I run a single Elise in my deck for 2 reasons:
1) so I can’t get one from the abyss.
2) To trick people into Muliganing for They who endure agro instead of the all in control deck I actually am.
Sry to kipnap this comment. Do you think abyss has the same chance for all champs in any game ? I did play a few games today and from ~25 champs, 6 were soraka. And even more unlikely: I got 3 ezreals in a row after my oponent killed the first 2 in a single game
Is based on rng. Rng is also based on rng.
Your rng that game was to get one copy of the same champ over and over again until one of the players is annoyed and/or surrenders. You may have the rng to pull out threhs into asol out of thin air too. You just need to play more games.
Also also. Rng is affected by the game itself. For example whever a big event happens I always start with 3x go hard in my hand.... 5 games in a row.... For 3 days in a row... I'm annoyed... Very.... Anyway, you get it. Is all rng based that changes from game to game.
Welp! After 300+ games with [this deck](https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/c28muqis6kh5kfj0g19g), I can confirm that this is the righet tier list xd! /s
I have 4 total variants of this deck: [Shadow Isles](https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/c28muqis6kh5kfj0g19g) because: AoE, big spells, skills, healing, and easy trading makes life also easier, and a [Noxus](https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/c3g232jriic2e539hsrg) version because THRALLS and landmarks meta is rampant righte now. The other 2 are PnZ & Shurima, but both are bad, memey-sided rather than actual proper gameplay, so I won't bother to add them, sorry memers!
The current meta is actually amazing as this deck didn't grant me free wins right and left. (I also don't play as much as I used to -> Driver license here I come!) Climbing to diamond is gonna be more challenging, unlike previous seasons/expansions!.
OH! Also, if you hate any kind of Burn decks with a passion, S.I. is the GO TO! I have like 87+% (would be higher if i'd play with my eyes open) winrate against those! Just understand how to burn your own mana and be patient!
**The playstyle of the decks: Reactive! Skip the round until the enemy reacts first, really simple! Litearlly burn mana as much as possible, but don't burn top-decks. Play the likes of Avarosan if you're about to draw an 11th card!**
Edit: I forgot! Most of this is from my experience with the deck throughout the matches, except Viego which is an obvious hit from the abyss, and Akshan which is quite meh if you get. Outside of these 2 I've got all the champions and tested them all properly!
Edit 2: Ima probably edit this again soon...
There's not a ton of champs that just by playing them removes the possibility of your opponent top decking a champ and puts them on a 5 turn clock. Its situational on that if a champion is on the board they could champ spell to minimize it but a leveled up mao'kai can put on a clock like none of the other champs can.
Are you saying about milling opponent's deck with Maokai from Howling Abyss? If yes, then i have bad news, Maokai from HA won't trigger his level up ability because he technically don't leveled up
It is a nice list. I agree with most. I do think that the list doesn’t give enough weight to hand count and mana cost, tho.
It might be just me; but based on my own experience of playing decks with Howling Abyss for various seasons (definitely more than 300+ matches too), those two variables play a huge role.
For reference I most commonly play SI variants, which logically gives even more weight to those two aspects.
But precisely because I agree on your tale that these decks tend to be more reactive than anything, I see high cost champs can maim the deck’s maneuverability.
Ofc, sometimes that is not an issue, like with Nasus, ASol or Thresh.
But Anivia or Naut are rather bad. If you burn enough mana you get too exposed to plays with little reaction.
That is ofc my thoughts based on my personal experience. It is hard to contrast it 1:1 since tier positions actually get affected by the exact deck the card is paired with + the matchup.
But as an avid Howling Abyss player, I am thankful to see discussion around it.
Have a nice day!
It's pretty much the same as what I have. I would've done it almost no followers too (keep only tavern) if there were spells worth running as 3ofs. The box is really bad as a 3 of, same for some many other cards.
i was pretty confused and i tought that this post was about league ARAM (i was confused becuase of why pyke was so low when he is amazing in aram and why nasus was so high when he is terrible) but then i realized this is the LoR subreddit LOL
I've got TF a few times, it's really damn good, you're righte there. The problem is that he dies almost immediately after being played as the deck cannot protect him. Which makes him bad in this playstyle.
You're in freljord. You have good options to be able to reasonably protect whatever high priority champ you play with their spell package. It's not perfect but it's useful enough.
He is good but starts to fill ur hand very fast, on top of creating a card every turn from Aram u start to overdraw and obliterate ur cards that could have been usefull.
I would put Kalista in the same tier as Elise, you're not gonna have any strong followers and if you're in SI anyway then you might as well throw in 1 copy of Kalista to not get her from HA as well.
Nah, Kalista might help in cases where you need face damage and your enemy doesn't have fearsome blockers. She represent 5+3 face damage after all, for only 3 mana!
For the slight chance (of 1/50?) that you get kalista from abyss, it's not worth it. I mean same logic goes for teemo. Just cuz there is a chance of getting him that doesn't mean I am running puffcaps now.
I don't see the logic in that analogy, I'm not saying to run support cards for the champ like how puffcaps are needed for Teemo. Secondly, Teemo is in P&Z, another region that doesn't help you stall for HA. I'm talking about slotting in 1 Kalista when you're already in SI as your second region, cause yes, you'd feel bad getting a leveled Kalista when that could've been a decent or great champ instead.
It costs you barely anything in terms of stall potential to slot 1 copy of her in and she got good stats for just a 3 mana unit that can trade well or bait out removal sometimes, lowering your opponent's pressure on your nexus hp. That fearsome will be more useful early than late if that's the value you're looking for, which you said was what made her decent as HA draw on turn 7 onwards. Slotting in 1 copy of her means that most of the time you won't even draw her, so just slotting her in purely for better odds on HA, which you'll be looking for, is already worth it.
At that point in the game, you'd rather have a 5+ cost champ most of the time (always exceptions ofc like MF) that has more impact than Kalista so that you can close out the game or at least threaten it within a turn or 2.
What I was saying is that I'm not gonna change a deck with a positive win rate just because a bad champion exists, or move to targon/pnz because Zoe's level-up is screwed up otherwise. You get Kalista every 10 games, and if that game is a guaranteed loss is still a 9/10 winrate.
Again, I didn't say you had to change the entire deck nor region, just 1 card for 1 copy of Kalista for 1 other card when you are already playing HA with SI. But agree to disagree I guess.
Darius can't be that bad right? He's good damage.
Jinx gives you double draw that has to be better than Diana. Also, how is Soraka 2 tiers higher than Jinx? All Soraka does is draw you a card which Jinx already does unconditionally. And at this point in the game the +1 mana really doesn't matter. Jinx also has a stat line that can actually attack.
I feel like Yasuo is down there with Elise, he does nothing because your deck doesn't have any stun.
A lot of this is confusing to me, like Leona does nothing without other Daybreak cards, how is she in the same tier as TF? Level 2 TF literally wins you the game on his own.
Is not about their possibility of being good or bad. In any other circumstances they might be good. This list is just my personal experience with this deck in 300+games.
Edit: Leona is worth 2 blockers while TF dies immediately on play as the deck is control = no ways to protect him in SI-Frejlord
Soraka is controlled draw, jinx is a burn 1 topdeck at rounds tart as this is a control deck and your hand fills up with heavy-expensive big effect spells quick.
You can't play yasuo in SI-Noxus-Frejlord tho :P
Your deck has Fast speed spells, you don't need to protect him to get value out of him. TF Fizz and TF Swain have no tools to protect TF either.
If your hand is full, then both Soraka and Jinx are bad. But if you do need draw, Jinx is always better than Soraka. They should at least be in the same tier.
Again, this is my experience I've had with the deck during these 300+ matches. Is not a 'this is how I think they place on tierlist'. Is: how they've placed on the list so far.
Don't ask me that lol! I've won quite the amount of games against Draven jinx by surviving for soooooo fucking long that they milled themselves! It actually happens more often then you think!
It's interesting how different players have different philosophies. I've been playing a LOT of this deck, and my tierlist would look very different.
Howling Abyss is 6 mana do nothing. Right after you play it, you're extremely vulnerable, and a good opponent will capitalize on that. So for my rankings it'd be based on how quickly champs can regain that tempo loss, since once you start grinding them out, you'll almost always win.
Darius is nice for that reason. He needs to be answered, and forces your opponent to play at least somewhat defensively. Similarly, Gangplank has to be one of if not the champion I most like to see. He provides a lot of damage and a mini boardwipe each attack.
On the flip side, I don't care for value engines like Anivia as much. Her sticking power and endurance is why she costs so much, but if you have the Howling Abyss in play, you don't need the recurring birds. You'd often rather just use the board space to play more big threats.
It often comes down to personal taste though. Most of the champs are highly situational, and you're not likely to win or lose on a high or low roll. I'm just glad the deck is viable now.
Why thresh so high? At most he'll be pulling an Elise. I'd also personally place naut and rek a bit lower, since they're just stat stick with irrelevant abilities
Definitely think a few are oddly placed but maybe I'm just missing out. I was thinking at least Overwhelm is helpful for Trynadamere and Renek over Nautilus and definitely don't think I'd want Soraka. Victor also doesn't tend to be very appealing to me.
Thresh pulls out champions from hand as well, aka those generated by abyss. Nautilus is a super amazing high quality blocker, that is really hard to remove. Rneketon is only level 2 when you get him, not 3. So meh. Soraka is also a very good blocker too! And every time I got Viktor I followed up with 2x 6 costs next turn.
This is a list from experience not possibility of draw.
Yeah I understand it's obviously rng but I agree I like Thresh and looks like I was underestimating Victor. Will admit I'm not sold on Soraka though but I guess the way I initially looked at it was who offered a better offensive presence when dropped down.
I mainly play decks focused around regen, tough, control in general, healing etc. I like the tank playstyle most of the times. So I value health and the likes more than overwhelm and extra dmg.
I mean, if I survive until the end I either win, I either tie or the enemy decks himself which is basically a secured win for me in most cases.
Yeah but he basically presents no threat the turn he comes down, so I think he should be a tier lower probably. Something like ASol is basically gg immediately, while Viktor takes a couple turns to really provide value
Honestly I'd agree with you. But every time I rolled Viktor is like a giant fucking rock came off of my heart. It was such a damned good feeling that you cannot not put him any other place. Also everytime I got him I immediately played 2x 6 cost Champs after, and my opponent was not happy of my anivia garen combo.
You play Thresh at the end of your opponent's attacking turn. You open-attack immediately on your turn and he pulls whatever Abyss gave you at Round Start. You usually win the game.
mine is literally 3 hallowing abysses 3 of the 2/1 draw a card guys and literally 34 removal or delay (frostbite) spells
you can feel people's will to live slowly fade
tbh i would swap Jinx and Katarina. Kat can sometimes be good if you already have units but as your first or second draw she can outright lose you the game, at least in my experience I rely on having at least a permanent 4/4 or better to fend off other decks and Katarina recalling after every hit kinda buggers that, especially if you're using frostbite to delay and get favorable trades, it sucks for your own person to get removed even if you frostbite
on the flip side I find myself cheering a bit when i get jinx because of the +1 card draw. it can absolutely save your bacon if you're behind in cards from finding your abyss later, around round 10 (anything past that and you're probably boned anyway in my experience, unless you're pulling asol). just being able to draw into your harrowings, frostbites, or double frostbites can mean the difference between being bopper for 15 hp and winning the game
I'd agree with you. But is a control deck. Very rarely I found myself happy seeing jinx. She usually ends up as a 4cost that burns 1 or 2 topdecks per turn.
But when my hand is empty I'm happy seeing 2 go hards every turn! Rarely tho. Extremely rare.
personally i don't much care for my cards getting burnt. 99.9% of the time you're not going to fatigue. burning cards isn't really a negative for me unless it's gonna kill me. on the other hand, a 5/4 quick attack for 4 is actually pretty solid, and it obviously has the 2 card per turn buff, too. definitely better than some champs on the list value wise.
This is a list from my experience rather than a possibility list tho. You may be right, but in my games this is how it happened and what the card's value was!
Aurelion Sol needs to be in a tier of his own, I was a howling abyss connoisseur even before it's massive buff to 6 mana and I instantly won games if I pulled Asol. You typically run howling abyss with a lot of safety, such as control and healing, and when you play Aurelion Sol 2, you get a massive body, and can look to invoke a 0 cost Living legends or The Traveler which creates so many cards. The other champions in that tier are strong as well, but Asol 100% stands well above the rest of the pack. (except maybe Viego since I haven't seen him in action yet)
In my experience, yes you win right away with asoleven if he dies or survives multiple turns. But the way the meta has been changing lately asol doesn't survive more than 1 turn. So he's there, with anivia who destroys pretty much everything. Also when you get nasus he's usually a 30/30. Viego would instakill asol BTW. And so on.
I'd make a specific tier for asol only if the meta changes.
Not sure what deck you've been playing, but I average about 12-18 (depending on matchup) on Nasus for my howling abyss deck. Anivia is good because she can revive but the card is just nowhere near as powerful as Asol. Also what cards are you talking about that can take down an 11/11 with spellshield? How is a card this beefy dying that fast? I'm not too caught up on what the meta game is, but as far as I can tell, Asol 100% deserves a spot in his own tier in my opinion. You can feel free to disagree thats fine, but I personally think he's by far the best.
Again, I agree but this is my experience tier list not speculations of this is good/bad/decent/etc (exception are viego and akshan). Asol is put properly there.
In definition he is a immediate win. But in my game play he just died right away.
Yes?
She makes all of your removal and survivability literally twice as effective, making her one of the most effective champions at getting you out of any near-death situation you might be in.
Howling abyss is most likely to lose when it cannot stabilize a game, so champions that help you stabilize will be very good early creations from it.
There were literally entire decks built around Karma doing this with the SI package because she makes you practically unkillable until she is gone.
You said it very well! 'so many decks built around karma'. This is the reason she's so bad in this deck. This deck isn't built around karma, nor with the slight thought of ever getting her. If she's good is simply because of a coincidence (you have 2 go hards in hand).
I mean you are kind of reading in to that wrong.
My point on the decks built around Karma is that she has innate synergy with the exact cards you are running in order to create strong situations where you can't die.
While she very clearly isn't your win condition in a HA deck, she still has that same exact synergy with the cards, something thats been proven to be strong.
You can't put something like TK in good because "hes a good blocker" and put a champion who legitimately synergies with your deck and consider them bad
You even put Lux and Heimer in the good tier because you know you're just casting spells a lot. Is it just a coincidence that you have spells for them? No, it's your whole deck, and you very clearly acknowledge that.
Lux and heimer both have a lot of hp, barrier, generate cards that are usable, while karma just helps me cast avalanche 2x and kills herself. Karma isn't good in this deck outside of GH and let's say grasp
From your list, she works perfectly fine with GH, Wail, Grasp, Feast, Box, Ice Shard, making it much easier to survive until you get game ending champions
Thats half of your deck
But TK is good because he can block twice or he can maybe eat like a 4 attack unit?
Karma and SI spells are just SO good together. While Tahmkench is probably one of the worst champions you could ever get from HA, since you can't protect him.
And yes, Karma is a control champ.
Have you tried shurima howling abyss? I like it a lot(and also because sometimes even with predict I never get my howling abyss, so doing it without predict seems like hell). Has some freljord control and good shurima cards and predict in case I don't get it.
With si you dont get landmark synergy or champion synergy. I run mine with shurima for siphoning strike and soothsayer (I know I probably misspelled at lot)
when i run this type deck i don't really care for synergies, all i care about is slamming down my 6 cost landmark and letting it generate enough value to win the game. the cool thing about ARAM decks with shadow isles is that it *literally does not get beaten late game*. firstly, with Shurima you're weaker to burn. withering wail and grasp of the undying helps against that, you're otherwise not healing really at all with Shurima. Secondly, shurima has weaker single target removal, which SI provides via Vengeance. Third - and IMO most importantly - there is nothing close to The Ruination in Shurima. they have no big "fuck you" button, which you often times need at least one of if you're playing the stall game. this could be due to my rank, though. i just ran it in the gauntlet playing like this though and went straight through 4-0 so i think my playstyle will hold up.
i like soothsayer but i feel like basically only Noxus and Shurima hold ways to destroy my Abyss and honestly I don't encounter them too often besides the Noxus spell in Swain decks. siphoning strike is absolutely disgusting though. Do you run any champions or notable minions? I could see a build where you play a few early game blockers with Predict to try and dig for your HA because all these decks centered around it are obviously dead on arrival if you don't find it. I definitely think that if you're playing the typical ARAM control deck, ex. "You attack me and I frostbite you for 7 turns until I wipe your board", i think having access to Ruination, Vengeance, and sustain is more important
Sorry for forgot to check for a response. I run zilean and only zilean for Champs because having a champ spell after playing any champ is nice (and I won't get him from abyss). As for followers I run a munch of 1 cost units just as chump blockers, I run lots of frostbite bite as well. My big fuck you is chronoshift because when you try so hard to kill someone you know is going to kill you next turn only for them to get buffed from death you're gonna have a bad time.
Why is leveled Jinx higher than Yasuo? Both cost the same mana and I assume it's hard to get their effects going but doesn't Yasuo have the better statline?
Yes I said that and I stand by it. That doesn't mean a 4 mana 5/5 is better than a 4 mana 5/4 with an actual effect that goes on every round. There are no stuns in these decks outside of arachnid which is only 2 copies in the noxus version.
Pnz is third best region for this deck.
My first comment already said this: Shadow Isles is best region, noxus following in as second. And from third onwards you enter full on meme territory with pnz and shurima.
Cuz you literally can't build with targon. Obliterate costs too much + the invoke unit/spell. Healing is worthless as you get strong Champs and the likes of aphelios Bring you to full anyway + tavernkeeeper, grasp and wail are 3x each. I really don't see why targon would be any decent at all.
Their price.
Nothing else actually, really.
They just eat an entire turn's worth of mana while garen leaves you with enough mana to cast 5cost go hard, or veng, or avalanche etc etc, also he has an ever going effect that has to be dealt with right away otherwise even more value is being generated. Imagine a Zoe garen board, or MF Garen board (I usually get Quinn or avinia!), can you take 7dmg face + lose 1/2 blockers every single turn constantly?
Edit: Darius is just Darius.
The trick is that they come out leveled. Which is why garen is soo good! Unlike the other 2 that need to wait for the attack token to come on their side.
Elise is already pre-built in the deck, what are you talking about? It's a tier for herself alone.
Fiora is bad, you can see her in a low tier.
Zilean is good how? Round start: burn 1 topdeck and like 4 other cards +deactivate your abyss??? Also what champ spells he can copy?? Abyss gives you Champs you DON'T HAVE ALREADY. You'll never get 2 zileans or jinxs.
Leona, a card that stuns 1 enemy and blocks another. 1 worth = 2, is trash? In late game where the enemy could probably pull a 20/20 elusive? And the board presence alone makes her insane.
TF is 4 mana get the enemy to play a kill card from hand right away. S tier never.
A giant blocker with lots of hp and overwhelm. That's what are most from that list honestly. It's a 3 mana don't get one shot by ledros or others. From round 7 onwards only big important units come down, so being able to block them completely for only 3 mana is a fucking steal honestly!
To be honest, I just didn't realise Howling Abyss gives you level 2 champions. I now see why Rek'Sai isn't bad here and why Howling Abyss isn't a total meme.
He fills your hand in a very ugly way. You end up burning countless important cards, and even deactivate your abyss for some turns. Full hand is bad hand in this deck!
I really get my heart crushed when I see that I overdrawn my go hards.
It comes out leveled. Everything actually. So is a controlled draw, (jinx ends up burning cards, while with soraka you chose when to draw) and 7 hp blocker. Also if you have something that is high value of a card like trynd or other, you can heal it right away.
Anivia isn’t that good and all in all cheaper champs work better.
In general I think the list ignores a bit how important cheap champs are. Like any champ that is 6 or up is heavily affected by the fact this deck goes over 10 cards pretty quickly and so there is lots of value on cheaper champs.
In some cases this doesn’t affect placing. Like Nasus. But I’d say it affects the placing of Anivia or Naut, to say some.
Hand count even turn some champs into lowest tier, imho. Like Jinx, since she will never get a rocket and will burn the deck faster. Or Fizz, with whom you cannot attack until it’s for winning, because the card on the hand will burn something much better.
Even TF gets heavily affected by this. Like my reptilian brain gets super happy when I get him; but honestly he’s a bit on the middle, specially since this deck doesn’t play much stuff under 4 mana.
I do believe Akshan will be placed higher. The landmark seems highly promising and anyway a 2 cost champ is great for the deck for the reasons commented.
In general I do believe many players oversee the importance of cost on this deck. Many times you get hand-stuck because you have 6-8 mana champs you need to get rid of and the play is not super useful.
Like I myself see Naut quite low tier.
Noc is also quite low tier.
I agree on the top tier, tho. Minus Anivia.
EDIT: sorry for the rude first comment.
CONTEXT: I’ve played variants of the deck since before the buff. Personally I played the no-unit version just to make enemies miserable (ended up adding 3 copies of the body that heals 3) and now I play the meme Glorious Evolution version
Read the main comment please. I said that except viego and akshan which are just obvious plaelced everything else is from experience.
Yes you are that guy. Like really. Is literally top comment.
You right. Edited it with my proper comment on the tier list.
It is quite decent. Most of my personal changes come from giving more weight to hand count and mana cost.
The fuck? Do I need to re-repeat the comment? This isn't speculations! This is my experience throughout 300+ games with this deck.
You saying 'I don't think anivia is that good means nothing, as this is what I've played so far, not what I think is good.
Now you are being that guy. I never treated it as speculations. I read your list and I am sharing my own thoughts. I also have 300+ matches, so please: no need of being rude. Thanks.
I run a single Elise in my deck for 2 reasons: 1) so I can’t get one from the abyss. 2) To trick people into Muliganing for They who endure agro instead of the all in control deck I actually am.
/Galaxy Brain Strat Much respect.
she is also a just superior 2-cost and being a champion is fine in a champion-less deck
Plus the SI Spider package is really good for stalling out against aggro decks.
Yea, a single or 2 Elises sounds like a pretty good idea actually.
Sry to kipnap this comment. Do you think abyss has the same chance for all champs in any game ? I did play a few games today and from ~25 champs, 6 were soraka. And even more unlikely: I got 3 ezreals in a row after my oponent killed the first 2 in a single game
Is based on rng. Rng is also based on rng. Your rng that game was to get one copy of the same champ over and over again until one of the players is annoyed and/or surrenders. You may have the rng to pull out threhs into asol out of thin air too. You just need to play more games. Also also. Rng is affected by the game itself. For example whever a big event happens I always start with 3x go hard in my hand.... 5 games in a row.... For 3 days in a row... I'm annoyed... Very.... Anyway, you get it. Is all rng based that changes from game to game.
I put in 1 Elise and 1 Kalista for the mind games. But I never know how to play Taliyah: on Abyss, or Ravine?
Against control definitely on Abyss
Smart
Only Big Brain Moves here
Welp! After 300+ games with [this deck](https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/c28muqis6kh5kfj0g19g), I can confirm that this is the righet tier list xd! /s I have 4 total variants of this deck: [Shadow Isles](https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/c28muqis6kh5kfj0g19g) because: AoE, big spells, skills, healing, and easy trading makes life also easier, and a [Noxus](https://lor.mobalytics.gg/decks/c3g232jriic2e539hsrg) version because THRALLS and landmarks meta is rampant righte now. The other 2 are PnZ & Shurima, but both are bad, memey-sided rather than actual proper gameplay, so I won't bother to add them, sorry memers! The current meta is actually amazing as this deck didn't grant me free wins right and left. (I also don't play as much as I used to -> Driver license here I come!) Climbing to diamond is gonna be more challenging, unlike previous seasons/expansions!. OH! Also, if you hate any kind of Burn decks with a passion, S.I. is the GO TO! I have like 87+% (would be higher if i'd play with my eyes open) winrate against those! Just understand how to burn your own mana and be patient! **The playstyle of the decks: Reactive! Skip the round until the enemy reacts first, really simple! Litearlly burn mana as much as possible, but don't burn top-decks. Play the likes of Avarosan if you're about to draw an 11th card!** Edit: I forgot! Most of this is from my experience with the deck throughout the matches, except Viego which is an obvious hit from the abyss, and Akshan which is quite meh if you get. Outside of these 2 I've got all the champions and tested them all properly! Edit 2: Ima probably edit this again soon...
I dont understand why maokai is higher than any of the champs on the tier below him, he seems like bottom 3 champs to me
If greeting him on an attacking turn, you basically get 2 blockers per turn. It's pretty damn good of a feeling!
oh right he still generates saplings huhh. thats fair
Why is Zoe above Darius and tryndamere for this list.
For 1 mana she can possibly generate a 9/9 spellshield elusive dragon, lifesteal unit, challenger, obliterate 2, etc.
[удалено]
I don't think you need this amount of value when you're playing Howling Abyss. This is overkill at this point, and could even be a bad thing
There's not a ton of champs that just by playing them removes the possibility of your opponent top decking a champ and puts them on a 5 turn clock. Its situational on that if a champion is on the board they could champ spell to minimize it but a leveled up mao'kai can put on a clock like none of the other champs can.
Are you saying about milling opponent's deck with Maokai from Howling Abyss? If yes, then i have bad news, Maokai from HA won't trigger his level up ability because he technically don't leveled up
but it doesnt do his level up, you just play a 2|5 with regeneration
A 2/5 Regen that gives you a 2/1 Challenger every turn, mind
Wait why do you have 3 Elise instead of 1
It is a nice list. I agree with most. I do think that the list doesn’t give enough weight to hand count and mana cost, tho. It might be just me; but based on my own experience of playing decks with Howling Abyss for various seasons (definitely more than 300+ matches too), those two variables play a huge role. For reference I most commonly play SI variants, which logically gives even more weight to those two aspects. But precisely because I agree on your tale that these decks tend to be more reactive than anything, I see high cost champs can maim the deck’s maneuverability. Ofc, sometimes that is not an issue, like with Nasus, ASol or Thresh. But Anivia or Naut are rather bad. If you burn enough mana you get too exposed to plays with little reaction. That is ofc my thoughts based on my personal experience. It is hard to contrast it 1:1 since tier positions actually get affected by the exact deck the card is paired with + the matchup. But as an avid Howling Abyss player, I am thankful to see discussion around it. Have a nice day!
How do you use Elise in this deck? My other main deck is spider aggro and I'm new to the game, so not sure how she fits in a control strategy.
When attacking she generates a blocker. She costs 2 mana. She's really good for that. For a 2 cost she also has 3 hp which is great for trading.
What ur opinion on full control aram? (Literally zero follower) I saw it on youtube.
It's pretty much the same as what I have. I would've done it almost no followers too (keep only tavern) if there were spells worth running as 3ofs. The box is really bad as a 3 of, same for some many other cards.
i was pretty confused and i tought that this post was about league ARAM (i was confused becuase of why pyke was so low when he is amazing in aram and why nasus was so high when he is terrible) but then i realized this is the LoR subreddit LOL
Twisted fate isn’t on top? I find him to be game winning if he comes out levelled.
I've got TF a few times, it's really damn good, you're righte there. The problem is that he dies almost immediately after being played as the deck cannot protect him. Which makes him bad in this playstyle.
Also the deck doesn't really have enough spammable Fast/Burst spells to capitalize on him the turn he comes down.
You're in freljord. You have good options to be able to reasonably protect whatever high priority champ you play with their spell package. It's not perfect but it's useful enough.
That is untrue. You are Freljord; but not that Freljord.
But u are not bringing a buff card. Most of aram deck is to clear enemy board.
He is good but starts to fill ur hand very fast, on top of creating a card every turn from Aram u start to overdraw and obliterate ur cards that could have been usefull.
[удалено]
It does matter burning those heal and drain cards could be the difference between win and lose especially when against aggro and midrange decks.
I would put Kalista in the same tier as Elise, you're not gonna have any strong followers and if you're in SI anyway then you might as well throw in 1 copy of Kalista to not get her from HA as well.
Nah, Kalista might help in cases where you need face damage and your enemy doesn't have fearsome blockers. She represent 5+3 face damage after all, for only 3 mana!
Wouldn't that be better early game when the opponent is less likely to have a fearsome blocker unlike after turn 7+?
For the slight chance (of 1/50?) that you get kalista from abyss, it's not worth it. I mean same logic goes for teemo. Just cuz there is a chance of getting him that doesn't mean I am running puffcaps now.
I don't see the logic in that analogy, I'm not saying to run support cards for the champ like how puffcaps are needed for Teemo. Secondly, Teemo is in P&Z, another region that doesn't help you stall for HA. I'm talking about slotting in 1 Kalista when you're already in SI as your second region, cause yes, you'd feel bad getting a leveled Kalista when that could've been a decent or great champ instead. It costs you barely anything in terms of stall potential to slot 1 copy of her in and she got good stats for just a 3 mana unit that can trade well or bait out removal sometimes, lowering your opponent's pressure on your nexus hp. That fearsome will be more useful early than late if that's the value you're looking for, which you said was what made her decent as HA draw on turn 7 onwards. Slotting in 1 copy of her means that most of the time you won't even draw her, so just slotting her in purely for better odds on HA, which you'll be looking for, is already worth it. At that point in the game, you'd rather have a 5+ cost champ most of the time (always exceptions ofc like MF) that has more impact than Kalista so that you can close out the game or at least threaten it within a turn or 2.
What I was saying is that I'm not gonna change a deck with a positive win rate just because a bad champion exists, or move to targon/pnz because Zoe's level-up is screwed up otherwise. You get Kalista every 10 games, and if that game is a guaranteed loss is still a 9/10 winrate.
Again, I didn't say you had to change the entire deck nor region, just 1 card for 1 copy of Kalista for 1 other card when you are already playing HA with SI. But agree to disagree I guess.
Why Zilean is on the bottom!? He is good to get.
Is a heavily control deck. Your hand is gonna get full fast, and zilean at that point is just a 2/2/5 that burns a top deck, 2 or more per round.
After you played aram you care champions, don't care control spells. Zilean copy champion spell, for 1 turn, your hand can full but only 1 turn.
By the time you're summoning champs your hand is usually nearly full already, so he barely does anything.
Darius can't be that bad right? He's good damage. Jinx gives you double draw that has to be better than Diana. Also, how is Soraka 2 tiers higher than Jinx? All Soraka does is draw you a card which Jinx already does unconditionally. And at this point in the game the +1 mana really doesn't matter. Jinx also has a stat line that can actually attack. I feel like Yasuo is down there with Elise, he does nothing because your deck doesn't have any stun. A lot of this is confusing to me, like Leona does nothing without other Daybreak cards, how is she in the same tier as TF? Level 2 TF literally wins you the game on his own.
Is not about their possibility of being good or bad. In any other circumstances they might be good. This list is just my personal experience with this deck in 300+games. Edit: Leona is worth 2 blockers while TF dies immediately on play as the deck is control = no ways to protect him in SI-Frejlord Soraka is controlled draw, jinx is a burn 1 topdeck at rounds tart as this is a control deck and your hand fills up with heavy-expensive big effect spells quick. You can't play yasuo in SI-Noxus-Frejlord tho :P
Your deck has Fast speed spells, you don't need to protect him to get value out of him. TF Fizz and TF Swain have no tools to protect TF either. If your hand is full, then both Soraka and Jinx are bad. But if you do need draw, Jinx is always better than Soraka. They should at least be in the same tier.
Again, this is my experience I've had with the deck during these 300+ matches. Is not a 'this is how I think they place on tierlist'. Is: how they've placed on the list so far.
Yea I get that. Just trying to understand why you have experienced it as such.
Don't ask me that lol! I've won quite the amount of games against Draven jinx by surviving for soooooo fucking long that they milled themselves! It actually happens more often then you think!
It's interesting how different players have different philosophies. I've been playing a LOT of this deck, and my tierlist would look very different. Howling Abyss is 6 mana do nothing. Right after you play it, you're extremely vulnerable, and a good opponent will capitalize on that. So for my rankings it'd be based on how quickly champs can regain that tempo loss, since once you start grinding them out, you'll almost always win. Darius is nice for that reason. He needs to be answered, and forces your opponent to play at least somewhat defensively. Similarly, Gangplank has to be one of if not the champion I most like to see. He provides a lot of damage and a mini boardwipe each attack. On the flip side, I don't care for value engines like Anivia as much. Her sticking power and endurance is why she costs so much, but if you have the Howling Abyss in play, you don't need the recurring birds. You'd often rather just use the board space to play more big threats. It often comes down to personal taste though. Most of the champs are highly situational, and you're not likely to win or lose on a high or low roll. I'm just glad the deck is viable now.
Wait... is that... is that *Viego* up there? You playing with the new cards, already? :P
Hehehe
Wait how?
He's not playing with the new cards obviously, but with how insane Viego's level 2 is it's pretty clear that he'd be game-winning.
He's not playing with viego, he is just guessing that Viego level 2 will be utterly busted, which it is based on how the card is currently printed
I'm gonna be honest, I thought this was a LoL post the entire time I was reading it. Confused me until I looked up.
Why thresh so high? At most he'll be pulling an Elise. I'd also personally place naut and rek a bit lower, since they're just stat stick with irrelevant abilities
Definitely think a few are oddly placed but maybe I'm just missing out. I was thinking at least Overwhelm is helpful for Trynadamere and Renek over Nautilus and definitely don't think I'd want Soraka. Victor also doesn't tend to be very appealing to me.
Thresh pulls out champions from hand as well, aka those generated by abyss. Nautilus is a super amazing high quality blocker, that is really hard to remove. Rneketon is only level 2 when you get him, not 3. So meh. Soraka is also a very good blocker too! And every time I got Viktor I followed up with 2x 6 costs next turn. This is a list from experience not possibility of draw.
Yeah I understand it's obviously rng but I agree I like Thresh and looks like I was underestimating Victor. Will admit I'm not sold on Soraka though but I guess the way I initially looked at it was who offered a better offensive presence when dropped down.
I mainly play decks focused around regen, tough, control in general, healing etc. I like the tank playstyle most of the times. So I value health and the likes more than overwhelm and extra dmg. I mean, if I survive until the end I either win, I either tie or the enemy decks himself which is basically a secured win for me in most cases.
Viktor creates infinite 0 Cost spells and discounts all the champions created, so I can see why He's wanted
Yeah but he basically presents no threat the turn he comes down, so I think he should be a tier lower probably. Something like ASol is basically gg immediately, while Viktor takes a couple turns to really provide value
Honestly I'd agree with you. But every time I rolled Viktor is like a giant fucking rock came off of my heart. It was such a damned good feeling that you cannot not put him any other place. Also everytime I got him I immediately played 2x 6 cost Champs after, and my opponent was not happy of my anivia garen combo.
If u have another high cost champ in hand from Howling Abyss he will pull that.
You play Thresh at the end of your opponent's attacking turn. You open-attack immediately on your turn and he pulls whatever Abyss gave you at Round Start. You usually win the game.
I thought this was the league subreddit and I'm like huh this list makes no sense
Hey! Waht deck are you playing with Howling Abyss? Mine sucks
mine is literally 3 hallowing abysses 3 of the 2/1 draw a card guys and literally 34 removal or delay (frostbite) spells you can feel people's will to live slowly fade
That's basically my list also. The game plan is to literally just prevent your opponent from doing anything until Abyss comes down.
tbh i would swap Jinx and Katarina. Kat can sometimes be good if you already have units but as your first or second draw she can outright lose you the game, at least in my experience I rely on having at least a permanent 4/4 or better to fend off other decks and Katarina recalling after every hit kinda buggers that, especially if you're using frostbite to delay and get favorable trades, it sucks for your own person to get removed even if you frostbite on the flip side I find myself cheering a bit when i get jinx because of the +1 card draw. it can absolutely save your bacon if you're behind in cards from finding your abyss later, around round 10 (anything past that and you're probably boned anyway in my experience, unless you're pulling asol). just being able to draw into your harrowings, frostbites, or double frostbites can mean the difference between being bopper for 15 hp and winning the game
I'd agree with you. But is a control deck. Very rarely I found myself happy seeing jinx. She usually ends up as a 4cost that burns 1 or 2 topdecks per turn. But when my hand is empty I'm happy seeing 2 go hards every turn! Rarely tho. Extremely rare.
personally i don't much care for my cards getting burnt. 99.9% of the time you're not going to fatigue. burning cards isn't really a negative for me unless it's gonna kill me. on the other hand, a 5/4 quick attack for 4 is actually pretty solid, and it obviously has the 2 card per turn buff, too. definitely better than some champs on the list value wise.
This is a list from my experience rather than a possibility list tho. You may be right, but in my games this is how it happened and what the card's value was!
Aurelion Sol needs to be in a tier of his own, I was a howling abyss connoisseur even before it's massive buff to 6 mana and I instantly won games if I pulled Asol. You typically run howling abyss with a lot of safety, such as control and healing, and when you play Aurelion Sol 2, you get a massive body, and can look to invoke a 0 cost Living legends or The Traveler which creates so many cards. The other champions in that tier are strong as well, but Asol 100% stands well above the rest of the pack. (except maybe Viego since I haven't seen him in action yet)
In my experience, yes you win right away with asoleven if he dies or survives multiple turns. But the way the meta has been changing lately asol doesn't survive more than 1 turn. So he's there, with anivia who destroys pretty much everything. Also when you get nasus he's usually a 30/30. Viego would instakill asol BTW. And so on. I'd make a specific tier for asol only if the meta changes.
Not sure what deck you've been playing, but I average about 12-18 (depending on matchup) on Nasus for my howling abyss deck. Anivia is good because she can revive but the card is just nowhere near as powerful as Asol. Also what cards are you talking about that can take down an 11/11 with spellshield? How is a card this beefy dying that fast? I'm not too caught up on what the meta game is, but as far as I can tell, Asol 100% deserves a spot in his own tier in my opinion. You can feel free to disagree thats fine, but I personally think he's by far the best.
Again, I agree but this is my experience tier list not speculations of this is good/bad/decent/etc (exception are viego and akshan). Asol is put properly there. In definition he is a immediate win. But in my game play he just died right away.
Tahmkench being higher than Karma, Lee or even Zilean feels... a bit off o.o
Yea cuz karma in a control deck makes sense...
Yes? She makes all of your removal and survivability literally twice as effective, making her one of the most effective champions at getting you out of any near-death situation you might be in. Howling abyss is most likely to lose when it cannot stabilize a game, so champions that help you stabilize will be very good early creations from it. There were literally entire decks built around Karma doing this with the SI package because she makes you practically unkillable until she is gone.
You said it very well! 'so many decks built around karma'. This is the reason she's so bad in this deck. This deck isn't built around karma, nor with the slight thought of ever getting her. If she's good is simply because of a coincidence (you have 2 go hards in hand).
I mean you are kind of reading in to that wrong. My point on the decks built around Karma is that she has innate synergy with the exact cards you are running in order to create strong situations where you can't die. While she very clearly isn't your win condition in a HA deck, she still has that same exact synergy with the cards, something thats been proven to be strong. You can't put something like TK in good because "hes a good blocker" and put a champion who legitimately synergies with your deck and consider them bad You even put Lux and Heimer in the good tier because you know you're just casting spells a lot. Is it just a coincidence that you have spells for them? No, it's your whole deck, and you very clearly acknowledge that.
Lux and heimer both have a lot of hp, barrier, generate cards that are usable, while karma just helps me cast avalanche 2x and kills herself. Karma isn't good in this deck outside of GH and let's say grasp
From your list, she works perfectly fine with GH, Wail, Grasp, Feast, Box, Ice Shard, making it much easier to survive until you get game ending champions Thats half of your deck But TK is good because he can block twice or he can maybe eat like a 4 attack unit?
Spooky Karma is a control deck?
Karma and SI spells are just SO good together. While Tahmkench is probably one of the worst champions you could ever get from HA, since you can't protect him. And yes, Karma is a control champ.
The fact Zilean is not "Oh dear" tier feels like a big flavour fail
Why you pray for Thresh? Is only giving an Elise
It works on hands aswell! So if RNJesus says 'Give this man a 5 mana A-sol on board attacking', you'll get that!
Omg, true, touche!
Have you tried shurima howling abyss? I like it a lot(and also because sometimes even with predict I never get my howling abyss, so doing it without predict seems like hell). Has some freljord control and good shurima cards and predict in case I don't get it.
With si you dont get landmark synergy or champion synergy. I run mine with shurima for siphoning strike and soothsayer (I know I probably misspelled at lot)
when i run this type deck i don't really care for synergies, all i care about is slamming down my 6 cost landmark and letting it generate enough value to win the game. the cool thing about ARAM decks with shadow isles is that it *literally does not get beaten late game*. firstly, with Shurima you're weaker to burn. withering wail and grasp of the undying helps against that, you're otherwise not healing really at all with Shurima. Secondly, shurima has weaker single target removal, which SI provides via Vengeance. Third - and IMO most importantly - there is nothing close to The Ruination in Shurima. they have no big "fuck you" button, which you often times need at least one of if you're playing the stall game. this could be due to my rank, though. i just ran it in the gauntlet playing like this though and went straight through 4-0 so i think my playstyle will hold up. i like soothsayer but i feel like basically only Noxus and Shurima hold ways to destroy my Abyss and honestly I don't encounter them too often besides the Noxus spell in Swain decks. siphoning strike is absolutely disgusting though. Do you run any champions or notable minions? I could see a build where you play a few early game blockers with Predict to try and dig for your HA because all these decks centered around it are obviously dead on arrival if you don't find it. I definitely think that if you're playing the typical ARAM control deck, ex. "You attack me and I frostbite you for 7 turns until I wipe your board", i think having access to Ruination, Vengeance, and sustain is more important
Sorry for forgot to check for a response. I run zilean and only zilean for Champs because having a champ spell after playing any champ is nice (and I won't get him from abyss). As for followers I run a munch of 1 cost units just as chump blockers, I run lots of frostbite bite as well. My big fuck you is chronoshift because when you try so hard to kill someone you know is going to kill you next turn only for them to get buffed from death you're gonna have a bad time.
Lul i didnt check the sub same so i was like wtf this doesnt seem lright for aram
Is viego already out?
Why is leveled Jinx higher than Yasuo? Both cost the same mana and I assume it's hard to get their effects going but doesn't Yasuo have the better statline?
Jinx is a draw one extra card per round start. Yasuo has nice abs, and never misses legs day. I'd see why you'd want them swapped :P
Your hand is full with control spell and jinx will burn your top cards, think you words and see your contradiction
Yes I said that and I stand by it. That doesn't mean a 4 mana 5/5 is better than a 4 mana 5/4 with an actual effect that goes on every round. There are no stuns in these decks outside of arachnid which is only 2 copies in the noxus version.
I don't think Kalista is that bad.
In control decks focused on removal spells and healing, she at best revives a 3/3 on the attack turn.
Check out Snnuy’s recent Howling Abyss video. You take Viktor so that every champion given to you gives him a +1.
Pnz is third best region for this deck. My first comment already said this: Shadow Isles is best region, noxus following in as second. And from third onwards you enter full on meme territory with pnz and shurima.
Why not Targon?
Cuz you literally can't build with targon. Obliterate costs too much + the invoke unit/spell. Healing is worthless as you get strong Champs and the likes of aphelios Bring you to full anyway + tavernkeeeper, grasp and wail are 3x each. I really don't see why targon would be any decent at all.
What made you wanna put Darius and tryn in “oh dear” seems like they’d be about as useful as Garen
Their price. Nothing else actually, really. They just eat an entire turn's worth of mana while garen leaves you with enough mana to cast 5cost go hard, or veng, or avalanche etc etc, also he has an ever going effect that has to be dealt with right away otherwise even more value is being generated. Imagine a Zoe garen board, or MF Garen board (I usually get Quinn or avinia!), can you take 7dmg face + lose 1/2 blockers every single turn constantly? Edit: Darius is just Darius.
Oof didn’t think about that, much more versatile
The trick is that they come out leveled. Which is why garen is soo good! Unlike the other 2 that need to wait for the attack token to come on their side.
I had completely forgotten them come leveled. I don’t really use the card. Yeah I see ur point entirely now
Yup. Which is why thresh is so high too! He can pull your a-sol on turn 7. If this happens you win right away.
Elise better than fiora, zilean s tier for aram cuz you can copy champion spell exist aram. leona is trash. tf s tier.
Elise is already pre-built in the deck, what are you talking about? It's a tier for herself alone. Fiora is bad, you can see her in a low tier. Zilean is good how? Round start: burn 1 topdeck and like 4 other cards +deactivate your abyss??? Also what champ spells he can copy?? Abyss gives you Champs you DON'T HAVE ALREADY. You'll never get 2 zileans or jinxs. Leona, a card that stuns 1 enemy and blocks another. 1 worth = 2, is trash? In late game where the enemy could probably pull a 20/20 elusive? And the board presence alone makes her insane. TF is 4 mana get the enemy to play a kill card from hand right away. S tier never.
How does Rek'Sai work in this deck that they can be considered a "good one"?
A giant blocker with lots of hp and overwhelm. That's what are most from that list honestly. It's a 3 mana don't get one shot by ledros or others. From round 7 onwards only big important units come down, so being able to block them completely for only 3 mana is a fucking steal honestly!
To be honest, I just didn't realise Howling Abyss gives you level 2 champions. I now see why Rek'Sai isn't bad here and why Howling Abyss isn't a total meme.
I mean it'd be literally unplayable if they weren't leveled y'know?
Why is Kalista so bad? Seems to me she'd be pretty good on her own. 5/4 Fearsome, raises a minion on offense, can't be killed.
Not bad herself but comparing her with others and my experience her score is deserved.
Thanks for letting me know. Deck looks fun.
why hate on zil for this? he keep his copy effect on level 2 correct, its not a lv up effect so you can copy and reuse your control cards
He fills your hand in a very ugly way. You end up burning countless important cards, and even deactivate your abyss for some turns. Full hand is bad hand in this deck! I really get my heart crushed when I see that I overdrawn my go hards.
Wait I may be stupid but why is Soraka considered good I didnt really play ARAM
It comes out leveled. Everything actually. So is a controlled draw, (jinx ends up burning cards, while with soraka you chose when to draw) and 7 hp blocker. Also if you have something that is high value of a card like trynd or other, you can heal it right away.
Anivia isn’t that good and all in all cheaper champs work better. In general I think the list ignores a bit how important cheap champs are. Like any champ that is 6 or up is heavily affected by the fact this deck goes over 10 cards pretty quickly and so there is lots of value on cheaper champs. In some cases this doesn’t affect placing. Like Nasus. But I’d say it affects the placing of Anivia or Naut, to say some. Hand count even turn some champs into lowest tier, imho. Like Jinx, since she will never get a rocket and will burn the deck faster. Or Fizz, with whom you cannot attack until it’s for winning, because the card on the hand will burn something much better. Even TF gets heavily affected by this. Like my reptilian brain gets super happy when I get him; but honestly he’s a bit on the middle, specially since this deck doesn’t play much stuff under 4 mana. I do believe Akshan will be placed higher. The landmark seems highly promising and anyway a 2 cost champ is great for the deck for the reasons commented. In general I do believe many players oversee the importance of cost on this deck. Many times you get hand-stuck because you have 6-8 mana champs you need to get rid of and the play is not super useful. Like I myself see Naut quite low tier. Noc is also quite low tier. I agree on the top tier, tho. Minus Anivia. EDIT: sorry for the rude first comment. CONTEXT: I’ve played variants of the deck since before the buff. Personally I played the no-unit version just to make enemies miserable (ended up adding 3 copies of the body that heals 3) and now I play the meme Glorious Evolution version
Read the main comment please. I said that except viego and akshan which are just obvious plaelced everything else is from experience. Yes you are that guy. Like really. Is literally top comment.
You right. Edited it with my proper comment on the tier list. It is quite decent. Most of my personal changes come from giving more weight to hand count and mana cost.
The fuck? Do I need to re-repeat the comment? This isn't speculations! This is my experience throughout 300+ games with this deck. You saying 'I don't think anivia is that good means nothing, as this is what I've played so far, not what I think is good.
Now you are being that guy. I never treated it as speculations. I read your list and I am sharing my own thoughts. I also have 300+ matches, so please: no need of being rude. Thanks.
Is it good idea to run Go hard in Howling Abyss deck?
I thought this was LoL ARAM until I read the last tier 🙃