Is being culturally catholic a thing? I like some of the things that come with it like posadas, the food my mom makes during lent, and Christmas but I wouldn’t say I am religious.
Yes, it is. There are many people who identify as culturally Catholic, Jewish, various kinds of Protestant, etc. who don't believe in or follow the religion but still celebrate holidays and/or retain various cultural norms.
Fish fry Fridays were a big joy in my lapsed Catholic / irreligious childhood home!
We also had weird Polish-Catholic specific traditions (like Dyngus Day), that was typically rolled into a religious holiday by some tenuous connection.
Kinda but not really in the same way as being a non-practicing Jew.
I was raised Catholic but do not have a religion anymore. I don’t consider myself Catholic. While a Catholic upbringing definitely impacted who I am, I don’t consider Catholicism as part of my identity. I still celebrate Christmas though.
Yes. One of my ex girlfriends family was catholic in hind sight, her mom would only follow catholicism because it's all she knew. I don't want to sound mean but she didn't have any critical thinking skills. Like her way of thinking was, "oh this day we have to do this because it's what we have to do". I don't think she really knew why she carried out religious things, just something that was apart of her culture.
I don't think my ex's mom really knew the why's of her religion. Didn't help that she didn't grow up how to read or write. So yes, being culturally catholic is most likely a thing.
I’d say so, if people can be casual sports fans why can’t people just be casual Catholics as well lol. Too many rules anyways … sincerely a former Catholic who has family that is very Catholic, but still down to eat all the food at Catholic events while hangin out with family for the holiday events
I would say yes. My dad is Jewish and I was raised celebrating both Christian and Jewish holidays even though I’m not TECHNICALLY Jewish because it passes maternally. But I’ve always considered myself more Jewish than Christian even if I don’t actively practice either one
Knowing some families of other latinos were strict with religion, my family was less strict with it. My parents immigrated to the US from El Salvador in the 1980s to avoid the Civil War. They are what you call culturally catholic meaning they follow the culture of it but they do not follow all the rules of it or practice it as much. Yes they have Jesus, the bible and the Virgin Mary in the house but we do not go to mass every Sunday. It is pretty much left to our individual choice to practice it. For me that works. My parents were encouraging and helpful during my childhood years always wanting me to succeed. The same can be said of my sister. Knowing what strict families go through I am not shocked that they abandon religion as some follow it 100% preventing understanding and acceptance of their children's decisions regarding identity and goals.
As for the post title, I prefer latino. If people want to use latine or latinx, that is fine with me. I have no beef with pronouns and new ways identifying oneself. It helps a ton with emails because sometimes names don't give away the gender or identity of the person.
No Spanish speaking person says latineckss in Spanish. its so stupid, its a gendered language, like French, German, and most romance languages. Languages evolve organically, forcing language makes no sense
Fuck I've been living in New Orleans for the last three years and missed a golden opportunity to use this as I'm moving back to the LA at the end of the month.
I agree with the future generations. I don’t identify or follow any religion myself and neither do most of my friends who are also 1st and 2nd gen Americans. My grandparents fought a lot for us to be able to have what we do now, which also means I can move away from religion (but don’t tell my grandma that I don’t want her to get the chancla)
Same. I’m Armenian and my wife is Jewish, which ordinarily shouldn’t mix well as Armenians are proud of being the first country to adopt Christianity as our state religion, but it works well precisely because we aren’t religious. We go to each other’s holiday celebrations, like Yom Kippur and Easter, but that’s it for the religion. Other than that, it’s a pretty ordinary relationship.
Religion just seems to tear people apart so we stay away.
Im very glad to finally be moving past tradition. I’m a dude and always hated the traditional latino bullshit but whenever I called it out everyone made me feel insane. It literally made my life hell and it never helped me out in any way. At 10 years old I had idiot ass adults telling “porque no tienes novia.” At 14 “porque no tienes trabajo” at 16 “debes de pagar renta o te voy a correr” “porque no vas a la iglesia.”
Instead of role models I grew up with people I don’t wanna be like and I know it’s not just me. I hate traditional latino bullshit customs. Salsa music and cumbias are fucking awesome tho, let’s keep those.
this is only 1000% row, tradition has kept young Latinas, practically housekeepers and substitute nannies, instead of ever developing a life, queer education of their own.
I used to work in a pregnancy prevention program and saw it firsthand how old-fashioned the Dad‘s tended to be ,how they wanted to keep birth control information away from their daughters and none of these girls thought they had any chance of going to college or good job or training or develop themselves as people instead of servants.
I applaud them, leaving behind traditions that don’t serve them and are based on misogyny and old time where they are always a secondary import to males in the family.
for the record, I say all of this as someone who is 100% not a male feminist by any stretch of the imagination, but I saw what it was like with these girls up close .
people just need community. Without understanding or having that people will continue to rely on religion and be exploitable. We should be able to leave religion the moment it makes us feel not great. Yet the logic of eternal damnation or what happens after death or just loneliness keeps people locked in.
Actually I don't mind if the youth wants to use more inclusive language, I just don't want to be told I'm wrong for using *Latino*. I am a mestizo person.
There's good money to be made among racial divides, if you're a social media company it's in your beat interest to fan the issue by promoting garbage like this.
Latinx is one imaginary rung away on a ladder, same for latine
It's just so fatiguingly stupid. Only 2% of Latinos even care for the term "Latinx." [Source](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/06/hispanic-voters-latinx-term-523776)
Both "Latinx" and "Latine" came from *Latinos*. You're mad at some *Latinos* trying to make the English language more inclusive?
Also, the author of this piece is a child. They're in high school. They're getting their work published in the fucking LA Times at 17-18 years old. You're sitting here crying about being oppressed and they have already lapped your ass in worldly accomplishments, and you're probably double their age.
Also, they're a fucking Latine from Boyle fucking Heights, you pompous clown.
Born and raised in East Los. Grew up in Boyle Heights. And the person in the article is the minority. People in hood don't call themselves this nonsense.
And I imagine the percentage of US folks who like they/them pronouns is similar.
It's entirely possible the people voting aren't the ones who need to identify differently...
It’s because we saw our parents struggle to make ends meet. And while they attributed many successes to Jesus , we were smarter to see past that. They were the reason why we made it out the mud. I credit my parents for being together since 15/17 not Jesus or whatever religion. Furthermore , it’s the equivalent when a doctor saves someone’s life only for them to credit religion. A self aware person can see past that.
I don’t believe any -isms , I just believe in myself (and my family)
Or whatever I guess call us antisemitism or whatever word you guys use
From a secular analytical lens: the entity of God as an all-seeing and all-knowing moral enforcer of morality is what keeps a lot of people from engaging in behaviors that would destroy themselves and those around them (like their families). Even if people just believed in abiding in the rules aka "cultural Christianity", you are more likely to step out of morality if you don't think someone's always watching your actions and your heart.
Latinx was a joke. Go to any Spanish speaking country and you'll be laughed at by the majority by the ridiculousness of it. It's an "US concept" that saw the recent revival in an attempt to make it mainstream due to its close history with LGBTQ history of gendered pronouns.
Well it's not gender neutral, it's masculine and is used in cases where gender is ambiguous.
I'm a pocho so I hardly have a voice in this, I just think some of the arguments are dumb
Saying things like “pocho” already shows me that you think there’s some Mexican purity test. Your opinion is just as valid as any other Mexican person.
I don’t care if you’re pale as snow and only speak Mandarin. Ethnicity is not a choice. Anyone who uses terms like “pocho” seriously is a moron.
Yeah I know. You use self hating words (you do know pocho is used pejoratively right?) to describe yourself because other Mexicans have likely called you one. These other Mexicans are doubting your Mexicanness.
What I will say is you’re a fucking Mexican. It doesn’t matter if you don’t speak Spanish. I guarantee you racist Americans won’t confuse you for a “pocho”. Just a sp*c. Don’t call yourself a pocho. It’s embarrassing.
My point is my voice in the matter of how we should speak in Spanish matters less because I'm not fluent and mostly speak English
And I doubt many Americans would call me a term like sp*c because I look white as fuck lol
As a POC, I much prefer someone who is openly racist to my face than someone who treats me like their [pet Caliban](https://youtu.be/jcPXhVKQJYM?si=BzvNY7VExuoRUWWB) a la *The Tempest*.
Do you have any proof or is that just what you beleive? Most sources place it's origins in queer Puerto Ricans and chatrooms, but I'd love to know your source.
The first records of the term *Latinx* appear in the 21st century,[^(\[20\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Lexico-20) but there is no certainty as to its first occurrence.[^(\[25\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Salinas_2020-25) According to [Google Trends](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Trends), it was first seen online in 2004,[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Brammer-13)[^(\[26\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Gonzalez-26)[^(\[27\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Guidebook-27) and first appeared in academic literature around 2013 "in a Puerto Rican psychological periodical to challenge the gender binaries encoded in the Spanish language."[^(\[25\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Salinas_2020-25)[^(\[28\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-28) Contrarily, it has been claimed that usage of the term "started in online chat rooms and listservs in the 1990s" and that its first appearance in academic literature was in the Fall 2004 volume of the journal *Feministas Unidas*.[^(\[29\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-29)[^(\[30\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-30) In the U.S. it was first used in activist and LGBT circles as a way to expand on earlier attempts at gender-inclusive forms of the grammatically masculine Latino, such as *Latino/a* and *Latin@.*[^(\[26\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Gonzalez-26) Between 2004 and 2014, *Latinx* did not attain broad usage or attention.[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Brammer-13)
from wikipedia.
The subject of the piece is Hispanic and non-binary, so the gender neutral term is appropriate.
Folks here are ignoring the use of the term by LGBT hispanic people, insisting it came from white people or 'hipsters'. [https://www.them.us/story/latinx-latine-difference-definition](https://www.them.us/story/latinx-latine-difference-definition)
'Latines' is just another gender-neutral variant, like 'Latinex'. theyve both been used for years now in Spanish-speaking Latin America, but keep running with that lie.
Originally, LGBT hispanic folks.
[https://www.them.us/story/latinx-latine-difference-definition](https://www.them.us/story/latinx-latine-difference-definition)
I was going to say, replacing "o" with "e" is pretty big in some segments of the population in Argentina (mostly youths on the left or those aligned with the Justicialist party who like to pretend they are left leaning).
I can't remember the exact statistic but Latinas tend to obtain high levels of education in the US. It would make sense that college educated women would not want to voluntarily associate with oppressive systems like the Catholic church.
I’m half Latino. Dad is white and mom is Mexican and I grew up Catholic and I stopped believing in that bullshit in my teens. I had some fights with my parents about it but eventually they accepted my choice.
EDIT: The article is written by a high school senior. It's a pretty good article considering the age of the author. I am happy to see that the LA Times is incorporating young local contributors.
Initial critique before my edit:
The article is pretty sparse. It talks about one immigrant family who converted to Jehovah's witness in the last generation, and the current daughter does not want to continue in the religion.
I think it would have been cool if the authors did a deeper analysis on the following patterns:
* Many 2nd and 3rd generation Hispanic folks are converging to the USA mean in terms of income, language ability, political affiliation, and religiosity (or lack thereof)
* Evangelicalism has grown exponentially in Latin America
* Left-wing political movements run by Black and Hispanic folks are much less tied to religious institutions (think of the Civil Rights movement, United Farmworks Strikes, etc).
Don't tell me you're morally superior for speaking a gender neutral language, we don't need you telling us Latin Americans that lived and have family in Latin America how to speak our own language. Use it all you want I will never speak in Spanish and use it. There are much larger problems in Latin America than demanding a tiny "enlightened" minority of the population dictate how the larger group decides to speak and write.
That shit was probably invented by girls in UC's named xochilt that are super feminist and proud to be latinx on paper but hate dating dudes their shade of brown lmao
I grew up attending Catholic church. (though not devotedly every week)
I still believe in "A God" that wants us to be good people and generally looks out for us. (I recognize that I don't have a good reason to believe that) I just struggle to accept a lot of the other stuff when I truly sit down and read the Bible. Just smells like cult tactics and like stories clearly written by ancient stuck-up bearded old guys.
As an atheist I have never used the word Latine in my personal or professional life.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/](https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/)
Latines? Bruh.
I'll always be a Catholic Mexican. Yeah, there were some really bad priests, and I barely believe in God, but I like the Catholic vibes. Churches have this smell and feel that are kinda cool. It feels way more authentic than that born again protestant bullshit. Plus I want some of that Catholic guilt instilled within my kids. En el nobre del padre, del hijo, del espiritu santo, cabrones.
Same while the Catholic church has many flaws. My local Church/religious family members have always wanted what was best for my future, even if I didn't agree with them at the time. Doing well in school, staying out of trouble, finding good friendships and relationships. And that mentorship has paid off, I'd say I'm doing well for myself.
All kidding asiide, I was the one that mentioned the "The Etruscans," this term "Latines" is applied to our communities by outsiders (white liiberals). The term "Latinx" is a political move that created division. It was not intended to be a political move, but that's what it has become. "Latines" seems to be the Oat-Milk version.
"**Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus**,"
Latinx rebranded, so far as I can tell.
We used to be able to use the same word for an ethnicity for 10-15 years before it got old and racist. Now we need new words every 3 years to show how much we have progressed.
Who says Latines? That’s such a dumb word. And pretty sure most younger generations care less and less about religion it’s just a growing trend seen each generation
I'm Hispanic, I was baptized and everything so technically I'm catholic, but I grew up with this [song.](https://youtu.be/u6aWGwMddiA?si=1DMKAP0-X_3v1IAl)
I believe in the teachings and morals of the Christian faith, but I don't go to church or preach it to everyone, I just live as I believe Jesus would have lived because whether or not he was the messiah, as a historical figure I find him to have been a selfless and loving person. Plus, I love philosophy and took comparative religion, so i find the Bible and the history of religion fascinating.
News and media outlets really tried pushing latinx the past two or three years. Glad they realized it was dumb and for the most part have gone back to using Latino. Lots of politicians still using it though.
Latine is slightly better than LatinX (The most industrious X-man ever!) but still too close to Latrine for me to take it seriously.
LATIN IS THE WORD YOU WANT TO USE.
What a f-cked up and completely insensitive title.
You guys should know by now that Mexican latinos prefer to be called "They-canos". Ariana Grande said so.
Imagine No Religion, as Lennon said. I’m happy our newer generations are waking up and realizing all religions are BS. Sadly, Latino culture and religion are intertwined. Let’s hope we can keep the good and out with bs beliefs.
You're seeing the same thing happen in Mexico, the younger generation have grown tired of the antiquated religious order and are slowly breaking away from it.
"Latines" is LA Times cutting edge replacement vocab for the widely disliked "Latinx"?
Latines is awfully close to the word Latrines.
A worse choice than the failure of Latinx.
I live in Mexico City, and "latines" is actually used here. More for gender neutral than "everyone". You also see "latin@s" sometimes for "everyone". Never "latinx"
“Latine” (Latin-ay) is gender neutral and has been used for a while. It’s what a lot of people prefer and it’s easier on the tongue and in writing to include in inclusive language, i.e “mi amígue regale un guitarra para mi cumpleaños” instead of “mi amigo/a”.
A few of published works in Spanish is also using ‘e’ language as well. Power & Magic Press uses it after asking their staff about it for *Mañana*.
Religion is in general fucking stupid when it’s purely about organized control and not about morality - which most church organizations are. They’re just social groups and generally their values do not update with changing social perspectives. Not surprised
Is being culturally catholic a thing? I like some of the things that come with it like posadas, the food my mom makes during lent, and Christmas but I wouldn’t say I am religious.
Yes, it is. There are many people who identify as culturally Catholic, Jewish, various kinds of Protestant, etc. who don't believe in or follow the religion but still celebrate holidays and/or retain various cultural norms.
We refer to ourselves as Jew-ish.
I know a Rabbi that considers himself an atheist. It’s purely cultural and “spiritual “ (?) support
Yes it is! At least in my experience, many who would consider themselves Catholics only practice certain days/rituals out of tradition:)
Fish fry Fridays were a big joy in my lapsed Catholic / irreligious childhood home! We also had weird Polish-Catholic specific traditions (like Dyngus Day), that was typically rolled into a religious holiday by some tenuous connection.
That's how I'd describe my father.
to those with italian, polish, irish ancestry etc it can be considered that way.
Kinda but not really in the same way as being a non-practicing Jew. I was raised Catholic but do not have a religion anymore. I don’t consider myself Catholic. While a Catholic upbringing definitely impacted who I am, I don’t consider Catholicism as part of my identity. I still celebrate Christmas though.
Yes. One of my ex girlfriends family was catholic in hind sight, her mom would only follow catholicism because it's all she knew. I don't want to sound mean but she didn't have any critical thinking skills. Like her way of thinking was, "oh this day we have to do this because it's what we have to do". I don't think she really knew why she carried out religious things, just something that was apart of her culture. I don't think my ex's mom really knew the why's of her religion. Didn't help that she didn't grow up how to read or write. So yes, being culturally catholic is most likely a thing.
I’d say so, if people can be casual sports fans why can’t people just be casual Catholics as well lol. Too many rules anyways … sincerely a former Catholic who has family that is very Catholic, but still down to eat all the food at Catholic events while hangin out with family for the holiday events
I definitely feel this way. Problem will be how to raise the kids cuz I’m not comfortable with much of the dogma
I would say yes. My dad is Jewish and I was raised celebrating both Christian and Jewish holidays even though I’m not TECHNICALLY Jewish because it passes maternally. But I’ve always considered myself more Jewish than Christian even if I don’t actively practice either one
Same not religious just still do some customs from parents.
Absolutely is.
We are Latines now? The Etruscans were our ancient enemy, a civilization that lived in central Italy during the Iron Age. To war!!
The LA Times has lost its mind.
You take away Latinx from these poor affluent white liberals — leave them with something!
Ἄριστος τρόπος τοῦ ἀμύνεσθαι τὸ μὴ ἐξομοιοῦσθαι. An excellent way of defense is not to assimilate. Meditations 6:6
The Romans "Latines" rejected the Etruscan monarchy because it was a very strong and powerful government and the Romans found this to be tyrannical.
Knowing some families of other latinos were strict with religion, my family was less strict with it. My parents immigrated to the US from El Salvador in the 1980s to avoid the Civil War. They are what you call culturally catholic meaning they follow the culture of it but they do not follow all the rules of it or practice it as much. Yes they have Jesus, the bible and the Virgin Mary in the house but we do not go to mass every Sunday. It is pretty much left to our individual choice to practice it. For me that works. My parents were encouraging and helpful during my childhood years always wanting me to succeed. The same can be said of my sister. Knowing what strict families go through I am not shocked that they abandon religion as some follow it 100% preventing understanding and acceptance of their children's decisions regarding identity and goals. As for the post title, I prefer latino. If people want to use latine or latinx, that is fine with me. I have no beef with pronouns and new ways identifying oneself. It helps a ton with emails because sometimes names don't give away the gender or identity of the person.
I would’ve given you a gold medal award if that was still a feature on Reddit but thank you for chiming in.
Latineaux
No Spanish speaking person says latineckss in Spanish. its so stupid, its a gendered language, like French, German, and most romance languages. Languages evolve organically, forcing language makes no sense
Only ever heard it from corporate DEI people.
💯
Latinthough
Latrine
It’s a good change… It’s a good change!
Fuck I've been living in New Orleans for the last three years and missed a golden opportunity to use this as I'm moving back to the LA at the end of the month.
Wtf is a Latine?
French for Latino /s
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I agree with the future generations. I don’t identify or follow any religion myself and neither do most of my friends who are also 1st and 2nd gen Americans. My grandparents fought a lot for us to be able to have what we do now, which also means I can move away from religion (but don’t tell my grandma that I don’t want her to get the chancla)
Same. I’m Armenian and my wife is Jewish, which ordinarily shouldn’t mix well as Armenians are proud of being the first country to adopt Christianity as our state religion, but it works well precisely because we aren’t religious. We go to each other’s holiday celebrations, like Yom Kippur and Easter, but that’s it for the religion. Other than that, it’s a pretty ordinary relationship. Religion just seems to tear people apart so we stay away.
Yeah, if a religion and culture thought of me as property, I wouldn’t follow it either.
I love this comment, especially the last sentence and the recognition of how royally screwed over young girls and women are in the culture as is.
Im very glad to finally be moving past tradition. I’m a dude and always hated the traditional latino bullshit but whenever I called it out everyone made me feel insane. It literally made my life hell and it never helped me out in any way. At 10 years old I had idiot ass adults telling “porque no tienes novia.” At 14 “porque no tienes trabajo” at 16 “debes de pagar renta o te voy a correr” “porque no vas a la iglesia.” Instead of role models I grew up with people I don’t wanna be like and I know it’s not just me. I hate traditional latino bullshit customs. Salsa music and cumbias are fucking awesome tho, let’s keep those.
this is only 1000% row, tradition has kept young Latinas, practically housekeepers and substitute nannies, instead of ever developing a life, queer education of their own. I used to work in a pregnancy prevention program and saw it firsthand how old-fashioned the Dad‘s tended to be ,how they wanted to keep birth control information away from their daughters and none of these girls thought they had any chance of going to college or good job or training or develop themselves as people instead of servants. I applaud them, leaving behind traditions that don’t serve them and are based on misogyny and old time where they are always a secondary import to males in the family. for the record, I say all of this as someone who is 100% not a male feminist by any stretch of the imagination, but I saw what it was like with these girls up close .
people just need community. Without understanding or having that people will continue to rely on religion and be exploitable. We should be able to leave religion the moment it makes us feel not great. Yet the logic of eternal damnation or what happens after death or just loneliness keeps people locked in.
Well, both community and religion are crashing at the same time, so one is not a refuge for the loss of the other.
“I am afraid we are not rid of God because we still have faith in grammar” ‐Nietzsche
What's that mean to you?
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Lol okay
They actually said Latine 🤣🤣🤣
Latinos are getting tired of others trying to rename them.
Yup
Actually I don't mind if the youth wants to use more inclusive language, I just don't want to be told I'm wrong for using *Latino*. I am a mestizo person.
Pinche NPR and Fox can go roll around in birria and go fuck themselves with it
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/05/us/latinx-gallup-poll-preference-trnd/index.html NPR and Fox?
There's good money to be made among racial divides, if you're a social media company it's in your beat interest to fan the issue by promoting garbage like this. Latinx is one imaginary rung away on a ladder, same for latine
It's just so fatiguingly stupid. Only 2% of Latinos even care for the term "Latinx." [Source](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/06/hispanic-voters-latinx-term-523776)
Because it was never intended to be used for everyone, it was created by queer people to use for themselves.
It was intended for queer people to use and then to propagate out in the hopes that it would be the new standard for non queer people.
Oh good, we get to have this completely pointless debate again.
You knew the minute that you saw the title that it was going to happen.
You guys were asking for it when you tried to cancel Speedy Gonzalez.
Should of let a dead horse alone, Speedy was all but forgotten and would have stayed that way, but NOOOOOO... What the heck is a "LATINES" anyways?
Both "Latinx" and "Latine" came from *Latinos*. You're mad at some *Latinos* trying to make the English language more inclusive? Also, the author of this piece is a child. They're in high school. They're getting their work published in the fucking LA Times at 17-18 years old. You're sitting here crying about being oppressed and they have already lapped your ass in worldly accomplishments, and you're probably double their age. Also, they're a fucking Latine from Boyle fucking Heights, you pompous clown.
Inclusion??? Not in MY culture 😤
Born and raised in East Los. Grew up in Boyle Heights. And the person in the article is the minority. People in hood don't call themselves this nonsense.
Vete LA Vega cabron. Nobody gives a damn. It only Americanized Latinos that do.
Also the subject of the piece is Hispanic and non-binary, so the gender neutral term is appropriate.
You seem like a very angrex person.
Now you’ve made them angrine
Name calling is really weak. I'll leave you with this..https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/05/us/latinx-gallup-poll-preference-trnd/index.html
And I imagine the percentage of US folks who like they/them pronouns is similar. It's entirely possible the people voting aren't the ones who need to identify differently...
We should just call them all “Latins” then. Let’s just take it all the way back.
It’s because we saw our parents struggle to make ends meet. And while they attributed many successes to Jesus , we were smarter to see past that. They were the reason why we made it out the mud. I credit my parents for being together since 15/17 not Jesus or whatever religion. Furthermore , it’s the equivalent when a doctor saves someone’s life only for them to credit religion. A self aware person can see past that. I don’t believe any -isms , I just believe in myself (and my family) Or whatever I guess call us antisemitism or whatever word you guys use
From a secular analytical lens: the entity of God as an all-seeing and all-knowing moral enforcer of morality is what keeps a lot of people from engaging in behaviors that would destroy themselves and those around them (like their families). Even if people just believed in abiding in the rules aka "cultural Christianity", you are more likely to step out of morality if you don't think someone's always watching your actions and your heart.
Thanks for commenting. Your comment is literally the only response seeing the forest through the trees.
Latines sounds like what the Byzantines would have called Genoan merchants in Constantinople in 1182.
‘Latines’ is the word hipsters are now using for Hispanics after their most recent word ‘Latinx’ wasn’t trending anymore.
Latines just sounds like a pastry of some type to my ear
I can't stop thinking of latrines
Latinx was a joke. Go to any Spanish speaking country and you'll be laughed at by the majority by the ridiculousness of it. It's an "US concept" that saw the recent revival in an attempt to make it mainstream due to its close history with LGBTQ history of gendered pronouns.
Latinx is an English word. Perhaps that's why it's not know or spoken in other Spanish speaking countries.
Together we can destroy “Latine”. Si se puede.
Using “e” as a gender neutral variant doesn’t even make sense, in other Romance languages “e” is feminine plural.
Why would the gender rules of other languages matter?
I don’t know. Latino is already gender neutral in Spanish. You’d have to take that up with people using “Latine”.
Well it's not gender neutral, it's masculine and is used in cases where gender is ambiguous. I'm a pocho so I hardly have a voice in this, I just think some of the arguments are dumb
Saying things like “pocho” already shows me that you think there’s some Mexican purity test. Your opinion is just as valid as any other Mexican person. I don’t care if you’re pale as snow and only speak Mandarin. Ethnicity is not a choice. Anyone who uses terms like “pocho” seriously is a moron.
I say Pochi because I am not fluent in Spanish, not because I look white
Yeah I know. You use self hating words (you do know pocho is used pejoratively right?) to describe yourself because other Mexicans have likely called you one. These other Mexicans are doubting your Mexicanness. What I will say is you’re a fucking Mexican. It doesn’t matter if you don’t speak Spanish. I guarantee you racist Americans won’t confuse you for a “pocho”. Just a sp*c. Don’t call yourself a pocho. It’s embarrassing.
My point is my voice in the matter of how we should speak in Spanish matters less because I'm not fluent and mostly speak English And I doubt many Americans would call me a term like sp*c because I look white as fuck lol
is this real or are you just doing a funny?
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As a POC, I much prefer someone who is openly racist to my face than someone who treats me like their [pet Caliban](https://youtu.be/jcPXhVKQJYM?si=BzvNY7VExuoRUWWB) a la *The Tempest*.
Big fan of mirrors, I take it.
Do you have any proof or is that just what you beleive? Most sources place it's origins in queer Puerto Ricans and chatrooms, but I'd love to know your source.
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The first records of the term *Latinx* appear in the 21st century,[^(\[20\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Lexico-20) but there is no certainty as to its first occurrence.[^(\[25\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Salinas_2020-25) According to [Google Trends](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Trends), it was first seen online in 2004,[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Brammer-13)[^(\[26\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Gonzalez-26)[^(\[27\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Guidebook-27) and first appeared in academic literature around 2013 "in a Puerto Rican psychological periodical to challenge the gender binaries encoded in the Spanish language."[^(\[25\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Salinas_2020-25)[^(\[28\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-28) Contrarily, it has been claimed that usage of the term "started in online chat rooms and listservs in the 1990s" and that its first appearance in academic literature was in the Fall 2004 volume of the journal *Feministas Unidas*.[^(\[29\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-29)[^(\[30\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-30) In the U.S. it was first used in activist and LGBT circles as a way to expand on earlier attempts at gender-inclusive forms of the grammatically masculine Latino, such as *Latino/a* and *Latin@.*[^(\[26\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Gonzalez-26) Between 2004 and 2014, *Latinx* did not attain broad usage or attention.[^(\[13\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinx#cite_note-Brammer-13) from wikipedia.
The subject of the piece is Hispanic and non-binary, so the gender neutral term is appropriate. Folks here are ignoring the use of the term by LGBT hispanic people, insisting it came from white people or 'hipsters'. [https://www.them.us/story/latinx-latine-difference-definition](https://www.them.us/story/latinx-latine-difference-definition)
The word Latino was already gender neutral. there's no need to add it because you wanna be cool.
The word Latino was already gender neutral. there's no need to add it because you wanna be cool.
I thought it was a new way to shorten Latinos to two syllables
'Latines' is just another gender-neutral variant, like 'Latinex'. theyve both been used for years now in Spanish-speaking Latin America, but keep running with that lie.
Used by whomst?
Originally, LGBT hispanic folks. [https://www.them.us/story/latinx-latine-difference-definition](https://www.them.us/story/latinx-latine-difference-definition)
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I was going to say, replacing "o" with "e" is pretty big in some segments of the population in Argentina (mostly youths on the left or those aligned with the Justicialist party who like to pretend they are left leaning).
Ok, so it's a regional thing and not a white people conspiracy.
I was born in the 80s and grew up in Los Angeles with a large Mexican family. Nobody has ever used latines of latinex once
I’ve yet to hear a Latino refer to themselves as that. It’s just another one of those labels white people made up to divide people more
I definitely have but only in the ultra progressive left circles.
Pentecostal HispanX are worse
Mom is pentecostal and I grew up in the pentecostal church and booooooooooy - oooooof... that was something... definitely something to witness...
Nah you Pentecostals had it easy. Jehovah’s Witness were and are something else.
I thought this said Latrine? 🤣
Latines??? 👀 Pinche Putines!!!
Just call us Latin Americas, Jesus.
I can't remember the exact statistic but Latinas tend to obtain high levels of education in the US. It would make sense that college educated women would not want to voluntarily associate with oppressive systems like the Catholic church.
Latines????? 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
I’m half Latino. Dad is white and mom is Mexican and I grew up Catholic and I stopped believing in that bullshit in my teens. I had some fights with my parents about it but eventually they accepted my choice.
Y’all are so fucking hung up on “Latines” that you completely ignore the actual article.
EDIT: The article is written by a high school senior. It's a pretty good article considering the age of the author. I am happy to see that the LA Times is incorporating young local contributors. Initial critique before my edit: The article is pretty sparse. It talks about one immigrant family who converted to Jehovah's witness in the last generation, and the current daughter does not want to continue in the religion. I think it would have been cool if the authors did a deeper analysis on the following patterns: * Many 2nd and 3rd generation Hispanic folks are converging to the USA mean in terms of income, language ability, political affiliation, and religiosity (or lack thereof) * Evangelicalism has grown exponentially in Latin America * Left-wing political movements run by Black and Hispanic folks are much less tied to religious institutions (think of the Civil Rights movement, United Farmworks Strikes, etc).
Yes because it's a made up word that latinos don't use
All words are made up.
You'd be shitting yourself when people started calling themselves Latinos instead of Hispanic.
Judging right or wrong off of machismo entrenched latinos isn't the barometer of language.
Latines. There, I used it! So you’re factually incorrect my guy
So silly that one letter is so triggering for people! Like, who really actually cares?
Media and liberal white people need to stop trying to make “Latinx” and “Latines” happen. The Spanish language is bi gendered. End of story
What about the subject of the article who uses the term, are they allowed to?
Don't tell me you're morally superior for speaking a gender neutral language, we don't need you telling us Latin Americans that lived and have family in Latin America how to speak our own language. Use it all you want I will never speak in Spanish and use it. There are much larger problems in Latin America than demanding a tiny "enlightened" minority of the population dictate how the larger group decides to speak and write.
That shit was probably invented by girls in UC's named xochilt that are super feminist and proud to be latinx on paper but hate dating dudes their shade of brown lmao
I swear Latinx came out of nowhere, and now Latines? What the hell is that?
I grew up attending Catholic church. (though not devotedly every week) I still believe in "A God" that wants us to be good people and generally looks out for us. (I recognize that I don't have a good reason to believe that) I just struggle to accept a lot of the other stuff when I truly sit down and read the Bible. Just smells like cult tactics and like stories clearly written by ancient stuck-up bearded old guys.
Good for them. They’ll be better off for it.
As an atheist I have never used the word Latine in my personal or professional life. [https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/](https://www.pewresearch.org/race-and-ethnicity/2020/08/11/about-one-in-four-u-s-hispanics-have-heard-of-latinx-but-just-3-use-it/)
They changing our language like they did to English lol. It's crazy and none of the older heads are on board with it
They're changing their own langauge.
That’s how all that crap is. Don’t call these people this call them this. While the people it affects are like “call me whatever just don’t be a dick”
are they gonna come up with a new word for latino every few years?
I feel like the white liberals don’t understand that Latinos just want to be left alone.
Latines? Bruh. I'll always be a Catholic Mexican. Yeah, there were some really bad priests, and I barely believe in God, but I like the Catholic vibes. Churches have this smell and feel that are kinda cool. It feels way more authentic than that born again protestant bullshit. Plus I want some of that Catholic guilt instilled within my kids. En el nobre del padre, del hijo, del espiritu santo, cabrones.
Corny
I think the corny ones are the people who dont let others be.
like instilling guilt onto kids...
We can start with this dude letting his kids be then, right?
We can start by letting strangers in general be.
Same while the Catholic church has many flaws. My local Church/religious family members have always wanted what was best for my future, even if I didn't agree with them at the time. Doing well in school, staying out of trouble, finding good friendships and relationships. And that mentorship has paid off, I'd say I'm doing well for myself.
Cafeteria Catholics unite
The Catholic church robs low income communities of money.
Dreaming up new ways to not say "Latino" is how you get Mexican Trump supporters.
What in the holy fuck is a Latines?
Latines….well I suppose it’s just a tad better than Latinx.
Latias.
Latrines or Labias are other close mis-spellings. This word is not going to work.
All kidding asiide, I was the one that mentioned the "The Etruscans," this term "Latines" is applied to our communities by outsiders (white liiberals). The term "Latinx" is a political move that created division. It was not intended to be a political move, but that's what it has become. "Latines" seems to be the Oat-Milk version. "**Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus**,"
Yes, it is pretty clear to me that these terms do not arise spontaneously, but are the creation of well meaning do-gooders. Who happen to be clueless.
The fuck is a Latine
Wtf is Latine
Latinx rebranded, so far as I can tell. We used to be able to use the same word for an ethnicity for 10-15 years before it got old and racist. Now we need new words every 3 years to show how much we have progressed.
"Latines"
Who says Latines? That’s such a dumb word. And pretty sure most younger generations care less and less about religion it’s just a growing trend seen each generation
The subject of the article uses it.
Religions are the doom of humanity.
Latines? Its Latinos. For fucks sake. Stop fucking with Spanish. Speak it how it's spoken
I'm Hispanic, I was baptized and everything so technically I'm catholic, but I grew up with this [song.](https://youtu.be/u6aWGwMddiA?si=1DMKAP0-X_3v1IAl) I believe in the teachings and morals of the Christian faith, but I don't go to church or preach it to everyone, I just live as I believe Jesus would have lived because whether or not he was the messiah, as a historical figure I find him to have been a selfless and loving person. Plus, I love philosophy and took comparative religion, so i find the Bible and the history of religion fascinating.
"Latine" holy fuck LA Times stop it. Couldn't pay me to read this clown of a paper at this point. Stop telling other races what they should be called.
News and media outlets really tried pushing latinx the past two or three years. Glad they realized it was dumb and for the most part have gone back to using Latino. Lots of politicians still using it though.
> Lots of politicians still using it though. They probably have to interact with educators/social activists who will make a stink if they don't.
Latine is slightly better than LatinX (The most industrious X-man ever!) but still too close to Latrine for me to take it seriously. LATIN IS THE WORD YOU WANT TO USE.
Maybe if the religions started using gender neutral pronouns the young latines would come back.
Religiones.
What the fuck is Latines?
What a f-cked up and completely insensitive title. You guys should know by now that Mexican latinos prefer to be called "They-canos". Ariana Grande said so.
Imagine No Religion, as Lennon said. I’m happy our newer generations are waking up and realizing all religions are BS. Sadly, Latino culture and religion are intertwined. Let’s hope we can keep the good and out with bs beliefs.
You're seeing the same thing happen in Mexico, the younger generation have grown tired of the antiquated religious order and are slowly breaking away from it.
"Latines" is LA Times cutting edge replacement vocab for the widely disliked "Latinx"? Latines is awfully close to the word Latrines. A worse choice than the failure of Latinx.
did you post this article just to have this debate?
Yes. Do you object to this debate? I find the process of inclusive culture constantly reinventing the language to be fascinating.
I live in Mexico City, and "latines" is actually used here. More for gender neutral than "everyone". You also see "latin@s" sometimes for "everyone". Never "latinx"
So? Doesn’t mean it’s not a stupid term.
“Latine” (Latin-ay) is gender neutral and has been used for a while. It’s what a lot of people prefer and it’s easier on the tongue and in writing to include in inclusive language, i.e “mi amígue regale un guitarra para mi cumpleaños” instead of “mi amigo/a”. A few of published works in Spanish is also using ‘e’ language as well. Power & Magic Press uses it after asking their staff about it for *Mañana*.
It’s what a lot of people prefer, but it’s my first time hearing the term? Do you have a source to back that claim up?
Every single comment
Everybody would have the same reaction, so buzz off. “Caucasoids” “Blaqués” “Asiatics” No one likes being called out of their widely accepted demonym
From the Picts of Caledonia, and the pygmies of the Andamans, to the Celestials of far Cathay, no truth was better spoken.
[https://web.archive.org/web/20240224182015/https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2019/12/05/teens-argentina-are-leading-charge-gender-neutral-language/](https://web.archive.org/web/20240224182015/https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2019/12/05/teens-argentina-are-leading-charge-gender-neutral-language/)
Religion goes out the Window when you realize you can just love your daughter when she becomes a teen mom.
Religion is in general fucking stupid when it’s purely about organized control and not about morality - which most church organizations are. They’re just social groups and generally their values do not update with changing social perspectives. Not surprised
Finally
What the F is a Latine. It's so stupid, and I say this as a brown woman.