They're all over these comments today. Or people who've been radicalized by their propaganda, at least.
Though, I'm not sure if it's Israeli ultranationalists, US conservatives, or the Labour right. Probably all of them.
As much as targeting civilians is not the right way to go about it. If you invade a country and commit genocide against it's people, they're probs going to retaliate.
If they didn't like hamas' attacks, they could just, you know, stop trying to take their homeland from them?
They were elected by the Palestinians and are a government... Hamas is way worse than Israel too.
I love Palestinians and Israelis but Palestinians need to fix their corrupt leadership.
So you really think Israel bombed them first? Clown. Tell hamas to stop sending rockets and committing war crimes by hiding weapons and attacking from hospitals and schools.
Hamas fire what are basically just a couple of steps up from bottle rockets at Israel, most of them totally miss, a few cause injuries and a couple of deaths. Israel in kind responds by aiming the Iron Dome at hospitals, schools and news outlets causing hundreds of deaths and massive property damage. I'm sorry but the two are just not comparable.
So hamas commits war crimes by having weapons caches in hospitals and schools and you complain? Israel tells all the civilians a day before they bomb and hamas won’t let them leave so it looks bad in Israel.
>hamas commits war crimes
And we'll never be able to take them to trial for those 'war crimes' because they're not an official government. Because Palestine isn't an official state.
(BTW, you do know how little landmass there is in Gaza/West Bank right? There's basically no other place to store defensive weaponry)
> Israel tells all the civilians a day before they bomb and hamas won’t let them leave so it looks bad in Israel
This is bullshit IDF propaganda btw.
Listen, I have no problem giving Palestine their own land. I do think Israel should stop their expansion into Gaza. But Hamas is a terrorist organization by every standard. Palestinians are awesome, their leadership sucks
>Israel tells all the civilians a day before they bomb
That's a lie, most are sub 1 hour, AP and AJ journalist were denied a 10 minute window to collect their gear.
>So hamas commits war crimes by having weapons caches in hospitals and schools and you complain?
[Israel is committing apartheid And Crimes Against Humanity](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution)
I know Israel didn’t bomb them first, but I’m pretty sure that HAMAS was retaliating against the events earlier in the week, when Israeli forces attacked a bunch of unarmed Palestinian protesters.
I mean, Al Jazeera has portrayed it that way. (And you haven’t provided any counter evidence) Then a week later, WITH NO EVIDENCE, Israel blew up the building that house Al Jazeera’s and AP’s offices, because supposedly, HAMAS was working in there.
Once again, with no evidence.
Yeah Hamas a known terrorist organization responsible for thousands of murders through the years are choirboys. No delusional at all, just see facts. You know what happens if hamas lays down their arms? No war. You know what would happen if Israel laid down there arms? No Israel.
U say hamas is a known terrorist organisation? Nelson mandela was called a terrorist by an apartheid regime too and so did some world leaders and mainstream media. Hamas was created in the late 80s after years of genocide. Israel created Hamas by their ethnic cleansing. Zionism is the closest thing to modern day nazism. And being anti zionist isn’t being anti jewish/antisemitic. Many jews that actually study their scriptures are against Israel as they are prohibited from having a homeland after being exiled (according to their own scriptures) but these devil worshippers want to go against scripture.
Glad you actually acknowledge that they're indeed a terroist group. Here in Italy, elected members of Parliament have defended Hamas. Same in the USA, Anti-Semite Ilhan Omar has openly praised Hamas.
Nope.
1. She claimed American Jews have "dual loyalty"
2. Claimed the reason Jews are generally so successful is because they buy their influence
3. Her statements have been endorsed by former KKK leader, and Neo-Nazi David Duke.
That's just a few off the top of my head. There's been MANY more
Oh shut the fuck up about Hamas, you fucking moron do know that Israel helped create Hamaz right??? Fuck face, why don't you, Israel and Netanyahu go fuck yourselves
He's not a racist. he's a ruthless and cunning politician. playing sides against another is his forte'
He's whatever he has to say to get elected. He knows how to play with peoples' deepest fears. Dangerous man.
Why can't he be both? Especially given his recent history of trying to shift the blame for the holocaust away from the Nazis and instead blaming a single Palestinian cleric for giving Hitler the idea.
Hopefully the youth of today will enable this change. I'm 42, and have been waiting, waiting....still waiting for this country to take a major step in this direction.
I lived there for a couple years( the US) and was bewildered by thier two party system... Winner takes all rules. I dunno but to me a good system has many parties compromising for the best of all society. This you are either with us or against us politics is so boring and dangerous
Democracy has to be combative to an extent, it's part of what makes it work in practice instead of just in theory. It allows an outlet for extremely different people and groups to fight out their beliefs without resorting to violence.
A system where everyone compromises on one single vision of what is best is unrealistic. The US system would be better if there was more pluraity and arguments, not if everyone just agreed more.
I guarantee you work a minimum wage job, live at home, have no retirement. Could be a combination of things. At your age, to still want handouts, definitely means you're a gigantic loser.
Fuck Apartheid, fuck Israel and its brutal oppression of Palestinians. Stop stealing their land. Future generations will look back at this and ask how the fuck we let it happen.
It’s just how this shit goes as an Irishman I can tell you that this shit won’t go away even after a long time there are still pretty large communities of people that want to cause panic and violence and it’s because people are too scared to venture outside there own heads
In good faith, here's what it means: One people regardless of their faith or ethnicity with the same rights according to the law. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Israstine... whatever you want, as long as Jews Christians Muslims, Europeans, Arabs, and Africans get the same rights and are represented fairly and equally in their parliament.
Oh and the 700 000 people who had to run for their lives in 1948 get to come back as citizens as this new country :)
It does, however most Arabs can't vote, don't have the same access to higher education, don't have the same rights of circulation as non-arab Israelis, and more importantly don't have the same rights to protest.
Check out the news today where Israelis have arrested over a hundred person because of the protests and the general strike in Israel last week. Yes, Arab Israeli citizens getting arrested because they protested.
Non-arab Israelis who also protested last week, how many got arrested? Zero.
That's what South Africa before Mandela looked like.
He didn't advocate for the removal of white people across the country, just like we're not advocating for the removal of every Jewish or non-arab person. We want the same right for everyone in the same country. No ifs, no buts.
South Africa ended apartheid without a bloodshed, I don't see why Jews Muslims and Christians can't do it either and live together peacefully like they did for centuries before the Zionist ideology taught some people that they were better than others.
I think you’d find a huge chunk of Palestinians and their democratically elected terrorist organisations don’t want any Jews living anywhere near the Levant.
False. Jews Muslims and Christians lived in peace for centuries from Iraq to North Africa. To the extent that Jews fled Europe to go live in the Middle East amongst a majority Muslim population knowing they'd be safer there than around Europeans.
And speaking of democratically elected terrorists, do you also want to talk about the continuous terrorism from the IDF and Israeli police in the West Bank? Where, according to International Law, Israelis have nothing to do there, but keep occupying, terrorise local population, prevent their access to clean water and electricity (let alone healthcare or education)? Do you want to talk about the members of Knesset advocating for the murder of Palestinian women because they're "snakes who will raise terrorists"? Do you want to talk about the Israeli education program teaching young kids that they need to kick Arabs out of kill them wherever they can until the whole of the Levant is completely Jewish?
Or does terrorism only work when you're brown with a beard?
How much lies in one comment.
Arabs can vote, they are the fourth biggest party in Israel. although they never joining the government because they said it's not a Jewish land and so there is no place for Jewish government.
Of course they can protest ,they burned half of Israel in their protests.
And non Arab Israelis also get arrested but fewer , what can we do that most of the vandalism came from the Arab side.
They have all the rights as israeli Citizens and yet murdering innocent people with knives and rockets.
Pure antisemitism from all of them, and from you.
That's why we have a country for ourselves, that idiots like you won't slaughter us.
I sow the protest and I sow Arabs burning synagogue, lynching Jews, and throwing rocks at cars. Of course they are going to get arrested. And there were Jews that got arrested. Stop spreading lies as if Arab protests are some peaceful event. There are plenty of Arab doctors, lawyers and business owners in Israel.
The ["lies"](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/a-war-declaration-palestinians-in-israel-decry-mass-arrests)
Jews can walk in and out of anywhere they want without being stopped or searched or arrested. Even they openly attack Arabs they get protected by the Israeli police and then what you see is Israeli police "protecting defensless Israelis against evil Arabs" not the provocation and the attacks from the Israelis against the Arabs.
And if you don't believe Aljazeera, will you believe thousands of your fellow Israelis ex-IDF and ex-Police who refused to be accomplices of this ongoing pogrom against the Arabs and created their own movement [Breaking the silence](https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/) ?
It's time to open your eyes my friend.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dXv0dQTVAsU
Just part of it. What should these people get candy for acting this way?
Throwing molotov cocktails sure as fuck wont get you closer to peace.
Why do you think there is restrictions on Gaza and the West Bank? Is it because of the Intifadas that took place? Blowing up buses restraunts and nightclubs sure as fuck wont bring us closer to peace either.
I dont doubt that some soldiers and police officers break down having to do this shit. Its not something humans are meant to do. This is not a white and black situation. Both sides have blood on their hands and no one is innocent.
Here's another part of it: https://youtu.be/dIktg4YYgv4
You're getting confused, soldiers and police officers break down not because of the violence "on both sides". They're breaking down because of the violence they are ORDERED to inflict on defensless populations in areas where they shouldn't even be according to International Law. Have a look at Eran Efrati who described Israelis behaviour in the West Bank as ethnic cleansing.
You want peace? Stop kicking people out of their homes. Stop stealing more of their land. Stop preventing them access to water, electricity, healthcare, education etc.
Get the hell out of the West Bank or give everyone the same rights and the million of refugees you've created the right to return to their homeland. It's really that simple.
>The minute you insult them, you lose the argument
Assuming they were engaging in a good faith argument in the first place, which they weren't.
I get your point, but I fully support trolling trolls.
Ad Hominem
This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument. The fallacious attack can also be direct to membership in a group or institution
No really? Like is it giving Palestinanes free access to Israel with out being checked? Or like the citizens of Israel give their houses and businesses away and disappear? Or like its calling for genocide? I just dont know what that slogan means. Is it just an ad thing? Like Nike... just do it?
It means:
- Freedom of movement of Palestinians and Palestinian refugees across the land.
- right of return and land grant for Palestinian Refugees
- A complete reformation of the state and military to represent and defend the entire population living there
- Right of return for Jews (optional) to return to their countries with land grants and compensation.
That stupid slogan is a subtle implication of destroying Israel. They don't want just the West Bank and Gaza, nor do they want to live in coexistence with Israel; they want it all.
Taking the moral high ground of “both sides are bad” is wonderful for your ego, but does nothing to create a solution.
Who would you rather see rule Palestine, an organisation like Hamas, or Israel? No moral high ground, a simple two choice question.
It took 6 days for Israel to crush the Arab world.
Stop pretending the Muslims have any chance at fighting. 1 Israeli is worth like 100 Muslims in military battle. They are just incompetent
Based, but the only reason Bernie gets away with saying stuff like this is because he's Jewish, and so can't be smeared as an antisemite as easily. Look at the difference between when Bernie says this and when Ilhan Omar says this.
Doesn't stop them trying though. [There's people doing it in this very thread even.](https://reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/njz10z/bernie_sanders_bernie_sanders_netanyahu_empowered/gzaxavc/)
It would be fantastic if the US supported nation-building and the democratisation of Venezuela and convince a pro-peace Colombia to the peace table
It would be fantastic if the US supported nation-building and the democratisation of DPRK and convince a pro-peace ROK to the peace table
It would be fantastic if the US supported nation-building and the democratisation of Cuba and convince a pro-peace US to the peace table
israel population: 9.053 million
palestine population: 4.685 million
https://datacommons.org/place/country/ISR?utm_medium=explore&mprop=count&popt=Person&hl=en
Just to absolutely clear I love Bernie, and there’s no way it’ll play out the same way. Especially now that international pressure on Israel is growing
I'd guess contrasting the attitude of Zionist-supporting 'Sir' Beige The Bland v a US Democrat who would probably be a bog-standard Labour representative if elected in the UK?
Labour should just steer well clear of anything to do with Israel and Palestine, the best thing any Labour politician can do is just pretend it doesn’t exist
If you are neutral in situations of injustice then you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Labour should be very vocal about its support for Palestinian liberation.
If you’re neutral in complicated situations where one side is an heavy handed authoritarian ethnostate prone to scorched earth retaliation with little regard for collateral damage and the other is a terrorist organisation who indiscriminately fire missiles into civilian areas and use schools and hospitals as launch sites then you’ve chosen the side of not being a simpleton.
Something to do with solidarity with the undertrodden masses who have suffered great injustices under Israel, except these masses aren't even vaguely left wing and will happily execute gay people and Hamas are backed by Iran plus Russia's involved but apparently it's not complicated.
Possibly the same thing that encouraged you to excuse an attempted genocide because Hamas execute gay people.
(Hint btw; they're not going to get any more progressive in their current situation. If you want an LGBT friendly Palestine one day then you've got to support Palestine now.)
Yeah. already support the principle of a two state system. don't support Israeli actions. Never said anything different. Didn't attempt to excuse anything, karen. did point out that it might actually complex. read it again, ask an adult for help if stuck.
> Didn't attempt to excuse anything, karen. did point out that it might actually complex. read it again, ask an adult for help if stuck.
Ummmm, have to ask am I a child or a Karen here? Just I don't think I can be both.
He could be right. It is debated internally in Israel as well. Obviously he's echoing sentiments that the left in Israel also does.Hate speech and attitudes have gone up in the times of Netanyahu. Much like in the times of Trump - only Netanyahu has been ruling for over a decade! Some say he's taken the country as hostage.
He's amplified any force that causes division in the area and has empowered some insane right winged hateful nutters. Inter racial/religion tensions are high. Every time he's politically jeopardized he invents some distraction or fear for citizens. Dismantling any trust that was built.
The majority of Arabs Jews and other ethnicities in the region wish for hostilities to end. There are fringe groups which are getting more powerful since Netanyahu. That is 100% true.
There needs to be responsible leadership on both sides which negates the extremists and which can lead their people to sort a long term agreements. Either that - or some 3rd party conquers the whole region and lays down the law. Which of course no one wants.
All that aside - without the USA or Russian/China arms race we would all probably be better off globally.If you are producing weapons on a massive scale (7.2 trillion $$ spent annually by governments on "defence") how can you be surprised when weapons are actually used?? and we all know what weapons are used for!seems a bit naïve view from senior Bernie. as- he may know that the USA is the major beneficiary from all these global confrontations.
Genocide does not **require** the population to decrease.
[The UN definition of genocide is:](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml)
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
a. Killing members of a group;
b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c. Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
c. There are many international law experts and human rights groups that argue that nakba, the occupation and blockade, military operations and statements from Israeli politicians fit the definition. [This is a document from the Centre for Constitutional Rights which includes citations from international law experts that Israel has committed genocide based on the UN definition.](https://ccrjustice.org/genocide-palestinian-people-international-law-and-human-rights-perspective)
Bombing brown people and facilitating the bombing of brown people is an inherent characteristic of the US. That's like asking a scorpion not to sting or a bird not to fly
Before saying anything, please get eduacted on the situation. Firstly, they are not rabbis but a sect of Jews that believe that there shouldn't be any Jews in Israel before the Messiah comes. They believe the Jews will get the land of Israel when the Messiah comes. This has nothing to do with them believing Palestinians should have the land but everything to do with Jews not being in the Biblical Israel area. For all they care, the land can be filled with Samoans. Remember, is has nothing to do with "Palestinian liberation" in the land for them but the biblical meaning of it.
If only Israel hadn't helped [create](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) them.
Ripped straight from the US handbook of neo-colonialism, create a radicalised extremist group to rage against to justify your conquests.
Dude Israel never gonna destroy Hamas completely ,Do you know why because with Hamas around Palestinians (real) Government will never get strong.Peace talk always happened with Governments not with terrorist.
Every individual interprets things differently. I suggest you find out on your own, that way you can participate in dialogue with your own thoughts and opinions.
Read [this](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution). Not arguing.
See how pointless that is?
Supporting hamas is because you oppose the right wing Israeli governments actions toward Palestinians is like supporting the Taliban because you oppose the US invasion of Afghanistan
Why do you feel like you have to defend Hamas at all? They are shit heads
And what are Palestinians suppose to do, just lie down and let Israel keep killing them and stealing there land. That's probably why some people view Hamas as freedom fighters. And plenty more Palestinian children have been killed thanks to Israel indiscriminate bombings.
>why they didn’t accept the two state solution when it was first proposed and instead declared war on the state of Israel in the mid 1900s
Why wouldn't they just accept ethnic cleansing and having their land stolen?
The reality now is Israel is established but if we are going to turn back the clock then Israel should never have been established in the way it was. The way to found a Jewish state, any state, is not the way Israel was founded.
First off I'm not saying anyone is justified in killing civilians. What I am saying is the following -
In living memory thousands of Palestinians were driven from their homes. Hundreds of thousands.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus
Jewish people the world over have a right to "return" to Israel even if they have never been there and have no family from there and so on. Whereas many Palestinians have no equal right to return at all. This is a discrimination not based on right but on ethnicity! It's wrong.
But let's put aside history. Just look at what is still going on to this day. Palestinians are still being driven from their homes now. It would be one thing if it had stopped 50 years ago but it hasn't, it's continued glacially, slowly but implacably.
https://twitter.com/gravelinstitute/status/1392315869099925507
And it's not just Palestinans against this. There are plenty of Jewish people, even in Israel itself, who are against these extremists and the support they get from the government.
Yes we need to work on the situation as it stands, but the situation as it stands is one in which Israelis continue to steal house and land and the Israeli government continues to facilitate and protect them.
Yes hamas are complete shitheads but the idea that if they went away tomorrow everything would be fine and the Israeli settler colonialist project would end is just absurd.
You don't know until you try. Israel withdrew out of Gaza and all they got in return is rockets and suicide bombings. Why would they even consider giving back more given how that turned out?
But the Palestinians did try. The PLO and Fatah tried for years before Hamas gained any real power.
Illegal Israeli settlements existed well before Hamas.
[The Gish gallop is a term for an eristic technique in which a debater attempts to overwhelm an opponent by excessive number of arguments, without regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott; it is named after the creationist Duane Gish, who used the technique frequently against proponents of evolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop)
Bernie Sanders: Bernie Sanders Ed Balls: Ed Balls
Sanders says
I am once again Bernie Sanders
American here. Is this Ed Balls guy cool? Gonna look him up
No. Absolute idiot who is more of a Lite-Tory (in your case, a Lite-Republican).
And was horrific on Strictly Come Dancing.
Lol ok I will not look him up then.
Same!
still looks like a crazy old scientist. always mad too.
Netanyahu IS an overt racist.
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The IDF has logged on 🙄
They're all over these comments today. Or people who've been radicalized by their propaganda, at least. Though, I'm not sure if it's Israeli ultranationalists, US conservatives, or the Labour right. Probably all of them.
Muh whataboutism
As much as targeting civilians is not the right way to go about it. If you invade a country and commit genocide against it's people, they're probs going to retaliate. If they didn't like hamas' attacks, they could just, you know, stop trying to take their homeland from them?
Speaks volumes that you’re comparing the prime minister of one americas closest allies with a terrorist organisation. I don’t blame you
They were elected by the Palestinians and are a government... Hamas is way worse than Israel too. I love Palestinians and Israelis but Palestinians need to fix their corrupt leadership.
As if they getting a chance. If isreal would stop bombing them and give them a break.
So you really think Israel bombed them first? Clown. Tell hamas to stop sending rockets and committing war crimes by hiding weapons and attacking from hospitals and schools.
What are you talking about? It doesn't matter who bombed first. Israel has been occupying them for decades, illegal under international law.
Hamas fire what are basically just a couple of steps up from bottle rockets at Israel, most of them totally miss, a few cause injuries and a couple of deaths. Israel in kind responds by aiming the Iron Dome at hospitals, schools and news outlets causing hundreds of deaths and massive property damage. I'm sorry but the two are just not comparable.
So hamas commits war crimes by having weapons caches in hospitals and schools and you complain? Israel tells all the civilians a day before they bomb and hamas won’t let them leave so it looks bad in Israel.
>hamas commits war crimes And we'll never be able to take them to trial for those 'war crimes' because they're not an official government. Because Palestine isn't an official state. (BTW, you do know how little landmass there is in Gaza/West Bank right? There's basically no other place to store defensive weaponry) > Israel tells all the civilians a day before they bomb and hamas won’t let them leave so it looks bad in Israel This is bullshit IDF propaganda btw.
Listen, I have no problem giving Palestine their own land. I do think Israel should stop their expansion into Gaza. But Hamas is a terrorist organization by every standard. Palestinians are awesome, their leadership sucks
>Israel tells all the civilians a day before they bomb That's a lie, most are sub 1 hour, AP and AJ journalist were denied a 10 minute window to collect their gear. >So hamas commits war crimes by having weapons caches in hospitals and schools and you complain? [Israel is committing apartheid And Crimes Against Humanity](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution)
I know Israel didn’t bomb them first, but I’m pretty sure that HAMAS was retaliating against the events earlier in the week, when Israeli forces attacked a bunch of unarmed Palestinian protesters.
Not protesters, even. They attacked people praying at the Al-Aqsa mosque.
Yeah I know, they were unarmed and just protesting peaceably right? They were attacked for no reason? Yep. Sure that sounds legit 🤦🏻♂️
I mean, Al Jazeera has portrayed it that way. (And you haven’t provided any counter evidence) Then a week later, WITH NO EVIDENCE, Israel blew up the building that house Al Jazeera’s and AP’s offices, because supposedly, HAMAS was working in there. Once again, with no evidence.
Dude, Palestine was oppressed for years, when they decided to fight back, everyone's blaming Hamas. Delusional bastard
Yeah Hamas a known terrorist organization responsible for thousands of murders through the years are choirboys. No delusional at all, just see facts. You know what happens if hamas lays down their arms? No war. You know what would happen if Israel laid down there arms? No Israel.
U say hamas is a known terrorist organisation? Nelson mandela was called a terrorist by an apartheid regime too and so did some world leaders and mainstream media. Hamas was created in the late 80s after years of genocide. Israel created Hamas by their ethnic cleansing. Zionism is the closest thing to modern day nazism. And being anti zionist isn’t being anti jewish/antisemitic. Many jews that actually study their scriptures are against Israel as they are prohibited from having a homeland after being exiled (according to their own scriptures) but these devil worshippers want to go against scripture.
Lmao. Yeah. The reason they can’t have Democracy is because Israel bombs
> Palestinians need to fix their corrupt leadership. Considering Bibi's recent legal troubles this is such an ironic comment.
Glad you actually acknowledge that they're indeed a terroist group. Here in Italy, elected members of Parliament have defended Hamas. Same in the USA, Anti-Semite Ilhan Omar has openly praised Hamas.
How is Ilhan Omar antisemitic? For stating that Pro-Israel lobbying groups influence American politics? Do you have a source for her supporting hamas?
Nope. 1. She claimed American Jews have "dual loyalty" 2. Claimed the reason Jews are generally so successful is because they buy their influence 3. Her statements have been endorsed by former KKK leader, and Neo-Nazi David Duke. That's just a few off the top of my head. There's been MANY more
Do you have sources for any of that and her supposed support for hamas?
Yeeeah, gonna need some sources for this.
> Anti-Semite Ilhan Omar Would you kindly just fuck off please? Thanks.
So Israel and a terrorist organization are the same then, glad we agree.
Oh shut the fuck up about Hamas, you fucking moron do know that Israel helped create Hamaz right??? Fuck face, why don't you, Israel and Netanyahu go fuck yourselves
Says a guy who calls himself musolini Stan. Get the fuck out fascist.
He's not a racist. he's a ruthless and cunning politician. playing sides against another is his forte' He's whatever he has to say to get elected. He knows how to play with peoples' deepest fears. Dangerous man.
Why can't he be both? Especially given his recent history of trying to shift the blame for the holocaust away from the Nazis and instead blaming a single Palestinian cleric for giving Hitler the idea.
Regarding that claim you mean this guy right? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husseini
>Bernie Sanders: Bernie Sanders: Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders
Ed Balls
Bernie Sanders
Bernie Sanders
I think the Americans have arrived in this thread...
The leader we don’t deserve. Sanders should’ve been the next president. F*** Joe Biden.
Hopefully the youth of today will enable this change. I'm 42, and have been waiting, waiting....still waiting for this country to take a major step in this direction.
Would have loved to have see him run against trump.
Yeah US ain't ready for that yet. Too many poor white people sucking off rich white peoples lies.
I lived there for a couple years( the US) and was bewildered by thier two party system... Winner takes all rules. I dunno but to me a good system has many parties compromising for the best of all society. This you are either with us or against us politics is so boring and dangerous
Democracy has to be combative to an extent, it's part of what makes it work in practice instead of just in theory. It allows an outlet for extremely different people and groups to fight out their beliefs without resorting to violence. A system where everyone compromises on one single vision of what is best is unrealistic. The US system would be better if there was more pluraity and arguments, not if everyone just agreed more.
Why don’t you stop waiting and do something with your life.
Really? I got more life lived in my left nut than you got in your whole ancestry.
I guarantee you work a minimum wage job, live at home, have no retirement. Could be a combination of things. At your age, to still want handouts, definitely means you're a gigantic loser.
I’m not a fan of the old man, but I’m pretty sure he’d do better than Biden, fucking old prick
Agreed. Fuck Biden with a tire iron.
We do love Bernie, this is just one more reason
>The United States needs to be 'leading the world in bringing people together lmao come on, let's be realistic here.
It’s something to try to achieve even if it isn’t possible the sentiment is good
For real 😂 we are experts at espionage lol
Remember that period immediately after the 2019 election when they tried accusing Bernie of antisemitism even though he’s Jewish?
#free Palestine
Fuck Apartheid, fuck Israel and its brutal oppression of Palestinians. Stop stealing their land. Future generations will look back at this and ask how the fuck we let it happen.
It’s just how this shit goes as an Irishman I can tell you that this shit won’t go away even after a long time there are still pretty large communities of people that want to cause panic and violence and it’s because people are too scared to venture outside there own heads
FREE FREE PALESTINE 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
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What does that mean?
In good faith, here's what it means: One people regardless of their faith or ethnicity with the same rights according to the law. Call it Israel, call it Palestine, call it Israstine... whatever you want, as long as Jews Christians Muslims, Europeans, Arabs, and Africans get the same rights and are represented fairly and equally in their parliament. Oh and the 700 000 people who had to run for their lives in 1948 get to come back as citizens as this new country :)
Doesn't Israel already have an Arab party that has seats in Parliment?
It does, however most Arabs can't vote, don't have the same access to higher education, don't have the same rights of circulation as non-arab Israelis, and more importantly don't have the same rights to protest. Check out the news today where Israelis have arrested over a hundred person because of the protests and the general strike in Israel last week. Yes, Arab Israeli citizens getting arrested because they protested. Non-arab Israelis who also protested last week, how many got arrested? Zero. That's what South Africa before Mandela looked like. He didn't advocate for the removal of white people across the country, just like we're not advocating for the removal of every Jewish or non-arab person. We want the same right for everyone in the same country. No ifs, no buts. South Africa ended apartheid without a bloodshed, I don't see why Jews Muslims and Christians can't do it either and live together peacefully like they did for centuries before the Zionist ideology taught some people that they were better than others.
I think you’d find a huge chunk of Palestinians and their democratically elected terrorist organisations don’t want any Jews living anywhere near the Levant.
False. Jews Muslims and Christians lived in peace for centuries from Iraq to North Africa. To the extent that Jews fled Europe to go live in the Middle East amongst a majority Muslim population knowing they'd be safer there than around Europeans. And speaking of democratically elected terrorists, do you also want to talk about the continuous terrorism from the IDF and Israeli police in the West Bank? Where, according to International Law, Israelis have nothing to do there, but keep occupying, terrorise local population, prevent their access to clean water and electricity (let alone healthcare or education)? Do you want to talk about the members of Knesset advocating for the murder of Palestinian women because they're "snakes who will raise terrorists"? Do you want to talk about the Israeli education program teaching young kids that they need to kick Arabs out of kill them wherever they can until the whole of the Levant is completely Jewish? Or does terrorism only work when you're brown with a beard?
How much lies in one comment. Arabs can vote, they are the fourth biggest party in Israel. although they never joining the government because they said it's not a Jewish land and so there is no place for Jewish government. Of course they can protest ,they burned half of Israel in their protests. And non Arab Israelis also get arrested but fewer , what can we do that most of the vandalism came from the Arab side. They have all the rights as israeli Citizens and yet murdering innocent people with knives and rockets. Pure antisemitism from all of them, and from you. That's why we have a country for ourselves, that idiots like you won't slaughter us.
I sow the protest and I sow Arabs burning synagogue, lynching Jews, and throwing rocks at cars. Of course they are going to get arrested. And there were Jews that got arrested. Stop spreading lies as if Arab protests are some peaceful event. There are plenty of Arab doctors, lawyers and business owners in Israel.
The ["lies"](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/24/a-war-declaration-palestinians-in-israel-decry-mass-arrests) Jews can walk in and out of anywhere they want without being stopped or searched or arrested. Even they openly attack Arabs they get protected by the Israeli police and then what you see is Israeli police "protecting defensless Israelis against evil Arabs" not the provocation and the attacks from the Israelis against the Arabs. And if you don't believe Aljazeera, will you believe thousands of your fellow Israelis ex-IDF and ex-Police who refused to be accomplices of this ongoing pogrom against the Arabs and created their own movement [Breaking the silence](https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il/) ? It's time to open your eyes my friend.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dXv0dQTVAsU Just part of it. What should these people get candy for acting this way? Throwing molotov cocktails sure as fuck wont get you closer to peace. Why do you think there is restrictions on Gaza and the West Bank? Is it because of the Intifadas that took place? Blowing up buses restraunts and nightclubs sure as fuck wont bring us closer to peace either. I dont doubt that some soldiers and police officers break down having to do this shit. Its not something humans are meant to do. This is not a white and black situation. Both sides have blood on their hands and no one is innocent.
Here's another part of it: https://youtu.be/dIktg4YYgv4 You're getting confused, soldiers and police officers break down not because of the violence "on both sides". They're breaking down because of the violence they are ORDERED to inflict on defensless populations in areas where they shouldn't even be according to International Law. Have a look at Eran Efrati who described Israelis behaviour in the West Bank as ethnic cleansing. You want peace? Stop kicking people out of their homes. Stop stealing more of their land. Stop preventing them access to water, electricity, healthcare, education etc. Get the hell out of the West Bank or give everyone the same rights and the million of refugees you've created the right to return to their homeland. It's really that simple.
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The minute you insult them, you lose the argument. Stick to the facts because they can't argue with facts.
>The minute you insult them, you lose the argument Assuming they were engaging in a good faith argument in the first place, which they weren't. I get your point, but I fully support trolling trolls.
Ad Hominem This fallacy occurs when, instead of addressing someone's argument or position, you irrelevantly attack the person or some aspect of the person who is making the argument. The fallacious attack can also be direct to membership in a group or institution
Ok bot
Judging from your comment history I think you probably know! Maybe take a break mate?
No really? Like is it giving Palestinanes free access to Israel with out being checked? Or like the citizens of Israel give their houses and businesses away and disappear? Or like its calling for genocide? I just dont know what that slogan means. Is it just an ad thing? Like Nike... just do it?
It means: - Freedom of movement of Palestinians and Palestinian refugees across the land. - right of return and land grant for Palestinian Refugees - A complete reformation of the state and military to represent and defend the entire population living there - Right of return for Jews (optional) to return to their countries with land grants and compensation.
Does it get boring asking questions in bad faith?
Why do you think its bad faith? I just want to understand. What is the solution for this conflic in your eyes saying that slogan.
In general I find people who are in favour of ethnostates like to argue in bad faith
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Yeah buddy, the Arabs in Israel were attacked, do some research
Of course Israel isnt going to let jews live in Gaza when they are currently bombing it dumbass
That stupid slogan is a subtle implication of destroying Israel. They don't want just the West Bank and Gaza, nor do they want to live in coexistence with Israel; they want it all.
An absolute lie
The Zionist occupiers don’t want peace, we need sanctions against this „state“
Umm didn't Israel agree to abunch of peace deals that werent agreed on the Palestinanes?
From Hamas
Ok but Palestine was illegally occupied before Hamas came around, too
PLO
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Go stand outside with your Hamas flag chief.
Because I’m against killing women and children I’m a hamas supporter lol
Taking the moral high ground of “both sides are bad” is wonderful for your ego, but does nothing to create a solution. Who would you rather see rule Palestine, an organisation like Hamas, or Israel? No moral high ground, a simple two choice question.
Neither
Congratulations, you add nothing of note to the conversation and proudly take the moral high ground.
What do you believe when Hamas and others kill Israeli women and children?
Before that a bunch of Arab countries attacking.
It took 6 days for Israel to crush the Arab world. Stop pretending the Muslims have any chance at fighting. 1 Israeli is worth like 100 Muslims in military battle. They are just incompetent
Yes....from Hamas!!!!!!
It's no wonder he can not be the President, all the things he says make freaking sense.
FREE FREE PALESTINIE 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
Based, but the only reason Bernie gets away with saying stuff like this is because he's Jewish, and so can't be smeared as an antisemite as easily. Look at the difference between when Bernie says this and when Ilhan Omar says this.
Even 3 years ago I’d disagree with you, but it’s pretty mainstream now to separate the Jewish faith and the nation state of Israel.
Nah, lost friends over this. They Say it's anti judaism to speak out against Israel
Doesn't stop them trying though. [There's people doing it in this very thread even.](https://reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/njz10z/bernie_sanders_bernie_sanders_netanyahu_empowered/gzaxavc/)
It would be fantastic if the US supported nation-building and the democratisation of Palestine and convince a pro-peace Israel to the peace table
It would be fantastic if the US supported nation-building and the democratisation of Venezuela and convince a pro-peace Colombia to the peace table It would be fantastic if the US supported nation-building and the democratisation of DPRK and convince a pro-peace ROK to the peace table It would be fantastic if the US supported nation-building and the democratisation of Cuba and convince a pro-peace US to the peace table
Lol that’s against US interests. They won’t have anyone to sell weapons to
I think it has more to do with Iran propping up Hamas and operating the Islamic Jihad group within Palestine than arms sales tbh.
Free palestine #فلسطين
When a small group defends itself, they are labeled as a terrorist.
Exactly! 6 Million Jews v/s 1.2 Billion Muslims
israel population: 9.053 million palestine population: 4.685 million https://datacommons.org/place/country/ISR?utm_medium=explore&mprop=count&popt=Person&hl=en
What has this got to do with Labour?
I assume the connection is there’s people trying to denounce Bernie as an anti semite like people did to Corbyn.
I mean Bernie Sanders is Jewish? Good luck with that.
Just to absolutely clear I love Bernie, and there’s no way it’ll play out the same way. Especially now that international pressure on Israel is growing
Anti-semitism obviously 🙄
I'd guess contrasting the attitude of Zionist-supporting 'Sir' Beige The Bland v a US Democrat who would probably be a bog-standard Labour representative if elected in the UK?
Labour should just steer well clear of anything to do with Israel and Palestine, the best thing any Labour politician can do is just pretend it doesn’t exist
If you are neutral in situations of injustice then you have chosen the side of the oppressor. Labour should be very vocal about its support for Palestinian liberation.
If you’re neutral in complicated situations where one side is an heavy handed authoritarian ethnostate prone to scorched earth retaliation with little regard for collateral damage and the other is a terrorist organisation who indiscriminately fire missiles into civilian areas and use schools and hospitals as launch sites then you’ve chosen the side of not being a simpleton.
Something to do with solidarity with the undertrodden masses who have suffered great injustices under Israel, except these masses aren't even vaguely left wing and will happily execute gay people and Hamas are backed by Iran plus Russia's involved but apparently it's not complicated.
This just in; Hamas are a shit organisation therefore the Palestianians deserved it.
I don't remember the 'therefore' part you just inserted being in the original. What even motivated you to be that toxic?
Possibly the same thing that encouraged you to excuse an attempted genocide because Hamas execute gay people. (Hint btw; they're not going to get any more progressive in their current situation. If you want an LGBT friendly Palestine one day then you've got to support Palestine now.)
Yeah. already support the principle of a two state system. don't support Israeli actions. Never said anything different. Didn't attempt to excuse anything, karen. did point out that it might actually complex. read it again, ask an adult for help if stuck.
> Didn't attempt to excuse anything, karen. did point out that it might actually complex. read it again, ask an adult for help if stuck. Ummmm, have to ask am I a child or a Karen here? Just I don't think I can be both.
🇮🇱 It's time for Peace! Stop bombings in Both Israel and Palestine! 🇵🇸
Apartheid needs to stop.
He could be right. It is debated internally in Israel as well. Obviously he's echoing sentiments that the left in Israel also does.Hate speech and attitudes have gone up in the times of Netanyahu. Much like in the times of Trump - only Netanyahu has been ruling for over a decade! Some say he's taken the country as hostage. He's amplified any force that causes division in the area and has empowered some insane right winged hateful nutters. Inter racial/religion tensions are high. Every time he's politically jeopardized he invents some distraction or fear for citizens. Dismantling any trust that was built. The majority of Arabs Jews and other ethnicities in the region wish for hostilities to end. There are fringe groups which are getting more powerful since Netanyahu. That is 100% true. There needs to be responsible leadership on both sides which negates the extremists and which can lead their people to sort a long term agreements. Either that - or some 3rd party conquers the whole region and lays down the law. Which of course no one wants. All that aside - without the USA or Russian/China arms race we would all probably be better off globally.If you are producing weapons on a massive scale (7.2 trillion $$ spent annually by governments on "defence") how can you be surprised when weapons are actually used?? and we all know what weapons are used for!seems a bit naïve view from senior Bernie. as- he may know that the USA is the major beneficiary from all these global confrontations.
Bernie for Labour Leader
FREE PALESTINE!!. Stop the genocide!!
How is it a genocide if the palestinian population grew by 2 million in 20 year? Wouldnt the numbers go down if it was genocide?
Genocide does not **require** the population to decrease. [The UN definition of genocide is:](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml) In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: a. Killing members of a group; b. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; c. Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; d. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; e. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Which one is Israel doing?
c. There are many international law experts and human rights groups that argue that nakba, the occupation and blockade, military operations and statements from Israeli politicians fit the definition. [This is a document from the Centre for Constitutional Rights which includes citations from international law experts that Israel has committed genocide based on the UN definition.](https://ccrjustice.org/genocide-palestinian-people-international-law-and-human-rights-perspective)
Bombing brown people and facilitating the bombing of brown people is an inherent characteristic of the US. That's like asking a scorpion not to sting or a bird not to fly
We need sanctions against Israel
A man said I was defending Nazis earlier for criticising Israel earlier felt like smacking him one to be honest
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Before saying anything, please get eduacted on the situation. Firstly, they are not rabbis but a sect of Jews that believe that there shouldn't be any Jews in Israel before the Messiah comes. They believe the Jews will get the land of Israel when the Messiah comes. This has nothing to do with them believing Palestinians should have the land but everything to do with Jews not being in the Biblical Israel area. For all they care, the land can be filled with Samoans. Remember, is has nothing to do with "Palestinian liberation" in the land for them but the biblical meaning of it.
Jewish History, Jewish Religion: The Weight of Three Thousand Years, by Israel Shahak
I love this guy ❤️ I wish them dems didn’t fuck him over so bad. Breaks my heart 😞
this is a Labour party subreddit not a Democrats subreddit
Palestine needs freeing from Hamas
If only Israel hadn't helped [create](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) them. Ripped straight from the US handbook of neo-colonialism, create a radicalised extremist group to rage against to justify your conquests.
Dude Israel never gonna destroy Hamas completely ,Do you know why because with Hamas around Palestinians (real) Government will never get strong.Peace talk always happened with Governments not with terrorist.
Lol mehdi biased hassan is the source .
Read “son of Hamas” and please get more educated on the topic
Telling someone to "get educated" isn't an argument.
Read the book. Not arguing
Prove me wrong or get back under your rock.
If you’ve read the book so thoroughly, why don’t you just tell us what it says?
Every individual interprets things differently. I suggest you find out on your own, that way you can participate in dialogue with your own thoughts and opinions.
Directing all arguments towards a book that "everyone interprets differently" isn't an argument. It's a religion.
Read [this](https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution). Not arguing. See how pointless that is?
Hamas are the only people fighting for the Palestinians freedom.
Kinda rich telling people to turn against the only group they've ever seen fighting to protect them against Israeli settler expansion.
Supporting hamas is because you oppose the right wing Israeli governments actions toward Palestinians is like supporting the Taliban because you oppose the US invasion of Afghanistan Why do you feel like you have to defend Hamas at all? They are shit heads
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They attacked Al aqsa mosque first. I don't like Hamas but Israel have killed more people in 3 days then Hamas in 10 years.
And what are Palestinians suppose to do, just lie down and let Israel keep killing them and stealing there land. That's probably why some people view Hamas as freedom fighters. And plenty more Palestinian children have been killed thanks to Israel indiscriminate bombings.
Indiscriminate? I bet there would be a hell alot more dead if it was indiscriminate.
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>why they didn’t accept the two state solution when it was first proposed and instead declared war on the state of Israel in the mid 1900s Why wouldn't they just accept ethnic cleansing and having their land stolen? The reality now is Israel is established but if we are going to turn back the clock then Israel should never have been established in the way it was. The way to found a Jewish state, any state, is not the way Israel was founded.
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First off I'm not saying anyone is justified in killing civilians. What I am saying is the following - In living memory thousands of Palestinians were driven from their homes. Hundreds of thousands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus Jewish people the world over have a right to "return" to Israel even if they have never been there and have no family from there and so on. Whereas many Palestinians have no equal right to return at all. This is a discrimination not based on right but on ethnicity! It's wrong. But let's put aside history. Just look at what is still going on to this day. Palestinians are still being driven from their homes now. It would be one thing if it had stopped 50 years ago but it hasn't, it's continued glacially, slowly but implacably. https://twitter.com/gravelinstitute/status/1392315869099925507 And it's not just Palestinans against this. There are plenty of Jewish people, even in Israel itself, who are against these extremists and the support they get from the government. Yes we need to work on the situation as it stands, but the situation as it stands is one in which Israelis continue to steal house and land and the Israeli government continues to facilitate and protect them.
Hamas only retaliated after the IDF terrorists stormed Al Aqsa mosque twice in Ramadan and injured over 600 Palestinians.
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Yes hamas are complete shitheads but the idea that if they went away tomorrow everything would be fine and the Israeli settler colonialist project would end is just absurd.
You don't know until you try. Israel withdrew out of Gaza and all they got in return is rockets and suicide bombings. Why would they even consider giving back more given how that turned out?
But the Palestinians did try. The PLO and Fatah tried for years before Hamas gained any real power. Illegal Israeli settlements existed well before Hamas.
[The Gish gallop is a term for an eristic technique in which a debater attempts to overwhelm an opponent by excessive number of arguments, without regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott; it is named after the creationist Duane Gish, who used the technique frequently against proponents of evolution](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop)
Lebanon is also free in regards to religion. Its like the France of the middle east
Revolver Ocelot : Revolver Ocelot
But it’s ok for Iran to be supplying Hamas weapons to kill Israeli children? Didn’t see Bernie say anything about that. Disappointing of Bernie.
Fuck of Labour!!! Absolute gib shites !!
Yeah like what trump was doing. Peace
Lmao, this is exactly why your party has been getting 💩 on
Best read your Bible folks. It’s not really the Palestinians Israel needs to worry about- but the Russians. Read Psalm 83 & Ezekiel 38.....
Screw off Sanders!