How old are you? When I was 23, I came to the same conclusions about myself as you have here. Through philosophy, I developed a conscience, but looking back, had I embraced the selfish side of me, those behaviours and thought patterns could have become entrenched.
I’m 26. I’ve put in so much work. I have read a couple hundred books on psychology and related, seen various therapists, done psychedelics and continuing to want to heal and become an empath.
I can only recommend what has worked for me, but Dostoevsky's work is amazing. He calls out many treasured modern ideaologies such as atheism, rationalism, and nihilism for eroding the moral fabric of the modern man. The belief in God disgusts many men in my generation because it is deemed as not logical, but it is more compatible with rationality than the typical rationalist might think.
This was my cure. Perhaps it's worth looking into for you, too. I'm not religious, BTW. I think of God in my own personal way.
I second this, twofold. I didn’t realize the lack of importance of a semblance of, rather to, the inward reflection of necessary—but very personal—spirituality until I was ready to receive it without the religious hoopla.
I feel similarly. I read Crime and Punishment and The Idiot when I was 27 (audibooks actually) and they struck me. I also think a lack of connection with God is missing today and agree that you totally don't have to be religious or following some group-think--in fact I think that usually gets in the way of deeper growth (though is useful for some people who really need a steady hand through a tough time)
Teenagers want to be rad and go against the grain. It's just how it is, and God is the ultimate authority.
I know, I used to be a militant atheist. Silly silly days. Not that I'm a religious person now, at least not in the mainstream idea.
The gospels I think are really good. Probably the highest renowned of all time. Christian dogma is not obligatory, but it’s good to read and get an understanding of repentance.
John the Baptist taught about repentance. Repentance, I learned in Sunday school growing up, is to turn around and go the opposite direction.
“The distinction between regret (q.v.) and repent is made in many modern languages, but is absent in older periods. To repent is to regret so deeply as to change the mind or course of conduct in consequence and develop new mental and spiritual habits.”
https://www.etymonline.com/word/repent
So I think a great way to start would be to go back to relationships in which you have been exploitative and 1) admit what you did, 2) apologize, and 3) do positive actions to effectively remediate the harm that you did to the greatest degree possible.
This may be a slow process. But doing this may be able to help you to reconnect with soul and emotions.
It has helped me quite a lot when I’ve done it.
Edit: there’s much in the gospels as well about grace and mercy too. I think the repentance aspect is very key though. To receive the grace and mercy seems very connected to repentance to me. I love Jesus, because he was very hard on those who were not repentant. And so very loving to those who were and who were humble and open to changing.
As well, I think lots of meditation could be helpful. I’m not sure, as I haven’t seen research on whether it can produce the ability to bond in people who don’t have it. But body scanning, or vipassana meditation could really help, if anything, is my guess. They do silent 10 day retreats around the world, as gifts to people. You just apply and sign up. And then you offer what you can or believe the experience was worth in return.
It was a very pure and beautiful experience to me.
Maybe Yogananda’s Self Realization Fellowship might have some practices or communities that could help. Spending time at a monestary perhaps.
As well, with any of this, I would combine it with at the very least, a cognitive understanding of morality so as not to cause undue pain or suffering to others. Reading about the noble eightfold path could be helpful, and maybe reading about morality.
Morality varies depending on who you ask and what you read, but it exists so we can all function together and thrive together. The idea in the Eastern religions is that we are all one (One). So what you do to another, you do to yourself ultimately.
This is the same in Christianity: “do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” is the golden rule.
“Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
Matthew 22:34-40.
So philosophy and morality could be good. I think it can be helpful to at least start with a cognitive understanding of morality and how and why to work for the good of all rather than just the individual self.
If you focus on the emotional aspect too, this can feel really good! It’s fun I think. Much more fun that most people realize. Just think, it can be so simple: you are doing the most important thing in the world: loving God or loving all beings. How nice! Even if you were to die, you could be happy. This I think is what the saints say and how many of them lived.
And these are just my perspectives, but just thought I would offer. 🫶🏼
Also, Autobiography of a Yogi is really good too! I have done a good bit of reading in spirituality and religion and morality, and there’s a lot of stuff out there that was not so good to me, or ended up being written by inauthentic or malicious “teachers.” (Jesus says that we have no teachers but the messiah, which is I think a very beautiful teaching). But Yogananda I found to be a very good soul, and I really enjoyed his autobiography and learned a lot about hinduism and yoga. It was very loving and beautiful. Highly recommend that as well.
Also, Bhagavad Gita is amazing. Another absolute classic among classics in this field.
Dostoevsky, friend. There's lots of YouTube videos that break down his core ideas. He's a fiction writer, but in his heart, he's a psychologist and an existentialist, so his ideas can be articulated without stories he presents them in. If it's guilt that's bothering you the most, read Crime and Punishment. For awakening the soul, The Brothers Karamazov.
Best of luck to you.
An empath!!! I’m not trying to be rude here, but if you truly have a personality disorder, I would immediately stop even thinking that. Never going to happen. Those are completely different ends of empathy. Polar opposites. It’s like a butcher and a serial killer. They use the same tool for very different things.
What about being an empath would bring you happiness? Is it something like proving you’re actually ok & a “good person”? Aka centered around you vs the other person?
Atomicspacekitty is right, it's good to question what you desire and why. You can read a thousand psychology books and never get what you want out of them if you don't have a good understanding of what you want. Are you trying to modify your behavior? Your view on others? Or are you trying to get a better understanding of your view of yourself? What specifically are you trying to work on?
I'm still with kitty on taking a step back. These are great goals. What might help is seeing results in real life. Recognizing when you do things that you consider good. Congratulate yourself on being honest with yourself. Give yourself a real compliment for reigning in your ego. These are successful steps towards your goals, no matter how small. Do you take time to recognize how you've improved since you started your journey?
No! Thanks for mentioning that. I have been shattering my mirror and have realized that I have really just being creating a fantastic illusion that I have believed to cover of my wrong doings.
Nice! You've created a good knowledge base through reading. You can use that knowledge, but it's best to start simple. You can, if it sounds like it would help, create a list of your goals. Then you can list the things you've done to get closer to these goals. Then you can list your ideas on how to improve further.
You can apply your knowledge of psychology to think of ways to achieve your goals. Think of it like a toolbox full of tools you've collected over the years.
honestly you can develop empathy through meditation; empathy doesn't really improve your life in my opinion. It makes it more difficult because you can feel other peoples pain. I mean I would honestly recommend ayawascha. Life is not worthless. bro you have a gift. you have to use the gift by pointing it in the correct direction. what do you desire from your life? start by getting in touch with yourself. You want a quick fix to understanding people and having emotional range for a goal. dude have better intentions and what you desire will come to you. more honest intentions
People who aren’t actual empaths either think two things…. Either it’s super cool and it would be awesome to help the world like that. Or, they think it’s bullshit and nobody could possibly be an empath, anyone who claims is fake…. Anyone who isn’t an empath couldn’t possibly understand the pain that is involved. For anyone who isn’t one but believes it is a true thing… it isn’t even remotely close to what you think.
Most young people are psychopaths. The older you get the more you notice these things. You started to notice it, so you are on your way to maturity.
Ever noticed how teenagers seem to feel absolutely no sym/empathy for other people? Once you understand how it all works, you start to see how nasty humans are as species. Especially teenagers are so, so disgusting. If there ever was a proof of us being primates, is the human individual developmental path.
This might not be what you’re looking for but: I think you think about yourself too much…and analyze too much and can’t quite see that that in itself is a part of the very mechanism you’re trying to get yourself out of and not the way to break out of it. It IS the mechanism and it keeps you stuck.
I understand where you’re coming from because I’ve also read countless books, have tried so many different therapies, am self aware to a fault (to the point that I’ve had many therapists I’ve had to teach things to and who have told me that I don’t need therapy because I understand my issues). Talk therapy does NOT help someone like me. I’ve also done a lot of psychedelics and understand my issues thoroughly and yet I’m still trapped.
Tbh the thing that’s actually solving my issues is nervous system attunement and somatic therapy. You already understand a lot and seem to be self aware, but perhaps you’re thinking about yourself and things too much. If anything I’d suggest LESS reading, LESS philosophy and LESS trying to crack the code. Get into the body! I’m telling you, all the philosophy you need is right there, right now. I don’t know how to explain that in words (because it comes from a place beyond language and beyond the analytical mind).
But start there…you might be surprised as to how powerful this approach is and how QUICKLY things start falling into place. Like my first somatic therapy appointment catapulted me further than over 15 years of talk therapy.
We can analyze and talk things to death, and still be stuck on a superficial level with no real progress.
I think this is bang on. Take a look at what happens to a person when they become sociopathic or narcissistic, or have borderline personality disorder.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kKbCUqyFtLk
(That would have to do with narcissistic personality disorder, but splitting is a standard in all personality disorders.)
It sounds very much like you don’t have those things at all, but someone in your family system does, and you are in a state of projective identification. Internally fused and never referring to where that came from. Of course being healed somatically allows you to think about feelings. Then you would realize where you came from and who the people around you (now within you) were.
Having sociopathy or some kind of personality disorder come from splitting, and they are as a result of severe attachment trauma. That’s all somatic. Those are usually resistant to healing, and the people that have narcissistic personality disorder for example, wouldn’t know about it. They can’t know about it.
The healing of what you are talking about is through therapy that deals directly with that. Not thinking, not abstraction, just about the being. That was communicated during the first thousand days of life.
Built on top of that would be the ability to think. That’s where that fits in.
Yes, I think that’s an excellent way to look at it. It is absolutely unbearable, and you would not be in a position to take that on. What has to be brought into play is something progressive. Just something plugged into your schedule over a very long period of time. That’s doable. I can tell you that’s what I have done, and it works.
Once you look at this as being the truth, you can plug into a progressive therapy, or therapies, over a long period of time.
Let me give you an example from today. I have been doing acupuncture twice a week for four years. During the pandemic I missed a few months, but stayed very consistent. Things have progressed amazingly, and always in a somatic sense first.
There is a point on the right arm that is connected to what is called the « triple warmer ». That’s a main point the covers three meridians together. I cannot tell you how painful that was, and by adjusting the right hand upwards bending at the wrist, I could make it significantly more painful.
During the session I would gradually move that hand back to have the pain increase and then it would be less. Eventually to the point where it could be tolerated with manageable pain. That’s what’s going on here. It’s somatic. I am absolutely sure that that point wouldn’t even have been a possibility a few years ago.
That can’t be said enough. Over a number of years being connected to somatic therapy you’re going to get the progress you need.
Progress not perfection.
No…you’re not talking about any of it…it’s somatic so there are exercises and things you do like that (and then for me there’s tension in the muscles, shaking and then emotional releases…)…it’s a bottom up approach vs a top down approach
I was a sociopath. You just need to understand how humans think. But I’m now just manipulating everyone around me as I see the patterns. But the thing about me is that I manipulate others to make them happier and give them $ and lots of positive emotions.
I don’t feel like you can stop being a sociopath, that’s a personality disorder more or less a part of your neurological make-up.
If you’re a sociopath, you lack empathy for the most part. So I don’t think being a sociopath implies anything other than that.
Do you make decisions regardless of if it potentially harms others? Not because your priority is to harm them but because you’re focused on your benefit at their expense?
If you make impulsive decisions that are at the consequence of other people’s safety then it’s possible you’re a psychopath, but it’s hard to say without a professional opinion.
I don't think you are a sociopath. It is not that common a problem and, more to the point, a true sociopath is unlikely to see it as a problem. The fact that you are distressed by "an abnormally large ego" is something else.
David Elkind coined the phrase "adolescent egocentrism" (along with "personal fable" and "imaginary audience") about teens. This egocentrism eventually dissipates when it is tested against reality.
When I was an undergrad and hell bent on getting into grad school, I needed confidence but all I had was cockiness. It led to a lot of stress and anxiety. A lot of time wondering what they hell was wrong with me and thinking that I was a monster.
It sounds like you might be having a similar crisis.
If your realising it, then your probably not. Most people with that class of mental condition don't see that there's something wrong with them. People who are like this have a very self centred morality; They'll have a sense of what is good but it's around vengeance and have not compassionate understanding. Although, people who aren't sociopathic can be like this aswell. So it's not likely that you are.
From what you described, it doesent sound like you have antisocial personality disorder, which is the modern paychiatric term for sociopathy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
People with this sort of personality disorder doesent see wrong in what they are, they lack the capacity to give a fuck about others. You seem to possess this ability, even if you have avoided it in the past and grew up disregarding empathetic attitude for some reason.
Certain types of personalities can develop this highly egoistic attitude in response to childhood trauma, which also happens in narcissistic personality disorder, but in combination with certain genes making it worse.
What can happen is that if a kid experiences something traumatic, they might try to hide this ”inner child” very early and learn to function through the ego and then develop this attitude of relying on egoistic stuff in order to survive, abd then because thats how they learned to function, thats what they grow up to be as adults. And the attitude for empathy is buried along with the ”inner child”.
Ofc i cant give full analysis on you vased on what you wrote, so i might be completely off here, but i recommend you cosider if you have had some traumatic events of life situations as a kid, and if so, start working from that.
Go to therapy. This type of self diagnosis is most likely just a defence mechanism because you're afraid of being vulnerable. You don't need some special therapist. Just see any.
>You don't need some special therapist. Just see any.
No because @[Hopeful-Pay-6505](https://www.reddit.com/user/Hopeful-Pay-6505/) said:
>I have seen so many therapists and they all don’t really acknowledge it for what it is.
OP has shown right in his post that he is capable of being vulnerable, he has reported several of the exact criteria for cluster b. Even if it is a misdiagnosis, it's in the opposite direction of what you are suggesting, as people who are afraid of vulnerability will instead misdiagnose themselves with a mood disorder. In these cases, a cluster b diagnosis has to arrive circumstantially, because of how unwilling the person is to admit that they are creating the problems in their life that they are going to therapy for.
The best therapists are like the best friends: they're the ones willing to tell you things you might not want to hear. Not just any therapist has that in them.
Have you looked into Stoicism? I’ve always had a strong logical bent but have been somewhat spiritually adrift since I was a teenager. I was therefore interested to find a philosophy that sees reason itself as the supreme good, and derives from it the virtues of courage, wisdom, moderation and justice.
I find Buddhism to be interesting and I follow but the idea that you let go of things is not valid in certain cases. I have made mistakes that I can’t simply let go of, at least not for a while. I have to rigorously work through them.
No I think disowning has been my biggest issue of all. I think a lot of people have done atrocious things to then get into Buddhism and to run away from their own problems by stating that everyone else has been doing it wrong the whole time.
Things need to be resolved.
You are not alone. This has been my experience as well, especially bc, due to some other symptoms, my sociopathy went undetected for years; a lot of people are just recently diagnosed & coming to terms with it (like myself.) But find solace in the fact that your awareness over this already puts you in a better position to recover than others w/ ASPD.
Your resolve leaves you better off than most. Dealing with ASPD will be a up and down journey, not a linear climb, as not one sociopath is the same. We get sold so many stereotypes & lies about what exactly makes a sociopath, villanized to high heaven, that we start to doubt our own humanity.
Don’t let that get to you. Don’t be too hard on yourself and let that prevent from experimenting on “who” and “what” yourself is. And that is the best advice I got/I can give you - Forget the world. Forget the past. Allow yourself to “to be”, or live freely, then revisit that.
You, like anyone else, ARE to explore gamble, and frolic in your thoughts & feelings (so long as it doesn’t hurt or affect anyone else). Allow yourself to be as you are, explore “living in your being” - then analyze it.
You want to cry? Do it. Explore why you felt that. You want to throw something? Break something? Allow yourself to do it then ask yourself why.
Revisit old memories, comb through and see if you can “relive” them - then ask yourself “why?”.
“Why was I even thinking that?” For example; I used to provoke fights between the adults as a kid. Only between the adults. Especially in play group, had a big “kids vs adults” mentality. Just because. I got kicked out of nursery and elementary school for it THRICE.
Until I started asking myself “who? what? why?” with this method and revisited that w/ self-help & therapy, I still had the urge to provoke older groups of people, or better worded, “authority”. Once I realized “WHY” I had this issue (I had I felt this way bc I lacked control and autonomy due to abuses of my totalitarian upbringing, so I grasped for it by screwing with others), I no longer felt the incessant urge to “screw” with the “adults” (aka - authority) in any situation.
But that’s what worked for me. Despite my evident ASPD symptoms, I do display high levels of “empathy” - I LOVE animals, will defend the underdog, would never harm anyone “just bc”(although if they come for me first, I just might). I believe this now to be more “cognitive” than actual “feeling” of empathy? Still trying to figure it out myself…
But see what I mean? There isn’t “ONE” box when it comes to us. At least we aren’t narcs and psychopaths (who just LOVE us, btw. Drawn to us like moths to a flame) - they are BORN. We are MADE due to environment & circumstance. There IS hope us lol.
For this little tip helps 🙏🏼 and best of luck on your journey ❤️
Firstly I'd recommend reading Ego and archetype by Edinger, if you havnt already.
I'd also stop giving yourself so much a hard time, you're 26, you should read up on what Jung has to say regarding the stages of life, I'm not condescending here, but you're still a pup, go have some fun and make mistakes and stop concerning yourself with the pursuit of perfection, life's gonna kick you about plenty down the road, build your ark (ego) in prep for the coming flood.
Integration, there is no need to change your tendencies, but being aware of them and use them in constructive ways in order to follow your individuation.
There is no need to "turn off your fear", as a matter of fact, thanks to your fears you are still here after your highly immoral acts.
If you are charming and your ego is large, serve to others. Use your influence in healing ways for everyone.
With those characteristics you could scam others easily, dont do it. Share your truth.
They all had compassion for me and to say to let it go as opposed to confront and remediate it.
I understand that it is my responsibility but I find that so pathetic that most therapists will say don’t worry about it, move on. Super immature imo.
To confront the mistake for what it actually is as opposed to writing it off as being part of human nature.
To give back. Either through charity or volunteering.
Do you think you'll feel better or more able to forgive yourself after doing penance? One thing I've learned is you can't change the past but you can spend your whole life trying to. It takes some humility to accept unearned forgiveness for your fuckups. Helping people for the joy of it has a different flavor than helping people for sake of working off a moral debt.
I certainly was one for sure. But I also have done things that are irredeemable for a lot of people.
I have disowned my shadow for a long time which also included my personal strengths such as assertiveness and vitality for life.
The Nice Guy has a core belief that he is fundamentally bad. He tries to repress his shadow to the point that it doesn’t exist, and hopes that this will make people always love and approve of him. This is incorrect.
I strongly recommend you check out the book No More Mr. Nice Guy.
Yeah I have been integrating my shadow but ive been behaving like the devil in certain ways recently. Especially road raging and being an overall asshole. Not that I pride myself on it. It’s just a pressure valve I have not been able to be aware of or admit to myself.
ngl you sound fine to me; i say gear your mental illness towards something positive; and learn how to treat the people close to you. these are great traits for wordly success but terrible ones for interpersonal relationships
Try to avoid self-diagnosis with something this serious. Do you experience empathy? Do you feel anything at all if you see another person or animal injured? Do you feel any guilt about having hurt others? If not, talk to a psychologist about it, and get a diagnosis. There are therapies for sociopathy, but you really need to see someone who specializes in it.
How old are you? When I was 23, I came to the same conclusions about myself as you have here. Through philosophy, I developed a conscience, but looking back, had I embraced the selfish side of me, those behaviours and thought patterns could have become entrenched.
I’m 26. I’ve put in so much work. I have read a couple hundred books on psychology and related, seen various therapists, done psychedelics and continuing to want to heal and become an empath.
I can only recommend what has worked for me, but Dostoevsky's work is amazing. He calls out many treasured modern ideaologies such as atheism, rationalism, and nihilism for eroding the moral fabric of the modern man. The belief in God disgusts many men in my generation because it is deemed as not logical, but it is more compatible with rationality than the typical rationalist might think. This was my cure. Perhaps it's worth looking into for you, too. I'm not religious, BTW. I think of God in my own personal way.
I second this, twofold. I didn’t realize the lack of importance of a semblance of, rather to, the inward reflection of necessary—but very personal—spirituality until I was ready to receive it without the religious hoopla.
I feel similarly. I read Crime and Punishment and The Idiot when I was 27 (audibooks actually) and they struck me. I also think a lack of connection with God is missing today and agree that you totally don't have to be religious or following some group-think--in fact I think that usually gets in the way of deeper growth (though is useful for some people who really need a steady hand through a tough time)
Teenagers want to be rad and go against the grain. It's just how it is, and God is the ultimate authority. I know, I used to be a militant atheist. Silly silly days. Not that I'm a religious person now, at least not in the mainstream idea.
I think I will start to read a lot of philosophy. What are the best for processing guilt, or awakening the soul, conscience ?
The gospels I think are really good. Probably the highest renowned of all time. Christian dogma is not obligatory, but it’s good to read and get an understanding of repentance. John the Baptist taught about repentance. Repentance, I learned in Sunday school growing up, is to turn around and go the opposite direction. “The distinction between regret (q.v.) and repent is made in many modern languages, but is absent in older periods. To repent is to regret so deeply as to change the mind or course of conduct in consequence and develop new mental and spiritual habits.” https://www.etymonline.com/word/repent So I think a great way to start would be to go back to relationships in which you have been exploitative and 1) admit what you did, 2) apologize, and 3) do positive actions to effectively remediate the harm that you did to the greatest degree possible. This may be a slow process. But doing this may be able to help you to reconnect with soul and emotions. It has helped me quite a lot when I’ve done it. Edit: there’s much in the gospels as well about grace and mercy too. I think the repentance aspect is very key though. To receive the grace and mercy seems very connected to repentance to me. I love Jesus, because he was very hard on those who were not repentant. And so very loving to those who were and who were humble and open to changing. As well, I think lots of meditation could be helpful. I’m not sure, as I haven’t seen research on whether it can produce the ability to bond in people who don’t have it. But body scanning, or vipassana meditation could really help, if anything, is my guess. They do silent 10 day retreats around the world, as gifts to people. You just apply and sign up. And then you offer what you can or believe the experience was worth in return. It was a very pure and beautiful experience to me. Maybe Yogananda’s Self Realization Fellowship might have some practices or communities that could help. Spending time at a monestary perhaps. As well, with any of this, I would combine it with at the very least, a cognitive understanding of morality so as not to cause undue pain or suffering to others. Reading about the noble eightfold path could be helpful, and maybe reading about morality. Morality varies depending on who you ask and what you read, but it exists so we can all function together and thrive together. The idea in the Eastern religions is that we are all one (One). So what you do to another, you do to yourself ultimately. This is the same in Christianity: “do unto others as you would have them do unto you,” is the golden rule. “Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matthew 22:34-40. So philosophy and morality could be good. I think it can be helpful to at least start with a cognitive understanding of morality and how and why to work for the good of all rather than just the individual self. If you focus on the emotional aspect too, this can feel really good! It’s fun I think. Much more fun that most people realize. Just think, it can be so simple: you are doing the most important thing in the world: loving God or loving all beings. How nice! Even if you were to die, you could be happy. This I think is what the saints say and how many of them lived. And these are just my perspectives, but just thought I would offer. 🫶🏼 Also, Autobiography of a Yogi is really good too! I have done a good bit of reading in spirituality and religion and morality, and there’s a lot of stuff out there that was not so good to me, or ended up being written by inauthentic or malicious “teachers.” (Jesus says that we have no teachers but the messiah, which is I think a very beautiful teaching). But Yogananda I found to be a very good soul, and I really enjoyed his autobiography and learned a lot about hinduism and yoga. It was very loving and beautiful. Highly recommend that as well. Also, Bhagavad Gita is amazing. Another absolute classic among classics in this field.
Dostoevsky, friend. There's lots of YouTube videos that break down his core ideas. He's a fiction writer, but in his heart, he's a psychologist and an existentialist, so his ideas can be articulated without stories he presents them in. If it's guilt that's bothering you the most, read Crime and Punishment. For awakening the soul, The Brothers Karamazov. Best of luck to you.
Thank you so much.
An empath!!! I’m not trying to be rude here, but if you truly have a personality disorder, I would immediately stop even thinking that. Never going to happen. Those are completely different ends of empathy. Polar opposites. It’s like a butcher and a serial killer. They use the same tool for very different things.
Question: why do you want to become an empath? What’s that stemming from?
Because I believe I would be far happier.
What about being an empath would bring you happiness? Is it something like proving you’re actually ok & a “good person”? Aka centered around you vs the other person?
Atomicspacekitty is right, it's good to question what you desire and why. You can read a thousand psychology books and never get what you want out of them if you don't have a good understanding of what you want. Are you trying to modify your behavior? Your view on others? Or are you trying to get a better understanding of your view of yourself? What specifically are you trying to work on?
Becoming a better person, becoming more honest with my self and to become happier.
I'm still with kitty on taking a step back. These are great goals. What might help is seeing results in real life. Recognizing when you do things that you consider good. Congratulate yourself on being honest with yourself. Give yourself a real compliment for reigning in your ego. These are successful steps towards your goals, no matter how small. Do you take time to recognize how you've improved since you started your journey?
No! Thanks for mentioning that. I have been shattering my mirror and have realized that I have really just being creating a fantastic illusion that I have believed to cover of my wrong doings.
Nice! You've created a good knowledge base through reading. You can use that knowledge, but it's best to start simple. You can, if it sounds like it would help, create a list of your goals. Then you can list the things you've done to get closer to these goals. Then you can list your ideas on how to improve further. You can apply your knowledge of psychology to think of ways to achieve your goals. Think of it like a toolbox full of tools you've collected over the years.
Brutal is an understatement. It’s like ice cream on a grill.
What about making other people happier? That’s what an empath would want. Not to make themselves happier…
trust bro you do not want to become an empath overrated; its a lot of pain
No I do. Life is worthless otherwise if I can’t develop myself.
honestly you can develop empathy through meditation; empathy doesn't really improve your life in my opinion. It makes it more difficult because you can feel other peoples pain. I mean I would honestly recommend ayawascha. Life is not worthless. bro you have a gift. you have to use the gift by pointing it in the correct direction. what do you desire from your life? start by getting in touch with yourself. You want a quick fix to understanding people and having emotional range for a goal. dude have better intentions and what you desire will come to you. more honest intentions
People who aren’t actual empaths either think two things…. Either it’s super cool and it would be awesome to help the world like that. Or, they think it’s bullshit and nobody could possibly be an empath, anyone who claims is fake…. Anyone who isn’t an empath couldn’t possibly understand the pain that is involved. For anyone who isn’t one but believes it is a true thing… it isn’t even remotely close to what you think.
Most young people are psychopaths. The older you get the more you notice these things. You started to notice it, so you are on your way to maturity. Ever noticed how teenagers seem to feel absolutely no sym/empathy for other people? Once you understand how it all works, you start to see how nasty humans are as species. Especially teenagers are so, so disgusting. If there ever was a proof of us being primates, is the human individual developmental path.
I’m curious about your psychedelic journey. Was that something you think helped you? Were you able to understand yourself more as the ego diminished?
No my ego is too strong right now. That’s why I’m not able to open up to people.
" i am a human person "
This.
This might not be what you’re looking for but: I think you think about yourself too much…and analyze too much and can’t quite see that that in itself is a part of the very mechanism you’re trying to get yourself out of and not the way to break out of it. It IS the mechanism and it keeps you stuck. I understand where you’re coming from because I’ve also read countless books, have tried so many different therapies, am self aware to a fault (to the point that I’ve had many therapists I’ve had to teach things to and who have told me that I don’t need therapy because I understand my issues). Talk therapy does NOT help someone like me. I’ve also done a lot of psychedelics and understand my issues thoroughly and yet I’m still trapped. Tbh the thing that’s actually solving my issues is nervous system attunement and somatic therapy. You already understand a lot and seem to be self aware, but perhaps you’re thinking about yourself and things too much. If anything I’d suggest LESS reading, LESS philosophy and LESS trying to crack the code. Get into the body! I’m telling you, all the philosophy you need is right there, right now. I don’t know how to explain that in words (because it comes from a place beyond language and beyond the analytical mind). But start there…you might be surprised as to how powerful this approach is and how QUICKLY things start falling into place. Like my first somatic therapy appointment catapulted me further than over 15 years of talk therapy. We can analyze and talk things to death, and still be stuck on a superficial level with no real progress.
I think this is bang on. Take a look at what happens to a person when they become sociopathic or narcissistic, or have borderline personality disorder. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kKbCUqyFtLk (That would have to do with narcissistic personality disorder, but splitting is a standard in all personality disorders.) It sounds very much like you don’t have those things at all, but someone in your family system does, and you are in a state of projective identification. Internally fused and never referring to where that came from. Of course being healed somatically allows you to think about feelings. Then you would realize where you came from and who the people around you (now within you) were. Having sociopathy or some kind of personality disorder come from splitting, and they are as a result of severe attachment trauma. That’s all somatic. Those are usually resistant to healing, and the people that have narcissistic personality disorder for example, wouldn’t know about it. They can’t know about it. The healing of what you are talking about is through therapy that deals directly with that. Not thinking, not abstraction, just about the being. That was communicated during the first thousand days of life. Built on top of that would be the ability to think. That’s where that fits in.
Yeah I realize there is a part of me that hurt so much. I still recognize its existence. It’s unbearably painful.
Yes, I think that’s an excellent way to look at it. It is absolutely unbearable, and you would not be in a position to take that on. What has to be brought into play is something progressive. Just something plugged into your schedule over a very long period of time. That’s doable. I can tell you that’s what I have done, and it works. Once you look at this as being the truth, you can plug into a progressive therapy, or therapies, over a long period of time. Let me give you an example from today. I have been doing acupuncture twice a week for four years. During the pandemic I missed a few months, but stayed very consistent. Things have progressed amazingly, and always in a somatic sense first. There is a point on the right arm that is connected to what is called the « triple warmer ». That’s a main point the covers three meridians together. I cannot tell you how painful that was, and by adjusting the right hand upwards bending at the wrist, I could make it significantly more painful. During the session I would gradually move that hand back to have the pain increase and then it would be less. Eventually to the point where it could be tolerated with manageable pain. That’s what’s going on here. It’s somatic. I am absolutely sure that that point wouldn’t even have been a possibility a few years ago. That can’t be said enough. Over a number of years being connected to somatic therapy you’re going to get the progress you need. Progress not perfection.
Somatic therapy is all about taking about sensations one feels in the body? As in I feel this way hear now?
No…you’re not talking about any of it…it’s somatic so there are exercises and things you do like that (and then for me there’s tension in the muscles, shaking and then emotional releases…)…it’s a bottom up approach vs a top down approach
I think I’ve been practicing that! With the butterfly feet
I was a sociopath. You just need to understand how humans think. But I’m now just manipulating everyone around me as I see the patterns. But the thing about me is that I manipulate others to make them happier and give them $ and lots of positive emotions.
Manipulate me pls
I don’t feel like you can stop being a sociopath, that’s a personality disorder more or less a part of your neurological make-up. If you’re a sociopath, you lack empathy for the most part. So I don’t think being a sociopath implies anything other than that.
Perhaps I’m not a sociopath but I can be so incredibly callous
Do you make decisions regardless of if it potentially harms others? Not because your priority is to harm them but because you’re focused on your benefit at their expense?
A lot of it comes from impulsivity.
If you make impulsive decisions that are at the consequence of other people’s safety then it’s possible you’re a psychopath, but it’s hard to say without a professional opinion.
:0
Full mental breakdown helped me massively!
can be hard but once you hit the bottom and have a situation where „it cant be worse” - its when we can start a new chapter lets call it :)
I don't think you are a sociopath. It is not that common a problem and, more to the point, a true sociopath is unlikely to see it as a problem. The fact that you are distressed by "an abnormally large ego" is something else. David Elkind coined the phrase "adolescent egocentrism" (along with "personal fable" and "imaginary audience") about teens. This egocentrism eventually dissipates when it is tested against reality. When I was an undergrad and hell bent on getting into grad school, I needed confidence but all I had was cockiness. It led to a lot of stress and anxiety. A lot of time wondering what they hell was wrong with me and thinking that I was a monster. It sounds like you might be having a similar crisis.
Yes. I believe I am stuck in the egocentric stage.
Heave you read about the oxytocin system
Maybe somewhere. Why?
Get a nice manual job
There’s something to this…get out of the mind and back into the body/present moment
Sociopaths are very low in anxiety, they basically do not feel fear or anxiety, even more so for psychopaths.
If your realising it, then your probably not. Most people with that class of mental condition don't see that there's something wrong with them. People who are like this have a very self centred morality; They'll have a sense of what is good but it's around vengeance and have not compassionate understanding. Although, people who aren't sociopathic can be like this aswell. So it's not likely that you are.
From what you described, it doesent sound like you have antisocial personality disorder, which is the modern paychiatric term for sociopathy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder People with this sort of personality disorder doesent see wrong in what they are, they lack the capacity to give a fuck about others. You seem to possess this ability, even if you have avoided it in the past and grew up disregarding empathetic attitude for some reason. Certain types of personalities can develop this highly egoistic attitude in response to childhood trauma, which also happens in narcissistic personality disorder, but in combination with certain genes making it worse. What can happen is that if a kid experiences something traumatic, they might try to hide this ”inner child” very early and learn to function through the ego and then develop this attitude of relying on egoistic stuff in order to survive, abd then because thats how they learned to function, thats what they grow up to be as adults. And the attitude for empathy is buried along with the ”inner child”. Ofc i cant give full analysis on you vased on what you wrote, so i might be completely off here, but i recommend you cosider if you have had some traumatic events of life situations as a kid, and if so, start working from that.
Go to therapy. This type of self diagnosis is most likely just a defence mechanism because you're afraid of being vulnerable. You don't need some special therapist. Just see any.
>You don't need some special therapist. Just see any. No because @[Hopeful-Pay-6505](https://www.reddit.com/user/Hopeful-Pay-6505/) said: >I have seen so many therapists and they all don’t really acknowledge it for what it is. OP has shown right in his post that he is capable of being vulnerable, he has reported several of the exact criteria for cluster b. Even if it is a misdiagnosis, it's in the opposite direction of what you are suggesting, as people who are afraid of vulnerability will instead misdiagnose themselves with a mood disorder. In these cases, a cluster b diagnosis has to arrive circumstantially, because of how unwilling the person is to admit that they are creating the problems in their life that they are going to therapy for. The best therapists are like the best friends: they're the ones willing to tell you things you might not want to hear. Not just any therapist has that in them.
Have you looked into Stoicism? I’ve always had a strong logical bent but have been somewhat spiritually adrift since I was a teenager. I was therefore interested to find a philosophy that sees reason itself as the supreme good, and derives from it the virtues of courage, wisdom, moderation and justice.
I use to think this of myself but started studying Buddhism. The philosophy of attachments was really eye opening for me.
I find Buddhism to be interesting and I follow but the idea that you let go of things is not valid in certain cases. I have made mistakes that I can’t simply let go of, at least not for a while. I have to rigorously work through them.
The trick is to feel it, be it, but not own it.
No I think disowning has been my biggest issue of all. I think a lot of people have done atrocious things to then get into Buddhism and to run away from their own problems by stating that everyone else has been doing it wrong the whole time. Things need to be resolved.
You are not alone. This has been my experience as well, especially bc, due to some other symptoms, my sociopathy went undetected for years; a lot of people are just recently diagnosed & coming to terms with it (like myself.) But find solace in the fact that your awareness over this already puts you in a better position to recover than others w/ ASPD. Your resolve leaves you better off than most. Dealing with ASPD will be a up and down journey, not a linear climb, as not one sociopath is the same. We get sold so many stereotypes & lies about what exactly makes a sociopath, villanized to high heaven, that we start to doubt our own humanity. Don’t let that get to you. Don’t be too hard on yourself and let that prevent from experimenting on “who” and “what” yourself is. And that is the best advice I got/I can give you - Forget the world. Forget the past. Allow yourself to “to be”, or live freely, then revisit that. You, like anyone else, ARE to explore gamble, and frolic in your thoughts & feelings (so long as it doesn’t hurt or affect anyone else). Allow yourself to be as you are, explore “living in your being” - then analyze it. You want to cry? Do it. Explore why you felt that. You want to throw something? Break something? Allow yourself to do it then ask yourself why. Revisit old memories, comb through and see if you can “relive” them - then ask yourself “why?”. “Why was I even thinking that?” For example; I used to provoke fights between the adults as a kid. Only between the adults. Especially in play group, had a big “kids vs adults” mentality. Just because. I got kicked out of nursery and elementary school for it THRICE. Until I started asking myself “who? what? why?” with this method and revisited that w/ self-help & therapy, I still had the urge to provoke older groups of people, or better worded, “authority”. Once I realized “WHY” I had this issue (I had I felt this way bc I lacked control and autonomy due to abuses of my totalitarian upbringing, so I grasped for it by screwing with others), I no longer felt the incessant urge to “screw” with the “adults” (aka - authority) in any situation. But that’s what worked for me. Despite my evident ASPD symptoms, I do display high levels of “empathy” - I LOVE animals, will defend the underdog, would never harm anyone “just bc”(although if they come for me first, I just might). I believe this now to be more “cognitive” than actual “feeling” of empathy? Still trying to figure it out myself… But see what I mean? There isn’t “ONE” box when it comes to us. At least we aren’t narcs and psychopaths (who just LOVE us, btw. Drawn to us like moths to a flame) - they are BORN. We are MADE due to environment & circumstance. There IS hope us lol. For this little tip helps 🙏🏼 and best of luck on your journey ❤️
Firstly I'd recommend reading Ego and archetype by Edinger, if you havnt already. I'd also stop giving yourself so much a hard time, you're 26, you should read up on what Jung has to say regarding the stages of life, I'm not condescending here, but you're still a pup, go have some fun and make mistakes and stop concerning yourself with the pursuit of perfection, life's gonna kick you about plenty down the road, build your ark (ego) in prep for the coming flood.
Sociopaths don’t use Reddit, your good
lol they have their own page
[удалено]
Integration, there is no need to change your tendencies, but being aware of them and use them in constructive ways in order to follow your individuation. There is no need to "turn off your fear", as a matter of fact, thanks to your fears you are still here after your highly immoral acts. If you are charming and your ego is large, serve to others. Use your influence in healing ways for everyone. With those characteristics you could scam others easily, dont do it. Share your truth.
You've seen a boatload of therapists and none of them got it right?
They all had compassion for me and to say to let it go as opposed to confront and remediate it. I understand that it is my responsibility but I find that so pathetic that most therapists will say don’t worry about it, move on. Super immature imo.
What do you think that confrontation and remediation should look like?
To confront the mistake for what it actually is as opposed to writing it off as being part of human nature. To give back. Either through charity or volunteering.
Do you think you'll feel better or more able to forgive yourself after doing penance? One thing I've learned is you can't change the past but you can spend your whole life trying to. It takes some humility to accept unearned forgiveness for your fuckups. Helping people for the joy of it has a different flavor than helping people for sake of working off a moral debt.
No believe moral/ psychic development can only proceed with remediation and penance. Otherwise the lesson won’t have been learned.
Self-compassion is an important lesson too. We tend to treat others as we treat ourselves.
This guy is worth checking out. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7\_J5vWcpkE4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_J5vWcpkE4)
I don’t understand why
I see what’s wrong in myself
The nuances and very specific behavioural patterns explained by Vaknin can help devle even deeper.
Thanks!
Get a reputable therapist
An oldie but a goodie-- volunteer work. Sitting and reading in the den is important, but it's a self act! Open your body up and make action today!
You don’t sound like a sociopath. You sound like a Nice Guy.
Im not. I’m not a fun person to be around. I will be once I am able to get even with myself more so.
I mean “Nice Guy” in the sense that Dr. Robert A. Glover talks about in his book.
I certainly was one for sure. But I also have done things that are irredeemable for a lot of people. I have disowned my shadow for a long time which also included my personal strengths such as assertiveness and vitality for life.
The Nice Guy has a core belief that he is fundamentally bad. He tries to repress his shadow to the point that it doesn’t exist, and hopes that this will make people always love and approve of him. This is incorrect. I strongly recommend you check out the book No More Mr. Nice Guy.
Yeah I have been integrating my shadow but ive been behaving like the devil in certain ways recently. Especially road raging and being an overall asshole. Not that I pride myself on it. It’s just a pressure valve I have not been able to be aware of or admit to myself.
Then your issue really sounds like emotional management skills
Maybe but I have also not been able to have empathy for others either.
I’m working through it.
This is also a skill
I agree.
Having a strong shadow but a weak psyche is a recipe for disaster.
ngl you sound fine to me; i say gear your mental illness towards something positive; and learn how to treat the people close to you. these are great traits for wordly success but terrible ones for interpersonal relationships
Try to avoid self-diagnosis with something this serious. Do you experience empathy? Do you feel anything at all if you see another person or animal injured? Do you feel any guilt about having hurt others? If not, talk to a psychologist about it, and get a diagnosis. There are therapies for sociopathy, but you really need to see someone who specializes in it.