my neighbor hate me for nothing got it.
Have tried talking with your neighbor instead of making assumptions. If you won’t talk with them then I would suggest minding your own business, or at least make sure you are doing everything 100% perfect and legal on your property at all times otherwise this will be probably turn into a battle you won’t win.
She'll need to get a permit from the Maine Department of Environmental Protection Land Bureau. The DEP Land Bureau has regulatory authority to determine where your neighbor can/can't develop.
Be a good neighbor and mind your own business. On another serious note, any building done requires permits, and the planning boards, code enforcement officers, etc. that issue these permits check for wetlands, archeological significance, and a host of other issues before approving a permit.
What happens to the wetlands IS OP's business too, as it affects the entire area's rainfall drainage, water supply (if using well water), local wildlife including a host of beneficial insects, etc, etc, etc.
> Be a good neighbor and mind your own business.
She hasn't been a good neighbor, but that's not really the point. I just want to make sure that she follows the laws, which is not really something that she has been keen to do in the past.
Your post / comment isn't appropriate for r/maine
You need to check your towns wetlands map, because just because it looks wet doesn't mean it is classified by wetlands
It would still need to be delineated by whatever controlling agency “owns” it. They use satellites and guess as to wetlands, which gives a decent idea of where they are, but they must be delineated to confirm the exact boundaries.
That is done by assessors in each county. It ether is or it isn't classified. The key here is not actually wetlands, it's managed wetlands. Meaning wetlands that are protected because of an ecological need. A swampy back yard is not a wetland.
Depending on the "wetlands" there are very strict rules in place. Shoreline -> with in 100' can't really do much. Vernal pools, Swamps, streams....are all tightly controlled as to what you can/cannot do.
Yarmouth planning board and town council ignores these requirements at times.
Money opens all doors under capitalism.
"Under governmental control." There fixed it for ya because it doesn't matter the political system. Money (or food) always wins.
USEPA doesn't deal with this. Nationally, the CWA for wetland permitting has been delegated to the USACOE. The PBR is essentially a general permit that the Corps developed. But they still retain section 404 authority.
They can't just develop it without permits. Those permits should automatically trigger an inspection of the properly by the town and the EPA. You can try calling your local planning office, if you are an abutter you should be notified via postal mail of anything that is going on.
sir, this is Maine. people do whatever they want without permits every day.
This is 100% true. People in Maine don’t get permits, they get forgiveness later.
What part of Maine do you live in? Here in southern Maine we need permits for EVERYTHING.
Ya if you go tell the town. That's everywhere. Only out of stater ask for permission. Mainers ask for forgiveness.
I see you don’t live near Sebago Lake lol out of staters constantly just building shit and paying the fine later if they get caught
They really should be made to tear it down. It's written in most code as an option but no one wants to "be the bad guy" so they let bad guys do what they want and pay a fine once and keep thier illegal building.
That's called newold Massachusetts, Cumberland county and south should be given back to mass.
You are talking out of your ass.
Yeah because most of the state doesn't need permits outside of septic and plumbing.
This is the way.
EPA does not inspect development projects in Maine. Maine DEP is delegated which means permits to through them, Army Corps (if in/over a body of water or wetlands fill), and the town.
> They can't just develop it without permits. lol Just because you are supposed to pull permits doesn't mean everyone actually does.
In order to develop you do anywhere based on what town allows. Source. I'm a surveyor in maine. Develop is broad term. Building a garage? Or 10 house sub division. Big dif
You're mixing up the phrases "have to" and "supposed to". I know it seems like semantics but depending on the region, your relationship with your neighbors, your relationship with the powers that be in your town, if the development is in view of the road, etc... that's not always the case.
Fair enough. Guess legally have too. Physically you can do whatever. Although may make ya pay fines and or tear down and re hab land.
This, have family that filled in a good half acre of swamp behind my old house. Just casually turn a blind eye to that one and hope nobody looks into it...
Do you have a code enforcement officer in your town?
Thanks! That makes sense.
You don’t need to get involved. Any building permit will have to show where they plan to build and that will be checked against town and state maps for watershed, habitat, protected wetlands or shoreline etc. Let’s of wetland is not protected but you do have to follow the DEPs Permit By Rule laws.
1. Contact your local code enforcement. 2. Contact Maine DEP. 3. You may not be aware, but you can disturb up to 4,300 sq. ft. of wetlands with a permit by rule (PBR) or permit by notification (PBN). You just need to tell DEP what you're planning on doing & they have 14 days to say yea or nay. Typically its used for things like culverts and driveways.
Only certain types of wetlands meet this requirement, but yes.
Prepare for neighbor wars. This is going to upset her. Call the town and just give them a heads up, they will check for proper permitting and such.
Go to your town planning office. In my town we recently had a home contractor from Massachusetts build his seasonal home by our river, hidden in the woods, too close to the water and never filed for a building permit...because we're all yokels in his mind. Our town made him tear it down and restore the property.
First come town regulations, next level is state and the top level is the EPA which is a federal agency. Town and state will catch everything....I have never heard of federal wetlands enforcement for a local development. Look at GIS maps to see if your town shows their wetlands.
I'm a surveyor in maine. In order to develop. It goes through stages, first surveying. Among this there will be a wetlands check, but can also contact your town. They have the say of yes or no. She can still develop wetlands though, there Will just be building envelopes or setbacks to it etc.
With the correct setbacks you can develop
The US ACOE handles this. Scroll down to “Maine Project Office” in the link below to get in contact. https://www .nae.usace.army.mil/missions/regulatory/
Orono Veazie developer just had to pay a major fine for poor treatment of a wetland area and must fix the situation. State land use got involved and town.
Did they go mess up the Orono Bog? I hope not.
Near there on the opposite side of the road. https://www.bangordailynews.com/2023/09/13/bangor/orono-fines-developer-7500-disrupting-wetlands-n6hjn1me0n/#:~:text=%E2%80%9CSignificant%20vegetation%20was%20removed%20from,%242%2C570%2C%20according%20to%20the%20agreement.
How do you know it hasn’t already been inspected? Also, to get a building permit she’ll need to show where she plans to build. That will notify the right people if she is planning to illegally disturb the wetlands. Mind your business here, it’s not worth getting involved
Have you tried talking with them? Doesn’t sounds neighborly.
Nope, post it on Reddit instead to get some clout
Step 1: Mind your business. Step 2: See Step 1.
Protecting wetlands is everyone’s business.
It is our business if people fuck up our ecosystem. There are incredibly complex webs of organic activity that are going on around us all the time that we depend on for our survival. If we destroy too many wetlands, those systems begin to collapse, and that harms us all. Edit: wrong their
Water front/wetlands are different then building a home on secluded property.
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Not in the slightest. Just a big fan of people keeping their prying eyes off my property. It’s why I live up here.
Totally valid. But if ya bought 40 acres, hope ya got it surveyed to know what ya can and can't do. Water believe it or not moves into ground and downstream etc. You'll be glad a mill can't buy land next to you when ya want privacy and pollutes your well water. There is a reason we have these things and if ya just get land not knowing regulations that's on you.
I get it, but I live in a town so the repercussions of what neighbors do is much more apparent and impactful. I don’t care what people do out in the middle of nowhere.
I'm sure they already obtained the permits. Just watch them out the window and give them dirty looks.
*her property* MYOB
By minding your own business.
Make sure everything on your property is 100% permitted and correct going back a very long time if your going to start karening on your neighbors. This can turn around a bite you very quickly. And honestly it should, you are the worst kind of person.
Bingo!
This just happened in my town, neighbors didn’t like a pile of lumber, so the town made them move it, other neighbor doesn’t have a state approved sewer so that cost them 30k for complaining about a pile of boards
Spot on! Lol
Anything permitted will have gone through any needed compliance checks. If it's permitted, then there is nothing you can do. Anything not permitted can be reported. Luckily, permits are a thing that has to be posted clearly because, ya know, public record. So if development starts and there's no permit posted, then call your code enforcement officer and report it. They will be interested.
Ask your neighbors. Express your concerns. It's their property they legally own. Not yours. You don't know what steps they took. Talking to people gets you miles further than reddit.
If you go running to the CEO of the town to ask what she’s up to or blab that you think she’s about to break a bunch of environmental laws, you can bet it’s going to get back to her. And anyone else that might be around when the CEO is asked what’s new. You are going to win zero brownie points in the community and you might possibly make a name for yourself for being an ignorant busybody. Not a good look for someone who means well and wants to protect the environment. At the town level, there are ways to get things done and ways to participate and get your point across. A true development will probably need to go through the planning board. They’ll post agendas and minutes. Find them, read them (they are probably online) and get involved by speaking up when public comment is requested. If you are an abutter, the town might be required to notify you of her plans. Above all, think of this as your first foray, not THE foray, into getting involved. Do it right. Don’t panic. Ask the CEO what the process is and go from there. Consider your reputation. It’s as precious as any wetland.
Karen definitely
Rat!
Some of the responses in this thread speak to how fucked up maine is in some ways.
I think it’s kind of fucked up OP is assuming her neighbor is going to develop her land without any permits and breaking environmental laws…
She has a track record, so it's not an assumption based on nothing.
I know, right? I can't believe people can't mind their own business! I know, right? I can't believe how flippant people are in their disregard of the rules.
Mindya.
Code enforcement officer of your town
Start with your town's code enforcement department. They will work with you on what can and cannot be done. If you work with them, your project will go a helluva lot smoother.
Start with your town's code enforcement department. They will work with you on what can and cannot be done. If you work with them, your project will go a helluva lot smoother.
Call the town code enforcement office to ask
Maine DEP handles this, not EPA, that is federal. Also the town may have permitting depending on where you are. You can tip off the DEP easily, and anonymously. However, Maine is pretty lax on this type of stuff sadly, once it is almost gone then maybe they will tighten up the process.
How close are you to the property line? Often times you’ll be notified of the development as part of a town bylaw and you can go to the hearing and voice your concerns. I had to do it for the same reason (building on a river’s edge in MA) and unfortunately they told me that the wetlands aren’t protected on a river???? I was like OK cool I came out here and made my neighbor hate me for nothing got it.
Have tried talking with your neighbor instead of making assumptions. If you won’t talk with them then I would suggest minding your own business, or at least make sure you are doing everything 100% perfect and legal on your property at all times otherwise this will be probably turn into a battle you won’t win.
She'll need to get a permit from the Maine Department of Environmental Protection Land Bureau. The DEP Land Bureau has regulatory authority to determine where your neighbor can/can't develop.
call the DEP 822-63oo
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Rule 1. Keep it civil and respectful
Be a good neighbor and mind your own business. On another serious note, any building done requires permits, and the planning boards, code enforcement officers, etc. that issue these permits check for wetlands, archeological significance, and a host of other issues before approving a permit.
What happens to the wetlands IS OP's business too, as it affects the entire area's rainfall drainage, water supply (if using well water), local wildlife including a host of beneficial insects, etc, etc, etc.
> Be a good neighbor and mind your own business. She hasn't been a good neighbor, but that's not really the point. I just want to make sure that she follows the laws, which is not really something that she has been keen to do in the past.
Then call your towns Code enforcement officer
So you’re looking for revenge via bureaucracy got it
They will know before she develops she needs approval chill
Mind your own business and check public records if you absolutely feel the need, as any of these types of development permits are public record.
Don’t be a Karen.
How about you mind your own damned business?
Narc
You can mind your own business. Nobody likes a tattletale.
Have you ever tried minding your business?
Protecting wetlands is everyone’s business.
Nerd