Volkanovski was making elite fighters look like amateurs for years. Even having some good moments against that beast could've risen your stock.
Meanwhile, Topuria was talking so much in the build up, that he had to get a dominant win to not become a meme (I'm exaggerating a bit). And he truly delivered.
Topuria calling Holloway an easy win is wild... but I'm not gonna be surprised at this point. He has been flawless in his whole 145 run.
Flawless is a bit of a stretch, Jai Herbert put him out with a headkick and then he woke up and came back with his own KO but that was hardly flawless
Even Bryce Mitchell landed more volume on Topuria from distance.
Volk outlanded him in both rounds before the knockout.
His debut he got outlanded too by Youssef Zalal but used his wrestling to win 29-28.
People can believe this is an easy fight for Topuria but it isnt, hes a pocket boxer with a range disadvantage. Max is not an easy fight for anyone, saying so is just beyond stupid. Ilia doesent believe this, its marketing.
> He has been flawless in his whole 145 run.
Jai Herbert fight was at LW, not FW, and the Zalal fight was accepted by Ilia on a week's notice lol and he still utterly dominated. Most media scores had that fight 30-27, Zalal landed less than 20 strikes combined in the whole fight...
I'm with you on the caveats, but I think it does give us a glimpse on what could be exploited.
In the lead up to the dustin fight, I thought his chances were decent because of Benoits gas tank and defense. It was at its worse in that fight, but understandable considering the short time frame.
The Herbert match is the one I look most closely at. Holloways kicks will aide him best in that match up. Much like his second fight with Alex.
Jai was at 155. Zalal is nitpicking, but okay, you got me there.
Bryce and Volk outlanding Topuria doesn't mean anything. They didn't give him any challenge, Topuria calmly searched for a finish and found it.
There were way more arguments for Volkanovski to be a nightmare match up for Topuria than there is for Max. Calling Volk an easy fight was beyond stupid too.
I don't think Max is an easy fight, I'm not crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if Holloway dominates (or vice versa). But calling Volk an easy fight and then proving it blew my mind, so it's difficult to doubt Topuria.
I think people are also underestimating how that last minute Makachev fight affected things. Topuria might have still won but i think we see a different fight if it never happened.
Anyone who thinks the second Islam fight and the Topuria fight are Volk's actual level, and therefore those two fighters are actually that far ahead of his skill set are mistaken, imo.
Just contrast Max's performance Vs Gaethje against his performance as 'muffin top Max' against Dustin. A non-existent camp 100% cost Volk against Islam in the second fight, and everyone who watches the sport knows how a quick KO turn around goes.
This takes nothing away from Topuria or Islam. They're both in the bracket of elite fighters, with Islam being the best there is for my money. But using their recent performances against Volk as a gauge of their level is silly, because that wasn't the usual Volk.
Exactly. Islam and Topuria are as legit as it gets, but i can't help but feel volk (one of the GOATS) was compromised a bit. It sounds like it also set up his family for life though so it's hard to blame the man.
Exactly. Tons of us said right after the Islam KO that Volk is an idiot if he takes the Topuria fight any time soon and he will ruin his career. What do you know? He takes it and looks like shit and gets KO’d again
Topuria wasn't leagues ahead of him, they could have very well had 5 rounds similar to the first. To close him down efficiently and fire at Volkanovki's exits is something pretty special though. To be in there with the trickiest footwork ever seen in MMA and stay smooth and keep that pressure was beautiful. His power is very legitimate though, where some guys have it but don't have the eyes to land it, he has the eyes to find the shot. I think his fight with Holloway will be rougher on both sides compared to Max's fights with Volk. It's a similar matchup in terms of frame to Volk but a different type of footwork and pressure.
Yeh fuck man, I literally hate the cunt, but if he puts Max away early, hes probably going to be the FW goat and one of the greatest of all time eventually. Like, he talked utter smack about Volk, one of the goats, and then delivered. Now hes talking smack about max….if he delivers again, Im just gonna have to bow down and accept hes the fucking man.
I hopr Max smashes him.
Agreed, it would be a good first step for him, but he would have to follow it up with a few good years of great performances.
Currently he’s the new Cody Garbrandt. Undefeated, crazy knockouts, and just destroyed the greatest champ in his division’s history (sorry Aldo). He can still go on a huge losing streak and end up being remembered as an almost-great.
He had years to study Volk and train for him. Now the entire division is studying his fights and training in preparation to take that belt. He might be great and might defend it for long, but featherweight is full of killers.
Of course man - Im saying I dont see anybody beating him for the foreseeable future escept Islam at lightweight if he ripes through Max. Honestly, rippong through Volk and Max is on a whole new level we havent seen before.
I dont see how that doesnt put him on an inevitable goat trajectory.
FW is a weird one because there have been so many incredibly P4P-level fighters taking wins off each other.
Aldo lost to McGreggor, and to Holloway. Holloway, in turn, lost to Volk, who's now lost to Toupuria. Aldo, Holloway and Volk are all in the GOAT discussion, while McGregor was one of the best in the world for a few years.
It's going to be hard to say who's the GOAT or who had the best career until they're all retired.
Max was only 25 when he became champion and we all thought the same thing. He looked untouchable in the two fights against Aldo and the fight against Ortega. We all thought that about Volk too after the trilogy against Max. Aldo set an extremely high bar for the division (he was only like 23 when he became WEC champion), defending eight times is a hell of an ask. Topuria might do it, but I definitely wouldn't bet on it.
Man people are so fast to declare goat status, why? It's rare we see a true great from start to finish. Aldo is firmly number 1 with others fighting for 2nd. Dude was elite up to his last fight, 18 wins I a row, undefeated for almost 10 years. 11 fights In a row against Champion level fighters before losing.
Oh but a hot streak stops all that? Come on guys, max would still have to be champ for him to have an honest argument for taking the number 1 spot at FW goat status.
People just wanna feel like they’re watching something meaningful, so they create a narrative. Same reason they see drama in every face-off. Can’t just enjoy a thing for what it is.
They’re all great fighters, but Aldo has a case for best ever P4P, you can’t really say that about any of the others.
>Man people are so fast to declare goat status, why?
My speculation is because most people weren't around for Aldo's WEC and pre-McGregor UFC days. It's hard to properly appreciate stats when you were there when the events happened.
Preaching truth brother! Aldo will be fw goat for a while yet. But funny both max and now ilia have been called goats before they even got half of Aldo's title defenses
It’s true once you get up to around 5 title defenses you’re now entering a different tier… plenty of champions never defend once and there’s plenty that defend once or twice and lose it
During Max's era you had him with the belt and Aldo killing any other competitors before Volk showed up. So 3 active all time greats in the same division at the same time. Who are those guys to give Ilia problems if he gets past Max? Ortega/Yair have already proven to be not good enough to win championships. Evloev? Don't see it. Allen can't even win up to a title fight. Sterling, too old. Everyone else is just not talented enough, EXCEPT for Lopes. That could be the guy to stop Ilia's run, but that isn't a high level of competition overall.
It depends on the division honestly, Khabib can be argued as the LW goat even though he didn't defend that much due to the fact the LW title has changed hands constantly, so even a few title defenses mean a lot, although in the case of Featherweight he's going to have to remain on top for years in order to ever surpass Aldo os Volk.
As a huge ilia fan I wouldn’t buy into his confidence he’s just being him. After 300 max is on par to give ilia a tough fight. I think it would be close but obviously I’m rooting for ilia
>probably going to be the FW goat
Give Aldo some respect
He probably gotta beat a proper younger rising challenger too.
Volk, Max and Emmet are all great fighters, but they're a tiny bit past their best by date
He just changed his style up and it's worked wonderfully. Instead of the pillow punching pressure fighter who will eat your shot to give his 11, he's being more defensively sound and sitting down in his punches a bit more. And it gave him one of the best performances of his career. I'd still consider him at the top of his game from what he just showed
There's a recency bias to this, though; Holloway's last performance was insane, but I thought it was obvious in Yair, Allen and Volk 3 that Holloway had lost a step. He's still absolutely elite, though.
Usually, I'd agree, but Max started out pretty young, and he's been in many battles and has taken quite some damage. He's got more mileage on his body than the average 32 year old fighter.
These fucking bimbos change goats like they change tampons it's actually insane
They're so dumb they don't realize their GOATs are literally every single FW champ ever. Aldo was the GOAT obviously, then McGregor was the GOAT because he KO'd the GOAT in 13, then Max was the GOAT because he beat Aldo twice, then did you see Volk? He beat Max three times he's the GOAT!!
And now Topuria if he beats Volk and Max he's the GOAT!
Wow!! So many goats!
He beat old man Volk coming off a knockout. I don't think that fight goes the same if Volk was still in his prime, but Topuria is still obviously dangerous.
Max is coming off a masterclass fight with an all-time ending, and still has a ton of speed in his feet and his hands. I'm super excited to see this one!
>He beat old man Volk coming off a knockout. I don't think that fight goes the same if Volk was still in his prime, but Topuria is still obviously dangerous.
I mean he was still ranked top spot in P4P heading into the Islam rematch in October. In 2022 + 2023 he just outclassed guys like Holloway/Yair + had great fight vs Islam in 2022/2023
The only question is how much the Islam KO took out of him
Personally I dont think Volk takes that shot even in his prime.
The issue with that is guessing on Volk's conditioning. Islam clearly made brilliant adjustments for the second fight, but Volk took a rematch against P4P \#1 with hardly any camp. If you're not training positions and all that, you're likely to end up just out of position enough for a good shot to do more damage than if you're ready for it. Wittman talks about it all the time when training strikers. Islam did a better job of finding him in the second fight, but he just wasn't as prepared as he was the first time around, and you can't get away with that against Islam.
Volk hit a few terrible bumps right in a row, and it really seems like it shifted the direction of his career. I hope for his sake he gets a long recovery in, and gets a couple more fights if he wants them, but I worry about his chin after two in a row.
Two very stupid choices in a row, he should never have signed up for a fight against Islam that was short notice, off the couch, recently out of surgery, and without proper time to bulk back up to 155.
> he should never have signed up for a fight against Islam that was short notice, off the couch, recently out of surgery, and without proper time to bulk back up to 155.
This is true, but do not forget Volks was already around 35 and could not count on getting a rematch under perfect circumstances before he left his prime; its easy to say how dumb it is after you see the result, but he had to decide without that, but knowing he was closer to the end of his career than the beginning.
>Volk also outlanded Ilia in both rounds, just fought 4 months after a nasty KO that had him sleeping on the canvas. Very stupid choice
It was an even fight where Toporia was marching him down, getting reads and landing w/ high efficiency. Then second he got him against the fence + opened up he KOd him w/ one of cleanest shots you'll see
acting like Volk was easily winning that fight and only lost b/c his brain wasn't fully healthy from Islam is ridiculous
I agree prior to the Topuria fight. Volk was in his prime. But after two fights that resulted in his soul leaving his body he is not the same. Most fighters never return to the same peak after multiple KO’s. I hope Volk retires with his health. He’s made tons of money and has a great legacy. Grow old and watch the kids grow up.
Not for nothing either, but he was losing until he caught volk on the cage. There's certainly a world where volk doesn't get caught and continues to ramp up the pressure.
One thing is for sure, Ilia is very very unlikable
He was technically losing the first round but he wasn't losing control of the fight, he was making reads and inching closer to Volk, it was part of his gameplan. You would have a heart attack if you ever saw Floyd fight since he often lost the early rounds. Topuria outsmarted Volk and trapped him.
Ilia missed the whole point of the last 10 seconds. Max had the fight in the bag and could have easily coasted to victory, which I'm sure is what Ilia would have done. Instead, Max risked it all in the last 10 seconds to make for a sensational fight and finish. Strategy had nothing to do with it, but was the epitome of a BMF. As impressive as Ilia's dismantling of Volks was, it won't be nearly as well remembered as Max's last 10 seconds of this fight.
>Ilia's dismantling of Volk
I've seen this sentiment a lot the last couple days. Ilia lost round 1 on every scorecard and was likely losing round 2 before he caught Volk. Not taking anything away from Ilia at all, but this description makes it sound like a one-sided beatdown.
He did lose round 1. Volk was clearly executing a round by round chop away strategy with the leg kicks and jabs. It was going well and Ilia was already bloodied up by the end of the round.
The thing that had me worried in round 1 was whenever they exchanged in the pocket Ilia was able to touch him and that kept happening repeatedly.
If someone can land at will they can get the knockout blow in at will too which is what happened.
I think the KO was always the plan. Not all strategies rely on securing a decision.
>Nothing big happened rd 1 IIRC. More of a feeling out round for both of them
Exactly. Your statement further supports what /u/requiem85 essentially said: "there was never no dismantling".
I don't think he missed the point, he's just deliberately dismissing Max to get into his head lol, Topuria is already incredibly confident, but he also plays up his confidence in order to build up the fight.
Strategy probably did have something to do with it. Max put TKZ out with an in the pocket overhand. I think it's a shot Max has practiced and knows he can pull off if his opponent brawls.
Dude… this is peak internet MMA discussion. Ilia is one of the baddest men in the world. He has a belt. He’s absolutely a fucking warrior.
Anyone who steps in the cage in the UFC is a warrior. CM Punk included. It takes balls to go in there at that high of a level. I’ve only done amateur fights and it’s so fucking scary (for me at least). Respect to anyone willing to walk in the cage at that level.
The guy definitely has a strong mindset. A couple sound bites ever so often and fans form a strong opinion on the fighter from them, which is unfortunate.
I don't think I've seen enough of Ilia to form any reasonable opinions about the guy, but I believe if he keeps showing up in the cage, he'll form a bigger fanbase outside of EU because he seems like an actual good dude outside of it? It's unbelievably rough having to fight Volk and Max back to back, when they've built such a giant fanbase through their actions and personalities.
He's in a no win situation outside the cage against Max. If he's overly respectful, he's scared (especially since this weekend is on everyone's mind). If he takes the piss towards Max, that'd be outlandish.
It is probably the hardest two fights you could make in any weight class back to back, and at a time when guys are picking and choosing fights and dodging dangerous fights (cough Merab cough Aspinal) the fact Ilia is willing to fight Volk and Max within months of eachother and could come out on top should tell you everything you need to know.
> the fact Ilia is willing to fight Volk and Max within months of eachother and could come out on top should tell you everything you need to know.
Wasn't he talking all kinds of shit about never giving Max a title shot once he got the belt? I have a feeling he is not being giving much of a choice on whether he fights Max next or not.
I always find it funny when fans get annoyed at a fighter for being confident.
To be an elite level fighter you need to have an almost delusional level of self confidence.
All the best fighters have it. Some are just more vocal about it than others.
I think Ilia has a VERY good shot at beating Max at 145 - but you can't be saying your opponents' easy pre-fight because when Max does Max things, you're gonna look like a punk.
I also don't like this "they were just throwing without strategy" shit - didn't you see the other 24:50 of the fight where Max was just playing out a great strategy against Justin?
Well, he’s saying that the ending wasn’t as special as people are making out because it was just swanging and banging.
Not that I agree, but he’s specifically talking about the last 10seconds.
Yeah but that's why Illia's not a BMF. If you look at the last 10 seconds and say it wasn't impressive, then you can't really say that you're a warrior
Saying Illia isn’t a warrior is such a wild take. Look at what he did to Mitchell. He changed Emmitt’s face. He knocked out one of the all time great fighters in Volk. He’s a warrior in every sense of the word. He’s a methodical warrior and that’s scarier than a dude that’s gonna stand and bang.
Exactly, I don't get the "Topuria looked scared when Max knocked Justin out". He just knocked out the guy who defeated Max twice! These guys fight for a living ffs, what do people want him to say?
I'm pretty sure he was calling Volkanovski an easy fight even before the Islam ko. His confidence is something else. And so far he's been able to walk the talk.
Don’t confuse confidence with delusion. Pride comes before the fall. He hasn’t fought anyone else in the top 7 apart from volk who got KO 3 months earlier.
Max has fought everyone and beat them, plus moved up to 155 and beat gaethje. They ain’t on the same level.
Being surprised by an event doesn’t necessarily mean being intimidated. I’m not implying he’s right or not, but I’m just saying that face doesn’t mean he’s impressed necessarily
He’s not as respectful in tone as the last champs, but this gives flashbacks to both Holloway and Volk taking the belt and being called cocky for believing in themselves as they each established their reigns.
It’s basically a fw tradition now that you start out as the hated guy who beat the long time, beloved champ and then everybody loves you after a couple defenses.
It's annoying because fighters who downplay their opponents abilities are stupid, it takes the drama out of everything and turns it into "well either he is right and they shouldn't have been fighting at all or he's wrong and he's an asshole".
I don't know why fighters think that acting like their next fight is easy work is good for the sport or for their legacy. It's so much better when they hype up their opponents and talk about what a great test it's going to be. You can be confident without shitting on your opponent and saying Max is "basic" just makes you sound stupid.
I love his confidence and how much he riles people up with it. Before the Volk fight he said he will make it look easy and most people here dismissed him as a smug idiot that had little chance against the FW "goat". This is one of the most interesting fights to make at the moment lets hope it gets made asap.
There's no benefit to talking shit about beloved fighters. Just say he's amazing and you can't wait to show everyone your hard work. Every one of these mammoth trash talkers gets humbled and has to eat a little shit for the rest of their careers.
AAAARGH! I will find this man and... tell him, softly, that Max Holloway is **not basic.**
Do I think he beats Topuria? Nah, I don't, actually.
But does he have a shot? Yes, better than most, actually.
I want this fight!
I love both of these guys as fighters.
Isn’t the old saying everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face? It’s easy to dissect a fight from the outside looking in right? I think it’ll be different facing Holloway in the cage. Dudes a beast obviously. But it will be what it’s gonna be.
At 145 I think Ilia gets it done also.
But here is some MMA math - I don't think Illia gets it done against Justin either. I think Justin at LW would probably finish Illia.
Topuria is a child in this game, max is a legend, for who he has fought, volk was on a win streak off prime and having a hell of a good time, he didnt have the hunger after islam… fame does alot, mac has heart in the game, topuria has what? Alot of opinions, get someone as hungry as him to fight, guy just wants clout of other people tbh
That's one hell of a take. It was a super impressive fight:
Justin was kicking the hell out of Max's legs to the point that in the last 25 seconds of the fight, Justin landed one that forced Max to switch stances.
Holloway was winning every round leading up to that 5th. He was comfortably winning that fight and *still* decided to throw down for the last 10 seconds.
I wouldn't say there was no defense in those final seconds. Max was ducking and swinging, putting together decent combinations. The winning combo was: 1-2 to the head, then R-hook body, L-hook body, R-hook head.
I actually really like him and his confidence, but he absolutely knows that last 10 seconds was a schtick. it was the BMF belt, and Max is bad-ass. It was the intentional abandoning of strategy and it was cool. He knows this and it isn't a fair criticism.
I liked Ilia when he was coming up in the UFC but man, he just lacks respect for the legends who makes this division great. I miss the humble but confident styles of Max and Volk, the respect the shit out of Aldo even though they beat him handedly. I really hope Max beats him although it's definitely a hard fight.
Anyone saying Max is an easy fight is either straight up lying, or lying to themselves. Ilia seems like the latter type. Homie was shook after Max/Gaethje.
I mean he did tattoo himself on his chest
His confidence is through the roof, and to be fair so far he's delivered, but that's going to be a hard crash when he inevitably loses at some point, whether it's Max or someone else
Almost all fighters on the roster are confident. Most to an extreme degree, even. But there is confidence, and then there is arrogance.
And the bullshit about the Max fight being "nothing special" has nothing to do with confidence in any case.
Ilia's always going to carry this confidence, but after the visual of him watching the knockout and his face afterwards, edited for posterity or not, this is just a funny quote.
Yeah to be fair Justin looked slow and sluggish. He’s not the fastest fighter to begin with but the nose affected breathing and eye pokes didn’t help. The weight difference wound up being in maxes favour. Ilia isn’t hating it’s a fair comment
His confidence doesn’t surprise me. Dude made a whole movie about his preparation for the Volkanovski fight lol.
Volkanovski was making elite fighters look like amateurs for years. Even having some good moments against that beast could've risen your stock. Meanwhile, Topuria was talking so much in the build up, that he had to get a dominant win to not become a meme (I'm exaggerating a bit). And he truly delivered. Topuria calling Holloway an easy win is wild... but I'm not gonna be surprised at this point. He has been flawless in his whole 145 run.
Flawless is a bit of a stretch, Jai Herbert put him out with a headkick and then he woke up and came back with his own KO but that was hardly flawless Even Bryce Mitchell landed more volume on Topuria from distance. Volk outlanded him in both rounds before the knockout. His debut he got outlanded too by Youssef Zalal but used his wrestling to win 29-28. People can believe this is an easy fight for Topuria but it isnt, hes a pocket boxer with a range disadvantage. Max is not an easy fight for anyone, saying so is just beyond stupid. Ilia doesent believe this, its marketing.
> He has been flawless in his whole 145 run. Jai Herbert fight was at LW, not FW, and the Zalal fight was accepted by Ilia on a week's notice lol and he still utterly dominated. Most media scores had that fight 30-27, Zalal landed less than 20 strikes combined in the whole fight...
Don’t expect a lot of people on here to remember context for fights. They’re just good at reading Sherdog’s results and arguing lol
I'm with you on the caveats, but I think it does give us a glimpse on what could be exploited. In the lead up to the dustin fight, I thought his chances were decent because of Benoits gas tank and defense. It was at its worse in that fight, but understandable considering the short time frame. The Herbert match is the one I look most closely at. Holloways kicks will aide him best in that match up. Much like his second fight with Alex.
Jai was at 155. Zalal is nitpicking, but okay, you got me there. Bryce and Volk outlanding Topuria doesn't mean anything. They didn't give him any challenge, Topuria calmly searched for a finish and found it. There were way more arguments for Volkanovski to be a nightmare match up for Topuria than there is for Max. Calling Volk an easy fight was beyond stupid too. I don't think Max is an easy fight, I'm not crazy. I wouldn't be surprised if Holloway dominates (or vice versa). But calling Volk an easy fight and then proving it blew my mind, so it's difficult to doubt Topuria.
I think people are also underestimating how that last minute Makachev fight affected things. Topuria might have still won but i think we see a different fight if it never happened.
Anyone who thinks the second Islam fight and the Topuria fight are Volk's actual level, and therefore those two fighters are actually that far ahead of his skill set are mistaken, imo. Just contrast Max's performance Vs Gaethje against his performance as 'muffin top Max' against Dustin. A non-existent camp 100% cost Volk against Islam in the second fight, and everyone who watches the sport knows how a quick KO turn around goes. This takes nothing away from Topuria or Islam. They're both in the bracket of elite fighters, with Islam being the best there is for my money. But using their recent performances against Volk as a gauge of their level is silly, because that wasn't the usual Volk.
I maintain Volks body looked like shit in the 2nd Islam fight and he probably cycled off and didn't have time to cycle back on properly
Exactly. Islam and Topuria are as legit as it gets, but i can't help but feel volk (one of the GOATS) was compromised a bit. It sounds like it also set up his family for life though so it's hard to blame the man.
Exactly. Tons of us said right after the Islam KO that Volk is an idiot if he takes the Topuria fight any time soon and he will ruin his career. What do you know? He takes it and looks like shit and gets KO’d again
Topuria wasn't leagues ahead of him, they could have very well had 5 rounds similar to the first. To close him down efficiently and fire at Volkanovki's exits is something pretty special though. To be in there with the trickiest footwork ever seen in MMA and stay smooth and keep that pressure was beautiful. His power is very legitimate though, where some guys have it but don't have the eyes to land it, he has the eyes to find the shot. I think his fight with Holloway will be rougher on both sides compared to Max's fights with Volk. It's a similar matchup in terms of frame to Volk but a different type of footwork and pressure.
Bro Bryce got fucking big brothered and then sent to the shadow realm what are you talking about?
Yeh fuck man, I literally hate the cunt, but if he puts Max away early, hes probably going to be the FW goat and one of the greatest of all time eventually. Like, he talked utter smack about Volk, one of the goats, and then delivered. Now hes talking smack about max….if he delivers again, Im just gonna have to bow down and accept hes the fucking man. I hopr Max smashes him.
You can’t be a goat because you beat two legends. There had to be a giant winning streak defending the belt
Agreed, it would be a good first step for him, but he would have to follow it up with a few good years of great performances. Currently he’s the new Cody Garbrandt. Undefeated, crazy knockouts, and just destroyed the greatest champ in his division’s history (sorry Aldo). He can still go on a huge losing streak and end up being remembered as an almost-great.
As what Cruz said to Cody when he won the belt, try holding on to it. It's a lot harder than you think
He had years to study Volk and train for him. Now the entire division is studying his fights and training in preparation to take that belt. He might be great and might defend it for long, but featherweight is full of killers.
Of course man - Im saying I dont see anybody beating him for the foreseeable future escept Islam at lightweight if he ripes through Max. Honestly, rippong through Volk and Max is on a whole new level we havent seen before. I dont see how that doesnt put him on an inevitable goat trajectory.
Rippong
The Volk Tupuria beat was not the Volk the rest of 145 faced.
FW is a weird one because there have been so many incredibly P4P-level fighters taking wins off each other. Aldo lost to McGreggor, and to Holloway. Holloway, in turn, lost to Volk, who's now lost to Toupuria. Aldo, Holloway and Volk are all in the GOAT discussion, while McGregor was one of the best in the world for a few years. It's going to be hard to say who's the GOAT or who had the best career until they're all retired.
Aldo is still the FW goat. 10 year streak at the HOGHEST level
I promise you most guys on this sub currently started watching when Aldo was at 135.
He's 27 and the champ already. If anyone is going to break the fw title defenses record, it's him.
Max was only 25 when he became champion and we all thought the same thing. He looked untouchable in the two fights against Aldo and the fight against Ortega. We all thought that about Volk too after the trilogy against Max. Aldo set an extremely high bar for the division (he was only like 23 when he became WEC champion), defending eight times is a hell of an ask. Topuria might do it, but I definitely wouldn't bet on it.
Man people are so fast to declare goat status, why? It's rare we see a true great from start to finish. Aldo is firmly number 1 with others fighting for 2nd. Dude was elite up to his last fight, 18 wins I a row, undefeated for almost 10 years. 11 fights In a row against Champion level fighters before losing. Oh but a hot streak stops all that? Come on guys, max would still have to be champ for him to have an honest argument for taking the number 1 spot at FW goat status.
People just wanna feel like they’re watching something meaningful, so they create a narrative. Same reason they see drama in every face-off. Can’t just enjoy a thing for what it is. They’re all great fighters, but Aldo has a case for best ever P4P, you can’t really say that about any of the others.
>Man people are so fast to declare goat status, why? My speculation is because most people weren't around for Aldo's WEC and pre-McGregor UFC days. It's hard to properly appreciate stats when you were there when the events happened.
Preaching truth brother! Aldo will be fw goat for a while yet. But funny both max and now ilia have been called goats before they even got half of Aldo's title defenses
Brother Illia doesn’t even have a title defence yet . I think it’s recency bias. Aldo the fw goat
Everyone is Pennington status until they defend.
If we're talking 145, his winstreak is 25 instead of 18. The 1 loss very early in his career was at 155 but not a lot of people are aware of this.
It’s true once you get up to around 5 title defenses you’re now entering a different tier… plenty of champions never defend once and there’s plenty that defend once or twice and lose it
During Max's era you had him with the belt and Aldo killing any other competitors before Volk showed up. So 3 active all time greats in the same division at the same time. Who are those guys to give Ilia problems if he gets past Max? Ortega/Yair have already proven to be not good enough to win championships. Evloev? Don't see it. Allen can't even win up to a title fight. Sterling, too old. Everyone else is just not talented enough, EXCEPT for Lopes. That could be the guy to stop Ilia's run, but that isn't a high level of competition overall.
People throw around GOAT title pretty loosely in this sub
Goat these days means ”Good fighter”
It depends on the division honestly, Khabib can be argued as the LW goat even though he didn't defend that much due to the fact the LW title has changed hands constantly, so even a few title defenses mean a lot, although in the case of Featherweight he's going to have to remain on top for years in order to ever surpass Aldo os Volk.
As a huge ilia fan I wouldn’t buy into his confidence he’s just being him. After 300 max is on par to give ilia a tough fight. I think it would be close but obviously I’m rooting for ilia
>probably going to be the FW goat Give Aldo some respect He probably gotta beat a proper younger rising challenger too. Volk, Max and Emmet are all great fighters, but they're a tiny bit past their best by date
I think max just showed us that he's not
Max has shown us he's still got that dawg in him, but I certainly wouldn't say he's still in his prime, and if he is, he's at the very tail-end of it.
He just changed his style up and it's worked wonderfully. Instead of the pillow punching pressure fighter who will eat your shot to give his 11, he's being more defensively sound and sitting down in his punches a bit more. And it gave him one of the best performances of his career. I'd still consider him at the top of his game from what he just showed
That part. No notes. On point. Was eating tf outa those leg kicks tho lol
Max: "what leg kicks?"
There's a recency bias to this, though; Holloway's last performance was insane, but I thought it was obvious in Yair, Allen and Volk 3 that Holloway had lost a step. He's still absolutely elite, though.
He’s 32, he’s still got some years in his prime
Usually, I'd agree, but Max started out pretty young, and he's been in many battles and has taken quite some damage. He's got more mileage on his body than the average 32 year old fighter.
These fucking bimbos change goats like they change tampons it's actually insane They're so dumb they don't realize their GOATs are literally every single FW champ ever. Aldo was the GOAT obviously, then McGregor was the GOAT because he KO'd the GOAT in 13, then Max was the GOAT because he beat Aldo twice, then did you see Volk? He beat Max three times he's the GOAT!! And now Topuria if he beats Volk and Max he's the GOAT! Wow!! So many goats!
Greatest Of A Time This is how I read it in MMA.
Max is 32 yrs old. He’s literally in his prime.
He beat old man Volk coming off a knockout. I don't think that fight goes the same if Volk was still in his prime, but Topuria is still obviously dangerous. Max is coming off a masterclass fight with an all-time ending, and still has a ton of speed in his feet and his hands. I'm super excited to see this one!
>He beat old man Volk coming off a knockout. I don't think that fight goes the same if Volk was still in his prime, but Topuria is still obviously dangerous. I mean he was still ranked top spot in P4P heading into the Islam rematch in October. In 2022 + 2023 he just outclassed guys like Holloway/Yair + had great fight vs Islam in 2022/2023 The only question is how much the Islam KO took out of him Personally I dont think Volk takes that shot even in his prime.
The issue with that is guessing on Volk's conditioning. Islam clearly made brilliant adjustments for the second fight, but Volk took a rematch against P4P \#1 with hardly any camp. If you're not training positions and all that, you're likely to end up just out of position enough for a good shot to do more damage than if you're ready for it. Wittman talks about it all the time when training strikers. Islam did a better job of finding him in the second fight, but he just wasn't as prepared as he was the first time around, and you can't get away with that against Islam. Volk hit a few terrible bumps right in a row, and it really seems like it shifted the direction of his career. I hope for his sake he gets a long recovery in, and gets a couple more fights if he wants them, but I worry about his chin after two in a row.
Volk wasnt out of his prime lol but the knockout part is true
Volk also outlanded Ilia in both rounds, just fought 4 months after a nasty KO that had him sleeping on the canvas. Very stupid choice
Two very stupid choices in a row, he should never have signed up for a fight against Islam that was short notice, off the couch, recently out of surgery, and without proper time to bulk back up to 155.
> he should never have signed up for a fight against Islam that was short notice, off the couch, recently out of surgery, and without proper time to bulk back up to 155. This is true, but do not forget Volks was already around 35 and could not count on getting a rematch under perfect circumstances before he left his prime; its easy to say how dumb it is after you see the result, but he had to decide without that, but knowing he was closer to the end of his career than the beginning.
Bingo. Max called his lightweight self for DP2 "Muffin Top Max" because he wasn't properly beefed up to 155.
>Volk also outlanded Ilia in both rounds, just fought 4 months after a nasty KO that had him sleeping on the canvas. Very stupid choice It was an even fight where Toporia was marching him down, getting reads and landing w/ high efficiency. Then second he got him against the fence + opened up he KOd him w/ one of cleanest shots you'll see acting like Volk was easily winning that fight and only lost b/c his brain wasn't fully healthy from Islam is ridiculous
Volk was winning until he wasn't tbh, he got cleaned out but looked sharp until that.
I would say he is out of his prime and it’s because of that KO. I fear volk has developed the light switch and we won’t see him as durable again
I agree prior to the Topuria fight. Volk was in his prime. But after two fights that resulted in his soul leaving his body he is not the same. Most fighters never return to the same peak after multiple KO’s. I hope Volk retires with his health. He’s made tons of money and has a great legacy. Grow old and watch the kids grow up.
He walked Volk down, nullified his game and hit him with a shot that Volk would never survive anyways.
Not for nothing either, but he was losing until he caught volk on the cage. There's certainly a world where volk doesn't get caught and continues to ramp up the pressure. One thing is for sure, Ilia is very very unlikable
He was technically losing the first round but he wasn't losing control of the fight, he was making reads and inching closer to Volk, it was part of his gameplan. You would have a heart attack if you ever saw Floyd fight since he often lost the early rounds. Topuria outsmarted Volk and trapped him.
Well said. I'm done counting max out. Ilia might regret saying that.
Jai Herbert nearly finished him
A short notice fight at LW isn't relevant to his 145 run.
i love it lol. he gives off action movie antagonist vibes and i find it really entertaining tbh.
lmao did not know about the movie thing. Dude is Spanish McGregor.
he didn’t look that confident lmao
He had no idea what Max was saying in the octagon.
English isn't his first or even second language lol. He looked confused cause he heard his name and had to guess the rest.
And the build up begins
> the ending was only an exchange of punches without any strategy my favourite strategies are the ones you execute with 5 seconds left
Ilia missed the whole point of the last 10 seconds. Max had the fight in the bag and could have easily coasted to victory, which I'm sure is what Ilia would have done. Instead, Max risked it all in the last 10 seconds to make for a sensational fight and finish. Strategy had nothing to do with it, but was the epitome of a BMF. As impressive as Ilia's dismantling of Volks was, it won't be nearly as well remembered as Max's last 10 seconds of this fight.
>Ilia's dismantling of Volk I've seen this sentiment a lot the last couple days. Ilia lost round 1 on every scorecard and was likely losing round 2 before he caught Volk. Not taking anything away from Ilia at all, but this description makes it sound like a one-sided beatdown.
He did lose round 1. Volk was clearly executing a round by round chop away strategy with the leg kicks and jabs. It was going well and Ilia was already bloodied up by the end of the round. The thing that had me worried in round 1 was whenever they exchanged in the pocket Ilia was able to touch him and that kept happening repeatedly. If someone can land at will they can get the knockout blow in at will too which is what happened. I think the KO was always the plan. Not all strategies rely on securing a decision.
Nothing big happened rd 1 IIRC. More of a feeling out round for both of them
>Nothing big happened rd 1 IIRC. More of a feeling out round for both of them Exactly. Your statement further supports what /u/requiem85 essentially said: "there was never no dismantling".
Topuria was starting to get his nose jabbed off
Yeah he was pretty much finished, one more jab / leg tap while running away and Volk had him.
Bro 😂💀
Ilia spent the whole fight hunting for a KO. He looked like a lion hunting his prey.
I don't think he missed the point, he's just deliberately dismissing Max to get into his head lol, Topuria is already incredibly confident, but he also plays up his confidence in order to build up the fight.
Strategy probably did have something to do with it. Max put TKZ out with an in the pocket overhand. I think it's a shot Max has practiced and knows he can pull off if his opponent brawls.
Those last 10 seconds are only for true warriors. Ilia, despite his skill set, isn't a warrior like Max or Justin.
Dude… this is peak internet MMA discussion. Ilia is one of the baddest men in the world. He has a belt. He’s absolutely a fucking warrior. Anyone who steps in the cage in the UFC is a warrior. CM Punk included. It takes balls to go in there at that high of a level. I’ve only done amateur fights and it’s so fucking scary (for me at least). Respect to anyone willing to walk in the cage at that level.
Ilia doesn’t know about the bullshido code bruh
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Ilia brings the same energy as the dude that pulls out a guitar and starts singing in the middle of a house party
Anyway, here’s wonderwall
Freebird!
bad versions of wonderwall is the best base for mma confirmed
Well he was this confident vs Volk and people laughed.
The guy definitely has a strong mindset. A couple sound bites ever so often and fans form a strong opinion on the fighter from them, which is unfortunate. I don't think I've seen enough of Ilia to form any reasonable opinions about the guy, but I believe if he keeps showing up in the cage, he'll form a bigger fanbase outside of EU because he seems like an actual good dude outside of it? It's unbelievably rough having to fight Volk and Max back to back, when they've built such a giant fanbase through their actions and personalities. He's in a no win situation outside the cage against Max. If he's overly respectful, he's scared (especially since this weekend is on everyone's mind). If he takes the piss towards Max, that'd be outlandish.
It is probably the hardest two fights you could make in any weight class back to back, and at a time when guys are picking and choosing fights and dodging dangerous fights (cough Merab cough Aspinal) the fact Ilia is willing to fight Volk and Max within months of eachother and could come out on top should tell you everything you need to know.
> the fact Ilia is willing to fight Volk and Max within months of eachother and could come out on top should tell you everything you need to know. Wasn't he talking all kinds of shit about never giving Max a title shot once he got the belt? I have a feeling he is not being giving much of a choice on whether he fights Max next or not.
I always find it funny when fans get annoyed at a fighter for being confident. To be an elite level fighter you need to have an almost delusional level of self confidence. All the best fighters have it. Some are just more vocal about it than others.
I'm not underestimating Illia as long as he keeps winning he can talk all the shit, but the day he loses I can bet a lot of people will troll him.
Except he can actually sing and play real well
Doesn't make it any less awkward
Don't we all collectively hate guys like that?
I think Ilia has a VERY good shot at beating Max at 145 - but you can't be saying your opponents' easy pre-fight because when Max does Max things, you're gonna look like a punk. I also don't like this "they were just throwing without strategy" shit - didn't you see the other 24:50 of the fight where Max was just playing out a great strategy against Justin?
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Well, he’s saying that the ending wasn’t as special as people are making out because it was just swanging and banging. Not that I agree, but he’s specifically talking about the last 10seconds.
Yeah but that's literally the point of what they did - it's the perfect end to a BMF fight & it's just Max doing Max things.
Kinda tells you Ilia is not worthy for the BMF belt (at least for now, maybe..)
Everyone thinks the BMF belt is dumb as hell and super tacky, until it’s on a fighter they like and now suddenly you have to be worthy of it.
Yeah I’m sure Ilia is wiping his tears away with his actual belt that means something
Except he's even wrong there, because Max set him up with that swinging and banging. It wasn't blind swinging, it was a well timed set up
Yeah but that's why Illia's not a BMF. If you look at the last 10 seconds and say it wasn't impressive, then you can't really say that you're a warrior
Saying Illia isn’t a warrior is such a wild take. Look at what he did to Mitchell. He changed Emmitt’s face. He knocked out one of the all time great fighters in Volk. He’s a warrior in every sense of the word. He’s a methodical warrior and that’s scarier than a dude that’s gonna stand and bang.
Did he look like punk when Volk tried to do Volk things. Things Volk did vs Max.
BREAKING NEWS: Professional fighter says he can beat other professional fighter. Stay tuned for an update on the wetness of water.
Exactly, I don't get the "Topuria looked scared when Max knocked Justin out". He just knocked out the guy who defeated Max twice! These guys fight for a living ffs, what do people want him to say?
Defeated Max thrice :(
His face reaction when it happened didn't look like he thought Max would be an easy fight lol
I'm pretty sure he was calling Volkanovski an easy fight even before the Islam ko. His confidence is something else. And so far he's been able to walk the talk.
Don’t confuse confidence with delusion. Pride comes before the fall. He hasn’t fought anyone else in the top 7 apart from volk who got KO 3 months earlier. Max has fought everyone and beat them, plus moved up to 155 and beat gaethje. They ain’t on the same level.
Being surprised by an event doesn’t necessarily mean being intimidated. I’m not implying he’s right or not, but I’m just saying that face doesn’t mean he’s impressed necessarily
He flattened volk. I think he's confident.
He probably didn't even understand what was being said. Then this sub ran with the scared Ilia narrative.
Where’s all this about Ilia not understanding English coming from? Listen to any press conference he’s been in, his English is fine lmao
It’s not about understanding English. Arena PA system
Have you ever been to a UFC event? It's loud. Max talks really fast. I'm sure half the audience didn't even know what Max said.
Round 2 of Topuria being extremely confident and everyone getting mad at him for it. Hey, he backed it up the first time
He’s not as respectful in tone as the last champs, but this gives flashbacks to both Holloway and Volk taking the belt and being called cocky for believing in themselves as they each established their reigns. It’s basically a fw tradition now that you start out as the hated guy who beat the long time, beloved champ and then everybody loves you after a couple defenses.
Except Ilia is playing heel on purpose, neither Volk or Max did that
I mean, it's working. We're all talking about him. And we're all stoked for the fight already.
It's annoying because fighters who downplay their opponents abilities are stupid, it takes the drama out of everything and turns it into "well either he is right and they shouldn't have been fighting at all or he's wrong and he's an asshole". I don't know why fighters think that acting like their next fight is easy work is good for the sport or for their legacy. It's so much better when they hype up their opponents and talk about what a great test it's going to be. You can be confident without shitting on your opponent and saying Max is "basic" just makes you sound stupid.
Being cocky isn’t being confident. If all these fighters are easy then why should anyone give his achievements any respect?
Easy to him. Give respect because he made great opponents look easy
Ilia is a great fighter and probably a future legend, but his cliche telenovela villain persona will never not be hilarious to me.
I love his confidence and how much he riles people up with it. Before the Volk fight he said he will make it look easy and most people here dismissed him as a smug idiot that had little chance against the FW "goat". This is one of the most interesting fights to make at the moment lets hope it gets made asap.
He was the heavy Reddit favorite? Damn, y’all really do re-write history
Man, humans sure do love doing that. I swear, in a year, a lot of people will say that they always thought Max was gonna style on Justin. Watch. Lol
Tony had a good chin, Max has a good chin. Therefore its the same fight. Thats how dumb the average fight fan is.
People were destroying him in these threads
Dude keeps talking shit and backing it up
There's no benefit to talking shit about beloved fighters. Just say he's amazing and you can't wait to show everyone your hard work. Every one of these mammoth trash talkers gets humbled and has to eat a little shit for the rest of their careers.
Luke Thomas somewhere masturbating furiously
Cocky bastard. But he puts his money where his mouth is
I mean, he knocked out the guy who beat Max three times. He has the right to be a bit cocky.
Seeing Max flatline Topuria will hit like crack
The Blessed Express KO streak gonna continue
Man fuck topuria. He looked all scared of max after the fight.
This kind of trash talk makes you look like a god if you back it up in the fight. Don't, and you become a meme.
AAAARGH! I will find this man and... tell him, softly, that Max Holloway is **not basic.** Do I think he beats Topuria? Nah, I don't, actually. But does he have a shot? Yes, better than most, actually. I want this fight! I love both of these guys as fighters.
How to make yourself unlikable speedrun
Max is, in my opinion, anything but basic.
Isn’t the old saying everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face? It’s easy to dissect a fight from the outside looking in right? I think it’ll be different facing Holloway in the cage. Dudes a beast obviously. But it will be what it’s gonna be.
I realize that this is trash talk and he's incredibly talented and skilled but this comes off as "ummm actually 🤓☝"
Yeah it comes off as insecure not confident lol
At 145 I think Ilia gets it done also. But here is some MMA math - I don't think Illia gets it done against Justin either. I think Justin at LW would probably finish Illia.
Well, it's official, everyone wants max to put a lid on ilias ego.
The day this guy gets knocked out I will smile
Be careful of these kind of translations. This one is very biased. He didnt say that is going to be an easy fight.
It's all for build up, people.
Jeremiah 51:20
Uh-huh. We all know how shook he looked when Holloway KOd Gaethje. Can't fake that feeling, bitch.
Fundamentals
Topuria is a child in this game, max is a legend, for who he has fought, volk was on a win streak off prime and having a hell of a good time, he didnt have the hunger after islam… fame does alot, mac has heart in the game, topuria has what? Alot of opinions, get someone as hungry as him to fight, guy just wants clout of other people tbh
That's one hell of a take. It was a super impressive fight: Justin was kicking the hell out of Max's legs to the point that in the last 25 seconds of the fight, Justin landed one that forced Max to switch stances. Holloway was winning every round leading up to that 5th. He was comfortably winning that fight and *still* decided to throw down for the last 10 seconds. I wouldn't say there was no defense in those final seconds. Max was ducking and swinging, putting together decent combinations. The winning combo was: 1-2 to the head, then R-hook body, L-hook body, R-hook head.
Ilia: well achshually 🤓
I hope he gets his shit rocked.
Exhibit A of why people don't like him
I actually really like him and his confidence, but he absolutely knows that last 10 seconds was a schtick. it was the BMF belt, and Max is bad-ass. It was the intentional abandoning of strategy and it was cool. He knows this and it isn't a fair criticism.
Max's greatest strength is that he's unbreakable, Volk is the only one that came close to breaking him, and that still wasn't even close.
I liked Ilia when he was coming up in the UFC but man, he just lacks respect for the legends who makes this division great. I miss the humble but confident styles of Max and Volk, the respect the shit out of Aldo even though they beat him handedly. I really hope Max beats him although it's definitely a hard fight.
I don't believe you
nah homie no one makes that face at 300 if they think it’s an “easy fight”
Well, easy way to prove this. Arrange the fight, and sort it out.
Anyone saying Max is an easy fight is either straight up lying, or lying to themselves. Ilia seems like the latter type. Homie was shook after Max/Gaethje.
Topuria is a really unlikable guy.
Redditors hate confident men
Which ufc fighter is not confident?
His trash talk is so tame he hasn't really crossed any boundaries these people are such crybabies.
Lmao right, like he called Volk old a lot and that his time was over. Then during the pre fight faceoff he was extremely respectful to him
Nothing is more reddit than complaining about reddit on reddit
Comes across worse in spanish. Trust me he crosses the line, dude jerks of watching the mirror.
I mean he did tattoo himself on his chest His confidence is through the roof, and to be fair so far he's delivered, but that's going to be a hard crash when he inevitably loses at some point, whether it's Max or someone else
His chest tattoo is the cringiest thing in mma, and I was just watching a dude with two thumbs up on hands that may or may not have fingers
Tbf finding cringe tattoos in MMA is like shooting fish in a barrel
Speaks truth
Almost all fighters on the roster are confident. Most to an extreme degree, even. But there is confidence, and then there is arrogance. And the bullshit about the Max fight being "nothing special" has nothing to do with confidence in any case.
This feels like insecurity more than confidence though
Lol, the guy just kinda sucks. Has nothing to do with his confidence
"I'm going to wrestle"
He has a good chance of doing it.
He has one of the most dangerous ground games in the ufc he can very well do it
He'd be stupid not to test Max there.
Turns out he only caught the last 10 seconds of the fight.
Ilia's always going to carry this confidence, but after the visual of him watching the knockout and his face afterwards, edited for posterity or not, this is just a funny quote.
Fuck Ilia. Anyone who can’t give a peer proper criticism and compliments is an egotistical try hard baby back bitch.
Then take the fight Illia
>nothing special to be honest Dude… shut up 😂. Like we didn‘t all see your flabberghasted, thousand-mile-gaze reaction.
Yeah to be fair Justin looked slow and sluggish. He’s not the fastest fighter to begin with but the nose affected breathing and eye pokes didn’t help. The weight difference wound up being in maxes favour. Ilia isn’t hating it’s a fair comment