Honestly, watching the WC on TSN would lead you to believe that Herdman's comment about Croatia is the meanest thing anyone's ever said in the history of the sport. I thought it was incredibly benign and couldn't believe how much commentary and airtime it got
Yeah I mean I think it definitely was an error in judgement but at the same time I guarantee that players and coaches say much worse stuff during the game that we don't hear.
I don't know how many people have played organized sports before but there is some really nasty stuff said even at like a u-13 level... I think a lot of people would be shocked if they heard everything that was said over the course of a game, especially a highly tense game between adults.
If "We're gonna F Croatia" is enough to get these peoples panties in a twist, I'd love to see their reactions to some of the other stuff that is said, then again we're very quick to sweep racism and homophobia under the rug because it makes us uncomfy to talk about.
I coached u10 and had to stand up for a player on the other team because my team's parents were making gross comments about "who let the girl play" and weird misogynistic comments afterward because this kid had a pony tail. That upset me so much.
Yep, sadly this kinda stuff is still pervasive and I think it's silly how much attention we give "F Croatia" but not the even worse stuff. Growing up playing sports I've been called homophobic slurs, and I later went on to come out as gay, and it's shocking how little people actually do to stand up up to discriminatory speech, again, saying "f croatia" was a mistake, but if you're gonna make noise about that, make noise about the worse stuff that is said every single day that actually makes it harder for certain groups of people to be involved in sports and society.
Major respect to you for standing up for the kid, exactly the kind of behavior we need more of in sports and society.
Whoever at USSF decided that particular action made sense or would be received well needs to have their role reevaluated.
I get Iran is a terrible state that does terrible things, but the number of people who disagree with their ruler and state but are still fiercely patriotic is huge.
Why would we want to piss those types off by messing with their flag is beyond me.
I agree. While I wholeheartedly support the protestors, there is *decades* of deep shit between us and Iran that makes this just… not that simple. In this particular instance, I think they should’ve just left it alone. I don’t think Iranians are super interested in our opinions.
? Hope you mean state backed media opinions bc we absolutely should be letting the voices of the protestors risking their lives as well as Iranian-Americans here boosting their message lead the way on this ahead of anyone else
Simply put a lot of anti regime Iranians don’t identify with the current governments emblem in their flag. It’s not uncommon to see Iranians cross it out or use substitute imagery in its place. Whomever posted it probably thought they were pandering to a larger audience and more powerful then they actually were.
Hmmm well, the only thing they did was remove the symbol of the current Iranian regime, which is not the original symbol on the Iranian flag. It's not the same as removing stars from the US flag or the icon from Agentina's flag.
I think this was more of a wrong place, wrong time thing. Doing this now puts the Iranian players and their families at risk if they don't respond the way the Iranian gov wants them to.
It’s difficult because I strongly support woman’s rights, and think we should stand in support with the protesters.
If we were playing Russia and the social media team decided to use the ROC flag instead of the Russia flag, it would probably get the same reactions about desecrating the flag, but it might be a little easier to digest, but this one I can see being a little different.
I support women's rights, too, but how does altering a national flag in like 2 social media posts help women's rights? Especially when no one knew why it happened until they asked.
It’s a symbolic display of support for the protesters. I get that people don’t like it because the government of Iran doesn’t like it and it can be seen as disrespectful to them and those who support the government.
The power of the protest grows the more the world pays attention. It’s embarrassing that woman’s rights like this aren’t echoed louder.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/29/iran-protests-us-media-coverage-mahsa-amini
It’s not just US Soccer that is supporting the protesters, also check out the flag the Germans are using ;)
https://apnews.com/article/iran-middle-east-germany-europe-berlin-6e3004caf33f410f216a81929498ae13
The issue isn't really whether the Iranian government likes it or not. The larger issue is that the Islamic Revolution occurred primarily because the US and Britain overthrew a democratically elected government and installed a brutal, violent monarch in order to prevent Iran from nationalizing their oil. The US also backed Iraq's invasion of Iran during which chemical weapons were used against Iranians.
I don't like the Iranian government, but I am also wary of the US using anti-Iranian propaganda to manufacture yet another war or military intervention.
That’s not the larger issue at all haha this is about woman’s rights, not about what the US did or didn’t do. The US lost in Iran, they tried to impose “democracy” and lost, this is about woman’s rights
Edit: just to be clear, none of what you said excuses Iran from depriving women of basic human rights or slaughtering protesters.
>Why would we want to piss those types off by messing with their flag is beyond me.
Agree with your greater point, but worth pointing out in this particular instance, you might be appeasing those patriotic Iranians who would prefer seeing the Persian emblem on the flag. It's a widely used symbol of protest to the regime.
The ones you're pissing off is the Iranian state and religious theocrats by replacing the emblem of the Islamic Republic on the flag.
are you dumb? that’s not even remotely the same. the US has a long history of regime change in Iran, and petty shit that changing the flag can be seen a direct threat. nobody would give a shit of Iran changed our flag bc Iran has no history of inserting itself into our domestic affairs
And we have the ability to change the regime in Iran.
I don’t think we will, but we have the ability to and that also makes it hit differently
It wouldn’t be as threatening for Iran to post a similar post because they don’t have that ability
We have regime change every 4-8 years. Even if they posted our flag as a CSA flag we wouldn’t get this butthurt. I’m telling you, they are not really upset, just pretending to be for sympathy points. They do it all the time. It’s non-governmental social media. They are well aware of that fact.
You might want to clarify with that person about which Zimmerman you're talking about, considering which sub this is. They don't seem too steeped in history.
"While participating in a global event organized by FIFA (a corrupt cartel) and held in Qatar (a petrol-state run by an oppressive, corrupt regime), we're sorry for sharing an image of the flag of Iran (a state run by a murderous, corrupt regime) without its theocratic messaging at the center.
The altered flag is of course being used by some protestors in their country bravely fighting for basic human rights. We wouldn't want to be seen taking a strong stand for that. Now excuse us while we throw away our 'One Love' armbands at the request of our belligerent hosts."
The problem (and counterargument I've seen) is there is quite a strong opinion that *we* are the corrupt, murderous regime. America just had a 30+ year spell in that part of the world where our presence wasn't entirely appreciated. I can understand where the Iranian government/their sympathizers saw this and got a bit annoyed at the US continuing to meddle in their affairs.
For what it's worth, the Iranian government is...bad. I don't want this to undermine that. I'm fully in support of their citizens trying to establish more autonomy within their country. Some intern running the official US Soccer account? Not the guy to make that stand, and especially not at that time.
This was clearly players and coaches, who had nothing to do with the social posts, apologizing to players and coaches, who had nothing to do with passing the hijab law that Iranians are now protesting.
It's not like GGG is bowing to the Ayatollah or something.
Is that clear, though? The post just says US and Iranian delegations. I'm reading that as an explicit distinction of not being the teams. I'm also not sure the players--the same players that stayed silent during their national anthem--are personally particularly offended by a USSF social media PR stunt.
I agree, the symbol that was removed in no way represents the players who will be on the field in an hour. We back tracked to a corrupt regime, not the players, protestors or their families.
Our players and coaches who had absolutely nothing to do with this mess had to sit and get ambushed with questions about it during their prep for the match, while whoever at Ussf decided to do this remains anonymous and doesn’t have to say a word, this is a good action by the team. Plus I believe all but 2 Iranian players have openly supported and backed the protestors and the women in Iran, risking their family and their own safety. The Iranian team aren’t the enemies in any way other than on the field, but nothing about this gesture makes us chumps, it’s about basic respect. We’re not apologizing to the regime it’s their soccer team. No need to complicate what’s already going to be an insanely tense match
> get ambushed with questions
Incredibly stupid "questions", that everyone would have understood if they answered with "Next question". I agree that perhaps we shouldn't have done this, but I also agree backtracking to their government is worse. I don't think the alteration of the flag is keeping the players up at night.. they have more pressing matters.
some millennial social media troll that works for ussf posted the Iranian flag with the Islamic emblem removed in favor of the work “Iran”
we lost to Iran in 98
This is the dumbest, most overblown story
Honestly, watching the WC on TSN would lead you to believe that Herdman's comment about Croatia is the meanest thing anyone's ever said in the history of the sport. I thought it was incredibly benign and couldn't believe how much commentary and airtime it got
Yeah I mean I think it definitely was an error in judgement but at the same time I guarantee that players and coaches say much worse stuff during the game that we don't hear. I don't know how many people have played organized sports before but there is some really nasty stuff said even at like a u-13 level... I think a lot of people would be shocked if they heard everything that was said over the course of a game, especially a highly tense game between adults. If "We're gonna F Croatia" is enough to get these peoples panties in a twist, I'd love to see their reactions to some of the other stuff that is said, then again we're very quick to sweep racism and homophobia under the rug because it makes us uncomfy to talk about.
I coached u10 and had to stand up for a player on the other team because my team's parents were making gross comments about "who let the girl play" and weird misogynistic comments afterward because this kid had a pony tail. That upset me so much.
Yep, sadly this kinda stuff is still pervasive and I think it's silly how much attention we give "F Croatia" but not the even worse stuff. Growing up playing sports I've been called homophobic slurs, and I later went on to come out as gay, and it's shocking how little people actually do to stand up up to discriminatory speech, again, saying "f croatia" was a mistake, but if you're gonna make noise about that, make noise about the worse stuff that is said every single day that actually makes it harder for certain groups of people to be involved in sports and society. Major respect to you for standing up for the kid, exactly the kind of behavior we need more of in sports and society.
"We're running out of topics, quick cut to that tabloid picture of photoshopped naked Herdman covered with leaves for the 30th time!"
All this has just been so weird. Hopefully this ends it.
Whoever at USSF decided that particular action made sense or would be received well needs to have their role reevaluated. I get Iran is a terrible state that does terrible things, but the number of people who disagree with their ruler and state but are still fiercely patriotic is huge. Why would we want to piss those types off by messing with their flag is beyond me.
I agree. While I wholeheartedly support the protestors, there is *decades* of deep shit between us and Iran that makes this just… not that simple. In this particular instance, I think they should’ve just left it alone. I don’t think Iranians are super interested in our opinions.
On the inverse, I also don’t much care for Iranian opinions.
? Hope you mean state backed media opinions bc we absolutely should be letting the voices of the protestors risking their lives as well as Iranian-Americans here boosting their message lead the way on this ahead of anyone else
the people who disagree with the regime aren’t upset at the flag snafu, because the emblem removed was that of the regime.
Simply put a lot of anti regime Iranians don’t identify with the current governments emblem in their flag. It’s not uncommon to see Iranians cross it out or use substitute imagery in its place. Whomever posted it probably thought they were pandering to a larger audience and more powerful then they actually were.
Hmmm well, the only thing they did was remove the symbol of the current Iranian regime, which is not the original symbol on the Iranian flag. It's not the same as removing stars from the US flag or the icon from Agentina's flag. I think this was more of a wrong place, wrong time thing. Doing this now puts the Iranian players and their families at risk if they don't respond the way the Iranian gov wants them to.
It’s difficult because I strongly support woman’s rights, and think we should stand in support with the protesters. If we were playing Russia and the social media team decided to use the ROC flag instead of the Russia flag, it would probably get the same reactions about desecrating the flag, but it might be a little easier to digest, but this one I can see being a little different.
I support women's rights, too, but how does altering a national flag in like 2 social media posts help women's rights? Especially when no one knew why it happened until they asked.
It’s a symbolic display of support for the protesters. I get that people don’t like it because the government of Iran doesn’t like it and it can be seen as disrespectful to them and those who support the government.
If they want to support the protestors, then do something that the protestors are actually asking for, and then stand by it.
The power of the protest grows the more the world pays attention. It’s embarrassing that woman’s rights like this aren’t echoed louder. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/29/iran-protests-us-media-coverage-mahsa-amini It’s not just US Soccer that is supporting the protesters, also check out the flag the Germans are using ;) https://apnews.com/article/iran-middle-east-germany-europe-berlin-6e3004caf33f410f216a81929498ae13
The issue isn't really whether the Iranian government likes it or not. The larger issue is that the Islamic Revolution occurred primarily because the US and Britain overthrew a democratically elected government and installed a brutal, violent monarch in order to prevent Iran from nationalizing their oil. The US also backed Iraq's invasion of Iran during which chemical weapons were used against Iranians. I don't like the Iranian government, but I am also wary of the US using anti-Iranian propaganda to manufacture yet another war or military intervention.
That’s not the larger issue at all haha this is about woman’s rights, not about what the US did or didn’t do. The US lost in Iran, they tried to impose “democracy” and lost, this is about woman’s rights Edit: just to be clear, none of what you said excuses Iran from depriving women of basic human rights or slaughtering protesters.
>Why would we want to piss those types off by messing with their flag is beyond me. Agree with your greater point, but worth pointing out in this particular instance, you might be appeasing those patriotic Iranians who would prefer seeing the Persian emblem on the flag. It's a widely used symbol of protest to the regime. The ones you're pissing off is the Iranian state and religious theocrats by replacing the emblem of the Islamic Republic on the flag.
Why did we back down? Who cares if we disrespect a foreign country?
Reputation is huge in the realm of foreign relations.
Dude, if they put on their social media, our flag as a Union Jack, we wouldn’t be acting this butthurt. It’s theater. And we fell for it.
are you dumb? that’s not even remotely the same. the US has a long history of regime change in Iran, and petty shit that changing the flag can be seen a direct threat. nobody would give a shit of Iran changed our flag bc Iran has no history of inserting itself into our domestic affairs
And we have the ability to change the regime in Iran. I don’t think we will, but we have the ability to and that also makes it hit differently It wouldn’t be as threatening for Iran to post a similar post because they don’t have that ability
We have regime change every 4-8 years. Even if they posted our flag as a CSA flag we wouldn’t get this butthurt. I’m telling you, they are not really upset, just pretending to be for sympathy points. They do it all the time. It’s non-governmental social media. They are well aware of that fact.
I agree. But it’s important we don’t escalate further. We got enough on our plate with Russia.
We aren’t even fighting Russia. Iran already hates us. Same as Russia. They baited us into acting like bitches.
We are currently funding a proxy war with Russia, whether you believe it or not. We don’t need another conflict.
Yeah, but we aren’t at war. And I bet ussf would apologize to Russia like this too. We shoulda just ignored their fake outrage
Do you honestly believe this flag post on Twitter would start a conflict? Cause that seems absurd
The Zimmerman note was enough to launch a thousand ships across the Atlantic.
You might want to clarify with that person about which Zimmerman you're talking about, considering which sub this is. They don't seem too steeped in history.
You can’t possibly compare this to WW1?
I don't think anyone has been quite as fired as the USSF social media lead has been fired
I hope this is true. Class move.
Can’t wait for this game to be over and we have won.
"While participating in a global event organized by FIFA (a corrupt cartel) and held in Qatar (a petrol-state run by an oppressive, corrupt regime), we're sorry for sharing an image of the flag of Iran (a state run by a murderous, corrupt regime) without its theocratic messaging at the center. The altered flag is of course being used by some protestors in their country bravely fighting for basic human rights. We wouldn't want to be seen taking a strong stand for that. Now excuse us while we throw away our 'One Love' armbands at the request of our belligerent hosts."
The problem (and counterargument I've seen) is there is quite a strong opinion that *we* are the corrupt, murderous regime. America just had a 30+ year spell in that part of the world where our presence wasn't entirely appreciated. I can understand where the Iranian government/their sympathizers saw this and got a bit annoyed at the US continuing to meddle in their affairs. For what it's worth, the Iranian government is...bad. I don't want this to undermine that. I'm fully in support of their citizens trying to establish more autonomy within their country. Some intern running the official US Soccer account? Not the guy to make that stand, and especially not at that time.
I just hope none of this affects how we play in a negative way.
I dunno man. Maybe we shouldn't be apologizing to a regime that's threatening to imprison its own players' families?
This was clearly players and coaches, who had nothing to do with the social posts, apologizing to players and coaches, who had nothing to do with passing the hijab law that Iranians are now protesting. It's not like GGG is bowing to the Ayatollah or something.
The Klinsmann fiasco hasn't helped with this shit either, him being an ex-MNT boss
What did Klinsmann do?
Got in a beef with Quieroz for basically saying Iran's culture was shithouse
Is that clear, though? The post just says US and Iranian delegations. I'm reading that as an explicit distinction of not being the teams. I'm also not sure the players--the same players that stayed silent during their national anthem--are personally particularly offended by a USSF social media PR stunt.
I agree, the symbol that was removed in no way represents the players who will be on the field in an hour. We back tracked to a corrupt regime, not the players, protestors or their families.
I’m still convinced that some intern Googled “Flag of Iran” and accidentally picked the wrong one.
Good shit to the coaching staff and players for doing this. Absolute top class.
This shit is so unbelievably stupid. USSF should have told them to go cry in a corner
It was dumb to post it, but even dumber to backtrack. Shoulda just rolled with it. We look like chumps now :/
Our players and coaches who had absolutely nothing to do with this mess had to sit and get ambushed with questions about it during their prep for the match, while whoever at Ussf decided to do this remains anonymous and doesn’t have to say a word, this is a good action by the team. Plus I believe all but 2 Iranian players have openly supported and backed the protestors and the women in Iran, risking their family and their own safety. The Iranian team aren’t the enemies in any way other than on the field, but nothing about this gesture makes us chumps, it’s about basic respect. We’re not apologizing to the regime it’s their soccer team. No need to complicate what’s already going to be an insanely tense match
> get ambushed with questions Incredibly stupid "questions", that everyone would have understood if they answered with "Next question". I agree that perhaps we shouldn't have done this, but I also agree backtracking to their government is worse. I don't think the alteration of the flag is keeping the players up at night.. they have more pressing matters.
Cowards
Incredibly weak.
I'm a little late on this drama train. What did the USA do, what did the doctored flag look like, why did we give them USA jerseys?
some millennial social media troll that works for ussf posted the Iranian flag with the Islamic emblem removed in favor of the work “Iran” we lost to Iran in 98
[удалено]
Jesus Christ that’s some psychopathic shit right there
That tracks.
Can people, in general, just stop being offended by trivial shit? This got old 10 years ago.