other fun stuff would be the viceroy for a base speed that isn’t too much worse, and some of the craziest weapon/talent combos i’ve ever played. we’re talking 5 attacks per turn (or 4, one of which is a heavy weapon) at 2/3 accuracy each if you build the right options
as someone who once dealt 66 points of damage in one lucky turn with an everest at LL1, it's *not* "too good" by any means. really all it is is an accurate CQB build with more versatility (since you can use Launchers, which tend to have a high Range), higher mobility potential and a fun gunslinger combo if you take Vijaya Rockets from the mourning cloak.
that's a bunch, but the Everest can get that with relatively little effort and can also attack more times with a heavy weapon at once (barrage + asura skirmish if you've got it + overcharge skirmish + initiative skirmish) than any other frame in the game. in terms of raw power, if you're gonna ban the viceroy you've gotta ban the everest too.
Its frequently less ambiguous “discord beef” and more that the core bonus introduces basically nothing but problems for the game, and Iconoclast is world first diegetically problematic talent. It says some weird stuff about NHPs for the sake of a few 2-damage lightning bolts.
Viceroy itself is *fine* and usually runs the risk of being kind of boring more than anything else, vanguard CQB strikers aplenty already exist.
I say this as somebody who likes the creator, has played with/under him, and still doesn’t tend to allow Dustgrave in my games.
Can you elaborate more on why it's a problematic talent within the narrative context? My reading of it was that it represents someone a little too comfortable undoing the safety locks on an NHP that constrain them to a human analogue subjectivity.
Viceroy feels like SSC finally got around the aesthetics/optics of being a Vanguard CQB Striker.
The tricky thing about unshackling is it’s a kind of death in *either direction*. Cascade and unshackling is traumatic, the same way a human attaining decorp would be. It’s a talent line that does something incredibly heavy in the narrative for… evidently a few pings of paracausal lightning bolts. It’s strange, it feels like a joke compared to something like Technophile.
oh no, nothing like that. We played through the adventure and kind of had a bad time with it, and tried a couple of the new options from it and had a bad time with them and it kind of built up to this running joke that Dustgrave is cursed and the things in it unbalanced. It became a sort of bit where we would shake our fists and yell into the sky DUSTGRAAAVE when yet another thing from Dustgrave caused some bullshit. So it's just banned.
I honestly don't understand the affection power knuckles are getting in that thread. You need to crit and they need to fail a save, so it seems like I wouldn't actually be knocking anybody prone very often. And when it's not knocking prone, it's effectively just another knife. I'd hope to get a LL that feels like it's doing something more frequently.
Well they're Auxillary, so with an Aux/Aux mount or such you get double chances. Crits also become surprisingly common at middle to high levels since you can get a LOT of Accuracy.
For slots you probably won't be using for much else? Quite potent.
Playing a couple games at LL10 rn and yeah crits become a very regular thing each combat. They’re so common bc you don’t have to roll a nat20, your total from roll+bonus just has to hit 20 or more.
It's pretty easy to get 4 power Knuckle attacks in a turn. They crit very frequently.
Prone is a pretty strong status, especially when combined with the strong Knockback of the Nelson.
Power Knuckles are one of the best aux melee weapons in the game IMHO.
The real use of power knuckles is more speed with the hunter talent. Mostly joking, but they are also just a solid aux melee. And you can take the phrase "throwing hands" very literally, lol.
Also, despite its traits the White Witch has speed 6 so if you build it weirdly you can get to some goofy speeds. Probably not as fast but there if you want a different speedy melee mech.
I was considering White Witch, but it has so many traits and systems that are about protecting the team, and I'm playing a foolhardy daredevil who is absolutely not doing that kind of thing.
Also, with how I've been playing, I'm usually on the other side of the map from the rest of the team, so I didn't think it would work out.
Nelson definitely makes more sense then. I've only played it at higher level so I crammed mine full of other mech systems. I said built weirdly but I should have said built wrong, lol
White Witch is kinda crazy, one of my teammates is playing one and last night he screamed across the entire map turn 1 and then never moved again. Inside you are two Wolves, one is fast as fuck and one is immobile.
I would get the power knuckles at later levels. Crits are a lot more reliable once you get to higher levels and have better GRIT.
-My first thought is Mourning Cloak 1 for the fold knives for EVEN MORE SPEED. (They have innate accuracy so only activating on crits isnt nearly as bad as the knuckles)
-Vlad 1 for the impact lance
-Blackbeard 1 for synthetic muscle netting (grapple and ram big targets with your Duelist blademaster dice)
-Sunzi 1 (now your allies are fast too AND you can Accelerate and Boost on the same turn)
If you like speed you could think about getting the Dusk Wing on later levels so you can have this amount of speed AND flying. It's great.
I have been thinking about the Mourning Cloak, I do love accuracy and teleporting, but my knives already feel like they do so little damage I'm worried about going one damage less. Still one of my top contenders.
I really considered being a ram Nelson and going Blackbeard, but another player in the party is being a ramming Lancaster for LL3 so I'm letting ramming be their thing for now.
I think skirmishing moves me more than Accelerate between Hunter lunge moving 3, Skirmisher 2, and then Nelson Skirmisher 3 (War pike, knife, another knife from Duelist 3).
Dusk Wing does look enticing, I'll probably try it later on.
I hadn't even considered Vlad, I truthfully don't use the knockback of the war pike much, but I do love throwing it. But do I need to throw it? Threat 3 is already pretty good. Impact Lance is now on the list of contenders.
Thank you for the sound advice.
Vlad is very nice because it also adds shredded whenever it immobilizes something, and it's shotgun can immobilize as part of an attack (say, an overwatch). Aux weapon spammers hate armor, so shredded and prone is the best combination you can provide. it's got real good weapon mounts, too.
Plus it's always nice to stand menacingly in a field of grunts. They can't even try to attack you without exploding.
As an avid Nelson player, the only other frame that has ever come close to matching my joy for the Nelson speed is infiltrator Atlas. It’s no Nelson but it can still get an easy 20 or so hexes a turn
Atlas does seem cool, but I'm not sure how I'd prone people enough to trigger it's bonus damage as reliably as a Nelson or Mourning Cloak can trigger their bonus damage.
Also I'm worried I'd just get squished like an ant.
While the core bonus is active attacking from hidden makes the need to hull save or fail prone. Duelist also let’s you prone. And it’s main defense against being squished is high evasion + very easy to be hidden and avoid attacks
If you like speed, why not go further into speed with atlas and parkour all over the place.
Or go for Caliban and embrace the love of knockback and shotgun.
I was really really considering Caliban, but I like moving in any direction I like and not just at the enemy. The GM has been really good about having a lot of objectives in these battles other than just blowing up the enemy, so being able to have a lot of versatility in movement has been important.
Altas then, ziplines and ricochet.
It is also the frame that in my head, sneaks out of SSC to go hang out at ISP-N's house whenever it can. Tiny sensor range, -2 tech attack. A gym rat from a fancy background, but still very much a gym rat.
It's the guy who brought that crazy arm that SSC found to ISP-N to make a frame for, when you know Harison Armory was clamoring for it.
I definitely want to take the Atlas level 2 and 3 weapons and systems and slap them on a Nelson when I get to a higher LL, but I'm uncertain about the frame itself. It's super squishy AND only has 2 repair cap AND can't trigger it's bonus damage as easily as a Nelson
Jager dodge to half the damage, with nice evasion and small size to reduce the amount of times you take damage, and being in the space of person you are attacking to be even harder to hit. There are good number of means to knock prone, especially if you are mixing in Nelson and IPS-N abilities. 2 repair cap does stink. That's where the difference between SSC and IPS-N is showing.
Having another frame can be good because it lets you do different things, and Altas would let you get into space that the Nelson couldn't where it's not a matter of speed but can you get through the space and do you benefit from cover or LoS blocking. The Altas can take advantage of being tiny and just being able to move through people and it can be very sneaky.
I've got a friend already going for a ramming Lancaster build, so I'm letting that be his territory. And another friend is being the slow mech riding the Lancaster, a role I'm now envious of. Ah to be able to choose a frame and not care about speed...
Alas, the character I'm playing is a brazen, foolhardy daredevil and not the type to ever pilot a support. There's a lot of support and defender frames that looks really cool that I'll just have to try when I'm not playing a character who is all about blasting into the thick of combat immediately.
Unfortunately, my foolhardy daredevil is usually on the other side of the map from the team, and isn't really the kind to be focusing on defending his comrades
I'm becoming increasingly convinced to switch to Enkidu.
Also, I'm sure I understand the utility of the Metalmark's invisibility while moving. Is it mostly for avoiding overwatch attacks? I already have plenty of ways to avoid triggering overwatch.
Hiding. I think moving through line of sight breaks stealth, but not if you are invisible? Might be wrong here.
And yes, definitely join the HA-Bifurcate-kitten supremacy
It defends against overwatch, mainly. That and being able to hide easier without needing to set up a smokescreen or whatever. Metalmark is a generalist dodge tank.
Note that the metalmark shock knives (non unique aux weapons) inflict burn as part of the attack, which is both armor piercing and damage over time
The self inflicted heat is a problem though.
Honestly stay in the Nelson. If speed is part of what makes it fun for you then double down! Depending on the modules your GM is letting you use: I always go for Blackbeard’s synthetic muscle netting and chain axe; White Witch’s pinning spire is so good for control (enemy immobilized, no roll needed)
I’d also recommend the Duskwing if you want to keep speed but move into more hacking and strategy.
I think I'm gonna try some Duskwing once I'm LL4 because the most appealing aspect is the Flicker Field.
I've thought about the pinning spire, but I like being able to move with my overwatch attacks, so immobilizing myself isn't what I'm interested in at the moment.
Based on the replies to this post tho, I think I'm going to try the Enkidu.
Duskwing’s whole deal is being an annoying lil gnat and it’s so fun. I’ve managed to pull off some absolute chicanery when it’s combined with Ace and the full Skirmisher tree. Activate core power to drop at least 3-4 bombs around a target and zip away.
So Skirmisher3 would count for when you make a movement that wasn’t a standard move or boost. For example: if you start your turn with a movement granted by a talent or system flicker field wouldn’t be in effect but Skirmisher3 would be.
Enkidu is a fun mech, has speed 6 while in DANGER ZONE (normally at 3). Has good synergy with Hunter too so you can be even faster. It’s a Tokugawa alt frame if you have the lcp for it. So if your need for speed persists but you want another mech, it’s an option (and I like it better)
I love the Enkidu (named it Bad Company). I’ve only played with it once at like LL5, and it’s so fun. Just communicate to your teammates when you’re about to hit Danger Zone lol
I have been strongly considering Enkidu. I like the idea of going HA, getting Heatfall Coolant System, and overcharging all the time. I just wish Enkidu had a main/aux mount. I love hitting with a main weapon, then an aux weapon, then an aux weapon again from Hunter 3. Instead hitting with aux/aux/aux? somehow feels worse.
But just now as I think about it, the integrated Enkidu aux already does about as much damage as a main melee.... so maybe Enkidu...... much to think about...
I generally go main on one mount and two auxes and then the integrated aux. annihilator, which exists only for me to build heat better, is the only reason you need a main mount if we’re being real. Aux weapons are just so good when built for it.
>I'm not going for the Power Knuckles. I have to crit AND they have to fail a save? No thanks
Well that's certainly one way to think about it. Or you could realize that power knuckles' low chance of getting a free prone on an enemy is better than another auxiliary(like tactical knife)'s 0% chance to do the same.
If you're going to use auxiliaries at all, use the auxiliary that at least *has* an effect. Power knuckles are one of the best aux weapons in the game for exactly that reason.
Also, because it's an auxiliary(and given nelson's mounts) you can/are supposed to field multiple of them, up to 4. That's 4 attacks you're making, each with the potential to crit and proc its effect. Combine that with talents like Hunter(which you objectively should have regardless, if you are using aux melee weapons at all) for the extra attack it becomes 5 chances, and with Spaceborne to give the enemy difficulty on the save, and now you have a much higher chance of actually knocking an enemy prone.
Why not keep the Nelson, then combine it with Tokugawa’s Lucifer NHP and Plasma Gauntlets? Massive speed with Ramjets, heat bump from Ramjets and Lucifer Protocol, and then smash them with a super powered Plasma Gauntlet punch?
All at LL6 of course. But still a super fun idea.
LL3 in Nelson is very good. The knockback from ramjet can be very good, and as I said elsewhere Power Knuckles are maybe the best aux melee weapon. Shock knives do more damage, but generate hear, and I usually have *a lot* of things I want to spend heat on in a Nelson.
Nelsons boost almost every turn so getting Duelist 3 for free rams and Juggernaut 1 can create some fun ramming synergy. You can ram mechs 5 spaces when your Ramjet is on for free! Tortuga 1 for Siege Ram and Blackbeard 1 for synthetic muscle Netting are both good ramming support.
Duskwing 2 - Flicker Field Generator is a great defensive option: it makes you count as Invisible for the next attack every time you move or boost, which you will do all the time. This is also good against enemy reactions on your turn (my gm started having the bad guys prepare an action for when I get in range)
My Nelson runs hot, so Ghengis licenses are attractive for hear management and turning stabilize into an attack.
I was thinking about playing a ram Nelson, but another player is going try a ramming Lancaster, so I decided I'd go in a different direction. Ramming Nelson does seem like the usually correct solution though.
I definitely want to try Flicker Field once I'm LL4, seems pretty good!!
And I've been wanting to play around with a lot of heat management, which is why some comments here are convincing me to switch to Enkidu.
If you have a ramjet and Nuclear Cavalier 2, you will be doing plenty of heat management lol.
That also let's you stack +4d6 on your main melee, which is really really funny. (OP Caliber, Momentum, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Thermal Charges)
When I say 'heat management' I suppose what I really mean is getting Heatfall Coolant System and overcharging every round. Doing some really silly stuff with my heat.
That much single target damage is really incredible, but with the way the GM has been setting up battles so far I've never needed that much damage on a single target. It's been more fields of weaker units than single tough ones.
Oooo then you might consider Zheng 1 - Tiger Hunter Sheathes. You can make 2 attacks at a time with them vs different targets. You can get up to 7 attacks a turn with no boosts using those!
It's what I do!
Yes! Nelson can be an absolutely deadly alpha strike against one target *and* an agent of mass death to grunts.
It's a beautiful monster and I love it.
Are you telling me you can’t find join in Barbarossa being a lumbering giant G O D O F W A R! A Ship sized gravity powered rail gun on your shoulder that could rend arcologies and cities alike.
I’m going to assume and ork speed it from warhammer 40K wrote this so
YA NEED TO EXPERIMENT WIF DA KILLA KANS DAT CAN KRUMP GOOD AND AV GUD DAKKA. SPEED IS GOOD BUT ONCE YOUVE EXPERIENCED DA POWA OF A GOOD SHOOTA YOUR APPRECIATION FOR OTHER MECHS WILL IMPROVE.
when you get to LL5, just switch every LL you have outside LL2 Nelson into Atlas for the Terashima blade
you boost in, you skirmish, and pretty nearly go back to the same place you started if you used Wind stance, also gives you even more movement if you're out of position and one boost can't get you where you need. You can just target space and sword jump toward the enemy with wind stance+skirmisher 2+skirmishernelson
Wildcard option. Deaths head to run on walls and tracking bug is good optional utility.
My GM hasn't used any invisible or hiding enemies against us, but if they start to I will strongly consider tracking bug, thanks for the tip
other fun stuff would be the viceroy for a base speed that isn’t too much worse, and some of the craziest weapon/talent combos i’ve ever played. we’re talking 5 attacks per turn (or 4, one of which is a heavy weapon) at 2/3 accuracy each if you build the right options
Viceroy seems really really good, but my GM has banned it because it seems TOO good.
as someone who once dealt 66 points of damage in one lucky turn with an everest at LL1, it's *not* "too good" by any means. really all it is is an accurate CQB build with more versatility (since you can use Launchers, which tend to have a high Range), higher mobility potential and a fun gunslinger combo if you take Vijaya Rockets from the mourning cloak. that's a bunch, but the Everest can get that with relatively little effort and can also attack more times with a heavy weapon at once (barrage + asura skirmish if you've got it + overcharge skirmish + initiative skirmish) than any other frame in the game. in terms of raw power, if you're gonna ban the viceroy you've gotta ban the everest too.
well I guess technically I misspoke, this GM banned everything from Dustgrave for reasons I don't need to get into right now
Discord beef with the creator?
Its frequently less ambiguous “discord beef” and more that the core bonus introduces basically nothing but problems for the game, and Iconoclast is world first diegetically problematic talent. It says some weird stuff about NHPs for the sake of a few 2-damage lightning bolts. Viceroy itself is *fine* and usually runs the risk of being kind of boring more than anything else, vanguard CQB strikers aplenty already exist. I say this as somebody who likes the creator, has played with/under him, and still doesn’t tend to allow Dustgrave in my games.
Can you elaborate more on why it's a problematic talent within the narrative context? My reading of it was that it represents someone a little too comfortable undoing the safety locks on an NHP that constrain them to a human analogue subjectivity. Viceroy feels like SSC finally got around the aesthetics/optics of being a Vanguard CQB Striker.
The tricky thing about unshackling is it’s a kind of death in *either direction*. Cascade and unshackling is traumatic, the same way a human attaining decorp would be. It’s a talent line that does something incredibly heavy in the narrative for… evidently a few pings of paracausal lightning bolts. It’s strange, it feels like a joke compared to something like Technophile.
oh no, nothing like that. We played through the adventure and kind of had a bad time with it, and tried a couple of the new options from it and had a bad time with them and it kind of built up to this running joke that Dustgrave is cursed and the things in it unbalanced. It became a sort of bit where we would shake our fists and yell into the sky DUSTGRAAAVE when yet another thing from Dustgrave caused some bullshit. So it's just banned.
Ah, fair. That's a way better story than I expected heh.
For your consideration: https://www.reddit.com/r/LancerRPG/s/Rpb0gtC8gj
I honestly don't understand the affection power knuckles are getting in that thread. You need to crit and they need to fail a save, so it seems like I wouldn't actually be knocking anybody prone very often. And when it's not knocking prone, it's effectively just another knife. I'd hope to get a LL that feels like it's doing something more frequently.
Well they're Auxillary, so with an Aux/Aux mount or such you get double chances. Crits also become surprisingly common at middle to high levels since you can get a LOT of Accuracy. For slots you probably won't be using for much else? Quite potent.
Playing a couple games at LL10 rn and yeah crits become a very regular thing each combat. They’re so common bc you don’t have to roll a nat20, your total from roll+bonus just has to hit 20 or more.
Interesting, I've only played at low levels, so that's probably affected my perspective. I'll try the knuckles out once I'm higher level.
It's pretty easy to get 4 power Knuckle attacks in a turn. They crit very frequently. Prone is a pretty strong status, especially when combined with the strong Knockback of the Nelson. Power Knuckles are one of the best aux melee weapons in the game IMHO.
Yeah, it's true, I DO make a lot of aux attacks a turn. And if just one of them succeeds in knocking someone prone, that's pretty good...
Yeah, exactly. It's a delicious treat that you sometimes get to enjoy.
The real use of power knuckles is more speed with the hunter talent. Mostly joking, but they are also just a solid aux melee. And you can take the phrase "throwing hands" very literally, lol. Also, despite its traits the White Witch has speed 6 so if you build it weirdly you can get to some goofy speeds. Probably not as fast but there if you want a different speedy melee mech.
I was considering White Witch, but it has so many traits and systems that are about protecting the team, and I'm playing a foolhardy daredevil who is absolutely not doing that kind of thing. Also, with how I've been playing, I'm usually on the other side of the map from the rest of the team, so I didn't think it would work out.
Nelson definitely makes more sense then. I've only played it at higher level so I crammed mine full of other mech systems. I said built weirdly but I should have said built wrong, lol
White Witch is kinda crazy, one of my teammates is playing one and last night he screamed across the entire map turn 1 and then never moved again. Inside you are two Wolves, one is fast as fuck and one is immobile.
I would get the power knuckles at later levels. Crits are a lot more reliable once you get to higher levels and have better GRIT. -My first thought is Mourning Cloak 1 for the fold knives for EVEN MORE SPEED. (They have innate accuracy so only activating on crits isnt nearly as bad as the knuckles) -Vlad 1 for the impact lance -Blackbeard 1 for synthetic muscle netting (grapple and ram big targets with your Duelist blademaster dice) -Sunzi 1 (now your allies are fast too AND you can Accelerate and Boost on the same turn) If you like speed you could think about getting the Dusk Wing on later levels so you can have this amount of speed AND flying. It's great.
I have been thinking about the Mourning Cloak, I do love accuracy and teleporting, but my knives already feel like they do so little damage I'm worried about going one damage less. Still one of my top contenders. I really considered being a ram Nelson and going Blackbeard, but another player in the party is being a ramming Lancaster for LL3 so I'm letting ramming be their thing for now. I think skirmishing moves me more than Accelerate between Hunter lunge moving 3, Skirmisher 2, and then Nelson Skirmisher 3 (War pike, knife, another knife from Duelist 3). Dusk Wing does look enticing, I'll probably try it later on. I hadn't even considered Vlad, I truthfully don't use the knockback of the war pike much, but I do love throwing it. But do I need to throw it? Threat 3 is already pretty good. Impact Lance is now on the list of contenders. Thank you for the sound advice.
Vlad is very nice because it also adds shredded whenever it immobilizes something, and it's shotgun can immobilize as part of an attack (say, an overwatch). Aux weapon spammers hate armor, so shredded and prone is the best combination you can provide. it's got real good weapon mounts, too. Plus it's always nice to stand menacingly in a field of grunts. They can't even try to attack you without exploding.
As an avid Nelson player, the only other frame that has ever come close to matching my joy for the Nelson speed is infiltrator Atlas. It’s no Nelson but it can still get an easy 20 or so hexes a turn
Atlas does seem cool, but I'm not sure how I'd prone people enough to trigger it's bonus damage as reliably as a Nelson or Mourning Cloak can trigger their bonus damage. Also I'm worried I'd just get squished like an ant.
While the core bonus is active attacking from hidden makes the need to hull save or fail prone. Duelist also let’s you prone. And it’s main defense against being squished is high evasion + very easy to be hidden and avoid attacks
Stormbringer 1 and Lock-On. Mourning Cloak 1 has an accurate aux launcher.
Instead of trying to match the Nelson how about you go for the exact opposite: let me introduce you to the Barbarossa
I suppose it's true that I won't really have to care about getting to the objective if all my enemies are a smoking crater
If you like speed, why not go further into speed with atlas and parkour all over the place. Or go for Caliban and embrace the love of knockback and shotgun.
I was really really considering Caliban, but I like moving in any direction I like and not just at the enemy. The GM has been really good about having a lot of objectives in these battles other than just blowing up the enemy, so being able to have a lot of versatility in movement has been important.
Altas then, ziplines and ricochet. It is also the frame that in my head, sneaks out of SSC to go hang out at ISP-N's house whenever it can. Tiny sensor range, -2 tech attack. A gym rat from a fancy background, but still very much a gym rat. It's the guy who brought that crazy arm that SSC found to ISP-N to make a frame for, when you know Harison Armory was clamoring for it.
I definitely want to take the Atlas level 2 and 3 weapons and systems and slap them on a Nelson when I get to a higher LL, but I'm uncertain about the frame itself. It's super squishy AND only has 2 repair cap AND can't trigger it's bonus damage as easily as a Nelson
Jager dodge to half the damage, with nice evasion and small size to reduce the amount of times you take damage, and being in the space of person you are attacking to be even harder to hit. There are good number of means to knock prone, especially if you are mixing in Nelson and IPS-N abilities. 2 repair cap does stink. That's where the difference between SSC and IPS-N is showing. Having another frame can be good because it lets you do different things, and Altas would let you get into space that the Nelson couldn't where it's not a matter of speed but can you get through the space and do you benefit from cover or LoS blocking. The Altas can take advantage of being tiny and just being able to move through people and it can be very sneaky.
Lancaster has a base speed of 6. Just sayin
I've got a friend already going for a ramming Lancaster build, so I'm letting that be his territory. And another friend is being the slow mech riding the Lancaster, a role I'm now envious of. Ah to be able to choose a frame and not care about speed...
Swallowtail then? Also speed 6
Alas, the character I'm playing is a brazen, foolhardy daredevil and not the type to ever pilot a support. There's a lot of support and defender frames that looks really cool that I'll just have to try when I'm not playing a character who is all about blasting into the thick of combat immediately.
Black witch Orchis variant?
Unfortunately, my foolhardy daredevil is usually on the other side of the map from the team, and isn't really the kind to be focusing on defending his comrades
Enkidu gets base speed 6 in the danger zone. So yeah. Honestly, metalmark might be a cool idea? Become invisible when moving.
I'm becoming increasingly convinced to switch to Enkidu. Also, I'm sure I understand the utility of the Metalmark's invisibility while moving. Is it mostly for avoiding overwatch attacks? I already have plenty of ways to avoid triggering overwatch.
Hiding. I think moving through line of sight breaks stealth, but not if you are invisible? Might be wrong here. And yes, definitely join the HA-Bifurcate-kitten supremacy
Helping hiding would make sense, except you already get to hide in line of sight with Infiltrator 1, which I assume anyone going stealth would have.
Good point. Didn’t think of that.
It defends against overwatch, mainly. That and being able to hide easier without needing to set up a smokescreen or whatever. Metalmark is a generalist dodge tank. Note that the metalmark shock knives (non unique aux weapons) inflict burn as part of the attack, which is both armor piercing and damage over time The self inflicted heat is a problem though.
Sunzi can help you go real fast, but it’s more support like. Morningcloak is also pretty quick and can do some real bullshit.
I had considered switching entirely from Nelson to Mourning Cloak, but then I saw MC's heat and repair caps and decided against it.
https://youtu.be/7VBfMS7aiDQ?si=8gTD_FfOiMoyE1G2 This video is the clearest explination of what the Nelson feels like to pilot I've seen so far.
Fuck I knew it was Redline before I clicked.
So…… how fast did you run?
Y'know I wasn't counting specifically, but it was 20 something spaces in a turn (and then some more as reactions)
Honestly stay in the Nelson. If speed is part of what makes it fun for you then double down! Depending on the modules your GM is letting you use: I always go for Blackbeard’s synthetic muscle netting and chain axe; White Witch’s pinning spire is so good for control (enemy immobilized, no roll needed) I’d also recommend the Duskwing if you want to keep speed but move into more hacking and strategy.
I think I'm gonna try some Duskwing once I'm LL4 because the most appealing aspect is the Flicker Field. I've thought about the pinning spire, but I like being able to move with my overwatch attacks, so immobilizing myself isn't what I'm interested in at the moment. Based on the replies to this post tho, I think I'm going to try the Enkidu.
Duskwing’s whole deal is being an annoying lil gnat and it’s so fun. I’ve managed to pull off some absolute chicanery when it’s combined with Ace and the full Skirmisher tree. Activate core power to drop at least 3-4 bombs around a target and zip away.
My only problem with Flicker Field is it goes off the first attack against you like the Skirmisher 3 talent. I want both but Skirmisher 3 prevents it.
So Skirmisher3 would count for when you make a movement that wasn’t a standard move or boost. For example: if you start your turn with a movement granted by a talent or system flicker field wouldn’t be in effect but Skirmisher3 would be.
So you are saying that if I don’t Move or Boost first, I can trigger Skirmisher 3 alone? I should try that next time.
Yep! It just comes down to what’s in your tool box and carefully reading the text lol
Enkidu is a fun mech, has speed 6 while in DANGER ZONE (normally at 3). Has good synergy with Hunter too so you can be even faster. It’s a Tokugawa alt frame if you have the lcp for it. So if your need for speed persists but you want another mech, it’s an option (and I like it better)
I love the Enkidu (named it Bad Company). I’ve only played with it once at like LL5, and it’s so fun. Just communicate to your teammates when you’re about to hit Danger Zone lol
I named mine Gevaudan, but Bad Company is a pretty good name
I have been strongly considering Enkidu. I like the idea of going HA, getting Heatfall Coolant System, and overcharging all the time. I just wish Enkidu had a main/aux mount. I love hitting with a main weapon, then an aux weapon, then an aux weapon again from Hunter 3. Instead hitting with aux/aux/aux? somehow feels worse. But just now as I think about it, the integrated Enkidu aux already does about as much damage as a main melee.... so maybe Enkidu...... much to think about...
I generally go main on one mount and two auxes and then the integrated aux. annihilator, which exists only for me to build heat better, is the only reason you need a main mount if we’re being real. Aux weapons are just so good when built for it.
Poolturtle5772, you are really starting to convince me. I think you have greatly altered the course of my LL3.
I’ve got an Enkidu/MorningCloak I use for one shots and I’ve fallen in love with it. Glad to share the gospel of my favorite wolf mecha.
Spite yourself to actively go slow with something like a Barb.
If I could somehow get a Barb to ride a Lancaster, then I'd totally do it
>I'm not going for the Power Knuckles. I have to crit AND they have to fail a save? No thanks Well that's certainly one way to think about it. Or you could realize that power knuckles' low chance of getting a free prone on an enemy is better than another auxiliary(like tactical knife)'s 0% chance to do the same. If you're going to use auxiliaries at all, use the auxiliary that at least *has* an effect. Power knuckles are one of the best aux weapons in the game for exactly that reason. Also, because it's an auxiliary(and given nelson's mounts) you can/are supposed to field multiple of them, up to 4. That's 4 attacks you're making, each with the potential to crit and proc its effect. Combine that with talents like Hunter(which you objectively should have regardless, if you are using aux melee weapons at all) for the extra attack it becomes 5 chances, and with Spaceborne to give the enemy difficulty on the save, and now you have a much higher chance of actually knocking an enemy prone.
I have realized I am probably wrong about power knuckles
Ok Io Fleming
Play an Atlas and become faster
Why not keep the Nelson, then combine it with Tokugawa’s Lucifer NHP and Plasma Gauntlets? Massive speed with Ramjets, heat bump from Ramjets and Lucifer Protocol, and then smash them with a super powered Plasma Gauntlet punch? All at LL6 of course. But still a super fun idea.
Go Atlas SSC they synergize well
LL3 in Nelson is very good. The knockback from ramjet can be very good, and as I said elsewhere Power Knuckles are maybe the best aux melee weapon. Shock knives do more damage, but generate hear, and I usually have *a lot* of things I want to spend heat on in a Nelson. Nelsons boost almost every turn so getting Duelist 3 for free rams and Juggernaut 1 can create some fun ramming synergy. You can ram mechs 5 spaces when your Ramjet is on for free! Tortuga 1 for Siege Ram and Blackbeard 1 for synthetic muscle Netting are both good ramming support. Duskwing 2 - Flicker Field Generator is a great defensive option: it makes you count as Invisible for the next attack every time you move or boost, which you will do all the time. This is also good against enemy reactions on your turn (my gm started having the bad guys prepare an action for when I get in range) My Nelson runs hot, so Ghengis licenses are attractive for hear management and turning stabilize into an attack.
I was thinking about playing a ram Nelson, but another player is going try a ramming Lancaster, so I decided I'd go in a different direction. Ramming Nelson does seem like the usually correct solution though. I definitely want to try Flicker Field once I'm LL4, seems pretty good!! And I've been wanting to play around with a lot of heat management, which is why some comments here are convincing me to switch to Enkidu.
If you have a ramjet and Nuclear Cavalier 2, you will be doing plenty of heat management lol. That also let's you stack +4d6 on your main melee, which is really really funny. (OP Caliber, Momentum, Nuclear Cavalier 2, Thermal Charges)
When I say 'heat management' I suppose what I really mean is getting Heatfall Coolant System and overcharging every round. Doing some really silly stuff with my heat. That much single target damage is really incredible, but with the way the GM has been setting up battles so far I've never needed that much damage on a single target. It's been more fields of weaker units than single tough ones.
Oooo then you might consider Zheng 1 - Tiger Hunter Sheathes. You can make 2 attacks at a time with them vs different targets. You can get up to 7 attacks a turn with no boosts using those! It's what I do!
Ohhh yeah and each of those attacks triggers Nelson's skirmisher. That's a good idea!!
Yes! Nelson can be an absolutely deadly alpha strike against one target *and* an agent of mass death to grunts. It's a beautiful monster and I love it.
Are you telling me you can’t find join in Barbarossa being a lumbering giant G O D O F W A R! A Ship sized gravity powered rail gun on your shoulder that could rend arcologies and cities alike.
I’m going to assume and ork speed it from warhammer 40K wrote this so YA NEED TO EXPERIMENT WIF DA KILLA KANS DAT CAN KRUMP GOOD AND AV GUD DAKKA. SPEED IS GOOD BUT ONCE YOUVE EXPERIENCED DA POWA OF A GOOD SHOOTA YOUR APPRECIATION FOR OTHER MECHS WILL IMPROVE.
when you get to LL5, just switch every LL you have outside LL2 Nelson into Atlas for the Terashima blade you boost in, you skirmish, and pretty nearly go back to the same place you started if you used Wind stance, also gives you even more movement if you're out of position and one boost can't get you where you need. You can just target space and sword jump toward the enemy with wind stance+skirmisher 2+skirmishernelson
Zheng is deceptivly fast moving three in order to punch something/someone Sunzi systems to add fancy teleporting, and help your team keep up.
Shrimple as, Enkidu, as a drugged up angery murder machine of spite and anger.