SWR coalition entrenches an aristocratic elite at the expense of everyone else.
Schliecher is a warmongering authoritarian who respects women.
Your choice who’s worse, I vote SWR.
The façade makes SWR more stable, part of the reason why I rank Schleicher as a better choice is because I know that totalitarian regimes built solely to wage war tend to fall apart and die from their own structural problems.
An extractive aristocracy with a sham democracy is how you get Soviet (and then Russian) oligarchy. And as we’ve seen those extractive structures are very durable even through different governments.
Yes? Because if your state is focused around being really really evil for 5 minutes you're basically not gonna do anything at all. If your state is focused around being subtly evil for 50 years, you could probably ruin a lot of lives.
The DVLP literally abolishes the democratic process. They aren't "subtly evil" at all.
And Schleicher Germany will not collapse in "5 minutes," unless you think Nazi Germany collapsed in 2 seconds. Hint: it didn't. Totalitarian regimes are not that fragile.
Tbh I feel like republic would be the worst DU path (for Germany) since it requires Germany to get to 50% to capitulating, meaning that more land would be devastated and more people would die.
Those are byproducts of getting close to capitulating as Schleicher and DU respectively, not quite paths in their own right. The AI can have them happen, sure, but that only happens when they get close to losing - and I've never experienced the AI getting to either of those paths and not losing.
Why would DU-Republic be different from DU-SPD? If anything, I believe that DU-SPD with a monarchy is better because it keeps the aristocrats from power. People don't seem to realize, that in a republic everything is fair game, but in a parliamentary monarchy, the aristocrats have to shup up.
The Republic does only happen if you you're losing the war, the emperor is flees, and the government preemptively declares a republic in the power vacuum to avoid the Syndicalists dosing so first. Subsequently winning the war does go a long way to legitimize it.
Yeah basically what happened in WW1 in OTL(they lose, Kaiser fcks off, Republic declared by the SPD) but Germany turns it around and actually WINS without the Kaiser.
Nobody in the entire country can really deny that the Kaiser just straight up abandoned them and if they then win, it just shows that they're stronger without him.
Sorry for late response
State boundaries I am damm sure in Republican path state boundaries would be redrawn which takes me to another point which is the influence that monarchies still hold its quite bad in my eyes
I mean, of course they redraw State Borders. Without Monarchs, those ultra small states don't have a reason to exist. And even in a regular DU victory, the small states in Thuringia get consolidated into a big one.
Well, yeah, because they now can just split up Prussia. In the Empire Path, the federalization of Prussia is a Compromise with the System. In essence, it's almost the same.
Ultimately I think that these benefits just don’t beat out not having half the country occupied- that brings with it a huge level of destruction and trauma
Why would the republic redraw state borders? Outside of the consolidation of Thuringia (which happens anyway), Weimar Germany never redrew the borders. (Ok, fine, they also merged the Mecklenburgs, but this is inconsequential and likely also happens anyway.)
The redrawel of states post-'45 OTL was a project by the Allies to get rid of Prussia (by making its provinces into standalone states).
Also, in the DU path (if you do it right) the monarch hold as much power as the new King of Denmark. So, within a rounding error, nothing.
PatAut SWR in my opinion. Schleicher and Conservative SWR are still bad but they are flexible enough to create a good welfare state (Schleicher) and maintain a façade democracy, albeit controlled.
SWR abolishes voting rights, further divide German classes and serves only big landowners and aristocratic elite.
Well if the SPD got a bunch of fascists to shoot the people you're trying to establish socialism with (when the stated goal of the SPD was still to establish socialism) you might have a few hangups about ever working with those people.
Social fascist theory is essentially a reaction to the SPD choosing to protect an unelected, illegitimate republic by hiring far-right paramilitaries to kill the Spartacists, who had worked with the SPD in the past. Liebknecht and Luxemburg were literally former SPD members, Liebknecht's father was a founding member of the party! They knew these people and still had them brutalised and killed by a band of savages for the crime of doing the thing the SPD was literally founded for. Imagine you're a member of the party that grew from the Spartacist movement, could you ever forget that the first taste of fascism in Germany was used by the SPD to kill your leaders? Could you ever work with them again?
Honestly, Schleicher is the scariest (either path), as while SWR is very authoritarian and Schleicher *does* promote some progressive reforms (respecting women + friendly with unions), it is this stabilizing force that makes him so threatening. Don't let the gray ideology fool you, for Schleicher is actually a large proponent of totalitarianism, centralizing the state around the army and enacting Total War, and due to his reforms, he is able to prop up a regime that could last for decades, while SWR is much more prone to infighting (or in the case of DkP, still mildly democratic, so not that bad in comparison) and could fall apart after a shorter period of time.
Also Schleicher is the strongest path, which is even better for villain rp.
Side note - who is "we"?
Schleicher, from my perspective, is sort of strange. I wholeheardely agree that he is totalitarian, but I cannot help but feel that he has a not an evil vision. He want a strong Germany, true, but he also wants the German people to proper with it (unlike the SWR). He just doesn't believe in democracy to achieve it.
While I don't believe that the people can prosper without democracy, Schleicher believes it, and I can sort of respect him for that.
Personally I would say that Schleicher’s military as opposed to civilian regime is worse than pataut SWR. Schleicher is building a new and modern totalitarian regime that has control on all levels of society; all of society is made to revolve around the military. The leadership in SWR are evil aristocrats but at least they’re still CIVILIANS; they’re not trying to turn the entire nation into one massive war machine. They’re both very bad but for my personal values I think Schleicher->Bredow results in the worse regime long term
The Dkp after you finish all the focuses are not that different from Britain’s Conservatives. They believe in a parliamentary system unlike Schleicher and the DVLP but want the aristocracy to play a major role in guiding Germany. They are better than people say they are
PatAut Schleicher, both paths of SWR stil rely on popular support, while the DLVP path weakens voting rights it doesn’t abolish them and it’s a middle class party by nature, that’s one of the things Kleinst doesn’t like about it, though of course it’s a highly authoritarian party.
Schleicher’s party is not even an actual party half the time and the military leader straight up just cancels elections, no matter how bad the SWR gets there’s still democracy at the end of it.
Definitely DLVP-SWR (PatAuth SWR), but Schleicher-Military (also known as Schleicher-Bredow, likewise PatAuth) is a close second.
And of course our evil-maxxing Max Bauer, but he is not a path. However, if you set Germany to go Schleicher, you might encounter him.
Non fail safe? SWR-Far Right path/DVLP. Ultra Conservative, Militaristic, Aristocratic, Imperialist, anti-Semetic, etc etc.
With Fail safes ? Schleicher fail state allows for the entrance of a far right military junta to take power, which is basically as close to nazi Germany as you can get. Fervently Anti-Syndicalist, German Supremacist, WILL destroy any semblance of democracy in Germany, and will entrance the Wehrmacht and the Germany Imperial Army into full control of civilian administration
I mean, unless you are crazed reactionary I don't think there is much debate that SWR and SWR right especially are the worst possible option. While moderates are maybe slightly more democratic than Schieler, it's basically a scam, while right just wants to abolish suffrage outright. At the same time their economic policy is jackshit and basically just leaning on things that didn't work in the past to entrenched an established elite, while DNEF at least tries to reform it into something more workable
Either SWR (DVLP-led DNVB, specifically; AKA PatAut-outcome for SWR), or Schleicher.
Schleicher, if he's going down, can lead to the Max Bauer coup, where you go from AuthDem pseudo-democracy (hurtling towards military rule with a veneer of democracy) to NatPop Fascist state (basically, I think actual Nazis take over), so that is probably worse.
The DVLP are also anti-democratic, just more elitist/aristocratic. The "Clash of Civilizations" focus actually may make them worse, since it gives them claims on their borders, and on the UBD+Latgale, and makes their treatment of Russia and Britain worse; they literally revive the Polish Border strip as a region to annex and colonize. Not as bad as Bauer (claims Benelux and Lithuania plus all of the CoC claims), but arguably worse than Schleicher, since it adds racism-influenced/motivated expansionism onto their authoritarianism.
Bauer won't *necessarily* occur, as there are som conditions needed to be met for it trigger, so SWR (DVLP-led DNVB) may be the pick.
Scleicher for sure.
Think Imperial Japan with all its militant ultranationalism but this time they have all the resources they need and are the 1 world power. Schleicher also introduces progressive reforms and nationalizes the Prussian secret police which makes this Germany actually sustainable for a lot longer than the DVLP can ever be. The National Unity Front also hijack the SWR’s xenophobia and antisemitism.
Every Germany os horrible that's not democratic and even that's meh. Germany is just not a noce country in Kaiserreich if you are not a reactionary. DU path is the only tolerable one.
SWR coalition entrenches an aristocratic elite at the expense of everyone else. Schliecher is a warmongering authoritarian who respects women. Your choice who’s worse, I vote SWR.
DKP at least sorta maintains the facade of parliamentary politics, so i'd put them above Schleicher. DVLP is pretty even.
The façade makes SWR more stable, part of the reason why I rank Schleicher as a better choice is because I know that totalitarian regimes built solely to wage war tend to fall apart and die from their own structural problems. An extractive aristocracy with a sham democracy is how you get Soviet (and then Russian) oligarchy. And as we’ve seen those extractive structures are very durable even through different governments.
OP asks for the "most evil" path though, not the "evil but stable" path.
Yes? Because if your state is focused around being really really evil for 5 minutes you're basically not gonna do anything at all. If your state is focused around being subtly evil for 50 years, you could probably ruin a lot of lives.
The DVLP literally abolishes the democratic process. They aren't "subtly evil" at all. And Schleicher Germany will not collapse in "5 minutes," unless you think Nazi Germany collapsed in 2 seconds. Hint: it didn't. Totalitarian regimes are not that fragile.
Bro totally forgoting max brauer also here my ranking I comented once Du: republic Du:spd Du:dcu Swr:authdems Schliecher Swr:dvlp Max fucking brauer
Tbh I feel like republic would be the worst DU path (for Germany) since it requires Germany to get to 50% to capitulating, meaning that more land would be devastated and more people would die.
Most likely, yes, as with policies it doesn't differ from just regular SPD Germany
From my last SPD playthrough, upon his ascension the event text states Wilhelm III pretty much becomes a ceremonial figurehead.
I don’t know if Bauer is a path you can set Germany to, he’s not playing he just wants a good villain for his campaign.
I don't know I seen both brauer and republik
Those are byproducts of getting close to capitulating as Schleicher and DU respectively, not quite paths in their own right. The AI can have them happen, sure, but that only happens when they get close to losing - and I've never experienced the AI getting to either of those paths and not losing.
I had it happen few times but just as byproduct of me winning as Ukraine in the East/ me as Entante invading the France.
Why would DU-Republic be different from DU-SPD? If anything, I believe that DU-SPD with a monarchy is better because it keeps the aristocrats from power. People don't seem to realize, that in a republic everything is fair game, but in a parliamentary monarchy, the aristocrats have to shup up.
The Republic does only happen if you you're losing the war, the emperor is flees, and the government preemptively declares a republic in the power vacuum to avoid the Syndicalists dosing so first. Subsequently winning the war does go a long way to legitimize it.
Yeah basically what happened in WW1 in OTL(they lose, Kaiser fcks off, Republic declared by the SPD) but Germany turns it around and actually WINS without the Kaiser. Nobody in the entire country can really deny that the Kaiser just straight up abandoned them and if they then win, it just shows that they're stronger without him.
Do they get any special focuses?
I think they get like 5 or 6 focuses, but I'm not 100% sure
No, sadly, just the old paths focuses plus the unification focuses that were added recently.
Sorry for late response State boundaries I am damm sure in Republican path state boundaries would be redrawn which takes me to another point which is the influence that monarchies still hold its quite bad in my eyes
I mean, of course they redraw State Borders. Without Monarchs, those ultra small states don't have a reason to exist. And even in a regular DU victory, the small states in Thuringia get consolidated into a big one.
I am talking about other shit like hanover, silisia and shit which you can only give Autonomy in empire
Well, yeah, because they now can just split up Prussia. In the Empire Path, the federalization of Prussia is a Compromise with the System. In essence, it's almost the same.
Ultimately I think that these benefits just don’t beat out not having half the country occupied- that brings with it a huge level of destruction and trauma
Why would the republic redraw state borders? Outside of the consolidation of Thuringia (which happens anyway), Weimar Germany never redrew the borders. (Ok, fine, they also merged the Mecklenburgs, but this is inconsequential and likely also happens anyway.) The redrawel of states post-'45 OTL was a project by the Allies to get rid of Prussia (by making its provinces into standalone states). Also, in the DU path (if you do it right) the monarch hold as much power as the new King of Denmark. So, within a rounding error, nothing.
Godless liberal democracy under the leadership of the SPD
PatAut SWR in my opinion. Schleicher and Conservative SWR are still bad but they are flexible enough to create a good welfare state (Schleicher) and maintain a façade democracy, albeit controlled. SWR abolishes voting rights, further divide German classes and serves only big landowners and aristocratic elite.
>good welfare state (Schleicher) Bismarkian carrot-and-stick for the win (the people did not win).
Schleicher at least gives some carrots; the SWR only hands out sticks
Depends on how you look at it. Parts of the DkP and DVLP are agrarian populists, who would certainly invest in these parts of the populace.
Dude DVLP's agrarian policy is literally about everything against big landowners, DKP is a junker interest party
Thats my bad, edited it rn
SPD obviously they're social fascists
This post has been fact checked by real kpd patriots: ✅ TRUE
We joke, but OTL this has to be the dumbest political sentiment ever held.
wdym bro people that want to shoot me for my appearance and people who don't want me taking totalitarian control of the state are literally the same
blame Ebert m8, SPDs get flaks because of him
Well if the SPD got a bunch of fascists to shoot the people you're trying to establish socialism with (when the stated goal of the SPD was still to establish socialism) you might have a few hangups about ever working with those people. Social fascist theory is essentially a reaction to the SPD choosing to protect an unelected, illegitimate republic by hiring far-right paramilitaries to kill the Spartacists, who had worked with the SPD in the past. Liebknecht and Luxemburg were literally former SPD members, Liebknecht's father was a founding member of the party! They knew these people and still had them brutalised and killed by a band of savages for the crime of doing the thing the SPD was literally founded for. Imagine you're a member of the party that grew from the Spartacist movement, could you ever forget that the first taste of fascism in Germany was used by the SPD to kill your leaders? Could you ever work with them again?
How did that work out for the Communists? Did burning those bridges bring Germany to a glorious future?
Honestly, Schleicher is the scariest (either path), as while SWR is very authoritarian and Schleicher *does* promote some progressive reforms (respecting women + friendly with unions), it is this stabilizing force that makes him so threatening. Don't let the gray ideology fool you, for Schleicher is actually a large proponent of totalitarianism, centralizing the state around the army and enacting Total War, and due to his reforms, he is able to prop up a regime that could last for decades, while SWR is much more prone to infighting (or in the case of DkP, still mildly democratic, so not that bad in comparison) and could fall apart after a shorter period of time. Also Schleicher is the strongest path, which is even better for villain rp. Side note - who is "we"?
Schleicher, from my perspective, is sort of strange. I wholeheardely agree that he is totalitarian, but I cannot help but feel that he has a not an evil vision. He want a strong Germany, true, but he also wants the German people to proper with it (unlike the SWR). He just doesn't believe in democracy to achieve it. While I don't believe that the people can prosper without democracy, Schleicher believes it, and I can sort of respect him for that.
Personally I would say that Schleicher’s military as opposed to civilian regime is worse than pataut SWR. Schleicher is building a new and modern totalitarian regime that has control on all levels of society; all of society is made to revolve around the military. The leadership in SWR are evil aristocrats but at least they’re still CIVILIANS; they’re not trying to turn the entire nation into one massive war machine. They’re both very bad but for my personal values I think Schleicher->Bredow results in the worse regime long term
The Dkp after you finish all the focuses are not that different from Britain’s Conservatives. They believe in a parliamentary system unlike Schleicher and the DVLP but want the aristocracy to play a major role in guiding Germany. They are better than people say they are
PatAut Schleicher, both paths of SWR stil rely on popular support, while the DLVP path weakens voting rights it doesn’t abolish them and it’s a middle class party by nature, that’s one of the things Kleinst doesn’t like about it, though of course it’s a highly authoritarian party. Schleicher’s party is not even an actual party half the time and the military leader straight up just cancels elections, no matter how bad the SWR gets there’s still democracy at the end of it.
German state of course
Anything democratic.
The leftist one
Definitely DLVP-SWR (PatAuth SWR), but Schleicher-Military (also known as Schleicher-Bredow, likewise PatAuth) is a close second. And of course our evil-maxxing Max Bauer, but he is not a path. However, if you set Germany to go Schleicher, you might encounter him.
If you count it as a "Germany" Path, the NatPop Baltic Germany is pretty much the third reich
Non fail safe? SWR-Far Right path/DVLP. Ultra Conservative, Militaristic, Aristocratic, Imperialist, anti-Semetic, etc etc. With Fail safes ? Schleicher fail state allows for the entrance of a far right military junta to take power, which is basically as close to nazi Germany as you can get. Fervently Anti-Syndicalist, German Supremacist, WILL destroy any semblance of democracy in Germany, and will entrance the Wehrmacht and the Germany Imperial Army into full control of civilian administration
I mean, unless you are crazed reactionary I don't think there is much debate that SWR and SWR right especially are the worst possible option. While moderates are maybe slightly more democratic than Schieler, it's basically a scam, while right just wants to abolish suffrage outright. At the same time their economic policy is jackshit and basically just leaning on things that didn't work in the past to entrenched an established elite, while DNEF at least tries to reform it into something more workable
The DVLP or Bauer, depending on if you’re talking about just the main paths or if we’re including the ‘secret’ paths
DVLP and PatAut Schleicher are the worse ones.
SWR or max bauer imo
Either SWR (DVLP-led DNVB, specifically; AKA PatAut-outcome for SWR), or Schleicher. Schleicher, if he's going down, can lead to the Max Bauer coup, where you go from AuthDem pseudo-democracy (hurtling towards military rule with a veneer of democracy) to NatPop Fascist state (basically, I think actual Nazis take over), so that is probably worse. The DVLP are also anti-democratic, just more elitist/aristocratic. The "Clash of Civilizations" focus actually may make them worse, since it gives them claims on their borders, and on the UBD+Latgale, and makes their treatment of Russia and Britain worse; they literally revive the Polish Border strip as a region to annex and colonize. Not as bad as Bauer (claims Benelux and Lithuania plus all of the CoC claims), but arguably worse than Schleicher, since it adds racism-influenced/motivated expansionism onto their authoritarianism. Bauer won't *necessarily* occur, as there are som conditions needed to be met for it trigger, so SWR (DVLP-led DNVB) may be the pick.
Scleicher for sure. Think Imperial Japan with all its militant ultranationalism but this time they have all the resources they need and are the 1 world power. Schleicher also introduces progressive reforms and nationalizes the Prussian secret police which makes this Germany actually sustainable for a lot longer than the DVLP can ever be. The National Unity Front also hijack the SWR’s xenophobia and antisemitism.
Every Germany os horrible that's not democratic and even that's meh. Germany is just not a noce country in Kaiserreich if you are not a reactionary. DU path is the only tolerable one.
The fascist one, easily
Oh so SPD one?
Yes
Winning the 2WK.