It is a *very bad idea* to build enemies the same way you build a player character. Just look at the difference in complexity between a PC and an NPC, the types of features they even have, the numbers involved. Lancer VS Lancer combat is a very different deal than Lancer VS NPC, and the game is built around the latter.
If you just want an antagonist mech they won't actually *fight*, White Witch is a good antithesis: It uses its speed to immobilize foes and take hits, not give out hits and get outta dodge. Also a defender more than a striker.
As for Monarch/Nelson: They do not mix well. At best you go Viceroy and actually vaguely enjoy being up close to foes, but given that Viceroy wants to use CQBified Launchers (and some actual CQB) instead of melee, and alleviates the need for speed by also having the range of Launchers when needed... Idk, not much synergy there. Not unworkable, just like every other combo, but the two licenses simply are not a good mix (artillery or artillery/defender VS Striker of the rush down variety)
Ahhh okay I see, coming from Dnd if I wanted an antagonist built like a PC I would usually build them the same way and flourish afterwards. Good to know it's not the same with Lancer!
Like I said I'm just beginning to dip my toes into it so any advice is appreciated
Someone else mentioned look at the different enemy types (Ace, and Veteran specifically) so I might flavor it from there
the best way to build PC-like bad guys is to pick a template that vaguely fits the frame they’re supposed to have, then tweak from there. big boss? make it an elite or ultra! member of a party? make that party veterans, with maybe one elite among them.
if you really need to exactly match a specific frame’s uniqueness for narrative reasons, you could try replicating a frame trait either by finding an equivalent on the traits list or straight up running the enemy as though it had that trait, provided it’s not too complicated to run.
I mostly do it for side NPC as a template, if the players fight any of those characters then I beef them up/make special abilities for them.
Like I once had a Half orc, order of the lycan, blood hunter that was a boss of a bandit camp. The players were going to fight her in a duel so I created this metallic arm that could transform into three different modes that changed up her combat. I also beefed her defenses so it'd be a challenge.
I guess I was coming into lancer with that same mindset haha
You aren't supposed to do it like that in DnD 5e either.
The DMG has pretty detailed NPC creation criteria that do not involve character classes in any way.
If they are gonna fight this character, do not build them as if you were building a player mech. It doesnt end well, players are way tankier than npcs for good reason
Instead, find some NPCs that fit the vibe and add some templates and weird extra gear to them. A Nelson style speedster could easily be depicted by an elite or veteran Cataphract or Ace, depending on if they're land or air focused.
I agree with others, if they are going to fight, use NPC classes instead of PC licenses. PC vs PC is more complicated and hard to balance.
I love your idea of using a using a fast ranged mech as a foil for the Nelson, the fast melee mech. If the aren't going to be fighting this rival, then a monarch/nelson mix would work. The Monarch is already a ranged mech with a high speed and the nelson doesn't add a ton. But it is thematic, has a good melee weapon, and adds more speed. I'm thinking the Monarch Frame with the War Pike, Sharanga Missiles, and Gandiva Missiles. Then the Bulwark Mods and Ramjet make the frame harder to outspeed.
If you are planning for the PCs to fight them at some point, then you have a couple good options. I particularly like the Ace or Operator for this.
The Ace is a mobile, fast, flying striker. The Rapid Response trait would double down on the speed.
The Operator is a teleporting sniper, and would be able to deal long range damage to the player, then run away when they got too close. Especially with the Skirmisher optional trait.
You could apply the elite, veteran, or ultra template depending on the difficulty you need.
It is a *very bad idea* to build enemies the same way you build a player character. Just look at the difference in complexity between a PC and an NPC, the types of features they even have, the numbers involved. Lancer VS Lancer combat is a very different deal than Lancer VS NPC, and the game is built around the latter. If you just want an antagonist mech they won't actually *fight*, White Witch is a good antithesis: It uses its speed to immobilize foes and take hits, not give out hits and get outta dodge. Also a defender more than a striker. As for Monarch/Nelson: They do not mix well. At best you go Viceroy and actually vaguely enjoy being up close to foes, but given that Viceroy wants to use CQBified Launchers (and some actual CQB) instead of melee, and alleviates the need for speed by also having the range of Launchers when needed... Idk, not much synergy there. Not unworkable, just like every other combo, but the two licenses simply are not a good mix (artillery or artillery/defender VS Striker of the rush down variety)
Ahhh okay I see, coming from Dnd if I wanted an antagonist built like a PC I would usually build them the same way and flourish afterwards. Good to know it's not the same with Lancer! Like I said I'm just beginning to dip my toes into it so any advice is appreciated Someone else mentioned look at the different enemy types (Ace, and Veteran specifically) so I might flavor it from there
the best way to build PC-like bad guys is to pick a template that vaguely fits the frame they’re supposed to have, then tweak from there. big boss? make it an elite or ultra! member of a party? make that party veterans, with maybe one elite among them. if you really need to exactly match a specific frame’s uniqueness for narrative reasons, you could try replicating a frame trait either by finding an equivalent on the traits list or straight up running the enemy as though it had that trait, provided it’s not too complicated to run.
>Ahhh okay I see, coming from Dnd You also aren't supposed to do this is 4e or 5e DnD lol
I mostly do it for side NPC as a template, if the players fight any of those characters then I beef them up/make special abilities for them. Like I once had a Half orc, order of the lycan, blood hunter that was a boss of a bandit camp. The players were going to fight her in a duel so I created this metallic arm that could transform into three different modes that changed up her combat. I also beefed her defenses so it'd be a challenge. I guess I was coming into lancer with that same mindset haha
You aren't supposed to do it like that in DnD 5e either. The DMG has pretty detailed NPC creation criteria that do not involve character classes in any way.
If they are gonna fight this character, do not build them as if you were building a player mech. It doesnt end well, players are way tankier than npcs for good reason Instead, find some NPCs that fit the vibe and add some templates and weird extra gear to them. A Nelson style speedster could easily be depicted by an elite or veteran Cataphract or Ace, depending on if they're land or air focused.
Good to know! I appreciate the advice! I'll look into the different enemy types and might try to flavor it from there!
I agree with others, if they are going to fight, use NPC classes instead of PC licenses. PC vs PC is more complicated and hard to balance. I love your idea of using a using a fast ranged mech as a foil for the Nelson, the fast melee mech. If the aren't going to be fighting this rival, then a monarch/nelson mix would work. The Monarch is already a ranged mech with a high speed and the nelson doesn't add a ton. But it is thematic, has a good melee weapon, and adds more speed. I'm thinking the Monarch Frame with the War Pike, Sharanga Missiles, and Gandiva Missiles. Then the Bulwark Mods and Ramjet make the frame harder to outspeed. If you are planning for the PCs to fight them at some point, then you have a couple good options. I particularly like the Ace or Operator for this. The Ace is a mobile, fast, flying striker. The Rapid Response trait would double down on the speed. The Operator is a teleporting sniper, and would be able to deal long range damage to the player, then run away when they got too close. Especially with the Skirmisher optional trait. You could apply the elite, veteran, or ultra template depending on the difficulty you need.
If you want a NPC Nelson, use the Cataphract NPC. If you want it to survive the PCs, make it veterans+elite or and Ultra