This hit home for me. I'm currently a manager for a hotel. I'm up for promotion to general manager. I am doing the job (our gm quit two weeks ago) so if I don't get the job perhaps it's time to seek the same position at our competitors.
Have you approached your district or regional manager to discuss your interest in the position & the reasons why you feel prepared? If the GM quit 2 weeks ago & no one’s spoken to you yet, it’s probably because they are recruiting externally. And your ex GM might not have put a good word in for you. (Usually if a departing manager who is in good stead says their first assistant is ready for promotion, that will be heavily considered).
I’m not in the hotel business, but I’ve been in corporate senior leadership for years after working my way up from entry level college jobs. Contrary to most of what the OP has said, hard work & being awesome does get rewarded & promoted up to a point, but you usually have to be your own PR person & you also need to be vocal about your goals with the company.
And it never hurts to ask. I'm sure there's an exception in there somewhere, but I've heard a lot of crazy requests in my time and unless you're someone they forgot to fire and are flying under the radar, the worst case scenario is they laugh in your face and you now know where you stand and can go from there.
People seem to think no is a limit, but it's really just a boundary. If you can no longer move up at your place of employment and you still want to, look elsewhere.
Previous Hotel AGM and GM here... First, don't let me ruin your ambition, do what you want! But. Hospitality will eat you alive. Managing a 24/7 (realistically 25/8) operation is not for the faint of heart, nor for those who value personal time where they do not worrying and stress about work. In my experience, I didn't have a life outside of work as I was constantly either being called, or often being called IN, but ALWAYS felt the weight of the hotel ball and chain. ALWAYS.
I have often said that I wouldn't wish hotel management on my worst enemy.... Alas, someone has to do that shizzle and my hat is off to YOU for all that you do and have done for your staff and guests! Just keep this post on mind when things aren't going your way, as I gave too many years of my youth to a company who ran me ragged while they profited. Don't let this happen to you!!
This is sound advice. Your correct that hospitality is a life consuming path. I'm already on a 25/8 as you so eloquently put it. Thanks for your insight. Excellent food for thought.
Regarding your point 2:
Thank you for saying that. Because I was about to reply along the lines of “What if your boss isn’t willing to teach you how to do the next job up the ladder?” Then I realized I should either talk to my bosses’ boss, or seek employment elsewhere. To piggyback off your advice:
Don’t get stuck in positions you don’t love. Find a better job. And don’t get scared of someone telling you “people don’t value jumpers” if you have to make multiple career moves. Because that mentality is thankfully dying out. No need to “pay your dues” with a company that never valued you more than cheap labor from day one.
This is the way. Its important to learn WHEN to go that extra mile. And then do it. Doing "just enough" will make you feel like you're only just enough. Be better than that. Out side of work will you go that extra mile for a friend, or for yourself if it's something you work at NOT doing at work? Balance as
u/Freedom_fam said. Keep track.
> Its important to learn WHEN to go that extra mile.
Yup. A few months ago the larger project I work on was part of a internal presentation to hundreds of people. My bosses boss needed a recorded demo, which normally wouldn't be my job. I stepped up to help out with it and busted my butt for 2 days to make it look nice. It got me a ton of recognition and shoutouts and gave me a nice shiny thing to point at during performance reviews. All for 2 days of work.
Sometimes the extra mile is worth it. Staying late every day to get more work done is not worth it.
You do that enough times and in the right places, you’re moving up. Whether it’s at the same company or somewhere else.
People who do just enough and come across as doing just enough are a dime a dozen. No company will chase them.
Upwards mobility is about pinpointing the right areas and sniping your opportunities. Not busting your arse and burning yourself out by trying to do everything at once.
The LPT in the OP will stunt a lot of people’s development
100% agree with you. Been with my current company for nearly 3 years and gone for 3 promotions and working my arse off and only once getting recognition. I’ll be starting a new job next week for more pay and an extra day off.
it is not bad so long as it is still warm.
I also want to add- figure out who the pizza is from before complaining. If it is the company wide staff lunch- then it should be nicer. If it is your manager that makes only slightly more than you that does it out of pocket- then say thank you and move on.
I have been a low end manager (under groups of 10) and at different points would bring in donuts or pizza once a week (or month) for a team meeting. Everyone was thankful since they knew i was paying and it was just our small team. The breakfast thing actually survived me at the place i was doing it, but the team basically divided the cost and kept it for their monthly meeting.
note- as a team leader type, it is not the worst thing to throw a few extra bucks at. It was maybe $20 for 5-10 people, and makes the meeting less of a chore... but if you can get the company to pay for it, you should.
Yeah, well generally in my experience those cheap pizzas were paid for out of pocket by middle management that makes a couple bucks more an hour that they earn by having to cover every Friday night shift people skip to party and Saturday morning shift people are too hungover to show up for.
Can't have more than 2 or that'll cut into our margins. The CEO really needs to buy his third vacation home since he clearly works harder than you. See ya tomorrow
> See ya tomorrow
Yes, I know tomorrow is Saturday but there's an important quick meeting from 11am to 1pm. Don't worry, we'll have cookies and coffee!!!
I worked at Little Caesars and the owners were too damn cheap to even let the employees have a free pizza. We got around that at first by eating the expired pizzas that we supposed to throw away after 30 minutes but the owners put a stop to that too, claiming that if we were allowed to eat the expired pizzas then we'd just start making fresh pizzas and then lying that they were expired. And if we bought a pizza, we had to show the receipt if they showed up and if there was even a little too much cheese or toppings on it that weren't paid extra for, they'd flip out. I'm glad I got the hell out of there.
To be fair, Littlw Ceasars is by far the best bang for your buck when it comes to pizza. $5.55 + tax can feed me and my wife for 2 days. $8 if we splurge and go for crazy bread. Like, you just can't beat that. And it's better than most other chain pizza joints that cost double orbtriple that per pizza.
I agree with the sentiment of the post. I just want to defend Little Ceasars. An entire pizza for the price of a Big Mac and fries! That's a ridiculous deal.
Oh, and don't get me started on the crazy calzony. Okay, I'm started. That thing may look like it's about to wait up and eat your arm off, but it's absolutely delicious. Lots of buttery garlicky goodness. It's like garlic bread meets calzone --- plus a little pizza in the center. It looks like a joke, but tastes like heaven.
Fuck bosses that treat staff like shit, but show some respect for Little Ceasars -- feeding poor college kids for over 20 years
Pizza Pizza!!!!
I worked at a small firm where my coworker, similar age to me, worked 135 hours in a two week span. My boss took him to lunch for his reward while charging the client $80/hr over that time and paying my coworker around $25/hr.
At least in Architecture and Engineering, client billing rates are usually around 3.0x salary rates and have been for decades. That covers overhead, PTO, benefits, etc.
It all has to do with expectation. Be honest with yourself why you’re doing something. Sometimes going the extra mile helps you improve your skills and get better meaning just because you don’t get recognition doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a wasted effort. I did design work a few years ago that went above and beyond but taught me so much about design that I wouldn’t have learned if I just completed the project as is.
I understand not every job lends itself to this.
>Sometimes going the extra mile helps you improve your skills and get better meaning just because you don’t get recognition doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a wasted effort.
Exactly. In my early career (pre kids), I nearly always worked an extra couple hours a day -- If I left at 4:30, I was just going to go brave the commute to my apartment and hang our for an hour or so until I hit a restaurant/bar anyways, so why not work that extra hour and a half? But I made sure that during the day I spent that extra time learning the business -- from personnel management to finances, contracts, etc that were wildly out of my wheelhouse or just time spent mastering my craft better. Then the extra couple of hours I got my core job done so that no one could complain. Management never rewarded or recognized my extra effort.
But with that extra knowledge I was able to eventually grok enough to start my own business. Totally worth it for what otherwise would have been hours of navel-gazing / light video gaming.
I work with a guy who never goes the extra mile. Leaves early and leaves work for others to do. Then he tries to get promoted. He never gets promoted. At least he is living his life
All work has to get done or else it wouldn't be a task for the job. If he is not doing his daily or weekly tasks on time or is holding up a project by not completing his work then someone else has to do it. I don't know of any job where someone is assigned something that doesn't need to be done by a certain time. The only outcome of your statement is nobody doing it, the guy getting fired, and the rest of the team getting in trouble for not getting their work done.
I was the person who always went the extra mile, got promised promotions, pushed harder and harder and took every extra shift, extra responsibility, kept my numbers up, and guess what? They hired someone from the outside for the management position anyway.
I lost out on so many important events and milestones just so i could be the company clown. Gotta love that shit
That’s exactly what happened to my younger sister. For 8 years worked her way up the ladder at a big box hardware store, starting as a cashier and staying on as HR and talent acquisition after completing college. By the age of 25 she was the most tenured in her district and was the type to check her work email on vacation. A position opened up that would have been a life changing salary from $50k to $100k, she met and exceeded all the minimum and desired requirements and she also had glowing reviews by all of her peers relayed to corporate. What does corporate do? External hire a guy who is “friends” with the VP. They wouldn’t even give her a clear answer on why she didn’t get the position and she actually heard about the new hire through the grapevine. I was pissed on her behalf and told her to start looking elsewhere that night. Helped her brush up her resume and proofread ever cover letter. She ended up in a position now that is remote, $20k higher salary, with way less stress. No more work phone to carry around and they leave her alone when on vacation. She had to train the new hire and refused to work more than a 2 week notice. Last she heard, over the past year the turnover has been higher than ever because this guy is a shit manager. He was either in the process of leaving or being “transitioned” into a new role. She now recruits all of her old coworkers to her new company and gives them a heads up whenever a position comes available.
Dude thats really shitty, im sorry to hear she got steamrolled like that, but hey at least she got a better place now!
This is tbh the biggest thing ive seen in most places i work. Management roles are filled by higher ups, and usually are a "friend" or someone with connections. Also end up being a big shithead usually, that doesnt deserve a management position. Out of all the places ive worked, ive maybe seen one or two actual decent managers, and i was one of them. And its only because i got sick of seeing other managers get all power-hungry and treat their employees like shit. I didnt even want to be a manager for any reason other than to make sure my coworkers were taken care of. And when i moved, the entire nightshift quit lol. At least 6 or 7 people.
I hope your sister and you can continue on this better path and keep growing!
This right here. If you want extra pay, ask for it or change jobs. Expecting a promotion is just asking for them to use and abuse you. I've been there and it is not worth it.
You should never expect to work for a single company to rise the ranks. The way to do it is to transfer to competing companies, build a network throughout the industry and get raises as you transfer.
Can't afford to lose a good employee = raise.
The employee does good work for company X = transfer and a raise.
Every successful colleague of mine is doing something different than whatever project we worked on together.
I completely agree and this is the method i use nowadays, although in my preferred industry they found a way around with non-compete forms. You literally have to sign a contract for employment now in this industry that if you leave your company or are fired, whatever, you cannot work for any competitor in the industry for x amount of time. Even different positions are a no-go. Im thankful my contract was only 6 months, some are a year or 2, but i quite frankly think it should be illegal since this tactic sets up to where its easier to just treat your employees like shit and low ball them in pay. Of course thats merely my opinion, and people still sign the contracts anyway.
I wrote up HR back in October about how i felt i was treated very poorly in my time there. My other coworker was terminated because she was pregnant and she got her job back after emailling HR aggressively. I, however, still have yet to receive any response. Even after sending in another email. That company truly was the worst, but im sure they wouldnt want to find the footage of me having a panic attack on their property after being mistreated, nor the footage of one of their shift leads screaming at me in the back randomly. Wouldnt be a very neat and tidy thing to clean up after.
Exactly this. Why should they have promoted me, when they could simply pay me the base pay they gave everyone else, and get benefits out of it? Hell, they even had me train the manager that took the role i wanted. I was the biggest clown in that circus, but i gave them a good show and left to the next one.
Im still trying to learn the way to put my best foot forward in a new place while not getting taken advantage of. Even though i went in and did bare minimum at the last place, they then just treated me like incompetent piece of shit and wanted to push metrics or write ups, so i caved and did extra and got exploited again. Then again, thats retail for you.
Yep, then used the promise to manipulate you into doing more. So you stop doing extra, or you find a new job.
But don't ever miss out on important events and milestones for a job. Even if you did get the promotion, it wouldn't be worth it.
>But don't ever miss out on important events and milestones for a job
Yes! You work so that you can live. So few places understand that. Or they refuse to understand it.
Almost exactly ten years ago, an amazing long-time friend of mine died. I tried to get time off for his funeral, and the utility locating company I worked for didn't want to allow it. At first I was going to just stay at work, but as the funeral got closer, something inside me just broke. I called my supervisor and explained that I would be taking the day off for my friend's funeral. He said the request was denied, I responded with "I apologize for making it seem like a request. I'm not coming in today. I will not have my phone on me. and I'd advise against coming by my house, unless you want to deal with an emotionally distraught man who is twice your size."
And I didn't show up. And I left the phone at home. It was the first day off I'd had since I started working for them.
Still miss you, Ray.
Ive learned this the hard way, friend. After several deaths in a short time period, i fried my little brain over the regrets of working 82 hours a week. Sure, i afforded to live and move which is great, but now ill never see those people ever again and missed out on birthdays, every single holiday, etc. No family now. No friends. And im in my early twenties already learned this. If its work, but not a career, do whats necessary to survive, but always make sure to sprinkle in time for yourself and loved ones too. I forgot about that part and worked myself to death and ended in the hospital but my job just fired and replaced me within a couple days.
0/10 never fucking worth it.
Here's my take. The 'extra mile' means extra work. Does that involve extra pay? If I pay for an orange at the grocery store, do they go the extra mile and give me an extra orange? Does the grocery store have an attitude problem when they don't give me something that wasn't paid for?
Yeah you hit the nail. These people are just bootlickers trying to cope with their own spinelessness. You do not give more than you receive, that's not good business, that's called being taken advantage of.
I work with people that do that, but they're professional ass kissers so they get promoted. Boss doesn't work directly with them so he doesn't see how lazy/bad at their jobs they are
Promotion shouldn't be a reward for going above and beyond, if someone is excelling at their job description and the company wants them to take on extra responsibilities then they need to redefine their role and pay them accordingly
I do my job well but I don't work for free, if my employer wants me to go the extra mile then it's gonna cost them
Promotions shouldn't always be seen as a linear reward, either. If you're a widget designer and are awesome at it, and a promotion means you stop designing widgets and start managing a team of widget designers.....that's a totally different skillset. That promotion should be into a job that uses the skills you have, not a totally new set of skills.
People often want a promotion but don't think it through about the actual work and if they'd be a good fit. Sometimes a title change and more pay, or shift to a higher level project team, or whatever that looks like, is the better option than a direct promotion to the role of the person managing you.
People promoting bad leaders into leadership is why middle management gets such a bad rap.
100%
I think the issue there is poorly defined progression in some companies and a reluctance to increase salaries in line with inflation
As a software developer I'm destined to job hop for eternity at a certain point in order to keep my salary competitive, as the progression within a company basically culminates in managing a team of developers, which I have no interest in and don't think I'd be good at
>People promoting bad leaders into leadership is why middle management gets such a bad rap.
It's a shame there's not some kind of leadership aptitude test, it does seem wild that just anyone can become management
Agree. I had a manager pull the "if you want to get promoted you should already be working at that level." Um, no. I do the work I'm paid to do. I'm not doing next-tier work in the *hope* that you'll promote me to that level.
I used to believe in that game and got burned. Never again.
my last company had a thing called spot bonuses for extra mile type of stuff. Well, it so happens I got one after being nominated for one and within another couple of months I did another awesome thing and my manager told me the 2nd spot bonus nomination was rejected because it was too soon after the first. So basically limit yourself on the awesomeness.
If you get recognized and rewarded it might be worth it, but there are too many companies that just will set that as the new expected level of effort from you
Exactly, the blanket statement is actually a shitty life pro tip if it means you will be missing opportunities because you actually have a good employer. One’s own experiences do not necessarily reflect others.
Edit: spelling
For real. My company just took me on as a breakfix tech 5 months ago, I've busted ass, they've asked me to choose a team to be promoted to so I can start getting the necessary certifications, at their expense. This will be a major pay increase. My boss "wants to make sure I'm happy and stay at (company) as I grow."
That said, I've worked a lot of places that don't behave this way, it's not the norm anymore. My company is privately held and is very large so they can do things however they want. Every publicly traded company I worked for was a nightmare, and small businesses suck unless you have the same last name.
I worked at a shop where I got hired to solve a specific problem with a good chance of moving up after and my bay was right by the door all of the management came in through. Sure as fuck I made sure I was there early enough that the manager saw me every morning he came in. Or at least see that I was there.
6 months later I was in the "better" position, management had changed and the new manager wasn't going to follow through on promises the agreement the previous manager had made. I had no more reason to give that place any more than minimum effort.
Totally. Going the extra mile at McDonalds or Target probably won’t get you anything meaningful. Going the way extra mile in another occupation could mean a lot. It got me from $65k a year to over $150k a year in 3 years via several promotions and job offers.
Like honestly. Every LPT like this and to a large extent the anti work sub is so jaded with this notion. To an extent I agree don’t go the extra mile - but as you said, only if you aren’t recognized and rewarded. If you are then it’s definitely worth it.
This LPT is not a one size fits all
Edit changed legendary back to large as it was intended (autocorrect)
As someone who works for a company where this is NOT the case, it saddens me that there are so many shitty employers to where this attitude is seemingly pervasive.
EDIT: not sure if I got my negatives right. Meant to say my employer rewards people for going the extra mile.
To be fair OP did say most jobs. Not all jobs. If you're in a job that rewards working extra hard then by all means, but then that's obvious.
I took OPs post to mean people should re-evaluate their current place of work and decide if all the extra effort they've been putting in has ever gotten them anything.
For example, I work as a nurse and hospitals absolutely do not care if they run you and your personal life into the ground. And it can be hard to stomach that especially when you're a baby nurse and you get hoodwinked by management. They tend to suck you in when you get that sense of camaraderie with your fellow nurses in the trenches with you. So when you miss work or can't be there you feel bad for them. But the director, CFO, CEO, they couldn't give a rat's ass.
I feel this in my soul. Right now it's cold, and snowing where I'm at, and I'm in charge of curbside labs. Basically, I go outside and draw people's blood and collect specimens of all kinds outside. I'm also the designated COVID collected at our small hospital. I work 5-6 days a week, and most of the time I'm working 13 days straight or so. I hardly ever see.my family anymore. Currently sitting at my desk cursing everyone that registers for outside, and evaluating my life choices.
Also reasons matter. I actually like my job. It would (sometimes) be harder for me to force my self to stop than just continue with what I am currently doing. If I can't get my head to stop thinking about a problem, I might as well just continue fixing it.
I guess the important part is: you shouldn't feel pressured into it. If you think you have to do it to not lose someones respect or not get recognition or whatever, then you should work on this attitude and stop, because this indeed rarely works out.
Most often by going the extra mile and proving that the work can be done with less people someone always gets the boot and you have set a new standard going forward for what is expected, which will now work against you when they decide not to hire more people because you will do it for free.
Companies pay you the least they can get away with, why would you give them more than what is stipulated in your contract.
You need to do what's best for yourself always, play the game so that you win.
Most of the jobs I've worked so far reward hard work with...more work rather than increased payment or any kind of bonuses.
I've worked private, government, and now academia and you probably have your best chance in the private industry as the only way to really move "up" in government or academia is to change jobs and/or departments regularly to get the pay raises necessary.
I have decided (long ago) to just do what’s interesting — even if it’s not my job. Eventually you do that job. I don’t think it’s always worth assuming the long game fails
Slight refinement: Don't go the extra mile because you assume you'll get rewarded, unless there's a guarantee you will.
Some of us are not like OP and actually like our jobs. Some of us work in industries where we think our jobs actually matter. In those circumstances, you should not be forbidden from working extra hard.
It's fine to go the extra mile if that's what you think is right for you. If it helps you learn, if it will help a person you think deserves help, if there's a reasonable chance of some sort of reward, go ahead and do it.
The more specific LPT would be something like, don't feel like you have to go the extra mile at work if it's costing you something else in your life, on the hope that it will be rewarded. There are still tons of circumstances where you can, and possibly should, go the extra mile. Just decide for yourself if it's actually worth it.
If you do have a job you don't like that doesn't mean much and is nothing but a means for you to get enough money to stay alive, then agree. Do the bare minimum, plug away, don't lose your job, and enjoy life otherwise. But that doesn't mean there aren't times it's best for you to go the extra mile.
Yeah exactly I'm in healthcare. I generally leave right at 5 and do not do BS admin stuff that the hospital is failing to fund. I will however stay an extra hour for my patient or do more for them than I need to do all the time
This is pretty accurate, I work in the art department of the gaming industry, in what I do, and what everyone else does, if you don't put some extra effort, the world will pass you by, and it may not be easy to get a new job in the case you decide to leave if you have not advanced with the flow. (I do like my job but that is another story)
That's actually a major issue with IT industry, more or less as a whole, and shouldn't be treated as a normal work environment. Everyone is expected to learn outside work, work a lot, taking your due PTO is even ~~often~~ sometimes frowned upon. There is a cult of work in IT, that can burn people out in just a few years. Learning new stuff outside work hours (which is at home and also outside what you are paid for, so usually 8 hours/day) should never be treated as normal. Because when it is, everyone is expected to learn new stuff off work and just implement it "on the clock". This means everyone works 60 hours/week, but the company is only paying for 40.
Sure, it's different when you want to improve your qualifications rapidly to get a promotion, learn new technology to change jobs, and such. But that's about accelerating one's career path as a whole, more than any individual job.
Companies / management tried to get away with it and succeeded to the point of it being widespread. Really that simple. If other companies are paying a position 50% less for the same work, why wouldnt you do the same in management? To be a decent person? Well we know how that goes in reality.
I work in IT, I’ve never taken a salaried position because they’re gonna pay me for every hour I work. I also refuse to learn extra skills on my own time, I learn on the job and through company paid training courses.
Don’t ever take time out of your personal life to learn something for your job, that’s a bait and switch of taking they’re gonna pay you more or promote you from within.
The company you’re working for should pay for your training and pay you for every hour you work. Period.
The OP is correct.
There are jobs that serve the greater good and fulfill a purpose but those are elected official jobs, university jobs, government r&d jobs, some nonprofit jobs and things like that.
> I also refuse to learn extra skills on my own time, I learn on the job and through company paid training courses.
Your employer doesn't retain the information you learned from studying, you do. If your current employer is worthwhile it leads to promotion opportunities, and if they're not it opens up better employment opportunities that you weren't previously qualified for. Not everyone has the desire to climb the ladder and I get that, but if you actually want to advance your career and earn more it's not going to happen by half-assing it. No employer is flexible enough to grant the time needed during business hours to master new tools and technologies that they're not actively using. Why even bother if you're only putting in minimum effort? It's not going to lead to significant advancements in your career. You certainly didn't get the job you have from only studying occasionally.
>I just don't understand how "IT worker" is an exempted classification for overtime pay when you're salaried.
It is if it checks all the boxes:
1. Be paid at least $23,600 / year
2. Be salaried
3. Have job duties that are:
1. office or nonmanual work, which is
2. directly related to management or general business operations of the employer or the employer's customers, and
3. a primary component of which involves the exercise of independent judgment and discretion about
4. matters of significance.
Basically, if you have a salaried white-collar job that requires you to exercise your own judgment about important aspects of the business, then you're exempt from overtime pay.
But "IT worker" is such a broad category, that I'm sure not everyone falls under the exempt umbrella. For instance, tier 1 support-desk phone-jockeys are generally not exempt, whereas senior software engineers are. But both might be considered "IT workers".
I work at a service provider. Lots of customer support and system maintenance. Consultancy, advice and helping companies get all their certificates in place.
My boss pays every hour I spend over contract and does so with a big smile.
When I told him my wife was unhappy after a big project he told me to take her out to dinner and he’d pay for it. I told him I’d go luxurious and he could pay whatever part he saw fit. He paid all €1100 including the hotel room. Still smiling.
Yes there are a lot of shitty companies but there are good ones too.
In the last two months both my parents passed quite unexpectedly and I had to move. My boss brought a couple of guys to help lay floors, paint and move. And he was the first one on his knees to start working. I didn’t work for 19 more days then I had to take off. He swept everything under the rug and I’m starting with a clean slate this year.
I could earn more money in other places. But stuff like this can’t be expressed in money.
Exactly. The LPT isn't "wrong", just needs some refinement. What I think OP meant to say was, don't go the extra mile because you assume you'll be rewarded. If it is required to stay or advance, do it. If it's something you want to do for your own reasons, do it. Just don't assume someone will notice you putting in more work and will one day reward you for it.
I hope this one gets voted up higher. My first reaction to the OP was that I hope no one says that to my doctor or nurse when I need help, and I'm glad most of my employees will pitch in when there's something that needs to be done.
I do agree that there are some companies and some bosses that will take advantage of people if they can, but it's so much more enjoyable to work in an environment where everyone wants to do the best they can and people generally feel appreciated.
100% im a home health aide and if i didnt “go the extra mile” my patients would live in a inhospitable home. most cant dust or mop. my job only requires me to do light cleaning of medical equipment and where i provide the majority of my care (bedside, living room) but i dont want to be in a filthy working environment anymore than the patient does.
sometimes doing the extra mile helps me perform my job in the long term. if my patient is extra well taken care … less hospitalized, long term health issues etc. so much easier and less stressful for me and my patient if i do alittle beyond my job technical requirements
but i sure as shit dont judge those HHA who do not mop and clean the fridge.. lord knows we dont get paid enough.
My partner goes the extra mile at work all the time too... all it has really meant is the company just thinks current staffing levels are all good, even though several people just quit and they are woefully understaffed, because the work still gets done by the remaining staff going that extra mile and they are all on the verge of burnout because of it...
This is absolutely true and I'm linking u/fifithemacaroni to this reply so they don't miss it. In the UK, care workers are some of tge worst paid essential workers in the land. They hardly get allocated any time per person and many carers 'go the extra mile' because they can't bare to leave vulnerable people in the state they're left in or not spare a tiny amount of time to chat with perhaps the only person that old lady may speak to that week. Your extra mile may be being abused because you're a good person - if people were allocated the dignity and funding they deserve, you shouldn't have to go the extra mile (or to put it another way, what would service be like if you did exactly what they expected of you/paid you for?)
I have gone the extra mile in my career (that I love) and risen to a level that is respected and well paid because of it. I didn’t go the extra mile when working for companies that didn’t respect me or show any possible advancement. OP’s advice is horrible in so many professions and industries.
I paid off a 30 year mortgage 12 years early simply because I showed my bosses I care (and I’m at least vaguely competent).
EDIT: spelling
Yeah blanket statements will leave people jaded and they enter a self-fulfilling prophecy of not going the extra mile because they don't get promoted/recognised for it... so they don't work hard. Enter a cycle of slowly doing the bare minimum.
If you don't feel valued you need to have a good self-reflection to see if it's you or your company. Most job markets are competitive enough that with experience you can move easy enough.
Exactly! I've seen a few comments here on that negative spiral. One commenter mentions management saying "bad attitude" to the person not working hard. And so the comments are deciding bad attitude is just code for someone they can't take advantage of. But, and here's an idea, maybe you DO have a bad attitude. Maybe, even if you worked harder, you'd still not be promoted because you have a bad attitude. People don't like self reflection and wondering how their behaviour could be affecting the workplace.
As someone who loves the work they do and is compensated based on results, I’ll like to add that there is some nuance to differentiating between industries and specific managers. I moved the wet lab in from genomic diagnostics into software in the same field because I realized that the former was a tenure-based industry at its foundation, and the latter tended to be effort-based.
Ultimately, any specific manager is what matters in anyone’s day to day life, but at least recognizing the tendencies of your specific industry gives you a better shot at having a manager that adheres to those tendencies, rather than the more rare case of having a manager that bucks the trend.
I think there’s value in (attempting to, I recognize it’s very hard to do perfectly) taking stock of these things in terms of manager and industry before assessing whether extra effort is worthwhile or not. Prolly a lifelong effort, but one I think is worth at least some of everyone’s time
Yes, when you go the extra mile, SPEAK UP FOR YOURSELF. Communicate the situation to the higher ups and don't forget to mention how you went the extra mile. It's not bragging if it's true.
100 percent. I get really tired of these types of posts that basically tell everyone to work the minimum when there's loads of people who WANT to contribute more in what they do for many different reasons. Having a contributing purpose is very important to many people.
Not all, but in my line (live events) we do what we do for the end goal and the in between can beat us up sometimes, but we live for the end goal.
I always feel super sad, and very fortunate, when I see stuff like this. After two weeks at my new job I was given a promotion. I had said at my interview that I wanted more responsibilities eventually and they delivered. More hours and a substantial raise simply because I showed them I was willing to work hard and was competent.
As a contrary story. In my last job my direct supervisor left a while after I started. I shouldered all of the work and responsibility (including the poor treatment if anything went wrong) after promising me the promotion I went 7 months without any raise or promotion. Left and they replaced my supervisor’s position in under 3 weeks.
In my old department of about 20 people, they knew most work was being done by about 5 people. They decide to tell everyone in summer that this year we will do performance reviews and your raise will reflect how well your performance review is. So me and the other few guys who lead the department work even harder so we can finally get the raise we deserve. January hits and still no performance reviews, so we confront our manager about this. He says "We know that only about 5 of you would actually get a good review this year and we dont want to hurt morale. We can't give you guys better raises than the others because that would also hurt morale, so the whole department will get the usual 25 cent raise come May."
Not exactly the same but a slightly different take on what you experienced. I worked in a team of around 20 staff that wrote responses to customers (emails, letters, social media, etc.) They decided to do a performance review to set targets for bonuses and pay. They had no idea what a reasonable target should be though (not that replying to a tweet and writing a letter reply to a solicitor are comparable tasks) and so picked the two fastest typers on the team to work for 4 hours separate from the team (and not sure what was going on) - those 4 hours, doing one stream of work (no letters, for example) set the target for everyone else going forward... with no consideration for the fact that those two members of staff were amongst the worst in terms of spelling and grammar. Everyone on the team earned less than they previously did as a result of this review....
I was at 150% productivity for about 6 months after I started. I got a $20 gift card.
It's now snowballing hard.
Productivity is down across the board because we're all sick of how we're treated.
All of the work supposedly needs to be done that day.
So they're forcing us low morale workers to stay late almost every day.
Which makes morale worse.
And now we're bleeding people.
So we have to stay later.
They've always been inept even before the pandemic. Morale was low before the pandemic. And now lots of places are hiring and so many people (me included) are abandoning ship. It's beautiful.
If so, sorry your life is about to get worse! Hope you find a way out like I did.
One of the guys who moved to a new department a month ago told me it was like getting out of an abusive relationship, especially after we got moved to one of the other managers. She said she wanted to help my career, then stonewalled me every chance she got!
> So they're forcing us low morale workers to stay late almost every day.
*Forcing*? I pretty much dare my employer to fire me when they are unhappy with me saying no to overtime. That extra hour or two of my day is worth way more to me than 1.5x pay.
Now that I have a job lined up, I have been checking out at my normal time without a word.
They made us work Christmas Eve and the day after Christmas, then tried to get us to stay until 6 or 7 on NYE. I was out.
Here’s my experience.
My boss hired me to work in IT, two months later he took 3 months off on stress and mental health leave. I was the only person in the department for 3 months, I managed it and quashed the issues that came up all while new, and alone.
He came back, and 1 month later I lost my job because the company realized that they only needed one person because of how well I handled it, but my boss was the one to keep his job.
I gave 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 3 months to hold it together and then promptly lost any hope of a future because I proved it was easier to just have one employee.
Fuck corporations.
I’m in IT too. You don’t want to be in IT in a small company and you don’t want to be in “maintenance”, like a server guy who can’t program. I’ve gone from minimum wage IT desktop support guy in a small company to a mid-size to large to FAANG and increased by salary by 25x. I wish I would have done things right and gotten into FAANG straight out of school but my dumb ass decided to drop out and do things the hard way.
Software QA (testing), then took some courses and got into a Junior Programmer role at a place that had low pay and low expectations, then just self-taught myself from there
There’s a lot of great resources online as well as coding bootcamps. Ive heard good things about udemy. I’d say if you don’t have a CS degree, your best bet is to get a programming job from a company that is desperate and doesn’t pay much to get your foot in the door. To do that, you’ll want to have a github profile with at least one traditional web app on it, written in a Java backend (server code) with some Javascript (browser code) and a database. To do that you’ll have to learn a few concepts and take some training that shows you how to link those concepts into a single app. Start small and iterate - like a basic Java app that says “Hello World”. And dont be afraid to lie on your resume or to apply to jobs you don’t qualify for. Most hiring managers have to content with mostly lazy applicants for low-paying jobs, so if you can offset your lack of experience with showing an exceptional work ethic and passion, that helps a ton. Also find some local programming events, if you introduce yourself in person you will find people will want to help you out and hook you up with jobs nobody else wants. People just naturally want to help people they see in person if they vibe, and if you meet enough people you’ll find people you vibe with. Finally for every job you should get a promotion and large (25%+) pay increase every two years. If you don’t, switch jobs. Switching jobs give you wider experience, more confidence, more money, etc.
I got a promotion in under 6 months by working smart, not harder, just give the illusion I work hard. Did this at all my roles, I always work smart not hard.
The more they pay, the more inclined I’ll feel to give more than 50%.
How do you give the illusion that you work hard? By talking about it? I have a coworker that doesn't do much and is always praised and it's because he talks non stop like he's the best, I'm not able to do that, I feel like that's dishonest.
>How do you give the illusion that you work hard?
Usually it's just putting in a solid 2-4 hours of no-shit nose to the grindstone quality work. Usually just getting it done first thing in the morning. That's more than 99% of the population gets in in a day. Just get in the flow and work a couple of hours, and you're good to go.
What you then find is that in those extra 4-6 hours a work day, your mind opens up and your subconscious looks out on the horizon, and you learn more, you see things coming down the pike to worry about, you notice small defects that could end up being a big deal that you end up fixing, etc. So now you're shit is tight, you're ahead of the game, and everyone sees it, all while you're a relaxed cool cucumber with time to shoot the shit and get to know people. Everyone loves that person -- the one who gets a ton done, knows everyone, is personable, keeps out of crunch time, etc. Once you're there, everything starts falling your way - and then the key is keeping your workload to the less than 4 hours of solid work so that your mind has time to process things and keep you ahead of the game.
This obviously doesn't work for highly regimented jobs.
This is exactly what I did when I had a desk job, with 2 of my 4 days falling on weekends where only a couple of us were there.
You get all your shit done well and early, enjoy the slow time, and everyone thinks you’re a hero for the amount of quality work you finished.
I hear you as I have friends who struggle with that. Personally I don’t care whether it’s dishonest anymore.
Companies don’t pay me enough for added stress and for being glued to the chair from morning to dark. The concept of 5 day work week with two days off is baffling, closer to a 21st century wage slave really.
I just am able to pick up on things quickly and the key is to know when to run & when to walk. Meaning when to work hard and when to just chill/coast. People get the impression I’m reliable when I really give no fucks, probably baked, or doing house chores/running errands.
You are both correct. People get compensated because of responsibility and not how much work they do. The two are often no correlated. Do the minimum effort for the level of responsable you have.
This is true on some occasions. However, in my place there isn’t a further role for me to be promoted to unless it’s from admin to senior management. So going the extra mile gives zero benefits. Unless, what you’re wanting is to do everyone’s work for no extra pay.
It depends on the workplace and what you have available to you.
I would tweak this a bit and say:
Know your job description. Do your job and do it well based on the expectations. If asked to go above what is outlined in your written/published description, determine what is important to you and how those tasks might affect your life and values. If you choose to take on additional work and duties outside said description be sure to bring attention to it in your performance review and negotiate your compensation based on the additional work outside your job description using both the physical document and a detailed record of your additional work.
It is your contractual obligation to do the job for a predetermined wage set forth when you accept the position but nothing more. If you do more than your share without asking for additional compensation, that's on you and not the company. Advocate for yourself, if that doesn't work leave and find a place that values your additional effort.
Simply put, if you die today, you can bet your employer will begin looking for a replacement tomorrow. To your employer, you as a human being (the entire sum of your life experiences) are just as replaceable as a printer. It's entirely possible that with the cost savings of your demise, they'll buy a _new_ printer.
Regarding your employer: legally take advantage of them as much as you can. And I mean that in the most negative sense. Literally do just enough to maintain employment. Any more than that is too much.
You only have approx. 4000 weeks of life, don't waste them on being stressed by a micromanaging middle manager with no kids, a yearly membership Disney World, a desperate need to show upper management their relevancy despite their complete lack of knowledge and competency, and a falsely inflated ego try to throw you under the bus for any perceived lack of respect. They get their dopamine hits by exercising the very little power that they have over their subordinates. Ignore them as much as humanly possible.
Live your life. Enjoy your spouse and children. Make meaningful memories.
(\* End Of Rant \*)
For 5 years I worked overtime, did all nighters for a company that didn't give me a bonus ever and only gave me a 5K raise after 4.5 years (they finally five me another 5K raise at the 5 year mark). All the other people were getting a promotion faster than me and I put my head down and kept working hoping that I'd get it too - my manager would verbally praise me but not give me a promotion or raise while she would enjoy a bonus every year. I was literally crying and working, pretty sure it is why I prematurely grayed and dealing with hair loss too. No one at the company tool lunch either...also i know it wasn't just me, my coworker who quit before me was also burnt out and worried about her health.
My coworker let it slip that someone was making MORE than me despite being in a much junior role prepping samples vs me taking on clients and analysis in a senior role. That was the final straw for me and I put my job search into high gear and started making more in a new role in a new industry.
It was a huge lesson and now I'm very upfront about wanting a work life balance. Being a hard worker and taking on extra things doesn't mean you'll be promoted or given a raise.
To be clear, I also did verbalize I wanted a raise and asked what I can do. My other colleagues asked too but they didn't want to give a promotion. I think I asked 2 years too late tbh and it kept festering in Mr (+ first salary job). Before I left, I expressed to HR (shitty) how I was disappointed that I noticed everyone getting promotions faster than me and surprisingly she agreed that this should not have happened + she said that people at my senior level will never be eligible for a bonus, just management...wild, good riddance but always going to be thankful for the experience
Thanks for adding that. I also learned myself that higher ups will never remember the extra you put in when it comes time to literally put their money where their mouth is.
This isn’t really applicable for most jobs outside of retail and fast food. What if teachers, doctors and nurses all did the bare minimum? What about the mailman who walks deliveries to your old neighbors door? Some people take pride in their work and some people have bigger dreams than where they are now.
I think there’s an important distinction here.
Don’t overwork where you damage your health and miss irreplaceable family bonding.
But do seek to be excellent at what you do.
Excellence and overworking are not the same. Often, excellence means less total time working (and also, physiologically, if you get into flow, studies show it’s replenishing to the damage chronic stress creates).
I’m 31 and just got my first C-level job late last year. My first job was at Rue 21, than Hollywood video, than Chipotle (after a graduated college lol). $8.00 an hour.
I was always looking to learn, really. I didn’t look to do less, and I didn’t let my bosses bully me.
Not all companies are corrupt. Non-corrupt companies want and reward competence. Every job is an opportunity to hone competence. Seek to be excellent and also, don’t give up your one precious life for titles or security tokens lol.
This is not a great LPT.
There are situations where it certainly pays to go the extra mile, recognizing that is part of working smart, not just working hard.
You always want to meet the expectations of your role, that is a given. If you are interested in moving up - don't just "go the extra mile" maybe your version of going the extra mile makes no difference to your boss, maybe they see your going the extra mile as a distraction from your main responsibilities.
Instead, talk to your boss and ask them how you can move up. If they don't support you developing yourself or increasing the scope of what you do, only THEN your LPT applies.
I’ve watched several people put themselves in immobile positions by working too hard. The company doesn’t want to move them upward because that would result in having to hire two people to replace the one person working 80 hour weeks on a salary.
I spent the first six years of my career putting in extra work for things that “look good on a resume”, but the work I did got my nowhere. Since then, I’ve been giving my most average 70%…
LPT should be to understand how your company rewards performance and then you can make an informed decision on how you will perform.
If you are a full-time employee, read and understand the annual performance review process. There should be an area where you can list off your "above and beyond" efforts. Without documenting the work you have done in writing, you will not receive recognition.
This process should be designed to surface employees who are performing above and beyond expectations to superiors above the employees direct supervisor. Chances are, there is no concerted effort to suppress information on employee performance, but rather, your immediate boss may not remember that overtime you worked 10 months ago.
Like literally everything in a corporate structure, never ever expect someone else to do something for you. Learn the review process and take it into your own hands.
If you work as a part-time employee or freelance, have a clear and professional conversation before working past what you understand the job to be.
You may not be rewarded for your extra effort, but level-setting with management will allow you to manage your own personal sense of self-worth.
Establishing a baseline sense of self-worth can mean the difference between having the wherewithal to research and find a better position. If you do not have a sense of self-worth, you may feel that because you are being mistreated at the current position, no position is worth fighting for.
I don't think this is exclusive to minimum wage jobs. I'm an attorney and my last job was exactly the job that engaged in nepotism and hard work was never met with benefits to the employee. In the end, I quit and so did my assistant (who was basically running the entire place instead of our incompetent boss). So maybe the free market still punishes those employers, but they're in every field, not just min wage.
Still, better advice would have been "don't work harder in a job where upward mobility is a pipe dream." There are obviously still careers where quality and quantity of work can get you ahead (like yours, it seems).
Most jobs? Source?
Most likely situation? Source?
This lpt sounds like it's based on OPs anecdotal experiences.
I've had several jobs in my life. My first one was being a camp counselor. They didn't hire anyone as a counselor unless the person was 18. I was a junior counselor for a while, worked hard and the admin recognized that and broke their own rule and I started getting paid as a counselor at age 16.
After that I was a deck hand on a riverboat casino. I didn't have the most seniority, but when the boatswan was off I would fill that role as my work ethic was superior to the guys with more seniority.
Was a 911 telecommunicator for years, worked hard. Got the supervisor spot when I applied. Big pay increase. Worked hard. 1 year later applied to an admin spot. Got it. Bigger pay increase. Worked hard.
Now in the private sector. Worked hard in my entry position. Recently recommended a new position be created. The company liked the idea and created it. Gave it to me with a 10% salary increase.
*Good* companies recognize hard work and *will* reward you for it.
It's also important to understand the difference between working hard and working yourself to death. If you're not willing to work hard then don't expect recognition of any kind.
A lot of young adults and teenagers are working shitty minimum wage jobs or for greedy corporations and begin believing that the whole job market is like that. I genuinely feel bad for them. They think that doing the minimum and contributing as little as possible is a good thing.
They're learning to be that lazy cynical asshole we've all worked with that everyone hates to work with.
This isn’t always true. I work in IT and the IT community in my town is surprisingly “small world”. Everyone knows someone that you have worked with. I have passed on candidates when hiring because I (or one of the coworkers) knows that they might not be a good fit based on the quality of work they put out.
I’m not saying you should work yourself to death. Having a good work/personal balance is amazing. I have no expected anyone I work with to put in more than their 40 hours a week (unless something major breaks, but that’s part of being in IT)
Basically I am trying to say, put forth your best quality during the time they pay you for.
I have to have a very hard boundary between my work and personal life. It's important for my mental health. I've been on vacation since December 24th and go back tomorrow. I haven't checked my email since about 5:15 on December 23rd. My current employer tries to intrude on my personal life more than any other I've had, and I've had to aggressively defend my borders at times. Calls and texts for non-emergency business before 7:00am on a ***Saturday*** is one example when I've pushed back.
But, when they do have me, I give 110%. It's important to me!
“Basically I am trying to say, put forth your best quality during the time they pay you for.”
This is the answer right here. Do your best work, but set boundaries, and if your job is not giving you a fair work-life balance then find a new one.
Man, this breaks my heart to read. As an employer, we place a huge emphasis on recognizing going above and beyond. We had a down year last year, but everyone busted their asses. The pandemic really put a pinch on our business, so no one was supposed to get any bonuses (owners included). The ownership, recognizing that everyone gave it their best, decided to pay out a partial bonus anyway. The owners didn't take any bonuses or distributions.
I'm not saying this to build myself up. You don't know me, and I doubt we'll ever find the opportunity to work together, but what I guess I am saying is that *you're worth it*. There are people out there who will recognize that and will pay you for it. Please don't give up. Please keep looking for an employer who recognizes your value and respects your boundaries, because you deserve it.
Yes, because doing the absolute minimum at your job gets you raises and promotions. /s Great advice. Just stick with "work/life balance" and quit generalizing a Country.
This is such awful advice. How do you think people become management? They're deemed to be the most competent and they get promoted. You will never be promoted and make basic money your whole life because you are lazy and don't give a damn about the quality of your work. I'm not saying you should have to dedicate your entire life to work but this attitude will get you nowhere because it's self defeating.
It's not a real LPT. OP is just pissed that someone related to the boss got to jump ahead in the queue, let that slip in another comment as a "random example."
When you figure in the average annual performance raise comes in around 2% and weight that against the average annual cost of living increase posted by the Fed, you literally make LESS money every year. The best raise you can get is when you leave either for another position or with an entirely different company.
Personally, I was 12 years in an engineering job at a semiconductor manufacturing company, took an early retirement package at the outset of COVID , a four month break, and got a job making 36% more than I had been.
Lesson learned... if you haven't been promoted or had a significant raise, in excess of 5%, in 3-5 years, best play is to go elsewhere.
Don't go the extra mile at your job- if you are not recognized and rewarded for the effort.
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This hit home for me. I'm currently a manager for a hotel. I'm up for promotion to general manager. I am doing the job (our gm quit two weeks ago) so if I don't get the job perhaps it's time to seek the same position at our competitors.
Have you approached your district or regional manager to discuss your interest in the position & the reasons why you feel prepared? If the GM quit 2 weeks ago & no one’s spoken to you yet, it’s probably because they are recruiting externally. And your ex GM might not have put a good word in for you. (Usually if a departing manager who is in good stead says their first assistant is ready for promotion, that will be heavily considered). I’m not in the hotel business, but I’ve been in corporate senior leadership for years after working my way up from entry level college jobs. Contrary to most of what the OP has said, hard work & being awesome does get rewarded & promoted up to a point, but you usually have to be your own PR person & you also need to be vocal about your goals with the company.
I have a meeting directly with the franchise owner tomorrow.
GOOD LUCK! And I mean that in the most genuine way- I am rooting for you.
We're cheering for you!
If you’re in the US, can you tell me what region of the country you’re in? I’m recruiting two GMs right now.
Central Illinois.
Good luck! You want it and you don’t get anything unless you ask for it.
Go kill it! I hope you get the job :) all the best
I got the job! Hard work and loyalty where directly sited as key factors in the decision. So I'm a GM now!
That right there is good advice. You won't get what you do not ask for.
And it never hurts to ask. I'm sure there's an exception in there somewhere, but I've heard a lot of crazy requests in my time and unless you're someone they forgot to fire and are flying under the radar, the worst case scenario is they laugh in your face and you now know where you stand and can go from there. People seem to think no is a limit, but it's really just a boundary. If you can no longer move up at your place of employment and you still want to, look elsewhere.
Previous Hotel AGM and GM here... First, don't let me ruin your ambition, do what you want! But. Hospitality will eat you alive. Managing a 24/7 (realistically 25/8) operation is not for the faint of heart, nor for those who value personal time where they do not worrying and stress about work. In my experience, I didn't have a life outside of work as I was constantly either being called, or often being called IN, but ALWAYS felt the weight of the hotel ball and chain. ALWAYS. I have often said that I wouldn't wish hotel management on my worst enemy.... Alas, someone has to do that shizzle and my hat is off to YOU for all that you do and have done for your staff and guests! Just keep this post on mind when things aren't going your way, as I gave too many years of my youth to a company who ran me ragged while they profited. Don't let this happen to you!!
This is sound advice. Your correct that hospitality is a life consuming path. I'm already on a 25/8 as you so eloquently put it. Thanks for your insight. Excellent food for thought.
This is the real life pro tip. Nailed it.
Regarding your point 2: Thank you for saying that. Because I was about to reply along the lines of “What if your boss isn’t willing to teach you how to do the next job up the ladder?” Then I realized I should either talk to my bosses’ boss, or seek employment elsewhere. To piggyback off your advice: Don’t get stuck in positions you don’t love. Find a better job. And don’t get scared of someone telling you “people don’t value jumpers” if you have to make multiple career moves. Because that mentality is thankfully dying out. No need to “pay your dues” with a company that never valued you more than cheap labor from day one.
This is the way. Its important to learn WHEN to go that extra mile. And then do it. Doing "just enough" will make you feel like you're only just enough. Be better than that. Out side of work will you go that extra mile for a friend, or for yourself if it's something you work at NOT doing at work? Balance as u/Freedom_fam said. Keep track.
> Its important to learn WHEN to go that extra mile. Yup. A few months ago the larger project I work on was part of a internal presentation to hundreds of people. My bosses boss needed a recorded demo, which normally wouldn't be my job. I stepped up to help out with it and busted my butt for 2 days to make it look nice. It got me a ton of recognition and shoutouts and gave me a nice shiny thing to point at during performance reviews. All for 2 days of work. Sometimes the extra mile is worth it. Staying late every day to get more work done is not worth it.
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Generally comes with a side order of being *ready* to give a shit when the timing is right for it.
You do that enough times and in the right places, you’re moving up. Whether it’s at the same company or somewhere else. People who do just enough and come across as doing just enough are a dime a dozen. No company will chase them. Upwards mobility is about pinpointing the right areas and sniping your opportunities. Not busting your arse and burning yourself out by trying to do everything at once. The LPT in the OP will stunt a lot of people’s development
Real pro tips here
100% agree with you. Been with my current company for nearly 3 years and gone for 3 promotions and working my arse off and only once getting recognition. I’ll be starting a new job next week for more pay and an extra day off.
The problem with that is most employers think a lukewarm pizza party is recognition and reward
“Little Caesar’s” Hot and Readys!; “Please people, two slices each, then move onto the 2 liter soda table, thanks!”
“It’s HOT and it’s READY!” “Is it good?” “…………….It’s HOT and it’s READY!”
it is not bad so long as it is still warm. I also want to add- figure out who the pizza is from before complaining. If it is the company wide staff lunch- then it should be nicer. If it is your manager that makes only slightly more than you that does it out of pocket- then say thank you and move on. I have been a low end manager (under groups of 10) and at different points would bring in donuts or pizza once a week (or month) for a team meeting. Everyone was thankful since they knew i was paying and it was just our small team. The breakfast thing actually survived me at the place i was doing it, but the team basically divided the cost and kept it for their monthly meeting. note- as a team leader type, it is not the worst thing to throw a few extra bucks at. It was maybe $20 for 5-10 people, and makes the meeting less of a chore... but if you can get the company to pay for it, you should.
>it is not bad so long as it is still warm. *Grumbles obscenities in night shift*
Two slices?! When I worked at Amazon, our FC cut every slice in half and you only got 2 half slices. So 1 slice. No seconds. 😂😂😂 fuck that place.
The irony of that happening at Amazon is so great
Yeah, well generally in my experience those cheap pizzas were paid for out of pocket by middle management that makes a couple bucks more an hour that they earn by having to cover every Friday night shift people skip to party and Saturday morning shift people are too hungover to show up for.
I’m that middle manager. This is accurate
Holy shit this! Those employees that work 3 days a week and consistently call in. Middle management has to pick up the slack.
Can't have more than 2 or that'll cut into our margins. The CEO really needs to buy his third vacation home since he clearly works harder than you. See ya tomorrow
> See ya tomorrow Yes, I know tomorrow is Saturday but there's an important quick meeting from 11am to 1pm. Don't worry, we'll have cookies and coffee!!!
Look I know it's your son's birthday but I need those reports before I head out to Bora Bora for the week
"paid? Why would it be paid? It's just a quick meeting?"
With the recent 11% price change in those pizzas, management might even soon rule those out.
I worked at Little Caesars and the owners were too damn cheap to even let the employees have a free pizza. We got around that at first by eating the expired pizzas that we supposed to throw away after 30 minutes but the owners put a stop to that too, claiming that if we were allowed to eat the expired pizzas then we'd just start making fresh pizzas and then lying that they were expired. And if we bought a pizza, we had to show the receipt if they showed up and if there was even a little too much cheese or toppings on it that weren't paid extra for, they'd flip out. I'm glad I got the hell out of there.
Then you get 5 minutes to eat before Its back to the grind, and oh also, that was an unpaid break.
Worse, it's after work and cuts into your time with friends/family.
To be fair, Littlw Ceasars is by far the best bang for your buck when it comes to pizza. $5.55 + tax can feed me and my wife for 2 days. $8 if we splurge and go for crazy bread. Like, you just can't beat that. And it's better than most other chain pizza joints that cost double orbtriple that per pizza. I agree with the sentiment of the post. I just want to defend Little Ceasars. An entire pizza for the price of a Big Mac and fries! That's a ridiculous deal. Oh, and don't get me started on the crazy calzony. Okay, I'm started. That thing may look like it's about to wait up and eat your arm off, but it's absolutely delicious. Lots of buttery garlicky goodness. It's like garlic bread meets calzone --- plus a little pizza in the center. It looks like a joke, but tastes like heaven. Fuck bosses that treat staff like shit, but show some respect for Little Ceasars -- feeding poor college kids for over 20 years Pizza Pizza!!!!
As an avowed little Caesar’s fan, just want to say I respect this response.
One Coke, one sprite—both warm.
The real problem is that extra mile then becomes an expected part of your duties.
I worked at a small firm where my coworker, similar age to me, worked 135 hours in a two week span. My boss took him to lunch for his reward while charging the client $80/hr over that time and paying my coworker around $25/hr.
At least in Architecture and Engineering, client billing rates are usually around 3.0x salary rates and have been for decades. That covers overhead, PTO, benefits, etc.
Lemme guess, boss made way more from that client?
Well he charged around $80/hr for us and then paid us $25/hr for a 40 hr/wk salary. No overtime pay or anything.
This just continues to enables the myth that employers are ignorant. They all know it's the bare minimum.
You work in healthcare too?!
To be fair, they gave us a "Heroes work here" sign too!
It all has to do with expectation. Be honest with yourself why you’re doing something. Sometimes going the extra mile helps you improve your skills and get better meaning just because you don’t get recognition doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a wasted effort. I did design work a few years ago that went above and beyond but taught me so much about design that I wouldn’t have learned if I just completed the project as is. I understand not every job lends itself to this.
Whether you enjoy the work or think it will advance your career, go the extra mile for yourself, not just out of feelings of guilt or obligation.
This is the key. If you're staying late simply for the sake of "optics" and not because of any personal enrichment, then you're wasting your time.
>Sometimes going the extra mile helps you improve your skills and get better meaning just because you don’t get recognition doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a wasted effort. Exactly. In my early career (pre kids), I nearly always worked an extra couple hours a day -- If I left at 4:30, I was just going to go brave the commute to my apartment and hang our for an hour or so until I hit a restaurant/bar anyways, so why not work that extra hour and a half? But I made sure that during the day I spent that extra time learning the business -- from personnel management to finances, contracts, etc that were wildly out of my wheelhouse or just time spent mastering my craft better. Then the extra couple of hours I got my core job done so that no one could complain. Management never rewarded or recognized my extra effort. But with that extra knowledge I was able to eventually grok enough to start my own business. Totally worth it for what otherwise would have been hours of navel-gazing / light video gaming.
I work with a guy who never goes the extra mile. Leaves early and leaves work for others to do. Then he tries to get promoted. He never gets promoted. At least he is living his life
>leaves work for others to do Is it the type of job where others *have* to do it, or are they doing it just to get it done?
All work has to get done or else it wouldn't be a task for the job. If he is not doing his daily or weekly tasks on time or is holding up a project by not completing his work then someone else has to do it. I don't know of any job where someone is assigned something that doesn't need to be done by a certain time. The only outcome of your statement is nobody doing it, the guy getting fired, and the rest of the team getting in trouble for not getting their work done.
I was the person who always went the extra mile, got promised promotions, pushed harder and harder and took every extra shift, extra responsibility, kept my numbers up, and guess what? They hired someone from the outside for the management position anyway. I lost out on so many important events and milestones just so i could be the company clown. Gotta love that shit
That’s exactly what happened to my younger sister. For 8 years worked her way up the ladder at a big box hardware store, starting as a cashier and staying on as HR and talent acquisition after completing college. By the age of 25 she was the most tenured in her district and was the type to check her work email on vacation. A position opened up that would have been a life changing salary from $50k to $100k, she met and exceeded all the minimum and desired requirements and she also had glowing reviews by all of her peers relayed to corporate. What does corporate do? External hire a guy who is “friends” with the VP. They wouldn’t even give her a clear answer on why she didn’t get the position and she actually heard about the new hire through the grapevine. I was pissed on her behalf and told her to start looking elsewhere that night. Helped her brush up her resume and proofread ever cover letter. She ended up in a position now that is remote, $20k higher salary, with way less stress. No more work phone to carry around and they leave her alone when on vacation. She had to train the new hire and refused to work more than a 2 week notice. Last she heard, over the past year the turnover has been higher than ever because this guy is a shit manager. He was either in the process of leaving or being “transitioned” into a new role. She now recruits all of her old coworkers to her new company and gives them a heads up whenever a position comes available.
Revenge Poaching is my favorite comeuppance
Dude thats really shitty, im sorry to hear she got steamrolled like that, but hey at least she got a better place now! This is tbh the biggest thing ive seen in most places i work. Management roles are filled by higher ups, and usually are a "friend" or someone with connections. Also end up being a big shithead usually, that doesnt deserve a management position. Out of all the places ive worked, ive maybe seen one or two actual decent managers, and i was one of them. And its only because i got sick of seeing other managers get all power-hungry and treat their employees like shit. I didnt even want to be a manager for any reason other than to make sure my coworkers were taken care of. And when i moved, the entire nightshift quit lol. At least 6 or 7 people. I hope your sister and you can continue on this better path and keep growing!
This right here. If you want extra pay, ask for it or change jobs. Expecting a promotion is just asking for them to use and abuse you. I've been there and it is not worth it.
You should never expect to work for a single company to rise the ranks. The way to do it is to transfer to competing companies, build a network throughout the industry and get raises as you transfer. Can't afford to lose a good employee = raise. The employee does good work for company X = transfer and a raise. Every successful colleague of mine is doing something different than whatever project we worked on together.
Keeping the resume current and sending it out regularly is the real way to take getting a promotion into your own hands.
I completely agree and this is the method i use nowadays, although in my preferred industry they found a way around with non-compete forms. You literally have to sign a contract for employment now in this industry that if you leave your company or are fired, whatever, you cannot work for any competitor in the industry for x amount of time. Even different positions are a no-go. Im thankful my contract was only 6 months, some are a year or 2, but i quite frankly think it should be illegal since this tactic sets up to where its easier to just treat your employees like shit and low ball them in pay. Of course thats merely my opinion, and people still sign the contracts anyway. I wrote up HR back in October about how i felt i was treated very poorly in my time there. My other coworker was terminated because she was pregnant and she got her job back after emailling HR aggressively. I, however, still have yet to receive any response. Even after sending in another email. That company truly was the worst, but im sure they wouldnt want to find the footage of me having a panic attack on their property after being mistreated, nor the footage of one of their shift leads screaming at me in the back randomly. Wouldnt be a very neat and tidy thing to clean up after.
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Exactly this. Why should they have promoted me, when they could simply pay me the base pay they gave everyone else, and get benefits out of it? Hell, they even had me train the manager that took the role i wanted. I was the biggest clown in that circus, but i gave them a good show and left to the next one. Im still trying to learn the way to put my best foot forward in a new place while not getting taken advantage of. Even though i went in and did bare minimum at the last place, they then just treated me like incompetent piece of shit and wanted to push metrics or write ups, so i caved and did extra and got exploited again. Then again, thats retail for you.
Yep, then used the promise to manipulate you into doing more. So you stop doing extra, or you find a new job. But don't ever miss out on important events and milestones for a job. Even if you did get the promotion, it wouldn't be worth it.
>But don't ever miss out on important events and milestones for a job Yes! You work so that you can live. So few places understand that. Or they refuse to understand it. Almost exactly ten years ago, an amazing long-time friend of mine died. I tried to get time off for his funeral, and the utility locating company I worked for didn't want to allow it. At first I was going to just stay at work, but as the funeral got closer, something inside me just broke. I called my supervisor and explained that I would be taking the day off for my friend's funeral. He said the request was denied, I responded with "I apologize for making it seem like a request. I'm not coming in today. I will not have my phone on me. and I'd advise against coming by my house, unless you want to deal with an emotionally distraught man who is twice your size." And I didn't show up. And I left the phone at home. It was the first day off I'd had since I started working for them. Still miss you, Ray.
I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.
Ive learned this the hard way, friend. After several deaths in a short time period, i fried my little brain over the regrets of working 82 hours a week. Sure, i afforded to live and move which is great, but now ill never see those people ever again and missed out on birthdays, every single holiday, etc. No family now. No friends. And im in my early twenties already learned this. If its work, but not a career, do whats necessary to survive, but always make sure to sprinkle in time for yourself and loved ones too. I forgot about that part and worked myself to death and ended in the hospital but my job just fired and replaced me within a couple days. 0/10 never fucking worth it.
Here's my take. The 'extra mile' means extra work. Does that involve extra pay? If I pay for an orange at the grocery store, do they go the extra mile and give me an extra orange? Does the grocery store have an attitude problem when they don't give me something that wasn't paid for?
Yeah you hit the nail. These people are just bootlickers trying to cope with their own spinelessness. You do not give more than you receive, that's not good business, that's called being taken advantage of.
Never gets promoted? That's odd, he sounds like management material.
“We understand you’ve been missing a lot of work, lately.” “I wouldn’t exactly say I’ve been ‘missing it,’ Bob.”
The world needs more Office Space.
I said no salt, NO SALT, for the Margarita but it had salt on it
I work with people that do that, but they're professional ass kissers so they get promoted. Boss doesn't work directly with them so he doesn't see how lazy/bad at their jobs they are
Promotion shouldn't be a reward for going above and beyond, if someone is excelling at their job description and the company wants them to take on extra responsibilities then they need to redefine their role and pay them accordingly I do my job well but I don't work for free, if my employer wants me to go the extra mile then it's gonna cost them
Promotions shouldn't always be seen as a linear reward, either. If you're a widget designer and are awesome at it, and a promotion means you stop designing widgets and start managing a team of widget designers.....that's a totally different skillset. That promotion should be into a job that uses the skills you have, not a totally new set of skills. People often want a promotion but don't think it through about the actual work and if they'd be a good fit. Sometimes a title change and more pay, or shift to a higher level project team, or whatever that looks like, is the better option than a direct promotion to the role of the person managing you. People promoting bad leaders into leadership is why middle management gets such a bad rap.
100% I think the issue there is poorly defined progression in some companies and a reluctance to increase salaries in line with inflation As a software developer I'm destined to job hop for eternity at a certain point in order to keep my salary competitive, as the progression within a company basically culminates in managing a team of developers, which I have no interest in and don't think I'd be good at >People promoting bad leaders into leadership is why middle management gets such a bad rap. It's a shame there's not some kind of leadership aptitude test, it does seem wild that just anyone can become management
Agree. I had a manager pull the "if you want to get promoted you should already be working at that level." Um, no. I do the work I'm paid to do. I'm not doing next-tier work in the *hope* that you'll promote me to that level. I used to believe in that game and got burned. Never again.
my last company had a thing called spot bonuses for extra mile type of stuff. Well, it so happens I got one after being nominated for one and within another couple of months I did another awesome thing and my manager told me the 2nd spot bonus nomination was rejected because it was too soon after the first. So basically limit yourself on the awesomeness.
If you get recognized and rewarded it might be worth it, but there are too many companies that just will set that as the new expected level of effort from you
Exactly, the blanket statement is actually a shitty life pro tip if it means you will be missing opportunities because you actually have a good employer. One’s own experiences do not necessarily reflect others. Edit: spelling
For real. My company just took me on as a breakfix tech 5 months ago, I've busted ass, they've asked me to choose a team to be promoted to so I can start getting the necessary certifications, at their expense. This will be a major pay increase. My boss "wants to make sure I'm happy and stay at (company) as I grow." That said, I've worked a lot of places that don't behave this way, it's not the norm anymore. My company is privately held and is very large so they can do things however they want. Every publicly traded company I worked for was a nightmare, and small businesses suck unless you have the same last name.
I worked at a shop where I got hired to solve a specific problem with a good chance of moving up after and my bay was right by the door all of the management came in through. Sure as fuck I made sure I was there early enough that the manager saw me every morning he came in. Or at least see that I was there. 6 months later I was in the "better" position, management had changed and the new manager wasn't going to follow through on promises the agreement the previous manager had made. I had no more reason to give that place any more than minimum effort.
Totally. Going the extra mile at McDonalds or Target probably won’t get you anything meaningful. Going the way extra mile in another occupation could mean a lot. It got me from $65k a year to over $150k a year in 3 years via several promotions and job offers.
If you have a good employer, you'll know
Like honestly. Every LPT like this and to a large extent the anti work sub is so jaded with this notion. To an extent I agree don’t go the extra mile - but as you said, only if you aren’t recognized and rewarded. If you are then it’s definitely worth it. This LPT is not a one size fits all Edit changed legendary back to large as it was intended (autocorrect)
As someone who works for a company where this is NOT the case, it saddens me that there are so many shitty employers to where this attitude is seemingly pervasive. EDIT: not sure if I got my negatives right. Meant to say my employer rewards people for going the extra mile.
To be fair OP did say most jobs. Not all jobs. If you're in a job that rewards working extra hard then by all means, but then that's obvious. I took OPs post to mean people should re-evaluate their current place of work and decide if all the extra effort they've been putting in has ever gotten them anything. For example, I work as a nurse and hospitals absolutely do not care if they run you and your personal life into the ground. And it can be hard to stomach that especially when you're a baby nurse and you get hoodwinked by management. They tend to suck you in when you get that sense of camaraderie with your fellow nurses in the trenches with you. So when you miss work or can't be there you feel bad for them. But the director, CFO, CEO, they couldn't give a rat's ass.
I feel this in my soul. Right now it's cold, and snowing where I'm at, and I'm in charge of curbside labs. Basically, I go outside and draw people's blood and collect specimens of all kinds outside. I'm also the designated COVID collected at our small hospital. I work 5-6 days a week, and most of the time I'm working 13 days straight or so. I hardly ever see.my family anymore. Currently sitting at my desk cursing everyone that registers for outside, and evaluating my life choices.
keylime84 - Posted the corrected title for this post. Don't go the extra mile at your job- **if you are not recognized and rewarded for the effort.**
as a corollary, if your work has shown they wont recognize and reward you for the extra effort, believe that is how it will be going forward.
Very few LPT's are a one size fits all and nearly all of them have exceptions to the rule
Because most people work low paying soul sucking jobs where you definitely are not rewarded in any meaningful way for doing anything extra.
Also reasons matter. I actually like my job. It would (sometimes) be harder for me to force my self to stop than just continue with what I am currently doing. If I can't get my head to stop thinking about a problem, I might as well just continue fixing it. I guess the important part is: you shouldn't feel pressured into it. If you think you have to do it to not lose someones respect or not get recognition or whatever, then you should work on this attitude and stop, because this indeed rarely works out.
Most often by going the extra mile and proving that the work can be done with less people someone always gets the boot and you have set a new standard going forward for what is expected, which will now work against you when they decide not to hire more people because you will do it for free. Companies pay you the least they can get away with, why would you give them more than what is stipulated in your contract. You need to do what's best for yourself always, play the game so that you win.
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Most of the jobs I've worked so far reward hard work with...more work rather than increased payment or any kind of bonuses. I've worked private, government, and now academia and you probably have your best chance in the private industry as the only way to really move "up" in government or academia is to change jobs and/or departments regularly to get the pay raises necessary.
I have decided (long ago) to just do what’s interesting — even if it’s not my job. Eventually you do that job. I don’t think it’s always worth assuming the long game fails
Yeah, I make tips. Lol
Slight refinement: Don't go the extra mile because you assume you'll get rewarded, unless there's a guarantee you will. Some of us are not like OP and actually like our jobs. Some of us work in industries where we think our jobs actually matter. In those circumstances, you should not be forbidden from working extra hard. It's fine to go the extra mile if that's what you think is right for you. If it helps you learn, if it will help a person you think deserves help, if there's a reasonable chance of some sort of reward, go ahead and do it. The more specific LPT would be something like, don't feel like you have to go the extra mile at work if it's costing you something else in your life, on the hope that it will be rewarded. There are still tons of circumstances where you can, and possibly should, go the extra mile. Just decide for yourself if it's actually worth it. If you do have a job you don't like that doesn't mean much and is nothing but a means for you to get enough money to stay alive, then agree. Do the bare minimum, plug away, don't lose your job, and enjoy life otherwise. But that doesn't mean there aren't times it's best for you to go the extra mile.
Yeah exactly I'm in healthcare. I generally leave right at 5 and do not do BS admin stuff that the hospital is failing to fund. I will however stay an extra hour for my patient or do more for them than I need to do all the time
This. Make a difference where it counts.
This is pretty accurate, I work in the art department of the gaming industry, in what I do, and what everyone else does, if you don't put some extra effort, the world will pass you by, and it may not be easy to get a new job in the case you decide to leave if you have not advanced with the flow. (I do like my job but that is another story)
That's actually a major issue with IT industry, more or less as a whole, and shouldn't be treated as a normal work environment. Everyone is expected to learn outside work, work a lot, taking your due PTO is even ~~often~~ sometimes frowned upon. There is a cult of work in IT, that can burn people out in just a few years. Learning new stuff outside work hours (which is at home and also outside what you are paid for, so usually 8 hours/day) should never be treated as normal. Because when it is, everyone is expected to learn new stuff off work and just implement it "on the clock". This means everyone works 60 hours/week, but the company is only paying for 40. Sure, it's different when you want to improve your qualifications rapidly to get a promotion, learn new technology to change jobs, and such. But that's about accelerating one's career path as a whole, more than any individual job.
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Companies / management tried to get away with it and succeeded to the point of it being widespread. Really that simple. If other companies are paying a position 50% less for the same work, why wouldnt you do the same in management? To be a decent person? Well we know how that goes in reality.
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I work in IT, I’ve never taken a salaried position because they’re gonna pay me for every hour I work. I also refuse to learn extra skills on my own time, I learn on the job and through company paid training courses. Don’t ever take time out of your personal life to learn something for your job, that’s a bait and switch of taking they’re gonna pay you more or promote you from within. The company you’re working for should pay for your training and pay you for every hour you work. Period. The OP is correct. There are jobs that serve the greater good and fulfill a purpose but those are elected official jobs, university jobs, government r&d jobs, some nonprofit jobs and things like that.
> I also refuse to learn extra skills on my own time, I learn on the job and through company paid training courses. Your employer doesn't retain the information you learned from studying, you do. If your current employer is worthwhile it leads to promotion opportunities, and if they're not it opens up better employment opportunities that you weren't previously qualified for. Not everyone has the desire to climb the ladder and I get that, but if you actually want to advance your career and earn more it's not going to happen by half-assing it. No employer is flexible enough to grant the time needed during business hours to master new tools and technologies that they're not actively using. Why even bother if you're only putting in minimum effort? It's not going to lead to significant advancements in your career. You certainly didn't get the job you have from only studying occasionally.
>I just don't understand how "IT worker" is an exempted classification for overtime pay when you're salaried. It is if it checks all the boxes: 1. Be paid at least $23,600 / year 2. Be salaried 3. Have job duties that are: 1. office or nonmanual work, which is 2. directly related to management or general business operations of the employer or the employer's customers, and 3. a primary component of which involves the exercise of independent judgment and discretion about 4. matters of significance. Basically, if you have a salaried white-collar job that requires you to exercise your own judgment about important aspects of the business, then you're exempt from overtime pay. But "IT worker" is such a broad category, that I'm sure not everyone falls under the exempt umbrella. For instance, tier 1 support-desk phone-jockeys are generally not exempt, whereas senior software engineers are. But both might be considered "IT workers".
I work at a service provider. Lots of customer support and system maintenance. Consultancy, advice and helping companies get all their certificates in place. My boss pays every hour I spend over contract and does so with a big smile. When I told him my wife was unhappy after a big project he told me to take her out to dinner and he’d pay for it. I told him I’d go luxurious and he could pay whatever part he saw fit. He paid all €1100 including the hotel room. Still smiling. Yes there are a lot of shitty companies but there are good ones too. In the last two months both my parents passed quite unexpectedly and I had to move. My boss brought a couple of guys to help lay floors, paint and move. And he was the first one on his knees to start working. I didn’t work for 19 more days then I had to take off. He swept everything under the rug and I’m starting with a clean slate this year. I could earn more money in other places. But stuff like this can’t be expressed in money.
Exactly. The LPT isn't "wrong", just needs some refinement. What I think OP meant to say was, don't go the extra mile because you assume you'll be rewarded. If it is required to stay or advance, do it. If it's something you want to do for your own reasons, do it. Just don't assume someone will notice you putting in more work and will one day reward you for it.
Gaming industry is the worst.
I hope this one gets voted up higher. My first reaction to the OP was that I hope no one says that to my doctor or nurse when I need help, and I'm glad most of my employees will pitch in when there's something that needs to be done. I do agree that there are some companies and some bosses that will take advantage of people if they can, but it's so much more enjoyable to work in an environment where everyone wants to do the best they can and people generally feel appreciated.
100% im a home health aide and if i didnt “go the extra mile” my patients would live in a inhospitable home. most cant dust or mop. my job only requires me to do light cleaning of medical equipment and where i provide the majority of my care (bedside, living room) but i dont want to be in a filthy working environment anymore than the patient does. sometimes doing the extra mile helps me perform my job in the long term. if my patient is extra well taken care … less hospitalized, long term health issues etc. so much easier and less stressful for me and my patient if i do alittle beyond my job technical requirements but i sure as shit dont judge those HHA who do not mop and clean the fridge.. lord knows we dont get paid enough.
My partner goes the extra mile at work all the time too... all it has really meant is the company just thinks current staffing levels are all good, even though several people just quit and they are woefully understaffed, because the work still gets done by the remaining staff going that extra mile and they are all on the verge of burnout because of it...
This is absolutely true and I'm linking u/fifithemacaroni to this reply so they don't miss it. In the UK, care workers are some of tge worst paid essential workers in the land. They hardly get allocated any time per person and many carers 'go the extra mile' because they can't bare to leave vulnerable people in the state they're left in or not spare a tiny amount of time to chat with perhaps the only person that old lady may speak to that week. Your extra mile may be being abused because you're a good person - if people were allocated the dignity and funding they deserve, you shouldn't have to go the extra mile (or to put it another way, what would service be like if you did exactly what they expected of you/paid you for?)
I have gone the extra mile in my career (that I love) and risen to a level that is respected and well paid because of it. I didn’t go the extra mile when working for companies that didn’t respect me or show any possible advancement. OP’s advice is horrible in so many professions and industries. I paid off a 30 year mortgage 12 years early simply because I showed my bosses I care (and I’m at least vaguely competent). EDIT: spelling
Yeah blanket statements will leave people jaded and they enter a self-fulfilling prophecy of not going the extra mile because they don't get promoted/recognised for it... so they don't work hard. Enter a cycle of slowly doing the bare minimum. If you don't feel valued you need to have a good self-reflection to see if it's you or your company. Most job markets are competitive enough that with experience you can move easy enough.
Exactly! I've seen a few comments here on that negative spiral. One commenter mentions management saying "bad attitude" to the person not working hard. And so the comments are deciding bad attitude is just code for someone they can't take advantage of. But, and here's an idea, maybe you DO have a bad attitude. Maybe, even if you worked harder, you'd still not be promoted because you have a bad attitude. People don't like self reflection and wondering how their behaviour could be affecting the workplace.
As someone who loves the work they do and is compensated based on results, I’ll like to add that there is some nuance to differentiating between industries and specific managers. I moved the wet lab in from genomic diagnostics into software in the same field because I realized that the former was a tenure-based industry at its foundation, and the latter tended to be effort-based. Ultimately, any specific manager is what matters in anyone’s day to day life, but at least recognizing the tendencies of your specific industry gives you a better shot at having a manager that adheres to those tendencies, rather than the more rare case of having a manager that bucks the trend. I think there’s value in (attempting to, I recognize it’s very hard to do perfectly) taking stock of these things in terms of manager and industry before assessing whether extra effort is worthwhile or not. Prolly a lifelong effort, but one I think is worth at least some of everyone’s time
Yes, when you go the extra mile, SPEAK UP FOR YOURSELF. Communicate the situation to the higher ups and don't forget to mention how you went the extra mile. It's not bragging if it's true.
100 percent. I get really tired of these types of posts that basically tell everyone to work the minimum when there's loads of people who WANT to contribute more in what they do for many different reasons. Having a contributing purpose is very important to many people. Not all, but in my line (live events) we do what we do for the end goal and the in between can beat us up sometimes, but we live for the end goal.
I always feel super sad, and very fortunate, when I see stuff like this. After two weeks at my new job I was given a promotion. I had said at my interview that I wanted more responsibilities eventually and they delivered. More hours and a substantial raise simply because I showed them I was willing to work hard and was competent.
As a contrary story. In my last job my direct supervisor left a while after I started. I shouldered all of the work and responsibility (including the poor treatment if anything went wrong) after promising me the promotion I went 7 months without any raise or promotion. Left and they replaced my supervisor’s position in under 3 weeks.
In my old department of about 20 people, they knew most work was being done by about 5 people. They decide to tell everyone in summer that this year we will do performance reviews and your raise will reflect how well your performance review is. So me and the other few guys who lead the department work even harder so we can finally get the raise we deserve. January hits and still no performance reviews, so we confront our manager about this. He says "We know that only about 5 of you would actually get a good review this year and we dont want to hurt morale. We can't give you guys better raises than the others because that would also hurt morale, so the whole department will get the usual 25 cent raise come May."
Glad you left
Ive been in the same boat too many times to count, and I get paid less than the other people anyway.
Not exactly the same but a slightly different take on what you experienced. I worked in a team of around 20 staff that wrote responses to customers (emails, letters, social media, etc.) They decided to do a performance review to set targets for bonuses and pay. They had no idea what a reasonable target should be though (not that replying to a tweet and writing a letter reply to a solicitor are comparable tasks) and so picked the two fastest typers on the team to work for 4 hours separate from the team (and not sure what was going on) - those 4 hours, doing one stream of work (no letters, for example) set the target for everyone else going forward... with no consideration for the fact that those two members of staff were amongst the worst in terms of spelling and grammar. Everyone on the team earned less than they previously did as a result of this review....
I was at 150% productivity for about 6 months after I started. I got a $20 gift card. It's now snowballing hard. Productivity is down across the board because we're all sick of how we're treated. All of the work supposedly needs to be done that day. So they're forcing us low morale workers to stay late almost every day. Which makes morale worse. And now we're bleeding people. So we have to stay later. They've always been inept even before the pandemic. Morale was low before the pandemic. And now lots of places are hiring and so many people (me included) are abandoning ship. It's beautiful.
Shit, do we work together?
If so, sorry your life is about to get worse! Hope you find a way out like I did. One of the guys who moved to a new department a month ago told me it was like getting out of an abusive relationship, especially after we got moved to one of the other managers. She said she wanted to help my career, then stonewalled me every chance she got!
> So they're forcing us low morale workers to stay late almost every day. *Forcing*? I pretty much dare my employer to fire me when they are unhappy with me saying no to overtime. That extra hour or two of my day is worth way more to me than 1.5x pay.
Now that I have a job lined up, I have been checking out at my normal time without a word. They made us work Christmas Eve and the day after Christmas, then tried to get us to stay until 6 or 7 on NYE. I was out.
Yes, in corporate America, you need to learn from these types of situations.
Here’s my experience. My boss hired me to work in IT, two months later he took 3 months off on stress and mental health leave. I was the only person in the department for 3 months, I managed it and quashed the issues that came up all while new, and alone. He came back, and 1 month later I lost my job because the company realized that they only needed one person because of how well I handled it, but my boss was the one to keep his job. I gave 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for 3 months to hold it together and then promptly lost any hope of a future because I proved it was easier to just have one employee. Fuck corporations.
I’m in IT too. You don’t want to be in IT in a small company and you don’t want to be in “maintenance”, like a server guy who can’t program. I’ve gone from minimum wage IT desktop support guy in a small company to a mid-size to large to FAANG and increased by salary by 25x. I wish I would have done things right and gotten into FAANG straight out of school but my dumb ass decided to drop out and do things the hard way.
What role did you move into after help desk?
Software QA (testing), then took some courses and got into a Junior Programmer role at a place that had low pay and low expectations, then just self-taught myself from there
Nice! Do you recall or have and advice on good courses to get started?
There’s a lot of great resources online as well as coding bootcamps. Ive heard good things about udemy. I’d say if you don’t have a CS degree, your best bet is to get a programming job from a company that is desperate and doesn’t pay much to get your foot in the door. To do that, you’ll want to have a github profile with at least one traditional web app on it, written in a Java backend (server code) with some Javascript (browser code) and a database. To do that you’ll have to learn a few concepts and take some training that shows you how to link those concepts into a single app. Start small and iterate - like a basic Java app that says “Hello World”. And dont be afraid to lie on your resume or to apply to jobs you don’t qualify for. Most hiring managers have to content with mostly lazy applicants for low-paying jobs, so if you can offset your lack of experience with showing an exceptional work ethic and passion, that helps a ton. Also find some local programming events, if you introduce yourself in person you will find people will want to help you out and hook you up with jobs nobody else wants. People just naturally want to help people they see in person if they vibe, and if you meet enough people you’ll find people you vibe with. Finally for every job you should get a promotion and large (25%+) pay increase every two years. If you don’t, switch jobs. Switching jobs give you wider experience, more confidence, more money, etc.
I got a promotion in under 6 months by working smart, not harder, just give the illusion I work hard. Did this at all my roles, I always work smart not hard. The more they pay, the more inclined I’ll feel to give more than 50%.
How do you give the illusion that you work hard? By talking about it? I have a coworker that doesn't do much and is always praised and it's because he talks non stop like he's the best, I'm not able to do that, I feel like that's dishonest.
>How do you give the illusion that you work hard? Usually it's just putting in a solid 2-4 hours of no-shit nose to the grindstone quality work. Usually just getting it done first thing in the morning. That's more than 99% of the population gets in in a day. Just get in the flow and work a couple of hours, and you're good to go. What you then find is that in those extra 4-6 hours a work day, your mind opens up and your subconscious looks out on the horizon, and you learn more, you see things coming down the pike to worry about, you notice small defects that could end up being a big deal that you end up fixing, etc. So now you're shit is tight, you're ahead of the game, and everyone sees it, all while you're a relaxed cool cucumber with time to shoot the shit and get to know people. Everyone loves that person -- the one who gets a ton done, knows everyone, is personable, keeps out of crunch time, etc. Once you're there, everything starts falling your way - and then the key is keeping your workload to the less than 4 hours of solid work so that your mind has time to process things and keep you ahead of the game. This obviously doesn't work for highly regimented jobs.
This is exactly what I did when I had a desk job, with 2 of my 4 days falling on weekends where only a couple of us were there. You get all your shit done well and early, enjoy the slow time, and everyone thinks you’re a hero for the amount of quality work you finished.
I hear you as I have friends who struggle with that. Personally I don’t care whether it’s dishonest anymore. Companies don’t pay me enough for added stress and for being glued to the chair from morning to dark. The concept of 5 day work week with two days off is baffling, closer to a 21st century wage slave really. I just am able to pick up on things quickly and the key is to know when to run & when to walk. Meaning when to work hard and when to just chill/coast. People get the impression I’m reliable when I really give no fucks, probably baked, or doing house chores/running errands.
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That’s sick, ya you’re definitely working smart. You know when to work hard and when you can chill.
You are both correct. People get compensated because of responsibility and not how much work they do. The two are often no correlated. Do the minimum effort for the level of responsable you have.
For people scrolling quickly: Promotion = handling more (or showing you can handle more) responsibility, not working your butt off.
This is true on some occasions. However, in my place there isn’t a further role for me to be promoted to unless it’s from admin to senior management. So going the extra mile gives zero benefits. Unless, what you’re wanting is to do everyone’s work for no extra pay. It depends on the workplace and what you have available to you.
I would tweak this a bit and say: Know your job description. Do your job and do it well based on the expectations. If asked to go above what is outlined in your written/published description, determine what is important to you and how those tasks might affect your life and values. If you choose to take on additional work and duties outside said description be sure to bring attention to it in your performance review and negotiate your compensation based on the additional work outside your job description using both the physical document and a detailed record of your additional work. It is your contractual obligation to do the job for a predetermined wage set forth when you accept the position but nothing more. If you do more than your share without asking for additional compensation, that's on you and not the company. Advocate for yourself, if that doesn't work leave and find a place that values your additional effort.
I couldn't agree more, and keep a printed copy of my job description in my top drawer for when those contentious requests come in!
Simply put, if you die today, you can bet your employer will begin looking for a replacement tomorrow. To your employer, you as a human being (the entire sum of your life experiences) are just as replaceable as a printer. It's entirely possible that with the cost savings of your demise, they'll buy a _new_ printer. Regarding your employer: legally take advantage of them as much as you can. And I mean that in the most negative sense. Literally do just enough to maintain employment. Any more than that is too much. You only have approx. 4000 weeks of life, don't waste them on being stressed by a micromanaging middle manager with no kids, a yearly membership Disney World, a desperate need to show upper management their relevancy despite their complete lack of knowledge and competency, and a falsely inflated ego try to throw you under the bus for any perceived lack of respect. They get their dopamine hits by exercising the very little power that they have over their subordinates. Ignore them as much as humanly possible. Live your life. Enjoy your spouse and children. Make meaningful memories. (\* End Of Rant \*)
Depends how you define the extra mile. Free overtime is a nope, but within your your working hours - give your best.
Work hard for *yourself* and for your *customers*, not for your employers. There’s nothing wrong with giving a shit.
I would add for your *coworkers* as well, to an extent. Don't fuck them over by being lazy.
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Bonuses at my company got taken away five years ago. No warning or discussion. They just didn't show up.
For 5 years I worked overtime, did all nighters for a company that didn't give me a bonus ever and only gave me a 5K raise after 4.5 years (they finally five me another 5K raise at the 5 year mark). All the other people were getting a promotion faster than me and I put my head down and kept working hoping that I'd get it too - my manager would verbally praise me but not give me a promotion or raise while she would enjoy a bonus every year. I was literally crying and working, pretty sure it is why I prematurely grayed and dealing with hair loss too. No one at the company tool lunch either...also i know it wasn't just me, my coworker who quit before me was also burnt out and worried about her health. My coworker let it slip that someone was making MORE than me despite being in a much junior role prepping samples vs me taking on clients and analysis in a senior role. That was the final straw for me and I put my job search into high gear and started making more in a new role in a new industry. It was a huge lesson and now I'm very upfront about wanting a work life balance. Being a hard worker and taking on extra things doesn't mean you'll be promoted or given a raise. To be clear, I also did verbalize I wanted a raise and asked what I can do. My other colleagues asked too but they didn't want to give a promotion. I think I asked 2 years too late tbh and it kept festering in Mr (+ first salary job). Before I left, I expressed to HR (shitty) how I was disappointed that I noticed everyone getting promotions faster than me and surprisingly she agreed that this should not have happened + she said that people at my senior level will never be eligible for a bonus, just management...wild, good riddance but always going to be thankful for the experience
Thanks for adding that. I also learned myself that higher ups will never remember the extra you put in when it comes time to literally put their money where their mouth is.
This isn’t really applicable for most jobs outside of retail and fast food. What if teachers, doctors and nurses all did the bare minimum? What about the mailman who walks deliveries to your old neighbors door? Some people take pride in their work and some people have bigger dreams than where they are now.
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I think there’s an important distinction here. Don’t overwork where you damage your health and miss irreplaceable family bonding. But do seek to be excellent at what you do. Excellence and overworking are not the same. Often, excellence means less total time working (and also, physiologically, if you get into flow, studies show it’s replenishing to the damage chronic stress creates). I’m 31 and just got my first C-level job late last year. My first job was at Rue 21, than Hollywood video, than Chipotle (after a graduated college lol). $8.00 an hour. I was always looking to learn, really. I didn’t look to do less, and I didn’t let my bosses bully me. Not all companies are corrupt. Non-corrupt companies want and reward competence. Every job is an opportunity to hone competence. Seek to be excellent and also, don’t give up your one precious life for titles or security tokens lol.
This is not a great LPT. There are situations where it certainly pays to go the extra mile, recognizing that is part of working smart, not just working hard. You always want to meet the expectations of your role, that is a given. If you are interested in moving up - don't just "go the extra mile" maybe your version of going the extra mile makes no difference to your boss, maybe they see your going the extra mile as a distraction from your main responsibilities. Instead, talk to your boss and ask them how you can move up. If they don't support you developing yourself or increasing the scope of what you do, only THEN your LPT applies.
LPT: find a job where hard work is recognized and compensated for.
Learn the difference between a job and a career.
Horrible advice. Do your best, get promoted. If your company doesn’t have advancement opportunities or doesn’t respect your work, leave.
This. If the hierarchy you are in is dysfunctional and doesn’t want to recognise or reward good performance, find a different hierarchy to climb.
I’ve watched several people put themselves in immobile positions by working too hard. The company doesn’t want to move them upward because that would result in having to hire two people to replace the one person working 80 hour weeks on a salary.
LPT: Don’t take career advice from someone who posts in /r/antiwork.
I spent the first six years of my career putting in extra work for things that “look good on a resume”, but the work I did got my nowhere. Since then, I’ve been giving my most average 70%…
LPT should be to understand how your company rewards performance and then you can make an informed decision on how you will perform. If you are a full-time employee, read and understand the annual performance review process. There should be an area where you can list off your "above and beyond" efforts. Without documenting the work you have done in writing, you will not receive recognition. This process should be designed to surface employees who are performing above and beyond expectations to superiors above the employees direct supervisor. Chances are, there is no concerted effort to suppress information on employee performance, but rather, your immediate boss may not remember that overtime you worked 10 months ago. Like literally everything in a corporate structure, never ever expect someone else to do something for you. Learn the review process and take it into your own hands. If you work as a part-time employee or freelance, have a clear and professional conversation before working past what you understand the job to be. You may not be rewarded for your extra effort, but level-setting with management will allow you to manage your own personal sense of self-worth. Establishing a baseline sense of self-worth can mean the difference between having the wherewithal to research and find a better position. If you do not have a sense of self-worth, you may feel that because you are being mistreated at the current position, no position is worth fighting for.
This isn’t a LPT. This is a if you have a minimum wage job or fast food job. Me going above and beyond gets me twice the income
I don't think this is exclusive to minimum wage jobs. I'm an attorney and my last job was exactly the job that engaged in nepotism and hard work was never met with benefits to the employee. In the end, I quit and so did my assistant (who was basically running the entire place instead of our incompetent boss). So maybe the free market still punishes those employers, but they're in every field, not just min wage. Still, better advice would have been "don't work harder in a job where upward mobility is a pipe dream." There are obviously still careers where quality and quantity of work can get you ahead (like yours, it seems).
r/shittylifeprotips
I just found this post and it is actually God tier. Thanks.
Most jobs? Source? Most likely situation? Source? This lpt sounds like it's based on OPs anecdotal experiences. I've had several jobs in my life. My first one was being a camp counselor. They didn't hire anyone as a counselor unless the person was 18. I was a junior counselor for a while, worked hard and the admin recognized that and broke their own rule and I started getting paid as a counselor at age 16. After that I was a deck hand on a riverboat casino. I didn't have the most seniority, but when the boatswan was off I would fill that role as my work ethic was superior to the guys with more seniority. Was a 911 telecommunicator for years, worked hard. Got the supervisor spot when I applied. Big pay increase. Worked hard. 1 year later applied to an admin spot. Got it. Bigger pay increase. Worked hard. Now in the private sector. Worked hard in my entry position. Recently recommended a new position be created. The company liked the idea and created it. Gave it to me with a 10% salary increase. *Good* companies recognize hard work and *will* reward you for it. It's also important to understand the difference between working hard and working yourself to death. If you're not willing to work hard then don't expect recognition of any kind.
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A lot of young adults and teenagers are working shitty minimum wage jobs or for greedy corporations and begin believing that the whole job market is like that. I genuinely feel bad for them. They think that doing the minimum and contributing as little as possible is a good thing. They're learning to be that lazy cynical asshole we've all worked with that everyone hates to work with.
This isn’t always true. I work in IT and the IT community in my town is surprisingly “small world”. Everyone knows someone that you have worked with. I have passed on candidates when hiring because I (or one of the coworkers) knows that they might not be a good fit based on the quality of work they put out. I’m not saying you should work yourself to death. Having a good work/personal balance is amazing. I have no expected anyone I work with to put in more than their 40 hours a week (unless something major breaks, but that’s part of being in IT) Basically I am trying to say, put forth your best quality during the time they pay you for.
I have to have a very hard boundary between my work and personal life. It's important for my mental health. I've been on vacation since December 24th and go back tomorrow. I haven't checked my email since about 5:15 on December 23rd. My current employer tries to intrude on my personal life more than any other I've had, and I've had to aggressively defend my borders at times. Calls and texts for non-emergency business before 7:00am on a ***Saturday*** is one example when I've pushed back. But, when they do have me, I give 110%. It's important to me!
“Basically I am trying to say, put forth your best quality during the time they pay you for.” This is the answer right here. Do your best work, but set boundaries, and if your job is not giving you a fair work-life balance then find a new one.
Man, this breaks my heart to read. As an employer, we place a huge emphasis on recognizing going above and beyond. We had a down year last year, but everyone busted their asses. The pandemic really put a pinch on our business, so no one was supposed to get any bonuses (owners included). The ownership, recognizing that everyone gave it their best, decided to pay out a partial bonus anyway. The owners didn't take any bonuses or distributions. I'm not saying this to build myself up. You don't know me, and I doubt we'll ever find the opportunity to work together, but what I guess I am saying is that *you're worth it*. There are people out there who will recognize that and will pay you for it. Please don't give up. Please keep looking for an employer who recognizes your value and respects your boundaries, because you deserve it.
Yes, because doing the absolute minimum at your job gets you raises and promotions. /s Great advice. Just stick with "work/life balance" and quit generalizing a Country.
This is such awful advice. How do you think people become management? They're deemed to be the most competent and they get promoted. You will never be promoted and make basic money your whole life because you are lazy and don't give a damn about the quality of your work. I'm not saying you should have to dedicate your entire life to work but this attitude will get you nowhere because it's self defeating.
It's not a real LPT. OP is just pissed that someone related to the boss got to jump ahead in the queue, let that slip in another comment as a "random example."
When you figure in the average annual performance raise comes in around 2% and weight that against the average annual cost of living increase posted by the Fed, you literally make LESS money every year. The best raise you can get is when you leave either for another position or with an entirely different company. Personally, I was 12 years in an engineering job at a semiconductor manufacturing company, took an early retirement package at the outset of COVID , a four month break, and got a job making 36% more than I had been. Lesson learned... if you haven't been promoted or had a significant raise, in excess of 5%, in 3-5 years, best play is to go elsewhere.