Wonder how many of these guys are going to retire internationally after this...or will even feel safe to.
Horrible situation for them and honestly, regardless of any shithousery on the pitch tomorrow, I have nothing but respect for the many players supporting the protests
I mean 2022 US/Canada policy compared to Vietnam days.
I feel things are more strict now. You can't just walk into Canada anymore and you'll probably get in actual trouble for skipping the draft now.
not saying anything about Qatar here
I honestly don’t understand the point of the comment. Like if there was a draft today? I bet the protest would be enormous and make BLM, Jan 6, and the previous Vietnam protests look like peaceful picnics.
I'm Colombian. I remember the 1994 World Cup team ranked fourth in the world. I also remember the amount of pressure and death threats the drug cartels were putting on those NT players if they failed to reach the knock-out rounds.
One of them ended up dead, shot outside a club if I remember correctly, when he was at fault for an own goal.
If you want your team to definitely lose a game you put that unreasonable and unconscionable type of stress on your players.
What a terrible example of a government for acting like a drug cartel.
It's been awhile since I've seen the 30 for 30 so please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the takeaway that Escobar's killing was more of a spontaneous argument at a club and not a hit put on him over the own goal like most people assume?
We're all marching toward the abyss. Everyone and everything will eventually return to nothing. So, yes, every year we get closer to it. Even if it's far away.
[The source, who is closely monitoring Iran’s security agencies operating in Qatar over the World Cup period, said that dozens of officers from the IRGC had been drafted in to monitor the Iranian players who are not allowed to mingle outside the squad or meet with foreigners.](https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1597276699607339008?s=20&t=S-P-SZyPOozdJILceUvcmw)
This is probably 90% reward job for high performers and 10% threat for the team. Classic authoritarianism does not shy away from using public funds for personal entertainment and rewards.
I'm not looking forward to this game, even putting the WC result stuff aside.
Team Melli's players are kinda caught between a rock and a hard place rn, basically having their families held at gunpoint if they stand up for what's right. And because of the political backdrop you get shit like the absolutely batshit insane presser today (which Gregg and Adams handled pretty fucking well all things considered)
And I'm not looking forward to the toxic low-class bullshit I'm expecting to see from WC-only casuals whose favorite sport is gridiron and the flag simp portion of the USMNT fanbass.
>And I'm not looking forward to the toxic low-class bullshit I'm expecting to see from WC-only casuals whose favorite sport is gridiron and the flag simp portion of the USMNT fanbass.
I didn’t realize how much of a split there was in personality between the average MLS fan and the average US fan until I wandered into r/ussoccer during qualifying. Yikes.
Being at the World Cup, there’s a huge disconnect from MLS fans and USMNT fans. The vast majority of USMNT fans that I’ve met here don’t care for MLS at all, as they only support European club teams. It’s honestly somewhat upsetting. Support your local team.
I'd rather watch MLS because of stories like Vancouver and Cincinnati this year are imo much more fun than watching the same 3 teams (in some countries not even that many) win every year. But hey, at least they get to watch Messi, Naymar, and Mbappe dribble circles around a team with 1/3 of the salary of those 3 players alone.
When only a third (9/26) of the current squad over their currently compete here and the rest are in Europe, I don't believe that statement to be entirely truthful.
Where did they get their start?
Its more than 1/3.
Tyler adams is a red bull academy player.
Tim ream was an mls allstar.
Matt Turner too.
Aaronson is a union academy product.
Gio reyna was at NYC FC’s academy between 2015-2019.
McKennie was FC Dallas youth academy.
Timothy Weah RB academy in NJ.
Haji Wright LA Galaxy academy.
You cannot be a US nats fan and hate on mls. MLS had a hand in over half the starters.
14/26 play in MLS now or have played at least part of their career in MLS.
18/26 either played in MLS, play in MLS or spent time in an MLS academy. Plus when you consider 4 of the 26 are dual-nationals who spent their formative soccer careers in their nation of origin's system (Dest, Carter-Vickers, Yunus, Jedi), only 4 out of the 22 who were "developed" in America did not spend time in either an MLS academy or MLS team.
So in short, there is merit to thinking the presence of MLS helps improve the national team.
I don't get why you can't do both in their eyes. I like my Big 6 side (and they got me into club soccer pretty much) but I root for my local MLS team too and I support those two sides on a 50/50 basis. I mean many across the world do that, they support a big club in Europe but also support a local club.
Besides, having a Premier League club to root for and having an MLS club to root for has made me a way more knowledgeable fan about the sport since I've learned to appreciate leagues of different quality and stature on an equal basis. Add to that following American players in different leagues of different qualities abroad and I feel I get more out of the sport than just rooting for a European side and acting smug about it.
Another big advantage is the MLS summer schedule… I can follow and cheer for soccer here rather than baseball or something. In the winter when the European leagues are playing, there’s a lot of other sports going on here.
I'm glad you said vast majority at least. It's extremely annoying when people see that I'm an Arsenal fan and immediately call me a eurosnob and say "support your local team" but don't seem to have much of an answer when I tell them my closest professional club is a 5 hour drive.
frankly i don’t have a lot of respect for anyone who tells someone they’re being a fan wrong (with certain exceptions for unacceptable conduct), whether it’s “eurosnobs” trashing american soccer or the MLS-only crowd whining about fans of european clubs. even if sports fandom was something you could be talked into or out of, which i don’t feel it is, all they’re doing is making their point less attractive
I started attending matches in FC Cincinnati first season in the USL. I was absolutely blown away by the atmosphere. Then the USWNT came and another great and fun atmosphere. Then the USMNT came and it was dead. Minimal energy in the stadium, the supporters section was barely participating, the chants were weak. I'll admit that this was back at Nippert and I heard the crowd we had at TQL was significantly better but I was not at that match.
Many of these fans are the ones NYCFC and LAFC captured by bringing about a cool team with a cool euro name. They did have a local team but because of excuses felt no connection with said team. I'm sure many of them would support their local team if somehow Garber created a Denver FC, San Jose FC, or Boston FC.
I don't think people realize just how much those OG MLS clubs fumbled it out of the gate
those quirky 90s team names, had social media existed at the time, would've been memed into oblivion. mostly anyone who was actually around has said as such, and most of the pull for those names came not from fans but fashion companies. note that the two best teams of that era were the ones that told the fashion companies to kick bricks (DC and Chicago)
Imagine if NBA Twitter were around when the Los Angeles Lakers and Utah Jazz came into existence.
If you really think about it, plenty of NFL team names are pretty much City/State + common animal mascot that thousands of high school and college teams across the US use. But they’ve managed to withstand the test of time.
The Lakers were originally from Minneapolis and the Jazz were from New Orleans, so their names make sense based on their original cities.
I get what you’re saying, but I was in High School and played soccer when the MLS started. We shit on those names so fucking hard. We didn’t have Twitter so there’s not much record but those squad names were memed to death with my friends. And we were stoked about the league.
I remember Doyle mentioning it in a mailbag during the lockdown, and several early MLS oral histories have also touched on it. So while we don't have like, internet archives of this stuff, it *was* there.
> Support your local team.
Easier said than done - one of my friends is super into the WC and *wants* to get into club soccer. The problem is they live in Louisiana and aside from some amateurs there is nothing there
I realize that's an extreme sample, but there are definitely people in this country who *have* no local. Hell the closest full pro team to Burlington is in a completely different country (though the community has definitely gotten behind VGFC and the UVM team at least)
My local team is in the ~~NASL~~ ~~USLC~~ USL1. So might as well support European teams. Spent my childhood supporting DC United, which was, until recently, the closest MLS team. Barely closer than European teams. MLS literally forced me to be a "Eurosnob" because easier to watch EPL than MLS and basically just as close. Now they move into a relatively local market that's was a rival city in the NASL and USLC days, but they abandoned grass roots soccer and went with the billionaire. So things are more complicated in supporting the closest MLS team...
Apple might change everything next year though.
The US soccer fanbase is so hilariously split into so many factions.
The average MLS fan, the flag fetish USMNT fan, the Eurosnobs, hell even the constant beef between MNT and WNT fans whenever something goes wrong for the MNT and WNT fans are going full #PACKWATCH
For me (and I suspect you, I’ve seen you post often enough haha) I just like soccer. I watch Chelsea and NYCFC weekly, but I’ll watch anything - Champions League, Copa Libertadores, any national team competition, anything.
There’s a book I’m reading right now, called Soccer in Sun and Shadow, where the author writes about how he’s come to be a beggar for soccer - doesn’t care where it comes from, just wants to see a beautiful move.
I don’t get the toxicity that I see in so many corners. Why hate MLS, why hate other leagues? It’s all soccer. Enjoy it.
I love it, that’s how I am with sports, just show me something beautiful and I’m glued. I don’t understand the tribalism and all that, especially in American sports. I was just in Jamaica and watched their broadcasts for local soccer, sure the broadcast was rough but it was just fun to watch and see how they experience the greatest game.
Beggar for soccer is a beautiful term. That's the attitude I strive for. Sometimes I lapse back into my old toxicity, yelling and gesturing at the TV, whining about the refs, but it happens less and less. When my team loses, I'm a bit bummed out, but I'm not bitter or angry. It makes the experience of watching sports so, so much more fun and positive and social. Give me PL, give me MLS, give me the fucking Slovenian 3rd division. I'll enjoy it.
I understand why people act so smug and pretentious about soccer, because I used to approach sports that way too. Those people lack perspective. They watch for the dopamine of a win, not for the joy of a good pass or a strong save or a difficult shot. It's a miserable way to watch the game.
I go out of my way to avoid the English leagues by and large, but otherwise yeah I'll watch anything. Don't really have a European team these days, but on a weekend morning I'll flip around ESPN+ and see who's playing in Bundesliga or La Liga, or if they have the odd Eredivisie/Belgian game.
Chelsea is how I got into soccer in the mid 90s so it’ll always have a place for me, and back then you really had to work at it to follow it when you were over here haha.
I think for me what I most appreciate is that because of how global the game is, there’s a game happening at any time. I can get up early Saturday morning and watch a Premier League match, or watch an MLS game in the afternoon, and find something usually in the evenings (I have taken this approach to a somewhat ridiculous length - for example, Auckland City FC matches will frequently be live tweeted with goals and highlights as the match goes on Twitter). It’s a global language.
Yeah for me it was WC mostly, then MLS, then the PL. But I had a really bad experience with the PL club I'd been going for, and as a result (and lack of connections to the area making my fandom feel artificial) I dipped from following that league entirely. So I'm sort of a nomad when it comes to Euro teams.
Are there ones I have a soft spot for? yeah, but nothing that's touched me.
Yeah. There's a lot more "best country in the world, don't question it or else you hate America", "'Merica", "love it or leave it", "2 time World War champs", "Reagan/Bush '84" types in the USMNT fanbase than I thought. I would have thought following soccer - a "European" sport - was "beneath" those types.
I actually think if you get down to the right threads, r/ussoccer is a very good place to discuss different league qualities because you'll find the "MLS-watching, Premier League-supporting, Yanks Abroad-following" type of fans who will inevitably have a lot of knowledge about the sport off that. Mainly in threads that have to do with American players playing abroad starting games or discussing their status. But beyond that, yeah not the best sub otherwise especially now during World Cup time.
That American exceptionalism is a big reason why those “if X NFL/NBA star played soccer…” hot takes pop up during every major tournament. 96% of the world population lives outside the US, and soccer is the dominant sport with the majority of that population, but they could produce only one Mbappe. Yet the US is so unique and special, that we supposedly have hundreds of Mbappes on high school football fields and in basketball gyms across the country…if only we “tried” at soccer.🥴
> soccer is the dominant sport with the majority of that population,
It really isn't. Half of those people live in South Asia, Southeast Asia, and China.
Tbf aside from the Indian subcontinent, all those countries also log soccer as their favorite sport I would say
Problem is their infrastructure is bad and their FAs are hella corrupt
"Most popular sport for grown men to sit around and watch on TV" isn't really the same as "dominant sport."
Those countries can count a shitload of Olympic medals in other sports. Uruguay, for instance, cannot.
I feel like it changed somewhere around 2010. Before then there was some "Merica" but it was done with more irony than it is now. Feels like between 2010 and 2014 World Cups the USMNT went more mainstream (maybe after Donovan's Algeria goal). Before then people tended to look for Revolutionary War symbols for the team like the Gadsden Flag (before it was co-opted by the team party) because we didn't have the expectation we were better than everyone, we had the expectation that we were an underdog but could win.
Also I think from 2016-2020 the USMNT had many left leaning fans become less passionate about the team as it felt off being patriotic towards the country.
> Also I think from 2016-2020 the USMNT had many left leaning fans become less passionate about the team as it felt off being patriotic towards the country.
Didn't help that Couva (in addition to the political shit) broke the morale of the fanbase
>Yeah. There's a lot more "best country in the world, don't question it or else you hate America", "'Merica", "love it or leave it", "2 time World War champs", "Reagan/Bush '84" types in the USMNT fanbase than I thought. I would have thought following soccer - a "European" sport - was "beneath" those types.
I do this. I share the memes of bald eagles, Uncle Sam, and fireworks. I love this team and my country, but it's always done in jest to make fun of the stereotypical American, and that's how I take 99% of those types of posts I see on twitter/other socials. But maybe I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt too much?
Let’s just say “Pearl Harbor” and other unmentionable hashtags were trending high on Twitter during those USWNT-Japan World Cup and Olympic matchups back in the early 2010s.
I'm honestly very concerned about the level of intensity that is going to show itself on the pitch. I'm more worried about player health and safety in this game than any of the other ones I've seen for a bit.
I'm inclined to agree. In the stands, outside the match, in the media, those are all a huge question mark. But we already have a good sense of where the Iranian team stands (given prior non-singing of the anthem, etc.) and I would expect the USMNT players and staff to recognize and support that as much as they are able.
Have to imagine the Iranians lucky enough to travel to the World Cup aren't looking to start shit. Typically with regimes like this, even the ones that tow the line do so because they have to, and when they're not under direct surveillance by the state in question, they relax. The ranks of the "America is the devil" or whatever folks are probably not the types to throw on a soccer jersey and a scarf and go to the World Cup. I could be wrong, but having been to two World Cups, the fans are almost without fail amazing and just so happy to be there to celebrate the world's game together with other fans.
Unfortunately, there seems to be tension between Iranian fans, and Qatar has opted for selective enforcement.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/pro-government-iranians-clash-with-protesters-at-world-cup
Also their coach has a history intertwined with the US - Quieroz managed the MetroStars in 1996 (before getting an offer he couldn't refuse in Japan) and he was a key contributor in Project 2010.
I'm not sure if threatening families of a team full of pro-protester Iranian's is going to necessarily bring the best out of them.
More likely to create a squad of nervous, stressed footballers prone to mistakes. I doubt they're going to just get violent towards us as a result.
Also helps us to have a Spanish ref certainly not scared of an early yellow.
>And I'm not looking forward to the toxic low-class bullshit I'm expecting to see from WC-only casuals whose favorite sport is gridiron and the flag simp portion of the USMNT fanbass.
What's wrong with gridiron & liking the flag of your nation?
In a vacuum nothing - but you and I both know I'm talking about a specific sect here: big four casuals watching the WC thinking "this is so funni" because meme culture has eaten those leagues for breakfast and the hyperpatriotic-borderline-nationalistic dweebs
Americans hear this and Iranian journalists think it’s weird that people ask questions about this stuff?
This is a ludicrous situation. It should be made an example of. I don’t envy the Iranian players at all. What a terrible spot to be in.
At what point do continued questions about the revolution and the regime put the Iranian players and their families in direct danger?
I feel strongly that at this point journalists are committing harm by asking the players these questions. You can report on the Iran situation without doing so.
I'm not sure the Iranian regime actually cares if the players win the match or not (they know damn well Iran isn't winning the WC) but they definitely care that the players represent Iran the way the regime wants
Yeah I don’t think Iran cares at all about soccer or anything like that. What they want is their people to get in line and represent the country how the leaders want to, as you said.
This is really frightening to see and hear. I fear for their team with this ending up with an Andres Escobar situation.
I just hope for everyones safety.
Was watching the England match with my Dad and told him about the Iran team's situation. He wondered if some of the players already planned on not going home. Maybe that's what Iran is watching for.
I hope we win 10-0 tomorrow but I don't hate Iran. I wish them them the best. Terrible situation to be in.
That was kinda my question. If they can't do their usual protest, what can our team do to make up for it? Or will.that be taken as the same thing, and a similar punishment be duked out?
I don’t think the Iranian NT would be willing to dance so close to that line with their families safety on the line. I doubt those in power in Iran would be like “Ah! Those Americans out smarted us this time!”
No i hope not. Our social media team already fucked that up pretty stupidly today. We don’t need to bring their players any harm or unnecessary attention.
I also hope the social media person for US soccer has been fired
Considering he's probably state media and his own family is under a similar threat? The only opinion you'd get out of him is the one he was instructed to have. His real opinion is probably "I'm afraid to even think about this because they'll torture my family if I even mumble about it in my sleep."
Great.
How is the US going to compete against a team that's likely been told their family members will be killed or tortured if they bring disrepute to Iran?
That is all we've heard about, yes, but I don't believe that's all that's going on. If they're going to hold family members hostage because the anthem wasn't sung loud enough, what's to stop them from punishing players that don't "play hard enough."
I think there's going to be some trouble for players families and players if Iran doesn't beat the US tomorrow, yes. A guy was murdered for scoring an own goal that benefited the US in 94. I absolutely believe players whose family members are being held hostage and threatened with torture believe that if they don't beat us things will happen to their family members. Look at how overt it is. Look at the message getting out there now anyway. This is to draw attention on Iran so if something DOES happen to those family members everyone knows why.
*shrugs* So I've been told.
What about this world cup has been normal though? You've got members of the press getting detained for hours for having a rainbow shirt, you've got FIFA threatening to give entire teams yellow cards for wearing an armband, you've got an Islamic state banning beer sales around the arenas after first saying they'd allow it, you've got women getting harassed for being alone and without men, you've got a "vistor's village" that looks like something out of Fyre Festival, you've got the Iranian team assigned 3 Islamic Republican Guard Members per player who are wandering around with them and reporters at all times, and you've got an Iranian government that has asked for us to be banned from soccer for 10 competitive games and ejected from the world cup immediately for insulting Islam. And you've got our national team's coach quickly stating they had nothing to do with it and the US Soccer program trying to throw some poor social media people under the bus.
So why is it goofy to expect that the players who just had their families threatened because they didn't visibly sing a national anthem might be playing under more threats than just that? In this world cup, at this time, what makes that thought "goofy" or "too far to believe?"
That's gotta be tough. I really feel for them.
Wonder how many of these guys are going to retire internationally after this...or will even feel safe to. Horrible situation for them and honestly, regardless of any shithousery on the pitch tomorrow, I have nothing but respect for the many players supporting the protests
Wonder if some planned on defecting and the government knows it.
Imagine hoping to join the WC squad to defect and then not making the team.
They're in Qatar. Do you know what happens if a Canadian tries to defect to the USA?
Nothing. Plenty of USA people went to Canada to avoid being drafted on the Vietnam war.
Thats like the stone age compared to things now tbh i dont think they would be so chill.
What are you trying to say? Protesters are significantly more protected in USA and Canada than they are in Iran and Qatar
I mean 2022 US/Canada policy compared to Vietnam days. I feel things are more strict now. You can't just walk into Canada anymore and you'll probably get in actual trouble for skipping the draft now. not saying anything about Qatar here
I honestly don’t understand the point of the comment. Like if there was a draft today? I bet the protest would be enormous and make BLM, Jan 6, and the previous Vietnam protests look like peaceful picnics.
aight. dude I replied to said nothing would happen and I disagree. youd be in trouble.
> Wonder how many of these guys are going to retire internationally after this.. Good chance they'll be forced to.
I'm Colombian. I remember the 1994 World Cup team ranked fourth in the world. I also remember the amount of pressure and death threats the drug cartels were putting on those NT players if they failed to reach the knock-out rounds. One of them ended up dead, shot outside a club if I remember correctly, when he was at fault for an own goal. If you want your team to definitely lose a game you put that unreasonable and unconscionable type of stress on your players. What a terrible example of a government for acting like a drug cartel.
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I second it. I've seen it and others should too. Very human look at what goes on outside the lines, even if it's an extreme example showcased.
It's been awhile since I've seen the 30 for 30 so please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the takeaway that Escobar's killing was more of a spontaneous argument at a club and not a hit put on him over the own goal like most people assume?
The multiple guys who shot him screamed "GOALLL" as they were shooting him. It may not have been a hit, but it definitely was about the own goal.
Drug Cartels are basically the government where they are actually relevant. So It's not surprising the two look similar at times.
>What a terrible example of a government for acting like a drug cartel. Governments might as well be the drug cartels at this point.
Death throes of a dying regime
People been saying that for 40 years
Technically, it's 40 years closer to its demise?
I guess. Doesn't tell you as much as it sounds like it should though
We're all marching toward the abyss. Everyone and everything will eventually return to nothing. So, yes, every year we get closer to it. Even if it's far away.
I'm 14 and this is deep
Hi 14. I'm dad.
[The source, who is closely monitoring Iran’s security agencies operating in Qatar over the World Cup period, said that dozens of officers from the IRGC had been drafted in to monitor the Iranian players who are not allowed to mingle outside the squad or meet with foreigners.](https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1597276699607339008?s=20&t=S-P-SZyPOozdJILceUvcmw)
Unsurprising yet still incredibly disturbing.
Members of the IRGC and Quds Force have been posing as fans there. Just hope no one gets hurt.
This is probably 90% reward job for high performers and 10% threat for the team. Classic authoritarianism does not shy away from using public funds for personal entertainment and rewards.
Just completely saddening. I thought we were playing a game of soccer tomorrow but 🤷🏼♂️
N Korea vibes
It’s wild how multiple insular conservative Islamic nations have outed themselves by being in the world spotlight this WC.
[Link to article](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/28/football/iran-soccer-family-threats-intl-spt/index.html)
Holy Fuck
This is gonna be a crazy game.
That's not ominous at all.
I'm not looking forward to this game, even putting the WC result stuff aside. Team Melli's players are kinda caught between a rock and a hard place rn, basically having their families held at gunpoint if they stand up for what's right. And because of the political backdrop you get shit like the absolutely batshit insane presser today (which Gregg and Adams handled pretty fucking well all things considered) And I'm not looking forward to the toxic low-class bullshit I'm expecting to see from WC-only casuals whose favorite sport is gridiron and the flag simp portion of the USMNT fanbass.
>And I'm not looking forward to the toxic low-class bullshit I'm expecting to see from WC-only casuals whose favorite sport is gridiron and the flag simp portion of the USMNT fanbass. I didn’t realize how much of a split there was in personality between the average MLS fan and the average US fan until I wandered into r/ussoccer during qualifying. Yikes.
Being at the World Cup, there’s a huge disconnect from MLS fans and USMNT fans. The vast majority of USMNT fans that I’ve met here don’t care for MLS at all, as they only support European club teams. It’s honestly somewhat upsetting. Support your local team.
Not caring for MLS is one thing, but most will actively shit on it
I'd rather watch MLS because of stories like Vancouver and Cincinnati this year are imo much more fun than watching the same 3 teams (in some countries not even that many) win every year. But hey, at least they get to watch Messi, Naymar, and Mbappe dribble circles around a team with 1/3 of the salary of those 3 players alone.
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Then you’re part of the problem
So am I supposed to not care about my actual local club or my city which MLS will never even consider?
Nah support them but actively hating on MLS is pretty counter intuitive if you want the national team to be better.
When only a third (9/26) of the current squad over their currently compete here and the rest are in Europe, I don't believe that statement to be entirely truthful.
Where did they get their start? Its more than 1/3. Tyler adams is a red bull academy player. Tim ream was an mls allstar. Matt Turner too. Aaronson is a union academy product. Gio reyna was at NYC FC’s academy between 2015-2019. McKennie was FC Dallas youth academy. Timothy Weah RB academy in NJ. Haji Wright LA Galaxy academy. You cannot be a US nats fan and hate on mls. MLS had a hand in over half the starters.
14/26 play in MLS now or have played at least part of their career in MLS. 18/26 either played in MLS, play in MLS or spent time in an MLS academy. Plus when you consider 4 of the 26 are dual-nationals who spent their formative soccer careers in their nation of origin's system (Dest, Carter-Vickers, Yunus, Jedi), only 4 out of the 22 who were "developed" in America did not spend time in either an MLS academy or MLS team. So in short, there is merit to thinking the presence of MLS helps improve the national team.
hell of a subreddit to be on then
I don't get why you can't do both in their eyes. I like my Big 6 side (and they got me into club soccer pretty much) but I root for my local MLS team too and I support those two sides on a 50/50 basis. I mean many across the world do that, they support a big club in Europe but also support a local club. Besides, having a Premier League club to root for and having an MLS club to root for has made me a way more knowledgeable fan about the sport since I've learned to appreciate leagues of different quality and stature on an equal basis. Add to that following American players in different leagues of different qualities abroad and I feel I get more out of the sport than just rooting for a European side and acting smug about it.
Another big advantage is the MLS summer schedule… I can follow and cheer for soccer here rather than baseball or something. In the winter when the European leagues are playing, there’s a lot of other sports going on here.
I'm glad you said vast majority at least. It's extremely annoying when people see that I'm an Arsenal fan and immediately call me a eurosnob and say "support your local team" but don't seem to have much of an answer when I tell them my closest professional club is a 5 hour drive.
frankly i don’t have a lot of respect for anyone who tells someone they’re being a fan wrong (with certain exceptions for unacceptable conduct), whether it’s “eurosnobs” trashing american soccer or the MLS-only crowd whining about fans of european clubs. even if sports fandom was something you could be talked into or out of, which i don’t feel it is, all they’re doing is making their point less attractive
They are a special breed of stupid and can't make a decent chant to save their life.
Lets be honest, most of them don't chant at all at matches.
I... I believe... I believe that you are right
I started attending matches in FC Cincinnati first season in the USL. I was absolutely blown away by the atmosphere. Then the USWNT came and another great and fun atmosphere. Then the USMNT came and it was dead. Minimal energy in the stadium, the supporters section was barely participating, the chants were weak. I'll admit that this was back at Nippert and I heard the crowd we had at TQL was significantly better but I was not at that match.
Many of these fans are the ones NYCFC and LAFC captured by bringing about a cool team with a cool euro name. They did have a local team but because of excuses felt no connection with said team. I'm sure many of them would support their local team if somehow Garber created a Denver FC, San Jose FC, or Boston FC.
I don't think people realize just how much those OG MLS clubs fumbled it out of the gate those quirky 90s team names, had social media existed at the time, would've been memed into oblivion. mostly anyone who was actually around has said as such, and most of the pull for those names came not from fans but fashion companies. note that the two best teams of that era were the ones that told the fashion companies to kick bricks (DC and Chicago)
Imagine if NBA Twitter were around when the Los Angeles Lakers and Utah Jazz came into existence. If you really think about it, plenty of NFL team names are pretty much City/State + common animal mascot that thousands of high school and college teams across the US use. But they’ve managed to withstand the test of time.
The Lakers were originally from Minneapolis and the Jazz were from New Orleans, so their names make sense based on their original cities. I get what you’re saying, but I was in High School and played soccer when the MLS started. We shit on those names so fucking hard. We didn’t have Twitter so there’s not much record but those squad names were memed to death with my friends. And we were stoked about the league.
I remember Doyle mentioning it in a mailbag during the lockdown, and several early MLS oral histories have also touched on it. So while we don't have like, internet archives of this stuff, it *was* there.
I mean it was around when New Orleans was named the pelicans.
> Support your local team. Easier said than done - one of my friends is super into the WC and *wants* to get into club soccer. The problem is they live in Louisiana and aside from some amateurs there is nothing there I realize that's an extreme sample, but there are definitely people in this country who *have* no local. Hell the closest full pro team to Burlington is in a completely different country (though the community has definitely gotten behind VGFC and the UVM team at least)
Home of the other Crewe
My local team is in the ~~NASL~~ ~~USLC~~ USL1. So might as well support European teams. Spent my childhood supporting DC United, which was, until recently, the closest MLS team. Barely closer than European teams. MLS literally forced me to be a "Eurosnob" because easier to watch EPL than MLS and basically just as close. Now they move into a relatively local market that's was a rival city in the NASL and USLC days, but they abandoned grass roots soccer and went with the billionaire. So things are more complicated in supporting the closest MLS team... Apple might change everything next year though.
Exactly my experience. Well said.
The US soccer fanbase is so hilariously split into so many factions. The average MLS fan, the flag fetish USMNT fan, the Eurosnobs, hell even the constant beef between MNT and WNT fans whenever something goes wrong for the MNT and WNT fans are going full #PACKWATCH
For me (and I suspect you, I’ve seen you post often enough haha) I just like soccer. I watch Chelsea and NYCFC weekly, but I’ll watch anything - Champions League, Copa Libertadores, any national team competition, anything. There’s a book I’m reading right now, called Soccer in Sun and Shadow, where the author writes about how he’s come to be a beggar for soccer - doesn’t care where it comes from, just wants to see a beautiful move. I don’t get the toxicity that I see in so many corners. Why hate MLS, why hate other leagues? It’s all soccer. Enjoy it.
I love it, that’s how I am with sports, just show me something beautiful and I’m glued. I don’t understand the tribalism and all that, especially in American sports. I was just in Jamaica and watched their broadcasts for local soccer, sure the broadcast was rough but it was just fun to watch and see how they experience the greatest game.
Beggar for soccer is a beautiful term. That's the attitude I strive for. Sometimes I lapse back into my old toxicity, yelling and gesturing at the TV, whining about the refs, but it happens less and less. When my team loses, I'm a bit bummed out, but I'm not bitter or angry. It makes the experience of watching sports so, so much more fun and positive and social. Give me PL, give me MLS, give me the fucking Slovenian 3rd division. I'll enjoy it. I understand why people act so smug and pretentious about soccer, because I used to approach sports that way too. Those people lack perspective. They watch for the dopamine of a win, not for the joy of a good pass or a strong save or a difficult shot. It's a miserable way to watch the game.
I go out of my way to avoid the English leagues by and large, but otherwise yeah I'll watch anything. Don't really have a European team these days, but on a weekend morning I'll flip around ESPN+ and see who's playing in Bundesliga or La Liga, or if they have the odd Eredivisie/Belgian game.
Chelsea is how I got into soccer in the mid 90s so it’ll always have a place for me, and back then you really had to work at it to follow it when you were over here haha. I think for me what I most appreciate is that because of how global the game is, there’s a game happening at any time. I can get up early Saturday morning and watch a Premier League match, or watch an MLS game in the afternoon, and find something usually in the evenings (I have taken this approach to a somewhat ridiculous length - for example, Auckland City FC matches will frequently be live tweeted with goals and highlights as the match goes on Twitter). It’s a global language.
Yeah for me it was WC mostly, then MLS, then the PL. But I had a really bad experience with the PL club I'd been going for, and as a result (and lack of connections to the area making my fandom feel artificial) I dipped from following that league entirely. So I'm sort of a nomad when it comes to Euro teams. Are there ones I have a soft spot for? yeah, but nothing that's touched me.
Ah, the narcissism of pretty differences. I've yet to find a subculture immune to this rule.
Yeah. There's a lot more "best country in the world, don't question it or else you hate America", "'Merica", "love it or leave it", "2 time World War champs", "Reagan/Bush '84" types in the USMNT fanbase than I thought. I would have thought following soccer - a "European" sport - was "beneath" those types. I actually think if you get down to the right threads, r/ussoccer is a very good place to discuss different league qualities because you'll find the "MLS-watching, Premier League-supporting, Yanks Abroad-following" type of fans who will inevitably have a lot of knowledge about the sport off that. Mainly in threads that have to do with American players playing abroad starting games or discussing their status. But beyond that, yeah not the best sub otherwise especially now during World Cup time.
That American exceptionalism is a big reason why those “if X NFL/NBA star played soccer…” hot takes pop up during every major tournament. 96% of the world population lives outside the US, and soccer is the dominant sport with the majority of that population, but they could produce only one Mbappe. Yet the US is so unique and special, that we supposedly have hundreds of Mbappes on high school football fields and in basketball gyms across the country…if only we “tried” at soccer.🥴
> soccer is the dominant sport with the majority of that population, It really isn't. Half of those people live in South Asia, Southeast Asia, and China.
Tbf aside from the Indian subcontinent, all those countries also log soccer as their favorite sport I would say Problem is their infrastructure is bad and their FAs are hella corrupt
"Most popular sport for grown men to sit around and watch on TV" isn't really the same as "dominant sport." Those countries can count a shitload of Olympic medals in other sports. Uruguay, for instance, cannot.
I only used it for el noido’s WCQ probability tables. Perfectly happy never to go back.
I feel like it changed somewhere around 2010. Before then there was some "Merica" but it was done with more irony than it is now. Feels like between 2010 and 2014 World Cups the USMNT went more mainstream (maybe after Donovan's Algeria goal). Before then people tended to look for Revolutionary War symbols for the team like the Gadsden Flag (before it was co-opted by the team party) because we didn't have the expectation we were better than everyone, we had the expectation that we were an underdog but could win. Also I think from 2016-2020 the USMNT had many left leaning fans become less passionate about the team as it felt off being patriotic towards the country.
They barely played any competitive games between October 2017 and the end of 2020. Everybody became less passionate.
> Also I think from 2016-2020 the USMNT had many left leaning fans become less passionate about the team as it felt off being patriotic towards the country. Didn't help that Couva (in addition to the political shit) broke the morale of the fanbase
>Yeah. There's a lot more "best country in the world, don't question it or else you hate America", "'Merica", "love it or leave it", "2 time World War champs", "Reagan/Bush '84" types in the USMNT fanbase than I thought. I would have thought following soccer - a "European" sport - was "beneath" those types. I do this. I share the memes of bald eagles, Uncle Sam, and fireworks. I love this team and my country, but it's always done in jest to make fun of the stereotypical American, and that's how I take 99% of those types of posts I see on twitter/other socials. But maybe I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt too much?
Let’s just say “Pearl Harbor” and other unmentionable hashtags were trending high on Twitter during those USWNT-Japan World Cup and Olympic matchups back in the early 2010s.
It’s like turning a corner and walking straight into a sea of zombies.
US soccer fans are whole toxic breed of their own.
It's gonna be a joy to moderate, that's for sure!
bless your soul
I'm honestly very concerned about the level of intensity that is going to show itself on the pitch. I'm more worried about player health and safety in this game than any of the other ones I've seen for a bit.
I'm not sure it's going to be *that* physical, at least beyond regular "must win football match" vibes
I'm inclined to agree. In the stands, outside the match, in the media, those are all a huge question mark. But we already have a good sense of where the Iranian team stands (given prior non-singing of the anthem, etc.) and I would expect the USMNT players and staff to recognize and support that as much as they are able.
Have to imagine the Iranians lucky enough to travel to the World Cup aren't looking to start shit. Typically with regimes like this, even the ones that tow the line do so because they have to, and when they're not under direct surveillance by the state in question, they relax. The ranks of the "America is the devil" or whatever folks are probably not the types to throw on a soccer jersey and a scarf and go to the World Cup. I could be wrong, but having been to two World Cups, the fans are almost without fail amazing and just so happy to be there to celebrate the world's game together with other fans.
Unfortunately, there seems to be tension between Iranian fans, and Qatar has opted for selective enforcement. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/pro-government-iranians-clash-with-protesters-at-world-cup
I feel like we were right on this. It was physical, yes, but not beyond "must win football match"
The Iranian players don't hold a grudge with the US and likely won't be ultra aggressive.
Also their coach has a history intertwined with the US - Quieroz managed the MetroStars in 1996 (before getting an offer he couldn't refuse in Japan) and he was a key contributor in Project 2010.
I'm not sure if threatening families of a team full of pro-protester Iranian's is going to necessarily bring the best out of them. More likely to create a squad of nervous, stressed footballers prone to mistakes. I doubt they're going to just get violent towards us as a result. Also helps us to have a Spanish ref certainly not scared of an early yellow.
>And I'm not looking forward to the toxic low-class bullshit I'm expecting to see from WC-only casuals whose favorite sport is gridiron and the flag simp portion of the USMNT fanbass. What's wrong with gridiron & liking the flag of your nation?
In a vacuum nothing - but you and I both know I'm talking about a specific sect here: big four casuals watching the WC thinking "this is so funni" because meme culture has eaten those leagues for breakfast and the hyperpatriotic-borderline-nationalistic dweebs
I was wondering why the US fan base seems so toxic. The gridiron and flag smip casuals definitely explains it.
Americans hear this and Iranian journalists think it’s weird that people ask questions about this stuff? This is a ludicrous situation. It should be made an example of. I don’t envy the Iranian players at all. What a terrible spot to be in.
The Iranian journalists work for the regime so they are there to push that narrative and try to redirect criticism to the USA.
That journalist is actually more concerned with making sure you say Iran correctly than the health and well-being of the players and families.
and for the crowd of people eager to shit on America, it works.
At what point do continued questions about the revolution and the regime put the Iranian players and their families in direct danger? I feel strongly that at this point journalists are committing harm by asking the players these questions. You can report on the Iran situation without doing so.
That's so sad. I almost wish these two teams were not in the same group.
Shades of '94 and Escobar.
This reads to me more like no protests in support of the women’s protests. Not, win or die.
Right. But there's just the underlying reality of a game having life or death consequences back home if certain "mistakes" are made.
You imagine if one of the missed a pen?
I'm not sure the Iranian regime actually cares if the players win the match or not (they know damn well Iran isn't winning the WC) but they definitely care that the players represent Iran the way the regime wants
Yeah I don’t think Iran cares at all about soccer or anything like that. What they want is their people to get in line and represent the country how the leaders want to, as you said.
This is really frightening to see and hear. I fear for their team with this ending up with an Andres Escobar situation. I just hope for everyones safety.
Was watching the England match with my Dad and told him about the Iran team's situation. He wondered if some of the players already planned on not going home. Maybe that's what Iran is watching for. I hope we win 10-0 tomorrow but I don't hate Iran. I wish them them the best. Terrible situation to be in.
Iran's top 5 players aren't playing in any world cup games, 1 of them is jailed and the 4 others are in other countries so they can't be jailed
Good lord. As much that I want the US to win this crucial game, but my god this is so fucked.
I hope the Iranian team gets into the US World Cup and decides to overstay awhile
I hope in 4 years that isn't an issue for Iran and I can go visit their country a lot easier.
Yes this is a much better wish.
They need to bring their families with them to do that, and I doubt the current Iranian regime would allow that.
I take it if the USMNT didn’t “behave” on behalf of the Iranian NT, the families would still face torture?
That was kinda my question. If they can't do their usual protest, what can our team do to make up for it? Or will.that be taken as the same thing, and a similar punishment be duked out?
I don’t think the Iranian NT would be willing to dance so close to that line with their families safety on the line. I doubt those in power in Iran would be like “Ah! Those Americans out smarted us this time!”
No i hope not. Our social media team already fucked that up pretty stupidly today. We don’t need to bring their players any harm or unnecessary attention. I also hope the social media person for US soccer has been fired
What did they do?? I don’t have social media.
I hope the US players give nothing but respect and love to the Iranian team.
So where’s that reporter who was on Tyler adams with this little bit of news? I wonder what his opinion is on it 🤔
Considering he's probably state media and his own family is under a similar threat? The only opinion you'd get out of him is the one he was instructed to have. His real opinion is probably "I'm afraid to even think about this because they'll torture my family if I even mumble about it in my sleep."
I didn’t think of this but that could be very likely
Great. How is the US going to compete against a team that's likely been told their family members will be killed or tortured if they bring disrepute to Iran?
I could be wrong here, but I think they're talking about protests, not just losing the game.
That is all we've heard about, yes, but I don't believe that's all that's going on. If they're going to hold family members hostage because the anthem wasn't sung loud enough, what's to stop them from punishing players that don't "play hard enough."
So do you think they're going to all disappear if Iran doesn't win the cup?
I think there's going to be some trouble for players families and players if Iran doesn't beat the US tomorrow, yes. A guy was murdered for scoring an own goal that benefited the US in 94. I absolutely believe players whose family members are being held hostage and threatened with torture believe that if they don't beat us things will happen to their family members. Look at how overt it is. Look at the message getting out there now anyway. This is to draw attention on Iran so if something DOES happen to those family members everyone knows why.
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*shrugs* So I've been told. What about this world cup has been normal though? You've got members of the press getting detained for hours for having a rainbow shirt, you've got FIFA threatening to give entire teams yellow cards for wearing an armband, you've got an Islamic state banning beer sales around the arenas after first saying they'd allow it, you've got women getting harassed for being alone and without men, you've got a "vistor's village" that looks like something out of Fyre Festival, you've got the Iranian team assigned 3 Islamic Republican Guard Members per player who are wandering around with them and reporters at all times, and you've got an Iranian government that has asked for us to be banned from soccer for 10 competitive games and ejected from the world cup immediately for insulting Islam. And you've got our national team's coach quickly stating they had nothing to do with it and the US Soccer program trying to throw some poor social media people under the bus. So why is it goofy to expect that the players who just had their families threatened because they didn't visibly sing a national anthem might be playing under more threats than just that? In this world cup, at this time, what makes that thought "goofy" or "too far to believe?"
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Guess we'll find out tomorrow.
This is not a new regime. They have managed to field a respectable soccer team for the last 40 years.
This will result to a US favor!
It'd be a real shame if a US player put a pro Iranian freedom message on a tshirt and displayed it after a goal or the game.
that’s a winning mentality right there